Speaker 1: Hello, my name's Santasha Nabananga Bamblet. I'm a proud Order
Speaker 1: Order Kerney Whalbury and a waddery woman. And before we
Speaker 1: get started on She's on the Money podcast, I would
Speaker 1: like to acknowledge the traditional custodians of the land of
Speaker 1: which this podcast is recorded on a wondery country, acknowledging
Speaker 1: the elders, the ancestors and the next generation coming through
Speaker 1: as this podcast is about connecting, empowering, knowledge sharing and
Speaker 1: the storytelling of you to make a difference for today
Speaker 1: and lasting impact for tomorrow. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2: She's on the Money, She's on the Money.
Speaker 3: Hello, and welcome to She's on the Money, the podcast
Speaker 3: that makes money talk easy and relatable. Just like chatting
Speaker 3: with your besties, that's us and if your besties are moms.
Speaker 3: This question is probably one that comes up in the
Speaker 3: group chat a lot. Is it really worth going back
Speaker 3: to work with these childcare costs? It is a tricky one.
Speaker 3: I know a lot of our audience are probably feeling
Speaker 3: the pin right now. Well, today I'm here with our
Speaker 3: resident finance expert and supermom, Victoria Devine.
Speaker 4: Supermum is a stretch. I'm like my baby is fed
Speaker 4: and clothed and not crying.
Speaker 3: Sleigh, that is a winner.
Speaker 4: Truly credible. Beck, I am very excited to be here
Speaker 4: talking about childcare. This is new to me and I
Speaker 4: cannot wait to dive deeper.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know, I don't have children, but
Speaker 3: it just sounds like it's so much gonna be.
Speaker 4: Shook with the information that I'm bringing today. You're going
Speaker 4: to be like, how in this economy can anyone afford children?
Speaker 3: Mmm? Well, I'm excited to hear so v how much
Speaker 3: exactly our families spending on childcare.
Speaker 4: It's not very pretty so on average, Australian families are
Speaker 4: spending around seventeen percent of their income on child care. Well,
Speaker 4: as you can probably imagine, that is a massive financial
Speaker 4: commitment that's forced many parents to make a really hard
Speaker 4: decision between work and family life. And for many of them,
Speaker 4: childcare is such a big financial strain that impacts literally
Speaker 4: everything from weekly grocery budgets to long term saving goals
Speaker 4: and living their best life. In places like Sydney. In Melbourne,
Speaker 4: full time childcare can set you back back, sit down
Speaker 4: anywhere between one hundred and twenty and two hundred and
Speaker 4: twenty dollars a day, a day, a day, and Bestie
Speaker 4: on this side of the table, I'm spending one hundred
Speaker 4: and ninety four dollars a day on childcare a day.
Speaker 4: Is so outrage and I'm only sharing that because that's
Speaker 4: inner Melbourne. And I feel like when I put on
Speaker 4: my Instagram a couple of months before Harvey was due,
Speaker 4: because I was really trying to set all my ducks
Speaker 4: up and like, you know, pick a day care before
Speaker 4: he'd even like gotten here. Basically because even the waitlist
Speaker 4: beck are insane, I was asking like how much do
Speaker 4: you pay? And it was so wildly different, like some
Speaker 4: of them are like, oh, one twenty a day, someone
Speaker 4: like literally like two hundred and fifty, like on averages
Speaker 4: between one twenty and two twenty a day. But it
Speaker 4: varied so much that now I'm like, well, I'm you know,
Speaker 4: in a city Melbourne, I'm within that like ten kilometer
Speaker 4: bring around to the CBD and I'm paying one hundred
Speaker 4: and ninety four dollars a day. And having been a
Speaker 4: little bit over the top, I looked at basically every
Speaker 4: single deca in my area and that was actually average,
Speaker 4: like it wasn't oh the most expensive one that was
Speaker 4: just what you pay crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like sometimes that would be more than what
Speaker 3: someone makes a day if they were Yeah, and get this,
Speaker 3: if you have a permanent position. So I am lucky
Speaker 3: enough that Harvey has been given a permanent position. So
Speaker 3: we know that he goes two days a week, but
Speaker 3: those two days a week it's set aside for him.
Speaker 3: But if your child doesn't go because they're sick, you
Speaker 3: still have to pay. Really, yeah, you can't just like
Speaker 3: call in and be like sorry, like we're not coming
Speaker 3: in today. Money in, Like no, no, you're paying for that day.
Speaker 3: And even though they probably got sick from being in childcare,
Speaker 3: that doesn't.
Speaker 4: Matter at all. And I think nothing recently has stung
Speaker 4: quite as much as seeing a payment go through for
Speaker 4: the days that Harvey hasn't been in his little class. Wow.
Speaker 3: I mean, like, I know that childcare workers do deserve
Speaker 3: to be paid a lot.
Speaker 4: And so I wrote a whole article in the Sydney
Speaker 4: Morning Herald and the Age probably a year ago now,
Speaker 4: just being like what the heck. And this was during
Speaker 4: my period of time where I was doing all of
Speaker 4: my research on my daycare centers. Working out what we
Speaker 4: were going to pay for and what that looked like,
Speaker 4: and I was horrified. I mean, that's a conversation probably
Speaker 4: for another day, because they do deserve to be paid
Speaker 4: so much more, and we'll touch on it absolutely so,
Speaker 4: because I don't really know what these costs are, Like,
Speaker 4: I am quite mortified, but I'm sure.
Speaker 3: There are reasons for this.
