Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload.
Speaker 2: The podcast speak.
Speaker 1: The line, Hey everyone, welcome back to TV Reload. I
Speaker 1: want to thank you for clicking and downloading on today's
Speaker 1: episode featuring actor and activist Samuel Johnson, who will feature
Speaker 1: in tonight's ABC's Australian Story. I hope many of you
Speaker 1: tune in at eight pm as his episode screens on
Speaker 1: Freedoware Television, and if you are catching up with this
Speaker 1: podcast later in the week by then you will be
Speaker 1: able to view this episode on iView, the Australian Broadcast
Speaker 1: Company's digital platform. I am the biggest fan of Samuel
Speaker 1: Johnson since the moment he uttered his first few words
Speaker 1: on Secret Love of Us in two thousand and one.
Speaker 1: I feel like I joined many Australians instantaneously falling in
Speaker 1: love with his warmth, his accessibility and storytelling. There's no
Speaker 1: secrets about Sam's life in terms of his highs and lows.
Speaker 1: You don't actually have to look far beyond that affable
Speaker 1: laric and smile to know that he has quite the
Speaker 1: story to tell. I've been patiently waiting for this moment,
Speaker 1: knowing that at some point Sam would be asked to
Speaker 1: share his story on this brilliant show, which for decades
Speaker 1: has been showcasing amazing Australian stories. Samuel Johnson is the
Speaker 1: sort of guy to win a Gold LOGI, win Dancing
Speaker 1: with the Stars, raise twenty million dollars, take on the
Speaker 1: extraordinary if he puts his.
Speaker 3: Mind to it. There is this inner.
Speaker 1: Superhero ability about this man that most of us could
Speaker 1: only dream of possessing. But the man behind those achievements
Speaker 1: is also a man who has weathered more than a
Speaker 1: few storms. The grief and loss in his life could
Speaker 1: very easily have destroyed him, and yet he surfaces time
Speaker 1: and time again to share his story, winning audiences with
Speaker 1: his vulnerability and his honesty. My chat belly scratches the
Speaker 1: surface on what we will see tonight on Australian Story,
Speaker 1: but I did get to ask him a few quick
Speaker 1: questions about some of his life achievements, from Secret Life
Speaker 1: of Us to the success of his charity Love Your Sister.
Speaker 3: We also talk.
Speaker 1: About the decision in saying yes to featuring on Australian Story,
Speaker 1: what he guessed they would ask and if he was
Speaker 1: scared with some of the topics that he knew they
Speaker 1: would no doubt require him to share. I hope that
Speaker 1: you loved this episode and this chat. I feel like
Speaker 1: it was a privilege and a gift to be able
Speaker 1: to have some time with sam this morning. And one
Speaker 1: thing I walked away from this conversation was a continued
Speaker 1: admiration for Samuel Johnson for his humility and bravery and guys,
Speaker 1: my hope is that you get to.
Speaker 3: Connect to that too.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hey, here you go.
Speaker 3: I'm good mate, How are you good?
Speaker 2: Thanks?
Speaker 1: You're up early to be talking about Australian story this morning.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been doing it for a little while now.
Speaker 4: It's a beautiful morning.
Speaker 1: It is absolutely amazing. It's started at that point of
Speaker 1: Victoria where it's freezing but you're kind of enjoying it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, it's both.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit of both.
Speaker 1: And I know that you're out in the sort of
Speaker 1: regional Victoria and you really get the cold.
Speaker 3: It bites you there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm posting now.
Speaker 4: And so so three days a week I get up
Speaker 4: early and drive through the cold and get introduced to
Speaker 4: the day and it's pretty unforgiving at nighttime at this
Speaker 4: time of year.
Speaker 1: We're talking about australis story. And I have to ask
Speaker 1: you straight away, were you scared when you signed up
Speaker 1: to do this show? Because we know with this show
Speaker 1: that they're going to ask you robust questions about your life,
Speaker 1: and that must be a little bit scary in some ways.
Speaker 4: I wrecked the alligator a bit. I mean, none of
Speaker 4: us are immune. You know, I thought suicide might come up.
Speaker 4: I thought usage might come up. You know, I've done
Speaker 4: life just like all of us, and you know, it's
Speaker 4: a mixture of victories and face plants, and I knew
Speaker 4: they'd go there, but at the same time, I kind
Speaker 4: of respect them for that, And you know, I think
Speaker 4: I think life's too short not to go there.
