1 00:00:05,280 --> 00:00:07,960 Speaker 1: This week on the podcast, I sat down and chatted 2 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:11,240 Speaker 1: with the incredible Sarah's Styles, who's the director for the 3 00:00:11,240 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Office for Women in Sport and Recreation. She's based in Victoria. 4 00:00:14,840 --> 00:00:18,240 Speaker 1: Sarah has an incredibly extensive career in the sporting industry. 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: But they've just released this amazing research which is titled 6 00:00:22,000 --> 00:00:26,320 Speaker 1: the Conversation of Sport Representation of Women in Sports News Coverage. 7 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: So they looked at the coverage of women's sport compared 8 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: to men's sport in the years the financial year between 9 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two to twenty twenty three. Some of the 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: findings are pretty confronting, but it was incredible to have 11 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: the chance to sit down with Sarah and hear more 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:47,159 Speaker 1: about this research. Sarah, thank you so much for joining us. 13 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,640 Speaker 1: When you first reached out to me about this research, 14 00:00:49,720 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: I got excited because at the Female Athlete Project, we 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: love data, we love stats, and we often see research 16 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 1: like this potentially in countries overseas. 17 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,600 Speaker 2: But it's so that it's been done here on Australian soil. 18 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little bit more about this 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:07,440 Speaker 1: research and why it's so important. 20 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 3: ChIL think great to be here, Chloe, so for us 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:14,039 Speaker 3: We've just released something called The Conversation of Sport, and 22 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 3: what this is outlining is the current state of coverage 23 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:20,919 Speaker 3: of women in sports news, so you know, TV news, 24 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 3: print newspapers, radio news. The reason that we've done this 25 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 3: is we know women have been underrepresented in sports media 26 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 3: and the impact of that is vast. You know, we 27 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,399 Speaker 3: think about it in terms of elite athletes. This is 28 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:41,880 Speaker 3: fundamentally limiting the ability to professionalize women's elite sport, you know, 29 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 3: attracting sponsors, building a fan base that ultimately is getting 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 3: you those broadcast deals. This is fundamentally connected to that, 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 3: but it's also about the impact it's having on community sport. 32 00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:55,080 Speaker 3: The way I think about this is there's so much 33 00:01:55,120 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 3: fantastic work happening in community sport to create opportunities for 34 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 3: women and girls, and then there is this megaphone that 35 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 3: is working against them, this megaphone that's effectively shouting, actually, 36 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,359 Speaker 3: men's sports what's most important. Actually men are more important, 37 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 3: and it's undermining all the great work. So ultimately, from 38 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 3: our perspective, until we see progress here, we're not actually 39 00:02:16,240 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 3: going to achieve gender quality in sport. 40 00:02:18,280 --> 00:02:20,960 Speaker 1: And when we first saw the Female Arthlete Project, there 41 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 1: was a start that we would talk about a lot 42 00:02:22,840 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: this idea of women making up forty percent of participants 43 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:28,919 Speaker 1: in sport yet only receiving four percent of the media coverage. 44 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:31,520 Speaker 1: And I touched on some of this global research, but 45 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: that number has shifted and you found a similar number 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 1: with your research. 47 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 3: Yes, So at a headline level, what our research found 48 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:44,320 Speaker 3: was fifteen percent of sports news was focused on women's sport. 49 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,679 Speaker 3: So this was in the twenty two to twenty three 50 00:02:46,760 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 3: financial years. So deliberately, in the twelve months leading up 51 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: to the fee for Women's World Cup, we wanted to 52 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:54,679 Speaker 3: establish what is the baseline of where we're at. Particularly 53 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 3: this is for particularly media available in Victoria. So for 54 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:03,200 Speaker 3: us having that benchmark before we've had this phenomenal global event, 55 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 3: because let's be honest, it caught a lot of people 56 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,120 Speaker 3: by surprise. By helping it was, it didn't catch us 57 00:03:07,120 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 3: by surprise. We knew what was coming. So to establish 58 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,399 Speaker 3: this to be able to say, well, this is where 59 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 3: we were, and then the subsequent release that when we're ready, 60 00:03:15,480 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 3: we'll be able to talk about what was the impact 61 