WEBVTT - My Favourite Tip: Liane Moriarty - How simple tech tools can influence your mindset 0:00:01.000 --> 0:00:04.040 When I think about knowledge work and how to do 0:00:04.120 --> 0:00:07.720 it well, I'm sure I'm not alone in picturing the 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.639 novelist bent over a desk in the dead of night, 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.960 burning the midnight oil, sucking on the end of a 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.119 pen as she tries to break that crucial last act 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:23.040 of her story. And I know I'm not alone in 0:00:23.079 --> 0:00:26.639 my fascination with the schedules of great writers from history. 0:00:27.320 --> 0:00:30.480 I mean, whole books are dedicated to examining the daily 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:34.680 routines of everyone from Ernest Hemingway to Virginia Wolf. We're 0:00:34.720 --> 0:00:38.680 obsessed with the image of the writer and insatiably curious 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.680 about how they brought are culture's greatest works into being, 0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:48.760 and this definitely applies to the modern writer. Leanne Moriarty 0:00:49.080 --> 0:00:52.960 is the author behind Big Little Lies, Nine Perfect Strangers, 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:57.440 and The Husband's Secret, among many others. She's the first 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:02.400 Australian author ever today debut a novel at number one 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:06.920 on the New York Times Bestsellers list, and the Emmy 0:01:07.200 --> 0:01:11.520 winning HBO adaptation of Big Little Eyes, co produced by 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:16.040 and starring Nicole Kidman and Rhys Rieverspoon, propelled her to 0:01:16.160 --> 0:01:20.119 international stardom. And also, let's not forget the more recent 0:01:20.160 --> 0:01:26.759 Amazon adaptation of Nine Perfect Strangers. But does that romantic 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:30.559 image of the solitary artist ring true in the modern 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.760 day for Leanne? And how does she stay focused in 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.360 our age of distraction? Is she using modern tools or 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.640 does she look to the past for scheduling inspiration? And 0:01:42.720 --> 0:01:46.800 how does Leanne tame her inner critic in her head? 0:01:51.440 --> 0:01:55.320 My name is doctor Romantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist 0:01:55.320 --> 0:01:58.760 and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. And this 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.800 is how I work, a show about how to help 0:02:01.840 --> 0:02:06.480 you do your best work. Leanne has achieved such an 0:02:06.480 --> 0:02:09.520 incredible amount as an author, I mean maybe more than 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:14.080 any other modern Australian author. So with their latest book, 0:02:14.320 --> 0:02:18.360 Apple's Never Fall, hitting bookshelves last month, how does she 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:20.320 think about what's next? 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.800 Well, it does take me a while to get back 0:02:23.800 --> 0:02:28.960 into writing mode again, So I definitely I can't be 0:02:29.040 --> 0:02:31.799 the sort of person who does an interview and then 0:02:31.919 --> 0:02:34.760 goes and sits down and writes, because I feel like 0:02:34.800 --> 0:02:38.720 they're two different parts of me that are working. 0:02:40.000 --> 0:02:40.240 You know. 0:02:41.639 --> 0:02:45.840 One is I'm I am a writer and right now 0:02:45.880 --> 0:02:49.919 I feel I'm performing as a writer. I'm too self conscious. 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.040 If I sat down and wrote now, because I will 0:02:53.040 --> 0:02:56.240 have talked about, oh, I don't plan my books, and 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:58.520 then I'll sit down and think, oh, look at me 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:02.359 not planning my books. I can't stand it. I need 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:06.040 to have a little break in between this side of things. 0:03:06.040 --> 0:03:10.280 So once I've finished, you know, the publicity tour for 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.760 a new book, I have a few weeks off and 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:17.320 then I do none of these sort of events or 0:03:17.600 --> 0:03:20.920 podcasts or anything, which I know is not the case 0:03:21.000 --> 0:03:23.280 for all authors. Some authors seem to be able to 0:03:23.880 --> 0:03:30.359 simultaneously handle handle both sides. But I need to stop 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:32.840 because when I write, I need to lose my sense 0:03:32.880 --> 0:03:37.440 of self. And so I guess what I'll do is, 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:43.440 once I've finished, we'll eventually by myself a special, very 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:47.120 fancy new notebook, which I'll take a lot of time 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:51.360 choosing one of those expensive ones, you know, the gorgeous 0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:55.240 ones with the really lovely covers, and you know, to 0:03:55.280 --> 0:03:57.240 be honest, I don't actually do all that much with 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.320 the notepad. It seems to be part of the pros. 