Speaker 2: And I've got nothing to hide. It's scars and all.
Speaker 1: I mean, the format goes deep, and I guess it
Speaker 1: works best when the people that sign up to this
Speaker 1: show allow themselves to be vulnerable. And you know, Sam,
Speaker 1: when I think about you and I think about your
Speaker 1: career and what we know of you, I think you
Speaker 1: are also at your best when you're vulnerable and you
Speaker 1: share your story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, my dad used to say when I was growing up, Like,
Speaker 4: I don't know whether I'm allowed to say this, but
Speaker 4: this is what my dad used to say, I don't
Speaker 4: care if you bullshit me, just don't bullshit yourself. So
Speaker 4: I was taught from a young age not to lie
Speaker 4: to myself. So I don't walk around this planet thinking
Speaker 4: that I'm any better than I am. And you know,
Speaker 4: I just try not to be.
Speaker 2: A tured beggar.
Speaker 4: It's what we all try, you know, We're just it's
Speaker 4: a seesaw, isn't it. You know, it's the angel on
Speaker 4: one side and it's the devil on the other.
Speaker 3: And oh, you've got any more wedding hanging a thing?
Speaker 2: I know you that you that I'm not too sure.
Speaker 2: Sorry about that. I must have I pressed something with
Speaker 2: my take. Sorry about that.
Speaker 3: That's a story of my life, mate. I do that
Speaker 3: all the time. I'll be on the.
Speaker 1: Phone to my mum, and because we talk in such
Speaker 1: long bursts, we don't realize that in actual fact, we accepted
Speaker 1: another phone call and are probably telling a stranger from
Speaker 1: a really personal story. And I think they don't appreciate it.
Speaker 1: I mean, they probably think this is very strange for
Speaker 1: a person to be telling them this.
Speaker 2: I'm starting to think I might have a cheek line.
Speaker 3: It's a good way. It's a good way to put it.
Speaker 3: Do you know what's funny?
Speaker 1: You were talking about your dad and you're talking about
Speaker 1: that saying that you that he shared with you. I
Speaker 1: grew up in I grew up in Melbourne, so I
Speaker 1: often would go to pubs and bars to hang out,
Speaker 1: as we all did growing up. And I remember meeting
Speaker 1: your dad with one of your sisters. Now I can't
Speaker 1: remember which sister Sam it was, but they're playing pool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And.
Speaker 1: I remember having a conversation with him, and he was
Speaker 1: a very wise person, who's very open a lot of
Speaker 1: the things that I perceive you to be without really
Speaker 1: knowing you personally.
Speaker 4: I am I'm so stoked to hear that. I'm not
Speaker 4: very delicate, but he was very graceful. I'm very vulgar
Speaker 4: and ghost but he was very dignified. I'm very verbose,
Speaker 4: and you know, I travel at one hundred and ten
Speaker 4: k's an hour, and he's very quiet and listened. He
Speaker 4: was very quiet and listened well. And he was admired
Speaker 4: by everyone, and he was like like everyone used to
Speaker 4: seek his advice. I mean, I was just so lucky
Speaker 4: in the dad lottery that I got a dad that
Speaker 4: you know, equipped me for this savagery we call life,
Speaker 4: and taught me to be nice to others and not
Speaker 4: to lie to myself.
Speaker 1: He was very generous, I think with his time. You know,
Speaker 1: someone had even pointed out they said that Samuel Johnson's
Speaker 1: father over there, and so I was probably a bit
Speaker 1: bold to go over there and have a game of
Speaker 1: pool with them because I was such a big fan
Speaker 1: of yours. It was around the time that Secret Life
Speaker 1: of Us was huge, so we're talking decades ago.
Speaker 2: Was it at DT's Molly Meldrum's.
Speaker 3: Pub, Yes, it was.
