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Speaker 1: A really big episode about body image last night on

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Speaker 1: Parental Guidance. It was episode three of season three. If

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Speaker 1: you missed it, you can catch up on the nine

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Speaker 1: Now app. Really really compelling, really heavy, really important conversations.

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Speaker 1: We're going to unpack it all this week on the

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast. Hello, my name is doctor Justin Colson.

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Speaker 1: I'm here with my wife missus Happy Families, Kylie, Kylie,

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Speaker 1: we were introduced to four new focus families.

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Speaker 2: Let's run through our parenting styles, Elvy and Sean.

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Speaker 3: We are authoritative parents.

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Speaker 4: We have high expectations on our children. In the meantime,

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Speaker 4: we set strict rules and boundaries, say.

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Speaker 3: Next month.

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Speaker 4: As authoritative parents, we don't really give our children too

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Speaker 4: much choice. We want them to be academically successful, to

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Speaker 4: get into a good profession.

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Speaker 3: So you're basically setting the goal high for them they

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Speaker 3: can work towards it.

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Speaker 4: Yes, we set to rules, we have high expectations. However,

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Speaker 4: the most important thing in our view is their health

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Speaker 4: and happiness.

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Speaker 2: Nick and Sophia where.

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Speaker 5: The positivity parents. Where confidence is key highness. As positivity parents,

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Speaker 5: we build up our children's self esteem every single day

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Speaker 5: by doing positive affirmations.

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Speaker 6: I can't hear.

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Speaker 5: You got to tell her out I am stop before,

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Speaker 5: Yes you are, Yes you are.

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Speaker 3: We've been blessed in the fact that Sophia is able

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Speaker 3: to work from home as a content creator and she's

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Speaker 3: incorporated our children within that sphere.

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Speaker 6: One two high that.

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Speaker 5: One.

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Speaker 3: We do.

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Speaker 5: Teach our children to have a healthy lifestyle, beautiful.

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Speaker 2: They love being physical and Amanda and her son.

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Speaker 3: We choose to parent the hard way. We don't take shortcuts.

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Speaker 3: It's hard on us. We're easy and fun for the

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Speaker 3: kids right as hardware parents. There's no easy way out.

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Speaker 3: We don't leave anyone behind. We all go do things together.

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Speaker 7: Yes, but when it comes to food, we don't allow junk.

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Speaker 7: We try to make everything from scratch. We actually choose

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Speaker 7: to parent our children. We model good behavior. When it

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Speaker 7: comes to body image. You can put kids down really

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Speaker 7: quickly with your words. Where they feel that we're happy

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Speaker 7: and proud of them, they feel proud of themselves.

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Speaker 8: Josh and Cassie, we are the life school parents and

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Speaker 8: we use real life experiences to educate our kids. As

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Speaker 8: a family of seven, we live in our truck and

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Speaker 8: caravan traveling around Australia.

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Speaker 7: We'd be traveling for like three years. They haven't been

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Speaker 7: to school for four years.

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Speaker 8: We just choose life schooling to a better way to learn.

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Speaker 6: What we are doing is a variant of homeschooling, taking

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Speaker 6: it out of the classroom and into the real world.

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Speaker 8: I think you got further than Spencer and are we

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Speaker 8: going against the norm?

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Speaker 9: Are one hundred percent? We're going against that?

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Speaker 8: Kids are healthy? Anyone could see that, well done, Jasper.

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Speaker 1: So before we talk about the big topic of body image,

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Speaker 1: we do need to talk briefly about the introductions to

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Speaker 1: these families, Josh and Cassie, our life school parents.

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Speaker 9: They caused a bit of a ruckus in the room.

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Speaker 8: Tests and school curriculums and.

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Speaker 6: Not no, they're not important s outdated.

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Speaker 7: But there is certain things they'll learn in the classroom

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Speaker 7: from someone that's been to university and done the curriculum

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Speaker 7: that you can't possibly teach them.

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Speaker 6: We'll just push back a little bit on that, because

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Speaker 6: what can the educational system teach that we don't have

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Speaker 6: the tools to teach our children. You know, with technology

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Speaker 6: like YouTube and things, I have tools and resources I

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Speaker 6: can lean on. So I am fully confident that if

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Speaker 6: their pursuit and their desire was to become a doctor.

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Speaker 6: They're going to go pursue that.

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Speaker 1: Kylie, Josh and Cassie are doing a they call it

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Speaker 1: a form of homeschooling. They call it life schooling. We're

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Speaker 1: homeschooling a couple of our kids, or we have at least,

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Speaker 1: and we're still homeschooling one of them at the moment.

