1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: Welcome to our special Saturday edition of a Happy Families podcast, 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 1: Real Parenting Solutions every Day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. 3 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:15,920 Speaker 1: Earlier in the week, Kylie and I had a chat 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,560 Speaker 1: about my discussion with Charlie Brown, and today you hear 5 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: the conversation in full. From explaining the latest gadgets on 6 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: Australia's TV screens to tackling one of modern parenting's biggest challenges, 7 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:31,600 Speaker 1: Charlie Brown has been at the forefront of helping Australians 8 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 1: navigate the ever evolving world of technology. He's the creator 9 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:39,640 Speaker 1: and face of Cybershak TV, Australia's longest running tech TV show, 10 00:00:39,920 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: and the voice behind Life and Technology, the well loved 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 1: radio program. Charlie has spent over two decades making complex 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: tech accessible to everyday Australians. He's a UNI of Western 13 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: Sydney graduate with the background of marketing in it, but 14 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: he does a whole lot more beyond the traditional media 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:02,040 Speaker 1: Stuff Today Show, Current Affair. But his company CBN has 16 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: him working closely with leading tech companies to bridge the 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: gap between innovative technology and consumer understanding. In twenty nineteen, 18 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:13,040 Speaker 1: Charlie took on what I think is his most significant 19 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 1: challenge yet, that is addressing the growing concern around children's 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,280 Speaker 1: digital safety. I think it's fair to say that Charlie 21 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: was ahead of the curve, and while I was still 22 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 1: saying I'm not quite sure, but I think most of 23 00:01:23,959 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: this is okay, but some of it's not, Charlie was 24 00:01:26,400 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: saying exactly the opposite. It led to the creation of GM. 25 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:31,400 Speaker 1: It's a smart device designed to tackle the delicate balance 26 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: between digital access and online safety, a project that emerged 27 00:01:35,560 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 1: from his years of understanding both the potential and the 28 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:42,960 Speaker 1: pitfalls of our connected world. Okay, it's quite an intro, 29 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 1: but I wanted to make sure that people know just 30 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,320 Speaker 1: what you've done. Charlie. Good to have you, good. 31 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,680 Speaker 2: To talk to you justin I've been watching your stuff 32 00:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 2: for a long time and a big fan of your 33 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: content as well, so it's good to have a chat 34 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: to you and talk to you about all the things 35 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 2: that are flowing around in this area. 36 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: You swung by my house during the summerhole all days 37 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 1: and dropped off a GM phone. I was thinking about 38 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: giving it to my daughter. Since then, I've decided that 39 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 1: she's only not even eleven yet, and she's homeschooled, she 40 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,920 Speaker 1: doesn't actually need it, so we're going to hold off 41 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,160 Speaker 1: on giving her that phone. But there are so many 42 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,200 Speaker 1: parents who are not in that position where they can say, 43 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: we can hold off because our child is with us, 44 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: the kids are going to school, the kids are out there, 45 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: they're living their lives. Before you created g ME, what 46 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,360 Speaker 1: were the most common concerns that you heard from parents 47 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: about kids and phones while you were being a tech commentator. 48 00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 1: I presume that the concerns that you heard led you 49 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: to creating GM. So what was it that precipitator all 50 00:02:34,800 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 1: of this, Well, I. 51 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,560 Speaker 2: Guess my job. I've spent a lot of time looking 52 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: up the road at what's coming, or what I saw 53 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: was the age of first adoption of phones was getting 54 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: younger and younger. Phones were getting faster, that's the actual 55 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: processing ability of each one. The screens are getting richer, 56 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: the connectivity was getting faster, and all of that was 57 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 2: sort of being melted in to this opportunit unity to 58 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 2: give at some point phones to kids. And at the time, 59 00:03:07,160 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 2: I think this was sort of mid twenty fifteens around there. 60 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 2: And I then started seeing social media being blended in 61 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: in a portable manner. I mean, we'd seen you know, 62 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: the Instagrams and facebooks and all those kinds of things 63 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 2: coming in, but they were then being used younger and 64 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:27,320 Speaker 2: younger and younger as well, and there was this sort 65 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,960 Speaker 2: of you know, alarm bells going off of Has anyone 66 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: actually thought whether this is okay for the people who 67 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 2: are going to be engaging with this content and with 68 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: these devices. And the more I thought about it, the 69 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 2: more worried I got. And as a father of three 70 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 2: daughters myself, I knew that we were getting to that 71 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 2: point in our own family. And the catalyst for Jamie 72 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:55,680 Speaker 2: was my wife said to me, Okay, well, when we 73 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 2: were growing up, we had Sony Walkman's and those kinds 74 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 2: of things. We had tapes and CD and then we 75 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 2: played MP three files and all of that. And Rachel 76 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,000 Speaker 2: said to me, everything's streaming now, so how are our 77 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: kids going to get their music? They've got Spotify, But 78 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: every device out there has got a camera on it. 79 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:14,920 Speaker 2: And then when I went looked at the devices that 80 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,480 Speaker 2: were out there, I didn't like any of them. I 81 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 2: went and I went, I went everywhere. I didn't just 82 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 2: go to Harvey Norman and JP Highway. I went to 83 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 2: Alibarba dot com, right right into the belly of the 84 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 2: beast of Chinese manufacturing. There was nothing and so that's 85 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: that's where all of this sort of crashed together and 86 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:37,239 Speaker 2: I thought, well, someone's going to do something about it, 87 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 2: it might as well be me. 88 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: It's a really big call. As you talk about that, 89 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 1: I remember walking down Crown Street in Wollongong, that's where 90 00:04:44,880 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 1: we lived the time, and thinking to myself, I need 91 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 1: to get a new phone. And I was so excited. 