WEBVTT - Black Deaths & the Digital Resistance 0:00:02.680 --> 0:00:06.080 Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty 0:00:06.160 --> 0:00:08.480 verdicts against all three defendants. 0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.119 It was absolutely shambles, to tell you the truth, just 0:00:11.240 --> 0:00:12.480 absolutely really coming. 0:00:12.240 --> 0:00:14.800 Blood on his clothing. The day after the alleged at. 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:16.439 Top on a show a mud bank and it fits 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:18.599 through a river. Basically, I think most of the people 0:00:18.640 --> 0:00:21.000 are used to me are good people. I think a 0:00:21.079 --> 0:00:24.160 really important question we need to ask is how many 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:26.360 Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent. 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.880 This is Curtain, a podcast where we pulled back the 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:32.440 blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of 0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:36.240 our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm 0:00:36.280 --> 0:00:38.840 Amy maguire and I'm. 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:43.040 Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner Support Service. 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:47.160 And a warning, this series contains the names of deceased 0:00:47.159 --> 0:00:52.160 peoples and has distressing content that might upset some listeners. 0:00:53.120 --> 0:00:57.760 Welcome to Curtain. For the last few weeks, my co 0:00:57.840 --> 0:01:01.960 host Amy mguire has been traveled around Australia with the 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:07.319 National Justice Projects new initiative called cop Watch. Cop Watch 0:01:07.400 --> 0:01:12.280 is about training and empowering Aboriginal communities to use modern 0:01:12.319 --> 0:01:18.920 technology like mobile phones to document instances of harassment by authorities. 0:01:20.000 --> 0:01:23.200 This is largely to do with interaction with the police, 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:28.360 where often for no good reason, Aboriginal people are targeted 0:01:28.400 --> 0:01:34.440 by police in an aggressive manner, stopped, searched, manhandled, often 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:41.000 assaulted and threatened for absolutely no good reason. With the 0:01:41.040 --> 0:01:47.280 ability to become citizen journalists, to combine basic understandings of 0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.800 the law and how to use social media and media techniques, 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:56.760 Aboriginal communities can protect themselves from this kind of harassment 0:01:57.160 --> 0:02:01.160 and abuse and also highlight it to the world in 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:06.320 an effort to stop this continuing. Over the past fortnight, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.919 Amy and the team have traveled to Redfern in Sydney, 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:15.280 Broken Hill in Outback, New South Wales, Alice Springs in 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:20.200 the Northern Territory, and most recently Cowgooli in Western Australia. 0:02:21.520 --> 0:02:24.600 While they were in Western Australia, it was the one 0:02:24.680 --> 0:02:29.560 year anniversary of the death of mister Elijah Dougherty, a 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.120 young Aboriginal boy who was run down and killed by 0:02:33.160 --> 0:02:36.959 a non Indigenous man who was only convicted, as we've 0:02:37.000 --> 0:02:41.040 discussed on this podcast, of a driving offense. He was 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:47.920 not convicted of manslaughter despite killing young Elijah. Also joining 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:53.760 the team is Sean Harris. He's an advocate campaigning against 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.720 black debts in custody and he has very personal reasons 0:02:57.760 --> 0:03:02.519 as to why he's doing this. His niece is missed You, 0:03:03.800 --> 0:03:08.000 who died at the hands of Western Australian law enforcement 0:03:08.320 --> 0:03:13.600 and Western Australian health officials. Amy sat down this week 0:03:13.680 --> 0:03:17.440 in Calgooli with Sean to talk about what they're doing 0:03:17.480 --> 0:03:21.040 with cop Watch, the harassment they face as they go 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:24.960 about their work, and what Aboriginal people are trying to 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:29.799 do to empower one another and overcome the threats, abuse, 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:35.040 harassment and often death suffered at the hands of authorities. 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:39.880 I'm sitting here with Sean Harris and we're both in Calgurley. 