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Speaker 1: What did you think about that conversation and this idea

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Speaker 1: that school is not for every child.

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Speaker 10: I agree with that. I think for so long we

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Speaker 10: fought to keep our kids in school based on this

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Speaker 10: idea and notion that it's a societal expectation that our

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Speaker 10: kids will be there, and it was just hurting them.

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Speaker 1: So I would say that our recent experience is over

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Speaker 1: the last two now we've only got one at home now,

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Speaker 1: but we had two. I would say that our experiences

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Speaker 1: with homeschooling continue to be overwhelmingly positive.

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Speaker 10: Challenging, but positive.

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Speaker 9: And what do you think.

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Speaker 1: About the I mean, there are a couple of teachers

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Speaker 1: in the room, but there was certainly some pushback, mainly

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Speaker 1: from the hardway parents who are like, no, no, no, you

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Speaker 1: can only learn some things at school.

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Speaker 10: So I don't believe that at all. But I also

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Speaker 10: don't believe that any parent can be everything to their child.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, definitely, And so if.

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Speaker 10: Homeschooling is your choice, then ensuring that your children are

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Speaker 10: supported with the right structures in place for them to

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Speaker 10: receive the necessary things of maths and English.

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Speaker 9: Reading, writing, arithmetic, yep is imperative.

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Speaker 1: So I know that I don't want to get bogged

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Speaker 1: too much into the life school parenting homeschool parenting situation,

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Speaker 1: because we're going to learn more about Josh and Cassie

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Speaker 1: as we go throughout the week. But I do just

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Speaker 1: want to highlight there was one question that was asked.

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Speaker 3: How do your kids feel about not going to school? Like,

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Speaker 3: have they came and told you want to go to school?

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Speaker 3: How would you handle it?

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Speaker 8: We check in with them really and we're like, do

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Speaker 8: you guys want to go to school?

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Speaker 11: And they're like no.

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Speaker 1: So, Carlie, I don't very often hear kids say Mum,

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Speaker 1: can I school? It's always the other I don't want

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Speaker 1: to go to school. And I wish Josh should pick

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Speaker 1: that up. I so badly wanted to say it in

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Speaker 1: the room, but obviously not my job to do that.

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Speaker 1: All right, let's fire up challenge number one. The first

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Speaker 1: challenge was to stand in front of the mirror mum

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Speaker 1: with kids and talk about their body image. That is,

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Speaker 1: how do kids see themselves?

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Speaker 7: What do you like about your body? Lamits?

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Speaker 3: I like my eyes in my head?

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Speaker 7: What do you like about your body? My nurse you

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Speaker 7: knows why.

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Speaker 1: Ellen.

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Speaker 7: We live in a world where having fillers and botox

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Speaker 7: and plastic surgeries sorry the norm these days, and I

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Speaker 7: want our children to know that they don't have to

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Speaker 7: change the way they look to be beautiful.

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Speaker 12: Are a few about your body image. I like my

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Speaker 12: hair and my teeth. I have bunions because I do ballet.

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Speaker 12: I have acne.

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Speaker 4: Is kind of sad.

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Speaker 6: I want to be colder.

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Speaker 8: I honestly think you look pretty good for your age.

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Speaker 11: Oh so I just rent note here about the boys.

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Speaker 11: They saw their abilities and what their bodies can do,

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Speaker 11: whereas girls see their physical features.

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Speaker 3: I noticed that a bit.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Amanda, you talked there about girls and fellers and botox.

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Speaker 7: I don't want them to feel pressure that they have

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Speaker 7: to fix up the way their face looks just because

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Speaker 7: you know other people are doing that.

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Speaker 5: I get botox and I don't see a problem with it.

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Speaker 5: It's nothing that crazy, and I don't think there should

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Speaker 5: be like such a stigma around it. And by me

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Speaker 5: getting botox, I don't feel like it's teaching my daughters

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Speaker 5: that they need to get They don't know that I've

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Speaker 5: had it done.

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Speaker 12: I've never done anything to my face or body, and

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Speaker 12: I don't dye my hair. I just believe that if

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Speaker 12: I want my children to believe that they are perfect

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Speaker 12: the way they are, which I believe they are, then

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Speaker 12: I need to reflect that in my behavior. If I

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Speaker 12: don't focus on my wrinkles, or my age or my weight,

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Speaker 12: then my kids won't either.