92 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:54,719 Speaker 1: I was enthralled because Facebook and Twitter and Instagram, the 93 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,840 Speaker 1: biggest social media platforms in that sort of twenty ten 94 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:02,640 Speaker 1: through to twenty fourteen stage, they were free. You got 95 00:05:02,680 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: free data when you signed up for this plan or 96 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: that plan, and I didn't since the insidiousness of it. 97 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,320 Speaker 1: It's not free because they want to give us something 98 00:05:12,360 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 1: because it's nice. It's free because these platforms know that 99 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: the more it's free, the more people will use it. 100 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: The more people use it, the more they build their platforms, 101 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,479 Speaker 1: the more compelled we are to use it, the more 102 00:05:21,520 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 1: it becomes ubiquitous. It's absolutely everywhere, and of course now 103 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: we've seen where we've landed Charlie, listening to your story 104 00:05:33,120 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: makes me wonder how your perspective on kids and tech 105 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: has changed since you started this process. I mean, it 106 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 1: seems to me like you looked down the road and 107 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:45,320 Speaker 1: saw something that a lot of other people were equivocating 108 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:50,200 Speaker 1: on or were actually embracing completely. Have you had any surprises? 109 00:05:50,279 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 1: Has your perspective changed since you started this? 110 00:05:54,720 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: So my perspective originally around kids in tech was sort 111 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,839 Speaker 2: of nothing, and then it became dead set fear in 112 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,760 Speaker 2: the early sort of twenty tens to fifteen through a 113 00:06:07,839 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 2: number of examples of things that I was involved with 114 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:14,520 Speaker 2: because I was working in media, and I'll explain those 115 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: to you in a second. And then it became once 116 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,920 Speaker 2: I actually got into the difficultness of creating a product, 117 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:27,239 Speaker 2: convincing people that it's worth looking at, and then seeing 118 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,479 Speaker 2: the world start to just spin a little bit differently 119 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:36,039 Speaker 2: in this area, becoming more positive about where we're going 120 00:06:36,080 --> 00:06:39,119 Speaker 2: and where I think we're going. The first thing about 121 00:06:39,120 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 2: the fear was that, you know, working in broadcast, I 122 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:46,239 Speaker 2: would get people in the community who had gone past 123 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,440 Speaker 2: that position of control and being completely out of control 124 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: with their families, with their kids, with engagement with content 125 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 2: and they would be nowhere near a solution and absolutely 126 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,680 Speaker 2: no understanding of what they could do to fix the problem. 127 00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: And they would come to me because they would see 128 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,680 Speaker 2: me as the public tech guy that well, he'll know. 129 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 2: And I remember standing at the chiefest staff desk at 130 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:16,280 Speaker 2: nine News one day at about five forty pm and 131 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: six o'clock news. It's still a major news bullet but 132 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: back those days sort of twenty thirteen, this occurred. That 133 00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,000 Speaker 2: was the key thing, that was the main news piece 134 00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 2: of the day. And there was a woman on the 135 00:07:28,760 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 2: phone to me in absolute tears because her daughter, who 136 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 2: was about sixteen, hadn't left her bedroom for the past 137 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: four or five days because someone created a Facebook page 138 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: about her, completely bullied, cyber bullying her in the worst 139 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 2: possible way. So they morphed a face onto a naked body. 140 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:50,200 Speaker 2: They've done all of this terrible stuff. This girl hadn't 141 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 2: left her room and a mum was worried because the kid, 142 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 2: in mum's opinion, was suicidal. She's crying to me saying, 143 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 2: and I could hear I could hear this girl opening 144 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:05,000 Speaker 2: the door and screaming at her mom down the hallway 145 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,800 Speaker 2: that it's you know that nothing is worth anything anymore, 146 00:08:08,920 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: and this is wrong and it's worth as bad as 147 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 2: you could you could imagine it. And I'm standing there 148 00:08:15,080 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 2: on the phone to her, going, well, what's the problem. 149 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 2: I mean, why is the page still lot? How long 150 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:22,120 Speaker 2: is the page? But she said, I've been up for 151 00:08:22,160 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: three or four days. They keep flagging it. It doesn't 152 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 2: get taken down. It was a Facebook page, mind you. 153 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: And I said, okay, fine, just just just wait there. 154 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:33,560 Speaker 2: Let me see if I can make a phone call. 155 00:08:33,600 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 2: And I rang. I won't say who, but somebody, very 156 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 2: very senior at Facebook. It's now called Meta. And I said, okay, look, 157 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 2: I'm standing over the desk from the cheaper staff. This 158 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: is the story. It's running a story number three in 159 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 2: twenty five minutes unless this page is taken down in 160 00:08:50,760 --> 00:08:53,599 Speaker 2: three minutes. And they said, oh, we can't do it, 161 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: and I said, okay, well, well i'll speak to you 162 00:08:56,320 --> 00:09:00,480 Speaker 2: after after the story runs. Three minutes later, the page 163 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,760 Speaker 2: was taken down. So this page had been up for 164 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 2: four days. This teenager was in the emotional state. She 165 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,640 Speaker 2: was in the mum was in a similar emotional state. 