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.400 I like the thought of myself going to cafes and 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:08.760 writing notes in it, or going to special locations, but 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.840 really only write a few pages, and then that seems 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:15.160 to be enough to get me going, and then I 0:04:15.280 --> 0:04:19.840 just sit at my computer. I can't do I can't 0:04:19.880 --> 0:04:23.000 do the jk rowling thing and write it all, write 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:27.320 it at cafes. I have two sisters who are authors, 0:04:27.760 --> 0:04:31.000 and both of them can do that, and I try 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:33.200 because I love the idea of it, but I seem 0:04:33.240 --> 0:04:38.160 to need to have my keyboard and my monitor in 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:38.640 front of me. 0:04:39.440 --> 0:04:43.000 Let's dig into your writing process a bit more and 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:46.800 tell me what does a typical day look like when 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:48.520 you are mid book. 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:53.719 Well, I don't have I don't have too many typical 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:57.680 days in the way that I've heard some authors describe them, 0:04:57.720 --> 0:05:00.279 where they say I get up at this time and 0:05:00.360 --> 0:05:02.880 I drink this particular drink, and I walk here and 0:05:02.920 --> 0:05:06.400 then I sit down and do two hours before ten am. 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:13.200 I don't have a strip schedule like that at all. Yes, So, 0:05:13.240 --> 0:05:15.440 which is why when I told my husband I was 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:18.800 speaking on this podcast, he found it hilarious that I 0:05:18.839 --> 0:05:25.159 would have anything to say about being adding productivity. And 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:29.800 I do have two young children, so I work within 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.240 the school day, but every day feels a little bit 0:05:33.240 --> 0:05:37.960 different depending on on what's going on with them or 0:05:38.000 --> 0:05:42.000 even how I feel that day, so I did. When 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:47.120 the children were babies, I used to have a babysitter 0:05:47.120 --> 0:05:51.240 who would come for three hours at a time, and 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:56.080 I did find that before having the babysitter, compared for 0:05:56.320 --> 0:06:01.719 before children, I became more productive because I would only 0:06:01.760 --> 0:06:03.720 have her for the three hours. I would have to 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:08.159 close the office doore, and I couldn't come out for 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.919 another cup of tea because that would be embarrassing because 0:06:10.960 --> 0:06:15.480 she'd know that I had just had one. And so 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:18.880 I do think in my mind I've still kept up 0:06:19.000 --> 0:06:22.720 since then, and I think I wrote really well in 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:27.800 that time because time was so precious and because I 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.159 was paying somebody to so I knew I had to work. 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:35.919 I couldn't just I don't know, serve the internet. But 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:38.440 so ever since then, I've started to think of my 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:41.080 writing as being in a three hour shift, so to 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:44.240 think I'll do it. I'll do a shift now, so 0:06:46.120 --> 0:06:48.600 you know it might be ten to one. 0:06:49.320 --> 0:06:52.360 I do do. I use the. 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:56.080 Freedom, the program Freedom, which I'm sure you know about 0:06:56.080 --> 0:07:00.560 that I've seen it in lots of authors acknowledgments that 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:04.800 it restricts your access to the Internet, and. 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:07.440 Can I actually ask how you use Freedom? So for 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.240 those that are not familiar with it. I think the 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:12.240 website is Freedom dot two and there's a free version, 0:07:12.280 --> 0:07:15.560 and you can block websites and you can block software 0:07:15.600 --> 0:07:17.520 at certain times of day. So can you tell me 0:07:17.600 --> 0:07:19.520 how you specifically use freedom? 