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Speaker 1: Are you at the end of twenty twenty five and

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Speaker 1: thinking to yourself, Wow, that was a lot and when

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Speaker 1: you sit down to reflect on it all, you realize

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Speaker 1: that you've actually wrapped up a lot of lessons. Well,

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Speaker 1: I definitely did, so my mate Shelley Johnson and I

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Speaker 1: decided to put it all down on paper twenty five

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Speaker 1: Things twenty twenty.

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Speaker 2: Five taught us.

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Speaker 1: This is a special crossover episode with Shelley's brilliant podcast

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Speaker 1: This is a work And if you don't know Shelley,

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Speaker 1: she's the co founder of hr consulting business bold Side,

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Speaker 1: and writes a regular column about work for The Sydney

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Speaker 1: Morning Herald and The Age. So Shelley and I both

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Speaker 1: showed up to this recording with printed lists, very old school,

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Speaker 1: and what followed was very fast, quite honest, and hopefully

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Speaker 1: genuinely useful for you. You will hear everything from what

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Speaker 1: embarrassment taught Shelley at a media wall to why I'm

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Speaker 1: convinced that energy is the most important KPI we need

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Speaker 1: to be thinking about. By the end of this episode,

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Speaker 1: I reckon you'll have your own list forming in your

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Speaker 1: head and you will definitely have plenty of learnings from

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Speaker 1: us that you can implement. In twenty twenty six, Welcome

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Speaker 1: to How I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and

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Speaker 1: strategies for optimizing your day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber.

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Speaker 3: All right, So twenty five things I learned in twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty five. We're going to move fast. The first one

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Speaker 3: I had was bring your own CEO energy. And sometimes, Amantha,

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Speaker 3: I don't know if this has happened to you, but

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Speaker 3: lately I've been in meetings where I think I have

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Speaker 3: watered down sometimes how I've shown up, or I've found

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Speaker 3: like myself withholding or like being really like apologetic, or

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Speaker 3: maybe going into people pleasing mode. And sometimes I'm like, no,

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Speaker 3: you know what, I just need to bring my own

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Speaker 3: CEO energy, even if I don't have that as a title.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if you've had that, but that's been

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Speaker 3: one of my learnings this year, to like channel a

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Speaker 3: bit of the type of confidence I would expect to

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Speaker 3: the CEO.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's funny, I have not thought about that at all.

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Speaker 1: That is not a learning for me, And it's funny.

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Speaker 1: Since I stepped back into the CEO role, I actually

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Speaker 1: really resist I never refer to myself as CEO. I'm like, oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm a founder or I run invent hum or whatever.

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Speaker 1: That's so funny. I feel like I'll be able to

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Speaker 1: relate to a lot of yours, but I can't relate

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Speaker 1: to that. I'd like to think I just kind of

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Speaker 1: just naturally just show up and people can take it

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Speaker 1: or leave it however I come.

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Speaker 2: But maybe last year I would have given a different answer.

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Speaker 4: I do.

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Speaker 2: I do love that though, Go what's your tip? Number two?

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Speaker 1: And my number one is And I've spent the year

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty five researching energy for a book that's coming

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Speaker 1: out in twenty twenty six, The Energy Game, and I

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Speaker 1: reckon energy is the new KPI. Any manager leader that

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Speaker 1: comes to me saying you need high performing like five performance,

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Speaker 1: we need a high performing team, and they're looking for

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Speaker 1: like leadership strategies, I always ask them what is the

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Speaker 1: energy of your team and your leaders like, because if

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Speaker 1: you have no energy, like, any number of leadership tips

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Speaker 1: are just not going to scratch the surface when you're

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Speaker 1: not showing up with a clear brain and you know,

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Speaker 1: just great energy.

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Speaker 2: So that's a big one for me.

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Speaker 3: I have so many follow up questions I know are

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Speaker 3: on a time time crunch. Can I just ask you,

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Speaker 3: because this links to my number three point, what does

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Speaker 3: energy look like?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: So energy for me, it looks like physical, emotional, and

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Speaker 1: cognitive energy. Most people lump it in one and they

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Speaker 1: go all and feeling really exhausted. But when they think

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Speaker 1: about it, when they actually analyze what's going on and

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Speaker 1: have that framework in mind, they can identify that. No,

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Speaker 1: my physical energy is okay, my cognitive energy is okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not having brain fog, but my emotional energy is shot.

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Speaker 1: Like you know, I'm trying at the drop of a hat.

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Speaker 1: I feel like my resilience is next to nothing. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes it's a different kind of energy. It might be cognitive,

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Speaker 1: but emotionally they're fine. So I think it's really useful

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Speaker 1: to break it down into three energy buckets or accounts

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Speaker 1: if you like.

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Speaker 3: And then if I'm thinking about those accounts, I'm like,

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Speaker 3: the withdrawals are happening, but sometimes we're not aware those

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Speaker 3: with drawls are happening. And then also I'm like, oh

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Speaker 3: my gosh, but how do we top them up? Yes,

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Speaker 3: and I might even touch on that in some of

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Speaker 3: my other points. Okay, well, do you know what that rolls?

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Speaker 3: Straight into my number three because this is what I wrote. Man,

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Speaker 3: and I've got my little paper you can hear. I've

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Speaker 3: got typed out little list.

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Speaker 2: I got mine too.

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Speaker 3: Oh good, look go we're so analogue with our printed

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Speaker 3: out things. Time management is a fallacy. Energy management is

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Speaker 3: way better.

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Speaker 2: Oh you kidding me? Oh my god? I like I

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Speaker 2: write about that in the in the book.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like no amount of good time management will

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Speaker 1: fix your energy.

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Speaker 4: I need to get this book. I'm when is this

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Speaker 4: book launch?

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Speaker 2: July twenty twenty six?

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Speaker 3: That is so far away. I don't have the energy

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Speaker 3: to wait for I need it. I'm like, I need

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Speaker 3: it now were recording. This is the end of the year.

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Speaker 3: And my energy, i will say, is pretty shot. So like,

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Speaker 3: I can't wait for this book, this book. Oh my gosh,

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Speaker 3: we're going to do a big launch on this pod

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Speaker 3: on this is work We're going to I cannot wait. Okay,

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Speaker 3: what is your number four?

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Speaker 1: Number four is setting boundaries is an energy intervention, And

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Speaker 1: I don't think most people think about boundaries this way.

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Speaker 1: Like boundaries is, you know, I guess a very in

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Speaker 1: vogue thing to talk about and the importance of saying no.

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Speaker 1: But I would love it if people start thinking about

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Speaker 1: boundaries as a way to actually manage their energy, because

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Speaker 1: if you don't set good boundaries, if you're not saying

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Speaker 1: no enough, if you're not delegating enough, it's like you're

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Speaker 1: trying to fuel your energy bucket, but it's just got

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Speaker 1: leaks in it. And so yeah, boundaries super important. I

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Speaker 1: feel like I learned that the hard way in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty four, where I had very limited boundaries, and twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five I have had really firm boundaries. And I

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Speaker 1: feel like I'm one of the only people that I

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Speaker 1: know and I feel so smug saying this that I'm

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Speaker 1: not limping to the end of the finish line. I'm

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Speaker 1: like boundless energy right now, and we're right at the

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Speaker 1: end of November.

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Speaker 4: I'm really jealous.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I'm so smug. I hate myself.

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Speaker 4: Anyway, whatever I love, I love it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, here's one it's kind of linked, but one practice

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Speaker 3: I've been trying to do, particularly if we thinking about

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Speaker 3: your language of cognitive energy, has been double down, deprioritized, delete,

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Speaker 3: and so continually going back to my work because I

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Speaker 3: am the type of person that I often think more

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Speaker 3: is better, and I've learned that more is not better.

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Speaker 4: Actually less is heaps better.

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Speaker 3: As you're saying goes, less is more, so double down, deprioritized, elete,

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Speaker 3: just having a rhythm to come back to that model

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Speaker 3: and then looking at my work and going, Okay, how

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Speaker 3: do I Why am I finding it so hard to

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Speaker 3: delete anything? Like, because that's where I feel like I'm

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Speaker 3: not I'm struggling to think of what to delete. I

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Speaker 3: can deprioritize stuff, but I'm still in my mind like

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Speaker 3: I'm going to hold that in my mind for a

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Speaker 3: period of time and I will come back to it.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, no, I just need to be able to

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Speaker 3: move stuff to that delete category.

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Speaker 2: Yes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so hard to let go of things, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: I feel like a strategy that works for me is

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Speaker 1: having a two don't list and at the end of

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Speaker 1: every month just going what are the things that really

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Speaker 1: sucked my energy and then forming a rule around them, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't do meetings before eleven am, or

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Speaker 1: I don't see this particular friend or this you know,

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Speaker 1: acquaintance because whenever I see them, they just drain my energy.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's really good to like do whatever

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Speaker 1: reset at the start of every month.

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Speaker 2: Okay, this is.

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Speaker 3: My I'd love to say I feel like seeing that

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Speaker 3: list though, would be so funny. But to be like,

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Speaker 3: if there's a name on there, you're like, I.

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Speaker 4: Do see you.

