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Speaker 1: As I mentioned explosive claims made by former Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: Police Constable Zachary Rolf when taking the stand at the

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Speaker 1: coronial inquest into the death of Kumanjai Walker yesterday. Mister

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Speaker 1: Rolf he became the last witness to take the stand,

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Speaker 1: telling the court that racist language was commonplace throughout the

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Speaker 1: Northern Territory Police Force. He said, I haven't seen a

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Speaker 1: lot of racist behavior, but racist language was normalized in

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Speaker 1: the NT Police Force. In the muster room, I could

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Speaker 1: hear something racist every day. Racist language is used everywhere

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Speaker 1: his claims. Now joining me in the studio is the

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Speaker 1: opposition leader leafanochiiro Good morning to you, Leah.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Katie, and to your wonderful listeners.

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Speaker 1: Now, Leah, these claims are horrible. Mister Rolf has told

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Speaker 1: the court basically, the whole Alice Springs Police Station would

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Speaker 1: refer to a so called Aboriginal only section of an

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Speaker 1: Alice Springs pub as the animal Bar because it's an

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal only bar. He alleged, the Territory Response Group, a

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Speaker 1: tactical policing unit within the force, held an annual party

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Speaker 1: were it issued, and I'm not going to say the

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Speaker 1: word a See of the Year award to members. He

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Speaker 1: reckons the culture starts at the head Leah, I'm sure

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Speaker 1: you've heard the claims made. What was your reaction to

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Speaker 1: those comments that Zachary Rolf made yesterday.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's really important that during a coronial

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Speaker 3: process that's still on foot, that politicians don't act as

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Speaker 3: public commentators. Now much has been said during this coronial

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Speaker 3: process over a very very long time, and what a

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Speaker 3: coronial does is then the coroner takes all of that

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Speaker 3: information and makes recommendations about how things can be done

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Speaker 3: differently going forward. So we will look to those recommendations,

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Speaker 3: of course, but I certainly won't be providing the sort

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Speaker 3: of ongoing public commentary.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, my understanding and we are waiting for this confirmation.

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Speaker 1: Matt Cunningham's going to join us shortly. But my understanding

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Speaker 1: is that you know, these comments or what he said

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Speaker 1: yesterday has now been referred to the Aykak Commissioner.

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Speaker 4: So we'll get to the bob of that.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, do you think that there is systemic

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Speaker 1: racism within the Northern Territory Police Force.

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Speaker 3: Look, that's certainly not my experience when I speak to police,

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Speaker 3: and we've got hard working police right across the territory

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Speaker 3: who are undoubtedly, you know, feeling this. So it's really important,

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Speaker 3: of course that the coroner undertake what she's got to

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Speaker 3: do and that's a proper process and we won't get

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Speaker 3: involved in that. But you know, certainly, I think Territorians

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Speaker 3: respect our police, and police have respect for Territorians and

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Speaker 3: they have a difficult job and work hard. And you know,

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Speaker 3: these claims have been made. My understanding is they're being

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Speaker 3: investigated and that's appropriate.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that people making comments like this should

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Speaker 1: keep their jobs?

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm not going to go into it, Katie.

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Speaker 3: These things will all be investigated appropriately and it's certainly

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Speaker 3: not a member of Parliament's job to carsair judgment.

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Speaker 1: If you do become the Chief Minister though in August,

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Speaker 1: I mean, how are you going to bring the whole

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Speaker 1: community together if this does indeed force a real witch.

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Speaker 3: I don't think there is a wedge between Territorians and

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Speaker 3: our police. I mean, our focus has always been to

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Speaker 3: make sure we have a strong police force. We know

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Speaker 3: the police review is currently on foot. That's something Katie,

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Speaker 3: that the CLP has called for four years. So we're

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Speaker 3: very much looking forward to seeing what recommendations are made

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Speaker 3: in that so that we can strengthen our force. Of course,

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Speaker 3: our focuses on supporting our police with the laws they

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Speaker 3: need to be able to keep our community safe. We're

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Speaker 3: very focused on protecting them from people who assault police

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Speaker 3: through minimum mandatory sentencing and of course giving police the

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Speaker 3: correct pp to protect themselves from people.

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Speaker 2: Who spit at them.

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Speaker 3: So we're very focused on making sure we drive down

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Speaker 3: high rates of crime, support our police to be able

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Speaker 3: to protect our community and that's going to lead to

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Speaker 3: us safer and stronger territory.

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Speaker 4: And look, there is.

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Speaker 1: No doubt they've got a massive job on their hands,

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Speaker 1: and I do want to talk about the issue of crime.

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Speaker 1: Last week we reported on a number of horrible incidents

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Speaker 1: in central Australia and up here in Darwin, so youth

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Speaker 1: as young as eleven were involved in ambushing a person

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Speaker 1: with a machete and stealing a car in the Northern Suburbs.