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:25.600 Well, well, one embarrassing problems. I thought that freedom restricted everything. 0:07:27.040 --> 0:07:30.600 I thought it didn't let me get email either. And 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:35.200 I believed this for a long time. So because I 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:40.600 believed it, I therefore didn't check my email. So I 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:44.520 would So the way I used it was just And 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:47.120 what was wonderful about it was that it makes me 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.760 feel like it's programming me to write. So you could 0:07:50.840 --> 0:07:54.280 put in a certain amount of time that you Internet 0:07:54.280 --> 0:07:58.640 would be restricted so you could program and I'd say 0:07:58.800 --> 0:08:02.200 normally my three hour or even I might think, especially 0:08:02.200 --> 0:08:04.840 if I'm at the beginning of a book where it's 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.880 hard to get into the flow, so I think, okay, 0:08:08.040 --> 0:08:12.080 just write for an hour. But for whatever amount of time, 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:14.840 I think, wonderful, I'm going I know, I'm going to 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:18.080 write for that amount of time. But yes, then I 0:08:18.320 --> 0:08:20.720 discovered I think emails still. 0:08:20.520 --> 0:08:21.440 Coming through. 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.880 One so new that I was still getting emailed, then 0:08:26.120 --> 0:08:29.400 there was nothing to stop me from checking email. It's 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:33.040 very embarrassing. I actually wrote to the people who make 0:08:33.080 --> 0:08:35.960 it and said please, it used to stop me from 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:41.160 getting and they said, no, we can't do that. Sorry. Yes, 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:49.240 and it's worse these days since the pandemic. You know, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:54.840 the habit of doom scrolling through your phone, so I 0:08:54.920 --> 0:08:57.360 need the phone not to be near me too. 0:08:57.840 --> 0:09:01.559 Now I've heard that you have a beautiful ornate egg 0:09:01.679 --> 0:09:04.679 timer to help with productivity. Can you tell me about that. 0:09:05.600 --> 0:09:09.520 Yes, it's just a gift that a friend gave me, 0:09:09.920 --> 0:09:13.120 and I think it goes for thirty minutes, So I 0:09:13.320 --> 0:09:15.720 just use that, especially when I'm. 0:09:15.559 --> 0:09:18.000 At the beginning of a book. So it's fine. 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:21.760 Once a book has momentum, which seems to happen about 0:09:22.880 --> 0:09:26.079 maybe a third of the way through, I don't need 0:09:26.120 --> 0:09:29.280 it as much because I can I know my characters, 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.280 and I can see where the story's going. But in 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:35.280 the beginning of a new novel, I'm always flailing about. 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.760 There's a lot of a lot of self loathing and 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:44.520 just I can't do this. And sometimes even when you 0:09:44.559 --> 0:09:46.240 sit down to write a book in the beginning, I 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.559 feel almost silly. You know, what are you doing here? 0:09:49.640 --> 0:09:53.440 Making up a story that feels foolish. So the point 0:09:53.440 --> 0:09:56.040 of the egg timer is just to say I will 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:59.760 write and for the next until that last grain of 0:09:59.760 --> 0:10:02.679 set and falls through, and I won't think about it. 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:03.400 I will have no. 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:09.719 You know, what's what's the word critical? I can't think 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:12.520 of the word. But I done self talk, just the 0:10:12.559 --> 0:10:18.120 self talk, just to I can't think I'm trying to say, 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.160 but that it's just just right and it doesn't matter 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:24.760 if it's bad, if it's good, it doesn't matter. You 0:10:24.880 --> 0:10:28.000 just must write for the next and it's thirty minutes, 0:10:28.400 --> 0:10:31.559 and that often does finally gets you get you going. 0:10:31.640 --> 0:10:34.640 So often the first few lines are this is stupid, 0:10:34.720 --> 0:10:38.600 this is you know, just what ever anything? And then 0:10:38.920 --> 0:10:43.319 finally it's always that losing your sense of self where 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.400 that you just find and you know, athletes talk about it, 0:10:46.400 --> 0:10:50.800 getting in the zone and meditators talk about it, and 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.800 it's and that I think it's just called flow when 0:10:53.840 --> 0:10:58.079 you finally achieve that, which is the most glorious. 