Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is
Speaker 1: the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense.
Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,
Speaker 2: the twentieth of January. I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy fitz Simons.
Speaker 2: Federal Parliament will today debate new hate speech and gun
Speaker 2: control legislation in the wake of the Bondi terror attack
Speaker 2: that killed fifteen innocent people last month.
Speaker 3: Honoring the heroes of Bondi also means standing together against
Speaker 3: that evil that inflicted this devastation, standing together against hatred,
Speaker 3: standing together against division, and working together to eradicate any semitism.
Speaker 2: The government initially planned to introduce a single bill covering
Speaker 2: multiple reforms, but widespread opposition has forced it to split
Speaker 2: the legislation into two bills. Today we are going to
Speaker 2: be down what's in these bills and why they've proven
Speaker 2: so controversial.
Speaker 1: So, Emma, it's not exactly normal that Parliament sits in January,
Speaker 1: but the Prime Minister Anthony Albanesi brought parliamentarians back specifically
Speaker 1: for this legislation.
Speaker 2: Right exactly. So you're right, Billy. We don't often see
Speaker 2: legislation being tabled at this time of year. But Parliament
Speaker 2: was recalled in the wake of the fourteen December Bondi
Speaker 2: terror attack, when two gunmen targeted a Jewish celebration, killing
Speaker 2: fifteen innocent people. Now, that attack sparked immediate calls for
Speaker 2: stronger laws to combat both anti semitism and hate speech.
Speaker 2: We've seen a real growing kind of conversation around the
Speaker 2: need to do something about these attacks, and that came
Speaker 2: to a head when the government announced plans to table legislation.
Speaker 2: It initially announced that it would introduce what it called
Speaker 2: an omnibus bill. Now that's just a term that basically
Speaker 2: means one large piece of legislation that covers multiple policy areas.
Speaker 2: This bill was going to include tougher hate speech laws
Speaker 2: as well as strengthened gun control measures, lots of reforms
Speaker 2: all in one package.
Speaker 1: Okay, and I know now it's not one package. But
Speaker 1: I think how we should explain this is explain what
Speaker 1: the bill initially was, yep, and then we can get
Speaker 1: to how it's now changed. But let's start with the
Speaker 1: initial omnibus bill that they were going to introduce.
Speaker 2: So that bill, called the Combating Anti Semitism, Hate and
Speaker 2: Extremism Bill, was described by the Attorney General Michelle Roland
Speaker 2: as the toughest hate laws Australia has ever seen. You
Speaker 2: may have heard some MPs calling it the biggest reforms
Speaker 2: and changes to national security and hate speech laws since
Speaker 2: nine to eleven. Now, on the hate speech side, it
Speaker 2: sought to significantly increase penalties for hate motivated offenses, including
Speaker 2: jail terms of up to twelve years for what the
Speaker 2: government called hate preachers. So new penalties for inciting hatred
Speaker 2: would have created a new standalone offense for publicly promoting
Speaker 2: or inciting hatred on the basis of race or ethnicity,
Speaker 2: racial vilification. The bill also proposed a national framework to
Speaker 2: list prohibited hate groups, similarly to how terrorist organizations are
Speaker 2: currently listed. We heard from Azio on that reform, essentially
Speaker 2: saying that a lot of groups were operating just outside
Speaker 2: the law or skirting around the law, but ultimately inciting violence,
Speaker 2: and that this bill would kind of similarly list those
Speaker 2: groups in the same way that terror organizations are treated.
Speaker 1: Right, So that is the hate speech half of that
Speaker 1: initial bill. But then there was also a gun reform half.
Speaker 1: What was that part?
Speaker 2: Yes, So the bill proposed a buyback scheme to reduce
Speaker 2: the number of guns right across the country. Owners would
Speaker 2: be allowed to surrender their guns, they receive at tax
Speaker 2: exempt compensation for doing so, and the Australian Federal Police
Speaker 2: would then oversee the destruction of those surrendered weapons. The
Speaker 2: government's legislation also proposed a new background check system for
Speaker 2: gun license holders. We heard a little bit about this
Speaker 2: at the end of last year. Essentially, this would allow
Speaker 2: authorities to reassess someone's suitability to hold a gun license
Speaker 2: if new information emerges outside the normal renewal period. We
Speaker 2: heard the Prime Minister say, you know, just because someone
Speaker 2: is granted a gun license at one point in their life,
Speaker 2: it doesn't mean that things don't change. It doesn't mean
Speaker 2: that they can't become radicalized later in their lives. Finally,
Speaker 2: under the bill, the Home Affairs Minister could also refuse
Speaker 2: or cancel visas for non citizens who are associated with
Speaker 2: terrorist or prohibited hate groups, have engaged in hate motivated
Speaker 2: conduct even without a conviction, or publicly promote racist or
Speaker 2: extremist views that are deemed to pose a risk to community.
Speaker 2: So we had the buyback changing background checks and some
Speaker 2: new powers for the Home Affairs Minister.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that is what Labour initially intended to introduce
Speaker 1: the hate speech laws and the gun reform laws. They
Speaker 1: wanted to introduce them together. Yeah, but in order to
Speaker 1: do that they did need support from elsewhere in the
Speaker 1: Parliament and they haven't exactly got that right, that's correct.