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Speaker 1: People were horrified to learn that some of these alleged

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Speaker 1: defenders were bailed.

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Speaker 4: Now police had told.

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Speaker 1: Us that they work within the legislative framework that they have.

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Speaker 4: Does that framework.

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Speaker 3: Need to change, of course it does Katie, and I

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Speaker 3: think the Assistant Commissioner said it very very well. Our

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Speaker 3: police and our courts are constrained by the laws that

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Speaker 3: the Parliament makes, and that's so important for your listeners

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Speaker 3: to understand. You know, the evil lawl government is trying

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Speaker 3: to make everything sound like it's too hard or everything

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Speaker 3: someone else's fault.

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Speaker 2: The Parliament is what makes the law.

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Speaker 3: The people put there are supposed to reflect and represent

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Speaker 3: the sentiment of the community, which means our laws should

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Speaker 3: meet community expectation. And when our police don't have the

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Speaker 3: right powers they need to keep people safe, and the

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Speaker 3: courts don't have adequate, adequate constraints to work within, then

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Speaker 3: you have this free fall of crime that we're seeing

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Speaker 3: right now. So you know, we don't accept these excuses

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Speaker 3: from Labor. I thought the Chief Minister yesterday did a

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Speaker 3: woeful job on your show, because the last thing we

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Speaker 3: need is another review and we know that it was

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Speaker 3: just last year, Kate. I mean, this is the ridiculous

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Speaker 3: thing about Labor. Just last year they did a Bower

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Speaker 3: review and only yesterday we had Ivlola come on your

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Speaker 3: show and say, oh, well we're reviewing you Justice.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we need to look at bail for you.

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Speaker 3: It's like, wasn't that what you did last year and

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Speaker 3: failed to implement. I mean that the time for talk

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Speaker 3: is over. We need action in the Parliament immediately, Leah, how.

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Speaker 4: Do we do that right?

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Speaker 1: So at the moment, as you've said, the community's expectations

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Speaker 1: are that you know that if kids hold up somebody

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Speaker 1: with a machete, that there is some kind of repercussion.

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Speaker 1: A lot of people were really quite surprised last week

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Speaker 1: to learn that you know that those children were bailed immediately,

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Speaker 1: and nobody is suggesting that you know they're chucked in

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Speaker 1: jail and that's it. That's the end of nobody's suggesting that.

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Speaker 1: I want to make that really clear. But where where

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Speaker 1: is this breaking down? And what would you do differently?

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Speaker 3: So it's not it is totally broken because Labor refuse

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Speaker 3: to deal with the issue. So our police are not

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Speaker 3: allowed to deal with people under the age of twelve.

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Speaker 3: They've been totally hamstrung by Labor on this and our

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Speaker 3: courts are in a similar position. This can be changed.

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Speaker 3: We could walk into Parliament tomorrow if we wanted to

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Speaker 3: kat and fix this. And that's the ridiculous, sad state

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Speaker 3: that Labor are in is they've rejected the CLP trying

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Speaker 3: to fix this so many times and now their answer

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Speaker 3: is a review. So, for example, the CLP's policy is

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Speaker 3: to lower the age of criminal responsibility to ten. That

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Speaker 3: means ten year olds who committed crime can be arrested,

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Speaker 3: they can be brought before the courts and sentenced to

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Speaker 3: programs that are going to divert the course of their life.

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Speaker 3: It means we can also ensure that parents are held

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Speaker 3: responsible for their young people. We can chang bail, which

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Speaker 3: the COLP has been rejected by Labor in the parliament.

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Speaker 4: Would you change the bail us through that? Yep.

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Speaker 3: So what we'd like to see with bail and what

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Speaker 3: we would do, We actually have law already prepared on

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Speaker 3: This is ready to go, Katie. If if we were

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Speaker 3: to win in August, we could walk into that next

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Speaker 3: Parliament and change the law.

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Speaker 2: The work is done.

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Speaker 3: So our position on bail is that any serious violent

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Speaker 3: offender starts on the back foot and so that means

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Speaker 3: they have a what's called a presumption against bail, or

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Speaker 3: it means they start with a position of no bail. Currently,

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Speaker 3: many offenders are starting in at getting to court and

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Speaker 3: the position is that they should be free, and our

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Speaker 3: police and our prosecutors then have to stand there and

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Speaker 3: argue with the judge and say no, no, we shouldn't

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Speaker 3: let them go.

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Speaker 2: There is to.

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Speaker 3: Our community, well we say, when these criminals rock up

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Speaker 3: to court, the presumption should be they're not going anywhere,

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Speaker 3: and then the defense can try and explain why this

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Speaker 3: person should be left out let back out on the street.

