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Speaker 1: This is the Happy Families podcast today and thanks for

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Speaker 1: joining us today. Every night sometimes feels like it's a meltdown,

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Speaker 1: doesn't it. Parenting through explosive evenings? What do you do

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Speaker 1: when bedtime becomes emotional and even physical warfare. All of

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Speaker 1: the strategies aren't working. You're trying so hard to keep calm,

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Speaker 1: get the kids settled, and just turn off the lights

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Speaker 1: at a reasonable hour so that you can get some

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Speaker 1: shut eye yourself or just some adult time. Today on

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Speaker 1: the pod, we explore what to do when meltdowns are happening,

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Speaker 1: when evenings are explosive, when the fireworks are going off

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Speaker 1: because the lights are down and kids don't want to

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Speaker 1: go to sleep. That's coming up next. Stay with us. Gooday,

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Happy Family's podcast, Real Pairing Solutions every

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Speaker 1: single Day. This is Australia's most downloaded paring podcast. We

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Speaker 1: adjusted in Clyde corson Kylie. Over the years with our

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Speaker 1: six kids, we have been through this so many times.

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Speaker 1: Explosive evenings, emotional warfare at night and parents just feeling completely,

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Speaker 1: utterly and in every way worn down.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking about so many nights right now and the

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Speaker 2: ones that have been The most challenging have been the

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Speaker 2: ones where I have nothing left in the tank, yep,

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Speaker 2: and I'm just wanting them to actually go through the

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Speaker 2: nighttime routine without me.

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Speaker 1: So we're pretty lucky. It's been a number of years

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Speaker 1: now since we've really had to battle this sort of stuff,

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Speaker 1: and we're more likely to be kept up not by

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Speaker 1: kids who are having big emotional tantrums about not wanting

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Speaker 1: to go to bed, but rather kids who have come

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Speaker 1: home late because they have been out having great time

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Speaker 1: and now they want to tell us all about their

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Speaker 1: awesome night. And we're exhausted at the other end of

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Speaker 1: the spectrum because of that. But as I reflect on

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Speaker 1: those nights, oh my goodness, laying on the floor with

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Speaker 1: my arm up through a cot, trying to tap that

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Speaker 1: baby off to sleep, falling asleep in somebody else's bed,

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Speaker 1: our children, of course, while they wander off and get

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Speaker 1: into your bed, because I've honestly before they did. When

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Speaker 1: you're going through it, it feels like it's never going to end.

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Speaker 1: I guess the main point of what I'm sharing here

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Speaker 1: is it does. It does because it's been years since

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Speaker 1: we've had to battle it. But today we wanted to

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Speaker 1: share three ideas that are going to really really move

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Speaker 1: the needle. Before I'd even made any notes, I said

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Speaker 1: to you, what do you think are the best answers here?

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Speaker 1: And you rattled off three things that were everything that

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Speaker 1: I would have written down. So you're going to take

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Speaker 1: the lead on this and guide us through these three

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Speaker 1: things when things are not working, when everything's falling apart.

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Speaker 1: What's the first thing that kids need to make sure

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Speaker 1: that nights are not explosive?

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Speaker 2: Routine? They need to have predictability in their evening.

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Speaker 1: Consistency is key. It helps kids to understand the structure

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Speaker 1: of the night and to do well. I know some

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Speaker 1: people right now are just they've just for and slapped themselves,

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Speaker 1: like we know, we've tried. It's not working. So that's

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Speaker 1: only one of three things. But let's talk about routine

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Speaker 1: for a sec handful of things to really help kids

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Speaker 1: to be calm. If you were to list them as

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Speaker 1: a general rule, what would they be.

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Speaker 2: Dimming the lights towards the end of the evening is

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Speaker 2: a really clear sign to kids that things are starting

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Speaker 2: to slow down.

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Speaker 1: And you can get smart globes now link them into

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Speaker 1: the Wi Fi, have it all set up so it's

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Speaker 1: on a timer and the lights just start to dim.

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Speaker 1: It's it's not me saying you've got to go to bed, kids,

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Speaker 1: it's the house. Look, the house is getting sleepy. We

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Speaker 1: did a podcast episode earlier in the year with a

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Speaker 1: couple of people who are doing exactly that in their

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Speaker 1: home and turning their home into a completely smart home.

