1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: And it turns out that we're taught that not quitting 2 00:00:04,080 --> 00:00:06,760 Speaker 1: that is the paths of success. And I do believe 3 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: that hard work is critical, but ultimately it's actually being 4 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: in line with who we are at our core and 5 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:18,120 Speaker 1: quitting the things that everybody else wants for us to 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,959 Speaker 1: pursue the thing that we're supposed to be doing. That 7 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:23,959 Speaker 1: is where the best stuff in life is. 8 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,639 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 10 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:36,279 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imback. I'm an 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,319 Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the founder of innovation consultancy Inventium, and I'm 12 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. My 13 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:48,879 Speaker 2: guest today is Chase Javis. Chase is an award winning artist, entrepreneur, 14 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,479 Speaker 2: and one of the most influential photographers of the past decade. 15 00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:56,280 Speaker 2: Chase's creative campaigns for Apple, Nike, Red Bull, and others, 16 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: and was a contributor to the Pulitzer winning New York 17 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: Times story Snowfall, and also earned an Emmy nomination for 18 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: his documentary Portrait of a City. Chase also created Best Camera, 19 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: which was the first photo app to share images to 20 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 2: social networks and is the founder of Creative Live, where 21 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:17,559 Speaker 2: more than ten million students learned things like photography, video design, music, 22 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:21,640 Speaker 2: and business from the world's top creators and entrepreneurs. So 23 00:01:21,720 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 2: I've been a fan of Chase's work, both his podcast 24 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,720 Speaker 2: and also Creative Live, where I've done quite a few 25 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:32,240 Speaker 2: of the courses for quite some time, and I recommend 26 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: checking both those things out if you're not familiar with them. 27 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 2: And Chase has also just released a book called Creative Calling, 28 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 2: which is all about how we can supercharge our creativity 29 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: and it has a ton of really fascinating ideas and 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: strategies in it, so very much recommend checking that out. 31 00:01:50,600 --> 00:01:54,639 Speaker 2: So I was very excited to speak to Chase after 32 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,559 Speaker 2: following his work for so long, and we chat about 33 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: all sorts of things for fostering creativity, through to how 34 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,440 Speaker 2: to become a better photographer, and through to even the 35 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:09,040 Speaker 2: books that have impacted Chase the most over the years. 36 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: So on that note, over to Chase to hear about 37 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: how he works. 38 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:15,560 Speaker 3: Chase, welcome to the show. 39 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: Thank you so much. I'm happy to be here. 40 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:20,760 Speaker 3: I'm very excited to be talking to you. 41 00:02:20,840 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 2: I've watched so many courses on Creative Live, and I've 42 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 2: also just read your new book, Creative Calling, which I love. 43 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 2: So firstly, just congratulations on just having such an amazing 44 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: impact on you know, really the creative community. 45 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:36,840 Speaker 1: No, thank you very much. 46 00:02:37,040 --> 00:02:39,639 Speaker 2: Now I want to start by diving into creativity. And 47 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 2: one of the things that you talk about in Creative 48 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 2: Calling is developing a starting ritual for creative work, which 49 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: I found quite interesting because I do quite a lot 50 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: of creative work myself. But then I was reflecting what 51 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: is my starting ritual? And I want to know what 52 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 2: is your starting ritual for creative work? And does it 53 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: vary depending on the type of work that you're doing. 54 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 1: Oh, first of all, absolutely, And I want to do 55 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 1: two things to orient us. First thing one is by 56 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: creative work. It's really important that we understand that in 57 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: our culture, we've been sold a myth that creativity equals art. 58 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: Now I'm a huge and very firm believer that art 59 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,799 Speaker 1: is super valuable, and I just want to make sure 60 00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: people at home know that art is not popsicle sticks 61 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 1: and pipe cleaners. And like we were talking about a 62 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 1: grade four that create that everything around you that you see, 63 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,519 Speaker 1: every chair that you're sitting in, if you're jogging down 64 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 1: the path right now, the park bench, and if you're 65 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: driving your car to the car the interface, all of 66 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: these things and all of the experiences, the meal you 67 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: had last night, the restaurant you went to, all these 68 00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 1: experiences are created, and so by creativity and creating the 69 00:03:50,320 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 1: rituals around it, I want to make sure that people 70 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 1: know that we're talking about creativity with a capital see here. 71 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: And this might be a definition that's a little bit 72 00:03:58,120 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: beyond what you've understood a book to be about, or 73 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 1: creativity in general. But to me, this is a really 74 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 1: important point, and it's a point that we're not taught 75 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,840 Speaker 1: in school. We're taught that you know that that art 76 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: equals creativity. So if you can believe that. The other 77 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,080 Speaker 1: thing is that when we're talking about creative rituals, first 78 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 1: of all, there might be people saying, well, I don't 79 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: I don't really identify as creative. And I need to 80 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: tell you very unequivocally that every person is creative. That 81 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 1: if you just walk into any grade one class and 82 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 1: say who wants to come to the front of the 83 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 1: room and say draw me a picture, how many hands 84 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: go up? Every single hand? Right? This is something that's 85 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:38,600 Speaker 1: innate in human beings, that we are all creative. It's 86 00:04:38,640 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 1: what separates us from every other species. So if you 87 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: can first get your head around these ideas, then to 88 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 1: me as we can get into actually answering the meat 89 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,880 Speaker 1: of your question. It depends for me on what it 90 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:55,159 Speaker 1: is that I'm doing. For example, I look at the 91 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: active building a business is wildly created. One of the 92 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: most creative things I've ever done. And it happen both 93 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 1: in small daily ways, like I'll just use creative live, 94 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: like as I'm preparing for executive meetings and being my 95 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: board or venture capitalists or you know, that is very 96 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: different than my life as a photographer and going on 97 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: set with a Nike or an Apple to shoot a 98 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: campaign and to get really tactical. Like most of the 99 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:28,240 Speaker 1: things about my creative like preparing to do my day 100 00:05:28,279 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 1: to day creativity, are there things that make me clear 101 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: headed and inspired and connected and grounded. So I have 102 00:05:38,160 --> 00:05:43,440 Speaker 1: visualization practices and meditation practices I exercise regularly. These are 103 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 1: like foundational, fundamental things. And when it goes off to 104 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: like I'm going to become a painter or I'm going 105 00:05:49,600 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 1: to you know, have this executive meeting or that you know, photograph. 