Speaker 4: So there definitely are reasons for this.
Speaker 3: Tell me, yeah, what's driving these high costs?
Speaker 4: Honestly, A lot of it just comes down to regulation.
Speaker 4: So childcare centers have to meet really strict staff to
Speaker 4: child ratios, which then obviously varies by child grouping and
Speaker 4: affects the price. So right now, Harvey is six months old,
Speaker 4: but that means he's got the most level of care
Speaker 4: right now, So there's the minimum amount of babies per
Speaker 4: child care worker in his room because he can't even
Speaker 4: sit up unassisted at this point, Like we can sit up,
Speaker 4: then we fall over, so he needs basically someone always
Speaker 4: watching him. Whereas you can probably imagine once you get
Speaker 4: to like three or four, I won't say they're fully independent,
Speaker 4: but like they're happy to go play on their own
Speaker 4: and they can get their own toys and whatnot. So
Speaker 4: for little ones under two here in Australia, it's one
Speaker 4: care for every four children, which obviously drives up costs
Speaker 4: to maintain that quality, but also your kids safety, right,
Speaker 4: so you've got one person per four children, and as
Speaker 4: your kids get older obviously that relaxes. And here in
Speaker 4: Australia kids over three can have about ten or eleven
Speaker 4: kids per care, depending on your state, which means that
Speaker 4: usually your fees will drop a little bit lower, but honestly,
Speaker 4: nothing to write home about.
Speaker 3: Sure, I assume, like inflation, cost of living going up,
Speaker 3: that probably is also a.
Speaker 4: Kind of oh my gosh, yes, yeah, oh, I'm looking
Speaker 4: at it at the moment. And there's obviously a lot
Speaker 4: in the media about more support happening for childcare, but
Speaker 4: I can just see it coming. Cares are just going
Speaker 4: to increase their prices and pass things onto you, which
Speaker 4: I think is crazy. But with basic needs like rent
Speaker 4: and utilities and our grocery bills being so much, don't
Speaker 4: get me started on the Woolies profit this year, those
Speaker 4: costs get passed on, which makes childcare even more expensive.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I see, that's so hectic.
Speaker 4: And some centers beck it's like the wild West in
Speaker 4: a way. I won't say there's obviously like a lot
Speaker 4: of regulation, but sure. Some childcare centers, like the one
Speaker 4: Harvey's privileged enough to go to, is all inclusive, so
Speaker 4: like I drop him off in the morning and it
Speaker 4: includes his meals, it includes nappies, it includes his formula,
Speaker 4: which is really cool. I didn't realize that. Like when
Speaker 4: I dropped him off for the first time for orientation,
Speaker 4: they were like, what formula is he on? And I
Speaker 4: was like, oh, he's on this and they were like,
Speaker 4: no worries, We'll buy it and put it to the side. Cool,
Speaker 4: And I was like, okay, Like that made it sting
Speaker 4: slightly less. I guess that makes it formula's expensive, beck, Yeah,
Speaker 4: and that formula for Harvey thirty four dollars a can
Speaker 4: and we go through like at least a can a week.
Speaker 4: Oh wow, okay, so right, it kind of shaves off
Speaker 4: a little bit, the smallest amount. I mean, if they
Speaker 4: cut my day care fees in half, I would be
Speaker 4: very happy to be wayo formula. But not everybody is
Speaker 4: in that lucky position. Some people will probably be like,
Speaker 4: V I'm paying what you're paying, and I have to
Speaker 4: send nappies to daycare. I have to send formula, I
Speaker 4: have to send a packed lunch. Like, as I said,
Speaker 4: it can kind of be the wild West. There's no like, oh,
Speaker 4: if you charge this much, you have to give this
Speaker 4: level of service. While it's you know, obviously very convenient
Speaker 4: for me, and on average, it costs more in places
Speaker 4: like that than where places where parents supply it. But
Speaker 4: I do know from my DMS from when I was
Speaker 4: talking about childcare, there are some places that just know
Speaker 4: there's such high demand for childcare that they're like, you
Speaker 4: guys can provide everything. We know you're still going to
Speaker 4: come and we're going to charge through the nose. So
Speaker 4: there's a bit of a trade off between convenience and
Speaker 4: costs sometimes but not all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's talk about like the impact on families. I
Speaker 3: assume it's like quite massive. Yeah, it's so.
Speaker 4: Stressful, so many parents And I'm in a mother's group
Speaker 4: now cool. I don't even know if they know I
Speaker 4: have a podcast, but if they do and they happen
Speaker 4: to listen to, high heaps of parents still really forced
Speaker 4: to cut back on work hours or completely leave the
Speaker 4: workforce entirely. Yeah, Beck, when you calculate it out, like thankfully,
Speaker 4: between Steve and I, we only do two days a
Speaker 4: week daycare if you don't get any subsidies, and we
Speaker 4: just going to base it on that one ninety four
Speaker 4: that I mentioned before, if Harvey was in full time
Speaker 4: daycare Monday to Friday so that I could go back
Speaker 4: to work full time, if I was, you know, fully employed,
Speaker 4: and I am definitely seeing the privilege that I have
Speaker 4: right now being a business owner and it being flexible.
Speaker 4: And you know, Beck, if I'm like, hey, Harvey's coming
Speaker 4: into the office, You're like, yeah, sick, no worries, Like yeah,
Speaker 4: nobody minds. I am so lucky, and I know that's
Speaker 4: not the norm. Post tax, that would cost my family
Speaker 4: fifty thousand, four hundred and forty dollars a year.
