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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, if we just remember they're their own person, they're

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Speaker 2: not us, I think we can have that little bit

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Speaker 2: of extra detachment, that little bit of extra psychological distance

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Speaker 2: from what's going on.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum

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Speaker 1: and dad.

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Speaker 2: Hello. This is doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy

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Speaker 2: Families dot com do AU and the parenting expert and

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Speaker 2: co host of Channel Line's Parental Guidance. Season two starts

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Speaker 2: filming soon. I'm here with Kylie, mum to our six

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Speaker 2: daughters and my wife. Happy Mother's Day yesterday, Honey.

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Speaker 3: Why thank you?

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Speaker 2: Did you enjoy the fact that we didn't have a

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Speaker 2: bathroom to flood because we're homeless. Did you like the

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Speaker 2: fact that our ceiling didn't fall in like last year?

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Speaker 3: I was so grateful, and I was even more grateful

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Speaker 3: for the storeboard, the gift instead of the extra thought

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Speaker 3: that went until last year.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, low key. We kept it really simple because I

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Speaker 2: feel like we've been a little bit. I don't want

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Speaker 2: I don't want to make light of real trauma. I

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Speaker 2: was going to say, I feel like we were a

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Speaker 2: bit traumatized from last year. It's really well, I know

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Speaker 2: the house was yeah, yeah, yeah, we got it together anyway,

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Speaker 2: today a conversation that I think is a really curious one.

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Speaker 2: When you're raising a mini me, have you noticed that

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Speaker 2: sometimes the kids are just like us? And it's infuriating,

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Speaker 2: like could they just be a little bit less like

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Speaker 2: all of the bad stuff, those traits that keep on

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Speaker 2: popping up, and we get so annoyed because they're just

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Speaker 2: like we were when they're or even now, not just

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Speaker 2: when we were their age, but even even today. Do

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Speaker 2: you notice that the kids are a bit like us.

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Speaker 2: It's funny.

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Speaker 3: We had friends way back when we only had a

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Speaker 3: couple of children who used to call our second daughter.

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Speaker 2: Mini justin Yeah, yeah, you wouldn't call her by.

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Speaker 3: A first name because he just thought she looked so

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Speaker 3: much like you.

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Speaker 2: Poor kid. I'm so sorry, Abby, I'm so sorry. She

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Speaker 2: didn't love it. No, she still doesn't. Every now and again,

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Speaker 2: people say, wow, you look just like your dad. She's like, wow,

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Speaker 2: thanks so much. I appreciate that, and I want a

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Speaker 2: couple let people say that to a little girl or

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Speaker 2: a grown girl about how much like her dad she looks.

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Speaker 2: But do you think you have a mini me?

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Speaker 3: Do you think one of the kids is more like

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Speaker 3: you than the others.

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Speaker 2: Well, we're not talking physiologically, we're not talking about physical appearance.

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Speaker 2: I think so. I think our third daughter, Ella, she's

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Speaker 2: totally cruisy, great sense of humor, really laid back. She's

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Speaker 2: just an absolute crack up all the time, and isn't

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Speaker 2: an anomaly. She is not you. Every day is the

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Speaker 2: best day of her life. You don't think that's me. No,

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Speaker 2: she's so optimistic about everything. I was going to say

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Speaker 2: our first daughter.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, who doesn't take no for an answer.

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Speaker 2: You're saying that like it's a bad thing.

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Speaker 3: Well it isn't.

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Speaker 2: It's not. Uh huh.

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Speaker 3: It has its challenges, but no, she's a go getter.

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Speaker 3: She knows what she wants and she makes a beeline

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Speaker 3: for it. She's really good with people, she's great with networking.

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Speaker 3: She just knows who to speak to and she just

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Speaker 3: she knows what she wants and she goes for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you. I'm so glad. I'm going to take

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Speaker 2: that as a positive because that is kind of me.

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Speaker 2: But we've got kids, I mean, we have six of them,

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Speaker 2: so they've obviously they're going to inherit our traits. And

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Speaker 2: when I talk to parents, this conversation comes up all

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Speaker 2: the time, this idea that I can't stand when my

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Speaker 2: kids are behaving like this because I'm just seeing a

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Speaker 2: mirror image of me. And the thing is, quite often

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Speaker 2: we say things like, oh, yeah, she's just like her father,

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Speaker 2: and we always say to the negative. It's never in

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Speaker 2: the positive. Yes, she's belligerent, or she's persistent, or she's

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Speaker 2: having a tandrum just like her father. It's always in

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Speaker 2: the negative. And I think I think that we can

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Speaker 2: learn a lot from these conversations as we consider our

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Speaker 2: children and how to deal with our kids when they

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Speaker 2: are just like us. Before we go on, though, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: I do want to highlight really quickly, one of the

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Speaker 2: things that I love about our kids is their soft nature.