106 00:05:53,680 --> 00:05:57,240 Speaker 1: Those are very very nuanced and personal. But the cool 107 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,480 Speaker 1: thing is that you know what all those things are 108 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:02,520 Speaker 1: through action rather than sitting back and thinking about what 109 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 1: would the perfect action be. If you just go out 110 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,520 Speaker 1: and start taking pictures and start building your business or 111 00:06:07,560 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: start becoming the thing that you want to become, what 112 00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,080 Speaker 1: you need to be doing starts to reveal itself really 113 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:13,760 Speaker 1: really quickly. 114 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 2: So has the pated a process of experimentation then for 115 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,920 Speaker 2: you in terms of working out what are those kind 116 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 2: of preparation rituals that work for you? 117 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: Absolutely? And this is another secret that we're not actually 118 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: told in school or in life or from our parents. 119 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:33,520 Speaker 1: And these are people who mean well for us, right 120 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: they what we're sold in culture is we're sold a map. 121 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: We're sold like, oh, you want to do this thing, well, 122 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: then here's where you are. You know, here's a little 123 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:45,480 Speaker 1: red dot. Imagine this and you can see the dotted 124 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,119 Speaker 1: line and then if you do all these little steps, 125 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:48,599 Speaker 1: then you're going to end up over here with the 126 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: red X. And this can just think about school. If 127 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: you go to this school and you get these grades, 128 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: then you can have this job and you can make 129 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 1: this much money and have this level of happiness. And look, 130 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: we all know that that's fiction, right or sold it, 131 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: but we know that it's fiction. And so what I'm 132 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 1: trying to do in creative Calling, and you know, with 133 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: your listeners right here today is like, hey, what if 134 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: you realized that you have a compass inside of you 135 00:07:17,240 --> 00:07:20,920 Speaker 1: rather than a map, and that compass it tells you 136 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: what you're supposed to be doing. And if you can 137 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:28,080 Speaker 1: get really good at listening to that compass or knowing 138 00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 1: what your true north is and that you're not going 139 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,280 Speaker 1: to have all of the answers, but you probably have 140 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:36,840 Speaker 1: the next couple of steps, that is a very very 141 00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: powerful tool. And that's what sort of my ethos has 142 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 1: been around, has been around, or sorry, has been about 143 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 1: and it wasn't obvious to me, but it's through these 144 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: imperfect actions and actually doing something instead of thinking about it. 145 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 1: The way I talk about it in the book is 146 00:07:55,760 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 1: action over intellect, in experimenting like I've made every mistake 147 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 1: you can possibly make. I went. You know, I hate 148 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:06,520 Speaker 1: books that tell you like, oh, start with perfect thing A, 149 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 1: and then do perfect thing B, C and D, and 150 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 1: then you're going to get to the perfect destination. E, 151 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,840 Speaker 1: which honestly is what most books are about and what 152 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: most colleges tell you when most of your parents outline 153 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:21,720 Speaker 1: for you, I was everything but that I got ten 154 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,160 Speaker 1: years out of my way doing everything that everybody else wanted. 155 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: I was, you know, one hundred thousand dollars into debt 156 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:33,319 Speaker 1: for my student loans. I was personally, like physically ill 157 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:37,200 Speaker 1: because what I was spending my time doing was not 158 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,840 Speaker 1: in line with my personal values. And only when I 159 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 1: started listening to this internal calling and taking action and 160 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:50,320 Speaker 1: experimenting with things that brought me curiosity and inspiration, and 161 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: started putting myself around people who who I resonated with 162 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:00,120 Speaker 1: and who like who basically I align with on a 163 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: value system. When I started doing those things, this cool 164 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 1: thing happened, which is life started happening for me rather 165 00:09:06,720 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 1: than to me. 166 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 2: I want to delve into, like, what are some of 167 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 2: those things that have worked well for you, like in 168 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,360 Speaker 2: your own life and your own experiments, And I want 169 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 2: to know, like I think writer's block, like metaphorical writer's 170 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 2: block is something that you know, everyone experiences when you're 171 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 2: trying to create something new, whatever that thing is. And 172 00:09:26,320 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 2: I think for you, you talk about switching projects, and 173 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,120 Speaker 2: I want to know more about how that happens. Like 174 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: I think something something that could often happen when people 175 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,600 Speaker 2: are stuck on something is that they will switch, but 176 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:41,320 Speaker 2: they kind of they won't have I guess enough grit 177 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: to just keep on pushing to the point where it's 178 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 2: sort of it's not too early to switch. 179 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 3: So can you share more about that switching projects. 180 00:09:49,000 --> 00:09:53,520 Speaker 1: We're taught that quitting is bad. We're taught that intuition 181 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:57,560 Speaker 1: is a whimsical thing, that it could be naive to 182 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 1: follow you intuition, and I find quite the opposite that. 183 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: Let's just take for example, my own experience with photography. 184 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 1: It was always there, it was always around me, but 185 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,840 Speaker 1: I was ignoring it because I was told it wasn't practical. 186 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 1: And then, through some weird turned events, my grandfather passed away, 187 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,439 Speaker 1: which was terrible, but the silver lining was I was 188 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,160 Speaker 1: given his cameras, and my intuition was saying, you know, 189 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 1: you've always like enjoyed photography. You've always like looked at 190 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: it from a distance and been curious about it. So 191 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,800 Speaker 1: I literally started taking pictures. And what I had been 192 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 1: doing with other parts of my life, pursuing medical school, 193 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: pursuing a career in professional soccer. All these things were 194 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 1: socially acceptable, but honestly, it was when I started taking 195 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 1: pictures that I understood that, oh my gosh, this is 196 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:52,320 Speaker 1: what it's like to do something that you love. And 197 00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:56,520 Speaker 1: when learning stops sounding like a chore and starts to 198 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: sound fun like I was spending time, I would, you know, 199 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:03,079 Speaker 1: like find my way into dark rooms so I could, 200 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: you know, pursue my passion, and learning started taking on 201 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: a new thing where I was excited by the idea 202 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,000 Speaker 1: of not knowing something and going out and finding the answers. 