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Speaker 1: And it is Friday morning.

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Speaker 2: It is time for the week that was, and joining

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Speaker 2: me in the studio right now. We have got the

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Speaker 2: opposition spokesperson for Health, Bill Yan, Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: How are you, Yeah, very well. We've got the independent

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Speaker 1: member for aralou and Robin Lamley, good.

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Speaker 4: Morning, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: And we've got the Minister for Education Lauren Mosk Good morning,

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Speaker 1: Good morning, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Great to have you all in the studio this morning,

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Speaker 2: and we might go firstly to a bit of an

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Speaker 2: update around COVID. We are expecting there to be a

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Speaker 2: further update a little later this morning, but we do

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Speaker 2: know that there was one extra case of COVID yesterday,

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Speaker 2: a man from lar Jamanu, which really means that we

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Speaker 2: have got COVID in another remote community and still trying

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Speaker 2: to piece together exactly how it's ended up in lar Jermanu.

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Speaker 2: At this point, I think that by looking at it

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Speaker 2: from the outside in, we have managed things quite well

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Speaker 2: in terms of keeping it all under control up until

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Speaker 2: this point, and today we'll get a further idea of

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Speaker 2: how things are looking in larger Manu. Lauren, is there

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Speaker 2: much of a further update from the government at this point.

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Speaker 5: Oh, look, I know that the Health Minister in the

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Speaker 5: Chief Minister will be out later today to provide an

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Speaker 5: update on this. They'll be likely to be in SEMC

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Speaker 5: at the moment, which they've been doing every day from

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Speaker 5: when we've been in sittings. They've obviously had those emergency

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Speaker 5: management meetings and yeah, we'll get that update later this morning.

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Speaker 5: But it's obviously concerning and everybody's working really really hard

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Speaker 5: to get as much information as possible.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I thought it was a great disappointment to hear

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Speaker 4: that there was an actual case in larger Manu. I

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Speaker 4: think everyone was holding out hope that they'd got it wrong,

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Speaker 4: that the wastewater traces were some sort of anomaly, but

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Speaker 4: they weren't, and having one case probably means that there

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Speaker 4: are other cases in larger Manu today. I think the

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Speaker 4: government's done a great job in containing it. You know,

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Speaker 4: the last couple of weeks Binjara and Robinson River, you

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Speaker 4: know that's been handled. So well, let's hope we can

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Speaker 4: get on top of this situation in larger Manu very quickly.

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Speaker 6: I spoke to Natashi yesterday during sittings about Larger Manu,

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Speaker 6: and I'm pretty concerned actually for the region because this

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Speaker 6: time of the year, the people out in communities.

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Speaker 3: They're really mobile, the.

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Speaker 6: Moving between communities, moving between towns, so there's a lot

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Speaker 6: of mobility. So we still don't know how, of course

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Speaker 6: we end up with COVID in Larger Manu, and of

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Speaker 6: course the wastewater is dropping away. We've got positive tests now,

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Speaker 6: so where of the people from larger man who's been

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Speaker 6: or where are they going now? So I know we're

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Speaker 6: doing wastewater teaching at Yunimu and some of those other

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Speaker 6: communities out there and in our springs.

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Speaker 3: I'm really holding my breath at the moment just to

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Speaker 3: see what Renzo.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is the real concern, I suppose, isn't it

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Speaker 2: is that we do have such a transient population. Everybody

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Speaker 2: moves around a lot. And what this has shown is

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Speaker 2: that you know that quite unwittingly, it's gone from from

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Speaker 2: near Catherine to ending up then in Larger Manu, which

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Speaker 2: I believe is about five hundred kilometers away, so it

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Speaker 2: is quite a distance, but it does demonstrate that we've

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Speaker 2: got a very transient population and that once theys things

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Speaker 2: on the move, we've really got to do our best

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Speaker 2: to contain it and tried to keep things just in

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Speaker 2: those communities, like in the community that it's currently in.

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Speaker 6: The lady from Kirby's who owns Kirbys and Catherine, said

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Speaker 6: that some of the patrons that were in on that

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Speaker 6: day were from Lajamanu and some of those remote communities

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Speaker 6: and then they gone from Kirby's back out those communities.

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Speaker 6: So there's one link, and there's also that link then.

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Speaker 3: Through Binjari and Rock Hole and further afield.

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Speaker 1: Well, we'll keep a very close eye on that.

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Speaker 2: And the one thing that people were keeping an incredibly

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Speaker 2: close eye on earlier in the week was those COVID escapees.

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Speaker 2: The Northern Territory opposition I know was demanding more detail

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Speaker 2: about security measures at Darwin's main quarantine center following on

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Speaker 2: from those, well the escape of the three young fellows

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Speaker 2: earlier in the week, but then there was also an

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Speaker 2: escape over the course of the weekend and that person

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Speaker 2: allegedly escaped and then went into Mitchell's. Now, by the

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Speaker 2: sounds of things, everybody, all of those licensed premises were

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Speaker 2: doing the right thing in terms of making sure people

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Speaker 2: were checking in and not letting people in unless they

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Speaker 2: had but it does really make you worry that. You know,

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Speaker 2: we understand that it's not a jail out there at

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Speaker 2: Howard Springs, and nobody is suggesting that it should be.

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Speaker 2: But you want to keep people in there, particularly when

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Speaker 2: there is that real fear of spread.

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Speaker 4: You can't have people absconding. You can't. Years ago I

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Speaker 4: set up alcohol mandatory treatment in Alice Springs and we

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Speaker 4: had people absconding all the time. And they're opposition, the

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Speaker 4: labor opposition used to beat me up at every opportunity

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Speaker 4: about these people flying over the fans from alcohol mandatory treatment,

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Speaker 4: and here we have the same thing happening at Howard Springs.

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Speaker 4: I think they've lost their gold star status, people jumping

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Speaker 4: over the fens and potentially infecting you know, the whole

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Speaker 4: of Darwin. I don't know about you, but I was

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Speaker 4: thinking about running down to coals and buying some food,

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Speaker 4: thinking we'll not to go into lockdown.

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Speaker 1: Well, that was the worry that people had.

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Speaker 2: We had a lot of people getting in contact with

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Speaker 2: us here at the station that were really concerned, and

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Speaker 2: especially as they were driving into work, there was cars

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Speaker 2: being stopped. The police are obviously having to search through

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Speaker 2: those cars to make sure that there was nobody or

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Speaker 2: hiding in a boosh or doing the wrong thing.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I know a little bit about security.

