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Speaker 1: Welcome back to episode two of the Next. It's really

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Speaker 1: exciting to have you back to this episode. The Next

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Speaker 1: is a monthly podcast from the Female Athlete Project. Each episode,

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Speaker 1: futurist and former athlete Rihanna Brown joins myself, Chloe Dalton,

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Speaker 1: and Bez to explore what's changing in women's sport before

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Speaker 1: it hits the headlines which irene a light on the

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Speaker 1: pockets of the future already here, the signals of change

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Speaker 1: that are quietly or not so quietly, reshaping women's sport

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Speaker 1: in the present. Ree, how are you.

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Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm good. If you know from the previous episode,

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Speaker 2: there is a small part of me that is sad

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Speaker 2: because I have just under five hundred tabs open and

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Speaker 2: I pushed its boundaries and it was cooked, and so

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Speaker 2: I had to reboot, reset up my whole computer and

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Speaker 2: all the tabs are gone. So I'm just recovering from that.

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Speaker 1: So they are actually they're gone.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't kind of get the history or anything back,

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Speaker 2: so it's just fresh, a fresh start of scanning.

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Speaker 1: Now you do feel a bit like a shell of

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Speaker 1: yourself without all of your tabs. I'm in perceful by

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Speaker 1: how you've pulled this document together for this episode without

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Speaker 1: your five hundred on hand ready to go.

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Speaker 3: Do you think we've got that's got anything to do

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Speaker 3: with the solar storm we've just had or the beaver moon?

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Speaker 3: Two big things have happened in the last two weeks.

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Speaker 1: Is that what this episode's about? The beaver moon?

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Speaker 3: No?

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Speaker 2: I digress astrology and sport Discuss Discuss.

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Speaker 1: I loved seeing the feedback from episode one. It was

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Speaker 1: really really cool because I know that we've discussed it

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Speaker 1: amongst the three of us, but I feel like this

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Speaker 1: podcast as a whole is something that's really different for

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Speaker 1: us at the Female Athlete Project, and I think for

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Speaker 1: you Rea, I know you talk about the fact that

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Speaker 1: you do a lot of speaking, You meet lots of

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Speaker 1: different clients and different people who are often trying to

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Speaker 1: find where they can listen to you. So I think

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Speaker 1: really cool to kind of bring our two worlds together

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Speaker 1: to talk about some really interesting topics.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean this week alone, I've been with environmental managers,

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Speaker 2: sport HR farming groups, like a really kind of broad mix,

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Speaker 2: But I tend to come back to sport because I

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Speaker 2: love it as a setting and there's a lot going

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Speaker 2: on when I think of what's changed, and part of

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Speaker 2: my job is to almost help prime people. You know,

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Speaker 2: this idea of like when someone says, have you seen

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Speaker 2: a Volkswagen Golf and then all of a sudden you

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Speaker 2: start seeing Volkswagen golfs. It's really like that. So the

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Speaker 2: job is to almost prime people share the changes that

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Speaker 2: are going on with the view that it helps widen

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Speaker 2: our choices today, and that's really important. The more you

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Speaker 2: hear a change, the less overwhelmed you are like by it,

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Speaker 2: the more likely you are to want to do something

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Speaker 2: about it. You know, it's almost not a surprise. So

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Speaker 2: part of I guess the purpose of this pot is

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Speaker 2: also talking about some of the changes and then asking

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Speaker 2: questions about what does that mean and what do we

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Speaker 2: want to do because the future hasn't happened yet.

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Speaker 1: Do you call that barter minehoff, that theory, that whole

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Speaker 1: thing about cars, because that's what I call it. And

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Speaker 1: I'd like to ask someone really smart like you whether

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Speaker 1: that's the correct name for it, because that's what I.

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Speaker 3: Always call it, or if you've just made it up.

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Speaker 1: I probably have. That's why I'm checking.

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Speaker 2: I actually do not know, So you've stumped me. There

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Speaker 2: I know the phenomena, but I don't know the name set.

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Speaker 2: Can you say the name again?

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Speaker 1: I think it's German Bard and Minehoff. Do you know

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Speaker 1: what it? Probably was in one of your tabs that's

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Speaker 1: now disappeared, so you probably do know it, but you

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Speaker 1: just can't recall it. Moving on to the next and

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Speaker 1: this week's episode of the next read what have you

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Speaker 1: been noticing?

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Speaker 2: I have been paying attention to what I would call

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Speaker 2: the rise of big sport, So talking here about the

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Speaker 2: top end, like the top tier of sport. And I know,

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Speaker 2: before everybody acts me in the comments that not all

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Speaker 2: sport is there, and that a lot of women's sport

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Speaker 2: is not there. Some of it increasingly is there. But

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Speaker 2: for me, looking at the top end of sport is

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Speaker 2: really important because that sets the template and it shapes

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Speaker 2: a sense of what we think success looks like in sport.

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Speaker 2: And I think sport hasn't just gotten richer, it's changing shape.

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Speaker 2: You know, sport has evolved into a colossal billion dollar industry.

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Speaker 1: One of the things we were talking about BES and

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Speaker 1: I was project B this new women's basketball league. I

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Speaker 1: think in the US we've seen a lot of women's

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Speaker 1: leagues in a way starting up right, which I feel

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Speaker 1: like is part of what you're talking about. There re

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Speaker 1: the project b Wants due to launch in twenty twenty

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Speaker 1: six and has some pretty big backers as.

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Speaker 3: Well, based in Europe and Asia. There's debate as to

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Speaker 3: whether it's Saudi money, but and that hasn't been made

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Speaker 3: clear yet. But it's an interesting one. When you talk

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Speaker 3: about billionaires you're being involved in sport, you know they're

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Speaker 3: not doing it well. The majority of them are not

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Speaker 3: doing it for altruistic reasons. They're doing it to make money,

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Speaker 3: and that's what is happening in sport.

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Speaker 1: I noticed. So we do a couple of posts on

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Speaker 1: the Female Athletic Project where we have over time of

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Speaker 1: you know, Alexis o'hannian invests x amount of money into

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Speaker 1: this club, or Angel City has been valued to this amount,

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Speaker 1: or Chelsea's been valued at this amount. And there's a

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Speaker 1: couple of people who consistently come to our comment section

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Speaker 1: because majority of the time, I think our tone is

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Speaker 1: celebratory and a lot of people in the comments are

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Speaker 1: also celebrating women's sport being valued at these high numbers.

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Speaker 1: But there's a couple of people that come to question

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Speaker 1: this idea of is this definitely a positive thing. So

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Speaker 1: I'm kind of interested to break this down with you

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Speaker 1: a bit further today.

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Speaker 2: Ray, Yeah, I mean the big numbers floating around. I

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Speaker 2: think like Project B I saw and I'm not sure

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Speaker 2: if this has been confirmed, but some of those contracts,

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Speaker 2: so this was this is a basketball league. Essentially we're

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Speaker 2: around two million dollars. We know that if you think

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Speaker 2: the top end of town, it's like Ronaldo is on

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Speaker 2: seven hundred million for two years. You think a big

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Speaker 2: media money, you know the four point five billion or

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Speaker 2: whatever it was for the AFL broadcasting rights and women

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Speaker 2: athletes as well. I think it was Coco GoF earning

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Speaker 2: like thirty million dollars from sponsorship as well. But for me,

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Speaker 2: I think I'm always interested in that kind of change

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Speaker 2: the sitting behind this because it's not just about the

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Speaker 2: growth in the cash in the game, it's actually what's

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Speaker 2: shifting in terms of ownership incentives and control. So I

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Speaker 2: described this as shift, and there's a few things going on,

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Speaker 2: but one of the shifts is that I think sport

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Speaker 2: is now moving into an asset class. So you know

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Speaker 2: how investors buy shares and properties and they flip them,

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Speaker 2: or you wait and you sell them and you make

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Speaker 2: money from the resale. Sport is essentially becoming that. So

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Speaker 2: private equity is starting to move into global sport and

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Speaker 2: have a huge impact in that space. Two thirds of

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Speaker 2: the Major league, Major League Baseball, and NBA teams have

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Speaker 2: private equity backing. I really started to pay attention in

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty four. I think it was the NFL owners

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Speaker 2: let private equity funds buy minority stakes in the league.

