1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: One four nine's Katie Wolf. Everyone's listening banks to Darwin Masda. 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: You are listening to Mix one O four nine's three sixteen. Now. 3 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: Plenty of messages coming through on the text line this morning, 4 00:00:10,520 --> 00:00:14,360 Speaker 1: keep those coming. There is one here that says, welcome back, Katie. 5 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,480 Speaker 1: A lot goes down hill whenever you're on holiday. The 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,440 Speaker 1: Chief Minister is clearly delusional. Maybe it's time for her 7 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: to get some better glasses and see what we all see. 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:26,639 Speaker 1: I'm so sick of it, spin, spin, spin, and the 9 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 1: crime is unacceptable, says that text. There are a lot 10 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: of them coming through, and somebody is saying, please get 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 1: Anthony Albanezi back to Alice Springs so we can see 12 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:41,400 Speaker 1: what's going on. But look, joining me in the studio 13 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: right now because we know the Northern Territory Police Association 14 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: so that they're concerned and frustrated with the double standards 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: being demonstrated by the Northern Territory Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker 16 00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:56,880 Speaker 1: and the Northern Territory Government in resolving an ongoing contract dispute. 17 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: And joining me in the studio right now is the 18 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,440 Speaker 1: acting Northern terror Tree Police Association President Lisa Bayless. Good morning, 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: to you, Lisa. Good morning, Katie, Thanks so much for 20 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 1: your time this morning. Now, Lisa, you've issued this statement 21 00:01:10,480 --> 00:01:14,160 Speaker 1: over the last day. I'm saying that are the associations 22 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:18,400 Speaker 1: obviously concerned and frustrated with these double standards. What exactly 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:19,039 Speaker 1: do you mean? 24 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: Well, basically, when it comes around our employment and conditions, 25 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 2: it's run by a police Administration Act. We have policy 26 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 2: and procedures around that. We don't come under the Fair 27 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,840 Speaker 2: Work Act. So in relation to the commissioner requesting for 28 00:01:33,880 --> 00:01:36,920 Speaker 2: an interstate retired judge to oversee this dispute that he's 29 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: having with his employer, the government and bringing in a 30 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:45,119 Speaker 2: high powered judge with sorry judge, lawyer Arthur moses, our 31 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:48,480 Speaker 2: members do not are not afforded the same right. So well, 32 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 2: the process of a dismissal, if a member believes have 33 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 2: been unfairly dismissed, they need to apply make application to 34 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,520 Speaker 2: have an appeal heard. So the process of that appeal 35 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:01,040 Speaker 2: it goes before the Tribune. It can take up to 36 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 2: two years for hearing date to be said. And obviously 37 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,080 Speaker 2: during that time our members are left waiting. They have 38 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 2: to seek employment elsewhere you know, one can survive and 39 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 2: pay the bills and look after their family, waiting around 40 00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: for a process which may take two years. And then 41 00:02:15,440 --> 00:02:17,440 Speaker 2: you've also got the issue is at the end of 42 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 2: that process, how it's actually going to It's going to 43 00:02:20,360 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: be in their favor or not. There's no independence, there's 44 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,160 Speaker 2: no transparency, and often members are left to the whole 45 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: process is soul destroying. It's actually not worth the process 46 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: of going through that. And we were contacted by our 47 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,519 Speaker 2: members who said this is completely unfair. We see this 48 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,799 Speaker 2: as an absolute double standard where the commissioner is able 49 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: to go through a fast and efficient and transparent process 50 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 2: and our members are not afforded the same right. 51 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,760 Speaker 1: So I guess you know, to put it really simply, 52 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 1: the commissioner is calling on a process that's not available 53 00:02:49,080 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 1: to everyday frontline members. 54 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:54,959 Speaker 2: Now that is correct. We know that the system that 55 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,519 Speaker 2: we said under the Police Administration Act is it's sort 56 00:02:57,520 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: of it's written in the seventies and we now we're 57 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 2: in twenty twenty three and the process that the whole 58 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:06,000 Speaker 2: employment law it's changed significantly over that period of time. 59 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:08,800 Speaker 2: But we've been left stuck in the nineteen seventies and 60 00:03:08,880 --> 00:03:11,960 Speaker 2: having to deal with that process. Our members deserve better. 61 00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: Our members expect better, and we know that this is 62 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: affecting my role. When they see one rule for one 63 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: and a different rule for the other, it's completely unfair. 64 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: Now, so does there need to be a review of 65 00:03:22,600 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 1: those processes and how quickly do you reckon that needs 66 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:26,200 Speaker 1: to get underway. 67 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 2: There's been a number of reviews done over the years. 68 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: Obviously. 69 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 2: One of the big issues that our members have is 70 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 2: around time frames. If there's if anything in relation to 71 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: our discipline situation, usually it's the process which does more 72 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,880 Speaker 2: harm than the actual and you know, the complaint or 73 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:46,800 Speaker 2: the outcomes, it's the length of time that it takes. 