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Speaker 6: K I suppose in a previous life I hadn't using

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Speaker 6: corrections absconding. Ye, a little bit about people absconding. Been

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Speaker 6: drawn over the coals for that. But look, you've got

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Speaker 6: to think about the checks and balances that are happening

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Speaker 6: out there at Howard Springs that allows people to just

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Speaker 6: go over the fence. I need to really tighten up

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Speaker 6: security because this is where the league will come from

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Speaker 6: if somebody you look, worst case scenario this somebody with

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Speaker 6: COVID goes over the fence and goes into Mitchell Street

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Speaker 6: and then infects everybody in Darwin.

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Speaker 2: That was the worry I reckon like, obviously they were

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Speaker 2: all the concern, but that was the worry that I

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Speaker 2: understand was the twenty seven year old band who'd escaped

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Speaker 2: over the fence.

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Speaker 1: Last week Friday.

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Speaker 2: Now we'd reported on this earlier in the week on

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Speaker 2: Monday that then one of the licensed venues ended up

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Speaker 2: sort of having to lock everybody in for a short

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Speaker 2: period of time while they well, the police made sure

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Speaker 2: that they that they got that person, and obviously took

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Speaker 2: them back.

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Speaker 1: I'm assuming out to Howard Springs.

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Speaker 2: But what I wonder as well is is there a

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Speaker 2: penalty or what you know, what happens if somebody does

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Speaker 2: abscond and is that something that that the government's now

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Speaker 2: looking into.

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Speaker 5: Well, there's obviously finds Katie for people who are doing

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Speaker 5: the wrong thing, and there is CCTV cameras out there,

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Speaker 5: and I want to thank police. I think they you know,

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Speaker 5: they did a tremendous job, I know, you know, and

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Speaker 5: used to get out pretty quickly. There was those rope

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Speaker 5: blocks there, there was cards being searched, and they found

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Speaker 5: those absconders pretty quickly. I've obviously done a couple of

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Speaker 5: days myself in so you can't I didn't well toddline

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Speaker 5: there so had It's might be bit difficult moments, but

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Speaker 5: look at me. Police do the rounds in there, as

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Speaker 5: do other team members, so you know they are doing

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Speaker 5: a phenomenal job. They did get on it really quickly,

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Speaker 5: you know, and there are all sorts of considerations like

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Speaker 5: whether people have to start their time again, and those

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Speaker 5: sorts of things that you know, Sempsey and others will

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Speaker 5: be and those people that evolved in the operations will

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Speaker 5: have to be considering, so you know, people have to

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Speaker 5: do the right thing. I mean, you will be likely

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Speaker 5: be penalized for it, but also you know you may

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Speaker 5: end up serving, yeah, having to spend more time in

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Speaker 5: there because you've had to reset you.

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Speaker 6: But I suppose what are they actually doing though at

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Speaker 6: Howard Springs to get that message out to people not

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Speaker 6: to do this?

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Speaker 3: That's number one.

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Speaker 6: You've got one of what's running through somebody's mind with

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Speaker 6: one day to go on quarantine, they've had all the

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Speaker 6: tests that all some want to go over the fence.

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Speaker 6: Where is there a communication between the staff and the

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Speaker 6: management they're at Howard Springs to support those people who

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Speaker 6: are in quarantine who may be giving these stupid ideas

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Speaker 6: some thought and actually knocking it on the head. That's again,

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Speaker 6: that's the person that comes to my mind because that's

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Speaker 6: what we used to do in corrections.

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Speaker 4: It's important they're not prisoners, are they. I mean I

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Speaker 4: was talking to someone after that occurred the other day

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Speaker 4: that comes from a remote community and they said, you

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Speaker 4: know a lot of these people will be used to

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Speaker 4: drinking every day, smoking dope every day, smoking cigarettes every day.

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Speaker 4: You know, going into how it springs into confinement. They're

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Speaker 4: potentially some of these people and it'd.

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Speaker 1: Be hard for a lot of people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, would suggest you know, going into that environment for

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Speaker 2: a two week period, regardless of where you're from or

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Speaker 2: you know, regardless of your background, it will be tough going.

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Speaker 2: But I think at the end of the day, it's

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Speaker 2: to try to protect the whole community, particularly when you

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Speaker 2: look at the fact that we have just seen in Binjari,

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Speaker 2: you know rock Hole now larje Amounus a concern and

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Speaker 2: in Catherine when we talking about the ramifications being enormous,

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Speaker 2: particularly if you have to see a whole you know,

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Speaker 2: a whole town lockdown then so it's tough.

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Speaker 5: It is tough, and I think, you know, we've the

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Speaker 5: people in Binjari, Robinson, River, Lajemunu, like I'm just thinking

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Speaker 5: of them. It's it's incredibly hard. I mean, we know

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Speaker 5: we've had very short periods here in Darwin around you

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Speaker 5: know lockdown and in the early.

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Speaker 1: Days and on lockout.

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Speaker 5: That's an incredibly hard thing for people to be confined

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Speaker 5: to their houses when they are used to being able

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Speaker 5: to spend most of their day with other community members,

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Speaker 5: family members, and then yeah, I just think they're doing

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Speaker 5: a tremendous job on the whole out there those communities,

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Speaker 5: and it would be really tough, particularly when you know

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Speaker 5: you've got cases in the community and it's a scary thing.

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Speaker 6: Territories today right now probably want to know what government

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Speaker 6: are doing to stop this from happening again, because I

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Speaker 6: said it puts all territories at richk.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, what's happening.

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Speaker 6: What's happening security wise right now today at Howard Springs

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Speaker 6: to stop repeat of this because if we're going to

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Speaker 6: get more people from communities having to come in and

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Speaker 6: quarantine as we see COVID moving around air remote areas,

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Speaker 6: we have that risk of more people getting I suppose

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Speaker 6: a little bit towey and wanting something and not being

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Speaker 6: able to get it, and the first reaction is well,

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Speaker 6: I'm just going to go and do it.

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Speaker 3: So that's what we need to address well.

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Speaker 2: And I do know that the police Commissioner had announced

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Speaker 2: throughout that press conference straight after the incident that there

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Speaker 2: would be additional CCTV cameras, so hopefully that makes a difference.

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Speaker 2: It does also sort of go to show you it's

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Speaker 2: such a massive area out there and there is so

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Speaker 2: much bushland around it, which has its pros in the

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Speaker 2: sense that you know, we're not doing hotel quarantine like

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Speaker 2: we've seen in other states. But the negative is then

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Speaker 2: if somebody gets out that they're quite difficult to locate quickly,

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Speaker 2: I would suspect we will take a very short break.