0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:43.600 We've been here traveling around the country together on a 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.000 tour called coop Watch, which is an initiative of the 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.680 National Justice Project and it's basically about informing Aboriginal communities 0:03:51.760 --> 0:03:55.720 of their rights when interacting with police. We've gone to Brokenhill, 0:03:56.400 --> 0:04:01.400 Alice Springs, Redfern and now we're in on the anniversary 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:06.480 of Elijah Dowdy's death. And listeners to this podcast would 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:11.680 know about the case of a young teenage boy who 0:04:11.720 --> 0:04:14.520 was run over by a non Indigenous man who subsequently 0:04:15.160 --> 0:04:18.400 was acquitted of manslaughter over his death and got a 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:25.000 three year sentence for dangerous driving occasionally occasioning death. That 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:29.240 sentence has been seen by many in the Aboriginal community 0:04:29.240 --> 0:04:33.120 in Calgurley as being far too lenient, and generally across 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.640 the country, Aboriginal people have reacted with anger and seen 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:37.239 it as. 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:39.680 The way the. 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:43.400 Justice system and wider Australia treats the lives of Aboriginal children. 0:04:43.560 --> 0:04:47.240 So it's a very sad day for Seann in particular 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:52.239 when we're sitting here in a cal Gurley hotel room 0:04:52.440 --> 0:04:55.600 and we're doing this interview. But Sewan, I just wanted 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:59.520 to start by asking you, I mean, you've seen so 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.000 much sh in Western Australia, you're from this state. What 0:05:03.040 --> 0:05:06.920 does it feel being here, particularly today and knowing what 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:09.120 we've heard about the way police are dealing with the 0:05:09.160 --> 0:05:09.840 community here. 0:05:11.839 --> 0:05:17.760 Yeah, have I I guess to directly be here today 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:26.720 is we've other It's pretty hard to explain. We've come 0:05:26.800 --> 0:05:33.120 here with myself with a pretty heavy art because of 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:37.279 how significant this day is and the last twelve months 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.800 in particular for this the Calgary people out here and 0:05:40.839 --> 0:05:45.240 all the more we just came out here to try 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.159 and support the best that we could, plus to show 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:54.360 our respects and be here with the family by buying 0:05:55.000 --> 0:05:56.760 as from the family as well. You know, we were 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:03.400 trying and stick together and try and bring unity together. 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:05.359 I guess you can say it's there's so much that 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.160 has been going on. You know, I'm still grieving from 0:06:10.160 --> 0:06:12.840 the loss of my big brother back in nineteen eighty 0:06:12.839 --> 0:06:16.200 eight from a here was a passenger in a car 0:06:16.200 --> 0:06:19.600 crossery passed away from there was a a a non 0:06:19.640 --> 0:06:23.719 Indigenous driver who pretty much got let off. So where 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:27.280 m I'm still twenty nine years without justice for my 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.320 past my lost brother as well from a car incidents 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:37.360 in similar circumstances. I guess you would say the racism 0:06:37.440 --> 0:06:40.240 in Australia and especially in particularly in Kirwall is so 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.839 typical and it typifies the fight and the institutional and 0:06:44.920 --> 0:06:47.480 systemic racism. It's still deeply ingrained as well. It's not 0:06:47.520 --> 0:06:51.840 just through the broader community. So as I said before us, 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:54.480 with a very heavy heart, they are where are actually 0:06:54.480 --> 0:07:01.720 here today? Just feel so empty and upset and heartbreaking 0:07:01.720 --> 0:07:06.760 for the family of this poor young boy. Most certainly 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:11.920 as a priority you know, we're all so, we're all 0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:14.200 still in so much shop, the whole border community, especially 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:20.680 the Indigenous community throughout Australia at the the sheer fast 0:07:22.560 --> 0:07:27.800 known as the West Australian judicial system. 0:07:27.880 --> 0:07:31.560 You've seen that personally, haven't you, with your niece in 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:35.240 the way police dealt with your own family. Can you 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.920 tell us a little bit about what happened to your 0:07:38.000 --> 0:07:39.080 niece three years ago? 0:07:40.680 --> 0:07:43.560 Yeah, well, she was a deathing custody back in back 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.320 up in heaven in the pilborgh three three years ago. 0:07:46.360 --> 0:07:53.920 Now so as part of that deeply ingrained and unchecked 0:07:54.520 --> 0:07:59.280 racism that still flourishes throughout the whole state of weststra 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:05.320 and the country. Indeed, that that has played a significant 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:10.320 part in the sad loss of both my niece and 0:08:12.200 --> 0:08:17.320 for young Ms Mister Dody. You know, it's sad to 0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.760 