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Speaker 1: Already and this this is the Daily This is the Daily.

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Speaker 1: Ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday,

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Speaker 2: the third of July.

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Speaker 1: I'm Zara, I'm Sam.

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Speaker 2: The US Supreme Court has ruled that American presidents cannot

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Speaker 2: be prosecuted for crimes committed while performing official duties. Now,

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Speaker 2: it's a pretty complex topic, and I know that we

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Speaker 2: are on day two of talking about the US, but

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Speaker 2: it is a big story. So in today's deep Dive,

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Speaker 2: we're going to discuss how this decision came to be

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Speaker 2: and why it is so important. Before we get there, though, Sam,

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Speaker 2: it's making headlines.

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Speaker 1: Queensland has announced it will open the state's second permanent

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Speaker 1: pill testing site this week. The drug testing facility on

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Speaker 1: the Gold Coast opens tomorrow and will also offer testing

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Speaker 1: services every Thursday. It comes after the Queensland government launch

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Speaker 1: the state's first pill testing facility in Brisbane in April.

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Speaker 1: According to Health Minister Shannon Fentsmen, more than half the

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Speaker 1: drugs tested at the site have led to users voluntarily

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Speaker 1: discarding their substance. Fentman said, while there is quote no

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Speaker 1: safe way to take illicit drugs, pill testing educates people

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Speaker 1: quote to reduce harm and help them make informed choices.

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Speaker 2: Budget Airlines BONSA has officially gone into liquidation after it

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Speaker 2: entered voluntary administration earlier in the year. An external accounting

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Speaker 2: firm was appointed to wind up business operations back in May,

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Speaker 2: and last month over three hundred employees contracts were terminated

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Speaker 2: after the firm failed to find a buyer to potentially

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Speaker 2: bail out the airline. Bonza workers are now eligible for

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Speaker 2: compensation under federal fare work entitlements. The Transport Workers' Union

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Speaker 2: estimates the employees are owed nearly eleven million dollars in

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Speaker 2: wages and redundancy payments.

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Speaker 1: At least thirty nine people have been killed during violent

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Speaker 1: protests in Kenya. Riots broke out last month in response

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Speaker 1: to the government's plans to introduce new tax legislation. More

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Speaker 1: than three hundred and fifty people have been injured in

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Speaker 1: protests since that's according to Kenya's National Commission on Human Rights.

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Speaker 1: The government has since scrapped its plans to raise taxes. However,

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Speaker 1: the violence is still continuing. The Human Rights Commission said

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Speaker 1: over six hundred people have now been arrested, and it

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Speaker 1: called on Kenyon lawmakers to quote facilitate the rights of

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Speaker 1: protesters while ensuring law and order.

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Speaker 2: In today's good news, researchers have discovered evidence of an

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Speaker 2: ancient First Nation's ritual within a limestone cave in Victoria.

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Speaker 2: Traditional owners and archaeologists found two buried mini fireplaces and

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Speaker 2: wooden sticks smeared with what could be kangaroof at dating

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Speaker 2: back twelve thousand years to the last Ice Age. The

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Speaker 2: findings could be evidence of the oldest culturally transmitted ritual

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Speaker 2: ever recorded. So Sam, when we were thinking about what

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Speaker 2: to do for today's pod, there was a bit of

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Speaker 2: resistance to day two of American politics.

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Speaker 1: It is rare that we do the same kind of

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Speaker 1: area of the news two days in a row.

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Speaker 2: It is, but you can't really skip this story like

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Speaker 2: we were looking at the other stories. There were some

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Speaker 2: really interesting ones, but no story I think today is

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Speaker 2: bigger than this one, which is about a Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: decision in the US and essentially the highest court in

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Speaker 2: the land has ruled that American presidents cannot be prosecuted

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Speaker 2: for crimes committed while performing official duties. Now, the decision

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Speaker 2: in the Supreme Court means that Donald Trump is unlikely

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Speaker 2: to face charges for allegedly attempting to overthrow the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty US election. We'll get into that a bit later.

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Speaker 2: His lawyers argued that the former US president was entitled

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Speaker 2: to presidential immunity during his time in office, and that

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Speaker 2: is this protection that shields individuals from legal action. And

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Speaker 2: it's been this whole big hooha, and here we are.

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Speaker 1: And the first thing I think about when you outline

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Speaker 1: this story is actually Survivor on television, because I have

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Speaker 1: in my whole life. So they have an immunity necklace.

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Speaker 1: And if you have that necklace on, you can't be

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Speaker 1: voted off.

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Speaker 2: Amazing. Does Donald Trump have a necklace?

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Speaker 1: Well, that's kind of my question to you, is in

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Speaker 1: this context, what do you mean when you're talking about immunity.