166 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:12,520 Speaker 2: And I'm listening to all of this, and then with 167 00:09:12,600 --> 00:09:15,400 Speaker 2: a one phone call to one person less than three 168 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: minutes the pages down, and I thought to myself, there 169 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:21,880 Speaker 2: is something very, very wrong with everything that is going 170 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,480 Speaker 2: on here. This is one example. Where are we going 171 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:28,960 Speaker 2: from here with this? And what is everyone else going 172 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: to do that doesn't find a way to contact people 173 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,080 Speaker 2: like me who can actually help. And with all of 174 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 2: that in the back of my mind, that was sort 175 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,080 Speaker 2: of one of the most extreme examples, and that really 176 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,319 Speaker 2: set things off and set me thinking about how bad 177 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: the community was going to be for our children in 178 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 2: the future. Once device has got more powerful, got faster, 179 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:55,439 Speaker 2: better connected, once more people got them younger ages, and 180 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 2: that's where we That's where I went off from there, 181 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 2: And I had mother smaller examples, all sorts, but that 182 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 2: was sort of the most extreme one at the time, 183 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: and I haven't I don't get those as many anymore. 184 00:10:12,160 --> 00:10:14,000 Speaker 2: I don't get them like that anymore. I still get 185 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 2: asked for help in various ways, but the reach for 186 00:10:17,679 --> 00:10:20,160 Speaker 2: the solution is a much shorter one. It's not as 187 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 2: extreme as that anymore. And that gives me a lot 188 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:23,439 Speaker 2: of confidence. 189 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon, there's a whole lot of people who 190 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,120 Speaker 1: are wishing that they had that same phone number of 191 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 1: that same person and had the capacity to make that 192 00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: kind of a threat. I mean, it's just so hard 193 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,000 Speaker 1: to get action from those major tech companies no matter 194 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: how much you report, the system is fundamentally broken. When 195 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: you talk to parents today, Charlie, what's the general response 196 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: what a parent's saying to you. Is it just I 197 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,400 Speaker 1: want my kids off the screen or I'm worried about 198 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,840 Speaker 1: their safety. What's the standard line that you hear from 199 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,439 Speaker 1: parents day in day out about kids in tech. 200 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 2: Well, I think they think that everything's okay, right. I 201 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: think that this feeling that everything's okay, and it comes 202 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 2: from the behavior of the kids when you give them 203 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:11,319 Speaker 2: these devices, right. So, I honestly I don't have any 204 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:15,520 Speaker 2: ill feeling to parents about the challenges that kids are 205 00:11:15,559 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 2: going through, the bad decisions that are being made about them. 206 00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:21,440 Speaker 2: But one I look at parents today and we've got 207 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,200 Speaker 2: more of them in the family, more parents in the 208 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 2: family working to pay the mortgage than ever before. So 209 00:11:27,080 --> 00:11:29,920 Speaker 2: there's all of those kinds of financial challenges. They are 210 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 2: being bombarded with this area of their life that they 211 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,319 Speaker 2: never experience growing up, and this is something that changes monthly. 212 00:11:38,520 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 2: Like kick a platform, any platform you want Snapchat or 213 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:44,960 Speaker 2: Instagram or whatever it is. There is more change going 214 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 2: on within that platform, not just the whole tech industry. 215 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 2: Within that platform, then I have ever seen within a 216 00:11:53,840 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 2: software program, Right, So Snapchatti do something one way and 217 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 2: then you'll learn it, you'll understand it, you'll build rules 218 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 2: around it. And these are the parents who are engaged. 219 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,800 Speaker 2: And then three months later they'll change it, well, adds something, 220 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 2: and then the parents have got to go and learn 221 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,080 Speaker 2: it all over again. And they're trying to do for 222 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 2: one child the same for the next child who's two 223 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,080 Speaker 2: years younger, the next child who's probably two years younger. 224 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 2: But it's changed consistently through that entire life development of 225 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 2: that product. 226 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: I'm going to sound I'm going to sound so old 227 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: saying this, Charlie. But even podcasts, whether you listen to 228 00:12:31,480 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or Spotify or wherever you listen to them, 229 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:36,559 Speaker 1: that the operating system keeps on changing. And I'm like, 230 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:38,520 Speaker 1: hang on, I just figured out how to listen to 231 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: my podcast and the way it works for me, and 232 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,160 Speaker 1: now it's changed. Once you throw in the stuff that 233 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,840 Speaker 1: the adolescents are doing, what the teenagers are doing. Yeah, 234 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: it's monumental and like you said, it's just this rolling, forward, moving, 235 00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 1: progressing thing that parents. I mean, the majority of parents 236 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: that I speak to are worried about their kid's device usage. 237 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: They're worried about what they're taking photos of or what 238 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:05,720 Speaker 1: they're accessing on their phones. But they're also kind of 239 00:13:06,440 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 1: the kids become what's the word. They become fairly passive. 