1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: I wrote a book a few years ago called Misconnection, 2 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:11,840 Speaker 1: Why your teenage daughter hates You, expects the world and 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:17,400 Speaker 1: needs to talk. When I surveyed and interviewed around four 4 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 1: hundred Australian teenage girls, the overwhelming thing they wanted parents 5 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:25,959 Speaker 1: to know was I just need you to listen to me. 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 1: Today's podcast is about what we're doing wrong and how 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,960 Speaker 1: to get listening right. Hello and welcome to the Happy 8 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Families Podcast. My name is doctor Justin Coulson. It's real 9 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:40,599 Speaker 1: Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. 10 00:00:41,080 --> 00:00:45,920 Speaker 1: And for your weekend listening pleasure, I have an author, facilitator, 11 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:50,839 Speaker 1: speaker NLP. That's Neurolinguistic Programming coach, a man who has 12 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: worked as a successful business consultant, leadership coach, a master's 13 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: degree in communication management. His name is Ross Judd. His 14 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:03,840 Speaker 1: book is called Listening, a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. 15 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,240 Speaker 1: So good to have you on the podcast today, Ross, 16 00:01:07,319 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: Thank you for taking the time out. Here's my first 17 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:13,520 Speaker 1: question for you, why listen? Why listen? Like as parents, 18 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 1: as adults, when we're talking to people, we demand it, 19 00:01:16,520 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: our kids need it. Why listen? 20 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: The short answer is because it's the only way to 21 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,960 Speaker 2: communicate to that person that you understand, and it's the 22 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,560 Speaker 2: only way to connect with them at a deep and 23 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,080 Speaker 2: genuine level. There's a quote that I use a lot 24 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 2: that I got from Stephen Covey that talks about understanding 25 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: how much we crave understanding. It's the deepest hunger of 26 00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,119 Speaker 2: the human heart. And so that ability if we can 27 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 2: learn to listen effectively, and part of that skill needs 28 00:01:47,080 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 2: to be rephrasing what that person said. I call it summarizing. 29 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: If we learn to summarize what that person has said, 30 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 2: we'll then demonstrate to that person that we've understood and 31 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: there's nothing they crave more. 32 00:01:59,760 --> 00:02:03,240 Speaker 1: So what you're saying, I see what I did there. 33 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,600 Speaker 1: There's the Submary right away. I feel like I'm on 34 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,640 Speaker 1: fire already. So what you're saying is that when people 35 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: feel I'm Stephen Covey. I think it was him that 36 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:13,840 Speaker 1: said the greatest human need is to be. 37 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 2: Understood something like that. 38 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 1: Said, Yeah, And what you're really saying is when we 39 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: give somebody the honor of being heard, they know that 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,800 Speaker 1: they matter to us and their life is important, and 41 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 1: that we get where they're coming. 42 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: From exactly, and we're acknowledging them. 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: Walk me through this in a really concrete way. When 44 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: have you listened and seen it make a difference. 45 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 2: There's a great example I use with my daughter. So 46 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 2: one of the things I talk about is that this 47 00:02:44,200 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 2: is a specific context. So the depth of listening we're 48 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 2: talking about is not something you're going to do every day, 49 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 2: day to day. It's too much. So you will need 50 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 2: to look for the signs for is this a little 51 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,480 Speaker 2: bit different? Is there a need here that I can satisfy. 52 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:00,960 Speaker 2: And I had a situation like that with my daughter 53 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:02,919 Speaker 2: where she started hanging around in the door out of 54 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 2: my office, and that was unusual behavior, and that's important 55 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:07,519 Speaker 2: to notice. She normally just wanted to be and she 56 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 2: was about ten years old at the time. So I 57 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:11,840 Speaker 2: got out of my chair sat on the floor because 58 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: I didn't want to be at my desk, and she 59 00:03:14,840 --> 00:03:17,119 Speaker 2: did the same. She came and sat opposite me, and 60 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 2: we looked at each other, and I was determined not 61 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 2: to make any of our normal mistakes, which is to 62 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:25,560 Speaker 2: take over the conversation