1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: Let's head across right now and speak more about well, 2 00:00:03,560 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: the impact that having those police in Alice Springs is having. 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: We've just heard from the Mayor of Alice. It's obviously 4 00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:13,240 Speaker 1: a really positive thing for the community of Alice Springs. 5 00:00:13,800 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: Last week we heard from the Police Association though that 6 00:00:16,400 --> 00:00:20,439 Speaker 1: the move may mean that we're robbing Peter to pay Paul. Now, 7 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 1: yesterday in Parliament there was an issue that was raised 8 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: by the Opposition and we spoke to Leafanochiaro about this. 9 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: Just a short time ago. They questioned the Police Minister 10 00:00:28,720 --> 00:00:32,280 Speaker 1: about the closure of remote police stations in order for 11 00:00:32,400 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 1: this surge to happen. Joining me on the line is 12 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:37,800 Speaker 1: the president of the Police Association, Paul McHugh. 13 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:40,400 Speaker 2: Good morning, Paul, Good morning Katie. 14 00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:44,040 Speaker 1: How are you not too bad now, Paul? Have remote 15 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: stations closed in order to surge police into Alice. 16 00:00:48,320 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I believe you know, certainly our information is 17 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 2: you know, Hearts Range has been mentioned as one station 18 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,400 Speaker 2: that's closed, but I know, you know, other stations, including 19 00:00:57,440 --> 00:01:01,120 Speaker 2: some other remote stations may be impacted as well by 20 00:01:01,280 --> 00:01:05,360 Speaker 2: being provided or providing resources into Alice Springs to help 21 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 2: with this surge. So you know, we can't really confirm 22 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: what other stations might be closed, but certainly it's having 23 00:01:11,760 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: an impact across the board, there's no question about that. 24 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 1: So when you talk about Hearts Range, I know that 25 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,839 Speaker 1: the opposition later had mentioned that it services a number 26 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 1: of communities. How big an area are we talking about 27 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 1: here that there are no police now. 28 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 2: Well, it's a significant area community. They're out at Hearts 29 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 2: Range and of course you know it's an accessible location 30 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: for many many people in that area, so they obviously 31 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 2: expect police there. But of course you can't. You can't 32 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 2: take forty police and a lot of them into our 33 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: springs without it having an impact in many other locations. 34 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: And that's just one of many that are now impacted, 35 00:01:47,520 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: you know, right across the territory because of this surge 36 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:53,440 Speaker 2: requirement down there in Alice Springs. So you know, it 37 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: is impacting across the board. We know our members have 38 00:01:56,160 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: already provided feedback that, you know, whilst it's great to 39 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 2: see now there analysis and obviously it's amazing what you 40 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 2: can do with sufficient boots on the ground, isn't it 41 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:09,760 Speaker 2: to actually proactively police and show that presence in the 42 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 2: community there, it impacts in other locations quite significantly, Paul. 43 00:02:15,160 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: When you talk about surging the police, we keep hearing 44 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: there are more police than there's ever been before. The 45 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: government keeps trotting out that line and also saying that 46 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:27,520 Speaker 1: there's greater investment than ever before. So why are we 47 00:02:27,600 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: in a situation where we can't surge up without impacting 48 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 1: other communities. 49 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 2: I think it's really a combination of a lot of things, 50 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 2: you know, O Katie. Obviously has been a fair change 51 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: in policy legislation over the last few years in terms 52 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 2: of alcohol consumption and liquor and the ability for police 53 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 2: to work in that space, and that's really impacted of 54 00:02:51,160 --> 00:02:54,040 Speaker 2: course on police numbers. But obviously there's been a surge 55 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 2: in youth crime, there's been an increase in domestic and 56 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:01,239 Speaker 2: family violence, and of course our significly hi attrition rate 57 00:03:01,320 --> 00:03:03,679 Speaker 2: has meant you know, as somebody walks out the door, 58 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 2: it takes really twelve months to get someone else in 59 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 2: to replace that person, and obviously that recruiting is struggling 60 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,720 Speaker 2: to keep up. So it's really impacting across the board. 61 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:14,800 Speaker 1: Now. I know there'll be people listening this morning and 62 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 1: thinking to themselves, how are we able to surge up 63 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,640 Speaker 1: for operations like the arrival of biking gangs, but we 64 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: can't sort of do it for other things like what 65 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: we're saying in Alice. 66 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's a million dollar question really. I mean, 67 00:03:27,120 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 2: obviously it's challenging when you're talking about a surge capacity, 68 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:33,399 Speaker 2: say in the Greater Darwin area, where you can draw 69 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 2: on resources that are already in the Darwen area, versus Alice, 70 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: for example, where you've got to essentially fly people in 71 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:44,040 Speaker 2: and accommodate them and put them in put them to 72 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:47,080 Speaker 2: work down there. And of course we've seen some great results. 73 00:03:47,120 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: You know, we've obviously seen the figures and that's having 74 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: a good impact down there at the moment, but it's 75 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: not sustainable, and I know we do keep hearing the government. 76 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 2: So we've got additional we've got better budget than ever before, 77 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 2: we've got more numbers never before. But what's their comparative 78 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 2: figure if we're talking ten years ago, It's been ten 79 00:04:05,240 --> 00:04:08,400 Speaker 2: years since we've really reviewed what police are required to do. 80 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 2: So how do we know those numbers are our right 81 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 2: and that funding is actually correct as we certainly don't 82 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 2: think it is now, Paul. 83 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: One of the other big things that's happened, of course, 84 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 1: overnight the raising of the age of criminal responsibility. There 85 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: has been sort of some further detail I guess you 86 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,400 Speaker 1: would say provided we spoke to the opposition about this 87 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:32,680 Speaker 1: a short time ago. Now sorry, the government have issued 88 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,160 Speaker 1: in their statement from last night, the Attorney General has 89 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: said that Northern Territory Police will continue to investigate offenses 90 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 1: and victims of crime will continue to receive assistance through 91 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: financial compensation and free counseling, as well as home security 92 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 1: assessments and emergency resecure services. But can you talk us 93 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: through operationally how exactly the Northern Territory Police will continue 94 00:04:56,600 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: to investigate offenses for those under the age of t well, 95 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: if they're not able to be held criminally responsible for 96 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: their actions. 