say that that has brought us together and this has 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:23.920 has made us any stronger in the fight for both 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:28.440 of our campaigns for for some sort of justice, for 0:08:28.560 --> 0:08:32.719 these four young people to at least be able to 0:08:32.800 --> 0:08:36.960 rest in peace or some sort of peace, you know. So, yeah, 0:08:36.960 --> 0:08:38.600 it's up to us to try and keep up the 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.880 fight because obviously they're not here to be able to 0:08:41.920 --> 0:08:43.880 stand up for themselves. So we need to be their 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:49.360 voice and as to try and amplify their voice, and 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:52.840 as much as we can, I guess you could. 0:08:52.640 --> 0:08:56.480 Say, how did police treat your niece? 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:05.440 They treated my these with an extreme deprivation of liberty 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.360 that robbed her or her basic human rights. She was 0:09:08.440 --> 0:09:14.200 being she was pretty much begging for her life, she 0:09:14.400 --> 0:09:17.960 was dying, and all her cries and begs for help 0:09:18.800 --> 0:09:23.880 fell on institutionally deaf iss mm. And you know, racism 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:28.640 in Australia has, in the past and always will play 0:09:28.640 --> 0:09:32.760 a massively significant role in the deprivation and the oppression 0:09:32.800 --> 0:09:36.400 of our peoples that's continually inflicted, inflicted so freely on 0:09:36.480 --> 0:09:39.000 us on a daily basis. So it's sad to say 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:45.400 that constant Indigenous all around Australia are pretty much in 0:09:45.400 --> 0:09:50.440 a perpetual state of grief because of the because of 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:53.680 the system. So it's hard to be able to fight 0:09:54.480 --> 0:09:59.040 and keep up to sustain the campaign for justice in 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:05.480 any sense when there's no chance to grieve. MM. Yet 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:11.640 we're still having to mount and start other campaigns for 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:15.720 justice seemingly left right and center. It's just non stop. 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:21.320 So a perpetual started grief where we're constantly, constantly unable 0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:26.000 to actually grieve mm so W We're constantly just hurt 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:29.040 and shattered across the nation, across the whole board. And 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:32.240 there's no doubt about that that institutional racism, be it 0:10:32.360 --> 0:10:37.000 through the broader community or well the deeply ingrain racing 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.000 through the broader community, plus the institutional and systemic racism 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:45.199 plays a massive role in in in so many issues 0:10:45.240 --> 0:10:48.640 out there, and these are not just indigenous issues. All 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.240 these issues are community issues. And the only way that 0:10:52.280 --> 0:10:55.080 the whole of Australia can move forward is by standing 0:10:55.120 --> 0:11:01.480 up at as one and voicing our probably out as 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:03.240 a united front. And I guess you would say. 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.280 I've always thought that the way your niece has treated 0:11:06.320 --> 0:11:09.720 so she was crying out for in pain for three 0:11:09.840 --> 0:11:13.920 days and was continually ignored by health authorities and police, 0:11:14.000 --> 0:11:17.839 accused of faking it, accused of being a junkie, all 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:22.240 the while she was slowly dying from septicemia. I always 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:26.960 thought that her pain really mirrors your pain because ever 0:11:27.040 --> 0:11:30.240 since she passed away, your family have had to deal with, 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.000 you know, the authorities ignoring you. You've had to deal 0:11:34.040 --> 0:11:40.120 with wider Australia ignoring your own pain. How do you 0:11:40.160 --> 0:11:42.840 think your family have been able to cope in the 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.440 wake of so much injustice and the fact that you've 0:11:46.160 --> 0:11:50.320 really had to campaign all across the country just to 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:53.240 get Australia to even begin to care. You've had to 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.439 go through such extraordinary lengths just to get Australia to 0:11:56.520 --> 0:11:58.480 understand that your niece was a human being. 