74 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 2: It's the emotional toll that takes on the member. And 75 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 2: we've always said it's around those time frames. And I 76 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,520 Speaker 2: know there was a review done fairly recently and the 77 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,960 Speaker 2: recommendations was to remove any timeframes, which is the complete 78 00:03:58,960 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 2: opposite of what our members expect. And again, in a 79 00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,720 Speaker 2: modern workplace, we should be having, you know, expectations of 80 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 2: relevant timeframes when meetings are held, mediation is done, and 81 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: even outcomes and tribunals that are that are set to meet. 82 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: Lisa stepping away from that and stepping back to the 83 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: commissioner's situation, What needs to happen here and what kind 84 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: of you know, what what are members saying to you 85 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: in relation to what's happening with the police commissioner and 86 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: that uncertainty. 87 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: At this point, it's incredibly frustrating that the police officers 88 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 2: go to work every single day to do a job, 89 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 2: to serve the community, to protect the community, and to 90 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,359 Speaker 2: you know, to fight crime and keep us safe, and 91 00:04:42,400 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 2: it's very frustrating when this is constantly in the media. 92 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 2: It's talking about, you know, the position of the police commissioner, 93 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 2: what's going to happen to him. We don't need to 94 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 2: be hearing about that. A decision needs to be made 95 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 2: by government. We have expectations that we have certainty around 96 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,359 Speaker 2: who is our actual commissioner of police. We would like 97 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: to see that a decision has made soon. We just 98 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:06,120 Speaker 2: see the situation is untenable the way it's currently ongoing. 99 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: And I know that members obviously made it very clear 100 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: how they felt towards the end of last year last August, 101 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: so seventy nine point six almost eighty percent of those 102 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: officers that were surveyed said that they didn't have confidence 103 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:25,359 Speaker 1: in Jamie Chalker. I mean, do offices want him gone? 104 00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:31,040 Speaker 2: Well, from that survey, that was the request. They wanted 105 00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 2: to have a vote of no confidence. Because that's what 106 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,840 Speaker 2: the way our association has run. It's the members. They 107 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:41,560 Speaker 2: request certain things through their meetings. One was they wanted 108 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:43,360 Speaker 2: to have a vote of no confidence. It's come through 109 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: to the Police Association Executive. We made a decision that 110 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,880 Speaker 2: we'd had a number of stations requesting that, so we 111 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: put it to vote and obviously the outcome of that 112 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: vote was quite overwhelming that the members didn't have confidence 113 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 2: in the Police Commissioner. All those results were provided to 114 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: the government and you know here we are currently now 115 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:06,680 Speaker 2: where we've got reports in the media saying that clearly 116 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 2: the government is meant to have no confidence in the commissioner. 117 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,400 Speaker 2: And if that's true, I think it's important for them 118 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: to say either way and let's see an outcome on 119 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 2: what's actually happening. 120 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:21,719 Speaker 1: Lisa, Why does this need to get sorted quickly? You know, 121 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,960 Speaker 1: from from the rank and file perspective, Why does it 122 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 1: just need to get sorted out nice and fast. 123 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,520 Speaker 2: I think certainty around leadership is really important. It does 124 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: affect the members of how they approach their job. About 125 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,479 Speaker 2: who they go to for final decisions. And I think 126 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 2: having you know, Acting Commissioner Murphy in the chair is 127 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:45,359 Speaker 2: it does bring some confidence to our members. We know 128 00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 2: that he's done this job before, and we know that 129 00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: there has been a bit of a turnaround recently with 130 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:55,279 Speaker 2: I suppose an attitude in the workplace. So it'll be 131 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:58,159 Speaker 2: interesting to see what the final decision is. But there 132 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 2: is that problem where you know, members are contacting us 133 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 2: saying what is going on, and it is it's embarrassing. 134 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:07,880 Speaker 2: I think for the government to let it get to 135 00:07:07,960 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 2: this situation, it should not be where we've got the 136 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,880 Speaker 2: commissioner of the Norman Territory Police Force where there's uncertainty 137 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: about his future, is uncertainly about the police force. Who's 138 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 2: leading the police force make a decision now. 139 00:07:20,720 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 1: I know that previously on the show, the Chief Minister 140 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,480 Speaker 1: had said that there'd been hundreds of police officers on 141 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 1: leave at any one time. I know that other points 142 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: said sort of been this number of four hundred bandied around. 