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Speaker 10: I was actually really impressed as each of these kids

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Speaker 10: were able to stand in front of the mirror and

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Speaker 10: for the most part acknowledge that they loved their bodies.

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Speaker 6: Yeah.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, it wasn't that nice.

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Speaker 10: It really was. The standout to me, though, was the acknowledgment.

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Speaker 10: For boys, they focused on what their bodies could do.

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Speaker 10: The girls, however, focused on their looks.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a bit of crossover, but that was

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Speaker 1: the main message that I got as well. Yeah, social

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Speaker 1: conditioning plays a really big part in this, and we

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Speaker 1: really do focus on boys and what they can do

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Speaker 1: it we focus on function, not.

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Speaker 9: Form, whereas with girls we focus on form, not function.

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Speaker 1: That's what society does. That's how we've been for decades, centuries.

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Speaker 9: Probably well, even.

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Speaker 10: The positivity daughter like she talked about having a six pack,

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Speaker 10: for instance, Right.

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Speaker 8: Tell mummy what you like about your body?

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Speaker 5: That I'm healthy, Yeah, beautiful, yeah, long hair, six pack,

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Speaker 5: six pack, So.

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Speaker 10: That would be generally something you'd hear from a boy.

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Speaker 10: But she still didn't focus on what that six pack

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Speaker 10: allowed her to do. I can to push up very much,

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Speaker 10: focus on her physicality.

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Speaker 1: So generally speaking, it was a good news story. Most

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Speaker 1: of the kids were reasonably happy with how they look.

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Speaker 1: You'll note that they were a fairly young cohort. As

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Speaker 1: a general rule, we're not looking at older kids teenagers

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Speaker 1: as a general rule.

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Speaker 10: And I was about to say that, just the acknowledgment.

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Speaker 10: When you're dealing with kids under about ten, generally speaking,

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Speaker 10: you're going to have that happy news story.

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Speaker 1: All right, here's the challenging conversation. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: I want to go here or not, but we're going

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Speaker 1: to do it anyway. The discussion devolved. It went on

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Speaker 1: a tangent here.

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Speaker 12: Mothers that want to get botox, I think they possibly

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Speaker 12: need a psychologist. To say it's in the danger zones

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Speaker 12: or healthy zones or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So botox fillers. There were some pretty strong opinions in

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Speaker 1: the room. We've got our hard way of parents who

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Speaker 1: was just saying no way, no way, Jose, and our

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Speaker 1: traditional parents who are also saying I've got to be

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Speaker 1: okay with who I am and how I am and

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Speaker 1: how I'm aging and what I look like as a

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Speaker 1: middle aged mum as opposed to trying to maintain the

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Speaker 1: fountain of youth. And then you've got other parents who

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Speaker 1: are like, yeah, I'm actually pretty cool with it.

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Speaker 10: There was definitely some divide, with Mark and Tammy having

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Speaker 10: very different viewpoints on what they thought was appropriate.

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Speaker 11: I've had botox before. I don't think it's bad to

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Speaker 11: role model botox and villas as a.

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Speaker 7: Parent, is it?

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Speaker 12: Do you? Yeah?

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Speaker 9: Crickets from Mark on that one, I think.

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Speaker 10: You might have been feeling a bit like you. This

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Speaker 10: is not a debate.

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Speaker 9: I want to weigh in on how do I answer

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Speaker 9: this question.

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Speaker 1: So I'm not actually going to come in hard with

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Speaker 1: an opinion on this, but I want to share a

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Speaker 1: little bit of evidence and a general I guess recognition

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Speaker 1: of a challenge here. Let me start with the evidence. Now,

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Speaker 1: this is not an area that I've researched, So I'm

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Speaker 1: just quoting a book now that's probably ten or fifteen

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Speaker 1: years old. I'm quoting Jonathan Hate, who everyone knows today

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Speaker 1: is the author of The Anxious Generation, but quite some

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Speaker 1: time ago he wrote his first book was called The

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Speaker 1: Happiness Hypothesis. In my mind, probably one of the best,

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Speaker 1: if not the best book about well being ever written.

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Speaker 9: I love that book. And in that book he highlights this.

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Speaker 1: Participating in plastic surgery having enhancements quote unquote to your

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Speaker 1: appearance is not associated with increases in well being. There

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Speaker 1: is a relationship between plastic surgery and low levels of wellbeing, depression, anxiety,

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Speaker 1: and other difficulties, with one exception, and that's breast augmentation.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, you can come up with some hypotheses

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Speaker 1: as to why that might be the case. I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to jump in with anything you might want to.