203 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: And then there were other things, so just the idea 204 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: of switching. For example, when anyone in life starts tapping 205 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:22,600 Speaker 1: into the things that feel good and we're supposed to 206 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 1: be doing and are around other people, we're then like, okay, great, well, 207 00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: then it's only that thing twenty four to seven, three 208 00:11:29,559 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: sixty five, and that's what we're you know, we got 209 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,800 Speaker 1: this analogy of ten thousand hours of not quitting of 210 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: But it turns out that not only is not quitting 211 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:45,760 Speaker 1: bad advice, and not only is single minded focus not real, 212 00:11:46,400 --> 00:11:49,479 Speaker 1: but in fact, it's doing other things that are adjacent 213 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:54,280 Speaker 1: where you actually find that this is your particular path. 214 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 1: Go back to this map versus compass. We're thought that 215 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,680 Speaker 1: there is one path, and maybe twenty or fifty years 216 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: ago there was a path for becoming an XO, Y 217 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:06,680 Speaker 1: or a Z, but now there are a million paths 218 00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: and exploring these things that are adjacent to photography. Like 219 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:15,560 Speaker 1: for me, I had this curiosity around painting, so I 220 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:18,880 Speaker 1: started oil painting. And not only did I find out 221 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 1: that I didn't want to paint after a while, but 222 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: in the process of painting, it gave me a little 223 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,920 Speaker 1: bit of a break from photography. And at the same time, 224 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,800 Speaker 1: I learned a lot about light and looking at light 225 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,320 Speaker 1: falling on any object, and that helped me in my 226 00:12:32,360 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 1: photography career. I was also curious about, well, great, how 227 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: do you make money as a photographer, And so these 228 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,320 Speaker 1: small entrepreneurial things that would preoccupy me and helped me 229 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,360 Speaker 1: understand that, wait a minute, I don't I don't know 230 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 1: anything about business, So how am I going to sell 231 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 1: my first photograph? And it was in studying the work 232 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,360 Speaker 1: of other people and how they sold their photographs and 233 00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:59,720 Speaker 1: trying to start small businesses and having a you know, 234 00:12:59,760 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: to manage my own finances. All these things that I 235 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: thought were distractions ultimately ended up being very, very valuable. 236 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 1: And when I was getting stuck with photography, my experience, 237 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:14,199 Speaker 1: you know, painting sort of not only did it give 238 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: me a new perspective, but it also when I went 239 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 1: back to photography, I had more information, I had more knowledge, 240 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 1: I was more connected with the thing that I had 241 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: sort of turned my back on. And it turns out that, 242 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 1: like we're taught that not quitting is the is the 243 00:13:30,120 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 1: paths of success. And I do believe that hard work 244 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:37,240 Speaker 1: is critical, but ultimately it's actually being in line with 245 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,240 Speaker 1: who we are at our core and quitting the things 246 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,000 Speaker 1: that everybody else wants for us to pursue the thing 247 00:13:44,040 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 1: that we're supposed to be doing. That is where the 248 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: best stuff in life is. And so I like to 249 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,240 Speaker 1: use a very two. It's very practical for those folks 250 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:58,120 Speaker 1: in your audience who love practicality, Like they're like, how 251 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: do I know the difference between my into and you 252 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: know what's actually going to get me the results? Well, 253 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:05,920 Speaker 1: it's pretty simple. I like to think I'm going to 254 00:14:05,960 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: credit my friend Chris Gilibo for this one, and it's 255 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: are you doing something right now, like, is it working 256 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:15,640 Speaker 1: what you're doing? And the second thing is do I 257 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,800 Speaker 1: love it? Because look at if you love it and 258 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 1: it's working, should you keep going? Obviously? Right, you love 259 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 1: it and it's working, keep going. What about if you 260 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:31,880 Speaker 1: don't love it and it's not working, well, obviously you 261 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: should not be pursuing that because these are two negatives. 262 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,160 Speaker 1: So it's when these things are in conflict, like both, 263 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 1: I love it, but it's not working to me. The 264 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: signal then is to try something different, right, because loving 265 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: it means you want to keep going but it's not working. Well, 266 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,080 Speaker 1: don't keep doing the same things. And then let's flip 267 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 1: those And this is to me where the hardest one 268 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: is it's working, but I don't I don't love it. 269 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: This is like being in a relationship that's just okay. 270 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: These are the hardest things to get out of because 271 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,800 Speaker 1: what you end up doing is you're just doing something 272 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: because other people are telling you it's good, and it's 273 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,440 Speaker 1: to me that's a little bit it's a little bit toxic. 274 00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: When you end up doing you know, you get ten 275 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:20,520 Speaker 1: years down the road like I had, or get one 276 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars in student debt like wait a minute, 277 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: I've actually been been living the life that everybody else 278 00:15:27,520 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: wanted me to live rather than the one that I 279 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:34,400 Speaker 1: should be living. With this sort of one precious gift. 280 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,840 Speaker 2: I think that's that's such great advice for the macro level. 281 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:40,320 Speaker 2: And I like this idea about following your curiosity even 282 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: if there's no logical connection to what you're kind of 283 00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 2: doing with the main. 284 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:46,160 Speaker 3: Part of your life. 285 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:48,320 Speaker 2: I want to I want to delve into sort of 286 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: more of a micro level, like a day to day level, 287 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 2: like what what are you doing when you are you know, 288 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 2: at your desk or your office or wherever you're doing 289 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 2: your work and you hit that stock point you also 290 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:02,760 Speaker 2: switching on a day to day level, what does that 291 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:03,200 Speaker 2: look like. 292 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,640 Speaker 1: I have a handful of projects that I'm working on 293 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: at any one time, and those can be within a 294 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:14,680 Speaker 1: particular business, like at Creative Live. Maybe I'm working on 295 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: launching a new set of products or a new set 296 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: of classes, or I'm trying to understand what the next 297 00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,360 Speaker 1: the next phase in learning looks like on a technology basis, 298 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:33,720 Speaker 1: or virtual reality or and I can switch between these 299 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: projects when I get stuck and or when sam waiting 300 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: for somebody else there's a piece of information that I need. 301 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: I think most people would stop and twitter at thumbs 302 00:16:42,080 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: for to me like moving on to another project within 303 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: the same sort of business or into an entirely different project. 