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Speaker 1: Ever wondered what it's like to do someone else's geek.

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Speaker 2: Time to find out this is crazy and Lisa's inside.

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Speaker 1: Job at least time on inside job. Just because a

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Speaker 1: book is racing off the shelves or hitting the bestseller list,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't mean the name on the front of the

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Speaker 1: book is the person who wrote it. So we thought

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Speaker 1: we catch up with a ghostwriter, Liam Peeper.

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Speaker 3: Welcome, Hello, Hello, thanks having me.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for the shouting to us. Now right off the

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Speaker 2: top of the back, we have to say, you can't

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Speaker 2: tell us any of the books you've written, can you.

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Speaker 3: I'm afraid sorry, that's sort of the part of the deal.

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Speaker 3: I'm a ghostwriter, so yeah, So.

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Speaker 2: Tell us exactly what a ghost writer is.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, good question. Ghostwriting is writing a book for

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Speaker 3: and with another person. So helping someone who has an

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Speaker 3: amazing story to tell to actually tell it, to write

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Speaker 3: it down, you know, because you know, writing a book

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Speaker 3: is a very specific set of skills. You have to

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Speaker 3: It takes a while to learn how to do it.

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Speaker 3: And most people who you know, the clients I work with,

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Speaker 3: the authors I work with to write a book, have

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Speaker 3: done something amazing in life. You know, whether that's in

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Speaker 3: sports or arts or politics, or you know, maybe they

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Speaker 3: just have a million follows on TikTok these days. Who knows,

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Speaker 3: But you know they've achieved something that you can only

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Speaker 3: do it if you were smart enough to, you know,

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Speaker 3: avoid becoming a professional writer like I did.

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Speaker 1: Damn. Now you think if you start, you'd be able

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Speaker 1: to write it yourself. It's truelem, can you give us

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Speaker 1: an idea of how you can you get involved in

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Speaker 1: writing people's books? You? Is it true? An agent as

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Speaker 1: such that contacts you and says, look, this person needs

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Speaker 1: your assistance, your professional assistant.

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Speaker 3: Someone is Yeah, generally it's through Generally it's through a publisher.

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Speaker 3: So a publisher, will you sign someone up to write

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Speaker 3: a book? You know, say a footy player is retired

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Speaker 3: after a long, glorious career.

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Speaker 2: The story, I'll take care of the.

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Speaker 1: Sentence the boys.

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Speaker 3: To pick a random example, and then you know, the

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Speaker 3: public the publisher will call me up and you know,

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Speaker 3: then I'll sit down with the with the client, with

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Speaker 3: the author, which is the term I mean, the person

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Speaker 3: whose name is on the book, and you know, we'll

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Speaker 3: sit down. First of all, we'll see if we get along,

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Speaker 3: because it's important that you get along because it takes

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Speaker 3: a minute to write a book, you know, and it's

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Speaker 3: a bit like that first thing. The first you know,

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Speaker 3: a couple of sessions are a bit a bit like

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Speaker 3: a cross between a blind date and a therapy session.

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Speaker 3: It's a bit of a weird one, you know, you

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Speaker 3: were you know, if you get along and it works out,

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Speaker 3: then basically here they tell you, they tell you all

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Speaker 3: about their life and you just sort of you help

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Speaker 3: them shape it together and write it down. You know,

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Speaker 3: they give you the puzzle pieces and you know, after

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Speaker 3: the I've been doing this a long time, so I'm

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Speaker 3: good at puzzles.

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Speaker 2: Talking about sets sets of skills, you really, you must

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Speaker 2: have to have an amazing set of skills, really and

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Speaker 2: because first of all, you've got to be able to

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Speaker 2: write a book that is in and of itself, you know,

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Speaker 2: a great achievement. Secondly, you are dealing with people with egos,

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Speaker 2: and then you've got to draw the stories out of them,

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Speaker 2: and you've got to transform their stories, you know, into

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Speaker 2: a book.

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Speaker 1: So there's a lot going on.

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Speaker 3: There's a lot going on, and it's a it's a

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Speaker 3: it's a weird and specific set of skills. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: you know, like their egos. Everyone's got egos, you know. Luckily,

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Speaker 3: you know, my night job, my goot, writing is my

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Speaker 3: day job. Let's say that I write novels in my

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Speaker 3: spare time, and that's an excellent way to keep your

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Speaker 3: ego in check. The speaks, well, the steaks are very low,

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Speaker 3: and you know, you know you'll inn to check ther

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Speaker 3: ego at the door because you know, the author, like,

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Speaker 3: it's such a my job is it's such a pleasure.