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Speaker 3: I just see you at four pm. That's my time

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Speaker 3: for you, exactly.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this is my last energy one. And then we're like,

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Speaker 1: I've tried to theme my tips. I think we're up

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Speaker 1: to tip number six. I'm on the even numbers, you're

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Speaker 1: on the odd numbers. So okay, rest is a skill,

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Speaker 1: not the absence of work, and I think this is

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Speaker 1: a big mistake that people make where they go, well,

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Speaker 1: I'm not working, I'm slumped on the couch watching Netflix,

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Speaker 1: and so therefore I am resting right now. But that

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Speaker 1: is what I call fake rest because it's not rejuvenating,

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Speaker 1: it's not recharging, it's simply the absence of work. And

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Speaker 1: so the more people can engage in genuinely RESTful and

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Speaker 1: restorative activity is the more recharged they're going to feel

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Speaker 1: the next day.

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Speaker 2: And that's certainly been true for me.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I again, we need to do another pod on

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Speaker 3: rest is a skill, like just in itself, because I

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Speaker 3: think people are really not good at that I'm just

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Speaker 3: like thinking, I'm really not good at.

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Speaker 4: That number seven.

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Speaker 3: Oh, this was such a big learning for me this year.

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Speaker 3: Embarrassment is good for your ego. Oh tell me about that.

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Speaker 3: Was there an experience you had, Oh, there was an experience.

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Speaker 3: So I was Ametha. I was speaking at this event, big,

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Speaker 3: big event. I was like, the keynote got up. I

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Speaker 3: thought I did really well. I was like, I killed it.

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Speaker 3: I crushed it, like I absolutely did my best work.

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Speaker 3: I hoped down and at the end of the night,

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Speaker 3: there was like the photo wall, the media wall, and

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Speaker 3: they were like getting photos. And a guy comes up

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Speaker 3: to me and he's like, oh, hey, we're just here.

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Speaker 3: We would love to get a photo. And I was

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Speaker 3: like yeah, sure, like sweet, So I walk over. There's

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Speaker 3: twelve of them, like a big grip. I stand at

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Speaker 3: them in this group and they're like, oh no, sorry,

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Speaker 3: like we.

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Speaker 4: Don't want you to we just wanted you to take

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Speaker 4: the photo. And I was like.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to die now, like I'm actually going to

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Speaker 3: sink into the floor. But it just it was so

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Speaker 3: funny because I often think your best work, like some

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Speaker 3: of your worst work can come after your best work,

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Speaker 3: and vice versa. Some of your best work can come

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Speaker 3: after your worst work. And I kind of think about

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Speaker 3: the connection. I'm like, you know, what, embarrassment is actually

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Speaker 3: good if you actually step into it. I think anytime

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Speaker 3: you're doing something challenging, you're going to be embarrassed. But

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Speaker 3: just embrace it, I'm like. And so then I just

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Speaker 3: I ended up laughing about it so quickly, and we

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Speaker 3: wrote about it in Sidney Morning Herald because I'm like, actually,

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Speaker 3: embarrassment's fine as long as you can laugh at yourself

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Speaker 3: and go, hey, this is good for my ego. So

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Speaker 3: that was one of my big learnings this year.

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Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that reminds me of a time. This

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Speaker 2: is many years ago.

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Speaker 1: I was doing a keynote at this really big breakfast

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Speaker 1: event for one of the banks, and the customers about

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Speaker 1: like five hundred people in a ballroom style breakfast event.

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Speaker 1: And I start to walk on stage. So I think

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Speaker 1: I was wearing backing stocks or some random footwear, and

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Speaker 1: I tripped up on stage. Like, as I'm walking up

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Speaker 1: the stairs to do my keynote, I trip, one of

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Speaker 1: my shoes come off. I'm like, oh, fuck, was shoe gone?

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Speaker 1: It was anyway, I was so mortified. I think I

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Speaker 1: tried to make a joke. I can't remember if people laugh.

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Speaker 1: But then I just got on with it. And whenever

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Speaker 1: I'm walking on stage three keynote now and there's stairs

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Speaker 1: to go up, I always think of that memory and

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Speaker 1: I walk really carefully, and it will.

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Speaker 4: Haunt you until your final days. You are just.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, the burks Like it's a bit of

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Speaker 3: a Cinderella moment. I like, just you know, the burks

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Speaker 3: come off and You're like, here I am, I'm just

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Speaker 3: gonna be barefoot. Yeah, I'm just gonna ground myself on

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Speaker 3: stage exactly.

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Speaker 2: But the thing is, only one shoe came off, and

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh god, what do I do? What do

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Speaker 2: I do?

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Speaker 1: Do it?

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Speaker 2: What could have taken them both off? Anyway? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Number eight? Number eight, I think we're up to okay.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, So look, a lot of this year for

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Speaker 1: me has been in the world of jen Ai.

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Speaker 2: It's been a huge focus.

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Speaker 1: I think that the like one of the fundamental things

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Speaker 1: that I think about is that jen Ai is now

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Speaker 1: your coworker. It's not a tool, and for me, like

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Speaker 1: it's a coworker that's always sitting next to me. Something

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Speaker 1: I've heard with a lot of guests that I've had

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Speaker 1: on how I work where we talk about AI is

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Speaker 1: that they will you know, let's just say, I think

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Speaker 1: a lot of people now have a two monitor setup.

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Speaker 1: I feel like that became a thing during COVID. One

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Speaker 1: of their monitors will be dedicated to AI. Heard this

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Speaker 1: from a few people. One was a futurist Bob Johnson,

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Speaker 1: And I kind of like that because for those that

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Speaker 1: are not in the habit of using AI very frequently

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Speaker 1: to either improve productivity or augment your thinking, I think

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Speaker 1: they're sort of, you know, the two biggest ways we

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Speaker 1: can use AI.

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Speaker 2: It just kind of acts as.

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Speaker 1: A visualminded to go, Hey, I've got this coworker sitting

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Speaker 1: next to me at all times.

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Speaker 2: I don't have to worry about interrupting them. They're never

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Speaker 2: in a meeting, They're always available for me and.

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Speaker 3: For me like it's just become such an important part

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Speaker 3: of my team. The other thing I love that Inventium

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Speaker 3: does so well in the way that you train people

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Speaker 3: in gen AI is I've heard you talk about it

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Speaker 3: as you are now a manager of AI.

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Speaker 1: One hundred percent. Yes, we are all managers, regardless of

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Speaker 1: what your title is and you are managing AI like

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Speaker 1: in the same way. And this is one of the

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Speaker 1: things that really bugs me. And I mean just the

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Speaker 1: amount of AI slop or workslop or whatever we want

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Speaker 1: to call it that is out there. I mean, we're

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Speaker 1: having a winge about LinkedIn before we started recording, and

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Speaker 1: I mean, god, it's all over that. But even just

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Speaker 1: like in emails that we're getting from clients or coworkers

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Speaker 1: or whoever, and reports that we're getting, I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: just it really bugs me because it's such a big

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Speaker 1: time waster if you are delegating to AI and not

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Speaker 1: treating it like a direct report, where you would delegate

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Speaker 1: something to a direct report, but you would check over it, particularly,

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Speaker 1: you know, if they've never done this task. But a

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Speaker 1: lot of people are not checking over the work that

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Speaker 1: AI does, and they're not prompting it to be be

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Speaker 1: more succinct because AI is not necessarily doing that. They

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Speaker 1: you know that they're using sort of flowery language and

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Speaker 1: way too many adjectives and we're and I just find

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Speaker 1: that so disrespectful when we're delegating to AI, but we're

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Speaker 1: not actually checking its work just like we would if

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Speaker 1: we were managing them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I love.

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Speaker 3: Also, he's just so easy to spot and just as

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Speaker 3: soon as I see it, actually lowers your credibility so

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Speaker 3: much I think, mm hmmmm hmm. Okay, my next one,

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Speaker 3: number nine. Oh, where am I going to go with this? Okay,

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Speaker 3: this one? Connection is better than charisma.

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Speaker 4: I've been. We did this big like.

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Speaker 3: Pod earlier in the year, around like this whole thing

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Speaker 3: out there and on Instagram, on socials, pushing become more charismatic,

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Speaker 3: become more charismatic. I'm just like, no, just become better

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Speaker 3: at connecting with people, Like I just find.

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Speaker 4: The charisma stuff.

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Speaker 3: Charisma is all about me and connection is about you.

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Speaker 3: So if I want to be more influential or charismatic,

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Speaker 3: pursuing charisma in and of itself is actually, I think,

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Speaker 3: the wrong way.

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Speaker 4: To go about it. It's like, actually, just get.

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Speaker 3: Better at reading the room, at connecting genuinely with people.

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Speaker 4: And that to me, I just it bothers me.

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Speaker 3: Amanth When people are like banging on about becoming more charismatic,

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Speaker 3: I might I just thinking, if you're outa directed and

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Speaker 3: outer focused, you will naturally be that as an outcome,

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Speaker 3: But don't pursue that as an outcome in and of itself.

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Speaker 1: It's funny when I hear When I hear the word charisma,

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Speaker 1: my mind goes in two ways. I think, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: that's something that you're born with and you can't control,

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Speaker 1: and so that's really frustrating. If you feel like you're

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Speaker 1: not a naturally charismatic person, then that feels like really

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Speaker 1: annoying advice. But then if you go, okay, well how

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Speaker 1: do I learn charisma? To me, when I think of

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Speaker 1: learning to be more charismatic, I feel like, ah, but

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Speaker 1: am I still going to be myself? It feels a

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Speaker 1: little bit inauthentic. I'm gonna hate the word authenticity, but

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Speaker 1: it feels a bit inauthentic to try to be charismatic.