Speaker 2: So Labor has a majority in the lower house, the
Speaker 2: House of Representatives, but to pass legislation through the Senate,
Speaker 2: it needs the support of either the Greens or the Coalition.
Speaker 2: So you're exactly right, Billy. The government ended up facing
Speaker 2: such strong opposition from all sides of politics that it
Speaker 2: was forced to split that omnibus legislation into two bills.
Speaker 2: One bill focuses on the hate speech reforms and the
Speaker 2: other on gun reforms.
Speaker 1: And so why did the Coalition and the Greens oppose
Speaker 1: the legislation And just to be clear, they opposed the
Speaker 1: hate speech part of the legislation, not necessarily the gun one.
Speaker 2: Right, Well, most of the objections do relate to the
Speaker 2: hate speech reforms, you're right, but both sides had very
Speaker 2: different objection to the reforms. So Opposition leader Susan Lee
Speaker 2: had called the bill half baked. She said it was
Speaker 2: rushed and ultimately that it doesn't address what she called
Speaker 2: the root causes of the Bondie attack Islamic extremism or
Speaker 2: rising antisemitism. The coalition was particularly concerned about a racial
Speaker 2: vilification loophole in the bill that we'll get into more later.
Speaker 2: They argued that that could allow religious leaders to avoid
Speaker 2: hate speech charges if they were directly quoting from a
Speaker 2: religious text. Lee also said the coalition wants to enshrine
Speaker 2: a formal definition of antisemitism in law, which this bill
Speaker 2: did not include.
Speaker 1: Okay, so that is the coalition's criticism of the hate
Speaker 1: speech part of the potential reforms. What about the Greens?
Speaker 2: The Greens had different concerns, but relating to the same
Speaker 2: parts of the legislation. Greens leader Larissa Wards ultimately said
Speaker 2: the bill could have unintended consequences and be weaponized to
Speaker 2: shut down legitimate political protest. And the Greens all so
Speaker 2: argued that making it easier for the Home Affairs Minister
Speaker 2: to cancel visas because someone might commit an offense is
Speaker 2: not a credible legal test.
Speaker 1: Okay. We briefly said before that in response to this criticism,
Speaker 1: they have split the legislation in half. Right, That was
Speaker 1: their solution.
Speaker 2: That was the solution we heard that announced over the weekend,
Speaker 2: and ultimately this is kind of a strategic move because
Speaker 2: we did learn late last week that the Greens would
Speaker 2: support the gun law reforms in the omnibus legislation. So
Speaker 2: the government has kind of responded to that and said, well,
Speaker 2: we know we can pass the gun law reforms, so
Speaker 2: let's split them out and let's work on the hate
Speaker 2: speech reforms and see if we can get them across.
Speaker 2: So it means that the government can at least get
Speaker 2: one part of its response to the Bondi terror attack
Speaker 2: through Parliament.
Speaker 1: And then will they make changes to the hate speech
Speaker 1: part of the initial bill.
Speaker 2: Well, it first of all should be mentioned that a
Speaker 2: lot of the bill has stayed the same. So we've
Speaker 2: split out the hate speech reforms, but so of the
Speaker 2: initial legislation or reforms are still in there. That includes
Speaker 2: the visa cancelation powers tougher penalties for hate motivated offenses
Speaker 2: up to twelve years in jail, but publicly or promoting
Speaker 2: or inciting hatred based on race or ethnicity has been
Speaker 2: removed from this new legislation. That was a reform that
Speaker 2: had caused a lot of controversy I understand.
Speaker 1: So that's how they've changed it. Not only have they
Speaker 1: split the bill in half, but then they've also amended
Speaker 1: the hate speech part. Yes, so why was that part
Speaker 1: taken away?
Speaker 2: So this has been one of the most controversial aspects
Speaker 2: to this legislation, to the conversation going on politically, The
Speaker 2: original bill included laws around racial vilification and an exemption.
Speaker 2: You may have heard this discussed as a loophole. So
Speaker 2: under the initial proposal, it would be illegal to incite
Speaker 2: or promote hatred on the grounds of race, color, or
Speaker 2: national or ethnic origin unless and this is a big unless,
Speaker 2: unless someone is directly quoting from a religious text. Now,
Speaker 2: the Executive Council of Australian Jury raised concerns about this
Speaker 2: loophole and said invoking religion as an excuse to dehumanize
Speaker 2: and mistreat others simply on the basis of who they
Speaker 2: are must surely be a thing of the past. The
Speaker 2: Coalition was concerned about this loophole. It was also divided
Speaker 2: about whether this law would restrict free speech, and the
Speaker 2: Greens wanted to see the scope of this reform actually
Speaker 2: broadened to include LGBTQIA plus groups and people with disabilities,
Speaker 2: as well as other minority groups. We heard from independent
Speaker 2: MP Alegrispender. Her electorate actually includes the Bondai area and
Speaker 2: she had raised the same issue as the Greens, but
Speaker 2: said she'd still support the bill because Jewish community safety
Speaker 2: is paramount now. To use her words, Spender and several
Speaker 2: other independents, the group known as the Teals have actually
Speaker 2: called on the Coalition and Greens to support what they
Speaker 2: acknowledge is an imperfect bill but to quote, w work
Speaker 2: on it together to get it right.