0:10:59.000 --> 0:11:02.760 Feeling of aught, which is basically why I write. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.400 When you look up from the computer and you sort 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:07.680 of blink because you've been lost in that world. 0:11:09.160 --> 0:11:13.040 Have you found any tricks to get yourself in to 0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.040 flow more quickly or more predictably. 0:11:18.080 --> 0:11:24.480 No only to just to no I want them, no 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.840 only just to write the thing I do. I'm not 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:31.480 a planner, so I don't know what's going to happen 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:36.880 with my books. So that means it's a really fun 0:11:36.920 --> 0:11:38.720 way to write, because I sit down at my desk 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:41.840 each day and think, I wonder what's going to happen today. 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:45.640 But it's also a scary, scary way to write, because 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:48.920 I sit down and think, I hope something happens today. 0:11:50.160 --> 0:11:53.800 So the thing I do is I often edit a 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.160 little bit of what I've done. 0:11:54.960 --> 0:11:58.400 The day before because it's too. 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:01.600 Scary to just start write something new. I have to 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:05.200 trick myself into it. So if I'm just fixing up 0:12:05.200 --> 0:12:08.920 a couple of sentences of what I've written the day before, 0:12:09.160 --> 0:12:13.000 then I can sort of side all my way into 0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:13.680 the story. 0:12:14.240 --> 0:12:19.040 So for you, how does the plot or the structure 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.240 of a book emerge? Because something I find about all 0:12:23.280 --> 0:12:27.079 of your books is that they've got such intricate and 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:31.560 gripping plots, but also such well drawn out characters. And 0:12:31.640 --> 0:12:34.600 I'm so surprised that for hear you talk about how 0:12:34.640 --> 0:12:37.040 you sit down at the beginning, and you don't quite 0:12:37.080 --> 0:12:39.920 know where it's going to go. So how does that evolve? 0:12:41.440 --> 0:12:46.720 Yeah, so I always just start with a premise, and so, 0:12:46.960 --> 0:12:50.840 for example, with Apples Never for this new book, I 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:57.880 knew that I would have the mother disappearing. I knew 0:12:57.920 --> 0:13:01.920 that I would have somebody knocking on the door. So 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.480 I knew I had had an elderly mother who disappears, 0:13:05.200 --> 0:13:09.560 and that the father is obviously the chief suspect her 0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:14.120 in her possible murder. And I also had this idea 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:18.440 from an article I've read, even though it's not a 0:13:18.440 --> 0:13:22.760 particularly unique literary device to have a stranger appear, but 0:13:22.800 --> 0:13:25.720 I'd actually read an article about an elderly couple who 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:30.240 had a young woman knock on their door late at night, 0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:32.760 and they let her in and let her stay the night. 0:13:32.840 --> 0:13:37.240 So I knew I wanted that, and then I just 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.240 but I have no idea at the beginning of the novel. 0:13:40.280 --> 0:13:44.280 I don't know where she's disappeared. I don't know how 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:46.800 this young woman who knocks on the door, how she's 0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:50.160 going to connect. But at least it's enough to start 0:13:50.400 --> 0:13:53.520 my first chapter. And so while I'm writing my first chapter, 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:57.160 I'm just constantly thinking, so maybe it's this, or maybe 0:13:57.200 --> 0:14:00.959 it's that, And then I I can see a tiny 0:14:01.000 --> 0:14:04.000 way ahead, so I think, well, I know, so she's 0:14:04.040 --> 0:14:07.520 staying the night, so what will happen during the night. 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.440 And then as I'm writing the characters, I'm getting to 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:13.840 know them. So I always miss my characters from my 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.160 previous book when I'm writing a new book. So with 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:20.280 this one, I missed my nine perfect Strangers because I 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.800 knew them so well. So in the beginning of a novel, 0:14:23.840 --> 0:14:30.200 my characters feel very wooden and cartoonish. But then through 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.400 the process of writing them, so I'm trying different things. 