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Speaker 1: We certainly have got a busy morning lined up for you.

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Speaker 1: And joining me on the line is Paul mchue, the

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Speaker 1: president of the Police Association. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Paul, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Paul. Of course we have got you on the show

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Speaker 1: to talk about this highly anticipated survey and I am

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Speaker 1: going to get to that in just a couple of moments.

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Speaker 1: But as we've been speaking about this morning, some terrible

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Speaker 1: vision has emerged. It's quite unbelievable really, from Woolworths CBD

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Speaker 1: late yesterday. It is a big group of people engaged

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Speaker 1: in what appears to be a brawl. It looks as

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Speaker 1: though somebody jumps over a counter and steals a knife

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Speaker 1: from one of the cafes there before lunging at somebody else,

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Speaker 1: all in broad daylight at four o'clock in the afternoon. Paul,

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Speaker 1: have you seen that vision and what was your reaction?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Look, I just had a very quick glance this morning

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Speaker 2: at that vision after becoming aware of it and another horrific,

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Speaker 2: disgraceful act of violent behavior in our community. And feel

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Speaker 2: extremely sorry for you know, the public, and imagine the

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Speaker 2: workers there who would have been fearing for their lives

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Speaker 2: when they saw that sort of behavior occurring right in

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Speaker 2: front of them. You know, imagine the people who may

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Speaker 2: have just picked their children up from school and headed

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Speaker 2: there to get some groceries at four o'clock in the afternoon.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's just disgraceful behavior and sadly all too

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Speaker 2: common in our community at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Paul, That's what it feels like. You know, I know

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Speaker 1: that people listening to the show in Alla Springs are

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Speaker 1: probably thinking to themselves, well, you know this has happened

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Speaker 1: to us plenty of times, but in our CBD, in

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Speaker 1: a capital city of Australia, it is obscene behavior.

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Speaker 2: It's not great indictment on wanting people to come to

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Speaker 2: the territories when that sort of footage is shown, and

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Speaker 2: no doubt that it'll make its way far and wide

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Speaker 2: through social media channels. But you know, by and larger course,

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Speaker 2: we have a great place up here in the territory.

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Speaker 2: But when you see that sort of behavior and that

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Speaker 2: complete disregard for society and safety in society and putting

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Speaker 2: people in harms, that cannot be tolerated. And it will

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Speaker 2: be really interesting to see what the government's response is

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Speaker 2: to this.

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Speaker 1: It certainly will be Paul, can I ask last week

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Speaker 1: we've had quite an extensive discussion. It's certainly not the

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Speaker 1: first one we've had about anti social behavior in our CBD.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is another example of it. Do we

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Speaker 1: have enough police to deal with this?

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Speaker 2: Well, certainly, the feedback into our office is we are

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Speaker 2: lacking numbers, certainly in Darwen Station. We know across the

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Speaker 2: board in the Greater Dawen area, we are certainly down

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Speaker 2: on numbers. And I know COVID has certainly impacted like

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Speaker 2: every workplace across the board.

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Speaker 3: But it's not just that.

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Speaker 2: It's vacant positions at Aren't Field, and it's also you know,

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Speaker 2: we've got plenty of police out doing secondments in other areas,

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Speaker 2: including some remote stations.

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Speaker 3: So you know, we really need to have a look

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Speaker 3: at this.

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Speaker 2: We've raised this specific issue with the Minister as recently.

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Speaker 3: As last week.

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Speaker 2: The feedback is strong from our members that quite frankly,

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Speaker 2: they just don't have enough to fill their rosters at

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Speaker 2: the moment. And we know it's a topical issue, but

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Speaker 2: it's one that won't go away until we actually come

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Speaker 2: up with a solution.

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Speaker 1: Well, and Paul, it's one of those ones that for

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Speaker 1: our listeners is probably a bit confusing as well, because

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Speaker 1: you know, then we had the assistant commissioner on the

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Speaker 1: show last week saying that, you know, you can have

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Speaker 1: as many police as you like on the beat, but

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Speaker 1: there's still issues with alcohol and we're still going to

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Speaker 1: have concerns as a result of those issues as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, I mean I don't necessarily disagree in terms

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Speaker 2: of you know, I mean that incident for example in Willies,

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, police, we're unlikely to be able

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Speaker 2: to prevent that. I mean, they may have been able

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Speaker 2: to get there as quick as possible, but some things

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Speaker 2: are unpreventable. But what you want to see as a

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Speaker 2: strong police presence across the board, you know, I'm sure

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Speaker 2: the community want to see that, and I.

