1 00:00:02,680 --> 00:00:06,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Outspoken, the podcast for strong women with a 2 00:00:06,320 --> 00:00:10,559 Speaker 1: passion for pushing the boundaries, where journalists and identical triplets 3 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: who tackle the real issues facing women today, as well 4 00:00:14,400 --> 00:00:17,599 Speaker 1: as the fun stuff from delving into the influencer world, 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:21,319 Speaker 1: dissecting reality TV, and giving you the tools to find 6 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: your feet in the workplace in business world. We're here 7 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,080 Speaker 1: to help you find your voice and talk about the 8 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:32,360 Speaker 1: issues that matter. Welcome to the second episode of Outspoken, 9 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: the podcast. Sophie and I are so excited because we 10 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: have our triplet sister Kate joining us today. Unfortunately, she 11 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:41,800 Speaker 1: was unable to be at the recording of the first episode, 12 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: but she's here now, so thanks for joining us. Kate. 13 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 1: I'm very excited to get the call up. I have 14 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 1: been described this week by the Telegraph as the under 15 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: the radar triplet, so it's good that I have been 16 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: welcomed onto the podcast finally. Anyone who knows Kate will 17 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: know that that is not an adequate description of Kate 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 1: at all. She's not under the radar in any circumstances. Definitely, 19 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 1: I'm usually the boss of this outfit, so yeah, it's 20 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:08,280 Speaker 1: pretty good to be here finally, So thank you and 21 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:10,800 Speaker 1: talking about the Daily Telegraph. That was quite nice write 22 00:01:10,880 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: up on you two. Yes, it was very unexpected, not 23 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: orchestrated by our PR team at all. No, it was 24 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:20,160 Speaker 1: great and we have to say a big thanks to 25 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: Annette Sharp for writing such a lovely pizza and thank 26 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 1: you so much for everybody who's tuned in this week. 27 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,520 Speaker 1: It's been overwhelming the number of people that have listened 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,479 Speaker 1: or emailed us, So thank you to everybody. It has 29 00:01:31,560 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 1: been a rather interesting and exciting week. Kate, What did 30 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 1: you get up to? So? I was in Melbourne this 31 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: week with some meetings with the NBL. So I currently 32 00:01:40,200 --> 00:01:43,320 Speaker 1: work as the thirty six's media manager. So that was 33 00:01:43,360 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 1: a great trip. I learned a lot, but probably not 34 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,120 Speaker 1: a great end to the trip, so many of you 35 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:50,480 Speaker 1: will know I got a bit of plane rage going on. 36 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 1: Well it wasn't actually me this time. It was directed 37 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: at me. What happened? I haven't heard any of this. 38 00:01:56,480 --> 00:01:58,960 Speaker 1: What do you mean plane rage? Well, I don't know. 39 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,440 Speaker 1: People just annoy me sometimes, so when you're in that 40 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,880 Speaker 1: close proximity to them, you know, I mean, probably not 41 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 1: myself so much, but you know, our dad gets rage 42 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: on the plane where he you know, hits the seat 43 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:13,200 Speaker 1: if someone puts it down on him, that sort of thing. 44 00:02:13,720 --> 00:02:15,840 Speaker 1: I do have to say that people do turn into 45 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: different creatures once you're on an aeroplane. Suddenly it's like, 46 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 1: I don't give a shit about anybody. I'm just gonna 47 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: put my seat back. It does say a lot about 48 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 1: someone's character when you do fly with them. Well, I think, unfortunately, 49 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:29,960 Speaker 1: I was a bit of an asshole this time, because 50 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: you know, when you're you finally landed and all you 51 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: want to do is get off the plane, and then 52 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,639 Speaker 1: there's annoying people like line up in the aisles and 53 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:40,360 Speaker 1: you can't get out. So I was pretty desperate to 54 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: get off the plane, so I kind of forced my 55 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 1: way out. And I had a quite large hand luggage 56 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 1: bag and I reached up and there was this old 57 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: man behind me in a suit who was clearly there 58 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 1: on a business trip, and he just kept encroaching in 59 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: my space when I was clearly trying to get out. 60 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: So I grabbed my bag and there was no offer 61 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 1: of help. You know, I'm thinking, well, okay, so I 62 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: pull it down and the bag hits the man in 63 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 1: the shoulder and I was like, oh fuck. Sorry. Meanwhile, 64 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: my manager, Leanne just burst out laughing, and then I 65 00:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,080 Speaker 1: went turned back again and I said, oh my gosh, 66 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry. Are you okay? Now? This man then 67 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: just stares at me rudely and doesn't respond and didn't 68 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 1: say anything. And I was thinking, well, I didn't mean 69 00:03:26,800 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: to hit. He should be being quite apologetic, considering he 70 00:03:29,639 