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Speaker 1: Now we have read as well in the inter News yesterday.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure if you saw that Alex Tracy had

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Speaker 1: written an article about Dolly INCAPAX and how it is basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, how it is sort of meaning that in

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Speaker 1: some situations, kids that are committing crimes are then ending

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Speaker 1: up back on the street because really it's not able

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Speaker 1: to be proven that they actually have known what they are.

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Speaker 4: Doing is wrong.

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Speaker 1: You know, I'm not expecting you, you know, to go

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Speaker 1: into to how judges decide whether they do or do

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Speaker 1: not grant someone bail or whether somebody is allowed back

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Speaker 1: on the street.

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Speaker 4: But again, is that causing some issues here.

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Speaker 3: It is a massive problem, Kane, and I'm very happy

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Speaker 3: to tell Territorians it's something we are actively researching and

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Speaker 3: looking at.

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Speaker 2: Because it's a major issue.

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Speaker 3: So the courts at the moment when you hear feedback

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Speaker 3: from police and others involved in the court system, if

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Speaker 3: a young person's under fourteen, they're basically saying, look, they don't.

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Speaker 2: Know what they were doing was wrong.

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Speaker 3: And what people, you know, territories listening now need to

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Speaker 3: understand is our police go and prepare the file, do

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Speaker 3: all of the research, make their case, go to court.

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Speaker 3: Show you know this person's had a lot of offending.

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Speaker 3: Show that say, if it was a robbery, you know,

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Speaker 3: they were wearing gloves, they had a bag, it was premeditating.

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Speaker 3: No police can pull all of these facts together only

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Speaker 3: for it to be thrown out on the basis that, oh, no,

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Speaker 3: they're under fourteen.

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Speaker 2: You know, they didn't know what they were doing was wrong.

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Speaker 3: So and that that's very generic what I'm saying there.

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Speaker 3: But we're looking very closely at Dolly and Capax and

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Speaker 3: what can be done, because of course, I think most

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Speaker 3: people have children know that at that age, their kids

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Speaker 3: do know right from wrong, or they should, And in

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Speaker 3: any event, if children don't, then there's a big question

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Speaker 3: around what interfaces have government agencies had with that child

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Speaker 3: and that family in the lead up to that event.

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Speaker 3: Because no one turns ten and becomes a criminal, Katie.

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Speaker 3: This is usually long term neglect, interaction with territory, families,

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Speaker 3: interaction with police, and so we need to be supporting

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Speaker 3: families and children at a much younger age so that

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Speaker 3: they are provided with pathways forward, so that they are

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Speaker 3: provided with you know, ensuring that they go to school,

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Speaker 3: for example, so that they're not turning to a life

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Speaker 3: of crime.

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Speaker 4: Lea.

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Speaker 1: One of the things that has been raised time and

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Speaker 1: time again is that for some youths when they do

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Speaker 1: get in trouble, that then it is it's not compulsory

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Speaker 1: to complete a proge.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 1: Will the CLP make those programs compulsory.

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Speaker 3: And that's why we'll lower the age of criminal responsibility.

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Speaker 3: So your answer is yes, if you lower the age

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Speaker 3: of criminal responsibility and make people accountable for their crimes

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Speaker 3: in a legal sense, then it means the court will

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Speaker 3: be sentencing young people to programs, which means those young

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Speaker 3: people and parents have to fulfill them. What's happening at

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Speaker 3: the moment is because they're not being held criminally responsible,

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Speaker 3: all the government can do is say, hey, we think

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Speaker 3: this would be really beneficial for your child, what do

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Speaker 3: you reckon and if the parent says no, well, what

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Speaker 3: can you.

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Speaker 2: Do about it?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely nothing, So it's totally ineffective.

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Speaker 2: Lea.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of people in the community that still

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Speaker 1: believe that tough on crime is not the answer. They

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Speaker 1: still believe that you know that those recommendations from the

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Speaker 1: Royal Commission need to be adhered to, that what the

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Speaker 1: CLP's doing right now, what you're saying right now.

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Speaker 4: Is really just to win votes.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think it's really important to understand that territorians

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Speaker 3: have two choices to make when it comes.

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Speaker 2: To use crime.

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Speaker 3: You either intervene early and provide serious structure and opportunities

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Speaker 3: for those kids going forward, or you allow them to

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Speaker 3: continue to escalate in their criminal behavior until they're much older,

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Speaker 3: by which time the opportunity to turn them around becomes

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Speaker 3: much more difficult because you have more serious and ingrained behavior,

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Speaker 3: and you also then start pushing towards an adult correctional

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Speaker 3: situation right, which is an entirely different ballgame than youth justice.