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Speaker 3: Know the police themselves get frustrated. Certainly. The feedback we

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Speaker 3: get is they obviously.

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Speaker 2: Want to be out there in that community doing that

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Speaker 2: proactive engagement with the community, but quite frankly, sometimes I

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Speaker 2: just don't have the numbers and they are just simply

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Speaker 2: working every shift, job to job without the to do that.

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Speaker 1: It is a real concern and one which I've no

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Speaker 1: doubt is going to pop up in this survey. I

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Speaker 1: understand that the survey into police confidence and also support

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Speaker 1: for the Police Commissioner Jamie Chalker went out late yesterday.

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Speaker 1: It is going to enable rank and file officers to

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Speaker 1: have their say on issues which have plagued the force

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Speaker 1: in recent months. Paul just confirming it did go out yesterday.

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Speaker 1: How many officers does that go out too?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Okatie.

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Speaker 2: Obviously there's a lot of media interest and there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of community interest.

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Speaker 3: But you know, this is a survey from for our membership.

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Speaker 3: This did go out yesterday.

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Speaker 2: It's gone out to over sixteen hundred of our members,

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Speaker 2: which of course is the majority of the police force

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Speaker 2: throughout the entire territory. It went out yesterday. It's open

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Speaker 2: for two weeks. It is a confidential survey and you

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Speaker 2: know we won't know the results of that for a

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Speaker 2: fortnight or so until that's all been collated.

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Speaker 1: All right, what exactly did it ask?

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Speaker 2: Very short and sweet, if you like to say, it's

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Speaker 2: just simply eight questions. There was just simply a focus. Obviously,

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Speaker 2: we all know that people want to know in terms

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Speaker 2: of the confidence in their leader, the Commissioner of Police.

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Speaker 2: We've asked a question about that, obviously, in relation to that,

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Speaker 2: we've also asked specific reasons behind that. We want them

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Speaker 2: to identify what reasons they want to put forward as

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Speaker 2: to why they may or may not have confidence in

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Speaker 2: the commissioner. And then very quickly it goes into some

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Speaker 2: really key topical issues such as do we have enough police?

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Speaker 2: And what do you think the reasons are for yes

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Speaker 2: or no? What's them morale like? And of course the

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Speaker 2: embarrassing wage freeze offer that's been put on the table

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Speaker 2: to our members.

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Speaker 3: That's all. It is very short, short and succinct.

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Speaker 1: Paul, I know that in previ issues you and I

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Speaker 1: have spoken about the police survey. That then comes out,

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Speaker 1: as I understand it, at the annual conference is that

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Speaker 1: what this one is.

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Speaker 2: Well, this will be discussed at annual conference. So the

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Speaker 2: majority of the questions in this are almost the identical

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Speaker 2: question we asked last year, because we want some comparative

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Speaker 2: data to be able to have a look and say,

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Speaker 2: are our police still feeling the same as they did

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Speaker 2: twelve months ago? Because you know, back then, we know

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Speaker 2: many of them, for example, already said we didn't have

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Speaker 2: enough police, gave us some reasons why. So we want

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Speaker 2: to compare the data this year and then of course

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Speaker 2: if that is the case, then it's really it'll be

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Speaker 2: over to the government and the commissioner to say, Okay,

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Speaker 2: this is an issue, and I know the commissioner has

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Speaker 2: put out a statement saying he wants to know the reasons,

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Speaker 2: so we will provide all this to the government, the minister,

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Speaker 2: the commissioner, and we want to sit down collectively and go, well,

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Speaker 2: what does this mean. How are we going to fix

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Speaker 2: these issues?

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Speaker 3: If it still is an issue this year?

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Speaker 1: Well, why do you think that it is so important

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Speaker 1: to ask those questions? You know, if the rank and

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Speaker 1: file come back and say that they don't have confidence

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Speaker 1: in the police commissioner, why is it important to know

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Speaker 1: the reasons why?

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean if you don't know the reasons why,

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Speaker 2: you don't know how to rectify the issue. And you know,

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Speaker 2: because sometimes confidence in leadership come down to many other factors,

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Speaker 2: such as resourcing. For example, I mean, one of the

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Speaker 2: one of the key drivers behind low morale, behind mental health,

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Speaker 2: fatigue and well being is not having enough police to

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Speaker 2: simply do the job. You fix one of those issues,

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Speaker 2: you're going to fix a whole bunch of other issues.