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: didn't even offer to help. Yeah, I mean, I felt 71 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: bad because it would have been a fair whack. But anyway, 72 00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 1: so meanwhile, Leanne is still laughing. So yeah, it was 73 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,840 Speaker 1: a fabulous end of the trip that actually reminds me. 74 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: This week. Sophie and I were doing a little bit 75 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 1: of work on a conference and we did some shooting 76 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: for an awards night here in Adelaide, and I was 77 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:52,080 Speaker 1: just astonished. I mean, not that I actually not that 78 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: I expect people to help me, but I was walking 79 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: around with a lot of gear and not one person 80 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: even offered to open a door or anything. Yeah. Well, 81 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: when you are on your feet for four fourteen hours, 82 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,480 Speaker 1: you wouldn't mind someone offering to help. But anyway, it 83 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,840 Speaker 1: was a very long day, but made better by the 84 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: fact that Amy and I enjoyed McDonald's on the way home. 85 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:11,880 Speaker 1: I don't know about you guys, but there's just nothing 86 00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 1: better than pulling up to the drive through and getting 87 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: that McDonald's. It almost made it worth it. Now I 88 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: just picked up, Sophie that you said McDonald's, which is 89 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:23,400 Speaker 1: how all of us pronounce it the correct way, the 90 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: correct way, but we have been picked up on it apparently. 91 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 1: Now you might have to put it out to the listeners. 92 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,600 Speaker 1: Is it McDonald's or McDonald's. I think you are over 93 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 1: emphasizing the book. They're not saying McDonald's, they're saying McDonald 94 00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:41,320 Speaker 1: But to be fair, it's a big Mac, and who 95 00:04:41,360 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: loves going to macis exactly exactly you had your own 96 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: McDonald Now moving on, It's been two weeks since Instagram 97 00:04:56,000 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: controversially removed the visibility of likes on its platform in Australia, 98 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:05,000 Speaker 1: polarizing opinion across the social network. Instagram claims the trial 99 00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,120 Speaker 1: is aimed at freeing users from judgment and to help 100 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,480 Speaker 1: people focus less on likes and more on telling their story, 101 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 1: thereby improving users' mental health, but some influencers have slammed 102 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: the move, claiming it will threaten their livelihoods, while others 103 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 1: have embraced the pressure free posting, but does Instagram really 104 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: care about our mental health or is it all a 105 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,880 Speaker 1: big publicity stunt. Now, firstly, Sophie, I have to ask you, 106 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 1: how have you personally been dealing with Instagram removing likes, 107 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:38,280 Speaker 1: because I think Kate and I haven't a lot about 108 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,880 Speaker 1: it from you, and I feel like you are probably 109 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: one of the people who have been most outraged by 110 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: the decision. I just think it's absolutely ludicrous. Are we 111 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,599 Speaker 1: living in this nanny society where we can't even see 112 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: people's likes. I can understand if we're removing likes of 113 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 1: people under the age of eighteen, but I'm sorry, we're 114 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: all adults. Can we not just exist with seeing how 115 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: many likes ofoto gets? I mean, at the end of 116 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,560 Speaker 1: the day, if Facebook is so concerned about our mental health, 117 00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,400 Speaker 1: why aren't they removing Facebook likes? It just seems absurd 118 00:06:09,440 --> 00:06:11,520 Speaker 1: to me. I know you were saying, Sophie that you 119 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: thought it was a little bit strange that Instagram is 120 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: saying it's a people's mental health when actually you can 121 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: still see how many like. You personally can see how 122 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,719 Speaker 1: many people have liked your photos, so it seems to 123 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: be Instagram is focusing more on what people think of 124 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: somebody rather than what somebody thinks of themselves. If that 125 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 1: makes sense. I think it is a huge publicity stunt 126 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:35,240 Speaker 1: that they're saying it's so people's mental health, and that 127 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 1: they're testing to see if this works. How are we 128 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:41,120 Speaker 1: testing people's mental health? How are we doing that at all? 129 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: All Instagram is testing is how much money they're making 130 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: from the new algorithms and systems in place. Can I 131 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:50,279 Speaker 1: also point out how did they make How did they 132 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: actually come to this decision? What testing was done prior 133 00:06:53,560 --> 00:06:57,520 Speaker 1: to see whether likes were actually affecting people's mental health, 134 00:06:57,680 --> 00:07:00,599 Speaker 1: Because there is the opposite effect, where there are people 135 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 1: that actually gain their feeling of worth from these likes, 136 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 1: So isn't it