Speaker 1: I guess we shouldn't say this because he lives two
Speaker 1: houses down to them. People try and find him, but yes,
Speaker 1: mainly because Molly has that policy where he leaves these
Speaker 1: front door open, so you don't want to tell people
Speaker 1: about where Molly lives because you know you can probably
Speaker 1: wonder inside and have a cup of tea with him
Speaker 1: at any time of the night.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I mean I've played playpool there on many occasions. I
Speaker 4: used to go and see Dad there about once a week,
Speaker 4: and Molly Meldrim helped me get out of a lawsuit
Speaker 4: where Russell Crowe was suing me, so so yeah, got
Speaker 4: a rich history with that pub and have had many
Speaker 4: a good times there.
Speaker 3: Have you been back there recently?
Speaker 2: About a year and a half ago, I popped him briefly.
Speaker 3: I haven't been back there in a long time either.
Speaker 4: I think it's the same place, but it's changed ownership.
Speaker 1: I mean it still has the Thames that have field.
Speaker 1: It's a bit of a nostalgia anyway. People like this
Speaker 1: is not your chance to interview Samuel Johnson's love of
Speaker 1: pub but it does lead me into the question of
Speaker 1: talking to you about vices. And you know, yesterday, when
Speaker 1: I was doing my research to talk to you today,
Speaker 1: I found something online which said something about are people's
Speaker 1: vices signs or clues that they are in fact in
Speaker 1: trouble or not addressing bigger issues? What are your thoughts
Speaker 1: on that kind of conversation about vices.
Speaker 4: I think we've all got vices, and I call it
Speaker 4: wrestling the alligator. And I think those vices can can
Speaker 4: bring the worst and the best out of it. I
Speaker 4: think if they're policed vigilantly, they can have a positive
Speaker 4: net effect. And I think as vices tend to do,
Speaker 4: I think if vices.
Speaker 2: Take control, then the outcome is not good.
Speaker 4: Most people, statistically, when they wrestle the alligator, they win
Speaker 4: and it's a positive experience. And then there's people that
Speaker 4: really enjoy their vices and that's where the outcomes aren't
Speaker 4: so positive. So it's something that I'm very aware of.
Speaker 4: I keep a usage diary myself. I'm going to an
Speaker 4: AA meeting next Monday. You know, I'm a posty in
Speaker 4: a country town, so I don't stay up too late
Speaker 4: the night before. We put things in place to try
Speaker 4: and learn how to wrestle the alligator better, you know,
Speaker 4: And I'm not sure that it's not as simple as
Speaker 4: a cold turkey thing for everyone, but it's important to
Speaker 4: keep an eye on it, to talk to others about it,
Speaker 4: and to do you best against it.
Speaker 1: Do you think that in some ways that Australia has
Speaker 1: a problem with alcohol.
Speaker 2: I think we used to.
Speaker 4: I think we used to live in a culture of alcohol,
Speaker 4: and I think we used to glorify it. Statistically, we're
Speaker 4: seeing that young people aren't drinking, they're not taking it up.
Speaker 4: It's not just going down, it's going well down. So
Speaker 4: we're seeing generationally that we're learning about that and we're
Speaker 4: changing our system. You know, we know that alcohol increases DV.
Speaker 4: We know that alcohol increases all kinds of things. There
Speaker 4: are health implications, there are social implications, there are familial implications,
Speaker 4: and we're drinking less and less and it's becoming less
Speaker 4: and less a part of our culture.
Speaker 2: It's more and more common to go out.
Speaker 4: These days and to be a a drinking establishment and
Speaker 4: to see people there that are off the booth and
Speaker 4: they're just having a lemonade.
Speaker 2: Good to see the culture changing before my eyes.
Speaker 1: I think it's changing, probably because you and I have
Speaker 1: the same age, you know. That's like even on the
Speaker 1: shows that we watched, you know, everyone was having drinks,
Speaker 1: Like even when we watch Secret Life of Us because
Speaker 1: I rewatched that show all the time because yeah on
Speaker 1: borderline obsessed, don't hold against it, And even watching that show,
Speaker 1: the way that we were drinking for that era, you know,
Speaker 1: it was a big way of socializing.
Speaker 4: And a steeped part of our culture, you know, and
Speaker 4: it's good to be that breaking down now. Part of
Speaker 4: that is talking about it more and not just seeing
Speaker 4: it as an essential thing to do to be an Australian,
Speaker 4: but a thing that has consequences, and we're seeing now
Speaker 4: people drop off. It's just old dinosaurs and relics like
Speaker 4: me that are still wrestling with it.