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Speaker 2: You are listening to Mix one O four point nine's

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Speaker 2: three sixty. It is the week that was also broadcasting

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Speaker 2: on AHA in Alice. Well, it is just on twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes after nine o'clock and in the studio with me

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Speaker 2: this morning, we've got Lauren Moss, Robin Lamley and Bill

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Speaker 2: Yan And it's been a very busy week, the last

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Speaker 2: parliamentary sittings for the year.

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Speaker 1: And I'll tell you what.

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Speaker 2: There was some interesting moments throughout the week, but one

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Speaker 2: which got quite hot under the caller yesterday was when

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Speaker 2: the government used its numbers to shut down that parliamentary

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Speaker 2: debate on the Privileges Committee report into disgraced MLA Mark Turner.

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Speaker 2: It happened yesterday and saw the Deputy Opposition leader Jared

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Speaker 2: Maylee thrown out.

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Speaker 1: Now you guys were all in there. I wasn't what

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Speaker 1: exactly happened.

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Speaker 6: Well, Jared bought the motion forward in the morning YEP

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Speaker 6: for that report now standing order to say that the

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Speaker 6: report has to be delivered as soon as possible to Parliament.

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Speaker 6: So it was released publicly a week or so ago.

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Speaker 6: The government hadn't brought the report to Parliament. Jared bought

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Speaker 6: the report to Parliament yesterday morning as a member of

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Speaker 6: that committee and.

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Speaker 3: Got shut down not to be heard. So it was

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Speaker 3: it was really really obvious.

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Speaker 6: That the government didn't actually want to talk about that

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Speaker 6: and certainly didn't want to hear any bad news about

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Speaker 6: that report, and debate was effectively gagged.

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Speaker 3: Jared was pretty upset.

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Speaker 6: He went out and I think he just got more

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Speaker 6: and more upset when he went out and he came

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Speaker 6: back in and he said he gave the Chief Minister

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Speaker 6: a spray because he was pretty angry that he couldn't

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Speaker 6: debate and Parliament couldn't talk about the contents of that report.

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Speaker 5: Why was that, Lauren, look, I think that yesterday was

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Speaker 5: a stunt from the COLP. I think Jared very clearly

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Speaker 5: wanted to be ejected from the chamber. He was getting

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Speaker 5: more and more escalated. The Deputy chievements to pull him

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Speaker 5: out on it, looking very much like he wanted to

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Speaker 5: get purposely ejected from the chamber. I think it was

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Speaker 5: a stunt.

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Speaker 4: The report was.

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Speaker 1: How come he wanted to get would he want to

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Speaker 1: get thrown out?

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Speaker 5: I just think that the CLP wanted to create a

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Speaker 5: bit of drumm yesterday around this particular matter. It's it's public,

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Speaker 5: it's been widely reported on. We had government business to

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Speaker 5: get onto. We've had an enormous amount of legislation this week,

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Speaker 5: and really important legislation. Look quite frankly, I don't particularly

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Speaker 5: nobody in my electorate wants to talk any further about Mark, so.

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Speaker 2: That there are still a lot of questions which remain unanswered.

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Speaker 2: And at this point, the thing that Jered Melee had

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Speaker 2: said to me yesterday on air when I'd asked him

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Speaker 2: about it is is that you know, it's gone through

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Speaker 2: the privileges process and there was no evidence allowed to

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Speaker 2: sort of you know, allowed to be tabled, is my

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Speaker 2: understanding or not? Not as much as they had hoped,

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Speaker 2: And there was no further sort of questioning that was

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Speaker 2: able to happen as part of that parliamentary privileges process.

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Speaker 2: So then for Mark Turner to be entirely cleared and

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Speaker 2: there to then be no further discussion about it inside

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Speaker 2: the Parliament.

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Speaker 1: I actually disagree.

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Speaker 2: I do think that Territorians reserve the right to know

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Speaker 2: that every member within our Parliament that is holding a

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Speaker 2: position of great power and privilege does need to actually

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Speaker 2: be held to a certain standard.

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Speaker 6: There's some pretty basic rules of investigation and evidence, Katie.

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Speaker 6: When you're doing an investigation, you have to look at

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Speaker 6: all the evidence. You don't just cherry pick which evidence

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Speaker 6: you want to look at. You've got to look at

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Speaker 6: everything as a whole. And government didn't. They didn't bother

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Speaker 6: to interview the Chief Minister asked for evidence there, or

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Speaker 6: the Member for Bloind they didn't ask for evidence or

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Speaker 6: interview him either. They just went on what they had

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Speaker 6: at the time. And that's not enough. That just doesn't

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Speaker 6: stand up. It's not good enough.

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Speaker 1: Well, it wouldn't stand up in the court of law.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't suggest if somebody was, you know, if somebody

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Speaker 2: was having to be proven either innocent or guilty, it

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Speaker 2: wouldn't stand up in there. I wouldn't suspect And I'm

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Speaker 2: not saying that you know the privileges that it is,

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Speaker 2: you know, like I'm not suggesting that it needs to

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Speaker 2: do everything that would happen in the courts. But what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying is I would think that there would be

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Speaker 2: further evidence and further questioning before you determine whether somebody

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Speaker 2: is guilty or innocent in terms of whether they've done

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Speaker 2: the wrong thing.

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Speaker 4: Katie, this whole debarcle really needs to be examined a

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Speaker 4: little bit further. What normally happens is committees do an investigation,

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Speaker 4: whether it's the Privileges Committee or the Public Accounts Committee,

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Speaker 4: and those reports are tabled in Parliament and there is

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Speaker 4: always an opportunity to debate the content of those reports.

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Speaker 4: What Jared Mayley did yesterday was not extraordinary. He simply

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Speaker 4: thought that the government could see that the government had

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Speaker 4: no intention to table the reports or or debate it.

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Speaker 4: So he used a standing order I'd never heard of

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Speaker 4: two hundred and he did. So he tabled it and

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Speaker 4: started to talk about it. The Chief Minister was unhappy

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Speaker 4: with that. He got some advice from the clerk. Interestingly,

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Speaker 4: normally you go to the clerk, he summons the clerk

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Speaker 4: to him sitting down, which I've never seen that before.

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Speaker 4: But anyway, he think he's obviously the Chief Minister and

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Speaker 4: he got some advice and he shut the whole debate down. Now,

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Speaker 4: this report came about because the government referred Mark Turner

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Speaker 4: to the Privileges Committee because they were unhappy with an

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Speaker 4: aspect of and at the.