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Speaker 1: What a great idea, works a treat. So you've got

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Speaker 1: light dimming, which just lowers the mood, lowers the energy,

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Speaker 1: lowers the alertness.

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Speaker 2: Shutting down screens at least.

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Speaker 1: Now before bed, please, Like, I know that there are

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Speaker 1: so many people who will defend my kids like to

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Speaker 1: play a game, or they like to watch a movie

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Speaker 1: or watch their favorite show, or they like to listen

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Speaker 1: to an audiobook on the iPad. We're not going to

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Speaker 1: convince you. If you're absolutely convinced that this is the

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Speaker 1: right thing, then we're not going to be able to

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Speaker 1: convince you otherwise. But there is no research to support this.

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Speaker 1: All of the research points in the other direction, and

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Speaker 1: certainly our experience as well would suggest that keep screens

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Speaker 1: out of their hands for at least an hour before bed.

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Speaker 2: And nothing beats storytime. It's the one time where you

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Speaker 2: get to just slow things down. You actually have that

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Speaker 2: kind of physical touch. You're in each other's arms and

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Speaker 2: you kind of it's coregulation, right, Yeah, you're calm, and

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Speaker 2: you calm them and you actually lull them into a

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Speaker 2: sense of security, safety, but sleep.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to add a couple of other things

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Speaker 1: to routine. First off, having dinner ideally as a family

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Speaker 1: around the table around about the same time every night.

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Speaker 1: Then it's straight into the bath or the shower, whatever

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Speaker 1: it is that you do in your home. And then

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Speaker 1: the lights are down low, everyone's calming down, screens are off,

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Speaker 1: and you're really moving into that story time, cuddles, sing

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Speaker 1: a song together, and then you just i mean ideally

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Speaker 1: hold them as they go to sleep, right, and they

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Speaker 1: can drift off in your arms. How nice is that?

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Speaker 2: It was actually cute. I was talking to our eldest daughter, Chanel,

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Speaker 2: and she has a two year old and they're really

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Speaker 2: strict on the TV time that she watched. She doesn't

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Speaker 2: watch it very often at all, But she woke up

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Speaker 2: the other morning and her dad had gotten up super

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Speaker 2: early so he could watch some sports on TV. And

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Speaker 2: she looked at him and she said, no TV Daddy

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Speaker 2: love no TV, turn it off, brilliant. That's so good.

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Speaker 1: That's so good. Routine helps kids feel safe, predictable, everything's consistent.

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Speaker 1: It gives them structure. They feel like they can be competent.

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Speaker 1: That's our first of our three pillars after the break

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Speaker 1: pillars number two and three. When nighttime meltdowns are getting

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Speaker 1: too much and you're ready to crack and the kids

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Speaker 1: just won't go to sleep, stay with us. We're back.

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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast pill too, for how to

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Speaker 1: keep things from just blowing up and being explosive. Kylie,

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Speaker 1: you said we need a calm environment. A calm environment.

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Speaker 1: We sort of touched on that a little bit, with

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Speaker 1: the idea that we're going to have an effective and

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Speaker 1: solid structure, that there's going to be that real sense

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Speaker 1: of routine. But the calm environment's about more than just

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Speaker 1: having a routine. Like you can have music blaring, you

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Speaker 1: can have a TV going, you can have all the

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Speaker 1: lights on, or rambunctious kids that are older that can

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Speaker 1: get in the way of things. So let's walk through

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Speaker 1: the calm environment fairly briefly.

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Speaker 2: So when we had children in high school, but we

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Speaker 2: still had little children, I actually got to the point

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Speaker 2: where I had to tell my high school children that

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Speaker 2: they needed to go to their rooms and act as

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Speaker 2: though it was bedtime, even though they weren't going to

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Speaker 2: be going to sleep. So it created a sense that

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Speaker 2: everybody was doing the same thing. Firstly, and it created

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Speaker 2: that calm, RESTful environment because there was there was nothing

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Speaker 2: else going on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, nobody goes to sleep when things are hyped.

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Speaker 2: That's really nobody wants to miss out. Fomo's real, and

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Speaker 2: especially when you're three.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was like seven or eight and

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Speaker 1: my parents would put me to bed, but they had

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Speaker 1: friends over for a dinner party, or they were entertaining,

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Speaker 1: and I'd sneak out of my room and I'd crawl

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Speaker 1: to the corner. I'd stick my head around the corner

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Speaker 1: of the wall so that i could watch and listen

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Speaker 1: and hear what all the grown ups were doing in

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Speaker 1: the living room.