Speaker 3: That is literally someone's wage. Imagine you're a single poy.
Speaker 4: In someone's wage, like Beck, that's someone's take home cash.
Speaker 4: We're talking an eighty plus thousand dollars salary. And don't
Speaker 4: get me wrong, we will talk about subsidies and stuff
Speaker 4: because a lot of people get money back, but there
Speaker 4: are families out there that you know, one is a
Speaker 4: really big bread winner, has a big dog, job, and like,
Speaker 4: let's not jump into the well, they're so lucky to
Speaker 4: have that income. Like we're not talking about just the
Speaker 4: income here, we're talking about it being viable for women
Speaker 4: to maintain their careers. It just doesn't make sense for
Speaker 4: your wife or your partner or your husband to return
Speaker 4: to work if they earn less than that. Totally go, well,
Speaker 4: what's the point we're paying through the nose for me
Speaker 4: to go to work?
Speaker 3: And just insane, Beck, it is insane. I just really
Speaker 3: worry about the single parents in the situation because they're
Speaker 3: literally what do you do?
Speaker 5: What do?
Speaker 3: You just got to live off zero dollars for it?
Speaker 4: And I mean you will get as a single parent
Speaker 4: subsidies and stuff, and we'll get into that, but that
Speaker 4: doesn't mean that it doesn't come out of your bank account,
Speaker 4: which is something we'll get onto.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 4: Back to career progression, obviously, it impacts that it stalls
Speaker 4: your long term career progression and your long term financial stability.
Speaker 4: And in fact, there was research that I was reading
Speaker 4: recently that said that sixty seven percent of Australian mums
Speaker 4: said childcare costs influenced their decision to work less or
Speaker 4: not at all right, okay, sixty seven percent. It's important
Speaker 4: to also recognize here that not everyone has the life
Speaker 4: of choice. So some families parents need to work to
Speaker 4: make ends meet. But for those of you who do
Speaker 4: have a choice, it's all about weighing up what is
Speaker 4: best for you. A really common way that I'm seeing
Speaker 4: it being broken down is by comparing the cost of
Speaker 4: childcare with what the primary care earns. So once you
Speaker 4: subtract those fees, is the remaining income enough to justify working.
Speaker 4: Sometimes the number bekad just doesn't add up. And then
Speaker 4: the time spent away from your kids, like you just go,
Speaker 4: that's not worth the financial return. And I can see
Speaker 4: that so much now, like I don't want to be
Speaker 4: away from Harvey if I don't have to be yes.
Speaker 4: And then if you said, VI, you're not going to
Speaker 4: earn that much if you did go back to work,
Speaker 4: I'd be like, that's not worth it, Like what are
Speaker 4: you talking about? And I know that if you are
Speaker 4: a parent, you probably really resonate with that. But before
Speaker 4: I was a parent, I think I definitely had the
Speaker 4: view of like no, no, no, Like I am forever
Speaker 4: a working mum, Like I just know that in my soul.
Speaker 4: I need to work to be the best version of me,
Speaker 4: and that's true. But that pool to always be closer
Speaker 4: to Harvey and be around him is there as well,
Speaker 4: and I didn't realize that it would be as strong
Speaker 4: as it is. So I can see it being really,
Speaker 4: really overwhelming for a lot of families to be like,
Speaker 4: I really want my career, but I really love my kids.
Speaker 4: But I really want a career. But is it financially
Speaker 4: viable to do so? And there's long term impacts, like
Speaker 4: if you're out of the workforce, you don't just get
Speaker 4: to enter back where you were and have the same
Speaker 4: amount of career progression. Ah but Beck, what if we
Speaker 4: are looking at all of this the wrong way. We're
Speaker 4: going to take a really quick break, and when we return,
Speaker 4: I'm going to share why I think this mindset could
Speaker 4: potentially use a bit of a shakeup. So don't go anywhere.
Speaker 3: All right, we are back. Thank you for sticking with us,
Speaker 3: but you promise us a hot take before the breakup?
Speaker 3: I do a little Yeah. I was really like intrigued,
Speaker 3: how could we possibly turn this around?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 4: I want to give you guys a bit of a
Speaker 4: mindset shift. When it comes to thinking about childcare costs.
Speaker 4: As you probably already know, I'm a really big believer
Speaker 4: that when you're doing those sums, the cost should actually
Speaker 4: be split between both parents, yes, not just the primary care.
Speaker 4: So how many times do families sit down and go, okay, cool,
Speaker 4: well back, you know, let's pretend you and I had
Speaker 4: a baby. It'd be really cute if we did. We way,
Speaker 4: what do you earn back? And then what do I earn?
Speaker 4: And then you know, the childcare cost gets calculated and
Speaker 4: we go, well, beck, you wouldn't be able to earn
Speaker 4: that much, so not worth your going to work. Let's
Speaker 4: push that back. So not just what the primary care
Speaker 4: is earning, but we're sharing the cost, and by sharing
Speaker 4: the cost, we're acknowledging that raising children is a joint
Speaker 4: effort and that both parents benefit from childcare. I think
Speaker 4: so often the primary care is the one that has
Speaker 4: to sacrifice, and then the other person is seen as like, oh,
Speaker 4: but they're the breadwinner, as though childcare isn't the benefit
Speaker 4: for them, when that's not the case. Because there is
Speaker 4: a trade off to consider. A career break could obviously
Speaker 4: lead to a very significant drop in superannuation contributions. And
Speaker 4: missed opportunity for career growth like I was saying before,
Speaker 4: and promotions and bonuses and pay rises, and over time,
Speaker 4: the gaps in this widens and it affects long term
Speaker 4: earnings and your financial security. And when you return to work,
Speaker 4: it often means that you start at a lower salary
Speaker 4: or like a reduced position, which is another financial penalty.