quite dangerous taking that away from them? 137 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: I read a really interesting piece from nine Honey by 138 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: Kelly Barker, and she is talking about how Instagram actually 139 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,440 Speaker 1: made her feel like a somebody and that might sound 140 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 1: really silly and naive, but I mean, the Instagram likes 141 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: our gratification, and she was just saying, you know, she's 142 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 1: your average run of the meal human who shares a 143 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:28,760 Speaker 1: picture and enjoys an odd meme for a laugh. Yet 144 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: she feels attached to these likes. It makes her feel special, 145 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: She somehow feels valued and has worth. On the flip side, 146 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 1: she says she feels equally impacted when she only gets 147 00:07:37,960 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 1: a few likes. But can I just say, you're still 148 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,239 Speaker 1: getting the like, so you're still seeing that your friends 149 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,120 Speaker 1: have lied. You're still getting that instant gratification. But is 150 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 1: it more that, oh, I've got a hundred likes but 151 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,800 Speaker 1: nobody can see them. Is that what it's about. I 152 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: totally understand what you're saying, but I think what's happening 153 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:59,920 Speaker 1: here is Instagram is risking devaluing such a crucial currency, 154 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,480 Speaker 1: which is likes. It's a way that you connect with people. 155 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 1: To be honest, When I now see a photo in 156 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: my feed and it has no likes on it, I 157 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,360 Speaker 1: don't feel like liking it. I don't feel like connecting 158 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:12,200 Speaker 1: with it. And at the same time, that currency is 159 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:14,960 Speaker 1: now going to go over to comments. I mean, if 160 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: Instagram really cares about our mental health, aren't the comments 161 00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:21,360 Speaker 1: more damaging than the likes? I personally, though, I have 162 00:08:21,480 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 1: been quite liking the no likes because I feel like 163 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,080 Speaker 1: people are posting more because they're not really worried about 164 00:08:28,080 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 1: who's gonna like it, because I know it is awful 165 00:08:30,000 --> 00:08:32,400 Speaker 1: when you do post something and you're like, oh, that 166 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 1: looks like a lower amount of likes, and it does 167 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,760 Speaker 1: make you feel like shit. Sometimes I do agree somewhat. 168 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:39,880 Speaker 1: But the thing is, what I've noticed is there's a 169 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:43,800 Speaker 1: little issue with it because if I'm one of my 170 00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 1: friends ends up liking your post, then I can still 171 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:49,800 Speaker 1: see how many people have liked it. So it's really 172 00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:52,920 Speaker 1: pretty stupid when you think about it. And for me, 173 00:08:53,000 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 1: I suppose moving on to a bit more of a 174 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: conspiracy theory, we touched on the fact that we don't 175 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: think Instagram are doing it for these touting of mental 176 00:09:01,000 --> 00:09:04,560 Speaker 1: health reasons. Personally, the first thing I thought when I 177 00:09:04,640 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: heard about it was that are they trying to take 178 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: the power away from the influencers. I mean, obviously there's 179 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: people on the platform now that get paid a huge 180 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: amount of money. Instagram doesn't see one center of for it. 181 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,880 Speaker 1: So I do think it is a big reason behind 182 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: the new removal of viewing the likes. What do you think? 183 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:21,079 Speaker 1: So I did a bit of research into this and 184 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: it's quite interesting because currently there's twenty five million Instagram 185 00:09:24,880 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 1: business profiles globally, but the only two million who advertise monthly. 186 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: So many people are saying that Instagram is using this 187 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,720 Speaker 1: as an opportunity to get more business profiles to sponsor 188 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:39,880 Speaker 1: posts through them. People have noticed in the past two 189 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,000 Speaker 1: weeks a very sneaky algorithm going on. So what is 190 00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: happening is four of your friends posts or people that 191 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 1: you follow will appear in your feed, followed by a 192 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: sponsored posts. So these sponsored posts are being camouflaged by 193 00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 1: the fact that there are no likes. But the thing 194 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:59,600 Speaker 1: is Instagram influencers are so popular because people think of 195 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,080 Speaker 1: influen as being their friends, so if they recommend something, 196 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 1: then people are more likely to buy it. So I 197 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: don't really see that working. I do. I don't really 198 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: believe it is for people's mental health either, so I 199 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 1: think that's bullshit, but it would be It will be 200 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 1: interesting to see if it actually takes off and continues. 