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.960 Then about a third of the way in, then I think, OK, 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:40.600 now I know this person. They start to move for me. 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:46.640 So there's a slightly magical process that happens where you know, 0:14:46.680 --> 0:14:51.440 I might have taken one attribute a real person's attribute. So, 0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:54.360 for example, with big little Eyes, with the character of Madeline, 0:14:54.560 --> 0:14:59.040 I can always remember that I wrote down perpetually outraged 0:14:59.240 --> 0:15:05.200 like so and so, and also shimmery, shimmery, sparkly girl 0:15:05.360 --> 0:15:08.520 like so and so and so. I had those two attributes, 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.320 and then I started writing her, and then she became Madeline. 0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:14.720 He was, in fact nothing like either of those two 0:15:15.520 --> 0:15:19.960 real people. But it sometimes helps to have just a 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:23.680 particular attribute. So I would say often will take real 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:27.880 people's attributes, but I've never ever taken an entire personality. 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:32.200 They become their own people. So once I know my characters, 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.240 then I can go back to the beginning and think, well, 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.640 she wouldn't have said this, or she wouldn't have responded 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:40.920 like this, or I've got particular speech patterns that she 0:15:41.080 --> 0:15:44.520 might use, and I can put those in and in 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.560 the same way. Once I know what's going to happen, 0:15:47.680 --> 0:15:53.280 so I know where she is, I knew worked out 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.400 who this woman was who knocked on the door. Then 0:15:56.480 --> 0:15:59.040 I can go back and change things. I can put 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:03.800 in my red hairing, I can signpost certain things. I 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.680 always have a separate document called things I need to fix, 0:16:07.960 --> 0:16:09.120 because I am working it. 0:16:09.080 --> 0:16:10.040 Out as I go along. 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:13.800 So you know, now you know, in this book, I 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:17.000 had the characters Stan. He doesn't own a mobile phone, 0:16:17.160 --> 0:16:20.800 which I needed him not to own a mobile phone, 0:16:20.920 --> 0:16:22.880 but I didn't know that in the beginning. So in 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.080 the beginning I have him lying in bed looking through 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:27.880 his mobile phone. So obviously I'm going to have to 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.560 go back and fix that. So I never want to 0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:35.840 give the impression that even though I don't plan and 0:16:35.880 --> 0:16:40.640 that it just sort of flows from me making perfect 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.200 sense somehow along the way. It's just I don't know. 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.240 I'm working it out as I go along, and then 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:48.960 I'm going back and rearranging the jigsaw pieces. 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:53.520 That's fascinating. Now, I want to know with the premise 0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:58.160 I mean, and I'm just I'm so intrigued by what 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:01.840 you know in your head when you start writing a 0:17:01.880 --> 0:17:05.600 book and just how much evolves. How do you know 0:17:05.720 --> 0:17:08.200 that you've got the right premise to begin with. 0:17:09.520 --> 0:17:12.639 I think I just know if I'm interested enough that 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:16.400 I keep thinking about it, so because I know I've 0:17:16.440 --> 0:17:18.720 had other things where they've been in my head, and 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:23.959 then if it doesn't stay with me, then I let 0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:26.680 it go. But if you know, if I'm just going 0:17:26.720 --> 0:17:29.320 for a walk and I keep thinking of that idea, 0:17:30.040 --> 0:17:34.640 And I did just find that idea interesting of how 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:38.560 would you feel if your mother? So how would I 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.840 feel as an adult if my mother had gone missing 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.560 and people were saying they believed my father had murdered 0:17:45.600 --> 0:17:49.000 my mother? And how And I found that interesting and 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:54.040 also thinking about how would my siblings feel, so that 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:59.960 then gives you each sibling can have a different perspective 0:18:00.240 --> 0:18:03.760 and then you can have factions form. So just if 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:08.119 it keeps unfurling in my mind, then I think, I 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:09.080 think I'll. 