Speaker 4: And these cumulative effects they add up, and they add
Speaker 4: up quickly but silently. You don't see them, but they're
Speaker 4: adding up, making it really important to weigh the short
Speaker 4: term benefit of a break against the potential long term
Speaker 4: financial impacts. And it's a very tough call with honestly,
Speaker 4: I wish I could tell you, but no perfect answer,
Speaker 4: and it really comes down to what's best for your
Speaker 4: family and your unique situation. But I want to reframe it.
Speaker 4: It's a family cost, not a U cost. It's not
Speaker 4: the cost of you leaving the business. Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 4: You know, one hundred and ninety four dollars a day
Speaker 4: broken up in my family looks like ninety seven dollars
Speaker 4: per head for Steve and I to have a career. Yes,
Speaker 4: that's a bit more palatable.
Speaker 3: I didn't even think about that that's so funny that
Speaker 3: my brain was automatically like, whoever's going back to work
Speaker 3: is paying the thing?
Speaker 4: But patriarchy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, based on that, I assume this affects women more.
Speaker 4: Right, definitely, And like it's not a topic that we're
Speaker 4: discussing on shees on the money because it impacts men significantly,
Speaker 4: Like it is a topic that we're discussing because it
Speaker 4: does impact women more. And women are more likely to
Speaker 4: take extended breaks to care for their kids, and so
Speaker 4: often they shoulder most of these costs, and that contributes
Speaker 4: significantly to the gender pay gap and the subranuation gap
Speaker 4: over time. And how many times have you seen my
Speaker 4: name pop up on Instagram back because I've gotten in
Speaker 4: another fight in the comments section on a post about
Speaker 4: the gender pay gap where people are saying it doesn't exist,
Speaker 4: fighting the good fight or starting fights with people who
Speaker 4: you know when you just go, is this even worth it?
Speaker 4: Because you get people who are smart human beings going yeah,
Speaker 4: these correct, right, But then the potato who posted the
Speaker 4: stuff like, dude, graps not real, Like why are we
Speaker 4: fighting with people who you can't change the opinions of no,
Speaker 4: And it's.
Speaker 3: Also factually really like They're like, show me the research
Speaker 3: stends me a link and I'm.
Speaker 4: Like, right here, right here, it is right here. I
Speaker 4: have put a flashy sign on it. It is right here.
Speaker 3: And they're look, that's not real research.
Speaker 4: I don't what do you deem is real? The onion like,
Speaker 4: I can't. Oh no, I saw that on the Buttudah.
Speaker 3: It must be true all Batuda people.
Speaker 4: So I guess Beck back to the conversation at hand.
Speaker 4: If you do decide to stay home with the kids,
Speaker 4: it's really important to keep these factors in mind when
Speaker 4: you're planning for the future. So my favorite thing.
Speaker 3: Ever, that's let's do some.
Speaker 4: So say you're getting about ten grand a year in
Speaker 4: super Yes, nice. This amount might not seem in isolation
Speaker 4: like that much. So while you're not working, contributing might
Speaker 4: feel like less of a priority. Like whatever, it's ten grand.
Speaker 4: Ten grand's a lot of money. But let's say you
Speaker 4: take five years off, because that's the amount of time
Speaker 4: that it might take your tiny human being to get
Speaker 4: into school. That's fifty thousand dollars in missed super contributions.
Speaker 1: Peck.
Speaker 4: True, that's not great, but over five years, it's easy
Speaker 4: to go, oh, whatever it was five years. We'll shrug
Speaker 4: it off in the short term. But here is why
Speaker 4: it matters, and it all has to do with my
Speaker 4: favorite thing that's not maths, which is compound interest. Like
Speaker 4: compound interesting, it's the money that your money makes. When
Speaker 4: your money's made, money like that is very sexy. If
Speaker 4: that fifty thousand dollars had a chance to compound over
Speaker 4: thirty years, not unreasonable at a very conservative rate of
Speaker 4: seven and a half percent, because we all know that
Speaker 4: the Australian share market has returned more than nine percent.
Speaker 4: Well we can use seven and a half because I
Speaker 4: would much prefer under promise over deliver, you know. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: that's a me thing. It would grow to around four
Speaker 4: hundred and fifty thousand dollars.
Speaker 3: Holy hell, that's so good. It is shocked by this.
Speaker 4: But Beck, most women do not retire with four hundred
Speaker 4: and fifty thousand dollars. That's abranuation.
Speaker 3: It's a real problem.
