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Speaker 1: This story discusses sexual assault and harassment, as well as

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Speaker 1: drug and alcohol use. If you need to talk to

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Speaker 1: someone about anything raised in this story, you can always

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Speaker 1: reach out by calling one eight hundred respect on one

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Speaker 1: eight hundred seven three seven seven three to two or

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Speaker 1: texting zero four five eight seven three seven seven three

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Speaker 1: to two and will put those numbers in today's show notes.

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Speaker 2: Already, and this is the daily This is the daily,

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Speaker 2: This is the daily ours.

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Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Daily oas it's Wednesday, the twenty eighth of August.

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Speaker 1: I'm sam, I'm lucy. A culture of excessive drinking, drug use,

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Speaker 1: prizes for having sex with customers, and sexual assault all

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Speaker 1: in the workplace. Those are some of the broader allegations

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Speaker 1: leveled at senior management of the swill House Hospitality Group,

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Speaker 1: a Sydney based group of restaurants and bars that owns

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Speaker 1: some of the city's most popular and high profile establishments

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Speaker 1: Bush After an explosive investigation by The Sydney Morning Herald

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Speaker 1: last week detailing allegations of not only those harmful patterns

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Speaker 1: at work, but concerted efforts to cover up these allegations

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Speaker 1: by management, the group is now under investigation by Safe

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Speaker 1: Work New South Wales. In today's podcast, we're going to

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Speaker 1: speak to the two journalists who uncovered this story, The Heralds,

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Speaker 1: Eric Bagshaw and Bianca Havash, about how they built a

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Speaker 1: story some are calling the tip of the hospitality Iceberg.

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Speaker 1: Before we get to that chat, Lucy, what is making

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Speaker 1: headlines this morning?

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Speaker 2: The Federal Parliament has set up a new inquiry investigating

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Speaker 2: whether Australia's alcohol and drug policies are working effectively. It's

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Speaker 2: also been tasked with looking at treatment services and community programs,

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Speaker 2: as well as the workforce needed to staff these programs.

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Speaker 2: Coalition MP Julian Lisa, who will be the inquiry's deputy chair,

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Speaker 2: said it was quote a good opportunity to hear directly

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Speaker 2: from frontline service providers about the challenges they are dealing with.

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Speaker 1: The federal government said it has secured an extra twenty

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Speaker 1: two million bags of IV fluid following a national shortage

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Speaker 1: earlier this month. Federal Health Minister Mark Butler said he

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Speaker 1: had worked with local producers to secure the supply, which

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Speaker 1: will be rolled out over the next six months. Individual

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Speaker 1: states and territories told the minister this week that the

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Speaker 1: shortage had been easing, However, quote supply remains constrained.

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Speaker 2: A Pakistani journalist has filed a petition in the country's

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Speaker 2: High Court over national internet slowdowns, which it's alleged a

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Speaker 2: due to government intervention. The country's internet speeds have reportedly

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Speaker 2: slowed by around forty percent over the last two weeks.

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Speaker 2: The government's telecommunication authority said the slow internet is due

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Speaker 2: to issues with international underwater cables, while the country's IT

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Speaker 2: minister has denied government involvement a mid militant violence in

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Speaker 2: the country southwest, where at least seventy three people have

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Speaker 2: been killed in a conflict over control of the province

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Speaker 2: of Balochistan.

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Speaker 1: And for today's good news, A team of scientists in

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Speaker 1: Scotland have one access to a huge data set of

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Speaker 1: brain scans. We're talking about one point six million images.

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Speaker 1: The day plan to use to build an AI powered

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Speaker 1: dementia research tool. It's hope the size of the data

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Speaker 1: set will help researchers identify common patterns in people at

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Speaker 1: risk of dementia, ultimately leading to earlier diagnosis and tailored treatments.

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Speaker 1: The University of Edinburgh's professor Will Whiteley said that quote currently,

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Speaker 1: treatments for dementia are expensive, scarce and of uncertain value,

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Speaker 1: so better use of simple brain scans to predict it

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Speaker 1: will lead to a better understanding of dementia.

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Speaker 2: Sam, Before we jump into your chat with Eric Bagshaw

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Speaker 2: and Bianca Hervat from the City Morning Herald, can you

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Speaker 2: walk me through some of the key facts, so, like,

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Speaker 2: tell me about swill House.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, sure, So. Swill House is a company of over

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Speaker 1: three hundred staff, formed in two thousand and eight and

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Speaker 1: it runs a number of restaurants and bars in Sydney

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Speaker 1: like the Baxter's in Restaurant, Hubert Caterpillar Club, Shady Pines

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Speaker 1: and La Foote. They're kind of up there in the

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Speaker 1: Sydney hospitality scene with a group like the Mayor Vale

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Speaker 1: Group as one of the largest players in the market.