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Speaker 2: So it's really important to understand why these why these

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Speaker 2: motions will put forward through our regional meetings and then

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Speaker 2: be able to sit down with government and the commission

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Speaker 2: and so how are we going.

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Speaker 3: To fix it?

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Speaker 1: So, Paul, what is going to happen here? If you've

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Speaker 1: got a large majority of the rank and file that

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Speaker 1: come back and say that they don't have confidence in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Police Commissioner.

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Speaker 2: Well, we've previously explained we don't employ mister Chalker. It's

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Speaker 2: an appointment, and you know that'll be that'll be information,

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Speaker 2: as I've said, that we provide to the government and

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Speaker 2: then you know, obviously we can't anticipate what the results

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Speaker 2: will be. We'll just have to wait and see for

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Speaker 2: a fortnight's time. But you know, quite frankly, all these

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Speaker 2: results will be available to both the Missioner and the

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Speaker 2: government and then we'll have to wait for those to

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Speaker 2: come in to work out what the next step is.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it will be a concern though, if you

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Speaker 1: do have a large percentage of the rank and file

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Speaker 1: saying they don't have confidence in the Police Commissioner and

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Speaker 1: in the executive, it's going to really put with the

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Speaker 1: Police Association. I would say in a difficult position if

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Speaker 1: then the government isn't prepared to take any action.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, obviously that'll be That's why the reasons behind

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Speaker 2: this are so important, and it's something we will discuss

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Speaker 2: at our annual conference in three weeks time.

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Speaker 3: We'll have a range.

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Speaker 2: Of delegates there from around the territory. We're want to

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Speaker 2: provide the feedback and the details and the results of

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Speaker 2: the survey to them, let them have their discussion. The

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Speaker 2: Commissioner has already agreed with his deputies to come to

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Speaker 2: our conference this year and sit down and have a

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Speaker 2: good discussion with all of the delegates from around the

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Speaker 2: territory and we welcome that and obviously we'll be frank

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Speaker 2: and honest with him at that conversation.

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Speaker 1: Well, is the aim of this survey based on the

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Speaker 1: questions and the fact that you are, you know, not

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Speaker 1: only asking if people have confidence in the Commissioner, but

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Speaker 1: then following up with the reasons why they may not

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Speaker 1: have confidence with the Commissioner and the executive or the

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Speaker 1: reasons that they do have confidence. Is the aim of

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Speaker 1: that rather than a situation where where the Commissioner you know,

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Speaker 1: may not be able to stay in that role if

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Speaker 1: if there isn't the confidence of the rank and file.

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Speaker 1: Is the aim then to with the answers from that

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Speaker 1: survey and and you know, with the reasons why they

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Speaker 1: don't have confidence if that's the case, to keep him

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Speaker 1: in the role and try and rectify those issues.

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Speaker 2: Well, I mean, I don't know. I mean, we can't

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Speaker 2: speculate at this stage. But obviously if a majority of

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Speaker 2: members come back and say they don't have confidence in

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Speaker 2: the Commissioner, that will be a discussion with the government

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Speaker 2: about what that means. But of course the obviously the

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Speaker 2: other I guess factored to it all is if if

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Speaker 2: the majority of our membership come back and say we

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Speaker 2: simply don't have enough police.

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Speaker 3: Is extremely low.

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Speaker 2: These are issues that the government can fix. These are

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Speaker 2: issues the commissioner can fix. But in terms of the

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Speaker 2: confidence in the commission well, that'll be a discussion with government.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, it's going to be very interesting to

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Speaker 1: see how it all pans out. I think every year

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Speaker 1: it's interesting to see the results of this survey or

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Speaker 1: similar surveys, but particularly this year. What data is that

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Speaker 1: conference happening and is that when the survey results will

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Speaker 1: come through?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, obviously conference this year is around the eighteenth to

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Speaker 2: nineteenth of August, so only a few weeks away, and

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Speaker 2: our survey closes on the ninth of August.

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 1: One of the other things that's certainly been bubbling along, Paul,

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Speaker 1: is the alcohol policy and the lifting of alcohol restrictions

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Speaker 1: in some of those remote communities. Were large number of

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Speaker 1: those remote communities, only seven deciding to opt in or

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Speaker 1: opt out. I can't remember exactly what the wording is now,

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Speaker 1: it's been quite confusing, but deciding to keep their restrictions

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Speaker 1: in place. How are things going from a police perspective?