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:05.640 Yeah, well, w what privilege plays a a very massive 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:11.400 role in in this whole process. It's sad. So it's 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:13.840 still so sad to say that the overwhelming majority of 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:16.280 the public population and the public message out there are 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:21.160 still wrapped in some sort of social bubble and they're 0:12:21.160 --> 0:12:25.200 in denial over the sad reality and the facts of 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:28.240 what's really out there and what's going on on a 0:12:28.280 --> 0:12:30.640 daily basis. It's not just in one sport every day 0:12:30.760 --> 0:12:38.120 around Stoia. It's it's happens everywhere and the fact that 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:42.319 it's a lot is still being covered up and what 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:47.120 it was praise that that's why, that's the reason why 0:12:47.160 --> 0:12:50.120 there's no accountability through the system MM and no accountability 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:54.160 means that there all these issues and especially death in custody. 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:58.920 You know, it are always gonna happen. Mm. This nothing 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.840 is gonna change if the perpetrators are not held a cannibal, 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:07.240 as the system always says to the criminals, you know, 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.640 if you do the crime, you've got to do the time. Well, 0:13:11.000 --> 0:13:15.720 the judicial system will never be equal if the watchers 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:19.679 are never kept accountable as well. I'll go back to 0:13:19.720 --> 0:13:25.280 the racism because racism very obviously is a messive, an 0:13:25.320 --> 0:13:35.160 extremely big problem throughout the strain society. And the only 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:37.600 way that we can address that in this day, I especially, 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.040 is to stand up as one. So it's very hard. 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.400 Just recently, you've had an encounter when we're in Alice 0:13:44.400 --> 0:13:49.240 Springs with police. Did you feel comfortable talking about how 0:13:49.280 --> 0:13:51.360 they treated you? We're only in you were only in 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.360 others for two days. How did the police treat you there? 0:13:55.640 --> 0:14:00.400 Yeah? Well, funny thing. I was just actually going to 0:14:00.640 --> 0:14:04.240 a shop to get a bottle of coke actually, and 0:14:04.400 --> 0:14:07.600 there were almost every shop in our springs has a 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.160 bottle shop. So there is a policeman almost at every 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:14.840 shop in our springs who constantly harass and are constantly 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.240 asking the indigenous people, including the elders, all the time 0:14:18.280 --> 0:14:20.000 and for id just when they have to go into 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.600 a sleep market, so this is before so I actually 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.840 went in. I filmed the police as we pulled up 0:14:25.840 --> 0:14:31.200 from a safe distance, say twenty odd meters away. The 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:33.880 police apparently did not like that very much, so he 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.840 followed me into a shop and kept threatening that he 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:45.240 would could take my phone and my device for filming him, 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.520 which I kept saying that he couldn't mean he had 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:50.240 no rights to and he said, I kept saying that 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:51.880 he will take my phone. I said no you won't. 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.280 I said no you can't, so he kept I ended 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.480 up having to tell him that I actually flew into 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.120 our springs as a part a team with cot Watch 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:08.520 team and her purpose was to teach our people was 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:13.840 about our rots and filming the police. So that was 0:15:13.880 --> 0:15:17.280 a bit of a bit of a wake up called 0:15:17.320 --> 0:15:19.240 bit of surprise for the police to actually hear that 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:21.680 I was part of a cop watch team. He was 0:15:22.040 --> 0:15:24.840 who just lew in Dalla Springs to try and help 0:15:25.360 --> 0:15:27.840 teach and educate our people on our rights, you know, 0:15:27.960 --> 0:15:31.880 And he actually harassed me and followed me around in 0:15:31.920 --> 0:15:35.600 the shop for a while. Hence we had a bit 0:15:35.640 --> 0:15:39.400 of a confrontation at the front afterwards, after I left 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:42.280 the supermarket with my bottle of coke at that. 0:15:44.400 --> 0:15:47.080 So you're criminalized just forgetting a bottle of coke, pretty. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:51.520 Much, Yeah, that's pretty pretty much so. And he even 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:55.560 called for back up. I was actually with someone like 0:15:55.680 --> 0:16:03.360 a female, other indigenous female, and and the policeman called 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:06.480 for backup and actually told the backup to arrest us, 0:16:07.320 --> 0:16:11.560 which obviously didn't happen. The policeman he actually turned up 0:16:11.600 --> 0:16:13.560 for backup, and they didn't want to part of it, 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.800 and they even actually said to my female friend that 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:17.880 they were we were allowed to fill in the place. 