and start talking. So I just 63 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:30,120 Speaker 2: waited and she eventually started talking. And my objective is 64 00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,959 Speaker 2: to let her talk and get to the point where 65 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 2: I can summarize, and the rule I have is trying 66 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: not to change the direction of this conversation. So I 67 00:03:40,200 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: just encouraged her with phrasers like now, tell me more, Okay, 68 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: what else, whatever, something along those lines, and she eventually 69 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:49,760 Speaker 2: started talking about kids at school that, in her words, 70 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: were being mean to her, and my brain went nuts. 71 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:55,360 Speaker 2: You know, I had all sorts of things in my 72 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: head about bullying, about stuff that had happened to me 73 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: when I was at school, all kinds of stuff. But 74 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: I stayed with her. Now I'll cut this story short. 75 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: That took a while, and I summarized what she was saying, 76 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: and she eventually got to a point where she asked 77 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: for some suggestions with that issue. So I gave her 78 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 2: a couple of suggestions. Have you thought about making other friends? 79 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 2: Do you think you should talk to the teachers? Have 80 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:21,120 Speaker 2: you confronted them about what they're doing? And she'd done 81 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:24,039 Speaker 2: all those things, so this was all under control. She 82 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 2: ten year old. She was on top of it, and 83 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 2: it was a wonderful experience for me to realize just 84 00:04:30,279 --> 00:04:34,799 Speaker 2: who she was, how thoughtful, how well she was managing 85 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 2: that situation. In those suggestions, I've kind of ran out 86 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: of ideas, and she was still asking for suggestions, and 87 00:04:42,160 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 2: I'm kind of looking at her and I thought, okay, 88 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 2: well I've run out of ideas, and so what I 89 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 2: do in that situation is I defer to somebody who's 90 00:04:49,160 --> 00:04:52,359 Speaker 2: smarter than me. So let's ask your mum what she thinks. 91 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 2: And that got a really bad reaction. No no, no, 92 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,640 Speaker 2: no no, Please don't tell mom, Please don't tell mum 93 00:04:58,640 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: about this. So that was another trigger. This time, the 94 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:06,679 Speaker 2: trigger was emotion that Okay, there's something serious going on here, 95 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: and it helped me realize that that opening conversation about 96 00:05:11,120 --> 00:05:14,400 Speaker 2: school that she had under control wasn't the thing that 97 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 2: had caused her to hang around my doorway. It was 98 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 2: now this conversation. So, to keep this story short, what 99 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: happened out of that? That took a while. This was slower, 100 00:05:23,720 --> 00:05:28,960 Speaker 2: she was harder to draw comments out of. Eventually she 101 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 2: opened up that she didn't appreciate some of the playful teasing. 102 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:35,480 Speaker 2: So some of her mother's playful teasing was having an 103 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: adverse effect, and she just didn't feel like she could 104 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 2: talk to her without her mother trivializing it or you know, 105 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,240 Speaker 2: just teasing her or doing something like that, and of 106 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 2: course I knew that was wrong. She absolutely could talk 107 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 2: to her mother, but I couldn't say that, didn't want 108 00:05:50,360 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 2: to disagree, didn't want to take it off course. Eventually 109 00:05:53,279 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 2: she got to a point where she asked me what 110 00:05:55,560 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: I thought she should do about that situation, and we 111 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,400 Speaker 2: worked through a process where events the eye went and 112 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,640 Speaker 2: shared the feedback with her mum. Her mum was in 113 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 2: the bedroom down the hall, and as I got there, 114 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:12,880 Speaker 2: Emily had followed me down the passageway, and anyway, they 115 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:16,359 Speaker 2: ended up reuniting, and it was a wonderful connection that 116 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 2: was reborn between the two of them, and it lasts 117 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,640 Speaker 2: this day and their thickest theason. The daughter I'm talking 118 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:23,840 Speaker 2: about is now in the mid twenties, so this is 119 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 2: a a while ago this story occurred. But a couple 120 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 2: of points to take out of that story and their 121 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: points that I'm trying to emphasize in this book. First 122 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 2: is that when somebody needs to talk, needs to be heard, 123 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: needs to be understood, they will give you some kind 124 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: of clue. So in this case, it was unusual behavior. 