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Speaker 2: So then last week the Herald starts publishing these very

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Speaker 2: serious allegations in an investigation that now spans eleven stories,

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Speaker 2: and these allegations were made by former employees of swill

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Speaker 2: House Group. Tell me about the sort of things they

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Speaker 2: were alleging.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So, as you said, there's been eleven stories now,

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Speaker 1: so there's quite a lot in there. But if you

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Speaker 1: were to kind of categorize it into broad areas. The

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Speaker 1: findings are really about alleged misogyny, sexual harassment, cover ups,

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Speaker 1: and drug abuse across a number of those swill House venues.

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Speaker 1: Perhaps centrally, the SMH investigation reported that male bartenders ranked

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Speaker 1: female customers attractiveness and encouraged staff to have sex with patrons.

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Speaker 1: One former Hubert staffer said she was raped in the

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Speaker 1: restaurant toilets by a colleague. After reporting the incident, the

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Speaker 1: woman claims senior management reduced her working hours. The SMH

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Speaker 1: investigations also detailed allegations of a widespread culture of excessive

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Speaker 1: drinking and drug abuse across almost all of the swill

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Speaker 1: House venues, and.

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Speaker 2: All of those allegations, now that they're in the public domain,

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Speaker 2: have led to the CEO of Swell House and on

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Speaker 2: Fort stepping down, although it's worth noting that he's not

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Speaker 2: personally accused of any misconduct other than that resignation. What

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Speaker 2: have we heard from the group itself?

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Speaker 1: Will We kind of have this one social media post

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Speaker 1: from the Swell House group across most of their social

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Speaker 1: media accounts, and it basically says that the allegations pertain

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Speaker 1: to quote how swill House used to operate in the past.

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Speaker 1: The statement continued and said, quote, we sincerely apologize to

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Speaker 1: anyone who has felt hurt, unsafe, unprotected, triggered or unheard.

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Speaker 2: And now there's a safe work New South Wales investigation.

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Speaker 2: And that's where we pick up with your conversation with

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Speaker 2: Eric and Bianca exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I don't think that's the end of the story

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Speaker 1: by any means. So it's an interesting time to talk

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Speaker 1: to Bianca and Eric. Here's that chat. Bianca and Eric,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us this morning. Bianca, I'd love

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Speaker 1: to start with you. For a listener of this podcast

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Speaker 1: who's perhaps not from Sydney, or who doesn't work in hospitality,

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Speaker 1: or isn't really connected to this will House group, either

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Speaker 1: as an employee or just you know, a visitor to

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Speaker 1: one of their venues, why should they be tapping into

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Speaker 1: this story.

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Speaker 3: I think it's important because so many people eat out

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Speaker 3: like it's a very popular activity and we need to

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Speaker 3: know that, you know, where we're going is worth supporting

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Speaker 3: and they are looking after their staff. So many of

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Speaker 3: us do have jobs in hospitality as we grow up,

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Speaker 3: or no people in hospitality. I think it's a very

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Speaker 3: legitimate career, and people should have the opportunity to see

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Speaker 3: it as such and pursue it without any fear of

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Speaker 3: sexual harassment or a result.

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Speaker 1: Eric, when this story first kind of came into your

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Speaker 1: orbit as much as you can tell me, because I know,

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Speaker 1: of course journalists, you know, we have to protect our sources.

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Speaker 1: But what were the kind of initial stages of this

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Speaker 1: coming into your life? This story, Well, we.

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Speaker 4: Had always had discussions I think around whether it's friends

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Speaker 4: in hospitality or contacts. You know, it's long been at

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Speaker 4: least rumored about sexual harassment, drugs, poor treatment in restaurants

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Speaker 4: and bars. In many ways that is not surprising. But

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Speaker 4: why this is a big story is the way the

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Speaker 4: company responded to those claims. And this is not a

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Speaker 4: small company. This company has six seven venues, millions of

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Speaker 4: dollars in revenue, three hundred plus staff. It is a

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Speaker 4: big player. And I think that's the other key thing

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Speaker 4: looking at it here is that it's not like we're

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Speaker 4: just looking at a series of bars and restaurants. We're

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Speaker 4: actually looking at a very large business. And as we've

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Speaker 4: seen in other stories in other industries, they need to

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Speaker 4: take sexual harassment and assault claims seriously, and when they don't,

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Speaker 4: it can often blow up in their face. So one

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Speaker 4: part of that is you've got rumors and suggestions of

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Speaker 4: improper behavior. The next part is actually stacking that up.