201 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna say I completely disagree with me, because I 202 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,720 Speaker 1: think the whole point is that influences are popular because 203 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,200 Speaker 1: people then see, oh, this person's really cool because they've 204 00:10:27,240 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 1: got a million likes on this photo. I need to 205 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:32,720 Speaker 1: replicate what this person's doing. But without the queue of 206 00:10:32,760 --> 00:10:35,200 Speaker 1: that of seeing how many likes these people are getting, 207 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:37,720 Speaker 1: then that's going to be like you're not having that 208 00:10:37,800 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: social queue that Yeah, you need that product to be 209 00:10:40,320 --> 00:10:44,559 Speaker 1: like them. So I do think that we will definitely 210 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: see influences leaving the platform. So there's been a lot 211 00:10:48,640 --> 00:10:52,360 Speaker 1: of media coverage about the topic. One segment that made 212 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,840 Speaker 1: me quite uncomfortable was Peter Ford's rant on The Morning 213 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,080 Speaker 1: Show in which he detailed the removal of likes, and 214 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: he also discussed influencer called Mikayla Tester. Now I've never 215 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: heard of her, but she did have a pretty dramatic 216 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,000 Speaker 1: breakdown on Instagram. She was reacting to the likes being 217 00:11:10,040 --> 00:11:13,359 Speaker 1: taken away. And while I think her reaction was completely 218 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:17,120 Speaker 1: over the top, I found some of the comments rather degrading. 219 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: Let's have a listen for more. We're joined by our 220 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: entertainment editor, Peterford. What's the latest. 221 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 2: So this is likes is when you indicate you approve 222 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:30,360 Speaker 2: of something and the people receiving those likes, it's their validation, 223 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 2: it's their popularity. And this particular woman you see here, 224 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,920 Speaker 2: her name is Mikayla Testa. Now I wasn't familiar with it, 225 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 2: but I guess she is what we now referred to 226 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:43,280 Speaker 2: as being an Instagram influencer, and she posts a lot 227 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:47,360 Speaker 2: of sexy pictures of herself. She's very unhappy about the 228 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:50,040 Speaker 2: fact that you can no longer indicate these likes and 229 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 2: receive these likes. My first reaction when I saw this, 230 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,560 Speaker 2: I thought, Oh, stupid woman, get a life. But we 231 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 2: have to really consider that this is an issue. In 232 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:02,840 Speaker 2: twenty nineteen, she considers Instagram to be an industry, and 233 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:06,040 Speaker 2: she considers what she does on Instagram to be her job, 234 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:09,839 Speaker 2: her profession. This is in her mind. This is Mikayla 235 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 2: explaining that she's upset and that she's having a break 236 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,599 Speaker 2: from social media. I just think I'm going to have 237 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 2: a really big break from social media for a while 238 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 2: because it is really just. 239 00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: I know, mentally, Instagram for me is a problem, kind 240 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:32,560 Speaker 1: of like I can't even like accept that. So I'm 241 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:36,040 Speaker 1: just gonna leave for you know, maybe a couple of weeks. 242 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,240 Speaker 2: Well, for the record, a couple of weeks lasted twenty 243 00:12:39,240 --> 00:12:42,400 Speaker 2: four hours. And I think that in itself probably indicates 244 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 2: that there is a problem with her, and good on 245 00:12:45,640 --> 00:12:48,120 Speaker 2: her for accepting that she does have an issue. It's 246 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 2: almost like she is addicted to it and what she 247 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:54,280 Speaker 2: gets out of it, that feedback that she gets. And 248 00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:57,040 Speaker 2: I think she's probably an extreme example of what a 249 00:12:57,080 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: lot of young kids these days are getting out of 250 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:04,160 Speaker 2: social media. It's becoming almost their friendship group in spite 251 00:13:04,160 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: of a real one on one contact with people. So 252 00:13:07,679 --> 00:13:10,080 Speaker 2: we hope Mikayla gets all the kind of help and 253 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 2: guidance she needs. Maybe she should have gone through with 254 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:14,560 Speaker 2: that break for a few weeks. 255 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,400 Speaker 1: If this story has raised any concerns for you, though, 256 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:19,959 Speaker 1: or anyone that you know, there is a number that 257 00:13:20,000 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 1: you can call and this is the number Lifeline thirteen 258 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 1: eleven fourteen. So firstly, what annoyed me about that clip 259 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,920 Speaker 1: is he portrays his lack of knowledge on the subject 260 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: of Instagram by first having to explain what a like 261 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: is and I know who is probably dumbing it down 262 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: for their perceived audience, but it's just rather odd. And 263 00:13:37,440 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: then he went on to belittle this woman. And while 264 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: I did what I said before, it was really over 265 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: the top her reaction. They were almost acting as if 266 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:50,000 Speaker 1: they were concerned about her mental health, but then paying 267 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 1: her out about it. And the most cringe thing was 268 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:57,000 Speaker 1: when they segue to