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Speaker 1: So I think I have a natural repulsion from that word.

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Speaker 1: So I like that idea of prioritizing connection because we

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Speaker 1: can all get better at how we connect with people.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, one hundred percent. Okay, are we up to tip

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Speaker 2: number ten?

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Speaker 4: Ten?

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Speaker 2: Okay? Amazing?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So this has really changed the way that I

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Speaker 1: work when I'm at my computer, And this lesson is

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Speaker 1: that speaking is faster than typing. Now, this is not

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Speaker 1: earth shattering, because I think we could all we all

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Speaker 1: know that intuitively, but the software that's available now means

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Speaker 1: that instead of typing things and taking more time, we

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Speaker 1: can be far more efficient if we speak it out.

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Speaker 1: And so the software that that has now become very

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Speaker 1: much a daily, if not hourly habit. I mean I

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Speaker 1: would use this software every hour, I think at least

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Speaker 1: a few times, is whisper flow. So we'll put a

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Speaker 1: link to that in the show notes. So it's spelt

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Speaker 1: wispr and then flow. And how it works is that

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Speaker 1: you install the software, you set up a shortcut. So

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Speaker 1: for me, when I press the function key on my keyboard,

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Speaker 1: my computer automatically listens to my voice and then transcribes

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Speaker 1: what I'm saying. And what's really cool about whisper flow,

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Speaker 1: which is in contrast to other software out there, is

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Speaker 1: that it automatically fixes up any errors. Like if I say, Hey, Shelley,

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Speaker 1: it's great to chat, I mean, it was great to

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Speaker 1: see you today, it will just write, hey Shelley, it

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Speaker 1: was great to see you today. And also it adds

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Speaker 1: in punctuation as well. My only complaint is that sometimes

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Speaker 1: it americanizes words, so you still have to proofread the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. But I'm much for it and particularly in

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Speaker 1: the age of AI slop, where a lot of emails

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Speaker 1: that we're now receiving are clearly just written by AI

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Speaker 1: without a human really involved much at all. I like

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Speaker 1: it because I generally don't use AI to write emails

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Speaker 1: unless it's something that requires quite a bit of structuring

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Speaker 1: and architecting. I will generally speak out my emails. They

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Speaker 1: feel and sound more human, and it's also super quick

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Speaker 1: for me to talk it out. So it's just a

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Speaker 1: game changer. And the other thing about the software is

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Speaker 1: it works across whatever software you're in. So if I'm

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Speaker 1: in Outlook, or if I'm you know, in a browser

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Speaker 1: in Chrome or Brave, or you know, want a type

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Speaker 1: of comment to a LinkedIn post, it just it follows

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Speaker 1: me wherever I am.

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Speaker 2: I just had to hit the function key.

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Speaker 3: I have written that down whisper flow, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: immediately after this, I'll be like, I'm downloaded it. I'm

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Speaker 3: ready to go amazing. Okay, number eleven, HM, this is

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Speaker 3: a big one for me this year. Psychological safety is

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Speaker 3: not the same as psychological comfort, and people are weaponizing

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Speaker 3: psychological safety at work, and they're saying as soon as

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Speaker 3: the conversation gets tough. This isn't psycho psychologically safe. We've

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Speaker 3: got to move past that.

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Speaker 4: And I think like.

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Speaker 3: Amy Edmondson's work in psychological safety was this idea that

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Speaker 3: the most psychologically safe teams have the most honest, real

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Speaker 3: tough conversations, but they do it in a way that's

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Speaker 3: infused with health and kindness and care. They're not brutal.

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Speaker 3: But I think where we've gone we've almost overplayed psychological

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Speaker 3: safety at times where we're starting to say, well, as

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Speaker 3: soon as something becomes difficult, well it's not safe. And

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Speaker 3: I think I liken it to being on a plane.

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Speaker 3: I can be uncomfortable on a plane and still be safe.

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Speaker 3: And if you're on Jet Star and someone reclines their chair,

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Speaker 3: you are uncomfortable. I'm just uncomfortable, but I'm still safe.

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Speaker 3: Plain travel is the safest form of travel. Just because

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Speaker 3: I'm uncomfortable don't mean I'm unsafe. And I think we

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Speaker 3: really need to start to shift some of the narrative

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Speaker 3: around psychological safety. And yes, organizations have to do a

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Speaker 3: heap of work to make sure that there's trust, and

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Speaker 3: I'm not devaluing that that's absolutely crucial, but let's also

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Speaker 3: be conscious that discomfort doesn't equal a lack of safety.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that a lot, and I reckon a

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Speaker 1: lot of teams and a lot of leaders confuse that

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Speaker 1: has that been your experience, I'm definitely see.

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Speaker 3: It thrown around a lot, where like people just tap

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Speaker 3: out of a meeting like emotionally and cognitively or still

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Speaker 3: be there, but they're like not safe, and it's like no, No,

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Speaker 3: lean into that process, Like, yes, we need to get

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Speaker 3: great at having tough conversations, but we also need to

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Speaker 3: be okay with discomfort.

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Speaker 4: It's how we grow.

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Speaker 3: So that's been a big ranty thing that I've talked

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Speaker 3: about a lot this year and enjoyed talking about.

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Speaker 1: You know what I might add in there, So let's

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Speaker 1: go number twelve. This wasn't one that I'd prepared, but

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Speaker 1: I also don't know if I prepared the right number.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, I think it might be one or two shots,

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Speaker 1: So let's go with this. So on the topic of

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Speaker 1: psych safety, I think that something like when I think

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Speaker 1: about the Inventium team and twenty twenty four was not

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Speaker 1: a great year for psych safety being high across the board.

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Speaker 1: It was high for some people but not others. Twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five completely changed. And I think one process that

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Speaker 1: we have found really helpful as a team is trying to,

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Speaker 1: where possible have a post mortem for projects or processes

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Speaker 1: that actually felt quite difficult and where at least some

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Speaker 1: of us feel like we could have done it better.

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Speaker 2: So we had so we had, you know.

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Speaker 1: One one process that we were like trying, we'd try

436
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:02,639
Speaker 1: to innovate it like an internal process, and it just

437
00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: we really didn't nail it. And most of us were

438
00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: involved in this particular process, and so we spent a

439
00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 1: good couple of hours together. We did this face to face,

440
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: just kind of working through and the main person who

441
00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,800
Speaker 1: was experiencing the process brought a lot of their learnings

442
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:25,439
Speaker 1: and we all listened, and it was also quite useful.

443
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,960
Speaker 1: We had an AI transcription on as well, just so

444
00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:30,400
Speaker 1: we don't have to take copious notes and stuff during

445
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,240
Speaker 1: the conversation and we can all be present and then

446
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 1: also use that AI like transcript to help generate a summary,

447
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,199
Speaker 1: just generate some objective action points that we might have missed.

448
00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: And I think kind of knowing that we booked that

449
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 1: in the diary helped us all go okay, well instead

450
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: of getting blamey, let's just get really reflective and let's

451
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,040
Speaker 1: just lock in what are a few lessons that we

452
00:22:57,080 --> 00:22:59,160
Speaker 1: can take from this and do it better the next

453
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: time we have to this process. So big fan of

454
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,719
Speaker 1: post mortems. I know that they're not new or groundbreaking,

455
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,399
Speaker 1: but I think when it comes to site safety, it

456
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: can really help a lot.

457
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: And then I might go in then to flow on

458
00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 3: from that to number thirteen is it? And I think

459
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:17,560
Speaker 3: it really relates to exactly what you've just said. Whenever

460
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 3: there's any tension or conflict on a team, or you

461
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,480
Speaker 3: can even call it disagreement, make it about the problem,

462
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 3: not the person. And I think, like, how do we

463
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:31,600
Speaker 3: make any form of conflict or problems, any form of conflict, tension,

464
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 3: disagreement about the problem, not the person, Because I think,

465
00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,600
Speaker 3: as you say, when we get into the blaming blame,

466
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:42,520
Speaker 3: blame tends to be about a we're externally externalizing that

467
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,639
Speaker 3: problem to someone else, whereas if we look at it

468
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 3: and we go, you know what, let's just make it

469
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:50,919
Speaker 3: about this problem. It's like that Liz and Molly cartoon.

470
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 3: It's really beautiful that says, instead of you versus me,

471
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 3: it's you and me versus the problem.

472
00:23:58,880 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: And they hold hands.

473
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 3: Holding hands is probably discouraged if you're in a work context, but.

474
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,040
Speaker 4: You know, whatever you want to do.

475
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,000
Speaker 1: Okay, don't go away, because coming up next we go

476
00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,800
Speaker 1: through lessons fourteen to twenty five, and we'll be sharing

477
00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,679
Speaker 1: some of the most important habits and ideas that we

478
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 1: picked up in twenty twenty five, along with two of

479
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: my favorite hacks for keeping a good posture. Okay, let

480
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 1: me follow with one other thing. And I think this

481
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,199
Speaker 1: is well, it's kind of relates to psych safety but

482
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: also innovation. And I heard this recently with a guest

483
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:45,880
Speaker 1: I had on How I Work called Elan Lee, and

484
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 1: he's the co creator of Exploding Kittens, and shall do

485
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,760
Speaker 1: you know Exploding Kittens the game? No, oh man, you're

486
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: missing out and your kids are missing out as well.

