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Speaker 1: It's not about getting your kids through UNI. It's about

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Speaker 1: getting university through your kids. It's the Happy Families podcast,

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Speaker 1: the podcast for the time poor parent who just wants

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Speaker 1: answers Now. Hello, my name is doctor Justin Colsonan joined

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Speaker 1: with my wife, joined by my wife I should say,

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Speaker 1: and co host missus Happy Families, Kylie, and we are

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Speaker 1: the parents of six daughters. I've written six books about

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Speaker 1: raising happy families. I think we're doing okay trying to

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Speaker 1: raise a happy family.

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Speaker 2: I think I think we're doing okay.

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Speaker 3: I think we're doing the best we can.

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Speaker 2: Fair call, we are doing the best we can.

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Speaker 3: Well. Last week, Justin you posted something on our social

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Speaker 3: media accounts, Facebook and Instagram which got a pretty big

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Speaker 3: response from our communities. Our second daughter had her formal

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Speaker 3: You're twelve formal her year twelve.

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Speaker 1: Is our second child finishing high school.

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Speaker 3: That's right, but that wasn't actually what got the response,

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Speaker 3: even though she was beautiful, and we got lots of

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Speaker 3: responses about her dress.

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Speaker 2: Ye where'd you buy the dress? I well, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't remember the shop we brought it from. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: the key response.

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Speaker 3: Was people were really interested with the approach that we've

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Speaker 3: taken with her studies this year, specifically allowing her a

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Speaker 3: bit of breathing space and taking away pressure from having

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Speaker 3: to perform to a certain standard.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So, basically in the social media post, what I basically

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Speaker 1: said was, we've got this kid. We think she's just adorable,

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Speaker 1: and we know we're her biggest fans, which is what

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Speaker 1: parents are supposed to say, right, we love our kids

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Speaker 1: and we really want to celebrate them. But then I

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Speaker 1: highlighted not just the importance of milestones and celebrations, but

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Speaker 1: I said this, she's decided that at this point, university

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Speaker 1: is not where she wants to be, which has meant

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Speaker 1: that this year we have not had any pressure. She's

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Speaker 1: going to do a trainee ship next year and get

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Speaker 1: a qualification, a certificate qualification, and use the experience to

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Speaker 1: help guide her decisions into the future. I highly recommend

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Speaker 1: this approach to parents of children who are not clear

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Speaker 1: on what they want to do for university.

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Speaker 2: Perhaps we'll talk about that in the future.

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Speaker 1: So I figured we should maybe talk about it today

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Speaker 1: because the comments pretty much went off.

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Speaker 3: I think that you know, in general, our seniors are

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Speaker 3: under an enormous amount of pressure. We seem to think

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Speaker 3: that there's only one pathway to success.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's the educational pathway. In fact, I was

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Speaker 1: having a chat with the school principal just the other day,

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Speaker 1: and they've got what they might call advanced classes or

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Speaker 1: an advanced placement course that goes from one grade to

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Speaker 1: the next, to the next to the next.

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Speaker 2: This is a public high school.

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Speaker 1: And the reason they've done that is because there's some

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Speaker 1: kids that really are I guess you'd call them high achievers,

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Speaker 1: and they want to be on a university pathway. And

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Speaker 1: sometimes when they're in classes with kids that don't have

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Speaker 1: the same educational goals, the class can be a little

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Speaker 1: bit challenging for them because they want to learn and

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Speaker 1: some kids are perhaps a little bit less interested in

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Speaker 1: pursuing those learning aspirations. But what this school principle said

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Speaker 1: to me was the kids have picked up this idea

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Speaker 1: that they're somehow superior, there's somehow better people because their

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Speaker 1: career trajectory, their educational career trajectory is aligned with the

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Speaker 1: university path And so how do we teach them that

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Speaker 1: it's actually not about your career, it's about your character.

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Speaker 1: I thought that was really important and a lot of parents.