on if you're struggling with this, 269 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,400 Speaker 1: give Lifeline a call. I mean, how would that feel 270 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:03,160 Speaker 1: after being belittled like that on television? I think as 271 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,840 Speaker 1: well the fact that he was acting as if Instagram 272 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 1: isn't actually a business for many people. It was quite 273 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:12,240 Speaker 1: naive his assumptions about Instagram. For a lot of people, 274 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: they're making huge amounts of money on Instagram, and it 275 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: is quite a concern for them that that this has 276 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:19,240 Speaker 1: been taken away from them. What I also want to 277 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: know is why have this fifty year old man who 278 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: has probably never actually been on Instagram as the expert 279 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: I mean, working in social media, I often find that 280 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: I have to really dumb down what social media actually 281 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:35,280 Speaker 1: is and how important it is to these sort of older, 282 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 1: generally males. And it's sort of becoming a little bit 283 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,720 Speaker 1: trying because it is the way of the future and marketing, 284 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,320 Speaker 1: and people just act like it's a joke. And they 285 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: also act like people that take the platform seriously are 286 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,640 Speaker 1: a joke. I mean, yes, this woman, I mean, we 287 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 1: all laughed when we watched it. But if they actually 288 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:57,280 Speaker 1: think mental health is an important issue, they've been so 289 00:14:57,680 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: hypocritical by paying you're out. And just to finish on 290 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: there is a study that is being misquoted in a 291 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 1: lot of the articles about the Instagram's removal of likes. 292 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: So there was a study called the Status of Mind, 293 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 1: which was done by the Royal Society for Public Health. 294 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: So it says in the study that Instagram is the 295 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:24,400 Speaker 1: platform most likely to negatively impacts people's wellbeing and health. However, 296 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: in the report, there is no correlation made between Instagram 297 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,760 Speaker 1: likes and mental health. So if Instagram was really concerned 298 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:34,080 Speaker 1: about mental health, it would have taken some of the 299 00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: report's recommendations on board. And one of the biggest recommendations 300 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: was to point out when photos have been digitally manipulated. 301 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: That's a really good point. And one also that just 302 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: came to mind was the fact that they haven't really 303 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:49,040 Speaker 1: done anything to stop trolling, which is another big issue 304 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:52,360 Speaker 1: on that platform. I actually listened to a speaker talking 305 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 1: about Twitter and how they have now implemented a filter 306 00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: that stops people from creating fake accounts, tweeting, installing at 307 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: people because obviously most trolls come up with a fake 308 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,680 Speaker 1: account and Twitter flags that as inappropriate behavior. Because who's 309 00:16:07,680 --> 00:16:09,840 Speaker 1: really going to jump on Twitter as a new user 310 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,960 Speaker 1: and an instantly tweet at someone. So it would have 311 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: been nice if Instagram could have looked into mechanisms to 312 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: stop the disgusting trolling that happens online as well as 313 00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: flagging imagery that is highly edited and makes women and 314 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: men feel like shit. And it will definitely be very 315 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: interesting to see whether we regain our likes again, so 316 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 1: it will be one to watch. Now we're going to 317 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,200 Speaker 1: go to our top headlines of the week. So the 318 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,520 Speaker 1: first one was from the Lovely Daily Mail, who said 319 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: the Ultimate Instagram boyfriend Bachelor star's partner cleans up her 320 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 1: vomit and props her up for a sponsored post after 321 00:16:47,920 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: she contracts Bali belly on Indonesian getaway. Could that headline 322 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: be any more Australian? It's talking about a C grade 323 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: celebrity from Australia having Bali Belli. Yeah, it's actually interesting 324 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: because I have to do a bit of a Google 325 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:04,240 Speaker 1: search to find out who the Bachelor's star was. It's 326 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: actually Tiffany and she was from Richie's series. I can't 327 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: imagine the hotel that paid for this sponsored post would 328 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:13,040 Speaker 1: have been too happy by this Instagram post that she 329 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 1: put up because she's obviously highlighting how fake it is 330 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: the fact that her boyfriend had to prop her up 331 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,479 Speaker 1: after vomiting in the lose. How does that work though? 