487
00:24:56,840 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 2: So it is. It was, actually it was so.

488
00:25:00,720 --> 00:25:04,240
Speaker 1: Elan created it with oh my god, I'm forgetting his name,

489
00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:07,320
Speaker 1: Matt Oh I got to can't remember, sent him who

490
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,919
Speaker 1: created the Oatmeal cartoon, which a lot of people are

491
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,480
Speaker 1: familiar with that, And so they got together they created

492
00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: this card game called Exploding Kittens. They put it up

493
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: on Kickstarter. I think it was the most successful Kickstarter

494
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,879
Speaker 1: campaign ever. This is ten years ago, raised nine million

495
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:27,440
Speaker 1: dollars in thirty days, two hundred and twenty thousand backers,

496
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:30,919
Speaker 1: and it's turned into like a massive global game company.

497
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 1: So they've now got like, I don't know, over fifty games.

498
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:35,959
Speaker 1: They're so good where such fans in my family. And

499
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: I was asking Elan about, like how do they come

500
00:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: up with ideas for new games? I mean the like

501
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:46,439
Speaker 1: this is just like a creativity like factory, I feel like.

502
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: And one of Elon's thoughts is that the idea of yes,

503
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:53,719
Speaker 1: and which is a very common advice when people are

504
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: talking about brainstorming, like when someone says an idea, go yes,

505
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: and we could also do this, and like just build

506
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: on ideas no matter how shit they are, because that's

507
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: what we should do. And it comes from improv and like,

508
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:09,040
Speaker 1: you know, it's great in an improv setting. But why

509
00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:11,239
Speaker 1: he hates it for brainstorming is that it means that

510
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,840
Speaker 1: if you're getting together, like they have quarterly design retreats

511
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:18,439
Speaker 1: where they'll spend a day or two just thinking of

512
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,640
Speaker 1: ideas for new games. He said, if we do yes,

513
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,720
Speaker 1: and it means that we only get to explore a

514
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 1: handful of ideas because we're diving really deep. But he

515
00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:29,640
Speaker 1: said where the great quality and where the great ideas

516
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,560
Speaker 1: come from is when you can have a large amount

517
00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:34,879
Speaker 1: of quantity, like when we can get through thousands of

518
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: different ideas and so instead of yes, and they're actually

519
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: really quick to kill ideas. And Elon as a leader,

520
00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: role models this. So when they get new people in

521
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: on the team, he's really quick to show he just

522
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: has no ego. If one of his ideas is killed,

523
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: he's like, great, let's move on to the next one.

524
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: And I think that requires a large amount of psych safety.

525
00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 1: But Elon really lives this by just not having emotional

526
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: attachment to any idea. And you know, sure people can

527
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: fight to go hey, let's not kill it yet, but

528
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,560
Speaker 1: the default is to kill unless everyone you know is

529
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: feels like there's a spark there.

530
00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 3: That's actually I'm just processing that around quantity because we

531
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,200
Speaker 3: hear so much about quality and I'm just thinking about

532
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,600
Speaker 3: that going and the link between creativity and.

533
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 4: I kind of think about it.

534
00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:29,600
Speaker 3: It makes me think about like divergent thinking design thinking

535
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 3: processes of like getting more and more ideas on the

536
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,400
Speaker 3: table in the early stages. So thank you for sharing that.

537
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,640
Speaker 3: That's really super helpful, and I've also written down exploding kittens.

538
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,719
Speaker 4: For the kids.

539
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 3: It just it kind of then signaled on for number

540
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 3: fifteen of one of mine, which I'd love to hear

541
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 3: your thoughts on because this has just been a vibe

542
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 3: and you've been doing so much research in this space,

543
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:51,960
Speaker 3: so I'd love to love to know. But one of

544
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 3: mine was margin is the precursor to creativity? How do

545
00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 3: you have margin in your schedule and when you're so

546
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 3: busy in the weeds And for both of us as

547
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:11,200
Speaker 3: like people who pretty creative, I love having the space

548
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 3: for creativity. But I'm like, if I have no margin,

549
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:17,399
Speaker 3: I've just tapped out. I can't have those beautiful moments

550
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 3: of like ideas, and I actually have missed that this year.

551
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 3: I feel like I haven't had it, and it's been

552
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 3: a thing where I look at twenty twenty six, I'm like,

553
00:28:25,280 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: I need margin, Like I need margin because that's the

554
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 3: thing that helps me with the creativity and that's the

555
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:32,320
Speaker 3: thing that actually gives me the most energy in my work.

556
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 4: But tell me if I'm way.

557
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 3: Off there, because that's been a it's more being a

558
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 3: vibe than anything research based.

559
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,480
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, yeah, Like there's so much a research around that,

560
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 1: and I also hear it just firsthand. Again, like I

561
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: think about stories that I've heard on how I work.

562
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: I think about a couple of people, Darren Murph who

563
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: he used to be at git Lab and he really

564
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: sort of led their charge into being a remote first company,

565
00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,240
Speaker 1: and you know how they organized around that. And also

566
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 1: Nicky spa shot as well, I think shared this with me.

567
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,560
Speaker 1: She'sed to be Sea of Unilever in Australia and New

568
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:13,480
Speaker 1: Zealand and they talk about this idea of don't be

569
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: booked at one hundred percent and I like that because

570
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: it's really visual if you look at your diary and

571
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 1: I'm kind of glancing to the side looking at my

572
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: diary and I know that it's not going to be

573
00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: a great week for creativity if I am one hundred

574
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:29,400
Speaker 1: percent booked.

575
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 2: And also it allows for no like serendipity in at all.

576
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: And it also means if if like she hits the

577
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: fan or if a crisis happens, you're like your day

578
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,960
Speaker 1: is shot, and probably anyone else that was tightly packed

579
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 1: into your schedule they're going to be affected as well.

580
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: So I always try to make sure that I've got

581
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:54,000
Speaker 1: quite a bit of white space in my diary for

582
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: just things to pop up that I'm like, I've really

583
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: got the energy to you know, work on copy for

584
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 1: this particular piece for example, or to just go for

585
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: a walk and ponder this new product that I've been

586
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 1: noodling over. So I think it's so important, and you know,

587
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:14,400
Speaker 1: busyness and being one hundred percent booked like that is

588
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:15,760
Speaker 1: not a good thing.

589
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: I also visualize you, Amantha, on your walks being like

590
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 3: I got this idea, and you're talking a little hard

591
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:24,840
Speaker 3: out to chat your et voice mode like.

592
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 2: All the time, all the time.

593
00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 1: And interestingly, Elan Lee, who I mentioned before, he told

594
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,320
Speaker 1: me about a ritual that he has with AI where

595
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: every morning he goes for a walk and he's got

596
00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 1: a particular prompt that he puts in that basically prompts

597
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: the AI to just ask him questions but give him

598
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:45,800
Speaker 1: no input because he wants all the input to be

599
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,479
Speaker 1: from him, but he wants the AI to draw it

600
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 1: out of him. And so you'll go for a walk

601
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,640
Speaker 1: and he'll have a chat with AI every morning. I

602
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 1: had a similar ritual when I was in I think

603
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: that like, so I spent seven months of this year

604
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: working on the manuscript for the Energy game, and there

605
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 1: were particular months in that.

606
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 2: Process where it involves a lot.

607
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: Of creative thinking, a lot of problems solving, and almost

608
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:18,920
Speaker 1: every day during that period of time, I would go

609
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: for a walk and I would have a chat to

610
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:26,040
Speaker 1: whichever AI tool I was using at the time, and

611
00:31:26,720 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: I would just I would just chat and I would problem.

612
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,720
Speaker 2: Solve and I would get its view on things.

613
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 1: I would prompt it to be different personas of people

614
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 1: that I really respected in, you know, like fields of

615
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: game design or organizational psychology or other fields that were relevant,

616
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: and it was just it was it was so powerful.

617
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: And then I would have that whole transcript of the

618
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: conversation with me when I got back to my computer,

619
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 1: and then I could then ask questions of it, get

620
00:31:53,080 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 1: a summary, and I just think my thinking was so

621
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: much richer and so more drawn out in a really

622
00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,800
Speaker 1: good way because of that workflow.

623
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:06,000
Speaker 3: I've gotten so much from the work you've done around

624
00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:08,680
Speaker 3: how I can use AI day to day. Seriously, Like

625
00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: I went on a walk this morning and just did

626
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,719
Speaker 3: my little voice mode and I walked and I got

627
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 3: so much clarity in I'm like, that's thanks just the

628
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 3: work that you have been doing inventing that's really practically

629
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 3: helped me in my day to day life, which does

630
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 3: give me margin right to think it does?

631
00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 4: It does.

632
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 2: It's so funny. This morning I drove to the gym.

633
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:27,400
Speaker 1: It was pretty early, and you know, like when you're

634
00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 1: lying in bed and you just kind of like you're

635
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: thinking of things, You're like, oh, I need to do that,

636
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:34,600
Speaker 1: and then I've got ideas for that, and then I think.

