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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers. Now, children have

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Speaker 1: got this really highly attuned I'm going to call it

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Speaker 1: a fairness antenna.

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Speaker 2: It's funny you say that because Emily's teacher last year

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Speaker 2: talked about Emily's highly tuned in sense of social justice.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 2: I think it was a really nice way of her

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Speaker 2: saying that everything felt unfair to family.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was going to use. Our kids

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Speaker 1: keep track. They know the score, and if someone's got

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Speaker 1: privileges that they don't have, there's only one word for

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Speaker 1: it from the kid's mouths. They say, it's just so unfair. Fair.

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Speaker 1: So I jumped onto Facebook about a week ago and said,

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Speaker 1: what is it that your kids can't do that everyone

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Speaker 1: else apparently can. What is it that makes your kids say, oh,

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Speaker 1: that's so unfair? And the reason that I did it

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Speaker 1: was because we got a message via email podcasts at

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Speaker 1: happy Families dot com dot you podcasts with an s

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Speaker 1: at happy families dot com dot you. Somebody who wanted

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Speaker 1: to remain anonymous sent us an email and said, why

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Speaker 1: does everyone else get to do it? Recently, my first

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Speaker 1: grader came home from school using swear words and we

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Speaker 1: had to sit down and have a discussion about what

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Speaker 1: those words were and why kids shouldn't be using them.

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Speaker 1: During the chat, my son mentioned that he learnt the

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Speaker 1: phrase from a friend, and his friend's parents allowed him

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Speaker 1: to use those words at home and at school and wherever.

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Speaker 1: It's this Mum said, My real feeling on this is

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Speaker 1: standards are different across households and it's important for my

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Speaker 1: kids to understand why we do things a certain way

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Speaker 1: without my child passing judgment on schoolmates who do things

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Speaker 1: different ways. Justin and Kylie, do you have any ways

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Speaker 1: that you can help us to navigate this conversation through

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Speaker 1: the years. I know it's the first of many, from

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Speaker 1: this to cell phones to curfew. One day, I would

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Speaker 1: really love to get your thoughts, So I put it

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Speaker 1: on Facebook, like I said, and just said, what is

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Speaker 1: it that you guys are struggling with that your kids

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Speaker 1: want to do that everyone else can do accept for them?

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Speaker 1: And these were some of the voice memos that you

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Speaker 1: sent us via podcasts at Happy Families dot com dot you.

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Speaker 3: Four years we had the discussion with particularly my daughter

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Speaker 3: about when she'd be allowed to have a mobile phone

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Speaker 3: because all her friends have mobile phones, particularly when she

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Speaker 3: started high school, and we're pretty strict about stuff like

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Speaker 3: that and really didn't want her to have a mobile

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Speaker 3: phone until she was at least fourteen. And it was Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was quite a difficult situation because a lot of

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Speaker 3: her friends did have phones, but we stuck at her

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Speaker 3: guns and explained all the reasons behind it and managed

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Speaker 3: to get to thirteen before we gave her one. Some

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Speaker 3: of the questions we've had lately in the house is

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Speaker 3: one of my daughters wants to be on Snapchat. All

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Speaker 3: her friends are, that's how they interact socially.

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Speaker 1: And another one is.

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Speaker 2: She doesn't like going to the swimming couple and none

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Speaker 2: of her friends are going and she's like, oh, I'll

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Speaker 2: be all by myself.

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Speaker 4: The most recent one for us has been around friends

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Speaker 4: so they're you know, six and seven year olds allowed

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Speaker 4: to watch m erated movies. And we've talked about the

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Speaker 4: fact that as the mum, as a parents, our job

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Speaker 4: is to be the gatekeeper for our kids and to

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Speaker 4: help protect them in their mind, their eyes, what they see,

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Speaker 4: what they hear, and help to protect their spirits. And

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Speaker 4: so that's why we don't allow them to watch things

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Speaker 4: because there's things in the world where it's not appropriate

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Speaker 4: for kids, or it desensitizes kids to horrible things that

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Speaker 4: can happen out in the world.

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Speaker 1: Really appreciate you sending those through. We love having your

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Speaker 1: voices on the podcast. This is clearly an issue.

