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Speaker 1: Researchers from Charles Darwin University as well as Griffith University

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Speaker 1: and the Australian Institute for Marine Science, as well as

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory Government and LARACHIEA Rangers are going to

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Speaker 1: assess the ecological changes that have arisen due to the

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Speaker 1: protection of salties across the Northern Territory. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: on the line to talk more about this is Professor

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Speaker 1: Hamish Campbell from the Research Institute for the Environment and Livelihoods.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you, Hamish, good morning, Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for your time this morning. Tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit more about this research which is set to get underway.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this project is funded under a Commonwealth Australian

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Speaker 2: Research Council grant. It's lasting for three years. It's probably

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Speaker 2: one of the first to really look at the impact

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Speaker 2: of large carnivore change in general in Australia and we're

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Speaker 2: focusing on the estrain crocodiles for that. And the reason

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Speaker 2: why that's important is, of course crocodile populations have you know,

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Speaker 2: expanded dramatically in the last forty or forty fifty years

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Speaker 2: from around about three thousand individuals to around about you know,

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Speaker 2: the government estimate. Recent estimates are over one hundred thousand

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Speaker 2: and non hatchling crocodiles in the tree. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: these are large animals, large biomass. They're top predators in

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Speaker 2: the systems that they exist. You know, they're feeding on

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Speaker 2: a lot of fish, they're feeding a lot of pegs,

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Speaker 2: a lot of wallabies, and we're really interested to try

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Speaker 2: and understand what significance that's making, if any at all. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: we tend to hear quite often that we want to

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Speaker 2: protect crocodiles because they're important to the ecosystem as being

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Speaker 2: a top predator, but we're not actually sure what they're

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Speaker 2: actually doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon that's a it's going to be really fascinating.

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Speaker 1: And and I note that crocodiles become protected back in

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy one after they are almost hunted into extinction.

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Speaker 1: But you'd have to sort of, you know, you'd have

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Speaker 1: to think that at this point in time, they does

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Speaker 1: seem to be an awful lot of crocodiles around, particularly

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Speaker 1: here in the top end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's correct, But the conditions are ideal for them,

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Speaker 2: and they've got these large wetland habitats, so they tend

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Speaker 2: to thrive. They're obviously culturally important animals, and there's you know,

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Speaker 2: there's a considerable economy within the territory based around them,

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Speaker 2: around egg harvesting and obviously growing them up for the skins.

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Speaker 2: So they're incredibly important to the anti economy. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: they are. They do pose a significant risk to humans

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Speaker 2: and livelihoods and cattle and stuff. So yeah, we have

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Speaker 2: to running out of this project is really to try

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Speaker 2: and understand better, so managers have that information on you know,

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Speaker 2: what what size of population should you know, the territory

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Speaker 2: be supporting in terms of crocodiles?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I mean are there any numbers to sort

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Speaker 1: of go by when you do when you talk about that,

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Speaker 1: when you when you sort of raise that point of

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Speaker 1: whether there should be a certain number you know here

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Speaker 1: in the territory.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we just don't know. We don't know that because

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Speaker 2: we never did the studies you know, back before you know,

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Speaker 2: we didn't do the pre hunting studies. Yeah, we don't

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Speaker 2: have those figures to compare it against. But you know,

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Speaker 2: experts do believe that the populations that we see today

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Speaker 2: are probably you know, similar to pre European population levels. Wow,

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Speaker 2: some areas anyway.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we talk a lot, you know, we hear

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Speaker 1: quite often about crocodiles sort of being in locations where

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Speaker 1: they maybe hadn't been previously. But I'm assuming that that

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Speaker 1: does relate to the fact that there's just so many

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Speaker 1: of them, seemingly at the moment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there are territorial animals, so you know, young

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Speaker 2: males get pushed out of territory smaller males. So a

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Speaker 2: lot of these crocodiles that turn up in the in

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Speaker 2: the traps that are set by the anti government, they

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Speaker 2: tend to be you know, your smaller sort of jubing

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Speaker 2: up to sub adult male crocodiles that are being pushed

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Speaker 2: out of the systems by those larger crocodiles. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: so those big systems like the Mary and the Adelaide

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Speaker 2: River in the South Alligator, you know, you're getting you're

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Speaker 2: probably reaching a critical mass of crocodilians in there now

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Speaker 2: where we've got these large what we call the boss

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Speaker 2: crops controlling the systems, dominating them and these smaller animals

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Speaker 2: are getting pushed out and they're just getting pushed from

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Speaker 2: place to place. So they're turning up, you know, in

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Speaker 2: Darwin Harbor, and in places that we didn't normally see crocodiles,

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Speaker 2: they tend to be those sort of size and class

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Speaker 2: of individuals.

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Speaker 1: I'll tell you what, it's going to be some very interesting,

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Speaker 1: interesting data that you collect, There's no doubt about it.

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Speaker 1: How much what exactly are you going to what exactly

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Speaker 1: is going to be on with this research once complete?

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Speaker 2: Well, we're signings, So we published the findings. We're all

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Speaker 2: about open access to data and making sure that you know,

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Speaker 2: the public and the government, you know, know what the

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Speaker 2: data is, this is what the data shows, and this

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Speaker 2: is what the current state of knowledge is around around

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Speaker 2: crocodiles in the territory.

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Speaker 1: And so how long are you going to be conducting

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Speaker 1: the survey for.

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Speaker 2: So it's over three years.

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Speaker 1: I have three years. So well, so it's I mean

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Speaker 1: it's you've really got a good opportunity here to get

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Speaker 1: a really good grasp on what is going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, particularly for yeah, for crocodiles. And it's got larger

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Speaker 2: ramifications as well. You know across across the world. You know,

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Speaker 2: large carnivores have been taken out of the systems, and

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Speaker 2: we know in some cases that leads to sort of

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Speaker 2: what we call trophic cascades where the ecosystem begins to collapse,

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Speaker 2: and we've got this unique situation in the territory where

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Speaker 2: we've allowed a top predator to recover. You know, in

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Speaker 2: Australia should be really proud that they've done that. You know,

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Speaker 2: this is a real top presser animal that was almost

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Speaker 2: in the verge of extinction and in the territory they've

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Speaker 2: allowed that to recover to free hunting levels. So there's

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Speaker 2: a lot of information that other people around the world

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Speaker 2: will be looking at to try and like understand what

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Speaker 2: they're doing in the ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: Well, Professor Hamish Campbell, it's been great to speak with

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Speaker 1: you this morning. I think it's going to be really

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Speaker 1: fascinating research and we'll all be keeping an eye out

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Speaker 1: to see what you find.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much, thank you.

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Speaker 1: We appreciate your time this morning. That is Professor Hamish

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Speaker 1: Campbell there from the Research Institute for the Environment and Livelihoods,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I think it's going to be fascinating to

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Speaker 1: see just how large those crocodile numbers have grown over

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Speaker 1: recent years. And as I said, from that data that

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Speaker 1: they have actually sent through to us, we know that

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Speaker 1: crocodile has become protected back in nineteen seventy one, and

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Speaker 1: that is after they were almost hunting to extinction. But

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Speaker 1: you'd have to say now, well, from a layman's perspective,

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Speaker 1: it certainly seems as though there's a lot of them

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Speaker 1: around