637
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is because I'm a writer

638
00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: or maybe everyone does it, but I often find myself

639
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: when I've got a writing task to do, like whether

640
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 1: it's for a newsletter or you know, a section in

641
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,240
Speaker 1: the book or something like that, I will often write

642
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,080
Speaker 1: in my head. I'll spend quite a lot of time

643
00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: in bed just writing in my head. And it's also

644
00:32:51,240 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 1: it's a bit annoying because then I'll forget things. But

645
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: this morning, on the way to the gym, I just

646
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: put on chat TPT on voice mode, and I basically

647
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 1: just talked out all the ideas that I could remember,

648
00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: because you know, it was like fifteen minutes prior that

649
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: I was lying in bed thinking of this, and.

650
00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 2: I haven't done that too often.

651
00:33:07,920 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 1: But I'm like, well, that feels like a good workflow,

652
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: just to capture those early morning thoughts when you don't

653
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:12,600
Speaker 1: have pen and paper.

654
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 3: Also, I've been saying, do not interrupt me until I finished,

655
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:18,080
Speaker 3: and I say.

656
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, oh you got to say that.

657
00:33:21,080 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, so I think we're up to your night

658
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:31,840
Speaker 3: sixteen sixteen Okay, So so I I think that and

659
00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,400
Speaker 3: oh my god, I just sorry, just I had this

660
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:40,000
Speaker 3: memory where this is back in I think twenty eighteen, and.

661
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: I was there are a couple of years in my

662
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: life where I got to go to like the main

663
00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 1: ted in Vancouver, and one of the people I met

664
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:53,959
Speaker 1: was it was one of the co writers of I

665
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 1: think it was Avenue Q.

666
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 4: Was that?

667
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: Like, I think I'm pretty sure it was that, and

668
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 1: it's one of my favorite musicals. And I asked this guy, like,

669
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: what's your number one tip for.

670
00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: Creative thinking?

671
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:15,840
Speaker 1: I said, and he said, a deadline like that, nothing

672
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,560
Speaker 1: beats creativity and actual output than a deadline. And I

673
00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 1: feel like this year and I think whenever I'm on

674
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: a book deadline, because.

675
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,080
Speaker 2: It's quite I kind of look back and I'm like,

676
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:26,839
Speaker 2: how did I do that?

677
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,400
Speaker 1: Was I was running a business. I, you know, was

678
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,600
Speaker 1: doing a podcast and I was also writing.

679
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:35,160
Speaker 4: It.

680
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,360
Speaker 1: Blowed it out to about an eighty thousand word manuscript,

681
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: but then edited back down to a sixty five thousand

682
00:34:39,480 --> 00:34:42,960
Speaker 1: word manuscript and all the research, so much research was involved,

683
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: and I'm like, can do I actually get that done?

684
00:34:45,239 --> 00:34:48,120
Speaker 1: But I got it done, and it's a deadline. It's

685
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:51,320
Speaker 1: a deadline, and I'm hyper conscientious. That is a personality

686
00:34:51,360 --> 00:34:54,360
Speaker 1: trait I was born with, and I never want to

687
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: let down my publishers like that is just the most

688
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:00,000
Speaker 1: motivating thing for me. And I think even with small

689
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:04,360
Speaker 1: all the projects, I just think nothing beats productivity more

690
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:05,840
Speaker 1: than a deadline.

691
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,879
Speaker 3: I have written that down that I need to hear

692
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 3: that today. I also want to understand, just out of

693
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:16,360
Speaker 3: my own curiosity, what was the timeline for the book?

694
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 4: Was it? Yeah?

695
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: I it was originally I think six months or five

696
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: and a half months by the time the contract was signed.

697
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,480
Speaker 1: But then I pushed back and I said, no, I

698
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:30,520
Speaker 1: need a bit more time, and I think they.

699
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 2: Thought I could do that because the health habit.

700
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:35,560
Speaker 1: I did it in five months, which was really really tight,

701
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: but they wanted to get it out for a January

702
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:42,200
Speaker 1: release because of you know, New Year, New Year kind

703
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: of theme. But with this one, I thought, I just

704
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: I kind of need more time, Like I've just got

705
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,760
Speaker 1: so much that I need to research for this book.

706
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 1: And so yeah, seven months was what it was.

707
00:35:54,760 --> 00:36:00,200
Speaker 3: Well tech days, Sorry, that was just my own tell

708
00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 3: me that deadline.

709
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,040
Speaker 4: Okay, number seventeen.

710
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:05,040
Speaker 2: How much?

711
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 4: Where am I going to take this one?

712
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:13,120
Speaker 3: I think, Oh, this is something from our conversation way back.

713
00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 3: I can't remember when we did this, but big learning,

714
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 3: and it's been going on for a while. But is

715
00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 3: vulnerability isn't the same as oversharing? And so working out

716
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 3: and we had that really good conversation that was pretty vulnerable.

717
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and I.

718
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,320
Speaker 3: Think we dug into Okay, well what is the difference

719
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 3: between vulnerability and oversharing? And the line between those two

720
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:40,080
Speaker 3: things can be very blurred, and so working that out

721
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: and going vulnerability isn't emotional hijacking whereas oversharing can be

722
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 3: emotionally hijacking to people, so I think, and also oversharing

723
00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:53,799
Speaker 3: can lower trust. So I've been that's been something I've

724
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:55,920
Speaker 3: been processing a lot this year. So that would be

725
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:56,880
Speaker 3: my number seventeen.

726
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:58,400
Speaker 2: I like that.

727
00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,839
Speaker 1: I thought about that a lot too since that conversation,

728
00:37:04,280 --> 00:37:06,440
Speaker 1: which was I want to say six months ago or

729
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:07,200
Speaker 1: something like that.

730
00:37:07,440 --> 00:37:08,879
Speaker 2: I don't know who the year got come.

731
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 4: It was a blur.

732
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 2: And I thought.

733
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 1: About that when I actually had one of my teammates,

734
00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 1: Ali Solly, on the podcast to unpack the year of

735
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,799
Speaker 1: twenty twenty four, which was just like an objectively shit

736
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:28,400
Speaker 1: year for Inventium, and she and I were talking about

737
00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 1: how I had built trust with her because we hadn't

738
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:37,799
Speaker 1: had a lot to do with each other until gosh,

739
00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: like I wasn't even like her manager until like December

740
00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: November December last year, so a year ago. And what

741
00:37:48,560 --> 00:37:53,200
Speaker 1: she did in and this was in August twenty twenty four,

742
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: She's accredited in this particular well being survey and it

743
00:37:57,160 --> 00:37:59,000
Speaker 1: was something that we were thinking about bringing on to

744
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:02,279
Speaker 1: invent Him and you know, maybe like licensing it or

745
00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: something like that, and so I wanted to try it.

746
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a guinea pig. I did it.

747
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,880
Speaker 1: It's it's quite it goes into quite personal information in

748
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: terms of it's work well being, but it's personal well being.

749
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 2: And Ali then did the debrief with me, and I

750
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,080
Speaker 2: remember at the time going how.

751
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,560
Speaker 1: Much is appropriate for me to share, because you know,

752
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 1: it was it was eight months into just the you know,

753
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: a year of burnout and you know a lot of

754
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 1: a lot of you know, challenges, and I remember at

755
00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:30,240
Speaker 1: the time, I just thought, well, you know, the debrief

756
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,719
Speaker 1: isn't going to be helpful if I'm not honest. And

757
00:38:33,239 --> 00:38:35,959
Speaker 1: I don't think I overshared, but but I do think, oh,

758
00:38:36,080 --> 00:38:38,319
Speaker 1: that's that sometimes can be a fine line. And she

759
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 1: spoke about that moment as the first stepping stone where

760
00:38:43,200 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: she really felt trust with me because I chose to

761
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: share things that were quite personal. And I thought of

762
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,760
Speaker 1: that conversation that you and I had, and I think

763
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,080
Speaker 1: it's kind of Look, it's easy to say, but I

764
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: also think, how do you know when you've gone into

765
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,000
Speaker 1: oversh sharing versus just being vulnerable?

766
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, how do you know?

767
00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:06,160
Speaker 2: How do you know?

768
00:39:06,280 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 4: Do you know?

769
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:08,600
Speaker 2: What do you think about that one?

770
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:09,480
Speaker 4: Yeah?

771
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 3: I think usually when it's oversharing, I think there's a

772
00:39:13,800 --> 00:39:18,480
Speaker 3: couple of things at play. Number One, Sometimes I think

773
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 3: it evolves something more than just you. So if you're

774
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 3: oversharing and you're actually in some capacity either undermining trust

775
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 3: of someone else, so you're sharing something that's not actually

776
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 3: with it like you're undermining confidence or confidentiality of someone else.

777
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:34,279
Speaker 4: So I think there's an element of that.

778
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:40,520
Speaker 3: The other thing is when you're processing something in a

779
00:39:40,560 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 3: way that I think is.

780
00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 4: And a psychologist told me this.

781
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:48,680
Speaker 3: Actually I've got it from him, but he used the

782
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,840
Speaker 3: term emotional hijacking, and that helped me when he's like,

783
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 3: oversharing has an element of it can be emotionally hijacking.