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Speaker 2: Look, I didn't have written here an example from Survivor,

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Speaker 2: but I will upcate my notes. I instead had examples

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Speaker 2: of immunity that apply to people like diplomats or government officials.

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Speaker 2: Like immunity, this idea of protection or being shielded from

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Speaker 2: the law is not, by any means a novel or

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Speaker 2: a new concept. It's just traditionally not been applied in

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Speaker 2: the US. So if we take another example, King Charles Third,

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Speaker 2: who is, of course the Commonwealth's head of state. He

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Speaker 2: is immune from civil and criminal proceedings. But in the

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Speaker 2: US Constitution there is no such explicit immunity granted for

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Speaker 2: its head of state, the president, so no president had

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Speaker 2: the same immunity that someone like King Charles would have.

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Speaker 2: Since the US broke away from British rule in seventeen

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Speaker 2: seventy six, courts and Congress have debated at various points

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Speaker 2: where the presidents should be immune from legal proceedings and

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Speaker 2: whether they should have those same protections as the Commonwealth

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Speaker 2: affords their head of state.

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Speaker 1: And it's not a particularly frequent discussion because it's not

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Speaker 1: particularly frequent that you do have a president who has

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Speaker 1: committed crimes, and that discussion almost isn't necessary in most

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Speaker 1: presidential terms. With Donald Trump, it's a bit different, though.

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Speaker 2: It is so as we've spoken about a number of

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Speaker 2: times on this podcast before, Donald Trump is currently facing

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Speaker 2: a number of different criminal charges. So there are four

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Speaker 2: separate sets of criminal charges that he's currently looking at.

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Speaker 2: One case relates to secret White House documents that were

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Speaker 2: allegedly found in his Florida home mar Lago earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: He was found guilty of falsifying business records to cover

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Speaker 2: up hush money paid to adult film star Stormy Daniels,

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Speaker 2: and will throw a link to an episode we did

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Speaker 2: that story in today's show notes. The other two cases

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Speaker 2: that Trump is facing at the moment relate to his

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Speaker 2: alleged efforts to overturn his twenty twenty election loss, and

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Speaker 2: that was of course to Joe Biden. Now, I just

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Speaker 2: want to zero in on those two cases for a second,

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Speaker 2: because those are the important ones for the sake of

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Speaker 2: this podcast. So as a refresher. After losing the twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty election, Trump was accused of spreading false claims and

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Speaker 2: obstructing the transition of power to President Joe Biden.

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Speaker 3: I know that everyone here will soon be marching over

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Speaker 3: to the Capitol Building to peacefully make your voices heard.

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Speaker 3: Today we will see whether Republicans stand strong for integrity

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Speaker 3: of our elections.

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Speaker 2: Now, Trump's lawyers said that he was immune from criminal

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Speaker 2: prosecution because he was president at the time that he

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Speaker 2: committed these alleged defenses. Not everyone agreed, and the matter

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Speaker 2: was ultimately escalated to America's highest court, the Supreme Court.

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Speaker 2: And that brings us to now, when the Supreme Court

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Speaker 2: handed down its decision on this.

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Speaker 1: Issue, and the time lag between January six happening and

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Speaker 1: all of the legal dramas and now makes a lot

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Speaker 1: of sense when you think about how complex the US

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Speaker 1: judicial system can be. It takes a while for things

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Speaker 1: to get to the Supreme Court. But now it's here.

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Speaker 1: What was the decision?

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Speaker 2: Essentially, what the Court found was that presidents have what's

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Speaker 2: called presumptive immunity for official actions, but not for unofficial actions. Now,

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Speaker 2: when we're talking about official versus unofficial, this is kind

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Speaker 2: of the big contentious point, but unofficial actions is considered

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Speaker 2: things like personal matters or private behavior. Now, it is

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Speaker 2: a bit tricky here to understand if this presumptive immunity

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Speaker 2: will actually apply to Donald Trump. Because of this difference

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Speaker 2: between official and unofficial, it's not one hundred percent clear

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Speaker 2: whether that applies in this case. So what will happen

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Speaker 2: now is that Donald Trump's case, as I said, is

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Speaker 2: still in front of the courts, and it's now up

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Speaker 2: to the judge who is overseeing that case to determine

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Speaker 2: whether the acts that Trump is accused of in the

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Speaker 2: indictment are official or.

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Speaker 1: Not because they're quite subjective terms, right, Like, I know

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Speaker 1: that you and I are judges, but it's going to

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Speaker 1: be an interesting one as they try and weigh up

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Speaker 1: what does professional actually mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's not a whole lot of precedent

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Speaker 2: here to be expected, but it will form a huge

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Speaker 2: precedent in the courts and it will have very wide

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Speaker 2: ranging implications. If the judge on the case does decide

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Speaker 2: that this does count as official and therefore Trump is

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Speaker 2: protected by this presumptive immunity, it will be fascinating in

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Speaker 2: terms of what that actually means. I know, everyone's minds

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Speaker 2: are on the election, So legal experts do say that

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Speaker 2: the decision will likely delay Trump's trials further, and that

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Speaker 2: could mean that if Trump does win the US election,

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Speaker 2: he could eventually just force the charges against him to

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Speaker 2: be dropped.