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:21,120 Speaker 3: of that tournament. So fifteen percent, you know, and if 62 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,399 Speaker 3: we have to think about this there is a there's 63 00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,880 Speaker 3: a piece that's about nine years prior by the Australian 64 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 3: Sports Commission that found coverage of women in sports media 65 00:03:28,880 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 3: at that point was six percent, so effectively over nine years, 66 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 3: roughly one percent a year growth. So if nothing was 67 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 3: to change, and you know, you mentioned that sort of 68 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 3: forty percent of participants, that would put us in twenty 69 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 3: forty eight when we actually achieved that forty percent coverage, 70 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:49,400 Speaker 3: you know, and that forty percent is what we start 71 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 3: to talk about has been gender balanced. So twenty forty 72 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 3: eight and I don't know about you, I am not 73 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,400 Speaker 3: that patient. I want to see that far sooner. So 74 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 3: you know, when we think about what the research showed 75 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 3: in that top twenty sports by coverage, only four of 76 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,839 Speaker 3: those top twenty actually had what we're describing as at 77 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:15,040 Speaker 3: least gender bounds coverage being netble, hockey, athletics and swimming. 78 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 3: That was it. 79 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. Wow. 80 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 1: And when we look at the type of coverage, what 81 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 1: were the findings around the way that women's sport was 82 00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 1: spoken about from a more superficial level in comparison to 83 00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:29,920 Speaker 1: men's sport. 84 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:33,480 Speaker 3: That was what came through and on one hand, disappointing, 85 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 3: On the other hand, kind of makes sense. Bear with 86 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:38,719 Speaker 3: me there. I'm not saying it's justified, but kind of 87 00:04:38,720 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 3: makes sense. So if there is ultimately one bit of 88 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:45,920 Speaker 3: sports news being created on women's sport for every five 89 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,799 Speaker 3: point four pieces that are being created on men's sport, 90 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 3: it doesn't come as a surprise that that means men's 91 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 3: sport is able to be covered in more depth. So 92 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: what the research found is exactly that women's sport was 93 00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: more likely to be covered superficially here's the thing that happened, 94 00:05:02,040 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 3: whereas men's sport are getting the benefit of here's the 95 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 3: thing that happened, and here's what happened before and after 96 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 3: and just generally around it. 97 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 1: And what about the way that male athletes can speak 98 00:05:14,400 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: about different issues or kind of covered as a whole 99 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:20,520 Speaker 1: athlete and what they're doing off the field, off the 100 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: pitch or whatever surface they're participating. 101 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, pool, all the surfaces. Yeah, that was a bit 102 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 3: of surprise, wasn't it, Because I mean, sometimes there is 103 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:34,640 Speaker 3: that sense that women are you know, it's almost that 104 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: slightly condescending, you know, you're so lucky to be here, 105 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:41,279 Speaker 3: and so sometimes that courage can feel like it's more 106 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,679 Speaker 3: around that but what the data instead said is again 107 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,120 Speaker 3: it's that relativity bit that because women are simply getting 108 00:05:47,440 --> 00:05:51,960 Speaker 3: less airtime, then actually there is less of a chance 109 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,800 Speaker 3: to be talking about that as much. So something that 110 00:05:54,839 --> 00:05:56,800 Speaker 3: was a surprise to us, and I should have said 111 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 3: at the outset. This work was done by Iicenture, so 112 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:03,680 Speaker 3: a globe media monitoring organization. One of the things that 113 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 3: they flagged to us was men were even being given 114 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,039 Speaker 3: the opportunity to male athletes. Sorry, this is we're being 115 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:12,839 Speaker 3: given the opportunity to even talk about pay equality. 