784
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,919
Speaker 3: So I don't think vulnerability ever feels like that. Vulnerability

785
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 3: feels like, oh I understand you better. That's the gift

786
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 3: of vulnerability. It's like, oh, I understand that about you,

787
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:09,480
Speaker 3: and I love like I know how Brene Brown defines

788
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 3: vulnerability is emotional exposure, so it's usually about you, whereas

789
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:20,000
Speaker 3: I think oversharing tends to have elements of you wanting

790
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: something from someone. There's maybe sometimes other objectives. You may

791
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,160
Speaker 3: be bringing other people's personal stuff into the mix, and

792
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,800
Speaker 3: that's where that emotional hijacking comes in, because the person

793
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 3: on the receiving end of that is like, what do

794
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:34,360
Speaker 3: I do with this? There's a level of overwhelm. So

795
00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 3: I think there's I mean, and I guess it goes

796
00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 3: to what you said. It's hard to know the difference.

797
00:40:38,680 --> 00:40:41,760
Speaker 3: I think sometimes we learn by error. We go afterwards.

798
00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:45,279
Speaker 3: We feel like after you've overshared, you can feel like,

799
00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:47,960
Speaker 3: oh shit, I don't know if I should have said that,

800
00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 3: But after you've been vulnerable, you're like, I feel relief

801
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 3: and I feel connection, very different feelings after the fact.

802
00:40:55,520 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 3: So I think that almost becomes a data point in

803
00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,160
Speaker 3: and of itself that I take that away and I'm like, Okay, no,

804
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,359
Speaker 3: I probably stepped over the line there versus this other time.

805
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:05,919
Speaker 3: I felt like there's this genuine connection and trust, as

806
00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:10,399
Speaker 3: you say, because of that, I.

807
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 1: Like that that it's about how you walk away feeling

808
00:41:14,239 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: that can be a good indication of whether you whether

809
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: you got it right.

810
00:41:18,680 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 4: I like that, where do you cross the line or not?

811
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 4: Are we up to eight?

812
00:41:23,080 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: We are eighteen eighteen? Is that right?

813
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:26,520
Speaker 4: I think we're I think we're eighteen.

814
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: Okay, So it's me no, no, no, I'm the even.

815
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:32,319
Speaker 4: Oh I'm the odd n.

816
00:41:34,600 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's my turn again. I've got more to say.

817
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 3: I'd like to overshoot it out.

818
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: I'd like to be even and odd numbers, Thank you

819
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: very much, Okay, okay, all right, so eighteen gosh, I

820
00:41:50,080 --> 00:41:51,799
Speaker 1: don't I'm just trying to think what the bigger learning.

821
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: When I was writing down learning is just having a

822
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: bit of a brain dump with myself. I wrote this

823
00:41:56,440 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: because it's an important lesson for me, but I'm just

824
00:41:58,160 --> 00:41:59,279
Speaker 1: trying to think what's the bigger learning?

825
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 2: But we can try to that.

826
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:05,880
Speaker 1: So so a little while ago, I was a finalist

827
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: in these awards for AI Consultant of the Year and and.

828
00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 2: It was like it was really competitive.

829
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,279
Speaker 1: There were ten finalists, uh neo, and I flew up

830
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: to Sydney for the awards night.

831
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,040
Speaker 2: I just had no chance of winning.

832
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,920
Speaker 1: But we thought, oh, look, let's go and we'll get

833
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,160
Speaker 1: some good photos for the socials and that and that

834
00:42:25,360 --> 00:42:28,040
Speaker 1: and and you know, we'll do some meetings and stuff

835
00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: while we're up there. And I remember in the morning

836
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,960
Speaker 1: I thought, like on the plane, like should I prepare

837
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,799
Speaker 1: a speech? And then I thought, no, that feels so

838
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,880
Speaker 1: arrogant a man that like, how dare you even entertain

839
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,400
Speaker 1: the thought that you could win this award? Like you

840
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: you're you're you're not worthy. And so I remember I

841
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:50,960
Speaker 1: had like a quick five minute conversation with chat GPT

842
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:55,280
Speaker 1: and you know, and just tried to work on something.

843
00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,440
Speaker 1: But of course I didn't memorize anything because I just

844
00:42:58,440 --> 00:42:59,840
Speaker 1: sort of put it out of my head. I almost

845
00:42:59,880 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 1: did it tokenistically just to go I will, at least

846
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,600
Speaker 1: you've done like a little bit of prep. But I

847
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,000
Speaker 1: hadn't because nothing actually sunk into my brain. And then

848
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: on the night I ended up winning, which was like

849
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:12,480
Speaker 1: just the most massive shock.

850
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 2: It was.

851
00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: It genuinely was. And I don't say that to be modest.

852
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,480
Speaker 1: I really thought I had no chance because I am

853
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:20,359
Speaker 1: someone that comes to things prepared. I'm very diligent, as

854
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 1: I mentioned, very conscientious, and it's unlike me to not

855
00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: be prepared, but I but I didn't. And so I

856
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:28,680
Speaker 1: think for me, the lesson that I took from that

857
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: is write a fucking speech, Amantha, Because I got up

858
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: there and like the you know, and I, you know,

859
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:39,840
Speaker 1: thanks some people, But then, you know, I didn't say

860
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:43,040
Speaker 1: things that I would have wanted to say, you know,

861
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,680
Speaker 1: in front of a room of like four hundred people,

862
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,920
Speaker 1: and I kind of the moment was great, but I

863
00:43:48,960 --> 00:43:52,840
Speaker 1: also really regretted the fact that I didn't just go, well,

864
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:57,840
Speaker 1: just write it, like just write it, and you know,

865
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:02,400
Speaker 1: and yeah, I don't know what the bigger learning is

866
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:03,279
Speaker 1: there but it.

867
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:04,880
Speaker 2: Was a real It was a lesson for me.

868
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 3: What I'm curious like around that for you if it

869
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:16,479
Speaker 3: was when you're thinking about, oh, there's just no way

870
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 3: we could win. What that signals for you? Like what

871
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 3: like as you think of that, is it? Yeah, I'm

872
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 3: just I'm interested when you think about that question there's

873
00:44:29,360 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 3: just no way we can win or there's no way.

874
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:36,360
Speaker 3: That's so I'm not even entertaining that. Is that limiting belief?

875
00:44:36,520 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 3: Is that like what is that for you? Or is

876
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 3: it just more like humility? Like I don't know, Like

877
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 3: what do you think?

878
00:44:42,880 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 4: I think?

879
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: I just don't think I genuinely didn't deserve it. Like

880
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: I looked at the other fire loss, so I'm like,

881
00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:56,319
Speaker 1: you guys know so much more than me.

882
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 2: It was generally men. You guys, ah, I think there

883
00:44:58,680 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: are a couple of other women.

884
00:45:00,040 --> 00:45:05,000
Speaker 1: And I thought like yeah, sure, Like I think I am.

885
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: I can recognize that I'm a really good advocate for

886
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,719
Speaker 1: making AI accessible through through the different platforms that I have,

887
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:13,720
Speaker 1: and I think just through the way my brain works,

888
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 1: I'm good at making I think complex things practical. That's

889
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,920
Speaker 1: like a bit of a superpower. But I don't like

890
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:24,120
Speaker 1: I look at the work that Neo that heads up

891
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,120
Speaker 1: our AI programs that Inventium does, and he lives and

892
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:30,880
Speaker 1: breathes AI every single day. I just, you know, he

893
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 1: would have been so much more worthy than me. And yeah,

894
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 1: so I think I just I didn't feel worthy of it.

895
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: And therefore I thought, well, this feels really self indulgent

896
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,400
Speaker 1: to actually prepare and write a speech.

897
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 3: Oh that's like I mean that I didn't feel worthy

898
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:55,040
Speaker 3: of it.

899
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 4: I reckon is there's something in that.

900
00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 2: There's a therapy session in that.

901
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, a bit, but like, do you know it's because

902
00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:06,560
Speaker 3: it's actually like made me remember one of the pods

903
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:09,759
Speaker 3: that I felt and if I tack on to the

904
00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:13,840
Speaker 3: back of this, so you're number eighteen to number nineteen,

905
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,239
Speaker 3: which kind of links in.

906
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,320
Speaker 4: The podcast.

907
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,920
Speaker 3: I probably found most like hard hitting for me. This

908
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 3: year that we did was with Don Price, our mutual friend,

909
00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:30,400
Speaker 3: and he said to me, Shelle, it was such a

910
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,520
Speaker 3: I nearly cried on the episode. I was like I

911
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 3: had to take a moment. I was like, oh, yeah, yeah,

912
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:38,399
Speaker 3: this is so hectic. And he's like, I think your

913
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 3: big challenge is worthiness. He's like, I don't think you

914
00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,120
Speaker 3: think you're worthy. And so when you say I didn't

915
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:50,080
Speaker 3: feel worthy of deserving it. He had said, Shell, sometimes

916
00:46:50,120 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 3: I think you're playing small because you don't think you're worthy.

917
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,319
Speaker 4: And I was like, holy shit.

918
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,840
Speaker 3: I just like he's just like it hits such a

919
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 3: because I felt there was so much truth to what

920
00:47:02,120 --> 00:47:02,720
Speaker 3: he was saying.

921
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 4: And he's like.