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Speaker 2: Time it was quite the master stroke because they referred

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Speaker 2: Mark Turner to Privileges so then it was my understanding

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Speaker 2: is that they couldn't be too much more discussed on

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Speaker 2: that topic. Then at the time inside the Parliament they

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Speaker 2: then also referred the matter to the IKAK. So then

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Speaker 2: publicly there was not a lot that could be divulged,

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Speaker 2: you know, when they were being questioned by journalists and

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Speaker 2: by the media. So I think that it was a

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Speaker 2: political master stroke in that sense, and a lot of

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Speaker 2: us had thought, okay, well it's going to go through

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Speaker 2: this process, so we'll at least know whether anything toward.

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Speaker 1: Has happened down the track.

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Speaker 2: But then I've got to tell you, I think for

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Speaker 2: myself and for a lot of territory insisting this morning.

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Speaker 2: You know, while while you guys as pollies might think,

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Speaker 2: oh it's a bit of naval gazing.

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Speaker 1: It's actually not.

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Speaker 2: We expect politicians to be held to a certain standard.

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Speaker 2: We expect them to behave in a certain standard and

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Speaker 2: if there is ever a question as to whether they

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Speaker 2: have or they haven't, we expect there to be proper

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Speaker 2: processes which happen through Parliament, through government to ensure.

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Speaker 1: That they are.

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Speaker 5: And there is a time in parliament where papers are tabled,

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Speaker 5: and that was the Chief Minister talked about that in

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Speaker 5: that debate yesterday. The time that Jered chose to do

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Speaker 5: it was when the Chief Minister has to get to

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Speaker 5: tell legislation about the future of Jabbaru. It has been

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Speaker 5: to Ikak. I think you know there has been a table.

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Speaker 2: Did it take the opposition trying to table it for

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Speaker 2: it to actually, you know, for there to be any life.

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Speaker 5: As the Chief Minister said, papers and reports get tabled

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Speaker 5: when we call for papers and reports, and that was

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Speaker 5: not No, it hadn't happened because this was right at

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Speaker 5: the beginning of the day.

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Speaker 4: So the last day of parliament for the year. The

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Speaker 4: COLP opposition obviously read the room and decided that the

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Speaker 4: government wasn't intending to table this report and I agree

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Speaker 4: with them, so they did it themselves. Look, there's there's

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Speaker 4: a lot of this story that hasn't been publicly acknowledged.

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Speaker 4: By the Labor government, and that is that the alleged

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Speaker 4: partner of the person involved in the alleged cocaine sex

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Speaker 4: scandal is the former president of the NT Labor Party

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Speaker 4: Kent Row, who's now facing charges of historical child sexual abuse.

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Speaker 4: So you know, there's a big story there that you

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Speaker 4: don't hear them talking about. It's been put on the

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Speaker 4: public records, so I'm not in breach of any thing.

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Speaker 4: But they want to just put this whole matter to bed.

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Speaker 4: They don't want to talk about Mark Turner, and they

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Speaker 4: certainly don't want to talk about kent Row, the former staffer,

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Speaker 4: former Confident of the Chief Minister, former president of the

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Speaker 4: NT Labor Party who's facing historical sex charge.

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Speaker 1: Was that supposed to be tabled on Tuesday?

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Speaker 4: That report?

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Speaker 6: The Standing Order to state quite clearly that the report

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Speaker 6: needs to be tabled as soon as possible in Parliament,

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Speaker 6: and it wasn't table on Tuesday. It wasn't table on Wednesday.

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Speaker 6: We're waiting for the government to table and they didn't.

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Speaker 3: You've got to go.

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Speaker 6: Right back to the start of this, Katie, from the

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Speaker 6: moment this issue came up in parliament earlier this year.

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Speaker 3: This government has been trying.

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Speaker 6: To cover up everything that's gone on with Mark Turner

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Speaker 6: and the issues with Kent Row. They try to shut

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Speaker 6: stuff down in Parliament back at the start of it,

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Speaker 6: and it's been that throughout the year and even right

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Speaker 6: up until yesterday. Said we tried a table report, we

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Speaker 6: tried to speak the report as a standing all stated,

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Speaker 6: and the Chief mins to just shut it down.

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Speaker 2: Well, I tell you what, I do think that there

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Speaker 2: is going to be more to come from this situation.

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Speaker 2: But I do want to move along to the other

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Speaker 2: thing that was quite historic throughout the week in Parliament,

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Speaker 2: and that.

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Speaker 1: Was the abortion laws.

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Speaker 2: We know that the Northern Territory Parliament past changes to

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Speaker 2: legislation making it easier for women to access later term abortions.

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Speaker 2: Now the legislation does expand abortion services for women seeking

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Speaker 2: a termination in their second trimester. It also allows abortions

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Speaker 2: after twenty four weeks for medical reasons with support from

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Speaker 2: two doctors. Those changes were past and I know that

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Speaker 2: it was it was quite an emotional discussion, Bill, I

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Speaker 2: know that you were certainly very emotional speaking and it

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Speaker 2: was like I thought it was really important for people

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Speaker 2: to hear that and see that emotion and understand that

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Speaker 2: this is a choice that a family has to make.

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Speaker 1: And it's a very very difficult one.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it was really tough to talk about, and it

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Speaker 6: was really tough legislator and really really important legislation because

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Speaker 6: it affects so many women and so many families.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, I struggled, I really did.

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Speaker 6: I thought I would have done better, but once I

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Speaker 6: started talking about I'd never spoken publicly about my issues before,

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Speaker 6: and yeah, I found it really tough.

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Speaker 4: Mate.

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Speaker 2: There's no shame in showing some emotion. In fact, I

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Speaker 2: think it shows you're you know, that you've got real

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Speaker 2: passion about it. And it's an important thing to do

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Speaker 2: because a lot of people do go through these really

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Speaker 2: really tough situations. And it was important legislation as well.

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Speaker 5: Oh, incredibly important legislation. And you know, I appreciated that

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Speaker 5: Bill showed the courage to share his story as well.

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Speaker 5: I thought it was very courageous. And I know it's

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Speaker 5: a difficult debate for people, you know, in terms of

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Speaker 5: how many women and families might have to access this

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Speaker 5: relatively small numbers, but I think just incredibly important that

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Speaker 5: so that's a decision that they will make with the

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Speaker 5: with the best medical advice that's available to them, and

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Speaker 5: I just this is a health issue, and we just

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Speaker 5: need to be telling those families out there that you know,

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Speaker 5: we acknowledge that that's incredibly difficult time in your life

442
00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:19,800
Speaker 5: and you should just get the best support that you can,

443
00:22:19,840 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 5: and that we don't want to keep throwing up more

444
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:25,240
Speaker 5: and more barriers to make it even harder for you.