332 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,000 Speaker 1: Would you know? Are they happy on their return in 333 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,800 Speaker 1: that respect? I'm just hoping for the cafes and Barley 334 00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:28,600 Speaker 1: that none of them was sponsoring her post, because I 335 00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 1: wonder where she got the Barley belly from. And now 336 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:34,880 Speaker 1: the next headline that I was interested in is entitled 337 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: Rebecca Judd reveals the one major clue that a celebrity 338 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:41,200 Speaker 1: couple is about to break up and says that her 339 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: marriage to Chris would be doomed if she did the same. Now, 340 00:17:44,119 --> 00:17:46,760 Speaker 1: can you guys pick what that one thing might be? God, 341 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: there's so many we could choose from. Rebecca Judd said, 342 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: the major clue that a celebrity couple is about to 343 00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: break up is the fact that they start excessively displaying 344 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: public affection on social media. So she said that usually 345 00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: that means that there's something wrong behind the scenes. And 346 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 1: she said that she purposely doesn't really post that much 347 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 1: about her husband, Chris. She'd prefer to tell him person 348 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: that she loves him, And I think that's not just 349 00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: for celebrities. I think that's for everybody out there. That's 350 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: exactly the true. I know when I see that sort 351 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,320 Speaker 1: of stuff on Instagram, I either think, one they've had 352 00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,439 Speaker 1: a big argument and someone's trying to suck up, or 353 00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: two the girl or boy is worried about another threat 354 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,360 Speaker 1: and it's aimed at someone else to piss them off. 355 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 1: I think it always reeks of a bit of insecurity 356 00:18:28,840 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: when there's one person who's predominantly posting and confessing their 357 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,879 Speaker 1: love for the other person. So the next headline is 358 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,560 Speaker 1: again from the Daily Mail and it reads Courtney Kardashian 359 00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:41,679 Speaker 1: unairbrushed Mama three enjoys bikini fun and candid snaps from 360 00:18:41,760 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: luxury yacht. Not surprisingly, the Daily Mail has selected the 361 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:49,320 Speaker 1: most unflattering pictures of Courtney they can find, despite her 362 00:18:49,359 --> 00:18:51,760 Speaker 1: having an amazing body for the age of forty. In 363 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 1: my opinion, what really annoyed me about this article was 364 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: the way the Daily Mail were trying to act like 365 00:18:56,840 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 1: the good guys. You know. They're like, well, we rate 366 00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,040 Speaker 1: her ten out of ten, and then they choose the 367 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:04,760 Speaker 1: most deceptive photos of her, which look like they'd been 368 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: sharpened to show cellu light And it was also rather 369 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,840 Speaker 1: disgusting because there were so many awful comments left under 370 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,000 Speaker 1: the photos, which were unmoderated by the Daily Mail. I 371 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 1: mean some of the people were even calling in to 372 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,479 Speaker 1: question her parenting skills because her bathing her baths were 373 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 1: too revealing to wear in front of children. I personally 374 00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:29,320 Speaker 1: don't think Mason would care that much. Hi, I'm Joe, 375 00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 1: I'm Ava, Anna Dree, Curtis Michael Tommy. Love Island UK 376 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,680 Speaker 1: has been of ratings Juggernaut. The show has been praised 377 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:43,160 Speaker 1: for reflecting a contemporary dating culture which resonates with its 378 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 1: young audience. This week, the show has shone a light 379 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: on the modern man's use of gas lighting and displays 380 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: of toxic masculinity. Viewers were left shocked when twenty four 381 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 1: year old Jordan's head was turned just days after making 382 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:59,960 Speaker 1: Anna his girlfriend. Then, instead of being honest about his fear, 383 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 1: made Anna paranoid, baited her, and then blamed her for 384 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,239 Speaker 1: his actions. For those who don't know, Kate, what is gaslighting? So, 385 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 1: if we're going to get a little bit technical here, 386 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: gas lighting, it's a form of psychological manipulation in which 387 00:20:13,520 --> 00:20:16,000 Speaker 1: a person seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a 388 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,080 Speaker 1: targeted individual, making them question their own memory, perception, and 389 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:25,800 Speaker 1: sanity using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying. Gas Lighting 390 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: involves attempts to destabilize the victim and delegitimize the victim's behavior. So, 391 00:20:31,320 --> 00:20:34,320 Speaker 1: I mean, it's pretty bad, and I feel like it's 392 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:37,520 Speaker 1: a pretty common behavior by twenty something year old guys. 393 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: So for those who don't tune in every night religiously 394 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: like ourselves, we'll just give you a quick wrap up. 395 00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 1: So Jordan was being the ultra nice guy and he 396 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,400 Speaker 1: asked Anna to be his girlfriend or his chick as 397 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 1: he put it, in a very extravagant way. So he 398 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:56,120 Speaker 1: took Anna to all the spots in the villa where 399 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: they'd shared some good memories. Then just two days later, 400 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: he did a complete switch and admitted to Curtis that 401 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: he had feelings for India, who was one of the 402 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:07,840 Speaker 1: new girls that had arrived in the villa. So there's 403 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:10,159 Speaker 1: been a lot of backlash on this topic. What was 404 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,159 Speaker 1: it that upset view was the most? Well, as a 405 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 1: viewer myself, what annoyed me was just tell arrogant. He 406 00:21:16,480 --> 00:21:18,879 Speaker 1: was about the whole thing, Like he'd done this whole 407 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: bullshit thing where it asked her to be his girlfriend. 