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Speaker 4: And I think what happened initially there was an anonymous

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Speaker 4: Instagram account that started to pop up back in May

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Speaker 4: or so, and that made some claims that again were

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Speaker 4: unpublishable as far as we were concerned, but we needed

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Speaker 4: to devote some resources to investigating them. The first place

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Speaker 4: you look is former staff. Why have people left? Why

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Speaker 4: over these periods of these people exiting the business, and

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Speaker 4: you start talking to them, and they start connecting you

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Speaker 4: with other people, and eventually you establish a pattern of

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Speaker 4: behavior that has occurred within these businesses. And in the

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Speaker 4: course of that, one group kept on coming up time

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Speaker 4: and time again, and that was Swellhouse. So that the

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Speaker 4: process that we started at until we got to this

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Speaker 4: week to be able to publish based on not just

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Speaker 4: multiple claims, but some on the record claims now about

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Speaker 4: their experiences within that company.

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Speaker 1: So do you mean that the kind of turning point

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Speaker 1: in you both seeing this piece as just another piece too,

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Speaker 1: This is actually a substantive, meaty story that might change

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Speaker 1: an industry. Was that the element of the company knowing

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Speaker 1: about it throughout the years and not taking action. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that was the secret ingredient per se?

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Speaker 3: I think it's a little bit of both. I think

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Speaker 3: it's that definitely, but I think it's also it's so

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Speaker 3: unusual to find women who can speak up about it

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Speaker 3: or feel supported enough to speak up about it, And

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Speaker 3: that means that it's so rare to be able to

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Speaker 3: put together a story and verify it to publishable quality.

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Speaker 3: And we're so lucky that those women did feel confident

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Speaker 3: enough to speak to us about.

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Speaker 1: That spell that out a bit for people listening at

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Speaker 1: the home. So why couldn't you go public with allegations

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Speaker 1: where the women who are making those allegations wanted to

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Speaker 1: remain completely anonymous.

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Speaker 4: Well, we did certainly in our first report way back

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Speaker 4: on Wednesday, which feels like an eternaty ego, we established

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Speaker 4: five sexual assault complainants. Now, that's one thing to make

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Speaker 4: an allegation of sexual assault, but you actually need documentary

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Speaker 4: evidence to be able to publish, certainly for the Herald,

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Speaker 4: and that includes police reports. So once we established the

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Speaker 4: allegations have not just been made internally within the company

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Speaker 4: and escalated up the chain, but that police had been

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Speaker 4: brought in, then we're dealing with something that is pretty

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Speaker 4: substantially and on legally safe ground. So that process, you

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Speaker 4: can't just publish anonymous allegations in a newspaper. You actually

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Speaker 4: have to be able to verify them. And then once

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Speaker 4: we went to the company with the details of those

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Speaker 4: allegations and they confirmed every single incident had occurred, we

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Speaker 4: were in a very strong position to be able to

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Speaker 4: press publish on this story. And subsequent to that, because

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Speaker 4: of how the company has responded and the claims that

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Speaker 4: it has now cleaned up its act, we have seen

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Speaker 4: other staff and some of the original complainants now prepared

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Speaker 4: to go on the record and come out publicly and

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Speaker 4: identify themselves. Jenna Hemsworth, a twenty eighteen Bartender of the Year,

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Speaker 4: Rocky Hair, one of Sydney's best known bartenders. Two women

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Speaker 4: at the very top of this company who said they

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Speaker 4: were sexually assaulted by working there, and the company failed

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Speaker 4: to respond in the proper way. And so at that

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Speaker 4: point you are starting to see again a pattern of

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Speaker 4: behavior that makes a story more substantial than just one

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Speaker 4: off incidents.

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Speaker 1: And so here we are. We know that Safe Work

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Speaker 1: New South Wales is looking into it and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to ask you guys about that occurring now as a

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Speaker 1: result of your investigation, what exactly in your eyes can

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Speaker 1: Safe Work New South Wales do. I mean, one of

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Speaker 1: the questions that we've gotten from our readers and listeners

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Speaker 1: is what is safe Work? I mean, who is this body?

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Speaker 1: And what can I actually do the stop? What sounds

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Speaker 1: like based on you're reporting a deeply endemic cultural issue.

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Speaker 1: What are your thoughts on that?

