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Speaker 1: Good morning everybody. Welcome to the Daily Ods. My name

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Speaker 1: is Sam Kozlowski. Happy Thursday, the seventeenth of February, joined

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Speaker 1: by Zara Seidler, the co founder of the Dally Ods,

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Speaker 1: to take you through the day's news. Zara and I

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Speaker 1: are going to chat through the Prince Andrews Settlement. It

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Speaker 1: gets a bit confusing legally, but we're going to take

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Speaker 1: you through it. But first, Sarah, we had some big

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Speaker 1: news from the United States. What happened?

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Speaker 2: We found out yesterday that gun manufacturer Remington Arms has

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Speaker 2: been held liable and ordered to pay over one hundred

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Speaker 2: million dollars in compensation to the families of nine victims

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Speaker 2: of the Sandy Hook massacre. This is the first time

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Speaker 2: a gunmaker has been held liable from mass shooting in

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Speaker 2: the United States.

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Speaker 1: Some further information has come out about the fifteen year

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Speaker 1: old Russian figure skater Camilla Valieva, who was part of

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Speaker 1: an ongoing Olympic doping case. Valievi's urine sample has tested

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Speaker 1: positive for three substances used to treat heart conditions, with

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Speaker 1: only one of the substance is being banned by the

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Speaker 1: global antidoping officials. The other two are actually permitted to

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Speaker 1: be used. This all comes after the Court of Arbitration

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Speaker 1: for Sport allowed Valieva to compete in the Beijing Winter

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Speaker 1: Olympics despite testing positive tour banned substance.

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Speaker 2: During Senate estimatecy yesterday, Treasury officials told senators that the

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Speaker 2: federal government's Job Maker scheme had created just seven three

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty seven new jobs compared to the four

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty thousand it was intended to generate when

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Speaker 2: it was first announced back in October twenty twenty. Labour

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Speaker 2: Senator Katie Gallagher said the scheme had fallen well short

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Speaker 2: of expectations.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news. People in Belgium now have the

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Speaker 1: right to work a four day week without their salary

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Speaker 1: being decreased. Employees can now request to work longer days

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Speaker 1: throughout the week to earn their three day weekend, and

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Speaker 1: the change was part of an overhauled to labour practices

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Speaker 1: in the country. As part of that overhaul, employees have

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Speaker 1: also been given the right to turn off work devices

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Speaker 1: and ignore message after working hours. Zia, we could never

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Speaker 1: do that to our TDA listeners.

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Speaker 2: A quick trigger warning before we jump into today's deep dive,

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Speaker 2: we will be discussing topics including sexual assault. Yesterday, we

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Speaker 2: woke up to the news that Prince Andrew, he's the

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Speaker 2: Queen's second son, after Prince Charles, had reached an out

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Speaker 2: of court settlement with a woman who had accused him

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Speaker 2: of sexual assault. Sam take us through what happened.

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Speaker 1: A big development in a story we've been talking about

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Speaker 1: for a while, Zara, Prince Andrew reached an out of

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Speaker 1: court settlement with Virginia Giffrey, who had brought a civil

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Speaker 1: sexual assault case against the Prince, and that basically means

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Speaker 1: they've come to a private agreement between the two parties

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Speaker 1: and there will no longer be a court case to

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Speaker 1: determine if Prince Andrew is indeed guilty of this crime.

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Speaker 1: And as a part of the out of court settlement,

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Speaker 1: Prince Andrew has paid a sum of money to Jeffrey.

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Speaker 1: According to the Telegraph in the US the UK, that

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Speaker 1: amount of money is twelve million pounds, which is about

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Speaker 1: twenty two million Australian dollars. It's understood the Queen will

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Speaker 1: actually partly fund that settlement. We also know via court

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Speaker 1: filing that Prince Andrew will make a substantial donation. Those

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Speaker 1: are the words that we used to Jeffray's charity, which

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Speaker 1: supports victim's rights. The statement also said Prince Andrew quote

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Speaker 1: never intended to malign Missteriffray's character and recognized she had

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Speaker 1: suffered both as an established victim of abuse and as

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Speaker 1: a result of unfair public attacks.

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Speaker 2: Can you remind us what the actual allegations against Prince

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Speaker 2: Andrew were in the first place.

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Speaker 1: So, Virginia Geffrey is a longtime accuser of the late

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Speaker 1: Jeffrey Epstein, who is a convicted sex offender and has

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Speaker 1: faced countless allegations from women of sex trafficking. And Jeffrey

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Speaker 1: alleges that Epstein and his longtime companion Glaine Maxwell, who's

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Speaker 1: also been in the news a lot this year, as

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Speaker 1: well as Prince Andrew himself, forced her to engage in

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Speaker 1: sexual activity with the Royal So Geffrey alleged that Prince

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Speaker 1: Anna Andrew abused her in two thousand and one when

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Speaker 1: she was under age.