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Speaker 3: I really love doing it. You know, I love telling stories.

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Speaker 3: I love writing about this set of skills from books.

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Speaker 3: But you know, the author, you know, I'm I've good

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Speaker 3: at writing books. I've been doing a long time. But

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm just not that interesting. Honestly, I felt

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Speaker 3: like five or six you know, good stories inside.

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Speaker 1: Now put yourself there. You have you ever had those

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Speaker 1: early meetings or one meeting? Are gone. I can't do this.

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Speaker 1: I'm knocking the job back. Has it ever happened?

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Speaker 3: It happens a few times.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, no connection.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just not the right person to tell it,

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Speaker 3: you know, like you know, for it might be a

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Speaker 3: sports person that you know, it's not a sporting code

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Speaker 3: followed very closely. Yeah, you know we're not interesting. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: I mean there's that, But also I'm just not the

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Speaker 3: right person to tell that story. That would be better off,

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Speaker 3: you know, like I'm not a big cricket head for example,

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Speaker 3: which there are those writers out there who are greater

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Speaker 3: cricket and live and breathe it, and you know what

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Speaker 3: would be a to do that job just better than

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Speaker 3: I can, you know what I mean. Yeah, So, you know,

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Speaker 3: sometimes that doesn't work out. Sometimes you just don't get

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Speaker 3: along and it doesn't click. You know, it's like a date.

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Speaker 3: You know, you go home and you order a picture

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Speaker 3: and you watch Netflix.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough work out.

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Speaker 2: What about But this, this is the scenario that would

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Speaker 2: drive me nuts. So you've written an amazing book for

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Speaker 2: someone whose name is on the front. You're at a

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Speaker 2: dinner party. Everyone's talking about this in Oh have you

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Speaker 2: read such and such this book? It's so well written,

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Speaker 2: The delicate nuance is just incredible. Sitting there busting out

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Speaker 2: of your skin to go I wrote that.

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Speaker 3: You know, it has happened. It has happened. There's a

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Speaker 3: couple of books that have hit big and like you

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Speaker 3: know that, you know, books are very popular and have

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Speaker 3: helped you know, one book in particular, was a very

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Speaker 3: good book and the truest sense of the word, Like,

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Speaker 3: it's a good book, but a good man who helped

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Speaker 3: a lot of people through a difficult time. And like

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Speaker 3: often get people recommending that book to me the other

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Speaker 3: day a little while it's a good reason. The other day,

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Speaker 3: you know, I was talking on my stream, I was like,

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Speaker 3: things are a very stressful right now. I'm not having

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Speaker 3: a how do I manage my anxiety? Like have you

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Speaker 3: read this book? Fantastic?

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Speaker 1: Actually, when you're having those, especially those early ladies, when

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Speaker 1: you're digging deeper into someone's story, is it harder for

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Speaker 1: them and therefore yourself because they're very emotional or the

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Speaker 1: content is controversial, so they're not sure what they can say.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there's some of that, but you know that's an

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Speaker 3: element of the job, you know, writing a good memoir

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Speaker 3: a MEMOHI you know, first person autobiography, so someone telling

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Speaker 3: their story in their own words. A lot of the

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Speaker 3: job is knowing what to leave out, you know, because

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Speaker 3: you know you're not telling the story of a person's

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Speaker 3: whole life, that you're telling the story about a part

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Speaker 3: of their life that then tells a story about something bigger.

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Speaker 3: A bigger idea, you know, a bigger sort of you know,

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Speaker 3: take away a bit of wisdom about humanity. You know.

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Speaker 3: So you know, the tricky part of the job, which

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Speaker 3: I guess is what they bring me in for because

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Speaker 3: they've got the experience in it, is you know, knowing

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Speaker 3: what's a whittle away and like how to really get

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Speaker 3: to the core of someone's story and know what it's about.

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Speaker 3: You know, that's kind of a more interesting thing of it,

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Speaker 3: because you know it's a you know, people people know

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Speaker 3: how to tell their stories that I've got a good

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Speaker 3: ear for hearing what is going to be the most

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Speaker 3: important and universal part of that for a wide group

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Speaker 3: of readers, you know, like the author, you know, the

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Speaker 3: person that I mean, the person the name on their book.