143 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: I'd spoken to Paul mcewe about it last week. He 144 00:07:36,440 --> 00:07:39,200 Speaker 1: had said that, you know, it wasn't that high, but 145 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: do we still have a large number of police officers 146 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 1: who are on leave for various reasons at the moment, 147 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:48,560 Speaker 1: and do you think that the situation with leadership would 148 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: be having an impact in any. 149 00:07:49,720 --> 00:07:53,680 Speaker 2: Way here, Look, I'm probably not. We've got people who 150 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: if they're on long term sick leave, there's usually a 151 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: variety of reasons for that. They have health problems, they 152 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 2: may they may have been injured in the workplace. We've 153 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,800 Speaker 2: also got people who take their normal recreation leave, long 154 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 2: service leave, cares leave. There's a variety of reasons. And 155 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:13,880 Speaker 2: of a police force of around sixteen hundred of members, 156 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 2: you're always going to have somebody who's on leave at 157 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: any given time. People also of other requirements with study 158 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 2: and those sorts of commitments that you know that they 159 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 2: need to be released for. We often hear that there's 160 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:29,960 Speaker 2: a huge amount of sick leave within the police force. 161 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 2: You've got to remember that we're a twenty four to 162 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: seven agency and we work in a fairly physical and 163 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,320 Speaker 2: emotional workplace. We're confronted with quite traumatic events and it 164 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: does have an impact on a member's overall health. So 165 00:08:42,520 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 2: there is an expectation that we probably will have higher 166 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 2: levels of sick leave. Now. Knowing that and knowing that 167 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,640 Speaker 2: that's going to be an ongoing issue. Then when we 168 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,880 Speaker 2: have our attrition rate that needs to include you know, 169 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,640 Speaker 2: needs to be built in that factor to be able 170 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 2: to still service the community when we have people on leave. 171 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:01,720 Speaker 2: There's an next dictation from people when they ring the 172 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,959 Speaker 2: police that the police will answer the phone, the police 173 00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: will turn up at their doorstep, and the police will 174 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 2: help them. 175 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: Yes, spot on. And I do want to ask as well. 176 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: We've got a message from a listener a little bit 177 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,520 Speaker 1: earlier this morning questioning are there any police stations that 178 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:18,400 Speaker 1: are opened after four pm that the public can sort 179 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: of go into to see police, you know, to be 180 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,680 Speaker 1: able to go in and report things to the police. Lisa, 181 00:09:24,679 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: do you know do you have any insight at this 182 00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:29,199 Speaker 1: point whether you know whether the police stations are opened 183 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:30,400 Speaker 1: after that time. 184 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,079 Speaker 2: The opening hours. I'm actually unsure. I know that we 185 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:39,839 Speaker 2: have Palmerston's Police station which they do firearms registration as well, 186 00:09:39,840 --> 00:09:41,920 Speaker 2: and I'm not sure they're opening ours. I know that 187 00:09:41,960 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: we often do have an evening service where but it 188 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:47,040 Speaker 2: doesn't stay open twenty four to seven. There's usually no 189 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 2: requirement for a police station to be open twenty four 190 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,840 Speaker 2: to seven because we do have police are available to 191 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: attend other locations, and I think that's come out of 192 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,800 Speaker 2: a needs basis. When we've had police stations open, having 193 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:02,160 Speaker 2: somebody sit there all when there's nobody turns up for assistance, 194 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: it's kind of not really necessary. So it's open for 195 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 2: a reason, but it is disappointing. I don't know which 196 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,320 Speaker 2: police station they're referring to. Some stations are only are 197 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 2: open for a day shift, but some I open longer 198 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: for the evening shift hours. Some positive messages this morning 199 00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:22,560 Speaker 2: as well about what's been seen as whether it is 200 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,320 Speaker 2: or not increase police out and about over the course 201 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 2: of the weekend for Easter, plenty of police outsort of 202 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: doing patrols and also booze buses back out again, is 203 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:35,600 Speaker 2: what we've been told by some listeners. So some positive 204 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:37,760 Speaker 2: feedback there from listeners that there does seem to be 205 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:40,560 Speaker 2: more out on the ground and I think, you know, 206 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 2: people are really positive about the work that Northern Territory 207 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 2: Police do. They know that they do a really tough job, 208 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 2: but they want that visibility as well. Yeah, Look, it 209 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:52,560 Speaker 2: is interesting Katie, because police that we join the job 210 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 2: because we want to serve the community. We want to 211 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 2: be out and about. We want to you know, be 212 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,000 Speaker 2: tackling and fighting crime. And it is it's what we're good, 213 00:11:00,240 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 2: it's what we when we put into motion, that's exactly 214 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:04,760 Speaker 2: what we will get around to doing. And it is 215 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 2: it's good to hear that the community sees the good 216 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 2: work that you know, men and women of the norm 217 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:11,680 Speaker 2: the Churchy Police Force are doing. It is good good 218 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 2: feedback to hear that. 219 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:15,760 Speaker 1: So yeah, well, Lisa Baylis, good to catch up with 220 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: you this morning, Thanks so much for your time, Acting 221 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:19,840 Speaker 1: Police Association President. 222 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you Katie. 223 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: It is just twenty minutes away from eleven eight nine 224 00:11:24,960 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 1: four one one O four nine if you'd like to 225 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: call through.