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:22.840 M But that being said, now, my female friend has 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.760 already been paid a visit by the police since we 0:16:25.840 --> 0:16:28.520 have left, and has been threatened and actually charged with 0:16:29.200 --> 0:16:36.160 or petty really minister trumped up charges you know, because 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.680 of her. And she actually has been or has been 0:16:40.880 --> 0:16:43.400 seriously threatened to be put on the band drinkers register 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:47.480 as well, which has totally nothing to do with the 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:49.480 incident that happened. You know, We've got a video proof 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:55.280 of this police officer as well. So I am actually 0:16:55.280 --> 0:16:57.960 wanted to make a complaint about this, but as soon 0:16:58.000 --> 0:17:03.320 as time they permit, you know, we but yeah, I'm 0:17:03.360 --> 0:17:07.560 not being said that that just typifies the the the 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.200 institutional racism that still flourishes in our springs. 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:12.760 Do you think it would have happened to a white 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:14.040 person going in to buy a coke? 0:17:14.720 --> 0:17:19.680 Yeah? No, definitely not. From all everything I've been hearing 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:22.080 about our springs with the intervention, you know that the 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.480 white people don't ever ever get harassed nice for ID 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:29.720 at any liquor store or any liquor outlet. It's just 0:17:30.400 --> 0:17:38.120 constantly black people, and only black people. There's maybe half 0:17:38.240 --> 0:17:41.480 percent a white person will actually get ups for ID, 0:17:41.960 --> 0:17:44.919 and there's some glorifying that a half percent. 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:49.879 I must say, do you trust police after everything that 0:17:49.880 --> 0:17:51.880 you've gone through, but also what happened to your niece 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:54.679 and what we've seen here in Cargoley. 0:17:55.760 --> 0:17:57.600 It's sad to say I really do not trust place. 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:00.119 There is no absolutely no place in community relationship. It's 0:18:00.320 --> 0:18:04.520 at at all in the gross majority the the of 0:18:04.720 --> 0:18:12.360 of austrain population, indigenous population. There's no efforts, especially in Karagali, 0:18:13.280 --> 0:18:17.280 there is totally no efforts, a real effort on the 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.960 part of the system to try and to make police 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:27.680 and citizens relationships simply because I don't wanna mm the 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:32.360 the level of racism here is is it's it's outstanding. 0:18:33.280 --> 0:18:38.640 It it's so sad to say, I I wanna say, 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:41.960 it's so unbelievable, it's I'm from Wa Sa. Sadly it's 0:18:42.000 --> 0:18:46.960 it's not unbelievable at all. The unbelievable thing about it 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:51.440 is that it's still happening. It's still happening so fairly 0:18:51.480 --> 0:19:00.159 and uncounted. Where is the accountability? You know that they 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.440 just keep continuing to try and provoke the people into 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.040 being aggressiveness and it's and it's not our it's not 0:19:05.119 --> 0:19:08.920 our race in general. We're a happy people. Where are 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.160 coined people and we have been for us hundreds thousand years, 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.359 so to p to be able to to have to 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:22.080 be continually pressed and such rotten and sickening racism being 0:19:22.920 --> 0:19:24.919 slung at us on a on a daily basis, you know, 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:31.719 and us we're continually expected to just take no notes. Mm. 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:34.080 That is part of the psychological warfare where the system 0:19:34.119 --> 0:19:36.680 is still trying to break us all down mentally and physically, 0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.840 you know, just trying to break our spirits. And it's 0:19:39.920 --> 0:19:46.440 just another sly way of them pushing their wide Australia 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:51.760 policy and a part of Australia, they're finding more covert 0:19:51.800 --> 0:19:54.040 ways to inflict that kind of side on our people 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:59.320 and ethnic cleansing, and they're extending the their racial, racially 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:03.199 biased laws not just against the Indigenous people, but to 0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:05.040 the broader community now as well, which is why the 0:20:05.160 --> 0:20:10.280 broader community is starting to, I guess, get more frustrated 0:20:10.400 --> 0:20:13.200 with the system because they're finally starting to be subjected 0:20:13.240 --> 0:20:16.159 to the laws that we've always been subjected to. The 0:20:16.280 --> 0:20:19.240 police are just expanding thetter actual laws to the whole 0:20:19.240 --> 0:20:21.719 broader community because they're getting away with it with us 0:20:21.720 --> 0:20:26.439 black people. So now they're just yeah, they're just moving on. 