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Speaker 2: I'm just reading through some of the Facebook comments that

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Speaker 2: were made.

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Speaker 1: It went a bit bonker.

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Speaker 2: Michelle said the conversation in their house was all over sleepovers, TikTok,

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Speaker 2: snapchat and curfews. Samita had an even longer list of

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Speaker 2: its unfair everyone else is doing it from her ten

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Speaker 2: year old. This included why can't I have a sleepover,

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Speaker 2: Why can't I have roadblocks? Why can't I stay up

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Speaker 2: past ten pm? Why can't I have school lunch orders

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Speaker 2: every day because I already spend over five hundred dollars

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Speaker 2: on groceries. Why can't I ride my bike after seven pm?

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Speaker 2: Why can't I have cooke or soft drink? Is this

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Speaker 2: not every parent's life?

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Speaker 1: I love this.

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Speaker 2: Julie from North Queensland said no screens in the bedroom

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Speaker 2: for her teens, it's so unfair and abby and Northern

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Speaker 2: Ireland identify social media for her under thirteen year old. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: being a problem.

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Speaker 1: All my eleven year old friends have got social media

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Speaker 1: even though the rules are thirteen. So he's how to respond.

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Speaker 1: I want to walk through. I mean, there's a lot here,

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Speaker 1: but I want to walk through what we can do

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Speaker 1: regardless of the situation. When the kids are saying everyone

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Speaker 1: else gets to do it the old school way. What

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Speaker 1: my parents would have said to me was, I don't

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Speaker 1: care what happens in their house. In my house, this

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Speaker 1: is what we do.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: And do you know what, In some ways, I'm a

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Speaker 1: little bit sympathetic to that, Like part of me wants

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Speaker 1: to say there is a place for that, and maybe

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Speaker 1: every now and again, as a tired, exhausted parent who

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to have to validate everything and be gentle

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Speaker 1: all the time, I get it, but there is a

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Speaker 1: better way forward.

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Speaker 2: What I love about our anonymous emailer is just that

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Speaker 2: acknowledgment that she wants her child to understand the why,

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Speaker 2: and she wants that's what we're missing from the just

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Speaker 2: theory this generation.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, But I also love how she said,

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Speaker 1: I don't want my child to be thinking that because

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Speaker 1: we've got different standards that we're somehow better. I remember,

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Speaker 1: so we're a non smoking family, and I remember with

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Speaker 1: our younger kids, we really worked hard to drill into

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Speaker 1: them that smoking was not healthy, it wasn't a good option.

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Speaker 1: But at one point I remember having a conversation with

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Speaker 1: one of those kids. I won't identify her, but she

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Speaker 1: saw somebody smoking and she made a judgment about the person.

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Speaker 1: And I realized that we had been so fervent in

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Speaker 1: our desire to make sure our kids didn't smoke that

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Speaker 1: she thought that therefore, if you smoked, that you were bad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: And so I had to sort of walk that back

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Speaker 1: and say, we can there are very very good people

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Speaker 1: in the world who choose to smoke, and that's their decision.

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Speaker 1: It's just that it's really unhealthy. But that doesn't make

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Speaker 1: you a bad person, and trying to distinguish hang on.

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Speaker 1: So if their standards different than mine, that doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: make them a bad person. It's a really important thing

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Speaker 1: to distinguish. So let's dive into a handful of ideas

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Speaker 1: that can be useful on how to respond. I think

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Speaker 1: the number one thing that we want to do. This

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Speaker 1: is my favorite thing to do when the kids are

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Speaker 1: it's so unfair. Is I agree with them? I don't

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Speaker 1: agree that it's unfair, but I agree with their desire.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not agreeing that it's going to be okay

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Speaker 1: for them to do that thing that they want to do.