125 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,720 Speaker 2: It might be emotion, it might be something else that 126 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 2: you're not doing this with strangers. You're doing this with 127 00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: people that you know, and you'll be able to tell, 128 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:56,720 Speaker 2: so you'll be able to tell that this is a 129 00:06:56,760 --> 00:07:00,360 Speaker 2: bit different. Then one of the rules is in this situation, 130 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 2: they never tell you the real issue. So if you 131 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 2: take the conversation, of course, you'll get basically, if you 132 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: dive into that first issue, do all of our classic mistakes, 133 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 2: you're going to miss that deeper issue that they are 134 00:07:15,120 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: desperate to talk to you about. And so this idea 135 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: of listening in a deep and meaningful way in those moments. 136 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,400 Speaker 2: We're not doing this all the time. We'll do this 137 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 2: whenever we see the opportunity, which might only be once 138 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:29,640 Speaker 2: or twice a year. It might just be once once 139 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 2: a month. If it happened once a month, it would 140 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 2: be happening a lot in my experience. So, yeah, the 141 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 2: point of that story is then when you get to 142 00:07:36,680 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 2: that deeper issue, you create a connection that's just wonderful, 143 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: absolutely wonderful. 144 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: Okay, here's what I pulled out of that number one. 145 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: Just wait. Yes, it's so so common that kids will say, 146 00:07:48,960 --> 00:07:52,720 Speaker 1: my parents aren't really great at listening. They're really great 147 00:07:52,760 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 1: at hearing me say something and then telling me what 148 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: to do or really great at talking. Something that you 149 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,920 Speaker 1: said was that you let her guide the conversation. I'm 150 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: using my words, not yours. There's a phrase that I 151 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: will use when I'm talking to parents about this, and 152 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: that is that we should take the ride, not the wheel. 153 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,720 Speaker 1: She's the one that's steering it. She's the one that's 154 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,000 Speaker 1: determining where to go. Our jobs to sit in the 155 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 1: passenger seat and let them drive, because they will eventually 156 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,520 Speaker 1: eventually drive us to the destination of their choosing the 157 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: one that they really need to get to in their 158 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: own time. And the third thing, actually, there were two 159 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: other things that I picked up as I was listening 160 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: to your story Ross. The first is that the answers 161 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:34,200 Speaker 1: are inside the kids. We've just she'd already figured out 162 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 1: all the answers to the initial issue, but even that 163 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,640 Speaker 1: second issue. As you worked with her, she became willing 164 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,680 Speaker 1: to number one, listen to you, but number two figure 165 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:47,280 Speaker 1: out for herself what felt right, which did mean going 166 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:50,600 Speaker 1: to her mum. But ultimately, this idea that you've come 167 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: back to a couple of times, often when there's a 168 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:55,840 Speaker 1: big thing going on, our children will disguise it, they'll 169 00:08:55,920 --> 00:08:57,839 Speaker 1: hide it. It might be hidden in behavior. It might be 170 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,440 Speaker 1: hidden in false stories, it might be hidden in tired 171 00:09:00,559 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: or I just want to play on my phone. But 172 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,000 Speaker 1: there's that underlying issue and I don't Again, I don't 173 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:09,600 Speaker 1: quite remember the words you used. But I encourage parents 174 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:11,920 Speaker 1: to simply say, Okay, is there anything else you want 175 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 1: to chat about? Is there anything else you want to 176 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:19,559 Speaker 1: tell me? Because wow, there's always that thing there, but 177 00:09:19,920 --> 00:09:22,000 Speaker 1: listening to what you said as well. Not everything needs 178 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:23,959 Speaker 1: to be emotion coached. One of the things that I 179 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:27,440 Speaker 1: see happening with the gentle parenting craze that has swept 180 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: across families over the last few years is this feeling 181 00:09:30,720 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 1: that every time a child has an emotion, we need 182 00:09:32,679 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 1: to get down and try to unpack and therapeutically address 183 00:09:36,120 --> 00:09:38,120 Speaker 1: everything that's happening in their lives. And sometimes it's okay 184 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: as a parent, say come on, let's just go like 185 