WEBVTT - Will the Govt's hate speech bills pass?

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is this is the Daily This is

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<v Speaker 1>the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the twentieth of January. I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fitz Simons.

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<v Speaker 2>Federal Parliament will today debate new hate speech and gun

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<v Speaker 2>control legislation in the wake of the Bondi terror attack

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<v Speaker 2>that killed fifteen innocent people last month.

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<v Speaker 3>Honoring the heroes of Bondi also means standing together against

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<v Speaker 3>that evil that inflicted this devastation, standing together against hatred,

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<v Speaker 3>standing together against division, and working together to eradicate any semitism.

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<v Speaker 2>The government initially planned to introduce a single bill covering

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<v Speaker 2>multiple reforms, but widespread opposition has forced it to split

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<v Speaker 2>the legislation into two bills. Today we are going to

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<v Speaker 2>be down what's in these bills and why they've proven

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<v Speaker 2>so controversial.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Emma, it's not exactly normal that Parliament sits in January,

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<v Speaker 1>but the Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi brought parliamentarians back specifically

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<v Speaker 1>for this legislation.

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<v Speaker 2>Right exactly. So you're right, Billy. We don't often see

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<v Speaker 2>legislation being tabled at this time of year. But Parliament

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<v Speaker 2>was recalled in the wake of the fourteen December Bondi

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<v Speaker 2>terror attack, when two gunmen targeted a Jewish celebration, killing

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<v Speaker 2>fifteen innocent people. Now, that attack sparked immediate calls for

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<v Speaker 2>stronger laws to combat both anti semitism and hate speech.

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<v Speaker 2>We've seen a real growing kind of conversation around the

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<v Speaker 2>need to do something about these attacks, and that came

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<v Speaker 2>to a head when the government announced plans to table legislation.

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<v Speaker 2>It initially announced that it would introduce what it called

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<v Speaker 2>an omnibus bill. Now that's just a term that basically

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<v Speaker 2>means one large piece of legislation that covers multiple policy areas.

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<v Speaker 2>This bill was going to include tougher hate speech laws

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<v Speaker 2>as well as strengthened gun control measures, lots of reforms

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<v Speaker 2>all in one package.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and I know now it's not one package. But

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<v Speaker 1>I think how we should explain this is explain what

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<v Speaker 1>the bill initially was, yep, and then we can get

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<v Speaker 1>to how it's now changed. But let's start with the

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<v Speaker 1>initial omnibus bill that they were going to introduce.

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<v Speaker 2>So that bill, called the Combating Anti Semitism, Hate and

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<v Speaker 2>Extremism Bill, was described by the Attorney General Michelle Roland

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<v Speaker 2>as the toughest hate laws Australia has ever seen. You

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<v Speaker 2>may have heard some MPs calling it the biggest reforms

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<v Speaker 2>and changes to national security and hate speech laws since

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<v Speaker 2>nine to eleven. Now, on the hate speech side, it

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<v Speaker 2>sought to significantly increase penalties for hate motivated offenses, including

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<v Speaker 2>jail terms of up to twelve years for what the

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<v Speaker 2>government called hate preachers. So new penalties for inciting hatred

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<v Speaker 2>would have created a new standalone offense for publicly promoting

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<v Speaker 2>or inciting hatred on the basis of race or ethnicity,

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<v Speaker 2>racial vilification. The bill also proposed a national framework to

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<v Speaker 2>list prohibited hate groups, similarly to how terrorist organizations are

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<v Speaker 2>currently listed. We heard from Azio on that reform, essentially

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<v Speaker 2>saying that a lot of groups were operating just outside

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<v Speaker 2>the law or skirting around the law, but ultimately inciting violence,

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<v Speaker 2>and that this bill would kind of similarly list those

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<v Speaker 2>groups in the same way that terror organizations are treated.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, So that is the hate speech half of that

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<v Speaker 1>initial bill. But then there was also a gun reform half.

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<v Speaker 1>What was that part?