240 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:12,840 Speaker 1: They become pretty easy to deal with. You put a 241 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: screen in front of their face, and all of a sudden, 242 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: things are calm, things are quiet. Yeah, everything's taken care of. 243 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:20,040 Speaker 1: And when, like you said, when parents are facing the 244 00:13:20,040 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: precious that they're already facing, sometimes that feels good. Again, not 245 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,079 Speaker 1: to bag up parents. I do it myself from time 246 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,680 Speaker 1: to time because I just need a break. Every now 247 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,440 Speaker 1: and again. I want to lay on the bed and read. 248 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: Well again, I'm old school. I want to lay on 249 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 1: the bed and read a book, and the kids more 250 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 1: interested in watching something on Disney Plus. Let me ask 251 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: you this, Let's talk about device management. You've developed a 252 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: phone that is literally about device management to overcome many 253 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: of the challenges that today's apps, platforms, and hardware the 254 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: phones themselves put into our children's way. That is not 255 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: always in their best interests. Tell us this is your 256 00:13:56,720 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: opportunity for like a one and a half two minute 257 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:00,880 Speaker 1: add about your GM phone. What did you develop it? 258 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,760 Speaker 1: Why is it different? Because this is the thing that 259 00:14:04,920 --> 00:14:07,079 Speaker 1: parents need to, I guess, get their head around in 260 00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: order to keep their kids safe. 261 00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. I looked at the market and I sort of 262 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:16,079 Speaker 2: took twenty years of understanding and engaging with technology, and 263 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: I was quite aghast at what was out there, and 264 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 2: I found that solutions that sort of worked were quite 265 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:26,119 Speaker 2: expensive from a point of view. There was some commercial 266 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 2: solutions out there that you pay five ten dollars a 267 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:31,320 Speaker 2: month and you could have this, and I thought that 268 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 2: was a bit expensive for a service, and I sort 269 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 2: of thought, well, I don't want something that is going 270 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 2: to involve parents having to make big financial commitments to 271 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,440 Speaker 2: this area. It should just be something that is just 272 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,960 Speaker 2: you know, below this age, you get this, it's cost effective, 273 00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: you don't have to pay a lot of money for it, 274 00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:51,400 Speaker 2: and then you know that you've got control of what 275 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 2: your kids have seen. So that's the first thing. The 276 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:57,760 Speaker 2: second thing was that I went, well, what do kids need? Well, 277 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 2: at the heart of everything was connectivity. Parents want to 278 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:02,040 Speaker 2: be connected to their kids, and the kids want to 279 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:04,000 Speaker 2: be connected to their parents and then also connected to 280 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,840 Speaker 2: their friends as well. How do you manage that? Well, 281 00:15:06,920 --> 00:15:08,960 Speaker 2: I thought, well, you just got to give parents a 282 00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,920 Speaker 2: very simple platform that they can remotely turn things on 283 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: and turn things off. Trap kids manage who's calling them 284 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 2: and texting them, and who they are calling and texting, 285 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: and it's just got to be really simple for the 286 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 2: parent to use. And we thought if we start with 287 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 2: that and then we sit back and listen, then we're 288 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 2: going to have parents start to tell us well, we 289 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:33,480 Speaker 2: like that, but we want that to do this as well. 290 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 2: Oh and by the way, I found that when I 291 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,360 Speaker 2: did this, it didn't do what I wanted to I 292 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,000 Speaker 2: wanted to do this. Can you change that? And if 293 00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 2: you start listening to them and start tweaking it from there, 294 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 2: you're going to get it. You're going to have the 295 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: parents having something they want, the kids have something they want, 296 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,120 Speaker 2: they have the connectivity they can you can allow them 297 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 2: games and you can. I mean one parent came to 298 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 2: us and said, yeah, my kid uses your phone as 299 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,200 Speaker 2: the screen for displaying what he's drone is seeing as 300 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 2: he's flying it around the backyard. I thought, great, So 301 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,000 Speaker 2: here's the technology. The kid wants a drone, the screen 302 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: needs to be part of the drone experience, but the 303 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: parent is able to manage that bit better because they're 304 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 2: using our phone as that screen. Awesome. So we're enabling 305 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:18,160 Speaker 2: the technology, but we're not allowing the technology to have 306 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: unfettered access to everything else. It's just the drone experience 307 00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 2: that the kids they would get. And then I thought 308 00:16:23,120 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 2: about where they're going next. We'll parents want to makesh 309 00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 2: kids have got money, So we put an NFC chip 310 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 2: onto the phone so you can tap and pay with 311 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,880 Speaker 2: your bank app and that kind of thing. There's different 312 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 2: apps around. Spriggy, for example, has an app you can 313 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: put on for pocket money and stuff, and you can 314 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 2: use the tap and pay on that to tap and 315 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 2: pay with the phone. And you were just thought, you know, 316 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 2: no camera. I thought, God, if I see another fourteen 317 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 2: year old or twelve year old taken selfies with their 318 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:59,480 Speaker 2: kids and filming each other doing stupid stuff, Well, if 319 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,160 Speaker 2: I take the or away, they can't do that. They 320 00:17:01,160 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: can do the stupid stuff once they get a bit older. 321 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 2: And that's and that was and then the other thing 322 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 2: we thought about was, Okay, that's the extra handset. Just 323 00:17:09,560 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 2: we thought, well, we've got to make this and make 324 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,919 Speaker 2: it available to everyone worldwide. It's not just an Australian thing. 