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:43,160 Speaker 1: you don't have to do this all the time. 186 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 2: I totally agree, And it's hard for parents. The you know, 187 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: when that child is born, they are completely dependent on you, 188 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,200 Speaker 2: so you are all things to that individual, and then 189 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: there's a whole process they're going to go through, is 190 00:09:57,280 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: they evolve and become their own person, and I think 191 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:04,240 Speaker 2: one of the challenges for parents is to be absolutely 192 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:07,560 Speaker 2: enthralled by that. Like I would encourage parents to look 193 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,320 Speaker 2: for that, you know that learn about them, and these 194 00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:12,800 Speaker 2: conversations are the best way to learn about them. I 195 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 2: learned so much in that example about my daughter and 196 00:10:16,360 --> 00:10:20,200 Speaker 2: just how capable and assured and you know, how wonderful 197 00:10:20,320 --> 00:10:23,360 Speaker 2: she is. But it's hard because you know, I want 198 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,240 Speaker 2: to be the you know, we're in control just about 199 00:10:25,280 --> 00:10:27,520 Speaker 2: every aspect of their life early in their life, and 200 00:10:27,559 --> 00:10:31,120 Speaker 2: then we're giving up that control. But the idea is 201 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,719 Speaker 2: we're creating a human being, and we should be absolutely 202 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: fascinated by that human being because they're just amazing. 203 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,600 Speaker 1: His name is Ross Judd. His book is called Listening, 204 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. Let's talk about the 205 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: biggest mistakes parents make when it comes to listening. We've 206 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: already sort of addressed several of them, and you just 207 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,000 Speaker 1: raised another one as you talk talked about control. But 208 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:04,040 Speaker 1: if you were to put together your list of the 209 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,199 Speaker 1: top five things to stop doing when you're supposed to 210 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:08,920 Speaker 1: be listening, what would you. 211 00:11:08,840 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: Describe top five things when you're supposed to be listening? 212 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 2: I'll come back. First is recognize the context. So listening 213 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,280 Speaker 2: for me, we use the word listening, We just use 214 00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 2: that one word or you know, one hundred different contexts. 215 00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 2: And first is recognize the context. Is this different? Have 216 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:32,480 Speaker 2: they behaved differently? Do we need a different approach, are 217 00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 2: they in a mood? Whatever it might be, is this different? So, 218 00:11:37,840 --> 00:11:40,960 Speaker 2: and then make your decisions about what you need to 219 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 2: do based on the context. So, if you're listening and 220 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 2: you want to get to that deeper issue, then you've 221 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,479 Speaker 2: got to stop almost everything that you do, asking questions, 222 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:55,120 Speaker 2: telling stories. You know, we love to share our I 223 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:59,880 Speaker 2: had that experience, you know, to share those stories, being opinionated, 224 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,080 Speaker 2: telling them what they should do. The action planning. I've 225 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:05,839 Speaker 2: even in workshops talked about this idea of getting to 226 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 2: the deeper issue and had the action planning. It was 227 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:15,800 Speaker 2: a guy specialists. That's going to take too long, you're kidding, right, 228 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 2: like just getting to the wanting to just resolve and 229 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:20,959 Speaker 2: be effective and get it done. All of these are 230 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,319 Speaker 2: mistakes trying to solve that first problem. For all of 231 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:28,280 Speaker 2: its mistake, the only thing that works in this setting 232 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 2: is listen, invite, and then summarize what they're saying it, 233 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,680 Speaker 2: keep it simple, repeat back what they're saying, and do 234 00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 2: your best not to do anything that changes the direction 235 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:39,800 Speaker 2: of the conversation. 236 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,840 Speaker 1: Are there any other big mistakes that you see parents 237 00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: or couples make when it comes to dealing with emotional 238 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,199 Speaker 1: conversations or just even I know you said we're talking 239 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: about a deeper form of listening, but even listening in general, 240 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: anything else sort of stand out to ross? 241 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, look, absolutely, And it can all come down to 242 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,200 Speaker 2: one thing. What happens in the human in our system 243 00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 2: is that when somebody else talks, our brain talks, right, 244 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,440 Speaker 2: and it talks and you know this constantly. Yeah, I 245 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 