304 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: Rather this is I'll just use the example of building 305 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: Creative Live is a full time, probably eighty hour a 306 00:16:57,280 --> 00:16:59,800 Speaker 1: week job, and I love it more than anything, and 307 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: I've spent ten years building it, and there's tens of 308 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,480 Speaker 1: millions of people that work on it. But writing the 309 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:08,800 Speaker 1: book Creative Calling was something that I did whenever I 310 00:17:08,840 --> 00:17:12,800 Speaker 1: would get blocked at work or wake up in the 311 00:17:12,840 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: morning at five am, or on the weekends or late 312 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 1: at night. Like writing it tended to unlock things in 313 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:23,800 Speaker 1: my day to day in a way that I couldn't 314 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: just keep smashing my head against the wall to get through. 315 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:31,479 Speaker 1: It was literally the act of changing my behavior or 316 00:17:31,560 --> 00:17:35,119 Speaker 1: working on something different that would then miraculously unlock the 317 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,400 Speaker 1: thing that I was working on. And it seems sort 318 00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 1: of maybe counterintuitive, but so much. I learned so much 319 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: about what about the creative process and what people who 320 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 1: are taking classes at Creative Live would want by actually 321 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:56,359 Speaker 1: creating a book about creativity. It starts to be easy 322 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,840 Speaker 1: to see how these things that are seemingly disconnected and 323 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:04,639 Speaker 1: our lives are actually very very connected and one can 324 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,560 Speaker 1: facilitate the other. This can be, you know, like the 325 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: experience that I just mentioned writing a book, but you 326 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: could extrapolate this to any number of things. For me, 327 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:20,840 Speaker 1: the writing actually was a it's not my natural instinct 328 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: is not to write. I knew that creative calling had 329 00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,280 Speaker 1: to be a book. I would most prefer to make 330 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: another internet video or a documentary film or anything other 331 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 1: than writing, because writing was slow and painful for me. 332 00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:36,040 Speaker 1: But it was in doing this thing that I knew 333 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,080 Speaker 1: to be true to have it be very different than 334 00:18:39,160 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: that my day to day activity of building a business 335 00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:43,359 Speaker 1: what I would actually say, okay, good, I'm blocked here. 336 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,160 Speaker 1: I'm going to set this down and I'm going to 337 00:18:46,200 --> 00:18:48,480 Speaker 1: take a walk and go take some pictures, or sit 338 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,240 Speaker 1: down with my journal in the morning and write about 339 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 1: half a dozen ways that I'm stuck. It was literally 340 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 1: in the changing of behaviors on a day to day 341 00:18:57,040 --> 00:19:00,840 Speaker 1: level or even hour to hour that helped facilitate all 342 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: these different things to continue to be moving. So I'm 343 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:07,160 Speaker 1: an advocate of always having three or four projects, even 344 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,560 Speaker 1: if you're primarily consumed with one as I have been 345 00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,239 Speaker 1: with building Creative Live, or I as I was as 346 00:19:14,960 --> 00:19:17,920 Speaker 1: my career as a photographer. I sort of was building 347 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:20,439 Speaker 1: businesses on the side. I did an iPhone app that 348 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:25,359 Speaker 1: was very successful. I literally created Creative Live as a 349 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,159 Speaker 1: side hustle, and then it became this big thing, so 350 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: I started applying more effort there. But what I find 351 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: is that, to answer very concretely your question, having a 352 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: handful of things going at the same time isn't just 353 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 1: a distraction if they're all sort of in line with 354 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,080 Speaker 1: your values. It's a way to keep moving when you 355 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:46,200 Speaker 1: might be blocked on one thing or another. 356 00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I really I really like that answer because it 357 00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:52,199 Speaker 2: almost goes against conventional wisdom where you just sort of 358 00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 2: focus on the one thing. And I guess with that, 359 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 2: like given the different hats that you're wearing, I guess 360 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 2: in your life being CEO of Creative Live, when you 361 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:02,800 Speaker 2: were in the process of writing the book, and obviously 362 00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:05,360 Speaker 2: now you're in the process of promoting the book, which 363 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 2: is a whole other kind of stage of the process, 364 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,400 Speaker 2: and also your workers. A photographer, how do you think 365 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:15,480 Speaker 2: about like balancing or compartmentalizing a typical week or a 366 00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:18,639 Speaker 2: typical month, like is it quite fluid or do you 367 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:19,880 Speaker 2: do you kind of have boundaries? 368 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:20,679 Speaker 3: What does that look like? 369 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:28,240 Speaker 1: I am an advocate of First of all, I think 370 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:35,119 Speaker 1: balance is a myth. I think harmony is everything like, 371 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:40,000 Speaker 1: you can't you can't be doing all things equally right, 372 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: you can't. There's just that that implies a universe of stasis, 373 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,760 Speaker 1: of like something static and you can keep everything in balance. 374 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,880 Speaker 1: I have my experience of life and the experiences that 375 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: you know were I've been successful and not in deconstructing 376 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: the lives of my friends and the folks who are 377 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: the best in the world at whatever discipline they are. 378 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: These are the best entrepreneurs and creators, the Richard Branson's, 379 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,960 Speaker 1: the Brene Browns, the people that I've had on my 380 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: show or that are on Creative Live, or that are 381 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: dear personal friends of mine. Nobody has balance, but everybody 382 00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: finds a way to cultivate harmony. That is, at any 383 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 1: one particular moment in life, you're going to have one 384 00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 1: project that's at a whack, but you're going to have 385 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: two or three that are going well. And this desire 386 00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,840 Speaker 1: and it's largely sort of fed from our popular culture 387 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 1: mentality that projects a certain way of life, that life 388 00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 1: is this perfect Instagram feed when in reality it's imprecise 389 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,520 Speaker 1: and awkward. But knowing that your one project might be 390 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: at a whack, or things might be hard at home 391 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: when they're going great at work, that that's actually the 392 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: natural course of life to me. When you can actually 393 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 1: acknowledge that, that takes a lot of the angst and 394 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:06,119 