Speaker 1: Probably and me. All right, I think I found something
Speaker 1: in common there. There's a quote in tonight's episode, and
Speaker 1: this person who joins the show says, I can't imagine
Speaker 1: love your sister without you and vice versa. Have you
Speaker 1: had time to really reflect on the achievements of that charity,
Speaker 1: because when I looked, because of course I know about
Speaker 1: it and I've donated to it, but I had no
Speaker 1: idea the numbers that you've been able to raise.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've had time to reflect. We're at the twenty
Speaker 4: million dollar mark. I've had a lot of time to reflect.
Speaker 4: I've been crying for about three weeks. It's been one
Speaker 4: of the most amazing positive experiences in my life. I
Speaker 4: know it sounds like I looked like a mess, but Gesz, yes,
Speaker 4: I have had time to reflect on it, and it
Speaker 4: means an incredible amount to me. But I've got my
Speaker 4: sister's words echoing in my head. Sam, this isn't your money,
Speaker 4: and I'm a glorified megaphone, and the money comes from
Speaker 4: the people who are listening to you today.
Speaker 2: It comes from people like you. That's why I'm in
Speaker 2: service to you.
Speaker 4: Forever, and I've had time to reflect on it, and
Speaker 4: it's been a two way straight reciprocally. I don't believe
Speaker 4: in altruism. I think it's too simplistic. What I've tapped
Speaker 4: into and what I've been able to do and what
Speaker 4: I've been given.
Speaker 2: Back is astronomical.
Speaker 4: So we might have pulled together twenty million dollars for
Speaker 4: cancer research, but personally, all of those legends have given
Speaker 4: me a reason to live, so and that's priceless. So yes,
Speaker 4: it's donning achievement, but on a personal level, my heart
Speaker 4: is falling off. Sleep well at night, mate, and that's
Speaker 4: all one can ever hope for.
Speaker 1: I remember once I did a reality show and I
Speaker 1: came off at and had a really big following for
Speaker 1: a very short period of time, and I tried to
Speaker 1: join charities.
Speaker 3: I thought, you know what I want to do.
Speaker 1: I want to use this platform for something, And I
Speaker 1: did three charities in a row straight after doing this show, right,
Speaker 1: and I remember real I realized at that time it's
Speaker 1: very hard to ask people for money, you know, for
Speaker 1: a charity. And I don't know what it was about you,
Speaker 1: but so many people just were able to connect to
Speaker 1: your story and that story and hand it for money.
Speaker 4: It is really hard, challenging to ask for money. I
Speaker 4: was speaking to carry A big Moore a couple of
Speaker 4: weeks ago about it, and she too was talking about
Speaker 4: that exact same thing. I don't like asking people for money.
Speaker 4: It makes me very uncomfortable. I've had I've had thirteen
Speaker 4: years to try and get used to it. But I
Speaker 4: was just chatting with Carrie big More the other week
Speaker 4: about it. It's incredibly challenging, especially when you're asking people
Speaker 4: for money after you've already asked them before.
Speaker 2: You know. It's the ugly side of what I do.
Speaker 2: I don't enjoy it, but that is my job.
Speaker 4: I'm raising funds for hard science and luckily I'm not
Speaker 4: raising funds for me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm still I think I'll die uncomfortable with it.
Speaker 2: I don't like it.
Speaker 4: It's I don't want to monetize this pain. I don't
Speaker 4: want to ask people for their heart earned when they've
Speaker 4: got none, you know. I mean, we call it a
Speaker 4: cock a living crisis and never but basically everyone's broke.
Speaker 2: And you know, I'm still getting around saying, you know,
Speaker 2: science matters.
Speaker 4: You know, so yeah, don't I don't enjoy the money
Speaker 4: side of things particularly, and that's where I focus on. Actually,
Speaker 4: I need to just tell the country about precision medicine
Speaker 4: and cancer as well, and so I see myself not
Speaker 4: as a fundraiser but as a science communicator.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good way to put it. But also
Speaker 1: people buy you, do you know what I mean? There
Speaker 1: has to be something in the minutia or something. I
Speaker 1: don't think that's the right word. But you know, the
Speaker 1: fact that you're uncomfortable with asking for people for money,
Speaker 1: I think is a part of the fact that people.