2: mean the stats I've seen is that our brain can 246 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,840 Speaker 2: think at ten times the speed that someone else can talk. So, 247 00:13:16,960 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 2: just while I'm saying this sentence, you've had ten other thoughts, right, 248 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: And some of that will be your experience, some of 249 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: that will be other people you've interviewed, Some of that 250 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:26,640 Speaker 2: will be all sorts of things. That is just the 251 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 2: biggest problem that we have because it generates all of 252 00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 2: the big mistakes. And so whatever it might be, even 253 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 2: if you're in the kitchen and the kid says something, 254 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: your brain will react and go down a track, or 255 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 2: your partner says something and your brain reacts and goes 256 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 2: down a track, and you could be completely fabricating something 257 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 2: that just doesn't exist, that issue of your inner thoughts 258 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 2: going the way they go. 259 00:13:51,320 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 1: You know, it's just Yeah, as a compulsive communicator, which 260 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: I am, interviewing people on my podcast is one of 261 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,120 Speaker 1: the hardest things that I have to do. And the 262 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: reason that it's so hard is because I'm forced to listen. 263 00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,199 Speaker 1: And I have to listen because otherwise I miss something 264 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: that you say, which means the conversation doesn't flow, or 265 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,080 Speaker 1: I ask a question that you've already answered that there's 266 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 1: somebody and yet I'm listening to what you're saying and 267 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,520 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, Oh, there's a great line, or there's a 268 00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: great quote, or there's a great story, or there's a 269 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: great principle that I could share that would add to 270 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,880 Speaker 1: this or let me there's this experience or I mean, 271 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: my mind is constantly and it's also hang on how 272 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,640 Speaker 1: we're going for time and at the level the audio levels, right, 273 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: there's there's the multitasking. Monkey brain goes absolutely bonkers when 274 00:14:42,280 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: we're dealing with emotion. On top of that, like if 275 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 1: we're talking to one of our kids, we're talking to 276 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 1: her husband and wife, our partner. It's it's so hard 277 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,600 Speaker 1: to stay in the moment, isn't it. It's so hard 278 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,640 Speaker 1: to be right there and simply focused on what they're 279 00:14:56,680 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: saying and letting them say it. It's got to be 280 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,160 Speaker 1: on the hardest, and especially with kids or a partner, 281 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:03,240 Speaker 1: to not take control. 282 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 2: I mean, I would say there's probably not many things 283 00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,600 Speaker 2: that are harder to do in our experience, like as humans, 284 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 2: that has to be one of the hardest things that 285 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 2: we could ever do. That ability to just keep your 286 00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:23,920 Speaker 2: mind out of the equation and focus on what they're 287 00:15:23,920 --> 00:15:28,320 Speaker 2: saying is just incredibly difficult. And the only way I've 288 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: personally found to do it is by this concept of summarizing. 289 00:15:34,280 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 2: So when I really need to listen to someone, it's 290 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,960 Speaker 2: like a conscious thought process that almost hurts, you know. 291 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: I'm concentrating on what they're saying and repeating it back 292 00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 2: in my head so I can repeat it back when 293 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 2: they're finished, and summarize what they've said when they're finished. 294 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:54,600 Speaker 2: It's the only way I've found to quieten all of 295 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:56,960 Speaker 2: I refer to them as monkeys as well. It's like 296 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,800 Speaker 2: you've got monkeys chattering away in your brain. It's the 297 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: only way to quiet those voices is. 298 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 1: Just let's talk about that summarizing thing for just a moment. 299 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: It's clearly key to effective listening. You've highlighted it, you've 300 00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:15,760 Speaker 1: written about it in the book, and yet it feels 301 00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:23,280 Speaker 1: so techniquey, it feels so strategy ish. Now, I also 302 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 1: have taught this many, many many times to people and 303 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: also help them to make it feel not false or 304 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,040 Speaker 1: not feel like a technique. Psychologists would normally call it 305 00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: active listening. That is, somebody says something and then you 306 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:40,840 Speaker 1: say it back to them. What have you found to 307 00:16:40,920 --> 00:16:44,720 Speaker 1: be an effective way to help people to share that 308 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: summary in a way that doesn't feel like a technique, 309 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:51,440 Speaker 1: that doesn't feel false, but rather feels like a genuine 310 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,479 Speaker 1: contribution and even a gift to the conversation. 