445
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 4: I agree with what you've said, but I also acknowledge

446
00:22:31,680 --> 00:22:36,000
Speaker 4: that this is an ethical issue. It's a moral issue,

447
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 4: it's a spiritual issue for a lot of people in

448
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,600
Speaker 4: the community. I'm absolutely pro choice, and I would never

449
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 4: judge or deny anyone for having a termination for you know,

450
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,639
Speaker 4: extreme and extraordinary situations that arise during pregnancy. But I

451
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,879
Speaker 4: was very critical of the way the government went about

452
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 4: consulting with this. I don't think that they consulted widely

453
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,639
Speaker 4: at all. I'm sure that they didn't consult any disability groups.

454
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,440
Speaker 4: I mean, this is a radical change to our termination

455
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 4: of pregnancy laws. Now now that this bill has been passed,

456
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 4: a woman can have a termination at any point during

457
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,120
Speaker 4: her pregnancy. Now we've gone from a criminal loss.

458
00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 2: So if there is a serious medical issue, or if

459
00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,960
Speaker 2: you know, like once you're talking after twenty four weeks.

460
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,520
Speaker 2: It is if there is a serious medical course.

461
00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 4: It's not prescribed in the legislation, Katie. There's no detail

462
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 4: at all, and we're told that they will come out

463
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 4: in the regulations in the directions in the future. But

464
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 4: the way the legislation reads is that all you really

465
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 4: have to do is find two medical practitioners to support

466
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 4: you having a termination. No woman's going to have a

467
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,560
Speaker 4: termination at thirty eight weeks for no reason. I know that.

468
00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 4: But as a legislator, we are legislators here, nothing more,

469
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,040
Speaker 4: nothing less. We're not here to do anything else apart

470
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 4: from pass legislation that passes the expectations and the needs

471
00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 4: of Territorians. And I don't think this government consulted broadly

472
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 4: on this. I think they pushed it through. They did

473
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 4: not even release a press release that night or the

474
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 4: next day or since telling territorians that this bill has passed.

475
00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 4: And that's not good enough.

476
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,439
Speaker 2: I know that the Health Minister has obviously said she

477
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,159
Speaker 2: introduced the legislation to Parliament and said that the changes

478
00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:32,560
Speaker 2: would improve access to abortion in the Northern Territory for

479
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 2: a few women in rare and complex cases, and she'd

480
00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:39,720
Speaker 2: said that there's very little difference how doctor clinically handles

481
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 2: discovering a fetal abnormality at twenty weeks to one found

482
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: at thirty weeks, And she said, what is different is

483
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 2: that we do not currently have the framework to allow

484
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 2: these clinical professionals to do their jobs.

485
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 5: One point. It's one point two percent of terminations that

486
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:01,399
Speaker 5: will happen after twenty weeks. It's a tiny number. And

487
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 5: as Robin has acknowledged, anybody who would be contemplating making

488
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,919
Speaker 5: that choice after twenty weeks, you're talking about some pretty

489
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,760
Speaker 5: harrowing sets of circumstances. I think it's important to notes well.

490
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 4: That this is as a result of a review of.

491
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,560
Speaker 5: Earlier legislation, and Robin and I were both eighty seven

492
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 5: to yeah. We were both in the chamber when that

493
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 5: first made recorded that yep, and Robin supported that. So

494
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:30,000
Speaker 5: you know, this isn't the first time this conversation has

495
00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:33,320
Speaker 5: come about. There have been ongoing conversations with a whole

496
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:37,679
Speaker 5: range of different groups. There were huge numbers of submissions.

497
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 5: We've all I know, had members of our community talking

498
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,400
Speaker 5: to us about this issue. It is divisive in many

499
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 5: ways for many people. There are people out there who

500
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 5: just don't agree with termination of pregnancy full stop, and

501
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 5: you do have to navigate through that as a representative.

502
00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:55,359
Speaker 5: For me, this is a health issue for women, and

503
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,439
Speaker 5: I think it's a matter that should be between a

504
00:25:57,520 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 5: woman and toy AND's only really.

505
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:03,560
Speaker 4: Had third days from the time you gave notice of that.

506
00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 2: It is something that we've been talking about for a

507
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: long time.

508
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 4: But you know, I was talking to people in my

509
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 4: community and they had no idea. They'd not heard of it.

510
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 1: I've spoken about it on the show previously.

511
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 6: It was introduced at last sittings that it was going

512
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:21,119
Speaker 6: to come up for this sitting. So we had a

513
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,800
Speaker 6: month to do our consultation and it was quite evident,

514
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,240
Speaker 6: and I mentioned it in my speech that we went

515
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:30,199
Speaker 6: out and consulted widely with a number of groups, and

516
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:31,680
Speaker 6: a lot of these groups it was the first I'd

517
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 6: heard about it.

518
00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:37,280
Speaker 4: So people don't switch on to this and yeah, particular interests.

519
00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 6: Well, people don't sit there and watch Parliament either on

520
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:40,600
Speaker 6: their TV. They've probably got better things to do.

521
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 2: I watch it, so they don't have to bia here.

522
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:47,480
Speaker 6: Yeah, So some of the groups that we consulted with,

523
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:49,120
Speaker 6: it was the first I'd heard about it, and we

524
00:26:49,200 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 6: consulted quite widely with the churches. I spoke to some

525
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,160
Speaker 6: of the disability groups that I worked with in ol

526
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 6: Springs that we went into. We asked a lot of

527
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 6: questions in the consideration detail because we needed to know

528
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:02,240
Speaker 6: what some of those points were and what some of

529
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,719
Speaker 6: those points meant. I think if government had done the

530
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 6: guidelines first and been able to provide the updated guidelines

531
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 6: to go with the legislation, I think that would have

532
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,879
Speaker 6: alleviated a lot of concerns out there in the community.

533
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,160
Speaker 6: But the guidelines are now not going to be done

534
00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:20,920
Speaker 6: until after the legislation has passed. And look, I get

535
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:23,560
Speaker 6: that in some ways. Oh I don't get that, But

536
00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:25,439
Speaker 6: it could have been done in such way to be

537
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:30,160
Speaker 6: able to provide that assurance so that people actually knew

538
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,240
Speaker 6: what was going on. Okay, here's the legislative change. Here's

539
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 6: the guidelines that support that legislative change, so that people

540
00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 6: can see what they actually really.

541
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 3: Mean, how they will.

542
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 4: Legislation includes a very detailed prescription of what the mandatory

543
00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 4: requirements are for a medical practitioner to recommend or support

544
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 4: a termination of pregnancy beyond twenty four weeks. That's what

545
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 4: we should have had in the legislation. But look it's

546
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: done and dusted its history now and we move on.