116 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 2: Will wow. 117 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 3: So you know, it really does suggest when we're talking 118 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 3: about sports news, and this is in a traditional sense, 119 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 3: we're talking you know, print media, the online versions of 120 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,920 Speaker 3: a lot of those papers, TV news, radio news. You know, 121 00:06:27,760 --> 00:06:30,599 Speaker 3: it really does say how women's voices are able to 122 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 3: get through there is limited and it also goes to 123 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 3: the importance of new media podcasts like this alternative site 124 00:06:37,120 --> 00:06:40,800 Speaker 3: that are getting those women's stories through. That's how at 125 00:06:40,839 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 3: the moment that depth is coming through. But with all 126 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:45,840 Speaker 3: of this work, you know, what are we hoping for 127 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 3: at the office. You know, we can't change the past. 128 00:06:49,480 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 3: But at the same time, when we've got this clear 129 00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:53,120 Speaker 3: sense of where it is, we can all try and 130 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,919 Speaker 3: do better tomorrow. So when we're armed with that information, 131 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 3: when we're working with the sports editors and we're working 132 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 3: with the strategy leads at the different media companies who've 133 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 3: been actually incredibly receptive to this work, I should say 134 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:07,760 Speaker 3: they can take that on board and kind of think, Okay, well, 135 00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 3: what might be a conscious decision that they can make 136 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 3: for tomorrow that changes that and we'll see that coming 137 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:14,960 Speaker 3: through in future data. 138 00:07:15,040 --> 00:07:17,760 Speaker 1: And so you've touched on this idea of with the 139 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: male athletes having a higher volume of coverage compared to 140 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:24,480 Speaker 1: the women, that that can kind of lead to I 141 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 1: guess differences in the level of information that's portrayed about 142 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 1: the athletes. Do you think that's the main contributing factor, 143 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: just the volume, or are there other factors that you've 144 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: found that lead to that level of coverage. 145 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 3: What's a bit of chicken and egg, isn't it? I 146 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: think that's what really comes to mind here. You know, 147 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 3: it is that depth of coverage that allows people to 148 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: build a connection because you know, you might see the 149 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:57,200 Speaker 3: most perfect bit of sports media that it's almost been 150 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 3: created exactly for you, that you find so interesting and 151 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 3: then you're like, oh, this is so like that team 152 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 3: or that athlete. I want to know more. If you're 153 00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 3: not seeing anything about them for another year, you know 154 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 3: you've forgotten about that. So the ability to build connection, 155 00:08:11,640 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 3: it's the style of coverage, but it's also the ability 156 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 3: to tap into that regularly. 157 00:08:17,400 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: You know. 158 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 3: I think about when I started to have the chance 159 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 3: to do this work, which is coming on ten years now. 160 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 3: I had the great fortune of starting to do some 161 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: of this working cricket and the main thing that we 162 00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 3: were working on at that point was applying a fan 163 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:35,920 Speaker 3: friendly lens in a way that hadn't actually been done before. 164 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:38,319 Speaker 3: You know, that was a world championship team already when 165 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 3: I arrived there. It wasn't about building a high performing, 166 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,000 Speaker 3: a high performance pathway like some of the other sports 167 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:46,480 Speaker 3: were in. Instead, it was simply that no one knew 168 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 3: who they were. In fact, ten years ago two and 169 00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,040 Speaker 3: three Australians had never heard of Australian women's cricket team 170 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 3: that was eighty years old. So the ability to actually 171 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 3: connect the team with a potential fan base. How did 172 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:01,040 Speaker 3: we do that at the time through social media? Because 173 00:09:01,080 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 3: actually that was removing you're effectively going around the gatekeepers. 174 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 3: Now social media has changed for better and worse over 175 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,640 Speaker 3: the last ten years. This work is then around, okay, well, 176 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 3: rather than is having to always go around the gatekeepers 177 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,679 Speaker 3: and find those alternative pathways. You know, it's actually going 178 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:20,240 Speaker 3: back to the core of how is the wider community 179 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 3: caring about sport, seeing sport, having their perceptions shaped about sport. 