Speaker 1: stress out of trying to live this perfectly balanced life. 395 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:09,440 Speaker 1: So part of let's get real tactical for a moment here. 396 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 1: This is why I have both a set of routines 397 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: and on one end, this is something I do every day, 398 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: for example, and then I have this awareness that not 399 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,760 Speaker 1: everything is going to go well at all times, and 400 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:32,160 Speaker 1: it's you know, it's this is how you keeping both 401 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,760 Speaker 1: both these things can be true at the same time 402 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 1: versus I think what we're sold on television and in 403 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,840 Speaker 1: our Instagram feed so precisely, like I have a morning 404 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: routine and I do the same thing every morning, doesn't 405 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: matter if it's a weekend, doesn't matter if it's I 406 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:49,119 Speaker 1: got to catch a six am flight, or if I 407 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:51,320 Speaker 1: get to sleep in untill eight or nine or ten am. 408 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,040 Speaker 1: I do the same things every morning, and that's I meditate, 409 00:22:56,160 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: I have a mindfulness and a visualization practice. I take 410 00:22:58,600 --> 00:23:01,040 Speaker 1: either a cold shower or a cold plunge, just a 411 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 1: handful of things that I keep the same every day. 412 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 1: But i'm my own ability to be productive, my own 413 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: ability to be creative, my own ability to direct my 414 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:14,080 Speaker 1: life in a way that's meaningful and valuable to me. 415 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: It ebbs and flows, and both those things can be true, 416 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,000 Speaker 1: and I can still have a successful outcome. I think 417 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,560 Speaker 1: part of what we ought to know about outcomes in 418 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: our culture is that, as I was saying a little 419 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: bit earlier, we used to be prescribed that there was 420 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 1: one way to make it. And what we know to 421 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: be true now is that there's a million paths, and 422 00:23:40,080 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 1: that the best thing that you can do is lean 423 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:45,960 Speaker 1: into things that are uniquely you. You know, that weird, 424 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,160 Speaker 1: quirky thing that you experienced as a kid. That's probably 425 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,119 Speaker 1: the path to building your business. You want to solve 426 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:56,119 Speaker 1: a problem that's actually meaningful to you personally, rather than 427 00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:59,800 Speaker 1: chase some random market opportunity that when stuff gets hard, 428 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: and it surely will, you'll be more likely to quit. 429 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: So what is this sort of true authentic aspect of you. 430 00:24:07,480 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: To me, that's where all the best stuff in life is. 431 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,440 Speaker 2: And how do you know if life is in harmony? 432 00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 2: What does that look like? What are you thinking and 433 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,160 Speaker 2: feeling to go, Yep, I've got harmony. 434 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: I love this because it seems very ambiguous, because we 435 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 1: all want to write it down and document it and 436 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,880 Speaker 1: throw the scientific method on it. And I get it. 437 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:32,080 Speaker 1: That's a natural part of our culture, especially for type 438 00:24:32,080 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 1: A people. But here's the deal. Look backwards in your life. 439 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: I have yet to ask this question and have anybody 440 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 1: say no. Was there a time or maybe a bunch 441 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: of times where things felt right where the universe was 442 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: happening for you? And that means you were around good people, 443 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,359 Speaker 1: The work that you were doing, whatever it was in life, 444 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: felt like it had meaning and vitality, and you had energy. 445 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: And look backwards. Were there times in your life where 446 00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,760 Speaker 1: you felt that where life felt effortless, even if the 447 00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,280 Speaker 1: work that you were doing was hard. Everybody says yes 448 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,959 Speaker 1: to this question, even if it was for a moment 449 00:25:14,520 --> 00:25:16,879 Speaker 1: or just a season of your life or a month 450 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: or a year. And then I ask you, what were 451 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,360 Speaker 1: the characteristics of that time? And if you list those characteristics. 452 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 1: It usually goes something like this, I was working on 453 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:30,360 Speaker 1: something that was meaningful. I was around people that cared 454 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 1: about me and for whom I cared, and like I 455 00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 1: was in line with my values, doing what I knew 456 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: in my heart was right. And whether that's professionally, personally, 457 00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: in a relationship, whatever. So we don't actually have to 458 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:50,960 Speaker 1: be able to apply the scientific method to this. Once 459 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:56,159 Speaker 1: you felt it, you can deconstruct it and recreate it. 460 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 1: And that is who are the people that you should 461 00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: be spending time with, What are the things that you 462 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: ought to be working on? And I think where the 463 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: rubber meets the road is for almost everybody who's listening 464 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: right now, there is this gap between where you are 465 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 1: right now and having that same feeling on a recurring basis. 466 00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: The cool thing is the answer to closing that gap 467 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 1: is to look back and look at what was working 468 00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:31,639 Speaker 1: for that brief moment or that period or that season 469 00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: in your life where it was where it was happening, 470 00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: and apply that same structure, that same philosophy to this 471 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:43,720 Speaker 1: gap that you're currently experiencing. And that is the right 472 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,159 Speaker 1: people working in the right things, doing things that are 473 00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:47,200 Speaker 1: in line with your values. 474 00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 3: I love that advice. That is very helpful. 475 00:26:50,560 --> 00:26:53,800 Speaker 2: You've mentioned meditation a couple of times, and I've read 476 00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 2: that you struggled to create a meditation practice when you 477 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,959 Speaker 2: initially tried, and then you found TransNation, And I'm wondering, 478 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,719 Speaker 2: can you talk to me about what makes TM different 479 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 2: to other types of meditation that you tried and why 480 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,439 Speaker 2: you think that was the one that's stuck for you. 481 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: Well, to be clear, I don't want to be prescriptive, 482 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,399 Speaker 1: and I think transcendental meditation worked for me for a 483 00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,280 Speaker 1: number of reasons that I'll go into in just a second. 484 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:23,000 Speaker 1: But what I'm advocate for is some sort of mindfulness practice. 