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Speaker 3: Not well, really, Katie.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know this was always going to be

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Speaker 2: the case. I mean, what we've seen here is a

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Speaker 2: flick of the switch to you know, I guess conditions

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Speaker 2: from twenty odd years ago where alcohol did flow quite

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Speaker 2: a bit, quite a bit free than what it has

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Speaker 2: previously over the lasted fifteen years or so, with a

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Speaker 2: stronger futures legislation. Feedback straight into our office was an

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Speaker 2: increase in domestic violence, an increase in alcohol related job attendance.

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Speaker 3: So none of that was a surprise.

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Speaker 2: And we all know that alcohol is a driver for

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Speaker 2: our violence in our community. So it's a really disappointing

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Speaker 2: step the government took.

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Speaker 1: Wow, so that quickly there's already been an increase in

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Speaker 1: DV and also in police call outs.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look overnight essentially. I mean, you know, you can't

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Speaker 2: hide the facts. The facts are in. Alcohol is available

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Speaker 2: at a far easier rate than it was previously. We

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Speaker 2: all for that have been that have been here for

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Speaker 2: a very long time. We know what those horrible days

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Speaker 2: of their eighties and nineties were like, you know, with

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Speaker 2: the amounts of alcohol related harm. We know the government

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Speaker 2: themselves is the government been in six.

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Speaker 3: Years now, Katie.

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Speaker 2: Five years ago they commissioned a review into our whole

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Speaker 2: related matters in the territory. And five years ago they

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Speaker 2: were told what they had to do about this legislation.

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Speaker 2: And we want to know, we want to know as

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Speaker 2: an association what they did about recommendations in that review

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Speaker 2: when it comes to consulting with town, camps and communities

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Speaker 2: about the ending of the Stronger Futures legislation, because they're

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Speaker 2: putting the blame on federal government and everyone else. They

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Speaker 2: commission a report five years ago. Have they fulfilled their

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Speaker 2: obligations in it? And if not, why not?

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Speaker 1: Well we are due to catch up with the independent

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Speaker 1: Member for our lun Robin Lanley, in a few minutes time.

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Speaker 1: I know that she's calling for this to be halted. Paul,

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Speaker 1: what are your thoughts?

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Speaker 2: Well, we made our position quite clear back in May.

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Speaker 2: We took the step to join together with numerous other

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Speaker 2: representative bodies, including the Original Medical Services Alliance Congress, NAJA,

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Speaker 2: the People Alcohol Action Coalition. We issued a statement back

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Speaker 2: then asking and pleading with the government to just simply

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Speaker 2: press the pause button and ensure consultation took place, rather

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Speaker 2: than simply flick the switch and then try and consult

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Speaker 2: and then try and expect people are going to do

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Speaker 2: the right thing and hopefully opt in to extending these restrictions.

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Speaker 2: But we all know that was never going to happen,

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Speaker 2: so our positions clear. It should have been paused and

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Speaker 2: there should have been a lot more work done with

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Speaker 2: the community and the police themselves. Of course, police and

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Speaker 2: health are the first and foremost responders to all the

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Speaker 2: harm that comes from the alcohol flowing in our community,

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Speaker 2: and we know more has come out since these legislation

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Speaker 2: changes took place.

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Speaker 1: Well, I am going to have to get ready to

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Speaker 1: wrap up, but just very quickly what of the roles

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Speaker 1: then of those palis in Alice Springs and some of

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Speaker 1: those other locations.

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Speaker 2: How they going now, Well, it's a difficult challenge for them.

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Speaker 2: We're already down on significant numbers for parleys in Alice

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Speaker 2: and now this legislation means effectively. I mean, my our

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Speaker 2: view certainly is they're very limited what they can do now.

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Speaker 2: Obviously they can still play a part, but these legislation

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Speaker 2: changes have come in with our consideration to how that

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Speaker 2: affects them and the police response, and that's very disappointing.

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Speaker 1: Police Association President Paul mceue, We always appreciate your time.

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Speaker 1: Thanks very much for chatting with us today. Good on you,

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Speaker 1: Thanks Katie, thank you. You are listening to Mix one

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Speaker 1: O four nine's three sixty