180 00:09:26,240 --> 00:09:30,080 Speaker 3: Because this isn't actually not just about sport. You know, 181 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 3: there was some research a couple of years ago that 182 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 3: wasn't from us, from Women's Leadership Institute Australia that confirmed 183 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 3: that there is more media coverage of sport than any 184 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 3: other sector in the country. Any putting politics, everything, sport 185 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 3: is the topic spoken about most. So if we think 186 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 3: about then that enormous voice again kind of the idea 187 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 3: of the megaphone, just again sending down that message of 188 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,680 Speaker 3: men are more important, Men are more important, Men are 189 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 3: who we listen to. Ultimately, this is shaping how who 190 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,320 Speaker 3: we see as heroes, who we put up as leaders, 191 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:11,240 Speaker 3: you know, who we celebrate that has reaped far reaching 192 00:10:11,280 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 3: benefits far beyond sport. This is shaping who we use 193 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 3: a country are looking up to, and how we see 194 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:22,239 Speaker 3: ourselves and how our kids see themselves. 195 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, wow, it's really quite It's really quite interesting when 196 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: because I know for me as a sport lover that 197 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:30,440 Speaker 1: my life is surrounded by sport and a lot of 198 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: people who. 199 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:33,120 Speaker 2: Love sport and consume sport. Ali like that. But it's 200 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 2: really interesting. 201 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:35,679 Speaker 1: Just touching on that data about the fact that it 202 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: does have the most coverage in our country. 203 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 2: Like it's just it's so powerful, isn't it. 204 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:43,560 Speaker 3: And that's what I mean. Australia is not unique in 205 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:47,240 Speaker 3: its love of sport, but one of the ways I 206 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:49,440 Speaker 3: say it is loved or hated. There is nothing that 207 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 3: can shift the mood of Australia like sport can. There's 208 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 3: nothing that comes close to it, I would say, because 209 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,760 Speaker 3: of the variety of interest everybody has. So that's why 210 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,960 Speaker 3: this is, this is so fundamentally important to me. And 211 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 3: even the Inquiry into Women and Girls in Sports and 212 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 3: Active Recreation that led to the creation of the office, 213 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 3: because the office is actually still the only office of 214 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 3: its kind in the country. One of the nine recommendations 215 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: in that inquiry was specifically on this for that reason, 216 00:11:18,440 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 3: you know, increasing the profile of women in sports media. 217 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:23,840 Speaker 3: You know, there's as I said before, there's so much 218 00:11:23,920 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 3: good work that goes on, but we've got to make 219 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:29,680 Speaker 3: sure that we're not just wallpapering oak cracks. You know, 220 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 3: we have to fix the cracks. We have to get 221 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:37,000 Speaker 3: to what are the structural drivers of the inequality that 222 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 3: still remains, and this is an example of that. You know, 223 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:43,880 Speaker 3: another slightly cheesy analogy I've had in my head as 224 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 3: we've been doing this work is like one of a 225 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:48,640 Speaker 3: leaking roof. So you've got, you know, a leaking roof, 226 00:11:48,679 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 3: there's a puddle that's there, there's work going on, great 227 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,800 Speaker 3: work going on to clean up the puddle. If we 228 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 3: don't fundamentally fix the roof, we're going to be cleaning 229 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:57,680 Speaker 3: up that puddle forever in a day. 230 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that. I'm always here for it. 231 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:04,960 Speaker 1: Now, you've touched on this idea of women in media 232 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 1: and women in broadcast, which change our game. There's an 233 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,320 Speaker 1: incredible program set up to support the development and pathway 234 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: and opportunities for women in that space. But what did 235 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,400 Speaker 1: you find with the key stats of the research around 236 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: coverage by women versus men in terms of journalists? 