Speaker 4: So you're telling me that just by really caring about this, yeah,
Speaker 4: we could put women in a better position. We know
Speaker 4: that the highest growing demographic of people experiencing homelessness, Beck
Speaker 4: are women in their fifties and sixties. You're telling me
Speaker 4: that by caring about this, by helping them contribute when
Speaker 4: they take career gaps, I could save a lot of
Speaker 4: people from going through that. Why aren't more people doing
Speaker 4: more stuff about this, That's a great question. So it
Speaker 4: could be very worthwhile having your working partner, beck contribute
Speaker 4: to your super while you're on that break. Yes, again
Speaker 4: a privilege if you have a partner in that situation
Speaker 4: and you're not a single mum. But there are lots
Speaker 4: of things that you could plan around that if you
Speaker 4: were a single parent, Beck, like if you're planning to
Speaker 4: become a single parent in the future, contributing a bit
Speaker 4: more to your super before you go on leave or
Speaker 4: even after. There's just a lot to do, but it
Speaker 4: could be very worthwhile looking into that. I think it's
Speaker 4: also really worthwhile thinking about ways to upskill while you're
Speaker 4: not working. Are you going to re enter the workplace
Speaker 4: even more skilled than when you left it? Smart means
Speaker 4: smart move though.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you could just YouTube a bunch of stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there are plenty of courses and certifications that
Speaker 4: you can do online, even at your own pace, to
Speaker 4: keep your skills sharp or learn something new. And this
Speaker 4: can make you obviously a more attractive candidate when you're
Speaker 4: ready to return to work and help aim for those
Speaker 4: I guess promotions and pay rises in the future that
Speaker 4: you might have missed during your break.
Speaker 3: That's a really good idea of v And then I guess, like,
Speaker 3: you know, obviously you will be working full time unless
Speaker 3: you have an equal parent. Hopefully they take some of
Speaker 3: that off your hands. I mean they should go it
Speaker 3: in like all of it's just hardbare. I totally agree. No,
Speaker 3: look great in the interviews if you're like, hey, while I.
Speaker 4: Was on leave, look what I did. I am a
Speaker 4: very motivated person. I'm a very big believer in hiring mums.
Speaker 4: Like I have a few mums on the team, and
Speaker 4: I just know they're the ones that are going to
Speaker 4: get it done back.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because they've gone from working twenty four hours
Speaker 3: a day.
Speaker 4: Back into being like, oh, you only want thirty eight
Speaker 4: hours from me, No worry.
Speaker 3: Easy, easy.
Speaker 4: Also like I just hire a working mom. I mean
Speaker 4: I gets a recruitment strategy around hiring a working mum
Speaker 4: and giving a work life flexibility to be able to
Speaker 4: pick the kids up, go to school, assembly, and then work. Anyway,
Speaker 4: we could do a research piece into my business, but
Speaker 4: that is not what we're talking about, Beck.
Speaker 3: No, that's true. But I do want to know, like
Speaker 3: how some ways that families can get support. Yes, so
Speaker 3: we were talking before you could claim some So currently
Speaker 3: in Australia, the Chugcare Subsidy or the CCS, is available
Speaker 3: to families who have a combined income under five hundred
Speaker 3: and thirty thousand dollars.
Speaker 4: That's so much money. Yeah, So, like I was talking
Speaker 4: before about, obviously an individual earning so much that you
Speaker 4: don't get the CCS right, and then obviously weighing up
Speaker 4: whether it's worth somebody else going back to work. Obviously
Speaker 4: that is a very unique situation and that must be nice.
Speaker 4: But when we're talking about this, I think we need
Speaker 4: to check our own privilege but also kind of keep
Speaker 4: our blinkers on it and stay in our own lane.
Speaker 4: Like let's say that there is a case study sitting
Speaker 4: over here and it's like George and Frankie right, like
Speaker 4: we've just made them up and Georgia and so much money,
Speaker 4: and Frankie, you know, has a good job, but isn't
Speaker 4: going to be able to claim anything. Do you think
Speaker 4: it's fair to then say, Beck, well, that woman because
Speaker 4: her partner earns bank and like takes home so much money,
Speaker 4: should you know, just stay home with the kids, or
Speaker 4: should they be spending heaps and heaps and heaps on childcare? Like,
Speaker 4: I just don't think that women should have to have
Speaker 4: the burden of choosing between either because it's their problem. Like,
Speaker 4: I get the conversation. I get the privilege in earning
Speaker 4: so much that it's like a financial conversation but also
Speaker 4: like a work life balance conversation. But I just still,
Speaker 4: at any income level, even if you are so financially secure,
Speaker 4: hate the idea that women are still choosing between these
Speaker 4: two things. Like it's the nineteen fifties, I know what
Speaker 4: the hell Like cool, like your partner owns heaps, but
Speaker 4: like I want to pave my own way too. I
Speaker 4: want to feel accomplished. I want to feel like a
Speaker 4: contributing member to this household. Like I know that it's
Speaker 4: not just about the money, but like I want to
Speaker 4: feel like a whole person. It's like me, right, beck
Speaker 4: I have said before I had a baby and after
Speaker 4: I had a I'm a working mum. Yeah I'm not
Speaker 4: going to be that mum who is a stay at
Speaker 4: home mum. Does that mean I'm less dedicated to my kids.
Speaker 4: Absolutely not. But I am the best version of me
Speaker 4: when I get to work, and I think other people
Speaker 4: in that situation should have the privilege of choice. But
Speaker 4: the CCS back to this, is a subsidy that the
Speaker 4: Australian government pays directly to your childcare provider to reduce
Speaker 4: the fees that you have to pay. So the amount
Speaker 4: you receive really depends on your income, the number of
Speaker 4: children that you have in care, and the age of
Speaker 4: your children, and the type of childcare that you use
Speaker 4: in the hours of approved activity that you undertake like
Speaker 4: work or approved study. So there is in the CCS
Speaker 4: an hourly rate cap that's based on your child's age
Speaker 4: and the type of care that they are in. So,
Speaker 4: for example, Beck, the hourly rate cap is fourteen dollars
Speaker 4: and twenty nine cents for kids under six in center
Speaker 4: based care. If your CCS rate is, say, for's sake,
Speaker 4: fifty percent, and you were paying for eleven hours of
Speaker 4: care at two hundred bucks, uh huh, so eighteen dollars
Speaker 4: and eighteen cents per hour, you'd only get fifty percent
Speaker 4: of the CCS on the first fourteen dollars and twenty
Speaker 4: nine cents per hour and you'd have to pay full
Speaker 4: fee for the rest of the time.