311 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. Great, So look I have two responses to that, 312 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 2: and you're right, this skill has been around a long time. 313 00:17:02,240 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 2: Active listening paraphrasing Stephen Covey call that faithful translation. There's 314 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:12,240 Speaker 2: lots of names for it. My first comment in response 315 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:15,159 Speaker 2: to that is, you have to remember their brain is 316 00:17:15,480 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: very occupied. They're thinking through what they're saying, they're saying 317 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:23,880 Speaker 2: it slowly, they won't be as sensitive to it feeling 318 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,960 Speaker 2: like a technique as you think. Most of the time, 319 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 2: they don't actually notice you notice, like if it genuinely 320 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: is a technique, you're doing it because you've learned it 321 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:37,120 Speaker 2: as a technique, you're feeling that. But they won't be necessarily. 322 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:39,640 Speaker 2: Their brain's pretty occupied with all the stuff that's going 323 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,720 Speaker 2: on in their head. And then if you repeat something 324 00:17:42,760 --> 00:17:45,959 Speaker 2: back to them that vaguely resembles what they've said, they 325 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: will appreciate it so much. And in my experience, the 326 00:17:49,520 --> 00:17:53,400 Speaker 2: minute you start summarizing or paraphrasing, they'll if you get 327 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,719 Speaker 2: it slightly wrong, they'll jump in, cut you off and 328 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 2: correct you because they want you to understand. They're desperty 329 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,160 Speaker 2: you to understand. So that's the first one. The second 330 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 2: response to that is, it's actually why I just use 331 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:08,160 Speaker 2: the term summarizing. That the most effective way I've found. 332 00:18:08,359 --> 00:18:11,360 Speaker 2: And I'm kind of hesitant to say this, but I 333 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:16,400 Speaker 2: like what I call a summary question. So it's actually 334 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 2: a check as opposed to a technique or I'm just 335 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:21,359 Speaker 2: repeating back what you've said. It's more of a So 336 00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 2: you're saying that X Y Z. Now you're saying that 337 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:28,520 Speaker 2: couples will struggle with this kind of technique, or somebody 338 00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,320 Speaker 2: using this technique may feel like it's a bit false 339 00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:31,800 Speaker 2: or fake. 340 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:35,520 Speaker 1: And my response is yes, and then you know. 341 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 2: Right, exactly, And so when you phrase it as a question, 342 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,920 Speaker 2: the person does respond very naturally, and it feels natural. Now, 343 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: the reason I hesitate to suggest a question is because 344 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:48,359 Speaker 2: the minute people get the chance to ask a question, 345 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 2: they tend to then add other information into that question 346 00:18:51,680 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 2: and take the conversation a different direction. So that's the risk. 347 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: The summary question is beautiful, it works very well, but 348 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:02,680 Speaker 2: you've got to be very disap and about just summarizing 349 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: and not adding in. Like you know, if your child 350 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 2: came and said, oh, I'm thinking about dropping out of university, 351 00:19:09,359 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 2: and okay, so you're thinking about dropping out of you 352 00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 2: any what else are you going to do? Suddenly, now 353 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 2: we're down that track, that's right. 354 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 1: And you'led and already yeah, exactly. 355 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:18,000 Speaker 2: Yes. 356 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,320 Speaker 1: May I add one other strategy that I encourage chorus 357 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:23,280 Speaker 1: to do. Tell me what you think of this one 358 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: and tell me if this if this fits well with 359 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 1: your model. I encourage parents to say what they see, 360 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:35,040 Speaker 1: which is shorthand for essentially describing what they've just encountered. 361 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: So if we go to the I want to drop 362 00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:40,040 Speaker 1: out of school situation, I'm going to look at my 363 00:19:40,119 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: child and say, it sounds like school's really frustrating for 364 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 1: you at the moment, or it sounds like you've had 365 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,359 Speaker 1: enough of this environment and you'd rather be anywhere but there. 