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:09.320 Go with this. 0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.680 But it's terrifying because there and I think, I hope 0:18:12.720 --> 0:18:14.520 it's going I hope it's going to work. 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:22.120 We will be back very soon talking about how Leanne 0:18:22.200 --> 0:18:25.600 keeps herself motivated when she's working on a book, the 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:29.720 celebration rituals that she has after typing the words the end, 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:35.400 and also how she manages critical self talk. Now, if 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:40.720 you are interested in consuming more content from me, maybe 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:45.240 follow me on the socials because I post various bits 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:48.680 of hopefully interesting things there. You can find me on 0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:53.720 LinkedIn just search for Amantha INBA and on Instagram find 0:18:53.760 --> 0:18:58.960 me at Amantha I, and also on Twitter at Amantha. Now, 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.280 how do you stay motivated when writing a book because 0:19:02.320 --> 0:19:06.240 it's such a big, long process, and particularly you mentioned 0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:10.120 that the first third where you're still figuring things out, 0:19:10.200 --> 0:19:14.760 can be really kind of daunting. How are you maintaining motivation? 0:19:16.080 --> 0:19:16.920 Yeah, it's horrible. 0:19:16.920 --> 0:19:19.760 In the beginning, there is a lot of flailing about 0:19:19.880 --> 0:19:23.439 trying to trying to make myself work. There are just 0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:28.920 little things, little rewards. I do have a notebook where 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:32.000 I write down my word count for each day, so 0:19:32.080 --> 0:19:35.440 you know, in the if I'd written with an old 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:39.320 fashioned typewriter, you'd see your page, your pile of pages 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:42.439 growing next to you. But in this case, all I 0:19:42.480 --> 0:19:46.760 can do is write down my word count. So I'm 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.159 constantly counting words because that's your pile of pages that 0:19:50.200 --> 0:19:54.639 you can see growing. So I do tend to this 0:19:54.680 --> 0:19:58.000 is sort of embarrassing. I write down little like, you know, 0:19:58.280 --> 0:20:02.600 a thousand words today, well, and a little praise for 0:20:02.720 --> 0:20:05.320 myself for a little stars you did. 0:20:05.359 --> 0:20:13.199 Well, what else are you doing to encourage yourself along 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:13.600 the way. 0:20:15.760 --> 0:20:18.480 Well, I think that's I think that's just in that 0:20:18.560 --> 0:20:23.160 beginning bit. It really is just seeing the word count. 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.320 But of course, now I've got a contract, so now 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:33.160 I've got a deadline, and I'm well behaved, so i'm 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:38.080 you know, I want to I want to please my publishers, 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:43.639 so it is my job. With my first book, I 0:20:43.760 --> 0:20:48.199 wrote it as part of a master's degree, and in 0:20:48.240 --> 0:20:51.160 a way I often wondered would I have been able 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:55.679 to have written my first book without that structure because 0:20:55.720 --> 0:21:00.399 I was just trying to impress the teacher and the 0:21:00.480 --> 0:21:04.359 other students. So it was wonderful having other students to 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.800 give feedback each each week. So perhaps you could have 0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.199 achieved the same thing with a writer's group, but I 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:17.119 was you know, that was expensive, that that degree, so 0:21:17.119 --> 0:21:20.640 I was paying money for it, and so it made 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:23.000 it feel like I want to I want to please 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:25.760 the teacher, I want to show off to the other students. 