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Speaker 2: And you've taught that to me, and you've taught it

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Speaker 2: to our children, and I love that. I love seeing that.

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Speaker 2: And also they're so creative, which they get from you

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Speaker 2: as well, because my creativity I'm about as creative as

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Speaker 2: I don't know, a box of apples, not very creative

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Speaker 2: at all. Was that a creative thing to say about creativity.

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering if I was more. No, it wasn't. See,

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Speaker 2: I'm just not creative. I'm so uncreative. I can't think

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Speaker 2: of any sort of parallel or analogy for how uncreative

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Speaker 2: I am. But our kids they love to use their

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Speaker 2: hands and draw and craft and do all those things.

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Speaker 2: They've learned that from you. There are so many great

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Speaker 2: things that we can we can find when we look

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Speaker 2: at our children's situation. I don't think that we should

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Speaker 2: always be highlighting the negatives that they have, and folks

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Speaker 2: on how they're parallel to the negatives that we possess

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Speaker 2: from a character or personality point of view.

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Speaker 3: It's interesting we've talked about this a little bit over

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Speaker 3: the last few weeks, this acknowledgement that to every trait

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Speaker 3: there is a positive and a negative to it. And

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Speaker 3: when we see negative traits in our children that remind

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Speaker 3: them of ourselves, I think it's really important to highlight

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Speaker 3: that at that point, we actually haven't learned to accept ourselves.

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Speaker 3: We haven't learnt to recognize that we have areas in

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Speaker 3: our life that need working on that and that's okay.

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Speaker 3: We're not supposed to have it all together and and

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Speaker 3: not our kids. I think we look at our kids

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Speaker 3: sometimes and think, I want them to know what I

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Speaker 3: know now as a.

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Speaker 2: Forty year old, as a five year old, right right.

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Speaker 3: We want them to be honest and kind and you know,

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Speaker 3: share with their sisters or whatever it is. We want

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Speaker 3: them to do it. When it's taken us, however, many

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Speaker 3: years to kind of get to that point ourselves.

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Speaker 2: I remember, and I'm maybe disclosing a little bit excessively here,

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Speaker 2: but I'll do it anyway. As a kid, I was

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Speaker 2: pretty manipulative. As a kid. I learned how to say

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Speaker 2: the right things and manipulate my way into and out

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Speaker 2: of situations quite well well. And I've watched as a

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Speaker 2: couple of our children have demonstrated the capacity they've developed,

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Speaker 2: the ability to be kind of manipulative with us, with

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Speaker 2: their grandparents, and even with their sisters. And there has

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Speaker 2: been many times where I've thought, oh, my goodness, I

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Speaker 2: am literally raising a mini me. I'm seeing that same

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Speaker 2: manipulative tendency. Now, I don't believe that I really possessed

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Speaker 2: that in any meaningful way anymore. I feel like I've

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Speaker 2: purged that from my personality and character because it's not

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Speaker 2: an attractive characteristic at all. I certainly hope that I have,

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Speaker 2: but watching that in the kids, it's really hard to take.

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Speaker 2: And I want to come down harder on them because

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Speaker 2: of it, because I don't want them to have that

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Speaker 2: unattractive characteristic. And I love the way you've tied that

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Speaker 2: in with a sense of identity. The older I've gotten

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Speaker 2: and the more I've hopefully improved my character and stepped

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Speaker 2: away from those kinds of tendencies, the less concerned I

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Speaker 2: am about our children demonstrating them, because I know that

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Speaker 2: I grew through it and I figured it out, and

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Speaker 2: I know that they can too, especially as they watch

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Speaker 2: you and I not doing that not being like that.

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Speaker 2: They'll learn, they'll figure it out as they pass through

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Speaker 2: their maturing process. But I love this concept that you've highlighted, Kylie,

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Speaker 2: about if we can accept ourselves, if we have a

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Speaker 2: high level of personal identity, high level of personal acceptance,

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Speaker 2: then we're probably going to be a lot less judgmental,

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Speaker 2: a lot less likely to shame our children, a lot

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Speaker 2: less worried if they possess some of those same attributes

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Speaker 2: and characteristics that we possess. After the break, another couple

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Speaker 2: of ideas about what to do when you're raising a

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Speaker 2: mini Meme. Tweens, Teens and Screens is the webinar you

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Speaker 2: need if you're struggling with screen time at home. Join

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Speaker 2: me as I unpacked the simplest methods to deal with

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Speaker 2: the screen scene and eliminate the drama without having to

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Speaker 2: ban all devices. Even in some of the trickiest situations,

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Speaker 2: screens can work in your family's favor even if you

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Speaker 2: have tweens and teens. Check out Tweens, Teens and Screens

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Speaker 2: at Happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 3: It's the Happy Family podcast, the podcast for the time

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Speaker 3: poor parent who just wants answers now and I'm wondering,

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Speaker 3: have we got any tips for raising mini Me's.