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So the bill proposed a buyback scheme to reduce

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<v Speaker 2>the number of guns right across the country. Owners would

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<v Speaker 2>be allowed to surrender their guns, they receive at tax

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<v Speaker 2>exempt compensation for doing so, and the Australian Federal Police

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<v Speaker 2>would then oversee the destruction of those surrendered weapons. The

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<v Speaker 2>government's legislation also proposed a new background check system for

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<v Speaker 2>gun license holders. We heard a little bit about this

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<v Speaker 2>at the end of last year. Essentially, this would allow

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<v Speaker 2>authorities to reassess someone's suitability to hold a gun license

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<v Speaker 2>if new information emerges outside the normal renewal period. We

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<v Speaker 2>heard the Prime Minister say, you know, just because someone

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<v Speaker 2>is granted a gun license at one point in their life,

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't mean that things don't change. It doesn't mean

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<v Speaker 2>that they can't become radicalized later in their lives. Finally,

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<v Speaker 2>under the bill, the Home Affairs Minister could also refuse

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<v Speaker 2>or cancel visas for non citizens who are associated with

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<v Speaker 2>terrorist or prohibited hate groups, have engaged in hate motivated

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<v Speaker 2>conduct even without a conviction, or publicly promote racist or

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<v Speaker 2>extremist views that are deemed to pose a risk to community.

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<v Speaker 2>So we had the buyback changing background checks and some

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<v Speaker 2>new powers for the Home Affairs Minister.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that is what Labour initially intended to introduce

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<v Speaker 1>the hate speech laws and the gun reform laws. They

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<v Speaker 1>wanted to introduce them together. Yeah, but in order to

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<v Speaker 1>do that they did need support from elsewhere in the

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<v Speaker 1>Parliament and they haven't exactly got that right, that's correct.

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<v Speaker 2>So Labor has a majority in the lower house, the

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<v Speaker 2>House of Representatives, but to pass legislation through the Senate,

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<v Speaker 2>it needs the support of either the Greens or the Coalition.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're exactly right, Billy. The government ended up facing

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<v Speaker 2>such strong opposition from all sides of politics that it

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<v Speaker 2>was forced to split that omnibus legislation into two bills.

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<v Speaker 2>One bill focuses on the hate speech reforms and the

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<v Speaker 2>other on gun reforms.

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<v Speaker 1>And so why did the Coalition and the Greens oppose

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<v Speaker 1>the legislation And just to be clear, they opposed the

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<v Speaker 1>hate speech part of the legislation, not necessarily the gun one.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, Well, most of the objections do relate to the

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<v Speaker 2>hate speech reforms, you're right, but both sides had very

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<v Speaker 2>different objection to the reforms. So Opposition leader Susan Lee

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<v Speaker 2>had called the bill half baked. She said it was

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<v Speaker 2>rushed and ultimately that it doesn't address what she called

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<v Speaker 2>the root causes of the Bondie attack Islamic extremism or

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<v Speaker 2>rising antisemitism. The coalition was particularly concerned about a racial

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<v Speaker 2>vilification loophole in the bill that we'll get into more later.

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<v Speaker 2>They argued that that could allow religious leaders to avoid

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<v Speaker 2>hate speech charges if they were directly quoting from a

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<v Speaker 2>religious text. Lee also said the coalition wants to enshrine

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<v Speaker 2>a formal definition of antisemitism in law, which this bill

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<v Speaker 2>did not include.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, so that is the coalition's criticism of the hate

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<v Speaker 1>speech part of the potential reforms. What about the Greens?

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<v Speaker 2>The Greens had different concerns, but relating to the same

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<v Speaker 2>parts of the legislation. Greens leader Larissa Wards ultimately said

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<v Speaker 2>the bill could have unintended consequences and be weaponized to

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<v Speaker 2>shut down legitimate political protest. And the Greens all so

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<v Speaker 2>argued that making it easier for the Home Affairs Minister

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<v Speaker 2>to cancel visas because someone might commit an offense is

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<v Speaker 2>not a credible legal test.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay. We briefly said before that in response to this criticism,

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<v Speaker 1>they have split the legislation in half. Right, That was

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<v Speaker 1>their solution.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the solution we heard that announced over the weekend,

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<v Speaker 2>and ultimately this is kind of a strategic move because

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<v Speaker 2>we did learn late last week that the Greens would

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<v Speaker 2>support the gun law reforms in the omnibus legislation. So

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<v Speaker 2>the government has kind of responded to that and said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we know we can pass the gun law reforms, so

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<v Speaker 2>let's split them out and let's work on the hate

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<v Speaker 2>speech reforms and see if we can get them across.