Speaker 3: Why goddamn minute. I am having trouble absorbing that. So
Speaker 3: that's ridiculous.
Speaker 4: That is it's nice. I think it's like I'm still
Speaker 4: paying full fees on top of that. So there's an
Speaker 4: online calculator and I'll make sure that this is in
Speaker 4: the show notes if you want to have a play
Speaker 4: with it. Not you specifically, Beck, but the community who
Speaker 4: it is relevant to. I feel like people are probably
Speaker 4: going to think this is really pervy as well. If
Speaker 4: you don't have kids, you're like, wait, that's how that
Speaker 4: system works.
Speaker 3: Yeah, But it's.
Speaker 4: At starting Blocks dot gov dot au, which is a
Speaker 4: government website about all things childcare, which can help you
Speaker 4: estimate your subsidy and how much you will pay based
Speaker 4: on specific center costs. Beck. Some proposed policy changes aim
Speaker 4: for more affordable care, including a campaign proposing ten dollars
Speaker 4: a day care for all Australians, but nothing's finalized yet.
Speaker 4: And do you want my two cents? Beck? Of course,
Speaker 4: So hold on, let's step back. So say you incur
Speaker 4: a cost for your work, you get to claim that
Speaker 4: on tax right. Yes, So for me to turn up
Speaker 4: at work today, Beck, I had to put my child
Speaker 4: into daycare. That's a work cost. Why can't I claim
Speaker 4: childcare as a part of my work costs. It's the
Speaker 4: cost of going to work, like my husband and I
Speaker 4: should be able to And this is not me being greedy.
Speaker 4: This is because this is what I want across the
Speaker 4: whole country for everybody. Ye Like, I want you to
Speaker 4: be able to claim your out of pocket costs, which
Speaker 4: we just articulated to you. You're paying fifty percent. Still,
Speaker 4: I want you to be able to claim that against
Speaker 4: your tax return. I want you to be able to say, well,
Speaker 4: this was a cost that I incurred in order for
Speaker 4: me to go to work and be a productive member
Speaker 4: of society. I should get the tax back on that
Speaker 4: if I'm paying for something that is very work related.
Speaker 4: I feel like this conversation needs to open up, and
Speaker 4: hopefully in the future it becomes like one of those
Speaker 4: conversations that we had a couple of years ago about
Speaker 4: how we used to get taxed on tampons. Oh obnoxious, Right,
Speaker 4: you're like, well, why are we being taxed on that? Yes?
Speaker 3: Soon, low down, I'll be like, wow, why couldn't we
Speaker 3: claim it. But these costs aren't taxed, as you're saying,
Speaker 3: which is there are some other ways that people can
Speaker 3: lower these costs. I assume yes there are.
Speaker 4: So first I'm going to tell you something and I'm
Speaker 4: going to sound like a broken record, but you need
Speaker 4: to do your budget and figure out what subsidy you
Speaker 4: are entitled to to help you make the decision that
Speaker 4: is right for you. Then I want you to do
Speaker 4: your research. So costs for different centers and services are
Speaker 4: going to vary greatly within the same suburb. So as
Speaker 4: I said before, like my cost was much of a muchness,
Speaker 4: but they did range, Like I did go and see
Speaker 4: a couple that I was like, okay, Like I am providing,
Speaker 4: like you know, formula and nappiers and it's one sixty
Speaker 4: a day. But when you calculate it all out, it
Speaker 4: all comes out in the wash when you know, adding
Speaker 4: things in. But we want to shop around. We want
Speaker 4: to make sure that we know what we're paying for
Speaker 4: and its relevance in our community. So starting blocks, the
Speaker 4: website I mentioned earlier is going to be able to
Speaker 4: help you with this. I also want you to weigh
Speaker 4: up the price of childcare closer to home versus closer
Speaker 4: to work. So if you live in the suburbs, childcare
Speaker 4: actually might be cheaper than if you opt for an
Speaker 4: inner city service where rent could be factored into the
Speaker 4: price that you're paying, right, and having care close to
Speaker 4: home instead of your work could actually be convenient too,
Speaker 4: if you don't have to go to the office, but
Speaker 4: you still want to put your kid into childcare during
Speaker 4: the day. Maybe your boss is nice. Unless you work
Speaker 4: from home, that's cover, but having a kid at home
Speaker 4: not ideal. One of my friend's workplaces has just brought
Speaker 4: out this entire policy back side note, and they send
Speaker 4: out this big email that obviously I got sent screenshots
Speaker 4: of because Tea in the friend group chat of course
Speaker 4: of how if you're working from home you're not allowed
Speaker 4: to have your kids home at the same time as well.
Speaker 4: What isn't that wild?
Speaker 3: What the to allow?
Speaker 4: And there's like so much backlash because I can kind
Speaker 4: of understand that if you had a full time parent
Speaker 4: working for you, but they were also like full time
Speaker 4: caring for a child, you're not going to get the
Speaker 4: dedicated hours out of them, give or take. Like there's
Speaker 4: a very big conversation about that, but it included like
Speaker 4: if your partner was home with the kids. They see
Speaker 4: that as too much of a distraction. Isn't that insane?