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Speaker 2: Well, you don't even need to have people over, just

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Speaker 2: having the TV on and you know, kids go to bed,

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Speaker 2: Mum and dad are going to watch a movie or something.

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Speaker 1: Right, and the kids just feel like they're missing out total.

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Speaker 1: So the calm environment is really a We've got this

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Speaker 1: routine in structure. Oh you know what, I forgot to

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Speaker 1: mention for routine and structure. Sorry I'm interrupting myself here.

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Speaker 1: Going to bed at the same time every night really matters.

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Speaker 1: Research shows within thirty minutes of that bedtime fifteen minutes

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Speaker 1: either side has a huge impact on sleep quality and

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Speaker 1: sleep duration. But back to what we were saying, making

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Speaker 1: that environment feel like it is bedtime, it moves the needle.

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Speaker 1: It makes for such an important change in children's psychology

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Speaker 1: at bedtime.

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Speaker 2: And don't underestimate the power of music in your routine

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Speaker 2: that can create the calm that you want. When our

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Speaker 2: kids were really young, we actually had specific songs that

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Speaker 2: we would sing at specific times in their routine. One

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Speaker 2: of them was to go and wake them up in

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Speaker 2: the morning, right, Another one was to calm them down,

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Speaker 2: and another one was to bring them together for you know,

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Speaker 2: kind of devotional running devotion.

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Speaker 1: And so those songs. If you're going to say, well,

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Speaker 1: music does work, please remember when we're looking for instrumental stuff,

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Speaker 1: stuff that doesn't have lyrics, or that isn't a popular

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Speaker 1: song that's just had the lyrics removed because there's an

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Speaker 1: instrumental version. We're talking about the stuff that your mum

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Speaker 1: would listen to if she goes in for a massage,

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Speaker 1: or maybe you would listen to it as well, that

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Speaker 1: really soft sort of stuff that sets that coming environment.

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Speaker 1: The tempo is right, the sounds are right, and it

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Speaker 1: helps kids to feel like they are getting sleepy. So

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Speaker 1: there's the calm vice, there's the solid structure and routine,

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Speaker 1: and the last thing.

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Speaker 2: They need our presence.

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Speaker 1: When you said calm environment and presence, I sort of argued, well,

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Speaker 1: it's really the same thing, right. If you're calm, you're

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Speaker 1: a calm, steady presence in their situation. And you push

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Speaker 1: back on that, and I think your pushbacks are really

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Speaker 1: important here.

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Speaker 2: I can be present, and we can have a calm

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Speaker 2: environment and have no desire to be part of the routine.

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Speaker 2: Like when I am done, I just I want to

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Speaker 2: go lie on my bed, and I'm hoping that everyone's

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Speaker 2: going to want to do the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: I'm not screaming, I'm not yelling. I'm not telling them

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Speaker 2: what to do. But you've tapped out, but I am

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Speaker 2: totally tapped out.

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Speaker 1: Right, And then what we're suggesting is let's tap in.

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Speaker 2: We have to. We have to because more times than not,

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Speaker 2: What they're actually craving is our time.

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Speaker 1: Our connection.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they want that connection desperately, and especially when they're young,

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Speaker 2: and so they will create whatever distractions they need to

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Speaker 2: just be with us for a little bit longer.

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Speaker 1: So steady presence means connecting, seeing, hearing, valuing, being with

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Speaker 1: To go back to the original topic of the day,

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Speaker 1: if you've got a child who is having mega meltdowns,

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Speaker 1: if you've got every night just thinking I cannot get

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Speaker 1: this kid to bed, and we get this question a

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Speaker 1: lot via the podcast channel. First of all, they will

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Speaker 1: grow out of it. That's a guarantee. It will sort

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Speaker 1: itself out. But in the meantime, by working on that

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Speaker 1: structure and developing it with them, getting the routine right

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Speaker 1: with their input number one. Number two, by making sure

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Speaker 1: that the environment is as calm as possible while being

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Speaker 1: reasonable about it. But the more fastid is you can

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Speaker 1: be here, the better. And number three, by being a

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Speaker 1: steady presence. This will move the needle in the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of cases and in those cases where it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: And we've been there with our kids.