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Speaker 1: Right, So there are some pretty major implications in terms

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Speaker 1: of the timeline that's now ahead of us up to November.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So there's now this new doctrine that's been

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Speaker 2: introduced by the Supreme Court in its decision, and that

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Speaker 2: could mean that the decision gets pushed back and push back,

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Speaker 2: and of course post November it's anyone's game.

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Speaker 1: He could be president again, but I just want to

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Speaker 1: stick with this decision. So how did the court vote here?

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Speaker 2: Yees? So it's always important to discuss the makeup of

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Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. I think it's always quite a foreign

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Speaker 2: concept for US Australians to understand the political and the

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Speaker 2: kind of politicization of the Supreme Court. So the Supreme

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Speaker 2: Court's decision was split six ' three between conservative and

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Speaker 2: liberal justices. Now always important to note who those people are.

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Speaker 2: So three of the six conservative justices were appointed during

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Speaker 2: Trump's presidency and on the flip side, one of the

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Speaker 2: liberal justices was appointed under President Biden. Now, obviously the

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Speaker 2: majority voted in favor, and there is this conservative leaning

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Speaker 2: in the court. So it does follow that usually in

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Speaker 2: this case now decisions will skew towards a conservative outcome,

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Speaker 2: as we've seen with Roe v. Wade and a number

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Speaker 2: of other issues. But on the other side of it,

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Speaker 2: we had those judges who dissented, people like Justice Sonya

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Speaker 2: Sodomayor who voted against the presumptive immunity and she said

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Speaker 2: the president is now a king above the law, very

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Speaker 2: strong quote there. She noted, the US president is possibly

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Speaker 2: the most powerful person in the world. And said when

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Speaker 2: he uses his official powers in any way, he will

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Speaker 2: now be insulated from criminal prosecution orders to assassinate a

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Speaker 2: political rival, Immune organizes a military coup to hold on

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Speaker 2: to power. Immune takes a bribe in exchange for a pardon. Immune.

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Speaker 1: That's some really strong language from the U. S. Supreme Court. Now,

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Speaker 1: of course, you can understand because the stakes are really

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Speaker 1: high here because he is running for president again. Did

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Speaker 1: we hear any reaction from the current president, President Biden,

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Speaker 1: his opponent yesterday?

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Speaker 2: We did so. Biden held a press conference shortly after

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Speaker 2: the decision was handed down, and I'll just play a

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Speaker 2: little bit of what he said.

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Speaker 1: America people must decide they want to entrust the presidency

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Speaker 1: to Donald Trump now, knowing he'll be more emboland to

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Speaker 1: do whatever he pleases whenever he wants to do it.

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Speaker 1: And I'm pretty sure I know the answers to this one.

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Speaker 1: But did Donald Trump come out and say anything after

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Speaker 1: the decision as well?

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Speaker 2: He did so. He posted two truth social which is

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Speaker 2: his social media platform, and he called the ruling a

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Speaker 2: big win for our constitution and for democracy.

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Speaker 1: I can't help but remember a comment that you and

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Speaker 1: I made on this podcast A couple of months ago

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Speaker 1: where we described the upcoming election as legal. It's a

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Speaker 1: legal election, and it's uncharacteristic for a US election to

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Speaker 1: be so dominated by these legal issues and by how

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Speaker 1: many times we probably will talk about the court system

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Speaker 1: in the run up to this election, and it introduces

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Speaker 1: a really interesting dynamic into the race.

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Speaker 2: It does. I think the thing that keeps coming back

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Speaker 2: for me, though, is that you can still run as

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Speaker 2: president with criminal charges held against you, and even if

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Speaker 2: you are convicted, you can still run. And I think

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Speaker 2: that you know, all of this kind of legal fanfare,

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Speaker 2: to me, that is the prevailing thought that no matter

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Speaker 2: what happens, even if you know he's not immune, he

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Speaker 2: is still able to run for president. And I find

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Speaker 2: that a pretty remarkable feature of the US political system.

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Speaker 1: I think it's going to be a pretty remarkable year

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Speaker 1: in the US political system. Zara, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for taking us through that, and thank you for joining

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Speaker 1: us today on The Daily OS. If you enjoyed this episode,

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Speaker 1: back again tomorrow morning. Until then, have a great day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Kalgoutin woman from Gadigol Country.

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Speaker 2: The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on

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Speaker 2: the lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to

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Speaker 2: all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. We pay

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Speaker 2: our respects to the first peoples of these countries, both

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Speaker 2: past and present.