237 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,520 Speaker 3: You know, this was an interesting one and probably not 238 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 3: a surprise, let's be honest, but again, it's how do 239 00:12:25,760 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 3: we get the data so we can try and do 240 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 3: better tomorrow. So, as you say, supporting women who are 241 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 3: looking at or interested in careers in sports media has 242 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 3: been a long focus for the office. What the research 243 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 3: found was women have been or were through the sample period, 244 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: were given the opportunity to do to only contribute twenty 245 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,719 Speaker 3: seven percent of bylines. So when we say bylines, that's 246 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 3: effectively knowing who produced a piece of media, so they 247 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 3: were the person who wrote it, or they were the 248 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 3: presenter on TV. So only about one in four pieces 249 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 3: of media was actually created a female journalists. And yet 250 00:13:02,840 --> 00:13:06,760 Speaker 3: women were sixty two percent more likely to actually write 251 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:10,240 Speaker 3: about women's sport than their male colleagues. So when we 252 00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 3: actually break apart that there's a significant difference, that then 253 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 3: is being heavily skewed by the fact there's a far 254 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 3: more opportunities for male journalists. So you know, for us, 255 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 3: we're going to be continuing to do the work to 256 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: support people who are interested in a career in that space. 257 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,320 Speaker 3: But we've also got to think it's not just simply 258 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 3: about saying here are more women who are interested in 259 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: this sector. It's also about understanding how can the sector 260 00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:39,520 Speaker 3: itself being an environment, be an environment where women can 261 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:42,240 Speaker 3: be successful, where they can thrive, that they're not all 262 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 3: leaving after a couple of years we've burnout and negative experiences. 263 00:13:46,480 --> 00:13:50,040 Speaker 3: So that's why we've also funded some research through Deacon University, 264 00:13:51,040 --> 00:13:53,760 Speaker 3: and Deacon will be actually looking into what are the 265 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:58,400 Speaker 3: factors that actually allow that positive experience to be happening, 266 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 3: What are the enabling factors of career success. 267 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:05,720 Speaker 2: Was there anything in the research that surprised you, Yeah, there's. 268 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 3: A bit, you know, some things didn't you know, we 269 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 3: thought that regional media would outform metropolitan national media, and 270 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,680 Speaker 3: that that was true. Still underrepresented women are, but that 271 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,720 Speaker 3: was what we expected. I think if there was something 272 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 3: that surprised me, it was seeing that print media actually 273 00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:32,239 Speaker 3: out formed online. So, you know, I think we assumed 274 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 3: that when you've got online news sites and they're not 275 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 3: limited by column inches, that would create the opportunity to 276 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 3: be able to talk about women's sport more, whereas it 277 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 3: was actually the opposite. When there is unlimited space, that 278 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,640 Speaker 3: means there is unlimited space to write more about men's sport. 279 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 3: So that was a surprise. So effectively, since that last 280 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:57,120 Speaker 3: data point in twenty fourteen from the Sports Commission. Yeah, 281 00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:02,200 Speaker 3: print news has has kicked on the strongest. Conversely, TV 282 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 3: has shifted far less because TV was also including that bit. 283 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 3: So TV's effectively shifted from six percent to twelve percent. 284 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,400 Speaker 3: Print has shifted from six to twenty percent. Oh okay, 285 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 3: But I think if, yeah, if there was something that 286 00:15:15,760 --> 00:15:20,080 Speaker 3: surprised me print media Actually what makes it into the 287 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 3: physical newspaper being a stronger outcome for women's sport than online? 288 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 3: When you know, again, I suppose it goes back to 289 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,640 Speaker 3: what's being covered, what's making the newspapers. Here's the thing 290 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,160 Speaker 3: that happened online, here's the thing that happened, and here's 291 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 3: everything else around it, and women aren't getting that. He's 292 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 3: everything around it to the same extent. 293 00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:42,240 Speaker 2: What are the next steps from here? 294 00:15:42,240 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: You talked about the fact that it would take until 295 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,200 Speaker 1: twenty forty eight, which is a little bit daunting, and 296 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: sometimes you hear numbers like that and it feels pretty flattening. 