408 00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 1: And even when watching this, I thought this is so 409 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 1: fake and I don't even I'm not trying to be rude, 410 00:21:27,359 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: but I didn't know what she saw in him. Ovi 411 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,720 Speaker 1: was so much better. She should have never gotten rid 412 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,320 Speaker 1: of OV. And I think it annoyed people that we'd 413 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,720 Speaker 1: invested time in this relationship and quickly discovered that it 414 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: was fake. What really pissed me off was that two 415 00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 1: days after asking her to be his girlfriend, he then 416 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,720 Speaker 1: switches and tries to make her paranoid and overthink things, 417 00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:51,520 Speaker 1: and it was almost as though he was trying to 418 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: force her sorry, force her to break up with him 419 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 1: by just ghosting her for days. What about that scene 420 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,359 Speaker 1: where they were sucking on those ice lollies and he 421 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,280 Speaker 1: was trying to her That was the perfect opportunity where 422 00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: he could have expressed the way he felt instead of 423 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 1: then pulling India aside for this conversation. So the general 424 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,400 Speaker 1: consensus was that Jordan was acting like a complete douchebag, 425 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: And what was absolutely fantastic about it was Anna did 426 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,679 Speaker 1: not let him get away with it. Obviously, it was 427 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,880 Speaker 1: really disappointing to see another one of the contestants get 428 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,639 Speaker 1: gas lighted by one of these stupid little boys. But 429 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:27,080 Speaker 1: what was great was the fact that Anna actually immediately 430 00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 1: called the behavior out and stood up for herself. So 431 00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,960 Speaker 1: we're just gonna have a quick listen to what went 432 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 1: on in the villa conversation. Did you because I never 433 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:37,480 Speaker 1: said that I like her, That's what I was just talking. 434 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:40,960 Speaker 1: Do you like her a conversation? You just asked me 435 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: out and you're like her? Is that a fucking idiot? 436 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 1: Your What the fuck? Are you actually that fucking idiot? 437 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:51,920 Speaker 2: Laura? 438 00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,840 Speaker 1: Are you actually like you ask a girl out? Are 439 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,159 Speaker 1: you talking about them? I have you white to know 440 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:03,080 Speaker 1: you're my boyfriend? Was fucking boyfriend? Fucking feake bickhead? Or 441 00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,200 Speaker 1: you talking about you? Talking about you? 442 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 2: Talking about. 443 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: Today but losing? Did I talk about India or did you? 444 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,240 Speaker 1: You look like you got like a piece of a 445 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 1: ship you ask two days, you ask God to be 446 00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: your girlfriend, and then two days you'll kid on her. 447 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 1: So what is so annoying about this clip is basically 448 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,919 Speaker 1: Jordan just tried to backtrack on his feelings for India. 449 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: It really frustrated me. I almost wanted India to jump 450 00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:31,720 Speaker 1: in there. And say yes, he actually did say that 451 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: he liked me. Yeah, India didn't really have the girl code, 452 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,520 Speaker 1: but someone who did was Moura. She was such a legend. 453 00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 1: I mean, she's already my favorite in the villa, and 454 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: she just proved why she is a fan favorite. For 455 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: those who haven't seen, Curtis came up to Mura after 456 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:49,720 Speaker 1: talking to Jordan, and Jordan confessed that he had these 457 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,680 Speaker 1: feelings for India, and Curtis was being a bit sly 458 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,960 Speaker 1: by telling, you know, I've got something to tell you, 459 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: it's sort of villa gossip, and Maura was like right, 460 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,720 Speaker 1: She just went into sort of code mode and immediately 461 00:24:01,840 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: went up and told Anna, which I think was so good. 462 00:24:04,760 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: Do you know what I actually thought about that as well? 463 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,920 Speaker 1: It was quite interesting if you remember from a few 464 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 1: weeks back, it was actually Anna who mentioned to Maura 465 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,920 Speaker 1: that Tom was