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Speaker 1: You know, we've got this aspiration that we will see

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Speaker 1: our children maybe go to university and have the high

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Speaker 1: flying career and that kind of thing. And I can't

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Speaker 1: tell you how many parents, and how many students, and

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Speaker 1: how many school principles, and how many counselors and psychologists

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Speaker 1: I've talked to who are saying this experience of year

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Speaker 1: eleven and twelve, particularly year twelve, is so taxing, so

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Speaker 1: very very taxing on our students.

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Speaker 3: We've had a couple of experience in our own home

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Speaker 3: as we watch you, who for all intents and purposes,

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Speaker 3: was pretty much a high school dropout, go through your

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Speaker 3: own metamorphosis as you started as a radio announcer and

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Speaker 3: thoroughly enjoyed that career for some years before deciding that

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Speaker 3: you actually really wanted to go to university and explore

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Speaker 3: learning and growth in a totally different area.

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Speaker 1: There's this saying that I have, and that is that

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Speaker 1: your kids don't belong at university. So once I finished

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Speaker 1: my radio career, For those of you who haven't heard

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Speaker 1: the story, here's the ten second version. I dropped out

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Speaker 1: of radio, went back to school. I'd had a very

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Speaker 1: successful radio career. I ended up at one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest radio stations in the country, spent nearly a decade

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Speaker 1: as a student full time with all of our kids,

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Speaker 1: and then became a university lecturer. I was working there

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Speaker 1: under contract and teaching these classes, and these kids would

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Speaker 1: come from year twelve straight into university to study psychology.

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Speaker 1: And I can't say it more clearly, kids, just don't

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Speaker 1: send your kids to university.

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Speaker 2: They don't belong there.

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Speaker 1: University is not for kids, it's for adults. The number

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Speaker 1: of times that I had these kids come to me

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Speaker 1: and say, I don't even know why I'm here. I

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Speaker 1: hate doing this, and my university bills getting bigger and

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Speaker 1: bigger and bigger, and I'm not interested in anything, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just here.

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Speaker 2: Because I have to be. If you're an adult, or if.

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Speaker 1: You're a young person who knows what you want to do,

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Speaker 1: then go to university one hundred percent and give it everything.

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Speaker 1: But it's not about getting your kids through UNI. It's

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Speaker 1: about getting university through your kids. And if they're not

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Speaker 1: at a point where university is going to go through

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Speaker 1: them and change them, then they shouldn't be there. And

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Speaker 1: we realize that with our second daughter, we learned a

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Speaker 1: lot with our first daughter. You make all the mistakes

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Speaker 1: with the first one. I'm so sorry, kidd oh. If

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Speaker 1: she's listening, we love her, but we made that mistake

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Speaker 1: of really demanding forcing her go to university.

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Speaker 2: She didn't get the grades she wanted.

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Speaker 3: She didn't and then she actually started university, and of

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Speaker 3: course that she was really very interested in. She was, yeah,

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Speaker 3: but bombed out in one of her exams and I.

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Speaker 1: Don't think she even passed first semester.

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Speaker 3: On reflection, No, I think you're right. And as a

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Speaker 3: result of that, just her passion and drive just disintegrated overnight.

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Speaker 1: But really she shouldn't have been there. She was still

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Speaker 1: a kid, and she didn't really know why she was

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Speaker 1: there or what she.

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Speaker 3: Was doing, and so she decided she was not going back.

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Speaker 3: She pulled out. She when got herself a full time job.

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Speaker 3: Because in our house, we have a rule that once

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Speaker 3: you leave high school, you're either learning or you're earning.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about that in some level of detail. My

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Speaker 1: name's doctor Justin Coulson. I'm here with my wife, missus.

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Speaker 1: Happy family is Kylie Coulson. We're talking about how to

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Speaker 1: have the conversation about what to do after year twelve

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Speaker 1: with your children, especially if they're perhaps not quite ready

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Speaker 1: to be on a university track. And we were I

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Speaker 1: guess just summarizing, you know, when you've got this year

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Speaker 1: twelve daughter who's now gone to university, it hasn't worked out.