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Speaker 2: So this is one of the biggest leagues in the world,

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Speaker 2: and we're essentially saying, like Wall Street can enter Australia's

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Speaker 2: biggest America's biggest league. It's the same with the Boston Celtics.

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Speaker 2: I think they just sold to private equity for like

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Speaker 2: six point one billions. But happening in other sports as well.

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Speaker 1: And how much of that are you seeing transfer into

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Speaker 1: women's sports or is it still too early.

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Speaker 2: It's definitely starting to happen in women's sport. So I'm watching,

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Speaker 2: you know, again, the top end of town. It's not

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Speaker 2: that interesting when we're talking about it with men's sport,

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Speaker 2: and it's not just happening in America too, So it's

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Speaker 2: happening in women's sport, youth sport and close to home.

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Speaker 2: I think it was I mean cricket Australia. I think

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Speaker 2: are looking at private equity sales or private sales for

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Speaker 2: the big bash league women's sport is the WNBL is

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Speaker 2: a really good example of that right now. Lots happening

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Speaker 2: in the NWSL, So the Football League in the US, I.

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Speaker 1: Feel like they've kind of really led the way in

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Speaker 1: that space for women's leagues.

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Speaker 2: The NWSL Yeah, so for me, I was paying attention

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Speaker 2: when they chained the rules to allow private equity in

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Speaker 2: But what was really interesting about that was they set

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Speaker 2: up a lot of guardrails, so something like funds private

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Speaker 2: equity funds could only own between five and twenty percent

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Speaker 2: and up to three clubs. So one of the biggest

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Speaker 2: issues with private equity is they can own multiple clubs,

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Speaker 2: multiple leagues and that's consequentially if you think from a

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Speaker 2: governance perspective, they have a lot of influence there. But

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Speaker 2: I know with the NWSL there is restrictions on how

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Speaker 2: many clubs I think it was only three. You could

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Speaker 2: own up to one hundred percent of a single team,

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Speaker 2: like a private equity owning that but it has to

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Speaker 2: be what they call an evergreen fund. So it's less

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Speaker 2: about the flip, you know, like flipping property. It's more

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Speaker 2: to say private equity is usually like a seven to

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Speaker 2: ten year thing. Buy the thing, then we flip it.

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Speaker 2: An evergreen fund is saying you can hold it forever,

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Speaker 2: and we actually encourage you to do that, so more stewardship.

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Speaker 2: But they put hard guard rails in two around no

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Speaker 2: sovereign wealth funds or state run investment vehicles or pension funds,

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Speaker 2: and I think there was a couple of other things.

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Speaker 2: So they've put it in. They've allowed private equity and

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Speaker 2: the league's kind of gone kaboom, but they've got guid

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Speaker 2: guard rails around it, which I think is interesting.

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Speaker 1: You touched on being closer to home with that Cricket

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Speaker 1: Australia example. The other one is that comes to mind

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Speaker 1: for me is the Netball Australia one a few years

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Speaker 1: back when they were I feel like there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of public discussion about Netball Australia and their governance

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Speaker 1: in general over the last few years. But there was

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Speaker 1: a private equity bid that lize Ellis was part of. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was knocked back again.

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Speaker 3: I think private equity is super tricky because from my

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Speaker 3: experience it has a reputation for the sporting organization of

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Speaker 3: almost all desperate times, we need to go out and

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Speaker 3: find some private equity money. We're in trouble here, We're

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Speaker 3: not being able to support and run the game ourselves.

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Speaker 3: Let's find a backer that will give us money to

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Speaker 3: let us do what we would like to do. I

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Speaker 3: feel like that has shifted. I feel like now private

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Speaker 3: equity is not something that's spoken about behind, you know,

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Speaker 3: in the boardroom only that it's now you know, almost

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Speaker 3: people are out there advertising that they have private equity

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Speaker 3: backing and it's a good thing. And I think that's

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Speaker 3: an interesting shift, and I'm not sure why it's happened.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that's completely translated though, from the US

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Speaker 1: to Australia, Because I feel like these US examples that

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Speaker 1: we talk about, to me, it's a really like positive

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Speaker 1: big money talk. But I still I still think with

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Speaker 1: the Australian examples, I think about rugby and netball. Like

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Speaker 1: you said, exactly what you said about it being like

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Speaker 1: Dias Straits.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's yeah. I'm it's a question that I don't

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Speaker 3: know the answer to. Because it does if you're if

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Speaker 3: your revenue, if you're kind of consistent revenue streams are

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Speaker 3: not performing, if your standards sporting revenue streams in regards

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Speaker 3: to say commercial partners broadcast deals are not up to

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Speaker 3: scratch and allowing you to be competitive in the sporting space,

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Speaker 3: then why do we look on it poorly to say

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Speaker 3: we're going to branch out and find a different revenue

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Speaker 3: stream and if that comes in the form of private

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Speaker 3: who so so be it?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? So do you do you think read then from

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Speaker 1: what you've been reading, is that a difference between America

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Speaker 1: because it's such a huge market, Like if we if

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Speaker 1: we talk about the Australian examples, are there any examples

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Speaker 1: where it has been a really positive thing?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean we're in the middle of that with

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Speaker 2: the WNBL at the moment, I think, which is quite

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Speaker 2: interesting bears a sense test what you were just saying

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Speaker 2: then around why would we turn that down? And I

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Speaker 2: think sport isn't outside of what's happening more broadly, like

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Speaker 2: just the financialization of everything and the platformization of everything.

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Speaker 2: Private equity are buying properties now on mass, So it's

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Speaker 2: not outside of changing economic models, which I think is interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's just starting to show up inside of sport. I

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Speaker 2: think it was twenty twenty three. I remember Football Australia

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Speaker 2: were looking to sell the men and women's national teams,

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Speaker 2: the soccer Is and the Matilda's essentially to private equity

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Speaker 2: for ninety nine years and it didn't go ahead for

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Speaker 2: variety of reasons. It was like privacy for participants and

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Speaker 2: non for profit tax exemptions. But that's a good little

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Speaker 2: social test of how confident or what's our response to that,

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Speaker 2: which I think is interesting. What I would probably say though,

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Speaker 2: is what's shifting is sport has new ways of being

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Speaker 2: able to monetize. So unlike before, you know, big money

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Speaker 2: in private equity, I think is investing in sport because

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Speaker 2: there's so many different ways to make money from it

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Speaker 2: now it's not just like ticket sales or going to

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Speaker 2: the game. Most of the money used to come from

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Speaker 2: game day. Now you can get money from sport twenty

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Speaker 2: four seven. It's like a twenty four to seven shop front.

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Speaker 2: So it's moved from like a weekend ritual to what

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Speaker 2: I would call a twenty four to seven attention engine.

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Speaker 2: It's got big tech overtones almost, so there's platforms where

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Speaker 2: you know the content and the media then gets put

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Speaker 2: into little bits across different platforms and different social media feeds.

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Speaker 2: Data is becoming revenue. Every click is revenue for advertising.

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Speaker 2: Sports bedding is a new wave of monetize it just

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Speaker 2: like big tech algorithms and deciding on the moments that

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Speaker 2: become money and directing attention. So the infrastructure is really changing,

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Speaker 2: and I think for me, I mean I even asked

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Speaker 2: the question of myself, when was the last time I

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Speaker 2: watch a full match? Or do I watch packages?

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Speaker 3: In when you watched a full game of something? And

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Speaker 3: what was it?