97 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:10,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I guess. Ultimately, police's role is to respond 98 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:16,160 Speaker 2: to crime, whether it's proactively or reactively, and until such 99 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 2: time as they you know, they obviously need to find 100 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 2: out who committed that crime, how it was committed, and 101 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:23,599 Speaker 2: then ultimately if it turns out to be a child 102 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,279 Speaker 2: under the age of twelve. Now, ultimately there's very little 103 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 2: in terms of prosecution that police will be able to do, 104 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 2: but the role is still going to be to investigate 105 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 2: that crime. So it will no doubt continue to tie 106 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 2: up resources. But I guess from a victim's perspective, you know, 107 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 2: they deserve the right to have that crime investigated now 108 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 2: that the law will be changing, you know, that's very 109 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 2: much out of the hands of police. But what we 110 00:05:46,760 --> 00:05:50,840 Speaker 2: obviously the major concern from our perspective, is having police 111 00:05:50,920 --> 00:05:56,599 Speaker 2: tied up essentially doing babysitting these young people without other 112 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: departments and NGO stepping in to actually take up the slack, 113 00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:03,400 Speaker 2: because the last thing we need is police tied up 114 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: on these sorts of matters when ultimately there's nothing they 115 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: can do about it. 116 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 1: Yes, So, like let's say that you know that a 117 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,039 Speaker 1: ten and eleven year old are involved in the theft 118 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,279 Speaker 1: of a vehicle, and you know we've heard it on 119 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,320 Speaker 1: this show before where there's been the eleven year and 120 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: eleven year old behind the wheel of a stolen car. 121 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:22,039 Speaker 1: So let's say there's a situation like that. The Northern 122 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:25,560 Speaker 1: Territory Police obviously apprehend those young people. Then what do 123 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: they have to do just are they able to you know, 124 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: to apprehend them, and what do they have to do 125 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,480 Speaker 1: with them after that point? If you know, if the 126 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: age has. 127 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: Changed, well, Ultimately, that's why we were supportive. Obviously, the Commissioner, 128 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 2: I believe you know, was trying to push back the 129 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:49,600 Speaker 2: implementation of any changes in this legislation for some time. 130 00:06:49,680 --> 00:06:52,760 Speaker 2: We were supportive of, you know, making sure there's as 131 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 2: long as leading time as possible, because ultimately the police 132 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:58,680 Speaker 2: will need to understand their role. They'll need to understand 133 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 2: what protections they have, because ultimately they have a right 134 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,039 Speaker 2: as a police office to take action if there's a 135 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: crime being committed before them. We've seen many vehicles recently 136 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 2: being used as deadly weapons, attacking other vehicles and being 137 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,760 Speaker 2: driven towards people. Police have the right to take that 138 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:19,200 Speaker 2: relevant action. And then ultimately we need to understand and 139 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: the police will need to understand, which we don't just yet, 140 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: what that means for them in terms of the action 141 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:27,640 Speaker 2: they can take with those young individuals, because ultimately, until 142 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 2: you apprehend that person and actually ascertain their age, you know, 143 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:34,000 Speaker 2: things will be exactly the same as they are now. 144 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: But so at this point in time, it sounds like 145 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: there's still a lot of operational questions that the police 146 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: don't actually know the answers to. 147 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and from our perspective, our members have the right 148 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,800 Speaker 2: to be protected in their actions and in the workplace. 149 00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:49,960 Speaker 2: So you know, we need to make sure and we 150 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 2: need to be comfortable on behalf of our members that 151 00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 2: all of these operational matters work through. And I know 152 00:07:56,560 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 2: that the commissioners very alive to this, and you know 153 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 2: there's got to be significant leading time to allow that 154 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 2: process to be played out through the sixteen hundred DoD 155 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 2: police we have in. 156 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:11,400 Speaker 1: The end, Well, our officers annoyed that this has been 157 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: pushed through as quickly as it has without those discussions 158 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:16,080 Speaker 1: happening prior. 159 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, obviously we know we're on behalf of the 160 00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 2: members made a submission in relation to this and really 161 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 2: wanted this legislation held back until all of the ducks 162 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:30,080 Speaker 2: were in a row, and obviously the government weren't supportive 163 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,360 Speaker 2: of that. They wanted to push this legislation through. I 164 00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:36,839 Speaker 2: guess essentially saying we won't really kick it off or 165 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:40,080 Speaker 2: gazette it until such time as everything's in place. We 166 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,880 Speaker 2: would have liked to have actually seen it all in place, 167 00:08:43,320 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: everyone understand what this is going to mean, and then 168 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 2: by all means push ahead. But you know that's not 169 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 2: what the government have done. 170 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,360 Speaker 1: Well, Police Association President Paul Mcue. We always appreciate your time. 171 00:08:54,400 --> 00:08:56,320 Speaker 1: Thanks so much for speaking with me this morning. 172 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:58,360 Speaker 2: Thanks Katie, thank you.