297 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,920 Speaker 1: What are the next steps to actually create further change 298 00:15:54,920 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: at a faster pace. 299 00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,120 Speaker 3: So what the report contains is some recommendation, recommendations from 300 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 3: the office. So from our perspective, what are they it's 301 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:08,080 Speaker 3: not an exhaustive list. There's there's almost an infinite number 302 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 3: of things that could be done to drive change here. 303 00:16:10,440 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 3: But for us, if we're up on the balcony saying, nero, 304 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:14,600 Speaker 3: what are some things that can be put in place 305 00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 3: around sort of strategy, around culture, around the workforce, around 306 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 3: sources to drive change? We have made some recommendations there, 307 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 3: and these aren't necessarily earth shattering. You know, we talk 308 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:29,320 Speaker 3: about it from the perspective of media companies as well 309 00:16:29,360 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 3: as sporting organizations as well as then at an individual level. 310 00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 3: So from a media company's perspective, it's something simple as 311 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 3: have a women's sports strategy, because you know, without one, 312 00:16:39,080 --> 00:16:41,400 Speaker 3: then you're just kind of seeing where things land because 313 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 3: you actually don't have a plan, you know. Breaking that 314 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 3: down to the individual level, it's like, well, how can 315 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,000 Speaker 3: you actually have targets that you're working towards. So again 316 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: it's that sense if we can't change the past, but 317 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 3: it is what can we do that just does that 318 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 3: a little bit better tomorrow. Sometimes I think about, you know, 319 00:16:57,240 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 3: in a sport term, the idea of one percenters and 320 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,800 Speaker 3: the one percent is build up. You know, what are 321 00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:04,440 Speaker 3: the one percentage that can be done here because ultimately 322 00:17:04,440 --> 00:17:06,040 Speaker 3: we're going to see them build and that's how we're 323 00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:08,440 Speaker 3: going to start to see change. You know, I also 324 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 3: think from the sporting organization's perspective, how can they help 325 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 3: drive change? You know, how can they be responsive when 326 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:19,120 Speaker 3: there are media inquiries that come in around their women's athletes. 327 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 3: How can they actually be conscious around well, who are 328 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,160 Speaker 3: the journalists that they're actually supporting? You know, if they're 329 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 3: actually only providing access to their CEO or their head 330 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:32,160 Speaker 3: coach or something like that to male journalists, they're contributing 331 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 3: to this issue. Or if you've got a head coach 332 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 3: who's thinking that no one's getting near my athletes, we're focused. 333 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 3: That's fine, that's their choice that they've going to realize 334 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,160 Speaker 3: that has wider implications. So there are very real things 335 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:48,080 Speaker 3: that can be done. And what's been really pleasing from 336 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 3: our perspective is when we've been talking about these recommendations 337 00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 3: and shaping them up from our perspective again, they've been 338 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:58,719 Speaker 3: well received by media organizations and they've been well received 339 00:17:58,760 --> 00:18:01,959 Speaker 3: by sporting organizations as well that we've spoken to. So 340 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 3: the big question is when we're doing this again, you know, 341 00:18:05,960 --> 00:18:08,600 Speaker 3: when we're capturing that answer for twenty twenty three, which 342 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: you will include that FIFA Women's World Cup in twenty 343 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 3: twenty four, the first half of have we shifted the Dial? 344 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 3: Because when this work got done in New Zealand, there's 345 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 3: been some great work in this space done in New 346 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 3: Zealand over the last three to four years. Yeah, you 347 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:23,840 Speaker 3: really did start to see that conscious effort kick in. 348 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 349 00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:27,120 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Thank you so much for your time today, Sarah. 350 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: It's been great to hear just your huge level of 351 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:32,840 Speaker 1: experience and expertise in this area, but to hear. 352 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 2: More about the incredible work that's been done. So thank 353 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 2: you so much. 354 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,080 Speaker 3: No worries it all. Thank you for all you're doing. 355 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 2: Cheers, Thanks so much for listening. 356 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,359 Speaker 1: If you got something out of this episode, I would 357 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:44,480 Speaker 1: absolutely love it if you could send it on to 358 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: one person who you think might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, 359 00:18:48,680 --> 00:18:50,679 Speaker 1: give us a review, and make sure you follow us 360 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:53,520 Speaker 1: on Instagram at the Female Athlete Project to stay up 361 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:56,719 Speaker 1: to date with podcast episodes, merch drops, and of course 362 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,840 Speaker 1: news and stories about epic female athletes.