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Speaker 1: What do you do when you've got to deliver really

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Speaker 1: bad news to the kids.

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Speaker 2: You can't you can't breface this with really bad news.

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Speaker 1: It was bad news well for her, I mean it's

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Speaker 1: not catastrophic news, but she felt like you're ruining interrupting

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Speaker 1: my intro here, What do you do when you've got

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Speaker 1: to deliver really bad news to the kids? And what

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Speaker 1: about when one of your children is at war with

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Speaker 1: somebody else's child? How do you resolve the conflict? Hello,

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Speaker 1: and thank you so much for joining us on the

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast Real parenting Solutions. Every day on Australia's

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Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast, we are Justin and Kylie Coulson.

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Speaker 1: May I share my story?

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Speaker 2: Go for it?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So for those of you who are knew to

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Speaker 1: the pod. Every Friday on the Happy Families Podcast, we

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Speaker 1: reflect on the week that was, we call this episode

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Speaker 1: I'll do Better Tomorrow. Why. Well, because every parent wants

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Speaker 1: to be intentional. Every parent wants to do better tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: By examining it, by putting ourselves under the microscope, we

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Speaker 1: get to have a look at what we're doing right

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Speaker 1: and wrong and hopefully help you and us to do

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Speaker 1: it better. Tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm trying to work out what this really bad

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Speaker 2: news is.

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Speaker 1: It's the bad news earlier this week, I think it

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Speaker 1: was on Tuesday afternoon. You and I were recording a

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Speaker 1: podcast and we looked at the time and realized that

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Speaker 1: it had gotten away from us. We were not going

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Speaker 1: to get to school in time to pick up our

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Speaker 1: grade ten daughter. She attends school about a thirty to

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Speaker 1: forty minute walk from our home, and I had to

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Speaker 1: message her and give her the really bad news.

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Speaker 2: What was the really bad news?

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Speaker 1: You're going to have to walk home? We're recording podcasts.

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Speaker 1: And I thought very seriously about how I did it,

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Speaker 1: because from time to time, especially, I mean, it was

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Speaker 1: a hot day, it's muggy because Cyclone Alfred and all

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Speaker 1: of the rain and all that sort of stuff, super hot,

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Speaker 1: super gross. And I just thought, if I was going

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Speaker 1: to get this bad news, how would I want it

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Speaker 1: to be framed? So I sent the following text message

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Speaker 1: to our sometimes re active, nearly fifteen year old daughter,

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Speaker 1: And this is what I said, My sweet Lily, Oh,

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Speaker 1: my sweet lily, do you like that?

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Speaker 2: You didn't know that sweet talking?

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Speaker 1: I didn't know that was coming, my sweet Lily. Sorry,

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Speaker 1: to do this to you, but Mom and I are

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Speaker 1: recording podcasts and have to ask you to please walk home.

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Speaker 1: I know it's hot. I wish we could help. Take

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Speaker 1: your time, and we'll see you when we see you.

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Speaker 1: If we finish early, we will call you to see

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Speaker 1: if you need a ride. Love you, Lily, Dad. And

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Speaker 1: guess what. She responded with a love heart, And that

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Speaker 1: was it.

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Speaker 2: That's because she was raging so much she couldn't respond

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Speaker 2: with anything else.

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Speaker 1: If she was raging, she would have texted, or she

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Speaker 1: would have called, or she would have been upset at something.

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Speaker 1: She just she didn't leave me on red. She sent

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Speaker 1: me a love heart because she understood the tone. She understood.

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Speaker 1: And I'm saying this with fun, but really what we

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Speaker 1: say matters a lot less than how we say it.

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Speaker 1: And no matter what sort of news we're delivering to

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Speaker 1: our children, the way we say it makes a huge

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Speaker 1: difference in the way that they interpret it, the way

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Speaker 1: they respond to it, and what it does to our relationship.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's a good thing you sent it. I would

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Speaker 2: have just said, hey, kiddo, you're on your own, see

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Speaker 2: when you get.

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Speaker 1: Here, and you know what, she'd probably be fine even

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Speaker 1: if that happened, although she would feel pretty jaded, and

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Speaker 1: I've said it her, Mum, I guess the main thing

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Speaker 1: that I'm highlighting here is when we consider it, When

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Speaker 1: we consider it of others or show that if we

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Speaker 1: could help, we would, it demonstrates understanding, It shows empathy,

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Speaker 1: and people are much more responsive to it that mishappy

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Speaker 1: Families is my older better tomorrow. The message we send matters,

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Speaker 1: and the way we send it matters even more impressive. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so let's talk about how you have gotten through this week.

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Speaker 1: What have you learned, what have you done right from

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Speaker 1: a parenting perspective, or what do you wish you could

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Speaker 1: do again?

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Speaker 2: So our ten year old Emily is homeschooled, but attends

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Speaker 2: various extracurricular activities that enable her to have social interactions

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Speaker 2: with other kids.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she's in a bunch of classes and things like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and in one particular class, there is a child

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Speaker 2: who she has clashed with from day one.

