1 00:00:04,519 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,760 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:12,799 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 4 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:16,599 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,360 Speaker 1: finding ways to optimize my work day. This episode is 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,160 Speaker 1: another my favorite Tip episode. The title is probably pretty 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from each of 8 00:00:26,960 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 1: the interviews I conduct. I use this format because I 9 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: sometimes feel myself as a podcast listener that I just 10 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: want to get in, get the most amount of value 11 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 1: from an episode and then get out, So in this format, 12 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: that's exactly what I do. My guest today is Mia Friedman. 13 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,519 Speaker 1: Meir is the co founder and creative director of the 14 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: mum A mea women's network, Australia's largest digital women's media company. 15 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: They reach four million women per month and also have 16 00:00:54,960 --> 00:00:58,520 Speaker 1: the world's largest women's podcast network with eight shows that 17 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: reach millions of women. As many Australian listeners would know, 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Mia was the youngest editor of Australian Cosmo at twenty 19 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: four years of age back in the mid nineties, and 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,319 Speaker 1: because I was one of many loyal Cosmo readers as 21 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 1: a teenager, I feel like I grew up with Mia, 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:16,000 Speaker 1: and I've also lapped up all of her books, and 23 00:01:16,040 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: I just love how she speaks so honestly and is 24 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: kind of speaks in such a raw way about her life. 25 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 1: So this clip today starts after I was asking Mia 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 1: what it looks like when she sits down to start 27 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: a writing project, and we get into talking about how 28 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:35,240 Speaker 1: she overcomes procrastination, particularly when it comes to her writing. 29 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,200 Speaker 1: So on that note over to Miya, So. 30 00:01:38,440 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 2: What it looks like at first is downloading a lot 31 00:01:40,480 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 2: of productivity apps. Then there's making sure you've got everything 32 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,240 Speaker 2: backed up, Then there's buying a lot of post it notes. 33 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: Then so basically, I did what I always do and 34 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 2: a lot of people who are procrastinators do, which is 35 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: convince yourself that doing all of that staff is the 36 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 2: same as actually writing the book. But actually it's just 37 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: delaying the writing of the book. So I love writing, 38 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: but I hate starting. I love all the projects that 39 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: I do, but I don't like starting many of them. 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,440 Speaker 2: I don't even like starting podcast interviews very much. My 41 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: favorite part is when I'm a little bit as an interviewer, 42 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:21,720 Speaker 2: when I'm a little bit through it, like about fifteen 43 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: minutes in and I'm like, okay, good right, we're there. 44 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:29,920 Speaker 2: I find starting things very, very difficult, So how do 45 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: you do that? 46 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 1: Do you remember how you did end up starting work? Strife? Balance? 47 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think. And the advice that I always give 48 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 2: writers and anyone creative is that you just got to 49 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,160 Speaker 2: do the thing. Like downloading the apps is not doing 50 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 2: the thing. You know, setting up a vision board and 51 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,560 Speaker 2: setting up your desk or your workspace, that's not doing 52 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 2: the thing. Now for creative hiple and for writers, that 53 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,840 Speaker 2: is an important part of it because it gives you 54 00:02:56,840 --> 00:02:59,400 Speaker 2: thinking time. My friend Caroline Overington, who's a journalist and 55 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 2: an author, and she's written I don't know, fifteen books 56 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,359 Speaker 2: while having at least one or two day jobs. As 57 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:10,480 Speaker 2: a journalist, she has a Monday and she writes every Monday, 58 00:03:10,520 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: and she starts in the morning, and she used to 59 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: start when her kids go to school, and she used 60 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 2: to finish when they would come home from school. And 61 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: she was very disciplined about it, but she was always 62 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 2: just like, you just got to do the thing, and 63 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 2: you can't be precious. You've got to not let perfectionism 64 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 2: be the enemy of done. And I always also say 65 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: to writers, put some words on a page. Put some 66 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: words on a page. But back to Caroline, she would 67 00:03:39,840 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 2: say that unstacking the dishwasher for a writer is an 68 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: important part of writing because it's when we have so 69 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 2: little time to think anymore, because every little gap that 70 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 2: we used to have to think we now fill with 71 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 2: our phones and distraction. So sometimes doing menial things, whether 72 00:03:57,400 --> 00:03:59,600 Speaker 2: it's buying the post it notes or unstacking the dishrusher 73 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,400 Speaker 2: aspect of procrastination to that, But there's also an aspect 74 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: of thinking time that's really really important, so that when 75 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: you do come down to actually doing the writing, you've 76 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: already done some of the thinking. And I think that 77 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 2: in our modern lifestyles we've lost that ability. But I'm 78 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 2: always very much of a view that you can edit 79 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,960 