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Speaker 4: So safe Work is the government body responsible for making

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Speaker 4: sure that employees are safe wherever they're working. In this instance,

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Speaker 4: safe Work also has a responsibility for maintaining and overseeing

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Speaker 4: whether drugs are being used in workplaces, whether they're sexual

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Speaker 4: assault and harassment going in. I think one of the

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Speaker 4: problems with police handling of sexual assault and harassment claims

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Speaker 4: historically has been that some people have been reluctant to

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Speaker 4: come forward or sometimes they feel as though their allegations

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Speaker 4: may not be taken seriously. That's probably changed a bit

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Speaker 4: in recent times, but that stigma still there. So safe

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Speaker 4: work is another avenue that people can go down. They

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Speaker 4: have enforced large penalties on corporations before. Whether they will

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Speaker 4: do that in this case, I don't know, but certainly

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Speaker 4: that is one of the powers that they have to

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Speaker 4: pursue those matters through the courts.

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Speaker 1: Biancerraps and a few tweets over the last couple of

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Speaker 1: days with so rumors allegations, if you want to put

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Speaker 1: it like that, that other hospitality groups are reaching out

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Speaker 1: to staff instructing them not to talk to media. Does

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Speaker 1: that give you a sense that this is the tip

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Speaker 1: of the hospitality iceberg when it comes to this kind

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Speaker 1: of behavior.

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Speaker 3: My gosh, so much. We've gotten just an endless stream

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Speaker 3: of people contacting us, a lot more willing to go

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Speaker 3: on record now, just women who felt like they could

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Speaker 3: never speak up before and now feel like there's all

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Speaker 3: this support where at least they didn't perceive it to

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Speaker 3: exist before, and that's really powerful. But it does show

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Speaker 3: how pervasive an issue it is in hospitality. It seems

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Speaker 3: to be affecting a lot of big hospitality groups, and

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Speaker 3: that's definitely something that we wouldn't want to look into further.

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Speaker 1: So you're going to keep reporting on these hospitality groups,

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Speaker 1: not just willhelse Yes.

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Speaker 4: It's staggering that the level of disclosures we've received, and

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Speaker 4: I would say to any hospitality groups that the only

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Speaker 4: thing you could do to guarantee that you will be

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Speaker 4: in the new is to say, don't talk to the media.

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Speaker 4: Tilly Divine, a group that also runs some bars and restaurants,

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Speaker 4: and Sydy did exactly that just last week, and of

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Speaker 4: course we put them in the story say they were

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Speaker 4: trying to silence their stuff. It's a classic case of

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Speaker 4: if you're actually open to transparency and you actually want

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Speaker 4: better outcomes for your staff, then you have to be

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Speaker 4: open to scrutiny, and I think some large hospitality organizations

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Speaker 4: are only just starting to learn that.

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Speaker 1: One more point Todd, then, I guess, is that whilst

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Speaker 1: you guys would have been doing this investigation and reporting,

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Speaker 1: there were other harassment claims at nine, which is your workplace.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it appears to me that media is not

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Speaker 1: immune from this clearly as well. I mean there's been

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Speaker 1: a seven investigation done by ABC's Four Corners. Was that

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Speaker 1: difficult to be at nine whilst these allegations and claims

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Speaker 1: and dismissals ultimately were coming up, and also you were

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Speaker 1: working on a story that was almost parallel in another sector.

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Speaker 3: I'm a little bit separate from all of that. It

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Speaker 3: was difficult, but the Good Food team is predominantly female,

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Speaker 3: so it's not something we've personally run into, but it

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Speaker 3: is such a massive issue, it seems, especially in broadcast watching.

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Speaker 3: That four Post report was really high.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I'd say that, you know, to its credit,

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Speaker 4: the Herald's and it's leadership. You know, we were running

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Speaker 4: daily front page stories on the internal sexual harassment allegations

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Speaker 4: and treatment of women within nine, our parent company. And

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Speaker 4: I think that's a really good principle to maintain, because

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Speaker 4: you know, there's no better transparency, you know than slight,

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Speaker 4: than to be open to exploring these issues, and I

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Speaker 4: think our paper actually has a very proud record of

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Speaker 4: doing that.

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Speaker 1: Eric and Bank. I just want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: your reporting and for your time. We'll throw a link

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Speaker 1: to some of the stories. I can see The Herald's

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Speaker 1: actually made a nice kind of timeline of tracking when

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Speaker 1: this first story was broken, and then the kind of

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Speaker 1: five or six stories and a note from your editor

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Speaker 1: that have happened since. We'll throw that in today's bio.

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Speaker 1: But thanks so much for joining us on the daily odds.

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Speaker 4: Thank you.

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Speaker 2: Thanks M Thank you for joining us on the Daily

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Speaker 2: Odds today. If you need to talk to someone about

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Speaker 2: anything raised in this story, you can always reach out

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Speaker 2: to one eight hundred respect on one eight hundred seven

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Speaker 2: three seven seven three to two, or you can text

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Speaker 2: oh four five eight seven three seven seven three two.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back again with another episode tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calcoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present,