Speaker 3: Ridiculous?
Speaker 4: Wouldn't work for me?
Speaker 3: No, that's ridiculous.
Speaker 4: If you have the option as well, Beck, you could
Speaker 4: ask your support network. But again, that's a privilege that
Speaker 4: so many of us in our community now don't have.
Speaker 4: Like we just don't have the family support that we
Speaker 4: used to have. Could a family member potentially help out,
Speaker 4: or if you've got friends who might be able to
Speaker 4: help out with childcare? Not everyone can do this, but
Speaker 4: we are so lucky. I think you know when you're
Speaker 4: just like, I'm married into it. You probably have not
Speaker 4: had this thought because you're not married yet. But like
Speaker 4: I remember being like one, I've messed up. I've married
Speaker 4: into a family of runners.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, it's a problem.
Speaker 4: There's a problem. Like they run for fun on holiday,
Speaker 4: on holiday, they run, don't like any type of event
Speaker 4: Mother's Day. Wow, we're running the Mother's Day Classic. Sorry,
Speaker 4: we can't run a Mother's Day Like my sister in law,
Speaker 4: Holy moly, Boston Marathon, Like wow, be for real, like incredible,
Speaker 4: she's training so hard. But like it's impressive, you know what,
Speaker 4: I make the pancakes at home. But the one thing
Speaker 4: that I did marry into was a family with great support. Like,
Speaker 4: oh my gosh, Steve's mum, She's like, so do I
Speaker 4: get Harvey on Friday? Like? Can I look after him?
Speaker 4: You let me know, I'll drive to you and pick
Speaker 4: him up. I'm like, you are doing the most, but
Speaker 4: that's not something that everybody gets, right, Like that is
Speaker 4: absolutely a privilege, but worthy of sharing. But I think
Speaker 4: also you could ask yourself, Beck, is there an alternative
Speaker 4: to center based care that you could choose, like maybe
Speaker 4: a family day care, or like nanny sharing, or like
Speaker 4: community co ops, occasional care, or even employer supported care.
Speaker 4: I've got a friend who has three kids, and she
Speaker 4: found that having an O pair, which sounds really bougie,
Speaker 4: actually worked best for them financially. They've got a spare
Speaker 4: room in there house, and by providing room and board,
Speaker 4: they deduct that from what they pay their O pair,
Speaker 4: which ends up costing them like two hundred and fifty
Speaker 4: bucks a week. Oh, before I had a baby, I
Speaker 4: thought that like an O pair, that's what rich people have. Yes,
Speaker 4: nanny's rich people, But like you're telling me right now
Speaker 4: that if I had my child in full time care
Speaker 4: Monday to Friday, nine till five, it's gonna cost me
Speaker 4: fifty thousand dollars post tax. Honestly, once I have two
Speaker 4: kids or maybe even three, like maybe a nanny makes
Speaker 4: more sense.
Speaker 3: Totally.
Speaker 4: Again, a lot of financial privilege talking. But we're just
Speaker 4: cycling through the options that are there, you know, going
Speaker 4: back to this example of my friend, that's way less
Speaker 4: than having kids in traditional daycare, kids in traditional daycare
Speaker 4: for her to put her kids in that daycare before
Speaker 4: the CCS subsidy one hundred and fifty grand a year.
Speaker 3: That's so our ready before.
Speaker 4: Real daycare costs more than private school.
Speaker 3: Back is outraged.
Speaker 4: I can't deal with it. But they've also found that
Speaker 4: with a no pair, the kids are being exposed to
Speaker 4: less germs. I have a sniffley nose consistently now, so
Speaker 4: they're never stuck paying for care that they don't use
Speaker 4: when the kids are under the weather. Well, it's yeah,
Speaker 4: all those little things about Another thing I want you
Speaker 4: to do as well is check with your employer. Will
Speaker 4: they allow some flexibility in the days and hours that
Speaker 4: you work to help juggle your kids a bit better.
Speaker 4: Can you say, maybe work from home or have like
Speaker 4: adjusted work hours so you can do daycare pickup next
Speaker 4: When you have made your decision and you're like, you
Speaker 4: know what daycares for me? Put your child's name down early, Beck,
Speaker 4: Oh my god, I did not realize the wait list.
Speaker 4: So I put Halvey's name down when I was twenty
Speaker 4: weeks pregnant. Twenty week's pregnant.
Speaker 2: Great.
Speaker 4: We got a text in July saying hey, there's going
Speaker 4: to be a spot in August. It was six months old.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's hectic.
Speaker 4: Be for real, Like that took almost a year to
Speaker 4: get him into daycare and he didn't even exist yet.
Speaker 4: Like I didn't know what gender we were having him.
Speaker 4: We didn't even have a name. Baby Divine was down
Speaker 4: on the weight list. Be for real, But put your
Speaker 4: kid's name down early. In a lot of this country,
Speaker 4: childcare centers have weight lists, so having your child's name
Speaker 4: on a few lists earlier can mean a bit more
Speaker 4: flexibility To choose a daycare that suits your lifestyle and
Speaker 4: your budget, and then read the fine print for a
Speaker 4: childcare service before you sign up and know the terms
Speaker 4: and conditions, including any fees and any charges that might
Speaker 4: apply if you need to cancel good call and then money. Obviously,
Speaker 4: don't forget your sendling CCS forms. Get them in as
Speaker 4: early as possible. You're not going to believe this, Beck.