366 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: And so I'm saying what I'm seeing. If I walk 367 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:52,800 Speaker 1: into the room and the kids are fighting, I'm going 368 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:54,680 Speaker 1: to walk in and say, I can see two very 369 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: upset children in front of me right now. And so 370 00:19:57,560 --> 00:19:59,919 Speaker 1: I'm I'm not sitting boundaries, I'm not derailing. I'm just 371 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: saying what I see, which is kind of a It's 372 00:20:01,880 --> 00:20:03,919 Speaker 1: a summary of where we are just now, and it 373 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 1: gives the kids an opportunity to give me the feedback 374 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: and to me where they're going. How does that? How 375 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: does that work for you? And is there anything that 376 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: you don't like about it? 377 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:15,880 Speaker 2: So it works really well, And yeah, I would probably 378 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:19,480 Speaker 2: use a slightly different approach to for me, it's you're 379 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,360 Speaker 2: taking a little bit of a guess and that may 380 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 2: or may not be accurate. 381 00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:25,560 Speaker 1: But as you said before, they always correct you if 382 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: you're wrong. 383 00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 2: Correct, that's right. And so that's why it's not such 384 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 2: a big deal. And the fact that you're there and 385 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,360 Speaker 2: you're engaged and you're having a guess. I emphasize that 386 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 2: big time. Don't worry about it if you get it wrong, 387 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:36,960 Speaker 2: because they are desperate to correct you. 388 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:38,600 Speaker 1: That's right every time. 389 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,199 Speaker 2: So that example you used where you know I can 390 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,040 Speaker 2: see some yet you're frustrated, I would just they came 391 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 2: and said, I'm thinking about dropping out of school. I 392 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 2: would keep it much more open. So, okay, tell me more. 393 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:50,640 Speaker 1: Tell me more. Yeah, that's what you're thinking of. Yeah, 394 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: yeahudn't use it in that context, to be honest, but yeah, yeah, Russ, 395 00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: let's still a lightning round. I have a handful of fun. Well, 396 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: it's a provocative and some of them are quite thoughtful 397 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,479 Speaker 1: questions for you, And what I'd love you to do 398 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: is answer them in one or two words or sentences, 399 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 1: keep it really short. People really struggle with this. I'm 400 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,720 Speaker 1: not gonna lie, but let's see how we go. What's 401 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,679 Speaker 1: the weirdest thing that you've learned by truly listening to someone. 402 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,960 Speaker 2: The weirdest thing is the way people interpret information and 403 00:21:22,040 --> 00:21:24,639 Speaker 2: Sometimes I hear them answer a question that it's like 404 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,399 Speaker 2: sorry or tell me something, and I'm like, I would 405 00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 2: never have interpreted. 406 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: That like that. Yeah, that's not the question I asked. 407 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,120 Speaker 1: How did you. 408 00:21:31,119 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 2: End up there? How did you get there? Yeah? 409 00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:38,040 Speaker 1: If listening was a superpower, what would be its kryptonite? 410 00:21:38,680 --> 00:21:39,040 Speaker 2: Talking? 411 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: Hmm? Okay, I would go with tech, but I think 412 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:47,199 Speaker 1: you're probably right with talking between your ears and your mouth. 413 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,440 Speaker 1: Which one do you think most people need to upgrade? 414 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:51,959 Speaker 2: There is? 415 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: I had a feeling you'd say that, Yeah, what's a 416 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,600 Speaker 1: sign that someone is pretending to listen but actually isn't. 417 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: Look at it their phone or doing anything that's distracting 418 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 2: that is a distraction for them? Or if you watch them, 419 00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 2: you can just see they're busting to say something right right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 420 00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:12,680 Speaker 2: that's that's a clue. 421 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: They're not in the going ha ha. But they're really 422 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:17,920 Speaker 1: almost almost jumping into your lap to talk. 423 00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And that means something's triggered in their brain 424 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 2: and they just want to say it. 425 00:22:23,080 --> 00:22:25,119 Speaker 1: I hope you like this. Next lightning round question, this 426 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 1: was my favorite one of all. If you could magically 427 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,480 Speaker 1: make everyone in the world really listen, to one person 428 00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:36,120 Speaker 1: for five minutes. Who would you want them to listen 429 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 1: to their partner? 