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Speaker 1: She pretty much said to us, I'm just going to

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Speaker 1: work at the cafe fifteen hours a week, hang out

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Speaker 1: with some friends, have a gap year, and I'll think

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Speaker 1: about what to do after that. And her response, well,

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Speaker 1: you used the phrase and we stole it from Premier

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Speaker 1: Peter Betty from back.

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Speaker 2: When he was the Queensland you need to be earning

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Speaker 2: or learning. She looked at us, like, what do you mean.

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Speaker 3: She wasn't happy with the response.

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Speaker 1: Was she So the rule is full time if we

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Speaker 1: love our kids, but we've also let them know that

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Speaker 1: once they turn eighteen, technically we don't really have a

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Speaker 1: financial responsibility to them. They need to make their own

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Speaker 1: way in the world. That means learning hard lessons, but

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Speaker 1: we figure it's much easier to learn those lessons when

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Speaker 1: you're eighteen or nineteen than when you're thirty four.

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Speaker 3: Well, and to learn them in the safety of your

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Speaker 3: home with us there to guide and direct them. But

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Speaker 3: we also want them to learn to be independent and

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Speaker 3: recognize and value the things that come with adult living

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Speaker 3: in life.

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Speaker 1: So we should talk about this in another podcast. This

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Speaker 1: idea that once our kids get a job, we charge

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Speaker 1: them board and that's a certain percentage of their income.

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Speaker 1: We can talk about that later, but we said to Chanel,

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Speaker 1: if you want to quit university, that's your choice. We

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Speaker 1: actually recognize that it was probably the right decision, and

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Speaker 1: so we were very comfortable with her making that choice,

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Speaker 1: but said, you're not working at the cafe down the road.

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Speaker 1: You're going to have a full time job, or you're

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Speaker 1: going to study full time doing something else, maybe a

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Speaker 1: tape qualification or something like that, but it's full time

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Speaker 1: earning or full time learning.

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Speaker 3: And in her defense, she actually did that. She went

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Speaker 3: out and got herself a full time job. She had

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Speaker 3: Doney's Bit first, a good paying job. She's been working

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Speaker 3: full time. But after about eighteen months of working in

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Speaker 3: this full time job, she realized that this was probably

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Speaker 3: not where she wanted to be and definitely not long term.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, she was already enrolled in a course

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Speaker 3: that she actually was really interested in loved It's a

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Speaker 3: passion of hers. And has been since she was a

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Speaker 3: little girl.

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Speaker 1: And let's be honest, the job that she got was

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Speaker 1: a low skill and therefore, and I don't say this

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Speaker 1: with any disrespect, but it's a low paid, low status

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Speaker 1: job because when you don't have any skills, you don't

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Speaker 1: usually get paid particularly well and you don't get a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of status from it. We're not particularly interested,

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Speaker 1: by the way, in whether or not she's got high

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Speaker 1: pay or low pay, or.

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Speaker 2: High status or low status.

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Speaker 1: What we're interested in is whether or not the job

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Speaker 1: enlarges our children as people.

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Speaker 3: Life satisfaction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and are they growing?

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Speaker 1: And it's the kind of job where there's not a

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Speaker 1: whole lot of growth opportunity. You show up, you do

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Speaker 1: the same thing, you go home, that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: So we would always encourage our kids to be trying

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Speaker 1: to find work where they're serving, making a difference, making

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Speaker 1: a contribution and growing as people. And so eighteen months

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Speaker 1: in and she's turned around and gone.

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Speaker 3: She did, and it was probably a big highlight for

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Speaker 3: us as parents, having watched her go through this process

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Speaker 3: and to get to her own space where she decided

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Speaker 3: and felt like this was actually an avenue she wanted

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Speaker 3: to pursue. So she originally went to university because we

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Speaker 3: told her she needed to. And she's come out of that,

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Speaker 3: gone into the real big world and tried living, you know,

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Speaker 3: adult life, working day in day out, smashing herself, and

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Speaker 3: started to recognize that she actually wants to tap into

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Speaker 3: these skills that she has and this passion that she has.