547
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 2: And look, I think it is it is worth making

548
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 2: pretty clear. My understanding of it is that you cannot

549
00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:06,640
Speaker 2: go and have have a medical termination late in your

550
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:12,280
Speaker 2: pregnancy unless there is a very valid reason, i e.

551
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 1: That you know that that there are real that there

552
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: are real.

553
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 4: Health and in the legislation cal sits in the guidelines

554
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 4: that you know, there's expectations and requirements of doctors to

555
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,840
Speaker 4: adhere to certain you know, procedures, and.

556
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 6: We've got the insurance so that in the guidelines are

557
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:33,800
Speaker 6: going to adhere to the rands COLD, which is the

558
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 6: Royal austral New Zealand College of Obstricians, and going to colleges,

559
00:28:37,000 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 6: they're going to adhere to some of the recommendations from

560
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 6: from there.

561
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I think they a little.

562
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 2: Bit because look, I do you know, I am very

563
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 2: much pro choice, but I do not think that it's

564
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 2: okay if people are choosing to terminate based on a child,

565
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 2: sex or or you know, any of those, any of

566
00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 2: those kind of reasons. I think it's very important that

567
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:01,760
Speaker 2: those guidelines I would assume that they are very much

568
00:29:01,880 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 2: going to be in line with what he's done in

569
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:05,360
Speaker 2: other states and territories.

570
00:29:05,400 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 5: And you're on twenty four weeks, Katie, is you maintain

571
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 5: that assessment from two medical practitioners, which means it's not

572
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 5: just a decision between the family and maybe the medical

573
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 5: practition that's been going through that journey with them. There

574
00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 5: is you know, there's another medical practitioner who will come

575
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 5: in and review that and assess that woman as well.

576
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 5: So again we will be talking about a very small

577
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,440
Speaker 5: number of women and families and really harrowing sets of circumstances.

578
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 5: It's and as Robin said, you know it passed through

579
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,480
Speaker 5: the house, it was unopposed, and.

580
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 4: Well, we don't know that because it wasn't divided, and.

581
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:44,280
Speaker 5: It wasn't divided, so nobody divided.

582
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 4: There were people that opposed it in the room, I

583
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 4: am told, but it wasn't divided, so we don't know

584
00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:53,160
Speaker 4: who opposed it. It was a bit of a mess.

585
00:29:53,240 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 2: Whose job is it to the inn oppose it? Whose

586
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: job or to divide it? If it is anyway, So

587
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: if presumably some one in the room would have done so.

588
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 6: If they well, an attached files said when she opened

589
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 6: the debate last hittings, that would be a conscience vote.

590
00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 6: So one would have assumed that Labor would have called

591
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 6: a division to do that conscience vote, but that didn't happen.

592
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 3: They were noticeably quiet on that you need.

593
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,920
Speaker 4: The support of one other. So anyone can stand up

594
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 4: and say call a division, but someone else has to

595
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,800
Speaker 4: stand up and support you. I actually asked a number

596
00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 4: of people to support a division that I was prepared

597
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,520
Speaker 4: to raise, but I couldn't get the support right. So

598
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 4: it was really quite peculiar. And so when it came

599
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,960
Speaker 4: to the time to divide, I had resolved that no

600
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 4: one was an appetite too divide, okay, and without one

601
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:44,479
Speaker 4: extra person, I couldn't.

602
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:45,120
Speaker 1: You couldn't do it.

603
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 4: I couldn't do it.

604
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,200
Speaker 2: Yeah right, Okay, I didn't understand. I didn't realize that

605
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 2: that was the case. So that makes it it was.

606
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 4: Richest to have a conscience vote, but no one choosing

607
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:54,120
Speaker 4: to make that conscience vote.

608
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:56,360
Speaker 5: Really, just to Bill's point, like, I mean, it's not

609
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,040
Speaker 5: it wasn't an attached to Files's job to call a

610
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:03,959
Speaker 5: division on the leg she was bringing responsibility. Didn't if

611
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:06,320
Speaker 5: you want it, but if you wanted your if you

612
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 5: wanted your lack of support for the bill to be recorded.

613
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 5: There is a process for that, as Robin's outlined. And

614
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 5: I wasn't aware that Robin had us pre division that

615
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 5: you go to a.

616
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 4: Name who I asked, but I did ask quite a

617
00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 4: number of people.

618
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,440
Speaker 2: Well, we will take a very short break. You are

619
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 2: listening to Mix one O four point nine. It is

620
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,000
Speaker 2: just nineteen minutes away from ten o'clock and it is

621
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: the week that was also broadcasting on AH. Well, you

622
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: are listening to the week that was also broadcasting on

623
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 2: ADJ and if you've just tuned in, we are joined

624
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 2: in the studio by the Education Minister Lauren Moss, the

625
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: Independent Member for Ara Lewin, Robin Lamley, and the.

626
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 1: Opposition spokesperson for Health Bill Yan.

627
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 2: And Throughout the week, it was reported by the ABC

628
00:31:46,720 --> 00:31:49,560
Speaker 2: that tougher bail laws have triggered a surge in young

629
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 2: people held in detention in the Northern Territory, including the

630
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 2: first ten year old to be held in don Dale

631
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 2: since twenty seventeen when the Royal Commission into Youth Detention happened.

632
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 2: Now we know it does come as the Northern Territory

633
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:07,360
Speaker 2: government confirmed that a watchhouse has been placed on standby

634
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: to cope with extra demand that I understand.

635
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: Is in Alice Springs.

636
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:14,080
Speaker 2: We also know that the ABC did say that the

637
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: development of the fifty five million dollar replacement of don Dale,

638
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 2: well it has been redesigned to increase capacity by thirty percent.

639
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 2: Almost sixty young people per day, almost well most of them,

640
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,800
Speaker 2: sixty of them per day. So I'm just reading these

641
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 2: notes and they've been detained in Darwin and Alyis during November,

642
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 2: which is almost double the daily figure from six years ago.

643
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: I caught up with the Minister for Territory Families, Kate Warden,

644
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,520
Speaker 2: on the show yesterday and she said that yes, that

645
00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 2: figure is correct, around sixty per day. And she did

646
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:48,600
Speaker 2: say that yes there has been a ten year old

647
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,200
Speaker 2: detained in don Dale, no.

648
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: Longer in there at the moment.

649
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 2: But she also pointed out, and I am really very

650
00:32:56,720 --> 00:33:00,880
Speaker 2: much paraphrasing here, but did say that you know that

651
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 2: you're not going into detention for no reason. Basically you

652
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,120
Speaker 2: know that there are kids who have obviously broken the law. Now,

653
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 2: there was also questioning about to the Minister about whether

654
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 2: there is a shortage of staff at don Dale after

655
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:19,840
Speaker 2: the Children's Commissioner also released her report yesterday or the

656
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 2: day before it was tabled in Parliament, and there were

657
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: concerns raised about there being a shortage of staff at

658
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,480
Speaker 2: don Dale, to which Kate Wooden outright refuted and said

659
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: that no, that is not the case.