485 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,640 Speaker 1: I'm sort of an awareness practice. And this can be visualization, 486 00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:28,840 Speaker 1: it can be prayer, it can be meditation, and that 487 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 1: can be TM or awareness or there's like so many 488 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:40,640 Speaker 1: different I think descriptors or practices that can fulfill this 489 00:27:40,880 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 1: piece of life that I'm getting at right now. And 490 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: So for me, my own personal journey was as a 491 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:56,199 Speaker 1: young athlete, I found success in sports and got to 492 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: participate at a very high level. I went to our 493 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,000 Speaker 1: college on a soccer scholarship. I was on the Olympic 494 00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 1: development team for the US and we had access to 495 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,360 Speaker 1: to instructors and psychologists that were very that helped us 496 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,119 Speaker 1: understand visualization and the power of what happens in the 497 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: mind and how the mind is basically sort of a 498 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: manifesting machine. And then I remembered it because that was 499 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:26,280 Speaker 1: such a powerful thing for me. I felt like the 500 00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:29,360 Speaker 1: things that I was visualizing were coming true long before 501 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:33,560 Speaker 1: you know that, or what I was visualizing was actually happening. 502 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 1: And I was like, wow, I look backwards, like, man, 503 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,120 Speaker 1: what I was. You know, I was visualizing scoring twenty 504 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 1: goals that season, and lo and behold, I scored twenty 505 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,160 Speaker 1: goals or whatever the simple connective tissue was. I found 506 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:47,520 Speaker 1: that there was power in that moment. And then I 507 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:52,120 Speaker 1: returned to this as an adult, like I clearly, mindset 508 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: and the power of the mind is a massive accelerant. 509 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,000 Speaker 1: And just look at you know, anyone who's success any discipline, 510 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,480 Speaker 1: they've got something different, and even if their physical attributes 511 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: are the same, that this mental capacity is a very 512 00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:11,720 Speaker 1: very powerful lever. So I said, great, I'd like to 513 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,800 Speaker 1: apply that. I remember what that was like as a 514 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,840 Speaker 1: young person, what does that look like as an adult 515 00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 1: and maybe in a professional capacity as opposed to the 516 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 1: sports capacity. And so I started experimenting. And again go 517 00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 1: back to my comment earlier about taking action rather than 518 00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: just trying to think your way out of I didn't say, oh, 519 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,520 Speaker 1: I want to find the perfect mental exercise. I just 520 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: started trying. So I went to meditation retreats, and I tried, 521 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:41,720 Speaker 1: you know, other visualization types, And after doing four or 522 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,120 Speaker 1: five that didn't stick it, I didn't just like turn 523 00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: it off and saying, well, I don't think this whole 524 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,600 Speaker 1: mindfulness thing, I don't think there's anything there. I just 525 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:54,720 Speaker 1: stumbled into through trying. I stumbled into it through experimenting TM. 526 00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,480 Speaker 1: I remember the first transcendental meditation experience I had was 527 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: wickedly profound. And I'm to be crystal clear, I'm not 528 00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:08,600 Speaker 1: prescribing TM here. I'm just saying it worked for me, 529 00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:13,200 Speaker 1: and that when I've deconstructed my successes and failures and 530 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,719 Speaker 1: the lives of the people who around me who are 531 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:19,040 Speaker 1: the most successful in the world, this is the number 532 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:23,520 Speaker 1: one correlated thing, is that there's some sort of mindfulness practice. 533 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: And notice I say practice, practice has two sides to it. One, 534 00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:31,480 Speaker 1: it's never done, so it's always you're always practicing, and 535 00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:35,600 Speaker 1: two that it requires a constant doing that. It is 536 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,680 Speaker 1: a regular activity, right, It's not something you do once 537 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:41,760 Speaker 1: and then you get to be done with it. So 538 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,720 Speaker 1: that is a strong correlation. And for me it was TM. 539 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: For some listener right now, it could be you know, 540 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 1: awareness practice, or some other sort of some other practice, prayer, visualization, 541 00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: any of these things. I'm just an advocate that you 542 00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,320 Speaker 1: need to find something. And that is the number one 543 00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,640 Speaker 1: correlation between all the people who are both not just 544 00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 1: successful but fulfilled. There's some sort of a mindfulness, meditation, 545 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,640 Speaker 1: prayer practice and that is virtually ubiquitous across the top 546 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: performers in the world at any discipline. 547 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 3: M Yeah, absolutely. 548 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 2: Now I want to ask you a couple more questions. 549 00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:23,640 Speaker 2: This one is a slightly selfish one. I've been reading 550 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,040 Speaker 2: this book called Ultra Learning by Scott Young. 551 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 3: I imagine you probably. 552 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:30,600 Speaker 2: Familiar with it, and it's been inspiring me to go 553 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 2: out and learn some new things. And one of the 554 00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,640 Speaker 2: things that I'm thinking, maybe this is something I want 555 00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 2: to delve into a bit is photography. So I'm wondering 556 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:42,720 Speaker 2: if you had let's say, like one hour to teach 557 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:46,360 Speaker 2: someone who has taken photos on the iPhone, and that's 558 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: about it. 559 00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 3: What do you do? 560 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 2: What are the key things to be thinking about to 561 00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,000 Speaker 2: become a better than amateur photographer. 562 00:31:54,280 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: Sure it is ruthlessly simple and practical, and that is 563 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 1: if you look at the traits of the best photographers 564 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,360 Speaker 1: in the world. And again, you can do this with 565 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:11,400 Speaker 1: any discipline. You want to be a dancer, look at 566 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:14,160 Speaker 1: the discipline of a professional dancer, and then what are 567 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: the basics there? But since you asked about photography, I'll 568 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: just give you an example. Most amateur photographers, you're going 569 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 1: to pull out your iPhone. You want to take a 570 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 1: picture of your kid at their birthday. What do you do? 571 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: You say, smile, I only need to take one picture. 572 00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,840 Speaker 1: Look at the behavior of pro How many pictures does 573 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:36,440 Speaker 1: a professional take at that same birthday party? Fifty one 574 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:40,760 Speaker 1: hundred one thousand. It literally will take orders of magnitudes 575 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,840 Speaker 1: more photographs of any one moment in order to get 576 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,160 Speaker 1: the ones you want. So specifically around photography and your question, 577 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 1: do it ten times more than you think you ought to, 578 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: because that is the behavior of the people who are 579 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: the best in the world at this. If you want 580 00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 1: to be better at the guitar, do you just pick 581 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,360 Speaker 1: up a guitar and one chord and think you're going 582 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 1: to be able to play the guitar like your favorite musician, 583 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,880 Speaker 1: or sing like Lady Gaga, or do like or take 584 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:12,760 Speaker 1: photographs like Ansel Adams or no, there's two things. There's 585 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: this repetition of you need to take photographs every day 586 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: on a regular basis, even if it's just on your 587 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: walk at lunch, and then in any one moment, taking 588 00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: a lot of photographs of that moment because you've got 589 00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,480 Speaker 1: with every new photograph you take, you have another chance 590 00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,520 Speaker 1: of capturing the perfect moment that you wouldn't otherwise have. 591 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,680 Speaker 1: So to me, like the volume matters. There's this great 592 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: apocryphal story that I cover in the book Creative Calling 593 00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:44,200 Speaker 1: about this ceramics teacher and she divides the class into two. 594 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 1: On the left side this class, you're going to be judged. 