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Speaker 1: What I'm essentially saying when I say agree with their

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Speaker 1: desire or agree with them, is I'm saying you look

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Speaker 1: at your child when they say it's so unfair and

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Speaker 1: why can't I do that? And you're essentially saying, I

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Speaker 1: get it. I get it. You might even say when

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Speaker 1: I was a kid, I wanted to do a bunch

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Speaker 1: of stuff and my parents wouldn't let me either, and

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Speaker 1: I thought it was so unfair too, Like, I really

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Speaker 1: do get it. And what you're doing is you're validating

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Speaker 1: that vision. It helps them to know that you understand,

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Speaker 1: at least in part, how they feel. So you might

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Speaker 1: say something like this, of being allowed to do that

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Speaker 1: like everyone else would make you feel so much better

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Speaker 1: about life? Am I right?

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Speaker 2: When I listen to you say this, I actually the

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Speaker 2: visual that comes to my mind is getting down to

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Speaker 2: your child's level.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, this is.

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Speaker 2: A metaphorical getting down to your child's level. To I,

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Speaker 2: You're no longer the big person in the room. You

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Speaker 2: actually seeing life through their eyes.

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Speaker 1: So to be clear, no agreement, just recognition and validation.

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Speaker 2: As you go from agreeing with their desire the opportunity

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Speaker 2: there to be empathetic. So their feelings makes such a

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Speaker 2: difference because they feel like you actually understand how they're feeling.

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Speaker 1: So if I was to use an empathy statement, what

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Speaker 1: I'd say is something like, it just feels really tough

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Speaker 1: when you see everyone else geting to do stuff and

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Speaker 1: we're saying no, And it's just describing what they're feeling. Again,

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Speaker 1: it's not agreeing with them, but it's taking it that

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Speaker 1: next step further. First of all, you've said, don't you

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Speaker 1: just wish being allowed to do that like everyone else

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Speaker 1: would just make you feel so much better about life?

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Speaker 1: And it's so tough when they're all doing it and

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Speaker 1: we're saying no. I get that that's the idea behind

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Speaker 1: that empathy thing. I'm really glad that you sort of

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Speaker 1: extended what I was saying to go there.

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Speaker 2: So get curious, not furious. This is one of your

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Speaker 2: little justinisms. Use it all the time, but it's so powerful.

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Speaker 2: We can get really frustrated because the kids feel like

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Speaker 2: they are entitled to everything that everyone else has. But

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Speaker 2: this is an opportunity for us to actually get really

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Speaker 2: curious as to why this is so important to them.

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Speaker 1: We don't usually want to lean in when the kids

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Speaker 1: being braddy, we just want to say, look, just deal

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Speaker 1: with it. I've said, no, I'm tired of this conversation.

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Speaker 1: But when we lean right in, when we understand rather

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Speaker 1: than reprimand when we explore rather than explode, when we

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Speaker 1: get curious not furious. We're just listening to understand. We're

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Speaker 1: not worrying about replying, we're not worried about winning. We're

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Speaker 1: just listening to understand. And it's really interesting when we

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Speaker 1: do this. Sometimes the kids have got really good arguments.

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Speaker 2: I was about to say, I don't think there's ever

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Speaker 2: been a time where I've sat down with my kids

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Speaker 2: and really got curious about why it was they were

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Speaker 2: pushing so hard against us that I haven't gone I

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Speaker 2: really get it. Yes, I really really understand why this

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Speaker 2: is so important.

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Speaker 1: And you're not just listening with your head, you're listening

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Speaker 1: with your heart, so you're trying to feel what they're

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Speaker 1: feeling at the same time that you're trying to see

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Speaker 1: things through their eyes.

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Speaker 2: The word that comes to my mind is compassion. Right,

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Speaker 2: we're actually coming from a place of compassion. We want

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Speaker 2: to understand and we want to sit in that place

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Speaker 2: with them.

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Speaker 1: Once you've done that, it makes it really easy as

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Speaker 1: well to start to explain. And you want to do

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Speaker 1: this fairly, briefly and very gently, especially if they're emotional.

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Speaker 1: But if you give your kids a clear rationale when

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Speaker 1: they're saying but this, and you can really listen to it,

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Speaker 1: you can say, Okay, I get it, I get it.

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Speaker 1: Let me explain to you why this matters. We don't

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Speaker 1: swear because, or we don't do roadblocks because, or we

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Speaker 1: don't have sleepovers because or we're keeping you off social

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Speaker 1: media till you're this age because And then you can

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Speaker 1: step in with a really clear rationale for why you're

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Speaker 1: saying this is my standard.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to one up you on this, Ruddio co.