660
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: There's not a shortage of staff.

661
00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: And she spoke further as well about the lockdown or

662
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: lockdowns that they have in the H block.

663
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 1: I think it's called and that it.

664
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 2: Does very often come down to the safety of staff

665
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 2: when something like that happens. And Bill, you've probably got

666
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 2: more experience obviously in adult corrections I think, and.

667
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 6: I had a six month stint looking after youth detention

668
00:33:53,680 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 6: back in twenty sixteen. This points to some pretty systemic

669
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 6: phase here, k and I know what it takes.

670
00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:03,840
Speaker 3: For a ten year old to end up in don Dale.

671
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 6: It's not just you've committed a defense and ended up

672
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,399
Speaker 6: in don Dale. There's been a lot of things happen

673
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 6: in that child's life before someone has made that decision

674
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 6: to put that child into don Dale.

675
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:16,279
Speaker 3: And the courts do not do that lightly. I can

676
00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 3: guarantee that.

677
00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 6: So where the failures are is back further down the

678
00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 6: line of territory families, what have territory famili has been

679
00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:27,879
Speaker 6: doing to support that child and that family, to keep

680
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 6: that child out of don Dale. That's where the failure sits.

681
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:35,560
Speaker 6: But particularly when you look at youth detention and the staffing.

682
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 6: And I said this yesterday about police. It's one thing

683
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 6: to say, yeah, I've got record numbers of staff. I've

684
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 6: got heaps of staff, but it comes down to are

685
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 6: those staff available to roster. So you can have one

686
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 6: hundred staff, but only fifty of them are revisable to

687
00:34:49,160 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 6: roster because you've got some off on sickly workers, long

688
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,839
Speaker 6: term leave and things like that, So all a sudden

689
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 6: you don't have those people available to roster. And what

690
00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 6: we see happening to don Dale is they can't fill

691
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 6: a roster every day. You've got to have some minimum

692
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 6: staffing numbers to operate safely, and if you don't have

693
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 6: those staff, you've got a lockdown areas.

694
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 3: It's as simple as that.

695
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: Well, the Minister reckons that's not the case.

696
00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:13,160
Speaker 2: She said that there is definitely not a staff shortage.

697
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,480
Speaker 2: But I definitely take on board what you're saying there,

698
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:18,239
Speaker 2: and I don't have that background, so I think it's

699
00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,440
Speaker 2: important to note I mean it doesn't really at the

700
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 2: end of the day, we are still seeing real issues

701
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: around the Northern Territory when it comes to crime and

702
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: young people engaged in crime.

703
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,160
Speaker 1: I will just take you to a pressure release.

704
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 2: That came out late yesterday afternoon. Northern Territory Police appealing

705
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:38,880
Speaker 2: for witnesses to an incident in which a youth was

706
00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:42,160
Speaker 2: assaulted and robbed in Alice Springs. And it was some

707
00:35:42,239 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 2: time between three and three point fifty A female youth

708
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,360
Speaker 2: was walking along when it was alleged that she was

709
00:35:47,400 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 2: approached by a group of youths who pushed her to

710
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 2: the ground and assaulted her. They stole a number of

711
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,959
Speaker 2: items from her backpack before she was about to fight

712
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,160
Speaker 2: back and flee to a nearby residence.

713
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: Look, you know, this is a terrible.

714
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 2: Thing that's happened to a young person in Alice Springs,

715
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,879
Speaker 2: and I think that we can all certainly agree on that.

716
00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,280
Speaker 2: The really sad thing is that these types of incidents

717
00:36:10,320 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 2: are not isolated. And I think that that's the really worrying,

718
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: you know, the really worrying thing for so many of us.

719
00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 2: And you know, you've got sixty youth per day locked up,

720
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: yet we're still seeing you know, we're still seeing these

721
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 2: types of things happen, and that's it is a concern, Katie.

722
00:36:28,280 --> 00:36:31,840
Speaker 4: Things are getting worse in our town of Alice Springs.

723
00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 4: There's absolutely no doubt about it. The crime stats speak

724
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 4: for themselves. The fact that the government has flip flopped

725
00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 4: over the last five six years on their position of

726
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 4: how to address crime in Alice Springs and right across

727
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 4: the community, I think is the main reason why where

728
00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 4: we are where we're at at the moment. Look, I

729
00:36:55,680 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 4: listened to Kate Warden on your program yesterday and the

730
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 4: message that went through my head was what does this

731
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 4: government actually stand for? You've got on one hand the

732
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 4: Attorney General sprowning off how she's going about Aboriginal justice

733
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 4: agreements and her commitment to reducing incarceration rates when the

734
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 4: territory has got the highest level of incarceration rates for

735
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 4: adults and children ever in the history of since self

736
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:33,240
Speaker 4: government and before and five times the national average. Now,

737
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:37,040
Speaker 4: where are we going? What is this government actually doing

738
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 4: to address the incarceration rates, keep the community safe and

739
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 4: just take a really practical approach to law and order.

740
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 4: Things are just disintegrating before our eyes. I spent a

741
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,919
Speaker 4: week in Parliament this week, waiting to hear some sort

742
00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 4: of hope and explanation from the government about how they're

743
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,880
Speaker 4: going to keep Alice Spring safe over the long hot

744
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 4: summer ahead of us. What did I get? Absolutely nothing? So,

745
00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:09,439
Speaker 4: you know, I don't understand where this government's coming from,

746
00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 4: and it concerns me.

747
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,279
Speaker 6: If you look at those offending rates and you just

748
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 6: touched on it, then Robin and I haven't looked at

749
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,720
Speaker 6: the stats for a long time now, but the national average,

750
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:22,560
Speaker 6: I think is around about one hundred and sixty to

751
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 6: one hundred and eighty people in custody per hundred thousand

752
00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:30,319
Speaker 6: per hundred thousand population, and my last check of the

753
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 6: stats was the Northern Territory was up around about nine

754
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 6: hundred and fifty per hundred thousand population.

755
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:40,640
Speaker 3: And those figures are absolutely appalling. So what are we doing?

756
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 6: What is government doing to reduce these numbers, because to

757
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:48,320
Speaker 6: keep somebody in custody costs upwards of one hundred thousand

758
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:49,240
Speaker 6: dollars a year.

759
00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 3: That's not sustainable longer term.