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Speaker 2: It was the WNBL WNBL and I yeah, definitely WBL,

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Speaker 2: but we always skipped the second quarter because that's a

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Speaker 2: side theory that no one needs to no one really

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Speaker 2: cares about. But yeah, WNBL, we're going to.

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Speaker 3: Take that on offline because I need to know that, Yes, insane,

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Speaker 3: what about you?

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Speaker 1: Mine would be an AFLW game, although I feel like

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Speaker 1: my one year old gets in the way of afore

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Speaker 1: game these days.

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Speaker 3: Poor Fred gets blame for a lot.

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Speaker 1: He does get blamed for a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, you're right, though, It's tough, Like I consume a

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Speaker 3: lot of sport and mine was probably Chelsea's Champions League

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Speaker 3: game on Wednesday morning. But again, when you talk about

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Speaker 3: just proper watching, that was eight o'clock in the morning, So.

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Speaker 1: Were you double screening.

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Speaker 3: I was doing everything. You know, it was on in

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Speaker 3: the background. So I guess to your point read the

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Speaker 3: diversification of having to find ways to connect with the

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Speaker 3: audience and clicks and things like that because we aren't

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Speaker 3: just sitting down for an hour and a half and

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Speaker 3: watching a game.

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Speaker 1: It's like the whole Netflix theory about them making shows

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Speaker 1: for double screening, Like they make shows that have that

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Speaker 1: are lacking a storyline enough that you can follow along

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Speaker 1: even if you're scrolling on your phone, Like that blows

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Speaker 1: my mind. But they're just catering to in futures, that's

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Speaker 1: what the audience. I don't think it's what the audience wants,

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Speaker 1: but that's the reality of where the audience is at

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Speaker 1: a lot of the time, right.

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Speaker 2: Because the eyeballs are money, And that's that's what I'm

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Speaker 2: saying about sports become really attractive as an investment space

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Speaker 2: because there's so many different ways to make money from

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Speaker 2: it now, not just ticket sales on the weekend. It's

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Speaker 2: like there's platforms that then enable whole new forms of monetization,

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Speaker 2: and I think that has also been a converging factor

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Speaker 2: of why we're seeing so much money in the game.

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Speaker 2: I think the other thing that's really interesting is that

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Speaker 2: sport as an investment is like a new concept in

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Speaker 2: a way, but it used to have like a halo effect.

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Speaker 2: You know, Sport's like this special kind of business. It's

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Speaker 2: allowed to self police, you know, we'll deal with our

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Speaker 2: integrity issues or whatever. But I think the more money

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Speaker 2: that goes into sport, the less the more critique. You know,

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Speaker 2: we're looking at a rising amount of inquiries into sport.

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Speaker 2: Governments are intervening around things like concussion. We've just seen

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Speaker 2: the NBA. It's like investigations around sports betting. So sport

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Speaker 2: becomes more financialized and like big business, it's losing its

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Speaker 2: social license and getting more scrutiny from a just a

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Speaker 2: broader business perspective.

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Speaker 1: The interesting on that scrutiny point, when you brought up

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Speaker 1: earlier around Project B it was there was like huge

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Speaker 1: backlash about whether it was Saudi funded or not. And

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Speaker 1: that's now when you type project being to Google, that

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Speaker 1: is now what comes up this argument about is it

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Speaker 1: Saudi funded, and then people from project be pushing back

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Speaker 1: saying it's not like it's so interesting this I think

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Speaker 1: this scrutiny that comes with it, and also obviously when

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Speaker 1: it is such big money, where is this big money

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Speaker 1: coming from a lot of the time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I mean that's another form of investment angle

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Speaker 2: is nations, which we've not really had that before. So

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Speaker 2: sports becoming you know, an investment for the state for states. Essentially,

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Speaker 2: we know that Saudis have the public investment fun that

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Speaker 2: has bankrolled things like live golf, Newcastle United, a whole

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Speaker 2: bunch of other things, but equally watching what's happening with

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Speaker 2: China and India too and how things are shaping and

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Speaker 2: changing there. India in particular, like some of those IPL

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Speaker 2: clubs are worth over a billion dollars. They're also one

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Speaker 2: of the youngest nations in the world. They've got a

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Speaker 2: huge tech scene that's growing, and they're athletes are serious

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Speaker 2: venture capital investors with a global, massive audience. Like those

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Speaker 2: three things coming together is a big watch this space.

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Speaker 2: For me, it's the big athlete energy though, I think

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Speaker 2: like in parallel to sport changing, so are athletes, and

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Speaker 2: you would have both seen this the big shifts from

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Speaker 2: athletes just seeking sponsorship to actually saying no, I actually

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Speaker 2: want equity and ownership. Now that's enormous. So they're not

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Speaker 2: just watching this transformation, they're actually becoming part of the transformers.

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Speaker 2: We know. Athletes are now venture capitalists, they have investments.

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Speaker 2: I think there's the Athletic Adventures which has like Sam Kerr,

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Speaker 2: I think Pat Commons still an all coot, that's a

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Speaker 2: twenty five.

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Speaker 3: I've heard Globy Dalton.

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Speaker 1: Oh really, she doesn't get named in the press releases,

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Speaker 1: but she's in there.

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Speaker 2: Will tell us you're the living example of that.

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Speaker 1: I am the living example. So Athletic Ventures was founded

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Speaker 1: by Delhi, Matthew Delaverdover and Matt Dbor who was a

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Speaker 1: Giants player in AFL. So it's about I think the

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Speaker 1: whole concept is about elite athletes who try and find

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Speaker 1: elite founders, and I think the bringing together of the

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Speaker 1: exceptional skills that you get in sports as an elite

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Speaker 1: athlete being able to I guess, identify and find those

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Speaker 1: to back businesses that align with Athletic Ventures, and to

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Speaker 1: then also use the athletes profiles to help to grow

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Speaker 1: these startups. So it's kind of a bit of a

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Speaker 1: win win where it's investing cash into the startups, but

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Speaker 1: then at the same time it's leveraging the athletes profiles

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Speaker 1: to gain I feel like I've pretty much just said

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Speaker 1: the same sentence twice, but I am part of it.

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Speaker 1: Even though I don't get mentioned in the big PR releases,

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Speaker 1: I am part of it, and I think it's a

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Speaker 1: really cool community. It's all about education as well. But

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Speaker 1: I think just what you touched on earlier around the

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Speaker 1: equity piece, I think it's a really I know it's

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Speaker 1: been a really interesting experience for me as an athlete

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Speaker 1: understanding my intellectual property and how that works when I'm

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Speaker 1: representing a club or a national team. Early days as

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Speaker 1: an athlete, when you're younger, you probably don't understand what

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Speaker 1: it is, and probably depending on how you perform and

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Speaker 1: how your profile grows, the value of that also grows

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Speaker 1: over time. And so I feel like for me, when

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Speaker 1: we talk about this, when athletes have these conversation about

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Speaker 1: these transactional sponsorships and one off deals, in a way,

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Speaker 1: you're kind of selling this small part of your IP

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Speaker 1: for something that I feel like a brand can really

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Speaker 1: lean on for a longer period of time. So that's

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Speaker 1: why I think the equity and ownership piece for athletes

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Speaker 1: has started to become such a big thing because I

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Speaker 1: think athletes have realized, like, hang on a second, I

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Speaker 1: have a lot of value and we know there's actually

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Speaker 1: data about the voice that athletes have and female athletes

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Speaker 1: have as well, in being able to convince people this

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Speaker 1: is a great brand. This is why you should trust

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Speaker 1: this brand, you know. So I think there's huge power

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Speaker 1: in the athlete profile in that space.

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Speaker 2: I mean, they're creating their own leagues as well, so

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Speaker 2: it's like, yes, athletes shifting to become VCS investors. Early on,

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Speaker 2: I remember watching Serena Williams shift into setting up a

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Speaker 2: whole Serena Williams benches, which is really interesting. But that's

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Speaker 2: again that's happening close to home, as you mentioned, Chloe.