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Speaker 2: I think it's better that we ask them, yes, why

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Speaker 2: they think we would be concerned about this or why

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Speaker 2: we are at this point in time saying no. When

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Speaker 2: we do that, they're the ones talking and their brains

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Speaker 2: are working. Did I one up you? I can't believe

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Speaker 2: you think of that.

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Speaker 1: I was actually going to say that that was the

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Speaker 1: next part of this, okay, because I've been saying that

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Speaker 1: in pairing workshops often because once we start lecturing, the kids'

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Speaker 1: eyes glaze over.

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Speaker 2: They don't want me to tell them why exactly, because

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Speaker 2: they know why.

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Speaker 1: They usually know why anyway. Yeah, So when we say

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Speaker 1: what do you think my concerns are? Or maybe I

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Speaker 1: mean something like, as a parent, my primary concern is

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Speaker 1: to make sure that you're safe and that you're making

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Speaker 1: choices that are appropriate for your age and for your development.

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Speaker 1: I want to make sure that you're safe and healthy.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think I'd be worried about this?

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Speaker 2: There's been a handful of times we've sat down with

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Speaker 2: our kids and they've given us a list of things

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Speaker 2: that they think, and they haven't even touched on the

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Speaker 2: real issues.

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Speaker 1: And then we just fill in the gaps.

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Speaker 2: And we're able to fill in the gaps. But they've

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Speaker 2: done some thinking. And another great question that we've used

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Speaker 2: over the years, which I think is even more powerful.

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Speaker 2: If this was your sixteen year old daughter, if this

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Speaker 2: was your ten year old, what would you say.

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Speaker 1: If you were the parent? It's a big perspective taking thing,

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Speaker 1: and the kids usually go oh fine, or what would.

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Speaker 2: You unless you're me Because when I was growing up,

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Speaker 2: my parents will tell me even today that I sat

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Speaker 2: there and said, well, when I have children of my own,

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Speaker 2: I will let them do whatever they want to do,

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Speaker 2: when they want to do it.

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Speaker 1: So there's a couple of other things that I think

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Speaker 1: we need to do once we've done their validation stuff

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Speaker 1: and the explaining stuff, we want to acknowledge differences. In

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Speaker 1: other words, we're saying, you know, what what I think

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Speaker 1: is age appropriate and what your friends parents think is

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Speaker 1: age appropriate, it's going to be totally different. Somebody in

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Speaker 1: the Facebook group said, oh, I don't want my kids

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Speaker 1: watching Harry Potter until there are a certain age. We've

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Speaker 1: been through this just with our kids and their cousins.

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Speaker 1: Their cousins have been allowed to watch almost anything, and

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Speaker 1: we're kind of like, you're not watching that until you're seventeen,

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Speaker 1: and their kids have been watching it years earlier. So

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Speaker 1: we just pretty much say everyone has different rules. Because

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Speaker 1: everyone's version of what's okay, what's safe, what's healthy is

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Speaker 1: it's going to be different. I also think it's worth

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Speaker 1: highlighting that your children are only thinking about the parents

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Speaker 1: that are going easier on their kids, then you're going

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Speaker 1: on them. And so there's always going to be strict

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Speaker 1: to parents out there as well. You can say it

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Speaker 1: feels like you're the only one, but I guarantee there's

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Speaker 1: a bunch of parents who are stricter than me as well.

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Speaker 2: I think this is where building relationships with your kid's friends'

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Speaker 2: parents makes a difference, because you actually find out that

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Speaker 2: the things your children keep pushing against and saying, but

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Speaker 2: my friends all get to do it. Once you start

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Speaker 2: having conversations with other parents, you realize that you're actually

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Speaker 2: not on your own. More times than not, there's maybe

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Speaker 2: one person in the group that's allowed to do something

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Speaker 2: more than everybody else, and everyone's going home having the

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Speaker 2: same conversation with.