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Speaker 3: So our position is very much about making sure that

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Speaker 3: the sooner we can intervene in a young person's life

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Speaker 3: who's going off the rails who's not showing up to school,

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Speaker 3: whose families are neglecting them, the better chance they've got

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Speaker 3: in life. And if they're committing crimes, we must hold

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Speaker 3: them accountable and provide them with boot camps, bush camps,

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Speaker 3: whatever it might be that child requires to divert the

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Speaker 3: course of their life away from a trajectory into adult

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Speaker 3: prison and a trajectory into the workforce where they're going

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Speaker 3: to contribute to our society.

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Speaker 1: So, Leah, would a government that you lead have no

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Speaker 1: hesitation in removing a child from a home if you

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Speaker 1: feel as though they are on that wrong path.

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Speaker 3: It is a very sad reality of life, Katie, But

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Speaker 3: you cannot allow children to continue to be neglected, not

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Speaker 3: have food security, housing security, all of these types of things.

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Speaker 3: I think even in the paper today, Katie, I can't

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Speaker 3: remember the exact article, but I thought I read today

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Speaker 3: that one young person who'd interacted with the justice system

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Speaker 3: had something like fifty four child protection notifications.

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Speaker 4: That article we're.

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Speaker 2: Talking about the same one, yep.

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Speaker 3: So you know, these are serious volumes of concern around

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Speaker 3: a young person.

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Speaker 2: And as I said, and many of you.

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Speaker 3: Listening have probably had a chat to me on the

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Speaker 3: street I say it when I'm on the street too.

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Speaker 3: No child at ten or eleven or twelve wakes up

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Speaker 3: and becomes a criminal.

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Speaker 1: Had I mean, if they have had that many interactions,

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Speaker 1: do you believe that child should be removed from the family.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's a much more serious look we

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Speaker 3: need to be having. But let's not forget it. It's

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Speaker 3: not necessarily about that. In those first years of life

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Speaker 3: when a child's not going to school. We have a

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Speaker 3: policy in place to make sure that parents are held

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Speaker 3: accountable because it is against the law not to send

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Speaker 3: your kids to school, and we will absolutely hold parents

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Speaker 3: accountable for their failure to do that. No one has

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Speaker 3: a right to deny their child of an opportunity into

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Speaker 3: the future of an education, No one, And so we

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Speaker 3: will make sure that the law is in forced to

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Speaker 3: support kids getting access to school, access to food, and

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Speaker 3: have a healthy, productive life going forward.

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Speaker 1: Leah, before I let you go, are the colp HA

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Speaker 1: indeed announced candidates for four seats. Are you happy to

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Speaker 1: see these women putting their hands up? Oh?

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Speaker 3: It's just so exciting, Katie. It really marks a turning

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Speaker 3: point in the campaign. We're obviously got candidate announcements to

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Speaker 3: come and we've got some incredible people. I mean Robin

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Speaker 3: Carhill from Palmerston GPS super Clinic here in Port Darwin.

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Speaker 3: We've got Lori Zeo is someone a senior in education

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Speaker 3: who's had a lot of experience in Truan.

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Speaker 2: See what I was just talking about. She's in Fanny Bay.

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Speaker 3: We've got Ollie Carlson who's in financial services.

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Speaker 2: She's out in Bulgouri.

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Speaker 3: And of course Helen's secretary, the chairwoman of Guala Dariniki

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Speaker 3: out in the seat of Nightcliff. So strong women, incredibly

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Speaker 3: well connected, passionate territorians, fighters in their own right. I

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Speaker 3: think they're going to be exceptional and make strong, vast

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Speaker 3: connections with their communities, and I think they'll be exceptional memberspecting.

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Speaker 4: The pre selection for the other candidates to happen.

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Speaker 3: It's all will be unvowed soon, Katie. I'm becoming days,

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Speaker 3: coming days, absolutely coming days. Watch this space where we're very,

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Speaker 3: very excited, and I think, as President has said before

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Speaker 3: on the show, Katie, we were just inundated with people

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Speaker 3: wanting to put their hand up and I think that

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Speaker 3: reflects just how palpable the concern is in the community

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Speaker 3: and people are saying enough is enough, the heat to

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Speaker 3: fight for the territory.

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Speaker 2: They want to put up their hand and make a difference.

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Speaker 3: And I just appeal to everyone who's thinking of leaving

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Speaker 3: or who doesn't know whether they can take it anymore,

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Speaker 3: stay and fight.

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Speaker 2: The territory can and will be saved.

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Speaker 3: The COLP is so focused on creating a better future

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Speaker 3: for all of us, where our streets are safe again,

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Speaker 3: we can enjoy our beautiful lifestyle and there are great

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Speaker 3: jobs now and for our kids. So don't give up

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Speaker 3: on the territory. August is a chance for change.

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Speaker 1: Leah, as always, thanks so much for your time this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thank you everyone,