922
00:47:05,160 --> 00:47:07,800
Speaker 3: He was saying, play big, stop playing small, like that

923
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 3: you have to tackle this issue of worthiness and can

924
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 3: and seeing yourself as worthy. And I remember, like, so

925
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 3: we were recording that party in a studio with a

926
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:23,080
Speaker 3: whole bunch of people there. There was like three people

927
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:27,080
Speaker 3: watching while we were recording it, and I asked Goot

928
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 3: on my team. He's like, I could tell you were

929
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:34,200
Speaker 3: about to cry. And I was like, hold it together,

930
00:47:34,239 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 3: hold it together, because I didn't want to, you know,

931
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 3: overshare on that episode.

932
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:39,319
Speaker 4: But like it was.

933
00:47:40,880 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 3: Just hearing you say that I didn't feel like worthy

934
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 3: of deserving that. And then you get it. And so

935
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:48,840
Speaker 3: people out there see you as worthy. But if you

936
00:47:48,840 --> 00:47:51,560
Speaker 3: don't see yourself as worthy, how does that actually impact

937
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 3: the way you show up, the way you take risks

938
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,279
Speaker 3: in your career, the way you lead your business. And

939
00:47:56,360 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 3: for me, I've had to wrestle through that that's been

940
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:03,680
Speaker 3: a big thing this year. And yeah, so confronting the

941
00:48:06,040 --> 00:48:08,600
Speaker 3: playing big and knowing you're worthy.

942
00:48:11,320 --> 00:48:13,680
Speaker 2: Wow, that's huge, isn't it.

943
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,239
Speaker 1: It's funny because my experience of you is that you

944
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,720
Speaker 1: just seem so comfortable in your own skin.

945
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 2: And isn't that funny?

946
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 4: I knows it's weird, isn't it? Anyway?

947
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:25,920
Speaker 2: Yeah?

948
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:32,880
Speaker 1: Wow, Okay, we're twenty twenty twenty okay, and I'm just

949
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:35,120
Speaker 1: because I've got three more and I'm like, oh, do

950
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:37,080
Speaker 1: I just finish? I'm going to finish with like a

951
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,839
Speaker 1: couple of just small, practical, slightly frivolous but important ones.

952
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:43,960
Speaker 2: So I'll go I'll go with this one as twenty. Okay.

953
00:48:44,080 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: So, something that I learned from the transformation that Inventium

954
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: did from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five is that,

955
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 1: like often and maybe this is a small business thing,

956
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: it's probably a small business thing, but equally applies to teams,

957
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:00,160
Speaker 1: I think, because I think teams have their own culture.

958
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:02,880
Speaker 1: Actually hard for like an organization to have a culture

959
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:06,520
Speaker 1: that's just identical across all the teams. But for me,

960
00:49:07,040 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 1: and I've learned this lesson a couple of times with

961
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:13,040
Speaker 1: Inventium that culture can turn around surprisingly quickly with the

962
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: right combination of people and enough trust. And I think

963
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: that that is counterintuitive because often we talk about it

964
00:49:19,520 --> 00:49:22,560
Speaker 1: takes years to change a culture, but my experience is

965
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 1: that it can actually happen very very quickly.

966
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 4: Do you know what that's I love that because I

967
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 4: think we heard that.

968
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:31,880
Speaker 3: I don't know where this came from, but there was

969
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:35,720
Speaker 3: some thing going around of like it takes seven years

970
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,279
Speaker 3: to reinvent or culturally transform, And I love hearing you

971
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,480
Speaker 3: say no, no, if you have the if you have

972
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 3: the right people and you get them aligned, you can

973
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:47,280
Speaker 3: move it faster than you think.

974
00:49:47,520 --> 00:49:51,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I think that's a relief. I think so

975
00:49:51,160 --> 00:49:51,600
Speaker 2: as well.

976
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:55,840
Speaker 1: And you know, look, I I you know, if someone

977
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: would have reminded me of that, because I kind of

978
00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,000
Speaker 1: knew it from another experience I'd had many years ago

979
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:02,799
Speaker 1: with Inventium, but I think I would have really liked

980
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,839
Speaker 1: someone to remind me of that during twenty twenty four,

981
00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: where I felt like the culture was not the culture

982
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,640
Speaker 1: that I knew and loved about Inventium, And twenty twenty

983
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,480
Speaker 1: five has just been It's done a one eighty and

984
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:19,360
Speaker 1: work has just been an absolute joy consistently for the

985
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:19,799
Speaker 1: whole year.

986
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:24,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, someone at the end of this year is going

987
00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:26,279
Speaker 3: to really benefit from hearing that, because they're going to

988
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:27,880
Speaker 3: look at their twenty twenty six and think, I've got

989
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,640
Speaker 3: to I've got to sort out my culture. Just knowing, Hey,

990
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:33,200
Speaker 3: if you get the right people and you define it,

991
00:50:33,280 --> 00:50:35,640
Speaker 3: you get clear on what the expectations are, it can

992
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:38,000
Speaker 3: really help to move move it faster.

993
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,160
Speaker 4: If we're talking about frivolous ones.

994
00:50:40,960 --> 00:50:43,879
Speaker 2: Oh, that wasn't my traveling one. No, that wasn't that's

995
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:45,640
Speaker 2: not priven, that was not privioless all.

996
00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 4: But if we can, if I will my terrible one. Oh,

997
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 4: this is so bad.

998
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 3: I got into journaling this year because I did the

999
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 3: Morning Pages. Have you heard of the Morning Pages?

1000
00:50:58,520 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1001
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:00,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So I did this.

1002
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:01,760
Speaker 4: Year for three months, twelve weeks.

1003
00:51:01,880 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 3: I tried to do it for and it really did

1004
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 3: help me with my monkey mind, and it's to get

1005
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 3: all your thoughts out there. And my learning from that is,

1006
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:14,600
Speaker 3: do not leave your journal in a conference meeting room,

1007
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 3: in a workshop that you're running.

1008
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:19,040
Speaker 4: Do not.

1009
00:51:19,640 --> 00:51:22,440
Speaker 3: And so I got on. I was in a place

1010
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,640
Speaker 3: that I will remain unnamed, got on the plane, got

1011
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:27,680
Speaker 3: in the morning, got my went to get my journal

1012
00:51:27,719 --> 00:51:30,040
Speaker 3: out to do my morning pages, and I was like,

1013
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:34,360
Speaker 3: where's my journal? And I'd left it in a public

1014
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 3: place and I'm contacted the person. I'm like, is my

1015
00:51:36,400 --> 00:51:39,319
Speaker 3: journal there? And they're like yep, oh, And I was like,

1016
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:39,879
Speaker 3: burn it.

1017
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 4: Burn it now. Oh my god.

1018
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:46,839
Speaker 3: So that's my frivolous And also again back to embarrassment,

1019
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 3: I have had many embarrassing moments this year, that being

1020
00:51:49,560 --> 00:51:50,040
Speaker 3: one of them.

1021
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:53,799
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Oh my gosh. Yeah, that's that's not cool.

1022
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 1: Oh wow, Okay, okay, Now I've got two frivolous ones,

1023
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:01,839
Speaker 1: so this is number two, and then twenty four will

1024
00:52:01,840 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 1: also be frivolous. So I during the middle of the

1025
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:09,280
Speaker 1: year when I was in peak book writing, which means

1026
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:14,040
Speaker 1: that I'm literally at my computer every day, often for hours.

1027
00:52:14,160 --> 00:52:17,520
Speaker 1: And when i'm when I'm early on in a manuscript

1028
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,560
Speaker 1: and Inventium does a four day week, but you know,

1029
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 1: the book stuff is outside of inventing and work and

1030
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,399
Speaker 1: so forth to stay so I literally work every single day.

1031
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: I have word count targets, and I'm spending a lot

1032
00:52:29,560 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 1: of time at the computer. I was getting shocking neck

1033
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,120
Speaker 1: and shoulder pain and I just felt like I was

1034
00:52:36,120 --> 00:52:36,839
Speaker 1: in chronic pain.

1035
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:37,479
Speaker 2: And so.

1036
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 1: A friend's husband, Sam's Daniel Grinberg. He's a chiropractor. He

1037
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: does a lot of work with workplaces and posture training.

1038
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,440
Speaker 1: He's so kindly came over to my home office and

1039
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:54,279
Speaker 1: spent the whole morning with me.

1040
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,840
Speaker 2: And I learned a lot of things from that.

1041
00:52:57,000 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: But I think the number one thing that that I

1042
00:53:00,400 --> 00:53:02,480
Speaker 1: thought I had no idea of this, but was really

1043
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,120
Speaker 1: helped a lot is that when you're setting yourself up

1044
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: in a good posture at your desk, make sure your

1045
00:53:07,719 --> 00:53:09,279
Speaker 1: forearms are supported.

1046
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,440
Speaker 4: And huh yeah.

1047
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 1: And I had never thought about that. I thought, oh,

1048
00:53:15,239 --> 00:53:18,160
Speaker 1: I know, my wrists, I think maybe needs support and

1049
00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: I need to be like at right angles and stuff.

1050
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:22,680
Speaker 1: But my forearms need to be supported because then it

1051
00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: sort of lets your your shoulders and neck relax and

1052
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: it's so much easier to type. And that was a

1053
00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:31,799
Speaker 1: game changer for me. So make sure your forearms are

1054
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: supported when you're at your computer typing.