430 00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 2: Huh, that's my first thought. It's their partner. Yep. 431 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: What's the most dangerous phrase that indicates that someone has 432 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: stopped listening? 433 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:48,879 Speaker 2: Whatever? 434 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. I 435 00:22:53,359 --> 00:22:55,919 Speaker 1: was going with, if you would just listen to me 436 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,680 Speaker 1: for a moment. But whatever is that? That's there's such 437 00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 1: an awfulness to that one. How would our political landscape 438 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: change if politicians were physically unable to speak until they 439 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,320 Speaker 1: had fully understood the other's argument. 440 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 2: I would love that so much. I actually think at 441 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,520 Speaker 2: a deep level, if we listened to each other, and 442 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:23,480 Speaker 2: particularly in politics, we could find a much better solution. 443 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,840 Speaker 2: I actually think the political landscape would be that they 444 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 2: would actually work towards what's best for the country rather 445 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:30,760 Speaker 2: than what's best for them and their party. 446 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: Here's my last lightning round question for you. What is 447 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 1: one sound that you wish more people would stop and 448 00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:40,240 Speaker 1: truly listen to? 449 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:46,680 Speaker 2: Oh, one sound. It would be some sort of vocal utterance, 450 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 2: and it would be something hesitant, like a sound that 451 00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 2: just but I can't put it down to one specific sound, 452 00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 2: but something that's unusual for that person and makes it 453 00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: clear that they're hesitant, or that they're unsure of themselves, 454 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,639 Speaker 2: or that there's something else here could just be or 455 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: something like that. Yeah. Sorry, that's not a great answer. Ross. 456 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: This is my last question for you as we discuss 457 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:19,119 Speaker 1: your book, Listening a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. How 458 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: can we listen better? If I'm a mum or a dad, 459 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: a husband or a wife or a partner listen to 460 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,399 Speaker 1: this podcast interview. There's already been a whole lot of 461 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: really useful nuggets, but how can we listen better? 462 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:36,240 Speaker 2: I would put that in three steps. First one is, 463 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,040 Speaker 2: don't try to do it all the time. Don't try 464 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:41,600 Speaker 2: to listen better every single minute of every day. That's 465 00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: just late. You know, that's just too hard. So look 466 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 2: for and recognize the moments. Look for those special moments 467 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,879 Speaker 2: when you can tell there's a deeper issue. There's a 468 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 2: whole chapter dedicated to explaining what they are. And there's 469 00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 2: lots of clues and hints that people give you, and 470 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 2: the most common one is either emotion or that they're 471 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 2: behaving in an unusual way. Second one is, then when 472 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:09,760 Speaker 2: you engage in that moment, just engage just be quiet, 473 00:25:10,960 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: shut up, let them talk, and just use neutral tell 474 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: me more, and then when they start talking, summarize. That 475 00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 2: would be it for me. Three simple steps. Recognize this 476 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:25,520 Speaker 2: is a moment when I can do something different and 477 00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 2: really connect. Just engage with that person. Put away the phone, 478 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,199 Speaker 2: put away the laptop, stop whatever you're doing, and then summarize. 479 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 2: When they start opening up, summarize what they're saying. 480 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,880 Speaker 1: Ross Jad the author of Listening, a Guide to building 481 00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,679 Speaker 1: Deeper Connections. It's been a pleasure listening to you today 482 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 1: on the Happy Families podcast. 483 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:46,040 Speaker 2: Thank you, It's been awesome. 484 00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:48,960 Speaker 1: If you'd like more information about Ross's book, Listening, we 485 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:51,560 Speaker 1: will link to it in the show notes. The Happy 486 00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,720 Speaker 1: Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. 487 00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 1: If you'd like more information and more resources to make 488 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,840 Speaker 1: your family happier, check out Ross's book or visit Happy 489 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: Families dot com dot a u mm hmm.