325 00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 2: This is a global problem. So we have to make 326 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 2: it available in all the big developed countries, and then 327 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 2: we have to go with further than that. So we're 328 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 2: selling in the UK, Europe, USA, Australia. We get people 329 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 2: from outside of those countries buying from the online marketplaces 330 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: that are selling them in those countries like the Middle East, 331 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,760 Speaker 2: for example, we sell a lot of phones out of 332 00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,240 Speaker 2: Europe into the Middle East, and then this year and 333 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: next year we'll go even further places like India and 334 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 2: Mexico and those kinds of places where there's a lot 335 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 2: of kids, and there's when you actually look at the 336 00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 2: issues around parents and kids and looking at the wrong 337 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,040 Speaker 2: content and all that kind of those issues are in 338 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,359 Speaker 2: those countries, and in my opinion, just because you're not 339 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:00,479 Speaker 2: living in a wealthy country, it doesn't mean that your 340 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 2: kids should have access to the wrong kind of content 341 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 2: if you choose them not to. So we're making sure 342 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 2: GMI is available as soon as we can in those 343 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: countries too. 344 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:11,040 Speaker 1: Okay, so you've got a phone that doesn't have a camera, 345 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: it has access to apps out of the Google Play Store, 346 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:16,199 Speaker 1: but those are all going to be monitored via the 347 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:18,720 Speaker 1: app on the parent's phone to make sure that they've 348 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,640 Speaker 1: got access to the stuff that's okay, and they don't 349 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:22,560 Speaker 1: have access to the stuff that parents are judging to 350 00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:27,359 Speaker 1: be not satisfactory. And their phone is essentially controlled from 351 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 1: the parents app on their phone. Am I getting that right? 352 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: Correct? Correct? And the other thing is when you deep 353 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,120 Speaker 2: dive into all these parental controls on all these other platforms, 354 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 2: Like Apple's got a really good one with the screen 355 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,160 Speaker 2: screen time, but you've got to have an Apple iPhone 356 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,000 Speaker 2: or iPad to manage it, right. 357 00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:45,639 Speaker 1: So, yeah, and the kids still do get around. 358 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,280 Speaker 2: It, they still get around it. And then with the 359 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 2: Android system, guess what if you're running the family Link 360 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 2: system at the age of thirteen, yes, singing a happy 361 00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 2: birthday to your kid, and this happened in our family, 362 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: you get this a little lord that says Family Link 363 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 2: has been discontinued on this device. You know a second, 364 00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: I didn't want that to happen. No, at thirteen, the 365 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: kid could turn family Link off. So with our system, 366 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:10,120 Speaker 2: you canna have an iPhone. You're gonna have an Android 367 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 2: as a parent, and there's no auto age conclusion to 368 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:18,520 Speaker 2: the service. You as the parent, decide when it's turned off. 369 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:20,680 Speaker 2: You can have a running till they're sixteen or seventeen 370 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: if you choose to. It's really acute. And in the 371 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 2: United States, we've got families over there who have been 372 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:27,960 Speaker 2: testing our advice. Is one of them. The kid has 373 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 2: got the kid's got massive anxiety issues and the mummy 374 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,560 Speaker 2: Mulmyn said, she's just gone off to college. She would 375 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:38,320 Speaker 2: never have gone to college if it wasn't for your 376 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 2: phone and all of micro steps that she took in 377 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:44,679 Speaker 2: leaving the house with your phone, knowing that we were 378 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 2: a phone call away and we could track her and 379 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: we could we could go pick her up if something happened. 380 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 2: But all of these life development skills that this kid 381 00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:55,959 Speaker 2: has learned, she did it with our phone in her pocket, 382 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:01,920 Speaker 2: and the parents were able to remotely support that digital experience. 383 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: And now she's gone off to college and you're sitting 384 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:10,000 Speaker 2: there thinking we helped enable that, right, Like, what would 385 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 2: that kid have done? With that kid and I'd have 386 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,160 Speaker 2: got through college. Maybe they're going they would have gone, 387 00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 2: maybe not as early as they would have wanted, but 388 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 2: we helped enable that and that's really cool. 389 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is. We'll link to the GME phone 390 00:20:21,320 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: in our show notes to the people who want to 391 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: know more about the device can five links and check 392 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:36,520 Speaker 1: that out, Charlie, Beyond just managing the device, which is 393 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:38,760 Speaker 1: really what that conversation was, what do you think of 394 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,840 Speaker 1: the key conversations that parents need to have with their 395 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: kids so that the kids can be safe online and 396 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:46,600 Speaker 1: have the digital literacy that we're always banging on about. 397 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,320 Speaker 2: Well, and that's the challenge, right. We keep sticking more 398 00:20:50,359 --> 00:20:52,720 Speaker 2: devices in front of them, like laptops for schools and 399 00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 2: all these kinds of things, and then at the same 400 00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:58,119 Speaker 2: time we're saying, oh, yeah, keep using these devices. By 401 00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 2: by the way, there's a lot of danger in them. 402 00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:01,760 Speaker 2: If you, I mean, if you're a ten year obviousitting 403 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 2: and they go, well, hang on a second, is it's 404 00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:06,359 Speaker 2: dangerous or should I be using it? I think at 405 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 2: the end of the day, what we want parents to 406 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:10,959 Speaker 2: do is to use some kind of parental control, like 407 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:16,000 Speaker 2: using our phone or not somebody else's phone or an 408 00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,000 Speaker 2: Apple or good or whatever. Use it and understand it 409 00:21:19,040 --> 00:21:21,560 Speaker 2: as best as you can do, not ever let them 410 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,480 Speaker 2: have unfettered access to the Internet on any device at 411 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,199 Speaker 2: all ever, Right, that's the first thing. Second to that, 412 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:31,560 Speaker 2: you've got to sit down and make the time to 413 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,320 Speaker 2: talk to them about this kind of stuff. You've got 414 00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 2: to get your kids to a position where they can 415 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,960 Speaker 2: come and talk to you, good or bad about what's 416 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,960 Speaker 2: going on in their digital life, and they have that 417 00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,199 Speaker 2: level of trust where they can come