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Speaker 2: I remember when we used to put our foot down

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Speaker 2: and go, Okay, enough is enough. Yeah, they're seven or

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Speaker 2: eight they can put themselves to bed, and we would

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Speaker 2: go through we of just crazy town because they wouldn't

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Speaker 2: do it. And finally you and I would look at

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Speaker 2: each other and go, why are we doing this?

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Speaker 1: And looking back at it now with the wisdom and

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Speaker 1: hindsight of the years that we've been through with six

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Speaker 1: of our kids. If I was to be a new

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Speaker 1: parent again or a parent of a seven or a

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Speaker 1: twelve year old who's going through this and it's really hard,

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Speaker 1: I would literally just give you a hug and tell

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Speaker 1: you I love you, and then I'd walk out the

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Speaker 1: door and I'm just kidding, And then I would walk

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Speaker 1: out the bedroom door and go and hug them and

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Speaker 1: sleep in bed with them, or I would send them

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Speaker 1: into the big bed with you, and I would sleep

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Speaker 1: in their bed, like I don't care where you're sleeping,

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Speaker 1: so long as you feel safe and secure and know

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Speaker 1: that you're loved. And I don't care where I'm sleeping.

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Speaker 1: So long as you feel safe and secure and know

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Speaker 1: that you're loved. That's the game. That's all we're going for.

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Speaker 1: And if it means that I'm sleeping on the floor

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Speaker 1: with my hand up tapping you off to sleep, or

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Speaker 1: if it means that we're in different bedrooms because you

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Speaker 1: need to be with this person or that person to

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Speaker 1: feel safe and secure, whether it's mum or dad, or

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Speaker 1: your sister or your brother or whatever, then I'll do

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Speaker 1: whatever it takes, because that sleep, getting that sleep routine down,

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Speaker 1: it's so essential for everybody's health. And we've done that

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Speaker 1: time and time again. Like by the time we got

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Speaker 1: to the end of it, we were pretty good at it,

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Speaker 1: and we just realized, once we're asleep, it doesn't really

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Speaker 1: matter where we are or who are sleeping next to.

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Speaker 1: We're asleep, and all the matters is getting that sleep.

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Speaker 2: I was babysitting our two year old granddaughter the other

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Speaker 2: day and as my daughter walked out the door to

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Speaker 2: go to work, she looked at me and she said,

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Speaker 2: good luck trying to put it asleep. And I lay

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Speaker 2: in bed with her and she was just bouncing, and

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Speaker 2: she decided to cover me with all the pillows and

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Speaker 2: blankets and put me to sleep. And I was pretty tired.

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Speaker 2: I could have fallen asleep, and everything just went quiet,

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Speaker 2: and I put my head up and she poked her

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Speaker 2: head up. She got off the bed, she poked her

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Speaker 2: head up saw me and then gave me the biggest

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Speaker 2: grin and ran out the door. She was not having

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Speaker 2: anything with bedtime, but I just persisted. I went and

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Speaker 2: got I gave her a big cuddle. We've read some stories,

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Speaker 2: and then just slowly she just started to kind of

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Speaker 2: lean into me a little bit more, a little bit more.

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Speaker 2: That's so beautiful, and she went to sleep.

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Speaker 1: Like, Yeah, you get better at it as you get older.

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Speaker 2: But not only that, like being at this end of parenting,

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Speaker 2: you recognize how short the time is. When you're living it,

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Speaker 2: it feels like it is never going to end. And

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Speaker 2: there are still nights where we are exhausted, like we've

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Speaker 2: got nothing left in the tank to give, and yet

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Speaker 2: somehow we managed to find out just a little bit extra,

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Speaker 2: to give that extra hug, or to listen to a

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Speaker 2: monologue for a little bit too long. Yeah, because these people,

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Speaker 2: these kids, they amounted more than anything else in our lives.

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Speaker 1: Love it. Thanks for your input on that one, Kylie.

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Speaker 1: I am glad that you put the one together for us.

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Speaker 1: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruland from

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Speaker 1: Bridge Media. Mimhammonds provides research, admin and other support. If

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Speaker 1: you think the ideas in this podcast could be helpful.

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Speaker 1: Make sure you share them with somebody who you know

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Speaker 1: that is struggling. Also, my book What Your Child Needs

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Speaker 1: From You will help you through these kinds of issues.

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Speaker 1: Check that wherever you buy books, and you can find

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Speaker 1: that book and other resources at happy families dot com

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Speaker 1: dot au