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<v Speaker 2>So it means that the government can at least get

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<v Speaker 2>one part of its response to the Bondi terror attack

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<v Speaker 2>through Parliament.

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<v Speaker 1>And then will they make changes to the hate speech

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<v Speaker 1>part of the initial bill.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it first of all should be mentioned that a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of the bill has stayed the same. So we've

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<v Speaker 2>split out the hate speech reforms, but so of the

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<v Speaker 2>initial legislation or reforms are still in there. That includes

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<v Speaker 2>the visa cancelation powers tougher penalties for hate motivated offenses

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<v Speaker 2>up to twelve years in jail, but publicly or promoting

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<v Speaker 2>or inciting hatred based on race or ethnicity has been

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<v Speaker 2>removed from this new legislation. That was a reform that

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<v Speaker 2>had caused a lot of controversy I understand.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's how they've changed it. Not only have they

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<v Speaker 1>split the bill in half, but then they've also amended

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<v Speaker 1>the hate speech part. Yes, so why was that part

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<v Speaker 1>taken away?

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<v Speaker 2>So this has been one of the most controversial aspects

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<v Speaker 2>to this legislation, to the conversation going on politically, The

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<v Speaker 2>original bill included laws around racial vilification and an exemption.

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<v Speaker 2>You may have heard this discussed as a loophole. So

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<v Speaker 2>under the initial proposal, it would be illegal to incite

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<v Speaker 2>or promote hatred on the grounds of race, color, or

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<v Speaker 2>national or ethnic origin unless and this is a big unless,

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<v Speaker 2>unless someone is directly quoting from a religious text. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>the Executive Council of Australian Jury raised concerns about this

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<v Speaker 2>loophole and said invoking religion as an excuse to dehumanize

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<v Speaker 2>and mistreat others simply on the basis of who they

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<v Speaker 2>are must surely be a thing of the past. The

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<v Speaker 2>Coalition was concerned about this loophole. It was also divided

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<v Speaker 2>about whether this law would restrict free speech, and the

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<v Speaker 2>Greens wanted to see the scope of this reform actually

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<v Speaker 2>broadened to include LGBTQIA plus groups and people with disabilities,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as other minority groups. We heard from independent

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<v Speaker 2>MP Alegrispender. Her electorate actually includes the Bondai area and

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<v Speaker 2>she had raised the same issue as the Greens, but

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<v Speaker 2>said she'd still support the bill because Jewish community safety

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<v Speaker 2>is paramount now. To use her words, Spender and several

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<v Speaker 2>other independents, the group known as the Teals have actually

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<v Speaker 2>called on the Coalition and Greens to support what they

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<v Speaker 2>acknowledge is an imperfect bill but to quote, w work

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<v Speaker 2>on it together to get it right.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So where does that leave us today? Do you

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<v Speaker 1>think that this bill will pass?

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<v Speaker 3>Well?

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<v Speaker 2>We now know that that racial vilification offense has been removed,

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<v Speaker 2>which hypothetically gives the Coalition some of what they were

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<v Speaker 2>asking for, but it's really unclear at the time of recording.

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<v Speaker 2>The gun reform bill will almost certainly pass, we know

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<v Speaker 2>that because the Greens have said they'll support it, but

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<v Speaker 2>these hate speech laws still look to be in significant trouble.

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<v Speaker 2>Deputy Prime Minister Richard Miles said yesterday that the Coalition

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<v Speaker 2>are hopelessly divided. He's kind of politically attacking their lack

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<v Speaker 2>of unification at the moment in terms of being able

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<v Speaker 2>to articulate the amendments that they want. Miles said, we

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<v Speaker 2>need to work with a partner here, but right now

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<v Speaker 2>the coalition has not appeared. Opposition leader Susan Lee called

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<v Speaker 2>the legislation unsalvagable last week. Her biggest argument really was

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<v Speaker 2>that this was too rushed. It's all being pushed through

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<v Speaker 2>too quickly, and that important aspects are being missed and

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<v Speaker 2>therefore the coalition cannot support the legislation. Since Albanesi announced

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<v Speaker 2>that the reforms would be split in two, we really

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<v Speaker 2>haven't gotten a clear cut answer from the coalition as

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<v Speaker 2>to where they will fall.