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Speaker 2: But the watching athletes now set up their own leagues

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Speaker 2: is really interesting thing for me to watch. It's like,

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Speaker 2: do I even necessarily have to play by these rules anymore?

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Speaker 2: Can we just go on leverage our brand and now money?

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Speaker 2: I think because athletes are earning, some are earning such

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Speaker 2: significant amount that becomes consequential to be able to make

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Speaker 2: those leaps right with their brand, their global brand and

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Speaker 2: the cash behind them, and.

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Speaker 3: I think kind of almost not counter to that, but

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Speaker 3: I wonder how much motivation is how much of the

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Speaker 3: motivation behind setting up these leagues is dissatisfaction with the

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Speaker 3: current league therein so for instance, Unrivaled in which we

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Speaker 3: touched on, started by Branda Stewart and the FISA Collier.

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Speaker 3: You know, the Unrivaled wages are more than a w NBA.

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Speaker 1: Wage for a really short period of time.

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Speaker 3: I taught three on three three x three basketball competition

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Speaker 3: because and these are two big dogs that said, you know,

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Speaker 3: we're going to actually we're going to create an environment

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Speaker 3: where we're going to allow revenue share, which is something

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Speaker 3: that w n b A and their players association are

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Speaker 3: fighting about at the moment, but you know, a model

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Speaker 3: that includes revshare. And I feel like there is an

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Speaker 3: element of this. We're athletes are saying, you know what,

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Speaker 3: just because it's always been done this way, just because

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Speaker 3: my association does this, does it this way, I've got

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Speaker 3: an idea and try it this way, which I think

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Speaker 3: is fantastic.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, Red. You touched on Coco Goff and

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Speaker 1: the thirty mili in commercial deals. What do you know

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Speaker 1: much about what she's done in terms of setting up

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Speaker 1: her own company.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I think this is the other thing, the other

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Speaker 2: shift too as well. So it's athletes becoming you know,

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Speaker 2: moving to equity and ownership, setting up their own leg

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Speaker 2: which is really interesting, but also becoming their own company

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Speaker 2: as the way of having total control over all elements

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Speaker 2: of their business and how things are monetized. The other

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Speaker 2: manifestation of that, I guess her extension of that is

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Speaker 2: athletes setting up media businesses, which is really interesting. I

436
00:23:44,680 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 2: think is it Lebron James I think has a media business.

437
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's very cool. I like the stuff they put out.

438
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:53,399
Speaker 1: That's cool.

439
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,440
Speaker 2: Part of it for me is again I'm always interested

440
00:23:56,480 --> 00:23:59,720
Speaker 2: in the shift, not just this independent signals, is this

441
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:06,080
Speaker 2: shift from labor to owners. So I've always seen athletes

442
00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 2: as workers, which is not as controversial as it used

443
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 2: to be, but they are essentially are workers, but shifting

444
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,359
Speaker 2: from you know, being a worker to actually being an

445
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 2: owner of things. And I don't think, like everything else

446
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 2: that's sports in a vacuum here. That's happening more broadly

447
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: in society is people wanting to have portfolio careers and

448
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 2: do freelancing work and the rise of entrepreneurism and small

449
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,920
Speaker 2: business or just job juggling. A million people in Australia

450
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,640
Speaker 2: have more than one job, and sometimes that's by choice

451
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:41,520
Speaker 2: and the necessity, but it's a broader pattern, I guess

452
00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:45,360
Speaker 2: is what I'm saying, which is really interesting counter attention

453
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:48,040
Speaker 2: when you've got big money and athletes getting big money

454
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 2: and there are bigger questions around power, governance and control.

455
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: Have you seen different examples of pushback on that.

456
00:24:56,880 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. So when I do futures work, I always say

457
00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 2: that change doesn't just happen neatly in a straight line.

458
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: It's tens there's tensions, there's dilemmas. With every trend or change,

459
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:13,320
Speaker 2: there's a counter trend. I really pay attention to resistance

460
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,040
Speaker 2: movements just because of course I do, but it's an

461
00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 2: interesting insight to change. So I think it was last

462
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 2: year German fans came together football fans to protest against

463
00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,520
Speaker 2: a billion euro private equity deal for part of the

464
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: media rights I think for the German Football League. And

465
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,399
Speaker 2: they were throwing tennis balls on the pitch. They were

466
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 2: using remote control cars to stop games, they were putting

467
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 2: bicycle locks on goalposts, doing a whole bunch of things.

468
00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 2: But it was effective. It worked, just as the was

469
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,199
Speaker 2: it in the was it the Premier League in the

470
00:25:54,280 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 2: UK when they tried to have was it the Premier League?

471
00:25:57,760 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 2: They tried to have that super league.

472
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 3: Yes recently, well a European super League thing, but it

473
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,320
Speaker 3: was absolutely shouted down.

474
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it got overthrown. So I think it was

475
00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: some big owners saying let's go set up a special

476
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:15,080
Speaker 2: league on the side, and I remember one of the

477
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:19,040
Speaker 2: slogans being talking about Super League as the super Greed

478
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: and it was chance and protest by fans, and for

479
00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: me it was such a good indicator of like, when

480
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,840
Speaker 2: there's not fan consent, things don't just get to happen

481
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:36,160
Speaker 2: really nearly. You've actually got some pushback. The players associations,

482
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,360
Speaker 2: I think are doing a bit in this space too,

483
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 2: because if you think private owners own leagues multiple clubs,

484
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: that's a lot of power and they start to set

485
00:26:46,359 --> 00:26:54,119
Speaker 2: schedules right around kind of eyeballs and optimize viewing or outputs.

486
00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 2: And it was the fifth pro I think we're arguing

487
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 2: against the expanded was in twenty twenty five the World Cup,

488
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 2: saying that expanding this out actually violates the player rights,

489
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:11,160
Speaker 2: so there's no off season anymore. And if you're a

490
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: if you're an athlete, your body ended up paying the

491
00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 2: interest because the calendars now serve the capital right the

492
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 2: people that are investing in this space, which is a

493
00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 2: whole interesting tension.

494
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,439
Speaker 1: I thought that the AFL conversation around the what's it

495
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,720
Speaker 1: called the wildcard round, we were talking about that around

496
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: it's more money for the broadcasters, and it's more eyeballs,

497
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,479
Speaker 1: and it's another round of footy. But just for the players,

498
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 1: they're already doing what a twenty four round season and

499
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,720
Speaker 1: then going into finals these ten teams. I think, as

500
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 1: you said, Rie, it's this as the capital grows, the

501
00:27:50,240 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 1: demands on athletes are just going to continue to increase.

502
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,479
Speaker 1: And if it's a diversification in ownership structure, it just

503
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,360
Speaker 1: can become very muddy about who's expen things from these athletes.

504
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,639
Speaker 3: So and then the question needs to be asked if

505
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 3: you are you know, I go to work and my body,

506
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 3: the condition of my body, generally speaking, does not dictate

507
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 3: my performance. If you are playing in a sporting league

508
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 3: that is asking you to play more of your sport,

509
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,280
Speaker 3: or you know, for longer periods, et cetera, et cetera,

510
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,240
Speaker 3: and that is potentially going to affect the one thing

511
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 3: that you really need to do your job, you know,

512
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,159
Speaker 3: the athlete has to have some pushback on that. And

513
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,879
Speaker 3: that's what I'm seeing. And I think interestingly when we

514
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:43,080
Speaker 3: talk about additional leagues or you know, alternative leagues being

515
00:28:43,120 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 3: set up by the likes of the Saudi Private Investment

516
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 3: Fund of things like that, if those and I'm kind

517
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 3: of in my front of my mind here, I've got

518
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 3: R three sixty that the rugby competition that is being

519
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 3: potentially well it is it's a Saudi money rugby competition

520
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 3: driven by Mike Tindall, who is a former English test

521
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 3: player also married to a royal, so it's got it's

522
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,440
Speaker 3: a big profile in the UK. So R three sixty

523
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,600
Speaker 3: is slated to start next year. I think eight men's teams,

524
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:20,920
Speaker 3: six women's teams based all over the world. Franchise kind

525
00:29:20,960 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 3: of set up in regards to where they're based. But

526
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,520
Speaker 3: the money, if we're just talking money in regards to

527
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:29,720
Speaker 3: the women's side of the game, which is what I

528
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 3: focused on. The salary is a roomored to be up

529
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 3: to for the big dogs about two hundred and fifty

530
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 3: pounds a year, right for a couple of marquee players.