Speaker 3: Will give it to you.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? It's that that you
Speaker 1: that you wrestle with that and you understand the importance
Speaker 1: of it is written on your face, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: So, and we always keep the arc more.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well we're not asking for gold, we're asking for
Speaker 4: any silver coins, you know. Like it's it's just like
Speaker 4: our twenty million didn't come from the high.
Speaker 2: End of town. It came from people like who found
Speaker 2: a couple of bucks in the last ten you know.
Speaker 4: It's look at I look at our quote demographic and
Speaker 4: we're not rich and so that makes up asking for
Speaker 4: help even harder because of people with less give more.
Speaker 3: That's right. Yeah, And it's a strange.
Speaker 1: It's a strange part of it before you go because
Speaker 1: I've run out of time that you know, my partner
Speaker 1: would kick me. He would come in and kick me
Speaker 1: if I didn't ask you anything about my favorite show,
Speaker 1: which is Secret Life of Us. He'd be like, you're embarrassing.
Speaker 1: Why didn't you ask him? Is something that he would say.
Speaker 1: But I was at SPA which is Screen Producers Australia
Speaker 1: last week, absorbing people talking about TV shows, and it
Speaker 1: dawned on me while I was sitting there, and I
Speaker 1: think every generation gets a Secret Life of Us where
Speaker 1: we tell a story, a scripted drama about young people.
Speaker 1: Do you think that in twenty twenty five, maybe it's
Speaker 1: time that maybe the Edwards family reboot that show and
Speaker 1: give the.
Speaker 3: Next generation something like that. What do you think?
Speaker 2: Absolutely not.
Speaker 4: I think we get we get amazing kind of offerings
Speaker 4: lately like Boy Swallows Universe, Oh yeah, which is about
Speaker 4: young people.
Speaker 2: And I found that Really, I think that.
Speaker 4: The Secret Life of Us was appropriate for that time.
Speaker 4: It could be rewritten into a world that belongs to today.
Speaker 2: But I mean, I.
Speaker 4: Don't know, it's flash in the pan, you know, like
Speaker 4: I feel like it works, then I'm not sure.
Speaker 2: It'd work now.
Speaker 4: You know, we're in a different world at different time,
Speaker 4: with a different perspective. I think even if you made
Speaker 4: a show these days about young people, that'd be really
Speaker 4: really different to the secret life of us.
Speaker 1: Well, before you go, the last question ask everyone is
Speaker 1: what is something from behind the scenes? And I usually
Speaker 1: ask something about something from behind the scenes. Can you
Speaker 1: explain when was the last time you're in a room
Speaker 1: with Deborah Melman and Claudia carvn Like, where has that
Speaker 1: ever happened?
Speaker 3: Again?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Absolutely, I've spoken to Dead Mailman a few times on
Speaker 4: the phone, and I've caught up with Cordial Caravan.
Speaker 2: Quite a bit, quite a bit.
Speaker 4: She helps out our cancer mob and I saw her
Speaker 4: about a year and a half ago when visited when
Speaker 4: I was in Sydney, maybe two years ago.
Speaker 2: We had a chat.
Speaker 4: About Dancing with the Stars. I told her it was
Speaker 4: a great thing to do. She did the next season
Speaker 4: of it, you know, so so yeah, we still catch up.
Speaker 4: But no, I haven't seen deb since. But I did
Speaker 4: pass here in the old days because we played spin
Speaker 4: the bottle.
Speaker 3: There you go, there's something that people may not know.
Speaker 1: Well, I would say Cloudic Cover's my favorite episode of
Speaker 1: Australian story so fast, but you might be back tonight
Speaker 1: beating that when you shop a story tonight. Thank you
Speaker 1: for being so gracious and talking to me, but thank
Speaker 1: you for being so open and reflecting on your story
Speaker 1: and I hope Australian audiences appreciate it as much as
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 4: Digits crossed and thank you so much. And I knew
Speaker 4: that there'd be a fan out there somewhere, a secret
Speaker 4: life of us, so it was.
Speaker 2: It was a pleasure to talk and.
Speaker 3: Text for your time.
Speaker 1: I were ready for it, you were ready for it,
Speaker 1: Joey turning to the media, mate and all the very best.
Speaker 2: Yeah to you too as well. And you've got the
Speaker 2: number call me if you need me.