Speaker 1: Okay, So where does that leave us today? Do you
Speaker 1: think that this bill will pass?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 2: We now know that that racial vilification offense has been removed,
Speaker 2: which hypothetically gives the Coalition some of what they were
Speaker 2: asking for, but it's really unclear at the time of recording.
Speaker 2: The gun reform bill will almost certainly pass, we know
Speaker 2: that because the Greens have said they'll support it, but
Speaker 2: these hate speech laws still look to be in significant trouble.
Speaker 2: Deputy Prime Minister Richard Miles said yesterday that the Coalition
Speaker 2: are hopelessly divided. He's kind of politically attacking their lack
Speaker 2: of unification at the moment in terms of being able
Speaker 2: to articulate the amendments that they want. Miles said, we
Speaker 2: need to work with a partner here, but right now
Speaker 2: the coalition has not appeared. Opposition leader Susan Lee called
Speaker 2: the legislation unsalvagable last week. Her biggest argument really was
Speaker 2: that this was too rushed. It's all being pushed through
Speaker 2: too quickly, and that important aspects are being missed and
Speaker 2: therefore the coalition cannot support the legislation. Since Albanesi announced
Speaker 2: that the reforms would be split in two, we really
Speaker 2: haven't gotten a clear cut answer from the coalition as
Speaker 2: to where they will fall.
Speaker 1: And I saw yesterday that Prime Minister Anthony Alberesi, I
Speaker 1: know this is maybe again confusing, but he was then
Speaker 1: critical of Opposition leader Susan Lee, saying that this was
Speaker 1: all rushed.
Speaker 2: Right. Yes. One of the political conversations that's emerged from
Speaker 2: this is, you know, we did hear from the coalition
Speaker 2: quite a lot between December fourteenth and last week, really
Speaker 2: really calling for and pushing for action. Albanesi is saying
Speaker 2: essentially that he's stunned at the criticism for these reforms
Speaker 2: because the coalition said it wanted urgent action. Albanesi now
Speaker 2: saying they can't complain about the timing because they're responding
Speaker 2: to those calls. Cabinet Minister Murray what said yesterday the
Speaker 2: government is negotiating with the coalition and is very hopeful
Speaker 2: that they'll support these laws. But what made it really
Speaker 2: clear that if the legislation doesn't have enough support to pass,
Speaker 2: the government does not want to engage in a debate
Speaker 2: that could potentially become really divisive and hateful at a
Speaker 2: time when the country does not need it. Albanzi has
Speaker 2: asked MPs to look for reasons to agree rather than disagree,
Speaker 2: but with such fundamental differences between the parties, it's really
Speaker 2: hard to see how that will happen quickly.
Speaker 1: So what happens next.
Speaker 2: Albanzi was asked at a press conference this week if
Speaker 2: this was the last chance to pass hate speech laws,
Speaker 2: and he said, correct, this is the last chance. The
Speaker 2: government does not want to continue pushing for something that
Speaker 2: the rest of the Parliament won't agree with, So if
Speaker 2: it fails today, the government has kind of said that's it.
Speaker 2: There's so much uncertainty, Billy, but I do think it's
Speaker 2: worth quickly touching on a perhaps rare moment of bipartisanship.
Speaker 2: Yesterday on Monday, we saw Parliament come together to observe
Speaker 2: a minute's silence before the PM moved a condolence motion
Speaker 2: for the victims of the Bondai terror attack. We heard
Speaker 2: quite moving addresses from all sides of the political aisle
Speaker 2: and his a little bit of what Prime Minister said
Speaker 2: to end today's episode on.
Speaker 3: We must continue to raise our voices against the silence
Speaker 3: because while the massacre at Bondai Beach was cruel and senseless,
Speaker 3: it was not random. Jewish Australians were the target. As
Speaker 3: we offer our love, sympathy and solidarity to everyone bearing
Speaker 3: the weight of trauma and loss, we make it clear
Speaker 3: to every Jewish Australian you are not alone.
Speaker 1: Emma, thank you for breaking that down for us. We
Speaker 1: will obviously be watching closely to see what happens in
Speaker 1: Parliament today. It will be a very big day in
Speaker 1: Parliament and thank you so much for listening to this
Speaker 1: episode of The Daily OS. We'll be back this afternoon
Speaker 1: with your evening headlines, but until then, we hope you
Speaker 1: have a good day. My name is Lily Maddon and
Speaker 1: I'm a proud Arunda Banjelung Kalgotin woman from Gadigl country.
Speaker 1: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on
Speaker 1: the lands of the Gadighl people and respect to all
Speaker 1: Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay our
Speaker 1: respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past
Speaker 1: and present.