Speaker 4: I have heard horror stories of families having to pay
Speaker 4: the full childcare fees out of pocket while they're waiting
Speaker 4: for their claims to be approved. No back pay, No
Speaker 4: back pay because it goes to the childcare center. So
Speaker 4: remember how I said, oh wait when we were talking
Speaker 4: about how the CCS gets paid to the childcare center.
Speaker 4: If you're not approved, the childcare center is going to
Speaker 4: invoice you personally, Beck, and you have to pay in full.
Speaker 4: And then when the childcare center gets paid, they're like,
Speaker 4: no worries, We've put this credit on your account because
Speaker 4: they can't give you the cash right now. You might
Speaker 4: have a credit, but you've had to pay full.
Speaker 3: I see exactly.
Speaker 4: So make sure that you're getting those forms in a
Speaker 4: SAP and when the back pay finally does come through,
Speaker 4: do a bit of a budget so that you don't
Speaker 4: end up in that situation again, but also so that
Speaker 4: you don't feel as stung like it's stressful, and I
Speaker 4: think it's really important to be aware of that. And
Speaker 4: not for you, but like hypothetically speaking, you didn't hear
Speaker 4: this from me, But if your claim's taking too long,
Speaker 4: I have heard on the grape line that you call them,
Speaker 4: you asked to speak to the complaints line, and it
Speaker 4: can speed things up. So sometimes in that situation, I
Speaker 4: have heard of people getting approval the next day. Sometimes
Speaker 4: it does literally pay out to complain. We're not going
Speaker 4: to get on the phone and they do it or
Speaker 4: threaten or do anything. We're just gonna hollo kind. So
Speaker 4: I would really like to talk to your complaints line
Speaker 4: and what a coincidence it got escalated. And if you're
Speaker 4: financially struggling, be sure to mention it because they might
Speaker 4: be able to push your claim through even faster if
Speaker 4: you're experiencing financial hardship, which is obviously especially right now,
Speaker 4: taken really seriously, honestly from my experience, if you call
Speaker 4: first thing in the morning or like right before they close,
Speaker 4: they answer pretty quick. Right before they close.
Speaker 3: Everybody is on yeah you know what.
Speaker 4: I actually don't call places if I'm like, oh it's
Speaker 4: like four fifty nah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no one's calling it four fifty. If they close
Speaker 3: it five.
Speaker 4: Or it's like you're sneaky, but be really nice. We
Speaker 4: can make this really quick, but like we need to
Speaker 4: get paid, so so do we do? Like sorry, but
Speaker 4: also not sorry. Fix the system, don't hate the player.
Speaker 4: I hate the game exactly, exactly, all right, Well, that
Speaker 4: is a very good tip. And look, we know how
Speaker 4: tough navigating childcare costs can be. It's not easy, and
Speaker 4: at the end of the day, there's actually no one
Speaker 4: size fits all approach. I wish there was. But with
Speaker 4: good information, I hope that it can become a little
Speaker 4: bit more manageable for you and you can feel a
Speaker 4: little bit more empowered. And hopefully by me sharing what
Speaker 4: I'm up to, it doesn't necessarily mean you have to
Speaker 4: do it. But Beck, I've had so many messages from
Speaker 4: mums being like, thank you for talking about putting your
Speaker 4: kid in daycare early, Like I felt so judged, you know,
Speaker 4: I felt like it was a bad mum. Or it
Speaker 4: felt like, you know, I was doing the wrong thing
Speaker 4: for my kid. Like if that is, you just know.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 4: Harvey loves it. He has the best time.
Speaker 1: Beck.
Speaker 4: I dropped him off to daycare this morning. He is
Speaker 4: six months old, so like he lights up when he
Speaker 4: sees faces sometimes his care and he just went, that's
Speaker 4: my friend. He immediately was like, oh, I'm here, I'm
Speaker 4: gonna have a good day. Like I just know that
Speaker 4: he's probably getting more stimulation than I could give him
Speaker 4: at home. And like then when we get home, I
Speaker 4: know we can't talk back yet he's only six months old,
Speaker 4: but I tell him all about my day and I
Speaker 4: ask him about his day, and I just feel like
Speaker 4: this is going to really work for us. And I
Speaker 4: feel like there's so much judgment in this space.
Speaker 3: My god, moms really copy it, I know, but.
Speaker 4: We're all just doing the best that we can. Like
Speaker 4: we're just all out here doing the best for our family,
Speaker 4: the best for our community, and trying to also support ourselves.
Speaker 4: Were always told, oh, you can't pull from an empty cup,
Speaker 4: and then when I say that I'm filling my cup up,
Speaker 4: You're like, don't do that.
Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 3: I feel like, if a mom's not emotionally or physically
Speaker 3: abusing a child, let them be, let them do.
Speaker 4: If your kid's happy, slagh, they trying to do the best. Also,
Speaker 4: I call this like small steps of micro feminism. Next
Speaker 4: time you run into a dad and they're like not
Speaker 4: with their kids. Be like who's looking after the kids
Speaker 4: and just see them squirm.
Speaker 3: Yeah really fine, yes, great idea.
Speaker 4: All right, Well, have a good day, guys. We will
Speaker 4: see you next week. I hope that this has been
Speaker 4: an enlightening.
Speaker 3: Chat, certainly for me. Who do you? Absolutely do you?
Speaker 3: We support you, you do it a great job. You are.
Speaker 4: Have a good week, guys.
Speaker 3: Hi, guys.
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Speaker 3: Mm hmm