Speaker 2: words on a page, but you can't edit nothing. So 80 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 2: just vomit onto a page. Just vomit onto the page. 81 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: And Elizabeth Gilbert, who is a wonderful writer and author, 82 00:04:31,120 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 2: she says that the way she describes it is that 83 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 2: you have to just accept that it's not going to 84 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:43,560 Speaker 2: be perfect, and you've got to you know, it's a 85 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 2: lovely time when you're just imagining the perfect book you're 86 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 2: going to write. Then you've actually got to write the 87 00:04:47,839 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: book and it's never going to be as good as 88 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 2: you imagine that it's going to be, and you've got 89 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: to be okay with that. 90 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: That's interesting. What with the with the getting the word 91 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 1: vomit onto the screen? 92 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:57,560 Speaker 2: Like? 93 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,040 Speaker 1: What does that look like? Do you lock yourself away 94 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: and go, okay, I'm here for an hour, I'm going 95 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,159 Speaker 1: to crank out this many words like you, like, do 96 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:07,600 Speaker 1: you have a goal in mind? How do you get 97 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,360 Speaker 1: rid of all the digital distractions? What does that look like? 98 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:11,840 Speaker 2: I wish I could say I did. I think that 99 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:15,160 Speaker 2: sometimes I have to sneak up on myself to write. 100 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 2: So I think that by going, oh, I've only got 101 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 2: fifteen minutes before I have to be at work or 102 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:26,919 Speaker 2: go out to dinner or whatever it is, and you 103 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 2: just go, I'll just quickly write it and then it 104 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 2: doesn't feel so daunting. I think that a big mistake 105 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,440 Speaker 2: that people make is going, I'm going to write every 106 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 2: day for eight hours. You know, Elizabeth Gilbert says you 107 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,160 Speaker 2: shouldn't be writing for more than a couple of hours 108 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: every day. Now. Some people don't have that luxury. Like 109 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 2: my friend Caroline, she had a day a week to 110 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 2: write and she had to write in that day, and 111 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 2: sometimes it would be a good day and sometimes it 112 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:51,000 Speaker 2: would be not a good day. But that's all she had. 113 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 2: So it's creativity is what you want to what you 114 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 2: want to say in the time you have to say it. 115 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: And that's crucial because had I had more time, I 116 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,719 Speaker 2: could have written a better book. But I didn't have 117 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 2: more time. That was the time that I had. And 118 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,080 Speaker 2: I think that one of the hardest things about writing 119 00:06:10,080 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 2: a book is long deadlines. For me, I'm very bad 120 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 2: with long deadlines. I'm better with shorter deadlines. And I'm 121 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 2: working on a new project at the moment at Mum 122 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:20,479 Speaker 2: and Me I called Lady Startup, where I'm putting together 123 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 2: courses for women who either are running their own businesses 124 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,559 Speaker 2: or want to be running their own businesses. And because 125 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: I've only got a self imposed deadline, I don't have 126 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,799 Speaker 2: an external deadline of a publisher or a newspaper deadline 127 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 2: or anything like that, it's on me. So I'm finding 128 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:41,479 Speaker 2: that really hard to motivate myself to get to get 129 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:41,839 Speaker 2: it done. 130 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 1: Hello, there it's me again. So I found this part 131 00:06:45,839 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 1: of my chat with me is so refreshing. I personally 132 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: feel really encouraged to know that even writing powerhouses like 133 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,440 Speaker 1: me a struggle with actually sitting down to write, as 134 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 1: simple as that might sound. But the tip I love 135 00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:03,360 Speaker 1: most from this chat was about how Mia talks about 136 00:07:03,400 --> 00:07:06,040 Speaker 1: sneaking up on herself to write and breaks writing down 137 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:09,000 Speaker 1: into smaller goals or increments. I know that for me, 138 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: when I'm on a deadline to write an article, for example, 139 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 1: I will sometimes find myself tricking myself into starting by saying, Okay, 140 00:07:18,520 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 1: I'm just going to write an outline, and I might 141 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: even end up writing the outline in long form or pros. 142 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: But by setting myself with the expectation that's just an 143 00:07:27,760 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 1: outline and the words don't need to be perfects, I 144 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 1: find my version of tricking myself into starting rather than 145 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: staring at a blank computer screen. So that is it 146 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: for today. If you like this excerpt, you might want 147 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: to listen to my full chat with me, which I'll 148 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:45,120 Speaker 1: link to in the show notes. And if you're enjoying 149 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: how I work, I'd love it if you could take 150 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: five seconds, maybe right now, to leave a review in 151 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts from. Every 152 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:57,440 Speaker 1: single review that is left is read by me and 153 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 1: brings a huge mile to my face. And awesome getting 154 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 1: feedback from listeners like yourself. So that suit for today 155 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:05,280 Speaker 1: and I'll see you next time.