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Speaker 1: And it's got to and we're up today like seven

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Speaker 1: hundred and fifty or something like that, has been more

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Speaker 1: than a couple of years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's really really challenging. And it occurred to me

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Speaker 2: that in all of our efforts to teach our kids

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Speaker 2: how to work through challenges, she's actually missed the memo

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Speaker 2: on this one, or we've missed the memo we haven't

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Speaker 2: shared and taught her a really, really important skill. So

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Speaker 2: I asked her if she was aware of the vicious

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Speaker 2: circle and she said, what's the vicious circle? And I said,

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Speaker 2: I might need to talk to you about that. So

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Speaker 2: I waited till we were really soft. She came into

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Speaker 2: my room one morning last week and wanted to have

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Speaker 2: some snuggles after wake up, and I said, do you

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Speaker 2: think we could talk about the vicious circle right now?

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Speaker 2: And she said yeah, sure, mom. So I said I'm

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Speaker 2: going to need some pen and paper. So she raised

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Speaker 2: off and she grabbed some pen and paper and I said,

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Speaker 2: we've been having a really hard time with John, haven't we?

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Speaker 2: And she said, yeah, it's been really hard. I don't

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Speaker 2: like him at all. And I said, I know, I know.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me what it is about John that

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Speaker 2: makes you so upset? She said, well, whenever I'm participating

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Speaker 2: in class, he always just makes really rude comments to me.

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Speaker 2: I said, comments like what and she said, he tells

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Speaker 2: me that no one asked me whenever I say something,

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Speaker 2: he says, who cares? And he tells me that I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna know it all every time? And I said, how

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Speaker 2: does that make you feel? And she said, it just

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Speaker 2: makes me really sad, and then it makes me feel angry.

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Speaker 1: It's really problematic behavior. That's really concerning.

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Speaker 2: And I said to her, when you feel sad and angry,

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Speaker 2: I said, what does that make you do? And she said, well,

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Speaker 2: it means that I usually will say rude things back

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Speaker 2: to him. And I said, oh, can you tell me

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Speaker 2: some of the things that you might say when you're

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Speaker 2: feeling angry and hurt? And she'd said, I'd rather be

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Speaker 2: a know it all than be like you.

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Speaker 1: And I said, I'm sure that some parents are going

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Speaker 1: go girl, go girl, but is that okay?

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Speaker 2: So anyway, I then asked her, I said, when you

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Speaker 2: say things like that to John, I said, how do

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Speaker 2: you think that leaves him feeling? And she said, Mom,

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Speaker 2: he just laughs at me, and then he tells all

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Speaker 2: of his friends more rude stuff about me, and he

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Speaker 2: says more unkind things about me. And I said, I

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Speaker 2: know how that feels. I said, often when people laugh

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Speaker 2: when things aren't supposed to be funny, a cover up

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Speaker 2: to what they're really feeling. I said, if he wasn't laughing,

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Speaker 2: what do you think he'd be feeling? And she said

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Speaker 2: he'd probably be really sad. And then she paused for

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Speaker 2: a second and she looked at me and she said,

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Speaker 2: I think he'd feel injured. The clarity of thought with

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Speaker 2: this kid, oh my griss. And I looked at her

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Speaker 2: and I said, and when he feels injured, what does

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Speaker 2: he do? And she said, well, then he says man

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Speaker 2: mean things to me again. And I said to her,

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Speaker 2: I had drawn this in a circle, and so at

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Speaker 2: each part there's four four parts to the circle, and

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Speaker 2: so I filled in the boxes for her so she

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Speaker 2: could actually see it. And once we'd completed the circle

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Speaker 2: and we were back to John saying mean things to her,

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Speaker 2: I did a big flurry of scribble in the middle

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Speaker 2: and I said, can you see how we're in this big, yucky,

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Speaker 2: vicious circle and we can't get out of it? She said, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I can.

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Speaker 1: I want to jump in really quickly. Here. There would

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Speaker 1: be the ten for some people listening to think, oh,

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Speaker 1: hang on, now you're blaming your daughter for his bad behavior,

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Speaker 1: But that's not what's going on here. This is about

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Speaker 1: ownership and accountability for the part that you plan a conflict,

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Speaker 1: and if you try to work out where it started,

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Speaker 1: you've got to go back to two and a half

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Speaker 1: three years to when we moved to the Sunshine Coast

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Speaker 1: and she ended up in this boy, John's class. John

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Speaker 1: is an alias. Of course, it's a pseudonym, and we'll

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Speaker 1: never know. We'll never actually know where it began. What

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Speaker 1: we know though, is that over the last two to

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Speaker 1: three years, these kids have fed off each other. And

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Speaker 1: that's the real key here. This is not about absolving

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Speaker 1: someone of responsibility. Rather, it's about helping all parties. I mean,

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Speaker 1: John's really got to be part of this conversation as

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Speaker 1: well if we're going to be super effective. But all

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Speaker 1: parties need to understand that if there is a conflict,

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Speaker 1: they're each making some form of contribution to it. Hard truth,

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Speaker 1: but reality.