1055
00:53:34,200 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 3: And as you said that, I put my forearms on

1056
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:37,680
Speaker 3: the table. But I was also thinking, if you're typing

1057
00:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,759
Speaker 3: an eighty thousand word manuscript, yes.

1058
00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:44,319
Speaker 1: You need good posture. In need, you need good ergonomics

1059
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 1: at the computer.

1060
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 4: Get you do any good economics? Do you know what? Actually?

1061
00:53:49,680 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 3: No, this was one and it's probably more frivolous, but

1062
00:53:52,920 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 3: I think underrated people on teams are easy laughers.

1063
00:53:58,280 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 4: Do you know people who laugh easily?

1064
00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:02,120
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1065
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 3: And I'm like, I was in a meeting the other

1066
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 3: day with someone and she just laughed so much and

1067
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,279
Speaker 3: I left with like a spring in my step. And

1068
00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 3: I was like, why did I leave feeling so good

1069
00:54:15,080 --> 00:54:16,919
Speaker 3: after that meeting? I was like, it's because she laughed

1070
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 3: a lot. And I don't think I wasn't being particularly funny, like,

1071
00:54:21,960 --> 00:54:25,359
Speaker 3: although I can be if you like, but like, I

1072
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,880
Speaker 3: just thought it was a really nice and so the

1073
00:54:27,880 --> 00:54:30,319
Speaker 3: way I wrote this was being an easy laugher is hot.

1074
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 4: But he did give me energy.

1075
00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:36,680
Speaker 3: I left feeling energized, and so I think it's an

1076
00:54:36,760 --> 00:54:40,239
Speaker 3: underrated career skill anyway. So that's my I would say,

1077
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:42,920
Speaker 3: that's a little twenty is that twenty three?

1078
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,879
Speaker 2: Twenty three? Twenty three? Yeah, I like that, Okay.

1079
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: Twenty four frivolous but important. This is another posture one

1080
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,920
Speaker 1: because I did think a lot about posture during this year.

1081
00:54:53,960 --> 00:54:56,319
Speaker 1: Is I know you and I both spend a lot

1082
00:54:56,320 --> 00:55:00,719
Speaker 1: of time on planes and my plane travel work, HAC

1083
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:05,239
Speaker 1: is to always travel with a next stand, So it's

1084
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:11,360
Speaker 1: a nex stand laptop stand. So it is a little

1085
00:55:11,360 --> 00:55:15,160
Speaker 1: plastic device. I will I'll share a link with us

1086
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:16,960
Speaker 1: so we can put it in our show notes. And

1087
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: it's basically like it folds up to the size of

1088
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 1: like if you think about gosh, it's like about sort

1089
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:31,160
Speaker 1: of thirty centimeters long, folds up really lightweight, like would

1090
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 1: I don't know, way like two or three hundred grams

1091
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 1: or something like that maybe, and you just sort of

1092
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 1: pull it apart. And then what I do is I

1093
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:42,440
Speaker 1: put that on my lap when I'm working on planes.

1094
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:44,880
Speaker 1: Where you know, for most people if they're on their

1095
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:46,799
Speaker 1: laptop on planes as a low people are when they're

1096
00:55:46,840 --> 00:55:50,000
Speaker 1: traveling for work, you're just you're in this hunched over

1097
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: position and it's not good and the screen's really low,

1098
00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:56,040
Speaker 1: so your head is looking down, which puts a strain

1099
00:55:56,080 --> 00:55:58,480
Speaker 1: on your neck. And so this basically puts the screen

1100
00:55:58,560 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: closer to eye height and it means that your arms

1101
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,040
Speaker 1: are kind of at right angles when you're typing. And

1102
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:07,720
Speaker 1: I also i'd like I use it when I travel

1103
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:11,239
Speaker 1: all the time, but particularly on planes. I just I

1104
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: cannot rate this next stand laptop stand highly enough, total

1105
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:17,760
Speaker 1: game changer.

1106
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:20,640
Speaker 3: I've written that down because I feel like I need this.

1107
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:22,719
Speaker 3: But I also when you said next stand, I thought

1108
00:56:22,719 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 3: you meant a stand for.

1109
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:25,640
Speaker 2: Your next just propery head up.

1110
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 3: I was just like envisioning you that. But then I'm like, oh, no,

1111
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,959
Speaker 3: a laptop stand. Okay, good, I have written that down

1112
00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,359
Speaker 3: my last one twenty five.

1113
00:56:33,719 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 4: Wow, we got there. We did this well. How it'd

1114
00:56:36,680 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 4: go for time?

1115
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 3: Someone said this to me this year and it stuck

1116
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,239
Speaker 3: with me, Amantha so much. It was really beautiful the

1117
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:50,160
Speaker 3: way they framed it in their work in elite sports,

1118
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:56,799
Speaker 3: very accomplished, high performer, super amazing career. Quite anyway, they

1119
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:58,879
Speaker 3: said this, the wins are never as good as you think,

1120
00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:00,959
Speaker 3: and the losses are never as bad as you think.

1121
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:01,840
Speaker 4: Keep going.

1122
00:57:02,800 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 3: And for someone who literally has had their whole career,

1123
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 3: like a long career in elite sports, winning and losing,

1124
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:14,840
Speaker 3: and has had a lot of wins, like huge, huge wins,

1125
00:57:17,080 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 3: I did think there is something really powerful about that

1126
00:57:20,560 --> 00:57:26,440
Speaker 3: lens of we put so much weight on when we

1127
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:31,360
Speaker 3: have those losses and fails, and we absolutely berayed ourselves

1128
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 3: self criticism kicks in, but I just like the balance

1129
00:57:35,680 --> 00:57:37,440
Speaker 3: in it, Like, actually, the wins are never as good

1130
00:57:37,480 --> 00:57:40,280
Speaker 3: and the losses are never as bad. Just keep going.

1131
00:57:40,320 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 3: It's the momentum that matters. And I have like just

1132
00:57:44,680 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 3: scribbled that down and reminded and reminded myself of that

1133
00:57:47,720 --> 00:57:50,240
Speaker 3: when I have either a win or a loss, of

1134
00:57:50,320 --> 00:57:51,880
Speaker 3: just going, you know what, just keep going.

1135
00:57:53,120 --> 00:57:53,680
Speaker 2: I like that.

1136
00:57:53,720 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 1: I like that it reminds me of the quote this

1137
00:57:56,400 --> 00:57:58,880
Speaker 1: too shall pass. I feel like it's a bit of

1138
00:57:58,880 --> 00:58:01,680
Speaker 1: a leveler. It's like, Okay, this too, sh'll pass, and

1139
00:58:01,720 --> 00:58:04,400
Speaker 1: if it's really bad, just remembering it will pass. But

1140
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: also if it's really good, it will pass as well,

1141
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:09,920
Speaker 1: and so savor it. It's kind of not saying the

1142
00:58:09,920 --> 00:58:11,880
Speaker 1: same thing, but for some reason, it just reminds me

1143
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: of it. And that's that's like a little bantra that

1144
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,960
Speaker 1: I often have going around in my head. We have

1145
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: made it, Shalli, we did it twenty five minits in

1146
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:25,640
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five.

1147
00:58:26,520 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 2: I think we need to do an annual ritual here.

1148
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 4: I should.

1149
00:58:30,240 --> 00:58:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, kudos to you for thinking of the theme. I

1150
00:58:32,880 --> 00:58:33,520
Speaker 2: love it well.

1151
00:58:33,680 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 3: Also, I think like I think this, you know, we

1152
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:38,600
Speaker 3: could have gone on for much longer.

1153
00:58:38,600 --> 00:58:39,560
Speaker 4: We could have got to fifty.

1154
00:58:39,560 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 3: I reckon that, you know what, the time does not permit,

1155
00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:45,920
Speaker 3: so twenty five things. Let us know if there's something

1156
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 3: that resonates most with you, and share this with someone.

1157
00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 4: Get the pod out there.

1158
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:56,200
Speaker 3: Yes, was so great stating with you, so good chatting

1159
00:58:56,240 --> 00:58:58,320
Speaker 3: with you. Twenty twenty five. Baby, we did it.

1160
00:58:58,600 --> 00:59:01,240
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1161
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,920
Speaker 1: I love that a year can feel chaotic while you're

1162
00:59:03,920 --> 00:59:05,320
Speaker 1: in it, and then you sit down with a friend,

1163
00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,280
Speaker 1: compare notes, and suddenly the whole thing makes a lot

1164
00:59:08,400 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: more sense. I hope that you picked up a useful

1165
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:13,640
Speaker 1: tip or two, and maybe this even triggered some of

1166
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:16,960
Speaker 1: your own reflections on the year that has been. Thank

1167
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:20,040
Speaker 1: you so much for listening, and have a wonderful, RESTful

1168
00:59:20,160 --> 00:59:23,920
Speaker 1: holiday season. If you like today's show, make sure you

1169
00:59:24,040 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: hit follow on your podcast app to be alerted when

1170
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 1: new episodes drop. How I Work was recorded on the

1171
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,200
Speaker 1: traditional land of the Warrangery People, part of the Cool

1172
00:59:33,240 --> 00:59:35,760
Speaker 1: and Nation. A big thank you to Martin Nimber for

1173
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:36,880
Speaker 1: doing the sound mix.