and talk to 418 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 2: you in the same way as anything else bad or 419 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 2: good that's happening in their life. They can sit there 420 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,439 Speaker 2: and talk to you about this as well, because you 421 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 2: will learn from those conversations what they're interested in in, 422 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 2: what they're doing, and what you're comfortable with and what 423 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,880 Speaker 2: you're not comfortable with. Things that get through those cracks 424 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,640 Speaker 2: that you have put in place, you will learn about it. 425 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,480 Speaker 2: You'll also learn what other kids and other parents are 426 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: doing in this space. Some of it that I learned 427 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:16,240 Speaker 2: about absolutely horrifies me, and other bits that I learn 428 00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 2: about these are through my own family connections and my 429 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:23,640 Speaker 2: own children's experiences. I'm really pleased to hear parents out 430 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: there are taking initiative and making these hard decisions, but 431 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 2: you will learn what they are the catalyst for us, 432 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:35,400 Speaker 2: for Chela and I was probably six nine months ago. 433 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 2: Our sixteen year old we're talking about parental controls and 434 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:41,760 Speaker 2: not letting our eleven year old and thirteen year old 435 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 2: do certain things. And the sixteen year old this was 436 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,560 Speaker 2: in the car. Family five are in the car. Sixteen 437 00:22:47,600 --> 00:22:50,359 Speaker 2: year old turns the eleven and twelve and the thirteen 438 00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 2: year old who are complaining about the parental controls and 439 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,880 Speaker 2: not being allowed to access this, and she said, look, 440 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 2: it's really annoying what dad's job is. But you get 441 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:02,280 Speaker 2: to my age and you look back on when I 442 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 2: was at your age and you actually think, yeah, there's 443 00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,560 Speaker 2: a lot of merit in what mum and dad was saying, 444 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 2: and I'm better off for it. 445 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,520 Speaker 1: Was yeah, voice of experience, love it, sixteen year old. 446 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 1: My olders took a little bit longer to get there, 447 00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,239 Speaker 1: but it's pretty it's pretty reassuring, it's pretty nice when 448 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,560 Speaker 1: it happens. All right, Charlie, I'd like to do a 449 00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,680 Speaker 1: lightning round with your. Lightning rounds are fun, very very 450 00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: short answers, just quick questions, and feel free to fire 451 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 1: anything at me as well. I'm going to give away 452 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,600 Speaker 1: my answer to the first one. First The very first 453 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 1: ever mobile phone that I owned was an NEC Fire 454 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: though I don't know if you remember that phone. It 455 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: was a tiny, little brick phone. What was your first 456 00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:41,160 Speaker 1: ever mobile phone? 457 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 2: Nokier Thirshy something I don't even remember. 458 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: It sounds like it was a precursor of the Noocky 459 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: fifty one to ten brick that everyone laughs about. 460 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:55,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was very very early, very early. 461 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:57,720 Speaker 1: What's the longest you've ever gone without checking your phone? 462 00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,960 Speaker 2: I'd put my phone away. When I'm not wanting to 463 00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,639 Speaker 2: be around my phone, I put it away. I have 464 00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: a box, so I'd say six hours probably. When I 465 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,439 Speaker 2: don't want my phone to interrupt me, I'll put it 466 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: in a box with the other kids phones and we 467 00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 2: leave it there. What's hours? 468 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: What's the most embarrassing tech failed that you've had while 469 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,280 Speaker 1: you're doing a live TV segment? Has anything just gone 470 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 1: the bottom fallen out on Telly? 471 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,680 Speaker 2: Yes? The worst one. We were doing a robot lawnmower 472 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,879 Speaker 2: and we set this thing up in the studio at 473 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,879 Speaker 2: the Today Show and it was just mowing this synthetic 474 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 2: grass area, and we'd set it all up the way 475 00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: we were told to set it up, but the robot 476 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 2: lawnmer kept wanting to run out of the pen that 477 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 2: we'd set up. And I'm talking with Ben Fordham and 478 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,960 Speaker 2: talking about this robot lawnmower and it's running towards his 479 00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 2: foot and it would have run over his foot had 480 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,000 Speaker 2: he not stomped on the emergency stop button. And this 481 00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:00,800 Speaker 2: is all on live TV, and I was looking at it, 482 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:04,760 Speaker 2: just going I almost I almost took Ben's foot today. 483 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, probably not going to sell so many of 484 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,240 Speaker 1: those robot lawnmllers if that had to happen. 485 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:11,560 Speaker 2: They're much better today than they were ten years ago. 486 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:13,199 Speaker 2: I'll leave it at that. 487 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,080 Speaker 1: What app would you permanently delete from existence if you could? 488 00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:23,040 Speaker 2: TikTok? Absolutely no question of that. I would get rid 489 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:28,159 Speaker 2: of TikTok so fast. I would burn the server farm 490 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,320 Speaker 2: down forever if I had the choice. I think that 491 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 2: app is the worst app for so many reasons, across 492 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 2: so many different areas of analysis and discussion, from privacy settings, 493 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,440 Speaker 2: from the general happiness of people who use it and 494 00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: how it can go wrong for them. It is just 495 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 2: it is. So We're in the United States where they 496 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 2: just last couple of weeks and they shut TikTok off 497 00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,080 Speaker 2: for a day old. Yeah, yeah, well that's it. My 498 00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 2: sixteen year old who begrudgingly she uses it and I 499 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:07,880 Speaker 2: don't want it to but she's sixteen so she can 500 00:26:08,000 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 2: use it. She says to me, Dad, I've got an 501 00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,760 Speaker 2: Australian TikTok account, but I'm off I've been turned off 502 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 2: when Yeah, so you know that TikTok knows exactly where 503 00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:18,359 Speaker 2: in the world you are at any one time, don't you. 504 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 2: And she was just like right, and I was like, yeah, 505 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:23,720 Speaker 2: well I know your location, that's not all I know 506 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 2: about you. That's one example. That's why TikTok's not working now. 507 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 2: So that's it. That's the probably too long an answer 508 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 2: for what you're looking for. But I would permanently get 509 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:35,440 Speaker 2: rid of TikTok. 