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<v Speaker 1>And I saw yesterday that Prime Minister Anthony Alberesi, I

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<v Speaker 1>know this is maybe again confusing, but he was then

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<v Speaker 1>critical of Opposition leader Susan Lee, saying that this was

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<v Speaker 1>all rushed.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Yes. One of the political conversations that's emerged from

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<v Speaker 2>this is, you know, we did hear from the coalition

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<v Speaker 2>quite a lot between December fourteenth and last week, really

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<v Speaker 2>really calling for and pushing for action. Albanesi is saying

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<v Speaker 2>essentially that he's stunned at the criticism for these reforms

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<v Speaker 2>because the coalition said it wanted urgent action. Albanesi now

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<v Speaker 2>saying they can't complain about the timing because they're responding

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<v Speaker 2>to those calls. Cabinet Minister Murray what said yesterday the

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<v Speaker 2>government is negotiating with the coalition and is very hopeful

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<v Speaker 2>that they'll support these laws. But what made it really

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<v Speaker 2>clear that if the legislation doesn't have enough support to pass,

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<v Speaker 2>the government does not want to engage in a debate

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<v Speaker 2>that could potentially become really divisive and hateful at a

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<v Speaker 2>time when the country does not need it. Albanzi has

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<v Speaker 2>asked MPs to look for reasons to agree rather than disagree,

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<v Speaker 2>but with such fundamental differences between the parties, it's really

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<v Speaker 2>hard to see how that will happen quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>So what happens next.

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<v Speaker 2>Albanzi was asked at a press conference this week if

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<v Speaker 2>this was the last chance to pass hate speech laws,

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<v Speaker 2>and he said, correct, this is the last chance. The

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<v Speaker 2>government does not want to continue pushing for something that

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<v Speaker 2>the rest of the Parliament won't agree with, So if

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<v Speaker 2>it fails today, the government has kind of said that's it.

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<v Speaker 2>There's so much uncertainty, Billy, but I do think it's

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<v Speaker 2>worth quickly touching on a perhaps rare moment of bipartisanship.

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<v Speaker 2>Yesterday on Monday, we saw Parliament come together to observe

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<v Speaker 2>a minute's silence before the PM moved a condolence motion

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<v Speaker 2>for the victims of the Bondai terror attack. We heard

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<v Speaker 2>quite moving addresses from all sides of the political aisle

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<v Speaker 2>and his a little bit of what Prime Minister said

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<v Speaker 2>to end today's episode on.

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<v Speaker 3>We must continue to raise our voices against the silence

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<v Speaker 3>because while the massacre at Bondai Beach was cruel and senseless,

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<v Speaker 3>it was not random. Jewish Australians were the target. As

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<v Speaker 3>we offer our love, sympathy and solidarity to everyone bearing

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<v Speaker 3>the weight of trauma and loss, we make it clear

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<v Speaker 3>to every Jewish Australian you are not alone.

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<v Speaker 1>Emma, thank you for breaking that down for us. We

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<v Speaker 1>will obviously be watching closely to see what happens in

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<v Speaker 1>Parliament today. It will be a very big day in

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<v Speaker 1>Parliament and thank you so much for listening to this

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<v Speaker 1>episode of The Daily OS. We'll be back this afternoon

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<v Speaker 1>with your evening headlines, but until then, we hope you

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<v Speaker 1>have a good day. My name is Lily Maddon and

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<v Speaker 1>I'm a proud Arunda Banjelung Kalgotin woman from Gadigl country.

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<v Speaker 1>The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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<v Speaker 1>the lands of the Gadighl people and respect to all

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<v Speaker 1>Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay our

0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.240
<v Speaker 1>respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past

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<v Speaker 1>and present.