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Speaker 2: The first thing that I think of when I consider

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Speaker 2: this challenge of oh my goodness, I'm raising a child

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Speaker 2: and they're just like me. Other than do I accept

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Speaker 2: myself for who I am? So can I be okay

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Speaker 2: with them? It kind of ties in is that they

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Speaker 2: are their own people. And I think this is a

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Speaker 2: really critical concept. We're raising a child who is not us.

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Speaker 2: Your child is not you. So even if they do

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Speaker 2: have some similarities in terms of their characteristics, their tendencies,

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Speaker 2: their personality attributes. They're not you, and they're not going

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Speaker 2: to grow up and do what you did. They're growing

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Speaker 2: up in a different home, with different parents, with a

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Speaker 2: different social setting, a different context. Everything about the world

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Speaker 2: that they're growing up in is different to the world

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Speaker 2: that you grew up in. And while there has to

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Speaker 2: be I mean, it's a biological imperative that there are

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Speaker 2: going to be similarities, it can't be that your child

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Speaker 2: will become you. They're not going to make the same

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Speaker 2: mistakes that you do. And even if they do, they'll

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Speaker 2: learn different lessons and they'll progress and develop through those

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Speaker 2: differently to you. But they will grow, develop and progress.

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Speaker 2: And if we just remember they're their own person they're

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Speaker 2: not us, I think we can have that little bit

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Speaker 2: of extra detachment, that little bit of extra psychological distance

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Speaker 2: from what's going on, where we're not projecting our own

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Speaker 2: stuff onto them and forcing them down the same channels

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Speaker 2: and pathways that we went.

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Speaker 3: When I think about this, I go back to that

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Speaker 3: conversation again. We've had this so many times about compassion.

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Speaker 3: I think as parents we want to be the judge.

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Speaker 3: We actually literally it's almost like we look into the

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Speaker 3: future and we determine what our kids outcome.

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Speaker 2: We become a super forecaster. Yeah, oh my goodness, this

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Speaker 2: is what you're doing. Therefore, this is who you will

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Speaker 2: be in twenty seven years. Your life's going to be

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Speaker 2: a disaster. You're going to end up in jail because

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Speaker 2: I caught you that you've been caught shoplifting by the

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Speaker 2: police at the age of twelve, and now your future

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Speaker 2: is planned, it's mapped out. Yeah, I totally hear.

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Speaker 3: And yet, if we were to think back on the

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Speaker 3: experiences we had with new eyes and ask ourselves, how

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Speaker 3: were we treated or responded to in those circumstances, and

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Speaker 3: how do we wish our parents had have been able

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Speaker 3: to show up more times than not? I think that

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Speaker 3: we would feel that we wished there was just more compassion,

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Speaker 3: that we weren't left feeling like we were the worst

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Speaker 3: person in the world or guilt ridden and shame filled.

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Speaker 3: And if we can tap into that, I feel like

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Speaker 3: we're going to show up more compassionately with our own

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Speaker 3: children and give them the space that they need to recognize, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I made a mistake.

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Speaker 2: How do I rectify this?

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Speaker 3: What do I do to move forward?

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Speaker 2: What a lot of about this is we're actually saying,

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Speaker 2: I believe that you can grow. Yeah, I believe that

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Speaker 2: you can grow through this. And I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you've noticed this, but I feel like our kids are

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Speaker 2: better than I ever was at their age. I feel

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Speaker 2: like they're more mature. I feel like they're more focused.

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Speaker 2: I feel like they're more developed that I ever was.

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Speaker 2: I'm so proud of how they are because when I

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Speaker 2: was their age. I've got journals from when I was

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Speaker 2: that age, and when I do take the time to

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Speaker 2: have a quick flick through those journals and look at

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Speaker 2: what I was writing at their age, I can't believe

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Speaker 2: how immature I was. I can't believe what my thinking was.