595 00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 1: You have one project all semester long. You make one pot, 596 00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 1: and then you're judged on the merits of that. But 597 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:55,840 Speaker 1: you have this is you have like sixteen weeks to 598 00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: make one thing, just make it good. But you have 599 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:00,800 Speaker 1: sixteen weeks the other side of the class. I don't 600 00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: care what your work looks like. I want you to, 601 00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,840 Speaker 1: I'm going to grade you based on volume. Based on 602 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: sheer volume, you could probably forecast where the story goes. 603 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:16,279 Speaker 1: Not only did the group who made more volume make 604 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: more stuff, but their stuff was radically better than the 605 00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:25,359 Speaker 1: group that just made one. So logically, you say, why 606 00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:28,759 Speaker 1: is that one? This group on that was producing a 607 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,799 Speaker 1: lot of volume. They essentially were practicing right. They did 608 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:34,160 Speaker 1: it every day, or they made a new pot or 609 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,359 Speaker 1: some part of the new pot every day, and they 610 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: also didn't judge the outcome. So to you to your 611 00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:47,799 Speaker 1: specific photography example, rather than judging every single photograph, why 612 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 1: don't you just take a lot of them, stop judging 613 00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: and keep creating. This group, this ceramics group, they just 614 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: made a ton of volume and their stuff ended up 615 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:02,520 Speaker 1: being way better. Last piece I'll say to your photography 616 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: question is how do you understand what good is? That's 617 00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: also easy, and I gave a little clue in the 618 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:12,399 Speaker 1: first person, like what does a pro do? I'd love 619 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:16,319 Speaker 1: to deconstruct the work of people who are way further 620 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:18,360 Speaker 1: along in me in any discipline. If I want to 621 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 1: become a speed reader, what are the people doing who 622 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: are the fastest readers in the world, or consume the 623 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,440 Speaker 1: most books or talk about this or teach this online. 624 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,759 Speaker 1: What are the characteristics that they do. And there's a 625 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:35,480 Speaker 1: little basically a practice in the book that I called 626 00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:41,239 Speaker 1: deer dea r and that is deconstruct whatever's working for 627 00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:46,640 Speaker 1: the best people in any discipline, emulate like literally imitate 628 00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: literally rip off the actions that they're doing. Analyze this 629 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: is the a what's working for you and what's not, 630 00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,160 Speaker 1: and then repeat the stuff that does work, and omit 631 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,560 Speaker 1: the stuff that does. And right now you're going, wait 632 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 1: a minute, is it that simple? I'll tell you and 633 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: I walked through this in the book. This is literally 634 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,120 Speaker 1: how I became one of the most successful commercial photographers 635 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: in the world. I started by standing at the newsstand 636 00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,760 Speaker 1: and opening magazines in the action sports world and taking 637 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:17,800 Speaker 1: notes on every single photograph. Who is the photographer, where 638 00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: did they take the picture, what was in the picture, 639 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:23,720 Speaker 1: who were the athletes. And it was through then trying 640 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: to imitate those photographs and analyzing what I was good 641 00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:30,359 Speaker 1: at and what I needed to work at, and then 642 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,440 Speaker 1: repeating that behavior that led to my success. So this 643 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,759 Speaker 1: can be true for you with the photography question that 644 00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:43,520 Speaker 1: you post, or anyone with any ambition. You can deconstruct 645 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,399 Speaker 1: what other people are doing and apply what works for you. 646 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: Repeat that process in order to create your own signature 647 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,840 Speaker 1: style rather than just being a ripoff of what everybody 648 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,799 Speaker 1: else does. That's the big kicker there is the r 649 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:59,879 Speaker 1: repeat this stuff over and over so that you can 650 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: get in tune with what you're doing and how that 651 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: is unique and different relative to everyone else. 652 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:06,520 Speaker 3: That's great. 653 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:09,040 Speaker 2: I particularly like what you said about quantity as well. 654 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,520 Speaker 2: It's it's funny, that's of course that's what Yeah, but 655 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 2: I've never thought about that. 656 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is reassuring. And this is like everybody 657 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:21,319 Speaker 1: wants to be great overnight, and the reality is that 658 00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:25,320 Speaker 1: none of your heroes became great overnight. They've all put 659 00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,640 Speaker 1: this time and energy. And here's the cool thing. You 660 00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 1: might be ten thousand hours away from if you want 661 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 1: to be great at photography, or you want to build 662 00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 1: the business of your dreams, or you want it, like 663 00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,799 Speaker 1: whatever your ambition is right now, the reality is you're 664 00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:42,319 Speaker 1: probably some distance away from it, right whether it's a 665 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: year or one thousand hours or ten thousand hours that 666 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: we you know, we've heard that analogy before. But here's 667 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:52,120 Speaker 1: the deal. Your one decision away, and that is the 668 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:53,879 Speaker 1: decision that that's what you want to do. 669 00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:56,040 Speaker 3: That's a nice way of looking at it. 670 00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 2: I had one final question for you, Chase, if you're 671 00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,799 Speaker 2: good for a couple more minutes. In Creative Calling, you 672 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 2: talk about the power of books being mentors, and I 673 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:10,279 Speaker 2: love that because anyone can find a book, but a 674 00:38:10,360 --> 00:38:11,960 Speaker 2: lot of people probably think, how am I going to 675 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:15,120 Speaker 2: find a mentor? So I want to know which books 676 00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,799 Speaker 2: for you? You know, maybe what are a handful that 677 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:21,319 Speaker 2: have had the biggest impact on your life and how 678 00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 2: you are and how you think about things. 679 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:28,360 Speaker 1: Ah Man, Well, this is a risky question because so 680 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 1: many of my friends are world class authors, and I 681 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:35,800 Speaker 1: wouldn't want to some without the other. But they're a 682 00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: handful of them that I can cite as being really powerful. 