760
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 5: This goverment's failing all around the point earlier about intervening

761
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 5: early and wrapping around these kids, you know, and we

762
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 5: are seeing in some case younger and younger kids, you know,

763
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 5: exhibiting behaviors that you wouldn't expect, I think on the whole,

764
00:39:08,080 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 5: from eight to ten year olds. But this week in

765
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 5: Parliament we did do the Territory Families some legislation that

766
00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:20,760
Speaker 5: will set up the information sharing environment, for example, between

767
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,160
Speaker 5: agencies and help strengthen that, but also sets the foundations

768
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:27,760
Speaker 5: for a really big new system that's coming in around

769
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,680
Speaker 5: child protection, which will help those who are working out

770
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 5: there in the field, child protection workers and others, to

771
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 5: make sure that they know that when the red flags

772
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 5: are going up early, they're able to provide the supports earlier.

773
00:39:41,080 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 5: There's also some support in there around women when they're pregnant,

774
00:39:47,719 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 5: around making sure that they can opt in for additional

775
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,000
Speaker 5: support where they may have come to the attention to

776
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 5: Territory Families previously, to make sure that we are keeping

777
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,160
Speaker 5: as many kids out of these systems as possible.

778
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 2: So I do hope that there is some change in

779
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,120
Speaker 2: this space, because we know that, you know, it's something

780
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 2: that we've been talking about for such a long period

781
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:10,640
Speaker 2: of time. It's something which continues to be a major

782
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 2: issue within the community right from you know, from Darwin

783
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 2: to Catherine, to the Red Center. It's it's happening all

784
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: around the place. I know that our police are working

785
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,080
Speaker 2: as hard as they can. I know that there's plenty

786
00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:25,920
Speaker 2: of other NGOs and others working as well. But we

787
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:28,680
Speaker 2: need to start thinking a bit innovatively and doing something

788
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,000
Speaker 2: to try to really stop this from happening, because it

789
00:40:31,080 --> 00:40:33,160
Speaker 2: is not okay, you know, for a ten year old

790
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 2: to be out on the street, and it is simply

791
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: totally not okay for them to then be involved in

792
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 2: any kind of crime. But we're going to have to

793
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:43,359
Speaker 2: take a very short break. You are listening to Mix

794
00:40:43,360 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 2: one oh four point nine three sixty. It is the

795
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:48,399
Speaker 2: week that was well, it is just about the week

796
00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,440
Speaker 2: that was done and dusted. But before we wrap up

797
00:40:50,480 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 2: for this morning, of course, Lauren Mosh, Robin Lamley, and

798
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:54,839
Speaker 2: Bill Yann in the studio with me this morning. And

799
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,160
Speaker 2: earlier this week, we did catch up with Sam Weston.

800
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 2: He's the owner of Darwin Cafe, The Mad Snake. He

801
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,680
Speaker 2: served time in well, he served i should say, in

802
00:41:04,840 --> 00:41:09,360
Speaker 2: East Temor. He was really disappointed that the anti mandate

803
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:13,480
Speaker 2: protesters last weekend had been using the last post at

804
00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:17,120
Speaker 2: rallies and he'd spoken to us about his views throughout

805
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:20,440
Speaker 2: the week. Now, I think that he is absolutely entitled

806
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 2: to his views, and I think without a doubt he

807
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,080
Speaker 2: was very you know, I was very brave of him

808
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 2: to speak out and have those views, despite the fact

809
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 2: that he was being absolutely trolled on social media for

810
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 2: having those views. Now, I think we're talking about a

811
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,640
Speaker 2: blow here who's served his great country. He is well

812
00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: and truly entitled to have a view as to whether

813
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 2: he thinks the last Post should be being played at

814
00:41:47,320 --> 00:41:48,840
Speaker 2: an anti mandate rally.

815
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:50,960
Speaker 5: I don't think it was just his view though I'm

816
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,200
Speaker 5: in from I've read a bit of their stuff as well,

817
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 5: and I know that, you know, there's a lot of

818
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,319
Speaker 5: veterans who go to the Mad Snake and there's a

819
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,440
Speaker 5: lot of support there, and it sounds like he's spoken

820
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,839
Speaker 5: to many people he's connected with who all thought it

821
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:11,239
Speaker 5: was a really awful thing to do. And I mean,

822
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 5: good on him. I just feel terrible that he's copped

823
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 5: all that.

824
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 3: Look is a very very reverent place for.

825
00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 6: Soldiers and of course our service people, and so it

826
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 6: was the last post. Last post goes with those who

827
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 6: were fallen, and so for those protesters to use the

828
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:31,799
Speaker 6: cenotaph and the last post for their own means is

829
00:42:31,920 --> 00:42:34,399
Speaker 6: very very disrespectful and good on him for calling them

830
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,160
Speaker 6: out and I support him one hundred percent. Obviously I'll

831
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 6: be go on the Man's not now to get my

832
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:39,359
Speaker 6: coffee morning so.

833
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,480
Speaker 2: From here, and we had so many people getting in

834
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 2: contact with us to say exactly that as well.

835
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 4: All Territorians have a right to have a view. You

836
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 4: just have to respect each other. Yes, sport on t

837
00:42:51,440 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 4: it gets to that level, it's not, that's not Territorian.

838
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 2: No, well look that is it for us this morning.

839
00:42:57,239 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: Thank you all so very much for your company. Lauren Moss,

840
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 2: the Minister for Education, thank you, Thank.

841
00:43:01,360 --> 00:43:01,839
Speaker 4: You very much.

842
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,720
Speaker 5: Hopefully see everyone at Carol's by Countlelight.

843
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,880
Speaker 1: Absolutely Andrew and Sarah from breakfast there to mc it,

844
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:07,759
Speaker 1: thank you very much.

845
00:43:07,840 --> 00:43:10,240
Speaker 4: Robin Ladling, thank you Katie, and have a happy Christmas.

846
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,800
Speaker 4: I don't think you'll have me again on the show.

847
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:17,240
Speaker 4: And Robin, thank you fabulous on you two and Bill yet.

848
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 3: Kay and you look. Merry Christmas to you two.

849
00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 6: I won't be back up before the end of the year,

850
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 6: so Merry Christian to everybody here in Darwen, and I'll

851
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 6: see everyone in the new year well and.

852
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: We've loved having the Alice Springs Polly's on the show

853
00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:30,399
Speaker 2: and broadcasting in Alice Springs as well.

854
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 3: Thank you all, so Pach the country good.

855
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 2: On you, Thanks so much for your company. This morning

856
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: you are listening to Mix one O four point nine.

857
00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: Still plenty more coming your way after ten