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Speaker 2: I'm kind of embarrassed about who I was, and I

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Speaker 2: don't see that in our kids. I see it's totally

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Speaker 2: different level of capacity, awareness, capability.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: One of the things that I really love, and yet

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Speaker 3: at times it can be the bane of my parenting existence,

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Speaker 3: is the fact that my children have a voice. Growing up,

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Speaker 3: I didn't feel like I had the capacity to have

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Speaker 3: a voice or have an opinion, and I never wanted

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Speaker 3: that for my children, but obviously, as a parent raising

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Speaker 3: children who do have a voice, it means that there's

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Speaker 3: lots of times there's friction because they're immature and they

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Speaker 3: don't have the capacity to share that voice in appropriate

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Speaker 3: ways at times, and it can be really jarring as

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Speaker 3: a parentless to it. But if I take a step back,

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Speaker 3: I love, I absolutely love that my kids know what

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Speaker 3: they want and they're able to articulate that. And hopefully,

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Speaker 3: in time, with more training and more beautiful, compassionate parenting,

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Speaker 3: they will become better at it and more skilled at

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Speaker 3: using that voice in appropriate ways.

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Speaker 2: But I just love.

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Speaker 3: I love that they share their thoughts.

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Speaker 2: So a quick summary and then a couple more ideas.

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Speaker 2: First Off, if you're raising a child who is just

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Speaker 2: like you and it's driving you crazy, hint number one,

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Speaker 2: except yourself. Hint number two, Recognize that they're their own person,

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Speaker 2: they're not you, and their circumstances are different. Number three.

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Speaker 2: Show them some compassion, which is what you needed. Another

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Speaker 2: idea is that I think that we can just show

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Speaker 2: them a better way. If they are just like we were,

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Speaker 2: let's demonstrate to them that that's not how they have

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Speaker 2: to stay. If we were manipulative, for example, we can

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Speaker 2: demonstrate to them that we're not manipulative anymore, and that

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Speaker 2: we're actually into empowering other people and giving them their

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Speaker 2: own voice and their own opportunity to figure things out,

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Speaker 2: rather than saying, I'm going to make the situation work

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Speaker 2: in my favor, so we could do that. That would be

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Speaker 2: another idea. And the last one that I had jotted

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Speaker 2: down was just this concept. We've sort of danced around

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Speaker 2: it a few times in this discussion, but a concept

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Speaker 2: of identity, or maybe just the standard standard is a

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Speaker 2: better word for it. We often hold our children to

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Speaker 2: a standard that is impossible for us to achieve even now,

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Speaker 2: let alone. When we kind of goes back to you

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Speaker 2: kind of hinted at this earlier. We're in our forties,

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Speaker 2: and we expect that our six year old or our

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Speaker 2: twelve year old or our fifteen year old is going

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Speaker 2: to be able to do at think behave with the

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Speaker 2: same level of maturity, the same level of capacity that

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Speaker 2: we do now, because we've taught them everything that we

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Speaker 2: know and they should just know better.

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Speaker 3: The biggest one I can think of a simpling rivalry.

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Speaker 3: I was just an awful big sister to my sisters,

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Speaker 3: and yet they're my best friends now, and I see

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Speaker 3: our kids treating each other unkindly, and I'm like, if

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Speaker 3: you only knew, Yeah, they're going to be your best

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Speaker 3: friend one day? Is it just be kind?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah? I love that. So let's wrap up with

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Speaker 2: a take home message. When your child is just like

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Speaker 2: you and it's driving you up the wall, love them.

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Speaker 2: Just love them for their mistakes, embrace them and delight

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Speaker 2: in them, and find joy in who they are right

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Speaker 2: now and in their progress. And the only way you'll

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Speaker 2: be able to do that is if you accept you

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Speaker 2: for who you are. What can you do to be

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Speaker 2: more accepting a view in spite of all your mistakes

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Speaker 2: and failings and mishaps and inability to get it together

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Speaker 2: all the time, How can you accept you more? Because

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Speaker 2: the more you can accept yourself and be comfortable and

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Speaker 2: confident in who you are, the easier it will be

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Speaker 2: to accept your child, especially if they're just like you.

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Speaker 2: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhland from

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Speaker 2: Bridge Media Jr. We love your work, Thanks so much

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Speaker 2: for all of your help. Bruce is our executive producer,

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Speaker 2: And if you'd like more info about making your family happier,

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Speaker 2: specifically and particularly about how you can stop using Carrots

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Speaker 2: and Sticks to manipulate the way your children are going

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Speaker 2: to behave. We've got a webinar coming up on the

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Speaker 2: sixteenth of May. It's a Monday Night Carrots and Sticks.

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Speaker 2: You can get all the information you need about that one.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be an absolute ripper at happy families

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Speaker 2: dot com dot au