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Speaker 3: And she started back at TAFE this time, decided to

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Speaker 3: go hands on.

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Speaker 1: And unis in the future. That's her intention. And I

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Speaker 1: think the moral of the story is when we force

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Speaker 1: our kids, it often doesn't work out so well. There's

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Speaker 1: a couple of other points that we should make in

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Speaker 1: wrapping up, and the first point is that life changes

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Speaker 1: when you leave school. So when I used to run

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Speaker 1: workshops before COVID happened, and I'd have a room full

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Speaker 1: of adults and I'd be talking to year twelve parents,

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Speaker 1: I'd ask them, how many of you are still doing

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Speaker 1: the same job that you thought you'd be doing, you know,

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Speaker 1: the one that you went and studied for, the one

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Speaker 1: that you qualified for at university. How many of you

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Speaker 1: are using your university degree every day? And there's normally

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Speaker 1: about twenty five percent of people who say yes. The

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Speaker 1: other seventy five percent. Like, yeah, and I've changed careers.

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Speaker 1: Life has taken a very different trajectory to what I

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Speaker 1: was expecting. Go one O the days, we've got a

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Speaker 1: job for a life. The other thing that's worth highlighting

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Speaker 1: from my point of view, and I know you've got

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Speaker 1: a couple of take home messages as well, But the

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Speaker 1: other thing that I really want to highlight is I

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Speaker 1: can't tell you how many people I know now who

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Speaker 1: have gone back to school in the late twenties, their thirties,

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Speaker 1: their forties as mature age students found alternative pathways into

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Speaker 1: school and university has gone through them and they've gone

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Speaker 1: on to become medical doctors, or they've gotten their PhDs,

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Speaker 1: or they've gone and gotten the master's and become a

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Speaker 1: psychologist or whatever it might be. But it's kind of

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Speaker 1: never too late. And if your child's not ready, they're

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Speaker 1: not ready, don't put the pressure on them. Let them

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Speaker 1: enjoy year twelve.

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Speaker 3: And I think that that's my take home from all

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Speaker 3: of this is just giving our children the time and

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Speaker 3: space they need to grow to work out what it

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Speaker 3: is that they actually want to do. Our daughter in

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Speaker 3: year ten actually had a conversation with a teacher just

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Speaker 3: recently as she was starting to prepare for year eleven,

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Speaker 3: and her teacher actually told her at that point, if

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Speaker 3: she didn't know what she wanted to do after she

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Speaker 3: left school, then she was really a lost cause. No,

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Speaker 3: I couldn't believe it at sixteen years of age.

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Speaker 2: Oh gosh, how I have a conversation. I need to

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Speaker 2: a workshop at that school.

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Speaker 3: It sounds like guess. So that was one of my

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Speaker 3: take homes, And then my last one is just that

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Speaker 3: year twelve is so much easier when we just take

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Speaker 3: the pressure of our children's need to perform and just

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Speaker 3: allow them to space, to be and to work through

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Speaker 3: that process at their own pace. If we're so focused

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Speaker 3: on grades, if we're so focused on outcomes, then we

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Speaker 3: probably are going to miss some of the most important

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Speaker 3: factors in our children's well being overall.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, great stuff. We really hope that you've enjoyed the podcast.

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Speaker 1: If you do enjoy the podcast, please visit Apple Podcasts

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Speaker 1: or wherever you listen and leave a rating and review.

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Speaker 1: Take to you probably about two or three minutes, but

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Speaker 1: my goodness, it makes a difference. The reviews and the

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Speaker 1: ratings are what helped people to find the podcast and

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Speaker 1: have Happier Families. If you'd like more information, you can

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Speaker 1: find us on Instagram. You can find us on Facebook

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Speaker 1: at doctor Justin Colson's Happy Families and please join us

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Speaker 1: memberships every single day.

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Speaker 2: Family keeps on getting bigger.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could say and remember, with a Happy

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Speaker 1: Families membership, we've got them, because happy families don't just

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