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Speaker 3: They're contributing everything that matters. You know, they've got their

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Speaker 3: life experience, their knowledge, their wisdom, sense of humor, you know,

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Speaker 3: the voice, all that good stuff which is the key

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Speaker 3: to a book success. You know, they bring all that

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Speaker 3: to the table. But you know, I've got an ear

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Speaker 3: after all this time and doing this for a while

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Speaker 3: to hear what's in that story that appeals to me,

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Speaker 3: that like leaps out to me and I know we'll

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Speaker 3: leap out to to you know, to readers, like for example,

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Speaker 3: like if we go back to you know, the footy

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Speaker 3: player example. You know, I've never won a Grand final.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what it's like to be part of

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Speaker 3: a premiership team, but you know, I do know people

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Speaker 3: who do, and I know I know how to tell stories.

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Speaker 3: If someone wants to write that book about footy glory,

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Speaker 3: you know, they bring, they bring the footy, they bring

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Speaker 3: the glory, they bring all of that heart, and I

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Speaker 3: just bring the book of it all because I can.

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Speaker 3: I've got an idea of you know, obviously we don't

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Speaker 3: want to talk about every practice session, every injury, yeah,

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Speaker 3: you know, little any rivalry they ever had, you know,

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Speaker 3: lead or whatever. But I know what the heart of

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Speaker 3: that is, so like I can concentrate on that and

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Speaker 3: you know, help slowly, generally over time, convince people to

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Speaker 3: drop away the stuff that needs to be let go.

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Speaker 2: And what about if you're you know, you're sort of

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Speaker 2: tapping away on the keys and they're behind you telling

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Speaker 2: the story and it's getting more and more grandiose, and

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Speaker 2: you'll think old boots.

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Speaker 1: Elaborating. I mean it's their story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know some people, you know, tales have

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Speaker 3: a tendency to grover the time they can do.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 3: You know, luckily we live in an age where things

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Speaker 3: are fairly easily fat checked.

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Speaker 2: Of course, yeah, it doesn't stop them. Okay, what is

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Speaker 2: the one the very one question that you always get

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Speaker 2: asked about your job?

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Speaker 3: Well, the one question would be can you tell me

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Speaker 3: who you work for? And the answer sadly, you just can't.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to ask you that.

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Speaker 3: We want to guess I could tell you, but then

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Speaker 3: they would have to kill me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and that would be before Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: think fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Some of my clients could probably have me killed, but

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Speaker 3: I think we get.

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Speaker 1: Before you go just curious and then this is a

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Speaker 1: long sorry. Sure. About five six years ago I started

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Speaker 1: writing a book about radio interviews I've done with celebs right.

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Speaker 1: And I had a friend who was an author who

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Speaker 1: was encouraging me to do it. And she said, give

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Speaker 1: me three chapters and I'll edit it. And she went

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Speaker 1: through and edited, and there was so much red pen

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Speaker 1: She said that bitsteemed racist in some cultures, that it's

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Speaker 1: not interesting and you need to dig deeper here, And

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Speaker 1: about sixty percent of what I've written was just gone.

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Speaker 1: Do people get sensitive when you say, look, that's not

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Speaker 1: going to work. Do this?

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Speaker 3: They certainly do. They certainly do. But that's part of

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Speaker 3: the job. You're part of writing, you know, like writing

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Speaker 3: is rewriting, you know. Yeah, the first draft of everything

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Speaker 3: is sometimes not great, especially my own work. You know,

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Speaker 3: is no exception to that. So you know, the first

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Speaker 3: draft comes through and then you had a little way

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Speaker 3: and you applay different sensitivities and cultural you know, culture

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Speaker 3: changes over time, ideas change, so you know, it's a

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Speaker 3: lot of that. But you know, so it's a lot.

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Speaker 3: What you've just described is a lot of the process,

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Speaker 3: you know. And if you ever need a ghost I mean.

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Speaker 1: Remember very got the very sweet publisher email, let's say

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Speaker 1: no thanks.

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Speaker 2: Meantime, your very latest book is called Appreciation, is it not?

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Speaker 2: So I get that into your your book club people

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Speaker 2: and see the real well not the real Liam versus

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Speaker 2: the but the liand that is allowed.

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Speaker 1: To be Leo one he can you can boast about.

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Speaker 2: It's been absolutely fabulous having your chat with you.

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Speaker 3: It's amazing mate, well done, thank you, thank you, thank

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Speaker 3: you so much for chatting to me. There's been so

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Speaker 3: much time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Liam appreciate that a list