531
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 3: Now if you compare that to what an English say

532
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 3: in English, Rose who've just won the World Cup can

533
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,160
Speaker 3: earn domestically at the same time when that same competition

534
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 3: is running the salary cap for the PWR teams two

535
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty thousand pounds for the whole team, the

536
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 3: whole squad of So again I come back to that

537
00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:06,600
Speaker 3: the point about your body being your job, and your

538
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 3: body being you know, a finite thing that don't going

539
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 3: to perform for a certain amount of time. If we

540
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:17,479
Speaker 3: have these big businesses coming in and offering you big money,

541
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,920
Speaker 3: I'm not sure how you say no. And it's really interesting.

542
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 3: R three sixty in particular is is facing a fight

543
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 3: because all the world rugby unions have said if you

544
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 3: go on a sign with R three sixty, you cannot

545
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 3: play for your country.

546
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 1: But I think what there's obviously a real lack of

547
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: transparency from R three sixty, which is I think why

548
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 1: they've got themselves in some real hot water with a

549
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 1: lot of those with a lot of those unions. But

550
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:45,680
Speaker 1: I think what they've done a great job of in

551
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: my opinion as an outsider, is they've said to the athletes,

552
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,200
Speaker 1: you can be based where you want to be based.

553
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:53,520
Speaker 1: We only need you for X weeks of the year.

554
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:55,479
Speaker 1: They've done it in a way that has made it

555
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: athlete first, to make it as appealing as possible. And

556
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: then for the athlete it probably feels like, well, it's

557
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: actually my my national body, my union, that's that's holding

558
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: me back to these really rigid rules around it. So

559
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:11,840
Speaker 1: it's really it's a really interesting tension point.

560
00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 3: It's a really interesting tension point, and it's a really

561
00:31:14,120 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 3: interesting thought process of for the athlete. And you're one,

562
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 3: you know, you can probably answer this. Playing for your

563
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,959
Speaker 3: country meant how much to you?

564
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:26,400
Speaker 1: More than money could ever buy.

565
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:27,479
Speaker 3: So there's your answer.

566
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 2: But so that's what how much money?

567
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 3: That's right, So that's what they're leveraging and how much

568
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 3: what are you're throwing out?

569
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:39,520
Speaker 2: But that's the question, right exactly. Of I think of

570
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 2: a couple of things. One I think of that example

571
00:31:42,880 --> 00:31:47,880
Speaker 2: when Diana Tarassi was paid to sit out a season

572
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: when she was playing in Russia, Like what does that

573
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 2: look like when these big leagues are saying and cricket

574
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 2: is dealing with this right now. It's like we can't

575
00:31:57,520 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: match the salaries of the IPL and everything else, Like

576
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:05,479
Speaker 2: how do we hold something special about playing for your

577
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 2: national team? Because I don't think it's too much of

578
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,760
Speaker 2: a stretch to think these big comps saying look, we'll

579
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,960
Speaker 2: pay you to miss those seasons or your national competition.

580
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,680
Speaker 2: On the flip side, though, in terms of the tension

581
00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,560
Speaker 2: and the pushback, some players themselves and athletes that are

582
00:32:22,640 --> 00:32:25,480
Speaker 2: choosing these things are getting pushedback. We know that from

583
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 2: you know, Live Golf and how divisive that was even

584
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:36,360
Speaker 2: with the Project B at the moment. So Niki Agoo Mackay,

585
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: she's the WNBA Players Association President, she was one of

586
00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:44,360
Speaker 2: the first people to come out to sign for possibly millions,

587
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:50,040
Speaker 2: and just the pushback socially. I noticed something really interesting

588
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 2: even during COVID here when people were experiencing, you know,

589
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: just the overwhelming angst around everything, all the things, is

590
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:05,680
Speaker 2: there was a pushback against athletes, the men's AFL players

591
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: complaining about their salaries at the time. So see what

592
00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:12,680
Speaker 2: I mean, It's like, it's not just straight line thing.

593
00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: There are tensions and pushbacks and that exact R three

594
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 2: sixty example, we're going to see way more of.

595
00:33:17,280 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 3: That we are, and I think, God, I'm throwing another

596
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,520
Speaker 3: thing in here. But if you look at as we

597
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:27,480
Speaker 3: spoke about, you know, being an athlete as again you

598
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,760
Speaker 3: know better than anyone here is a short term thing.

599
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:38,920
Speaker 3: Your earning capacity window is very narrow. You know, you

600
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,120
Speaker 3: have to make money while you can.

601
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,920
Speaker 1: The thing that keeps popping into my mind is James

602
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:46,920
Speaker 1: Magnuson with what's it called that thing?

603
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: Take drugs and swim that thing?

604
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:53,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, that name. That's what keeps popping into into my

605
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 1: mind for this conversation because I think it's such as

606
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: can of worms. That one. I don't think we need

607
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: to go into detail on that. But this idea, like

608
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 1: the question you put to me, Ree, like how much

609
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,479
Speaker 1: is it? What is the tipping point for you as

610
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 1: an athlete? Would have been the.

611
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: Tipping point for you as an athlete to not go

612
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 3: to re Olympics and win a gold medal?

613
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,959
Speaker 1: No, I think you could have tempted me post rio,

614
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: not pre rio.

615
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: Okay, So it's a timing thing.

616
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 1: I think it's a timing thing. I think once I

617
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 1: won my gold medal, throw a few meal at me.

618
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:25,879
Speaker 1: I'll go work.

619
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,720
Speaker 3: I mean to be honest that that's a really valid point.

620
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:36,360
Speaker 3: It is if you as an athlete, as a young athlete,

621
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:40,919
Speaker 3: if you I'm sure most athletes have a dream to win,

622
00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:44,719
Speaker 3: to reach the pinnacle of their sport. Once you've done that,

623
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 3: and this is another point once and you actually see

624
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: a lot of people doing this. Once they've reached the pinnacle,

625
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 3: they then take the cash somewhere and whether that's you know,

626
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: wherever it might be, and they're judged for it, which

627
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:01,840
Speaker 3: is again just mind blowing. You. You've reached a pinnacle

628
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,200
Speaker 3: or you've achieved your dreams. Now it's time to make

629
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 3: sure that you're going to live well, very well, probably

630
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:07,760
Speaker 3: for the rest of your life.

631
00:35:08,040 --> 00:35:09,840
Speaker 1: And I've said this a few times, and this is

632
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: on a much smaller scale, but that just reminded me

633
00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 1: Busin as you were talking about it. When AFLW players

634
00:35:14,840 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 1: have moved clubs potentially to sign a bigger deal and

635
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:22,000
Speaker 1: the pushback that they get from really loyal club supporters

636
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,760
Speaker 1: and members and fans, which I really respect the loyalty piece,

637
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: but I've always been a really big advocate for these

638
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,759
Speaker 1: players that haven't probably been even receiving enough to get

639
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,640
Speaker 1: a full time salary to them potentially get an opportunity

640
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:37,160
Speaker 1: that might only be ten or twenty thousand dollars more

641
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,320
Speaker 1: a year, but might make a really significant difference for

642
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 1: these impacts for these athletes. Sorry, and I know that's

643
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: on a much smaller scale, but just that broader conversation

644
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:50,680
Speaker 1: about how athletes are scrutinized for making decisions that to

645
00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 1: the public eye might not be perceived very well. But sometimes,

646
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 1: as you say, trying to leverage this very small window

647
00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:58,600
Speaker 1: of time they have.