510 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:35,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 511 00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 2: For me. 512 00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: The biggest concern about TikTok, and that's the one that 513 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:39,399 Speaker 1: I would get rid of as well, is the socio 514 00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:42,720 Speaker 1: political ramifications of having this thing. So if the CCP 515 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: wants something to happen, they just escalated into the algorithm 516 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:48,120 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, everybody's on that side because 517 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: there's so much material. It's just it's a propaganda machine. 518 00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: Designed by the CCP for China's ends. If China decides 519 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,800 Speaker 1: that they want to invade Taiwan, I would imagine that 520 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,040 Speaker 1: they would start to put a whole lot of propaganda 521 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:03,640 Speaker 1: out on TikTok, and when the young generation is flooded 522 00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: with it, they start to believe it. I just think 523 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:10,119 Speaker 1: it's a devastating and dangerous app. From a socio political perspective. 524 00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 2: TikTok is not good for so many different reasons, and 525 00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 2: that's one of them. 526 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a lightning red And I know this is 527 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,720 Speaker 1: a parenting podcast, not a political podcast. But if they 528 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,480 Speaker 1: can do that when it comes to the politics of 529 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: the world, global politics, it's no surprise that they can 530 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:27,240 Speaker 1: do all sorts of things and do allow all sorts 531 00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 1: all sorts of things when it comes to our young 532 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: people and their well being or lack thereof. Last one 533 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,479 Speaker 1: for you in the lightning round, before we get back 534 00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:35,920 Speaker 1: to a couple more serious questions and wrap things up, Charlie, 535 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:37,679 Speaker 1: if you could use only We're going to go in 536 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: the other direction now. If you could use only one 537 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:41,400 Speaker 1: app for the rest of your life, what would it be? 538 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:42,800 Speaker 1: What is your favorite app? 539 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:47,159 Speaker 2: The one that I use all the time is maps. 540 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,440 Speaker 2: I use maps all the time, and I use it 541 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,560 Speaker 2: to get places faster, and I use it to get 542 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,080 Speaker 2: places on public transport because I love public transport. And 543 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 2: I use it for learning about businesses and little small 544 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:05,359 Speaker 2: businesses that I can try and give business to, like 545 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 2: cafes and restaurants and all those kinds of things. And 546 00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,280 Speaker 2: I use it for exploring the world, Like I'll be 547 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,879 Speaker 2: sitting on a bus and I'll be like, going, where's 548 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:16,640 Speaker 2: a good place north of Sydney that's got a beautiful 549 00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:20,080 Speaker 2: beach that allows me to camp in the woods nearby? 550 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,879 Speaker 2: And all that maps Google Maps. 551 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:25,840 Speaker 1: You know what I hadn't thought about the incredible amount 552 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 1: of time that I use maps for. I'm in the 553 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: process sometime this month. I'm supposed to get my new phone, 554 00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:34,800 Speaker 1: the light Phone three, because I'm really trying to reduce 555 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:38,160 Speaker 1: my reliance on technology. But one of the essential things 556 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 1: that it had to have was access to maps. If 557 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 1: I can't get maps, then a phone is useless to me. 558 00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:46,880 Speaker 1: So I hear what you're saying there, Okay, last couple 559 00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 1: of questions for you, looking ahead, let's say five years, 560 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:54,000 Speaker 1: maybe even ten years, what challenges do you think parents 561 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: are going to be facing with tech that we might 562 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,680 Speaker 1: not be considering today, or would you say that it's 563 00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: just going to be more of the same. 564 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:06,080 Speaker 2: I think the ramifications of the poor decisions that we've 565 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,840 Speaker 2: been making and the poor allowances that we've been making 566 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:16,280 Speaker 2: are going to be much more present, and that is 567 00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 2: the impact of these products on our kids is going 568 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 2: to be much more present. So the fifteen year olds 569 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 2: will be twenty and twenty five, for example, five teen 570 00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,360 Speaker 2: years we're going to really really see what those impacts are. 571 00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 2: I don't think we've really got an understanding of what 572 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 2: they are yet. People like yourself obviously much more across 573 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 2: what the likelihoods of those things are going to be 574 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,400 Speaker 2: than I am. That's the first thing I think. I 575 00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: actually do think the world is getting to the point 576 00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:48,920 Speaker 2: where we're turning around to tech as parents and saying 577 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 2: we'll make the decisions here, not you. And you know, 578 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,200 Speaker 2: we've seen Norway bring in these laws. They haven't enacted 579 00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 2: them yet about social media. Australia second, we haven't enacted 580 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:02,520 Speaker 2: them yet, but they're there. I think we're going to 581 00:30:02,560 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 2: see country after country after country dropping those similar kinds 582 00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:10,560 Speaker 2: of rules on their population. And I think as a 583 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 2: group of people, we will be turning to big tech 584 