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Speaker 10: I would say that for the masses of women who

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Speaker 10: go through this process, the majority of them are actually

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Speaker 10: enhancing something that they feel they lack.

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Speaker 9: And that's what he says in the book.

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Speaker 1: I'm just again, I'm not sure that I want to

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Speaker 1: go there, but he basically says it's a self esteem

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Speaker 1: boost for women who feel like they don't feel feminine

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Speaker 1: based on their current situation, and so it's a self

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Speaker 1: esteem booster and it is associated with positive well being outcomes,

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Speaker 1: But all the other plastic surgeries his research indicate it's

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Speaker 1: a downer.

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Speaker 9: It brings well being down.

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Speaker 1: The main point that I want to draw out here, though,

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Speaker 1: is that there is a tension, and I think that

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Speaker 1: it was exemplified in the conversation in the episode last night.

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Speaker 1: The tension is we want to look and mums specifically

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Speaker 1: want to look their best and be healthy and feel

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Speaker 1: good about themselves. And the tension exists where if you're

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Speaker 1: going to use external or surgical processes to do that,

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Speaker 1: is that not hypocritical? Like where's the tension between trying

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Speaker 1: to look your best and actually still accepting that you

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Speaker 1: look the way that you do, that you're aging, or

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Speaker 1: that your body's changing.

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Speaker 10: I think for me, I'm not hardcore either way either.

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Speaker 10: But when I look at the damage that social media

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Speaker 10: specifically is doing, we think about all of the filters

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Speaker 10: that are in place for our teenage girls specifically so

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Speaker 10: that they feel comfortable in being able to post a

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Speaker 10: photo of themselves, and then they're watching mum who's forty,

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Speaker 10: and then she's fifty and she's getting older, but she's

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Speaker 10: not displaying the usual signs of age. Are we not

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Speaker 10: then emphasizing that, in order to be accepted as beautiful

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Speaker 10: and feminine and ideal, that we can't with grace. I've

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Speaker 10: thought about all the things many times, and we've actually

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Speaker 10: even had conversations around it. But ultimately it comes down

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Speaker 10: to the fact that I actually love my body. I

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Speaker 10: love what allows me to do, and I want my

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Speaker 10: children to recognize and know that while ever they focus

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Speaker 10: on their external to the extent that they're willing to

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Speaker 10: modify it in any way, shape or form. I think

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Speaker 10: we lose a part of ourselves. We literally give away

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Speaker 10: so much of who we are in an effort for what.

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Speaker 9: It's a tricky one.

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Speaker 1: There's certainly some tension in the room and this idea

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Speaker 1: of making sure that we can feel good about ourselves,

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Speaker 1: but where do we draw the line is a vexed one.

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Speaker 1: Another big topic that we've got to talk about just

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Speaker 1: body image. Generally, we're going to cover off what to

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Speaker 1: say to your kids about having a healthy body image

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Speaker 1: after the break. So, Kylie, this might be a little

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Speaker 1: bit ego driven, but I'm going to play audio of

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Speaker 1: me here because I think I said something really important

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Speaker 1: on the TV show that we need.

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Speaker 9: To listen to.

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Speaker 1: A World Health Organization study found that what predicted who

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Speaker 1: was going to have body image issues was not body size,

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Speaker 1: but gender. Plastic surgery gop one drugs. The people who

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Speaker 1: take advantage of them, more than eighty percent of them

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Speaker 1: are female. We have a different conversation around bodies for

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Speaker 1: men and boys compared to girls and women. Okay, so

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Speaker 1: this kind of extends on the discussion we had around

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Speaker 1: botox and goop one drugs and that kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: in the first part of the podcast. There is definitely

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Speaker 1: a challenge here when it comes to how we feel

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Speaker 1: about our bodies, and it is primarily a female issue,

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Speaker 1: not a male issue, although it's increasingly becoming male because

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Speaker 1: I think social media has amplified and exacerbated it. What

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Speaker 1: I'd like to do is we wrap up today's podcast

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Speaker 1: share five ideas that can help parents who are trying

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Speaker 1: to manage these conversations with their kids. And I know

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Speaker 1: that you've got stuff to say about these things because

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Speaker 1: we talk about them all the time in our home

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Speaker 1: and our family. My first way to reduce body image

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Speaker 1: challenges ties directly in with what you said a few

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Speaker 1: minutes ago, and that is we've got to reduce screens.