648
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 3: Absolutely And again it comes back to sport being a business.

649
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 3: And if in business, you're doing a job and someone

650
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 3: comes to you and says, hey, i'll pay you three

651
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 3: times as much do the same job over here, do

652
00:36:08,640 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 3: you say no?

653
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: It's a very difficult question.

654
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:16,320
Speaker 2: It's a big question. Well, I mean, Chloe, your dilemma,

655
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 2: I think is very indicative of the fact that I

656
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: think women's sport is at a crossroads now. So the

657
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,240
Speaker 2: growth is real, the numbers are real, but it's really uneven.

658
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 2: I think women's sport has become an asset. It is

659
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 2: becoming an asset. We know that you're talking about. Then

660
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 2: you do all the benefits its sponsors are now starting

661
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 2: to see, but it's also an undercapitalized market and it's

662
00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 2: just starting to get noticed. There's I mean, the numbers

663
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 2: are so telling. The WNBA expansions, Angel cities two hundred

664
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 2: and fifty million dollar valuation, private equity moving and setting

665
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 2: up specific women's sports venture arms, which is really interesting

666
00:36:57,040 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 2: women becoming owners or women of owners of clubs. And

667
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:03,360
Speaker 2: then I think I look to keep looking to places

668
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 2: like India and what's happening there with the Premier League

669
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: over there. So I think we're at a four k

670
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:13,520
Speaker 2: inn road. And part of it is to say we've

671
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 2: got two options in a way. One we can copy

672
00:37:16,239 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 2: the men's template, which is about you know, fast visibility,

673
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,799
Speaker 2: big money investor first metrics. Everything's about scaling and monetizing.

674
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 2: The risks we get from that are things like what

675
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 2: we just talked about, the calendar stress. You know, the

676
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,040
Speaker 2: body is paying for the growth price inflation is really

677
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 2: to some clubs are worth ridiculous amounts, and it's like

678
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 2: the housing market, you know, it's like that's just not

679
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: necessarily a tenable thing. And then the reputational entanglements like

680
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:50,279
Speaker 2: the live golf's a really good example for that. I

681
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,520
Speaker 2: think the downside for me. So with that path, path

682
00:37:54,560 --> 00:37:57,160
Speaker 2: ase we copy the men's template is that sport becomes

683
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 2: too expensive to play to what I think of like

684
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,880
Speaker 2: the Caitlyn Clark effect of just the tiny examples of

685
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 2: how it doubled or tripled the price of tickets to

686
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:12,040
Speaker 2: see the Indiana Fever. And so if you're just wanting

687
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 2: to go watch your local team or the team that

688
00:38:15,080 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 2: you support, sports people are being priced out of sport

689
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,360
Speaker 2: and that's kind of one of the downsides where it

690
00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 2: becomes like a luxury product in a way. Or the

691
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: other path is that we actually build something different. So

692
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 2: we use this moment where we're starting to see these

693
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:38,120
Speaker 2: patterns and this form of finance as a model, move

694
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,839
Speaker 2: into women's sport and we think about something different. There's

695
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: heaps of things that are happening, so part of what

696
00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:45,879
Speaker 2: I do is to try and find examples of where

697
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: are their pockets of different things that are actually happening today.

698
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: I love that women's sport is already doing some of this.

699
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,640
Speaker 2: So Angel City FC ten percent of their sponsorship goes

700
00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,239
Speaker 2: back to community and that's hard coded in all of

701
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: their contracts. And they have this thing where they talk

702
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 2: about publishing impact receipts. So how is the money that

703
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:10,480
Speaker 2: you're getting actually been put back into community and not

704
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,880
Speaker 2: just like everything else in the world going to a

705
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 2: very small few, including athletes being part of that we're seeing.

706
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 2: I loved this piece. It was I think it was

707
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: the Atlanta Dream, the WNBA, one of their sponsors, cash Up.

708
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: They came together and they donated an eraised ten million

709
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 2: dollars in medical debt for three and a half thousand atlantns.

710
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,360
Speaker 2: So how money is being put back very intentionally, back

711
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:41,640
Speaker 2: into community. So it's something really different. I think that's

712
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:46,240
Speaker 2: showing up in women's sport already. So yeah, build something different.

713
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:47,200
Speaker 2: Copy the template.

714
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,359
Speaker 3: And a question for you, Ree, do you think that

715
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 3: these alternative approaches are born out of a need to

716
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: find a diversify income strength.

717
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, and I would say, I mean, we definitely

718
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,280
Speaker 2: need to find us fight income streams, and there's models

719
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 2: in front of us, like you mentioned, what's the Reddit.

720
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:21,440
Speaker 2: Guy Williams's husband, Serena Williams's husband, He's just come out

721
00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 2: saying women's like there'll be a billion dollar owners or

722
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 2: investors in something like that. So I think that, But

723
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,319
Speaker 2: then Chloe, it makes me think of something. It was

724
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 2: so tiny that you said, and I was just wedged

725
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,200
Speaker 2: in my mind about the sports bedding stuff and saying,

726
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 2: I hope not. I'd hope not in the in women's sport.

727
00:40:39,840 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 2: So for me, it's like I'm seeing the use of

728
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:48,760
Speaker 2: those those current models, but in ways that really hold

729
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 2: the spirit of what I think women's sport does really

730
00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 2: really well, which is like, you know, the community impact focused.

731
00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:00,239
Speaker 2: I think Angel City they give like ten per center

732
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 2: their profit or something away, so new models in a way,

733
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: I think that is an exciting response, but also we

734
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 2: get the chance to choose. We're not as entangled right now.

735
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:16,360
Speaker 2: Like once you're in that entanglement, it is very hard

736
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,120
Speaker 2: to pull out an untangle from that.

737
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 3: And I think, and I agree with you. I love

738
00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,880
Speaker 3: the fact that women's sport has the opportunity to do

739
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:27,760
Speaker 3: it a different way, and I think that that's something

740
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 3: that has happened because out of necessity. But I think

741
00:41:33,560 --> 00:41:35,200
Speaker 3: we need to hang on to it. I don't think

742
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 3: that now it has become more mainstream, that we need

743
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,080
Speaker 3: to then just change change lanes straight into the way

744
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 3: that men's sport is run. And I think for me,

745
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 3: a really kind of simple example of that is the

746
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 3: existence of pride rounds in most female leagues and the

747
00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 3: complete non existent of pride rounds in most men's leagues.

748
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 3: And again, it's just something that the women's game has

749
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:07,880
Speaker 3: felt comfortable celebrating and comfortable, you know, putting out there,

750
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:10,320
Speaker 3: whereas the men's not interested.

751
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,799
Speaker 2: It's the opportunity, it's opportunity. Do you think I mean

752
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:18,640
Speaker 2: part of the future, I think is it happens in

753
00:42:18,680 --> 00:42:21,480
Speaker 2: the present. Part of it is to say what is

754
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,360
Speaker 2: the what are the new things we need to do,

755
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,760
Speaker 2: but also what do we want to defend into the future,

756
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:30,480
Speaker 2: and what about those parts of women's sport and its

757
00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: connection to community as we can get the chance to

758
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:37,760
Speaker 2: see a lot of men's sport become a luxury product.

759
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,680
Speaker 2: This is my own personal view here, that is becoming

760
00:42:40,719 --> 00:42:44,359
Speaker 2: impossible to like, a lot of people can't even go

761
00:42:44,440 --> 00:42:47,839
Speaker 2: to games anymore of a lot of live sport, and

762
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 2: I think that's really interesting. I think there's a shift

763
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,960
Speaker 2: in knowing that even with private equity, there's some private

764
00:42:54,960 --> 00:42:58,000
Speaker 2: equity groups that are purposely looking for women's clubs that

765
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,560
Speaker 2: are not entangled inside men's clubs. So they're saying we

766
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 2: don't want that entanglement. Actually, it's really hard to then

767
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:07,799
Speaker 2: get in and shape it the way that we want.