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Speaker 2: So we sat there and I said to her, what

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Speaker 2: what we need to do to actually break this circle?

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Speaker 2: How do we break this cycle that we're in because

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Speaker 2: every time you see each other, you are triggered by

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Speaker 2: his response to something that you've said, which then means

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Speaker 2: that you're unkind back, and we just keep going round

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Speaker 2: and round, And I said, so for me, I can

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Speaker 2: only see two places where we get to break this.

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Speaker 2: I said. Either we decide that when John says something unkind,

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Speaker 2: we're just going to ignore it because we know it's

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Speaker 2: not truth, and therefore we can alleviate ourselves from feeling

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Speaker 2: sad and angry. I said, but that's really tricky because

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Speaker 2: when they say things like that, it really hurts, doesn't it.

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Speaker 2: She said yeah? I said, So the next thing is,

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Speaker 2: can we stop it once even though we do feel that,

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Speaker 2: even though we do feel hurt and we do feel sad,

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Speaker 2: can we stop it there by not adding to the conflict?

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Speaker 2: And what would that do to the relationship over time?

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Speaker 2: Do you think that he might just lose steam when

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Speaker 2: there's no longer any response? And it was just I

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Speaker 2: was so proud of her. She's ten, but to be

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Speaker 2: able to sit there in that place and number one

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Speaker 2: feel heard and understood, but number two to have the

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Speaker 2: consciousness and the perspective to recognize that her words matter

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Speaker 2: to was really powerful. And so the next step now

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Speaker 2: is how do we involve the other child in this conversation.

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Speaker 2: I'd love to know, because this is where the real

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Speaker 2: learning can happen for both children as they come to

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Speaker 2: recognize and see each other's perspective. She's been able to

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Speaker 2: take a step back and recognize that her efforts are

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Speaker 2: hurting him, and so now we have this opportunity down

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Speaker 2: the track to actually help him to recognize the same.

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Speaker 2: The challenge, as you would be aware of, is that

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Speaker 2: we can only change us in any gar moment in time.

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Speaker 2: We only have control over us. So in spite of

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Speaker 2: all of our efforts to help the other child come

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Speaker 2: to the party with this, we actually don't get a

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Speaker 2: say in that at all. And there'll be plenty of

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Speaker 2: times in life where you won't even have the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to have that kind of dialogue with someone. So helping

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Speaker 2: your children to work out how they personally can stop

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Speaker 2: that cycle is such an important skill for their wellbeing.

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Speaker 1: If anybody would like more information about that particular cycle.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we haven't been through it with our kids

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Speaker 1: for ages, because except for Emily, they all know it

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Speaker 1: and can recite it back to us, and they roll

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Speaker 1: their eyes when we do it. But they copped it,

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Speaker 1: that's the wrong word. But they experienced that empathy and

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Speaker 1: that paradigm shift several times when they were younger and

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Speaker 1: having lots of fights with one another. It's available in

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Speaker 1: my book Ten Things Every Parent Needs to Know, and

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Speaker 1: it's usually in the context of sibling rivalry. But I

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Speaker 1: love what you've done there, So powerful, so helpful. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: it really shifted the way she sees him and their

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Speaker 1: relationship and her attendance and participation in that class.

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Speaker 2: I don't think this is over. I think we've got

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Speaker 2: a long way to go before she's going to be

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Speaker 2: able to work through this, but it's a really powerful start.

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Speaker 1: Well, what's the take home message? In a nutshell?

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Speaker 2: It takes two to tango mm And it's a hard

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Speaker 2: truth at times, because we want to blame the other

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Speaker 2: person for the hurt that we're experiencing. But you can't

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Speaker 2: have a conflict with one person. We'd call that an

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Speaker 2: internal battle, but that in order for there to be

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Speaker 2: injured feelings between two parties, it takes two people.

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Speaker 1: Right, if it's ongoing. Of course, bullying is a different

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Speaker 1: matter entirely, But we're talking about this thing where one

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Speaker 1: person is feeding stuff to the other and it's being

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Speaker 1: fared right back. Really interesting conversation, really helpful and hopeful,

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Speaker 1: I'm sure for a lot of parents who are dealing

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Speaker 1: with this sort of stuff. The Happy Family's podcast is

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Speaker 1: produced by Justin Rulan for Bridge Media. We hope you

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Speaker 1: have a great weekend and we'll be back tomorrow with

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Speaker 1: a conversation with Lenor'skenazzi, the world's worst mum on the

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Speaker 1: Happy Family Podcast. We'll find out more about that tomorrow

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Speaker 1: for your weekend listening. More information and more resources though

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Speaker 1: to make your family happier. You'll find them at happy

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Speaker 1: families dot com, dot a