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Speaker 1: The more kids are involved with screens, the more they're

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Speaker 1: going to be exposed to stuff that just makes them

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Speaker 1: feel lousy. We shared it in the show last night,

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Speaker 1: some headlines from different articles and different research papers showing

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Speaker 1: the more time people spend online, particularly on social media,

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Speaker 1: the more time they spend looking at ideal bodies, the

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Speaker 1: worst they feel about their own bodies. Reducing time on

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Speaker 1: social media has got to be an element of this.

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Speaker 10: A little bit of a side note, but I think

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Speaker 10: it fits in beautifully. I used to love taking photos,

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Speaker 10: right and once I started engaging.

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Speaker 9: Jim in a view or just photos, no, just.

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Speaker 10: Photos generally, and once I started engaging on social media,

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Speaker 10: I followed a handful of friends and family who were

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Speaker 10: actually photographers by trade, and all of their posts were

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Speaker 10: picture perfect, and it actually stopped me from wanting to

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Speaker 10: post and wanting to actually even take photos, because every

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Speaker 10: time I would take a photo, I would look at

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Speaker 10: it and I would look at it through the lens

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Speaker 10: of it doesn't look anything like that, or it doesn't

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Speaker 10: do this moment justice. And if I'm doing that just

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Speaker 10: purely on a photograph, think about our girls, specifically, who

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Speaker 10: are watching other people post these picture perfect moments in

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Speaker 10: time of themselves, which are probably all filtered up, and

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Speaker 10: then judging their appearance based on a fictitious model.

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Speaker 1: So there's things that I need to pick up on here.

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Speaker 1: Number One, you said picture perfect. I called the chapter

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Speaker 1: in my book Misconnection. I called that pixel perfect. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that's what the goal is. And that ties in

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Speaker 1: directly with the second point that I want to make,

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Speaker 1: and that is that we need to forget about teaching

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Speaker 1: our kids about media literacy. What do I mean by that?

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Speaker 1: You can talk to your kids about filters. You can

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Speaker 1: talk to them about.

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Speaker 10: Well, they know it, they're living atally what it looks like.

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Speaker 1: They know exactly how it works, and it doesn't stop

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Speaker 1: them being aspiring.

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Speaker 9: For that look.

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Speaker 1: And so what our conversations need to be more about

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Speaker 1: is rather than being all about being pixel perfect and

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Speaker 1: the hair and the makeup and the lighting and the

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Speaker 1: filters and all those kinds of things, the conversations need

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Speaker 1: to be about the three final points that I want

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Speaker 1: to emphasize number one, Folcus on what you can do,

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Speaker 1: not how you look. Number two, avoid diets and other

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Speaker 1: things that are designed to be all about externalities, like

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Speaker 1: have good health habits, but don't go on some diet

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Speaker 1: so that you can lose x number of kilos in

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Speaker 1: such and such an amount of time that only amplifies

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Speaker 1: and exacerbates the focus on appearance. And number three with

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Speaker 1: parents have got to be models. We've got to be

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Speaker 1: good examples of how we approach our physical appearance and

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Speaker 1: our attitude towards it, which probably goes back to our

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Speaker 1: conversation in the first part of the podcast, what are

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Speaker 1: we modeling and what does that say about how we

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Speaker 1: feel about ourselves and how we look.

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Speaker 10: Can we just take a minute to talk about Sophia's

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Speaker 10: experience in front of the mirror with her daughter, I

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Speaker 10: so bad.

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Speaker 9: We want to do that. We need to do it tomorrow.

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Speaker 1: We're out of time, and I think that it deserves,

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Speaker 1: it deserves a real conversation. It ties in so well

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Speaker 1: with all the things we're talking about right now. We'll

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Speaker 1: hit that tomorrow on the podcast, as well as a

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Speaker 1: conversation about the second challenge in last night's episode. We

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Speaker 1: really hope that you're enjoying our recaps of the Parental

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Speaker 1: Guidance Season three episodes tomorrow more on Body Image. Can't

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Speaker 1: wait to share it with you. Thanks to spending your

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Speaker 1: time with us, We really hope that you're getting a

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Speaker 1: lot out of it. If you are, can you sh

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Speaker 1: the podcast with your friends? A couple of buttons you

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Speaker 1: can click them and flick it through. I reckon if

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Speaker 1: it makes your family happier, it will make their families

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Speaker 1: happier as well.

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Speaker 9: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Rouland from

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Speaker 9: Bridge Media.

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Speaker 1: Craig Bruce is our executive producer. Mim Hammonds provides research

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Speaker 1: and other support, more information and more resources to make

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Speaker 1: your family happier. You can find a Happy Families dot

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Speaker 1: com dot au