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,960 Speaker 2: and saying, look, mate, we will make the decisions. Thank you. 585 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: Thank you for giving me the opportunity to upload every 586 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 2: single photo I've ever taken and tell me who's in 587 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,840 Speaker 2: them and who I should connect them with and all this. 588 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,239 Speaker 2: Thank you for all of these services. But I'm going 589 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 2: to start making a few more decisions around what's right 590 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 2: for me. And I'll give you one example. Right, So, 591 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: for people who have who look at their screens too often, 592 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,440 Speaker 2: the hardest bit of pulling your screen away from your 593 00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 2: face is immediately when you do it. But I guarantee 594 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: you in the hours and days leading from that point 595 00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 2: of reducing your screen time, you will feel better. You'll 596 00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:00,480 Speaker 2: feel better, and parents should be done doing this, and 597 00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,880 Speaker 2: kids should be doing this, and everyone in the everyone 598 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:04,800 Speaker 2: in the community should be doing it because you will 599 00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:08,239 Speaker 2: feel better and you will have, in my view, a 600 00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:09,520 Speaker 2: happier life from doing it. 601 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, said Charlie. Let's wrap this up. If there 602 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,920 Speaker 1: was just one thing something we would really concentrate on 603 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,640 Speaker 1: in the Family's podcast is as much as there's so 604 00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: much information out there, we can have a nice lengthy 605 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,160 Speaker 1: conversation like this and explore and unpack and play with ideas, 606 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,680 Speaker 1: but sometimes it's nice to distill it down to just 607 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,600 Speaker 1: the one thing. If there was just the one thing, 608 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: the most valuable piece of advice that you could give 609 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:39,360 Speaker 1: to parents who are struggling with their kids in tech. 610 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:41,920 Speaker 1: Maybe it's something that a parent has said to you, 611 00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 1: maybe it's your own advice. What would that one thing 612 00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,320 Speaker 1: be to give them some hope, some reassurance, or some 613 00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,400 Speaker 1: direction as they grapple with the never ending creep of 614 00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: tech into our families lives. 615 00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:56,640 Speaker 2: I think the thing is as hard as this is 616 00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 2: for you as the parent, just remember it's even harder 617 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,440 Speaker 2: for the kid who's going through it, because this desire 618 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,080 Speaker 2: to be using all this technology and apps and services 619 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 2: is part of them wanting to part of them going 620 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:20,080 Speaker 2: through that transition of engagement and positive responses from their 621 00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: parents to engagement positive responses from their peers. It's right, 622 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 2: So they're going through that transition. This is bundled in 623 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 2: with that right, and it makes it really hard for 624 00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:34,920 Speaker 2: them to do things that are different from what everybody 625 00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: else is doing. And I think you when you start 626 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 2: with that understanding, everything that flows on from there will 627 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 2: allow you to have the humility and the positivity towards 628 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:55,239 Speaker 2: working with them versus sitting there and telling them you 629 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:59,120 Speaker 2: know that what they're doing is like a bad thing, 630 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:01,840 Speaker 2: and that right sort of instead of scolding them, you're 631 00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 2: working with them. You're trying to work and engage with 632 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,719 Speaker 2: them and support them. And the more you do that 633 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 2: with them, the better you will be and the better 634 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: that they will be and when you come out of it, 635 00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 2: because it's only a team thing. Really, it is only 636 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 2: a team thing in the level of concentration that we've had. 637 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: By the time they get to the end of high 638 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:22,000 Speaker 2: school and into UNI or not UNI or whatever, that 639 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,040 Speaker 2: so many of them drop off this. And I can 640 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 2: have another conversation with you about why the tech companies 641 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:29,280 Speaker 2: are scared stiff of these laws of no social media 642 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:32,280 Speaker 2: to under sixteens, for example, because they know they know 643 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:34,800 Speaker 2: as soon as they miss the engagement at that age, 644 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:36,760 Speaker 2: they're not getting them at a later age, and that's 645 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,360 Speaker 2: a loss of income. But getting through this stage with 646 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,719 Speaker 2: them and working with them, you will be happier and 647 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:48,720 Speaker 2: so will they. But by doing it collaboratively and positively 648 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,560 Speaker 2: with them, you'll be better off for it, and you 649 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:54,560 Speaker 2: will get through it. 650 00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time, Charlie. Charlie Brown has built a 651 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: career around technology and its impact on families. He's worked 652 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: with Channel nine and now he runs GME Phones. He's 653 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,880 Speaker 1: developed GME phones we'll linked to them in the show notes, 654 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: aiming to balance children's access to technology with parental peace 655 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:17,280 Speaker 1: of mind. Charlie, wish you all the best with the phones, 656 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:18,760 Speaker 1: and thanks so much of the conversation. 657 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,959 Speaker 2: Great to talk to you justin. Look forward to talking 658 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: to you again mate, and appreciate you having me on 659 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 2: the podcast. 660 00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: Pretty sober in conversation and a lot to think about. 661 00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:29,360 Speaker 1: Hopefully it's been helpful for you and the decisions that 662 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: you're making around tech and your family. The Happy Families 663 00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,840 Speaker 1: podcast produced by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media. If you 664 00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: would like more information about the stuff we've talked about, 665 00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: check the show notes and visit Happyfamilies dot com dot au.