ragging her out behind her back, too, 466 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 1: so that there probably was that loyalty there between them, 467 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 1: and I think that's one of the fantastic things about 468 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: this show. I mean, everyone jokes about it as being 469 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,919 Speaker 1: trash reality TV, but to see the strong females on 470 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: this show actually sticking up for herself. But I suppose 471 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: that was yet again another disappointing thing, because this isn't 472 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,840 Speaker 1: the only time that one of the females has been 473 00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:35,680 Speaker 1: gas lighted. Michael and Curtis have both tried to pass 474 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 1: ourselves off as the nice guys when they've completely turned 475 00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: everything on to Amy and Amber. Yeah. I couldn't believe 476 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:44,320 Speaker 1: when Curtis had that chat with Amy and poor Amy 477 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,160 Speaker 1: sitting there asking him what she's apparently done wrong, when 478 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,480 Speaker 1: it was he who was in the wrong for leading 479 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:52,959 Speaker 1: her on and then having his head turned by this 480 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,800 Speaker 1: model that wasn't interested. Don't you guys, And do you 481 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,520 Speaker 1: guys remember that chat where she said, Oh, I just 482 00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,040 Speaker 1: wanted to ask, what's what do I do like next 483 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: time in a MI in this situation? Is there something 484 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,200 Speaker 1: I did that was wrong? And rather than actually being 485 00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,920 Speaker 1: the nice guy and actually taking the blame, he then 486 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: manipulatively inferred that it was her fault because she was 487 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: a bit wingy and didn't imagine marrying her. I mean, 488 00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 1: that's hardly constructive criticism. I mean, then there's also Michael, 489 00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:21,840 Speaker 1: whose manipulation is more straightforward. He's always accusing Amber of 490 00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:25,000 Speaker 1: raising her voice, calling her childish and pathetic, because she 491 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,960 Speaker 1: dares to challenge his behavior. It was also earlier in 492 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 1: the series when Joe faced questions over his perceived manipulative 493 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: behavior towards Lucy when he told her that she couldn't 494 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,639 Speaker 1: spend any more time with Tommy or hang out with 495 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,159 Speaker 1: the boys. So it has been a really interesting series 496 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,080 Speaker 1: because those who have seen the final episode will have 497 00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:44,239 Speaker 1: seen the Amber and Greg have won. And a lot 498 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,240 Speaker 1: of people love Amber because she wasn't afraid to speak 499 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,200 Speaker 1: up to Michael and pick what was best for her 500 00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: and not go with the dickhead like a lot of 501 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,439 Speaker 1: girls usually do. I was shocked with the result, but 502 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,560 Speaker 1: you know, when you do break it down, it doesn't 503 00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: surprise me in terms of Amber's popularity, as you say, 504 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,640 Speaker 1: for standing up for herself, and also I suppose that 505 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:07,320 Speaker 1: it also helped that. I think Greg was probably one 506 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:10,560 Speaker 1: of the women's favorites. He's pretty easy on the eye. 507 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,160 Speaker 1: I think that probably assisted as well. But how did 508 00:26:13,240 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: Ovi not win? I'm sorry? I do love Ov and 509 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:19,919 Speaker 1: I think it was probably the connection to India that 510 00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 1: didn't get it across the line. But one thing that 511 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: I do love the more I think about Amber being 512 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:25,960 Speaker 1: the winner is the fact that Molly May didn't win. 513 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,280 Speaker 1: She's been very passive in her relationship with Tommy, never 514 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: really pushed the line there was that perfect couple, so 515 00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,639 Speaker 1: it was really nice to see that Amber start to 516 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,960 Speaker 1: her guns, didn't get back with Michael, and then at 517 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,920 Speaker 1: the end one so, I mean, I really don't think 518 00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:40,600 Speaker 1: Greg had that too much to do with it. I 519 00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:42,760 Speaker 1: think it was all girl power and it was a 520 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:46,000 Speaker 1: fantastic end to I'd say one of the best shows 521 00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:53,040 Speaker 1: I've ever watched. Well, thank you so much for joining 522 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,520 Speaker 1: us for our second episode of Outspoken the Podcast. If 523 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,119 Speaker 1: you'd like to continue the conversation, please head to our 524 00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:04,400 Speaker 1: Instagram account, which is Outspoken Underscore The Underscore Podcast. We 525 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:07,160 Speaker 1: also have a Facebook page by the same name if 526 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: you'd like to go and follow us. And we are 527 00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,439 Speaker 1: so excited for our next episode because we will be 528 00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 1: talking all things Bachelor, so make sure you tune in 529 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,160 Speaker 1: for that one. Thanks for joining us.