683 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:49,480 Speaker 1: I'll go into a really early inspiration for me was 684 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,279 Speaker 1: Tim Ferriss's book The Four Hour work Week, not because 685 00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:58,840 Speaker 1: of necessarily wanting to work for four hours, but because 686 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:05,120 Speaker 1: it's signaled a you don't. Actually it was more reinforcement 687 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 1: because I was living this, but there's always this voice 688 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,320 Speaker 1: of doubt in my head. And what Tim Tim is 689 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,600 Speaker 1: a close personal friend of mine. He wasn't at the time, 690 00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:14,480 Speaker 1: right when the for Our Work Week first came out, 691 00:39:14,560 --> 00:39:18,319 Speaker 1: but it was like, wait a minute, you mean the 692 00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 1: thing that everyone that has prescribed to us about our 693 00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: ambition and about how to get there, You mean that 694 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:31,680 Speaker 1: that's actually not right, that the dominant cultural narrative is 695 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,520 Speaker 1: something that should be questioned. Because when I was, you know, 696 00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: desiring to become a photographer, but my parents and everybody 697 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: around me said, no, you should be a doctor, you 698 00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:41,800 Speaker 1: should be a lawyer, you should be a professional athlete, 699 00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: you should be all these things that are revealed and revered, 700 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to take pictures with my friends 701 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: like that that I was taught that not only was 702 00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:52,360 Speaker 1: that impractical, but it was that it was not realistic. 703 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,120 Speaker 1: And what Tim's booked the for Our Work Week and 704 00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,560 Speaker 1: a lot of his work since then showed me. But 705 00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:00,759 Speaker 1: as it's actually, if you look at the lives of 706 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:04,360 Speaker 1: anyone that you admire or respect or appreciate, very few 707 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:08,279 Speaker 1: of them happened through this path that we are all prescribed. 708 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,560 Speaker 1: So that gave me a really early sort of reassurance 709 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:16,239 Speaker 1: at a time where I was full of doubt that 710 00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:22,040 Speaker 1: whatever was possible. And then a second I'll say author 711 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: rather than individual book, because I prefer to look at 712 00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:27,400 Speaker 1: the body of work, and that's the work of Brene 713 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,160 Speaker 1: Brown also, who at first was someone who I looked 714 00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,480 Speaker 1: at from across the room and said, Wow, she's really 715 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:39,439 Speaker 1: tapped into something. And this is vulnerability, authenticity, shame, why 716 00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: we do particular things, and what behaviors both that we 717 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:48,920 Speaker 1: employ and avoid, and how we sort of connect with 718 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,279 Speaker 1: us authenticity. So her books, like most recently, dare to 719 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:59,040 Speaker 1: lead the gifts of imperfection. These are are you know, 720 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 1: there's gosh, I think she's had like seven or eight 721 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:05,120 Speaker 1: number one New York Times bestsellers, but Brenee's work has 722 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:11,000 Speaker 1: profoundly impacted my lens on life, and precisely because it 723 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:16,000 Speaker 1: is again, there's this these narratives that are that we are, 724 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: that we buy into as a culture, and that we're 725 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,400 Speaker 1: taught that if we're vulnerable, that's a sign of weakness, 726 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:25,880 Speaker 1: and that if we're authentic, and what we mean by 727 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:29,080 Speaker 1: authentic is in line with our true, weird, quirky self, 728 00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:31,839 Speaker 1: that we're somehow not going to be loved. And what 729 00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:35,640 Speaker 1: I've found is that it's literally the opposite that the 730 00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:38,760 Speaker 1: more vulnerable I am with an individual, with an audience 731 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: or around a particular topic. The more connection I feel, 732 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,440 Speaker 1: the more empathy and understanding I have about the world 733 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:49,879 Speaker 1: and my place in it. And the same thing with authenticity, 734 00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:53,759 Speaker 1: that that quirky, weird part that I have historically tried 735 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,920 Speaker 1: to hide, that if I actually flaunt that, that's actually 736 00:41:56,960 --> 00:42:03,000 Speaker 1: what cultivates this connection and makes me stand out in 737 00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:06,160 Speaker 1: a really powerful way, not in a like this person's weird, 738 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: because what we're all weird. We're all quirky, and when 739 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,680 Speaker 1: we see someone taking a risk, we see someone standing out. 740 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:16,640 Speaker 1: That's what inspires and connects and shows us the future 741 00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,839 Speaker 1: that's possible. So you know, I think I could keep 742 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: going because again, so many of my friends are our 743 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 1: authors and whatnot. But those are you know, two books 744 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: or two rather again, I like to look at bodies 745 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,520 Speaker 1: of work that have been profoundly impacting on my career 746 00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:36,960 Speaker 1: and body of work. So oh a lot to those 747 00:42:36,960 --> 00:42:40,919 Speaker 1: two folks, who I'm also very thankful too to call 748 00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:42,080 Speaker 1: close personal friends. 749 00:42:42,080 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 3: Now that's awesome, Jessie. 750 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:47,080 Speaker 2: Well, look, Chase, I've loved a chat, and again, thank 751 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,919 Speaker 2: you for everything you've created in this world. Like I've 752 00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:53,359 Speaker 2: just learned so much from the courses on Creative Live 753 00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 2: and just love Creative Calling as well. 754 00:42:57,200 --> 00:42:58,919 Speaker 3: So thank you so much for your time. 755 00:42:58,960 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: I'm really appreciated, very very happy to be on the show, 756 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:05,160 Speaker 1: and I want to take a moment to acknowledge the 757 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:08,280 Speaker 1: work that you've done and the community that you've built 758 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,440 Speaker 1: and putting it out there in the world for helping 759 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:13,920 Speaker 1: those of us and those in your tribe that are 760 00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:19,480 Speaker 1: trying to find her our way through this one cool, 761 00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:22,280 Speaker 1: weird life that we all get. So kudos to Yourmantha 762 00:43:22,320 --> 00:43:23,799 Speaker 1: for building something remarkable. 763 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:25,400 Speaker 3: Thank you. That's very kind. 764 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,359 Speaker 2: That is it for today's show. I hope you liked 765 00:43:29,520 --> 00:43:33,480 Speaker 2: my chat with Chase. I know after speaking with him, 766 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:38,840 Speaker 2: I was very inspired to kick off this photography hobby 767 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,160 Speaker 2: of mine, so I literally went out and took the 768 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:46,760 Speaker 2: very large quantity of photos in line with Chase's advice. 769 00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,120 Speaker 2: So that is it for today. If you are enjoying 770 00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:54,319 Speaker 2: how I work, why not leave a review in Apple Podcasts. 771 00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,239 Speaker 2: I am so appreciative for everyone that does this. It 772 00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:00,200 Speaker 2: only takes five ten seconds out of your day. You 773 00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,160 Speaker 2: can leave a star rating or you can write some 774 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,880 Speaker 2: words about what you think. Either is amazingly wonderful. So 775 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:09,279 Speaker 2: thank you for everyone that has done that. That is 776 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:11,560 Speaker 2: it for today and I will see you next time.