768
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:10,879
Speaker 2: So I think there's an opportunity there to say, if

769
00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 2: we don't have all of the hookups of those systems,

770
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:18,640
Speaker 2: those shared services that you know, ownership complexity or whatever

771
00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:22,799
Speaker 2: it may be, we can shape a product that's really specific,

772
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 2: unique to us, like Kansas City setting up their own

773
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,279
Speaker 2: women's purposely focus women's stadium. And again that's because it's

774
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:36,919
Speaker 2: designed intentionally that way to say we can not over

775
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 2: invest too much and we can get a certain amount

776
00:43:40,480 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 2: of people there. So yeah, it's a fork in the road,

777
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,799
Speaker 2: and I think that if we look hard enough, my

778
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: job is to say, there's lots of other different ways.

779
00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:54,839
Speaker 2: Even inside Sport Green Bay Packers, they have like five

780
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:59,040
Speaker 2: hundred thousand fans as shareholders. They've got a non for

781
00:43:59,120 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: profit structure so that community votes on major decisions, which

782
00:44:03,560 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: I think is really fascinating. There's a whole crowd funding

783
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 2: wave as well. There's a couple of clubs in the

784
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 2: US where there's a bunch of community investors. There are

785
00:44:14,760 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 2: other models emerging, And I went down the biggest rabbit

786
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 2: hole in this space around direct investment and athletes as well.

787
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:29,040
Speaker 2: So you can go in and you know, Chloe is

788
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: an up and coming what'sport? Didn't you do like pole Volta, go,

789
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 2: but let's do it. I can come in essentially look

790
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 2: at you know, invest in you like I'm investing in

791
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,640
Speaker 2: your future career. So I can say, at the moment

792
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,640
Speaker 2: you're two hundred in the world, I can invest ten

793
00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: grand and I get access to a certain percentage of

794
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 2: earnings of yours as you go up to play.

795
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 3: Do not invest in Chloe as a pole Volta. Just

796
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:58,920
Speaker 3: do anyone out there listening excuse me.

797
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 1: I was actually really good at I jump. Does that translate? Yeah?

798
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,600
Speaker 1: I read an article about that. Read about I think

799
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: prospective NFL draftees that concept around when they're young. They

800
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 1: haven't made it yet, they haven't signed any contracts, but

801
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,319
Speaker 1: they're picked out and people invest in them, so they

802
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: get cash upfront to try and get picked up, and

803
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,040
Speaker 1: then when they do, those people, as you said, are

804
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:28,840
Speaker 1: paid back their cash for their investment. Athlete high risk

805
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,360
Speaker 1: but potentially high reward if you're picking the right athlete

806
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: in the right league. But that spells trouble to me.

807
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,239
Speaker 1: That whole concept of these athletes getting cash up front

808
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:41,240
Speaker 1: before they're even signing a contract.

809
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I'm not going to be doing it. I

810
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,000
Speaker 2: mean I did download the apps and manyally because I

811
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: was so curious about it. You know, there was a

812
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 2: whole bunch of tanns players that you can and invest in,

813
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,959
Speaker 2: which is really interesting. But I mean, the whole point,

814
00:45:57,400 --> 00:45:59,920
Speaker 2: that's a whole new model right of direct to athlete investment.

815
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,440
Speaker 2: But the whole point of this conversation is to say

816
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 2: that sports become an asset, a financial asset. There are

817
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,239
Speaker 2: new types of owners and governance, and it's impacting governance

818
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: billion dollars that you know, sports such a big product

819
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,399
Speaker 2: right now, and there are consequences of that that we're

820
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:24,120
Speaker 2: already seeing in the present. As the same time, there's

821
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 2: a whole bunch of other models. It's just like in business,

822
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,520
Speaker 2: there's our typical private sector, and then you've also got

823
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,359
Speaker 2: really cool things happening like social enterprise, like you can

824
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,640
Speaker 2: make money and contribute, you know, back to social goods.

825
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,960
Speaker 2: So I think it's the fork in the road moment.

826
00:46:40,239 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 2: There are other ways of thinking about this, even if

827
00:46:42,760 --> 00:46:45,400
Speaker 2: some of them are a bit wacky, like just directly

828
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:50,040
Speaker 2: investing in your polevoke career. We don't necessarily have to

829
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 2: copy the template, or if we do, be more intentional

830
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 2: about the guardrails. Like the NSLW, I think what they've

831
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:02,719
Speaker 2: done is really cool. But I have usual provocation where

832
00:47:02,719 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 2: you get to play good and bad dinner guest at

833
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,239
Speaker 2: the end, because I don't like being the good and

834
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 2: bad dinner guest all the time. Where I have some

835
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 2: question for you, which is the so what now? What right?

836
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 2: So you've hurt all my heart crazy changes? Yeah, that's

837
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:23,040
Speaker 2: why I'm asking them. I look, I would personally, I

838
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,879
Speaker 2: think sport is the ultimate unifier. I also think it's

839
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 2: almost one of the last monocultures that brings communities together.

840
00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:34,920
Speaker 2: So there's not many other places where we can cross

841
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 2: with people that are not like us, and that has implications.

842
00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 2: But I'm saying that because I think what we decide

843
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:47,160
Speaker 2: now for sport really matters. I can't stop thinking about

844
00:47:47,200 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 2: this quote from Billie Eilish. She says, if you're a billionaire,

845
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,319
Speaker 2: why are you a billionaire? And I think it's such

846
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,160
Speaker 2: a just an elegant setting for my questions. So my

847
00:47:56,239 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 2: first so what provocation to you is say if or

848
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:05,279
Speaker 2: when the Matilda's become too expensive to watch live, but

849
00:48:05,360 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: the players are earning big cash. Did we win? You know?

850
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 2: What's enough in a time when sport is becoming too

851
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,719
Speaker 2: expensive for many people to play and participate.

852
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:20,120
Speaker 1: Oh, I think no. But then I'm going to come

853
00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: from this annoying like blue sky I thing of like

854
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: we want the athletes to be well earning big cash,

855
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,319
Speaker 1: but not stupid big cash. There has to be a

856
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: ceiling on what big cash you actually need to live

857
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:40,719
Speaker 1: a good life, you know, like the Ronaldo example. Who

858
00:48:40,719 --> 00:48:44,200
Speaker 1: would ever need that volume of money in an entire lifetime?

859
00:48:45,320 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 1: In a thousand lifetime, you know? Like, so I want

860
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 1: to see women athletes getting paid well, but I think

861
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:55,360
Speaker 1: there's got to be a ceiling on how ridiculous we

862
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:57,240
Speaker 1: get here. But I would like to see it coming

863
00:48:57,280 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: from a different source. I think really interesting, just that

864
00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:03,120
Speaker 1: Caitlin Clark example, that Indiana fever that you touched on,

865
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:05,719
Speaker 1: Like there's people out there that can't actually afford their

866
00:49:05,880 --> 00:49:10,360
Speaker 1: fees to play community sport. If we're then cutting it

867
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: off at that top tier where that level of inspiration

868
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,799
Speaker 1: comes from, where does it break down? Like it's just

869
00:49:18,400 --> 00:49:21,880
Speaker 1: I don't know, I think no. In a really weird roundabout.

870
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 3: No, I feel you. I understand where you are coming

871
00:49:26,400 --> 00:49:30,320
Speaker 3: from in regards to, you know, the capitalism of sport

872
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 3: and making it prohibitive for a normal person to go

873
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 3: and watch the Tillies, which is not the ideal outcome.