0:21:25.840 --> 0:21:29.320 So that kept me going to get me through. But 0:21:29.520 --> 0:21:32.800 now now it's the contract that does it. But yeah, 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:36.879 it's hard because it's a funny job in the you know, 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:39.600 you could I could say tomorrow I will do nothing 0:21:39.880 --> 0:21:42.560 and that will make no difference, so I won't get 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.000 into trouble for that and the next day and the 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.600 next day. But there's a certain number of days where 0:21:48.640 --> 0:21:52.160 you better, you know, get onto it because otherwise you'll 0:21:53.520 --> 0:21:54.600 you'll miss your deadline. 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.600 Yeah, how about when you finish your book? Do you 0:21:57.680 --> 0:22:02.800 have any rituals to celebrate or mark the end of 0:22:02.840 --> 0:22:03.360 a book? 0:22:04.800 --> 0:22:09.200 Only that I go to a particular restaurant which I'm 0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:11.600 not allowed to go to at the moment with Sydney 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:17.920 in lockdown and have a particular cocktail or two. And yeah, 0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:22.040 that's just it's really just that dinner. It's the best, 0:22:22.320 --> 0:22:25.320 it is the best feeling. And I always write the 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:29.520 words the end when I finished, even though the words 0:22:29.560 --> 0:22:33.080 the end don't actually appear in a novel. I like 0:22:33.440 --> 0:22:37.880 writing the end, and I never I know some authors, 0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:45.280 do you know they do different drafts, whereas I'm redrafting 0:22:45.720 --> 0:22:51.120 as I go. So therefore I often might hold off 0:22:51.400 --> 0:22:56.439 writing that last paragraph or that last scene because I 0:22:56.520 --> 0:22:59.880 really want to be able to say the end once 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:02.000 I've written it. I don't, you know, my things I 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.399 need to fix document, I don't I want all that done. 0:23:05.640 --> 0:23:11.119 So yeah, so it's a bit. It's just allowing me 0:23:11.200 --> 0:23:15.760 that thrill, the thrill of goosebumps when you write the end. 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:21.560 Love that now, I imagine with every book that you write, 0:23:22.040 --> 0:23:24.920 and just the huge success that they've all had, that 0:23:25.880 --> 0:23:29.800 sense of pressure when you start the next piece of 0:23:29.840 --> 0:23:32.120 work that you're going to create, like must I don't 0:23:32.119 --> 0:23:35.639 know if that's cumulative, but I want to know what's like, 0:23:35.920 --> 0:23:37.840 how do you manage that pressure? 0:23:39.560 --> 0:23:42.919 Well, I guess I just have to put it all aside. 0:23:43.920 --> 0:23:47.240 With this book, I had a little bit I asked 0:23:47.240 --> 0:23:50.520 for extra time. So normally I have a book out 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:54.600 every two years, and with this book, it's been three years. 0:23:55.160 --> 0:24:01.359 And I did love that because I felt I felt 0:24:01.480 --> 0:24:04.679 a sense of freedom in that. I was thinking, you 0:24:04.680 --> 0:24:06.680 know my terror that I described, I hope it's going 0:24:06.720 --> 0:24:08.960 to work this time. I was thinking, work, it doesn't work, 0:24:08.960 --> 0:24:13.080 It's okay, I've got time. I can throw it all away, 0:24:15.600 --> 0:24:19.280 and eventually it just disappears because then the story takes over. 0:24:19.800 --> 0:24:22.840 So then I'm interested enough in my characters and I'm 0:24:22.880 --> 0:24:25.800 having fun with it. So it's just getting through those 0:24:25.880 --> 0:24:33.720 first early months and knowing the good bits coming where 0:24:33.800 --> 0:24:35.639 I'll just be in with them, and just looking forward 0:24:35.680 --> 0:24:38.480 to spending the day with those characters. 0:24:39.720 --> 0:24:42.119 Yeah, and it sounds like managing that self talk is 0:24:42.200 --> 0:24:43.040 just so critical. 0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:44.480 Oh, it really is. 0:24:44.760 --> 0:24:47.880 What strategies have you found to help with that, either 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:50.480 that you use on your own or maybe that your 0:24:50.560 --> 0:24:52.280 husband or friends help with. 0:24:55.119 --> 0:25:03.239 Oh, nothing, nothing particularly innovative. I guess the fact that 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:06.080 I've done it. I've done it before, and this is 0:25:06.119 --> 0:25:10.919 what always happens. It's it's like the process of doing 0:25:11.440 --> 0:25:15.520 a spin class. So when you do it. Anytime I 0:25:15.560 --> 0:25:19.440 do a spin class, I can hardly bear those. 0:25:19.280 --> 0:25:20.480 First few songs. 0:25:20.600 --> 0:25:24.560 You know, you know, you're puffing and you're panting, and 0:25:25.160 --> 0:25:29.719