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Speaker 1: Their Everyone pushes to get to that level. I think

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Speaker 1: it's also worth pointing out, hey, you know what, are

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Speaker 1: you allowed to do things now that you weren't allowed

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Speaker 1: to do a year ago? Okay? Cool, So in this family,

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Speaker 1: we do loosen up the rules as you get older,

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Speaker 1: but you've got to be mature enough and ready, and

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Speaker 1: I promise you the opportunity to do this is coming.

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Speaker 1: We're just not there yet. And then the golden question is,

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Speaker 1: so what do you think we should do. Let's come

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Speaker 1: up with a solution that we can all feel good about.

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Speaker 1: And our effort here is that we've explored what's going on,

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Speaker 1: we've explained our expectations, and now we're empowering our children

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Speaker 1: to develop a way forward in collaboration with us. Someone

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Speaker 1: on Facebook said that they get their kids to put

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Speaker 1: together a business case or a strategy to move the

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Speaker 1: conversation forward. It's the same thing. This is an empowerment

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Speaker 1: thing where the kids have got to think through how

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Speaker 1: do I get the thing that I want in a

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Speaker 1: way that keeps me safe and healthy so my parents

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Speaker 1: are cool with it. The one thing I'll say on

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Speaker 1: this is sometimes you've just got to stand firm. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: shifting position is going to be helpful and healthy, and

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Speaker 1: other times there is just no way that any change

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Speaker 1: can occur. And as the parent, you have got to

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Speaker 1: be discerning. You've got to be strong for me.

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Speaker 2: I think the most important thing out of all of

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Speaker 2: this is that if we're going to engage in this

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Speaker 2: kind of conversation with our children, we actually need to

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Speaker 2: be open to hearing what they have to say, because

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Speaker 2: there are going to be times where our kids are

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Speaker 2: going to give us an argument that actually makes a

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Speaker 2: whole heap of sense, and if we're open to it,

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Speaker 2: we can actually work with them to come up with

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Speaker 2: a solution that's better than the one we had previously

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Speaker 2: because we've done it collaboratively with them.

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Speaker 1: It looks so good and sounds so good and feel

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Speaker 1: so good when as a child you make an argument

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Speaker 1: and your parents who disagree with you look at you

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Speaker 1: and say, that's a really good point. It really builds trust.

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Speaker 1: It builds all the stuff into the relationship that you need.

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Speaker 1: So the kids feel connection and they know that you're

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Speaker 1: actually working with them and for them, And.

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Speaker 2: I think it's about feeling like they're in a democracy

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Speaker 2: as opposed to a dictatorship. Sometimes we have to come

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Speaker 2: down hard and we have to stand firm, but there

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Speaker 2: are going to be lots of times in our relationship

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Speaker 2: where we can actually give a little.

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Speaker 1: So to our anonymous emailer, we hope that these ideas

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Speaker 1: give you some ideas for how to talk with your

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Speaker 1: children about the it's not fair. How come they can

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Speaker 1: do it and I can't do it? There is a

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Speaker 1: strong chair, as I just have to acknowledge the reality

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Speaker 1: there is a very strong chance that if you go

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Speaker 1: through a conversation like this that your child might resent

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Speaker 1: you for having firm boundaries. But sometimes as a parent,

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Speaker 1: that's what's required. Sometimes that's what we have to do.

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Speaker 1: If we do it in autonomy supportive ways, which is

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Speaker 1: what we've talked about in this podcast, will increase the

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Speaker 1: chances that the kids are going to quote unquote get it.

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Speaker 1: Even if it takes until they're in their twenties, they

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Speaker 1: will get it eventually, and I'll thank you for it

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Speaker 1: one day. Just don't tell them that they will. The

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Speaker 1: Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland for Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. For more information about

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Speaker 1: how to make your family happier, please visit us at

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Speaker 1: happyfamilies dot com dot au. Tomorrow on the podcast, we're

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Speaker 1: talking with doctor Amantha Imber about her brand new book,

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Speaker 1: The Health Habit, and how as we dive into the

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Speaker 1: new year and really fire things up, we can get

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Speaker 1: our lives totally on track health wise. Can't wait for

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Speaker 1: that conversation. On the Happy Families podcast, last