874
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:50,279
Speaker 3: My question in and around that would be what if

875
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,040
Speaker 3: the Matildas are the top level, and if the investment

876
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,880
Speaker 3: is so great in them and what they're doing, and

877
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,080
Speaker 3: they're earning great money, and their ticket becomes the hottest

878
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,480
Speaker 3: ticket in town and therefore becomes unaffordable. I think it's

879
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 3: really important that the level below and the level below that,

880
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:10,839
Speaker 3: and the level below that, that money trickles down and

881
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,359
Speaker 3: that therefore, say you can't afford a Tilly's ticket, you

882
00:50:14,360 --> 00:50:16,919
Speaker 3: can absolutely go and watch it Didney FC the weekend after,

883
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 3: and that money in that sport finds its way to

884
00:50:22,239 --> 00:50:25,440
Speaker 3: the next level and continues to do so, and we

885
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,080
Speaker 3: build that level underneath.

886
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:31,880
Speaker 2: So my second question then, is that sport used to

887
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:38,800
Speaker 2: be about community, Now it's increasingly becoming about capital and cash.

888
00:50:39,239 --> 00:50:42,480
Speaker 2: Is Women's sport the last chance to choose differently or

889
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,359
Speaker 2: is it already too late?

890
00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: No? I think it's not too late. I think when

891
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: I say that stuff out loud when I'm talking to you, Rhea,

892
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:53,279
Speaker 1: I'm like, but she knows things that I don't know yet,

893
00:50:53,440 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: so I hesitate. But no, I think it's not too late.

894
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:02,720
Speaker 1: I think the examples that we've touched on just around

895
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,439
Speaker 1: social enterprise, around clubs giving back to communities. I think

896
00:51:07,480 --> 00:51:09,960
Speaker 1: there's like even the Project B. I know we've touched

897
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: on it multiple times, so other the episode even Project B.

898
00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:15,239
Speaker 1: The fact that there is such heavy backlash because so

899
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:17,440
Speaker 1: many people that are fans are part of the community,

900
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:20,799
Speaker 1: are so invested in people doing things in the right way,

901
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: particularly in women's sport, I think community expectation hopefully continues

902
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:27,880
Speaker 1: to push everyone in the right direction.

903
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:33,720
Speaker 3: I agree. I think it's important that we don't lose

904
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 3: sight of challenging ourselves to find different ways to generate

905
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:48,080
Speaker 3: the revenue that the traditional men's sports generates, because it

906
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:51,640
Speaker 3: is an easier sell to just say, well, the men's

907
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:54,120
Speaker 3: sport are earning X, Y, and Z, why don't we

908
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,600
Speaker 3: just do that? So I think it's going to take

909
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,440
Speaker 3: some courage, but I definitely think there's an opportunity for

910
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:02,839
Speaker 3: us to do it in a way that's potentially more

911
00:52:02,840 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 3: sustainable and definitely more ethical, and absolutely more community focused,

912
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 3: which I think is super important because I feel like

913
00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:15,959
Speaker 3: when we speak about women's sports fans and how they

914
00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:21,319
Speaker 3: relate to the female athlete through a more authentic way,

915
00:52:21,480 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 3: then that's part of it. It's because there's that community connection.

916
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:25,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that.

917
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:27,880
Speaker 2: So it's kind of in the delivery in a way,

918
00:52:28,200 --> 00:52:32,280
Speaker 2: isn't it. I mean it's back to this idea of

919
00:52:32,360 --> 00:52:36,680
Speaker 2: borrowing some elements of that. Sure, but what do we

920
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:40,120
Speaker 2: defend in the sense of what really matters to us

921
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:44,800
Speaker 2: and how does that show up in everyday decisions? I think, Chloe,

922
00:52:44,840 --> 00:52:47,840
Speaker 2: these you know, I laugh because I don't know the

923
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:51,439
Speaker 2: answer to this. These are questions which legitimately ask us

924
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 2: to say what do we want? And part of what

925
00:52:55,920 --> 00:52:58,360
Speaker 2: I tend to encourage people to do is to say

926
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,520
Speaker 2: out loud, what do we want to see more stories

927
00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:05,080
Speaker 2: of and less stories of and not. We don't have

928
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:06,840
Speaker 2: to get the future precisely right, we don't have to

929
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,799
Speaker 2: answer the model and all the mechanics of what that is.

930
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,640
Speaker 2: We can just say more stories, less stories. Then we

931
00:53:12,719 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 2: come back to the present, say what is our adjacent possibility?

932
00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 2: What's possible for us? Right now with what we have

933
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:23,879
Speaker 2: around us, what's emerging, what new models, different ways of monetizing,

934
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 2: But how do we make sure that those decisions do

935
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:30,080
Speaker 2: align with the things we want more of and less of.

936
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:34,320
Speaker 2: So getting people to say it out loud gives us

937
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,560
Speaker 2: a shared direction of travel, and that's really important, important,

938
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:44,920
Speaker 2: because each decision has real consequences as an administrator, as

939
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:49,680
Speaker 2: a player, as a PA, as the sporting organization, as fans,

940
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:54,160
Speaker 2: as families. You know, boards are voting on these things.

941
00:53:54,200 --> 00:53:57,920
Speaker 2: Athletes are signing and that's that's consequential, Fans are choosing

942
00:53:58,040 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 2: where to spend their money and why. A question of

943
00:54:00,719 --> 00:54:02,880
Speaker 2: what is the future that we actually want to inhabit

944
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 2: for women's sport, what's changing and what does that actually

945
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,879
Speaker 2: mean for what we do come Monday, and not from

946
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 2: the big decision makers, like from everyone, from the clubs

947
00:54:15,640 --> 00:54:19,040
Speaker 2: that you're involved in, from you know, where you choose

948
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: to spend your money in sport, and that's also consequential.

949
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 2: So I don't know the answer. I'm suspicious of trickle

950
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: down economics, so we would have to be very intentional

951
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:29,799
Speaker 2: in the way we set up and make sure the

952
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,879
Speaker 2: money doesn't just flow into a.

953
00:54:33,840 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: Few people should put their money into t fapps black

954
00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,839
Speaker 1: Friday sales to continue investing a.

955
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:43,759
Speaker 2: Women's and your per.

956
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:44,480
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask on the app. We need to

957
00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 1: write this up because we've been going for a long time.

958
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,160
Speaker 1: But are there any apps for investing in retired athletes?

959
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:52,640
Speaker 1: Is that a thing? Or have I missed the boat there?

960
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:56,600
Speaker 2: No, but I know someone in a venture capital firm

961
00:54:56,800 --> 00:55:00,600
Speaker 2: now that can invest in people that set up those technologies.

962
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,960
Speaker 2: There's a bunch of Australian athletes that could get behind you.

963
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,840
Speaker 2: So anyone listening out there, I love it. How do

964
00:55:06,960 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: we get our returns?

965
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,839
Speaker 1: Okay question, I'll get back to you on that one.

966
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:15,400
Speaker 1: Posh Weather's lovely today, Rae. Thank you so much for

967
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 1: your time and again amazing preparation to pull this episode together,

968
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:23,360
Speaker 1: and we will see you all next time on the next.

969
00:55:23,560 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 2: Yes, see you and all of your signals. Send them

970
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:28,160
Speaker 2: our way, Yeah, send them our way.

971
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:28,719
Speaker 1: I like that.

972
00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 3: Hit us up cool?

973
00:55:30,880 --> 00:55:33,879
Speaker 1: So yeah, thanks so much for listening. If you got

974
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:36,520
Speaker 1: something out of this episode, I would absolutely love it

975
00:55:36,600 --> 00:55:38,480
Speaker 1: if you could send it on to one person who

976
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 1: you think might enjoy it. Otherwise, subscribe, give us a

977
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,719
Speaker 1: review and make sure you Follow us on Instagram at

978
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: the Female Athlete Project to stay up to date with

979
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 1: podcast episodes, merch drops, and of course, news and stories

980
00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 1: about epic female athletes.