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Speaker 2: If she's making these sorts of allegations, something that has

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Speaker 2: confused me along the way is why she's then brought

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Speaker 2: a civil case against Prince Andrew and hasn't proceeded with

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Speaker 2: a criminal case.

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Speaker 1: So to get your head around the answer for this,

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Speaker 1: we need to be talking about the burden of proof.

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Speaker 1: In a criminal case, the burden of proof is beyond

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Speaker 1: a reasonable doubt. There needs to be no questioning in

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Speaker 1: the minds of the jury, or if it's a judge

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Speaker 1: only trial, the judge that the person committed the crime.

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Speaker 1: In a civil case, which is what we have here,

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Speaker 1: it's not the beyond reasonable doubt burden of proof. It's

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Speaker 1: another burden of proof called on the balance of probabilities.

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Speaker 1: That kind of means that if the reasonable person was

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Speaker 1: to say whether he did or he didn't, that the

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Speaker 1: answer would be one way or the other. That's the

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Speaker 1: job for a jury in a civil trial in the

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Speaker 1: United States, So in some ways it's easier to get

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Speaker 1: a finding of guilty in a civil context rather than

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Speaker 1: the criminal context. So you'll see a lot of accusers

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Speaker 1: pursue civil path especially in the US.

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Speaker 2: That all said, Prince Andrew has always denied the allegations,

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Speaker 2: hasn't he exactly?

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Speaker 1: And in a now quite infamous interview with the BBC

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Speaker 1: in twenty nineteen, Prince Andrew addressed the allegations quite extensively.

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Speaker 1: He said Geffray's allegation never happened, and he even said

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Speaker 1: he had no recollection of ever meeting Virginia Geffrey. There

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Speaker 1: were some famous lines in that interview, one of which

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Speaker 1: was that he said he was at a pizza place

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Speaker 1: on one of the nights that Geffrey alleges she had

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Speaker 1: been assaulted by him. This was all said despite the

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Speaker 1: fact there is a photo widely circulated of Prince Andrew

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Speaker 1: with his hand around Geffrey's waist when she was seventeen

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Speaker 1: years old. Prince Andrew did address the photo in that

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen interview, saying, quote, I don't remember the photograph

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Speaker 1: ever being taken, so it's.

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Speaker 2: Very clear he's denied this allegation. What does this out

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Speaker 2: of court settlement say about his proclaimed innocence? Could it

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Speaker 2: be interpreted as an admission of guilt? Why would he

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Speaker 2: not want to clear his name in a court of law.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely not an admission of guilt, and this is

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Speaker 1: a really important point for all of us to get

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Speaker 1: our heads around what it is. And admission of is

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Speaker 1: an admission of wanting it to go away. Whilst Andrew

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Speaker 1: did accept that Geffrey had suffered as a quote victim,

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Speaker 1: of abuse. He made no admission of liability, so we

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Speaker 1: need to kind of see that statement that Geffrey was

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Speaker 1: a victim of abuse in a broader context of the

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Speaker 1: Epstein scandal. We know that so many women were abused

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Speaker 1: by Epstein and Glen Maxwell. Both of those claims have

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Speaker 1: been proven in court, and that comment should be seen

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Speaker 1: as an admission of her wider suffering rather than at

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Speaker 1: the hands of Prince Andrew himself. It's worth noting that

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Speaker 1: people make out of court settlements all the time without

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Speaker 1: making any admission of guilt, and now it means there'll

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Speaker 1: be no civil trials, so it's actually quite unlikely that

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Speaker 1: we're ever going to see the evidence at hand or

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Speaker 1: figure out whether he's guilty or not. The other thing

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Speaker 1: to note is that in these contexts, normally we don't

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Speaker 1: know this for sure. In this case, there's normally an

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Speaker 1: agreement in this type of settlement that further civil action

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Speaker 1: isn't pursued. And what that really means is that this

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Speaker 1: could be the end of the chapter for the Virginia

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Speaker 1: Geffrey Prince Andrew case, at least until some evidence that

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Speaker 1: has so far been off the table comes to light.

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Speaker 2: That's all we have time for today on the dally Ods,

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Speaker 2: Thanks for tuning in. If you like what you hear,

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Speaker 2: leave us a review on Apple Podcasts or rate us

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Speaker 2: on Spotify. It helps an independent media publisher like the

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Speaker 2: dally Ols grow and we so appreciate it. Happy Thursday,