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.720 And I still feel the broader community they still view 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:35.080 police as protectives. They don't believe Aboriginal people even did 0:20:35.119 --> 0:20:38.199 you think, what do you think we need? Oh well, 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:40.720 I don't think the owners should be on Aboriginal people anyway. 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.760 But how can Australians actually understand that this is a 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:50.119 real threat. I mean, we saw the video footage of 0:20:50.160 --> 0:20:54.120 your niece's last hours was actually released to the public, 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:57.000 and yet we're still having to fight to actually get 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:00.760 people to believe us against the police. It's like white 0:21:00.760 --> 0:21:04.040 Astralia's closer to the police than they'll ever be too 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:10.000 understanding Aboriginal people because so many Australians don't have direct 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:11.359 contact with Aboriginal people. 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:16.480 Yeah, it well was. It's still very sad to hear 0:21:16.520 --> 0:21:19.119 that a lot these days. A lot of white people 0:21:19.200 --> 0:21:22.680 who are a lot of white city folk, they see 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:27.000 an original and they asks an Aboriginal for Indigenous if 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:29.159 the original, you know, they have not even seen one 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:32.600 yet and they're thirty forty fifty years old. That is 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:36.639 so that really is unbeluetable. That's and yet these people 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:41.240 have to hide to have opinions on Indigenous and they're 0:21:41.440 --> 0:21:44.000 they're always never wrong, and they're always factually right when 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:47.560 they're when in natural fact, they're not. Just the white 0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.240 privilege and the institutional arrogance as well. It's not just 0:21:50.280 --> 0:21:53.360 the racism that's dead being rained through the whole community. 0:21:53.560 --> 0:22:00.400 It's just the arrogance and the the do you European 0:22:00.480 --> 0:22:04.240 hierarchies and classes? You know, we didn't have classes and hierarchies, 0:22:04.600 --> 0:22:07.639 and until they came and invaded and started murdering and 0:22:07.640 --> 0:22:13.919 messaging us. And that's the Western world system. It's not 0:22:13.960 --> 0:22:18.679 our system. We work as community and we always have 0:22:18.880 --> 0:22:20.800 since forever. 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.919 So and just finally, like when you talk about the 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:27.439 fact that you know we're all fighting similar struggles and 0:22:27.560 --> 0:22:30.000 we have links all across the country. This podcast is 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.439 really detailing a really bad injustice that happened in my 0:22:33.480 --> 0:22:36.159 hometown of Rock campdon in nine ninety one, and the 0:22:36.240 --> 0:22:38.479 man who was wrongfully convicted over the murder of an 0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:42.920 Aboriginal woman who there's never justice over her death. He's 0:22:42.960 --> 0:22:46.720 still inside. Do you have any messages of support for him? 0:22:46.800 --> 0:22:51.239 Considering you know those messages of unity, how do you 0:22:51.320 --> 0:22:55.320 recommend we keep going and we continue fighting. 0:22:57.000 --> 0:23:01.879 Yeah? Also hard on this case is obviously say it's 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:04.560 distressing as well to know of them, to try and 0:23:04.640 --> 0:23:07.479 keep track of as much as possible. You know, this 0:23:07.560 --> 0:23:14.359 also typifies the system. All I can say is that 0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:20.280 there is support there, and there is help we are trying. 0:23:21.240 --> 0:23:24.000 We're all spread safein. Is the thing as well, or 0:23:24.040 --> 0:23:26.000 all the people who are trying to do this and 0:23:26.000 --> 0:23:29.920 that for the community and trying to enforce change, we're 0:23:29.920 --> 0:23:34.560 all spread safein. It makes it hard to actually being together. 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:38.560 And as well as this country being so massive and 0:23:38.840 --> 0:23:40.800 all our people being so oppressed, it makes it harder 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:44.080 to actually cross country to help and support all of 0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:49.720 our peoples across the country, you know, But yeah, I 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:53.879 guess trying not to give up. We all have to 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:57.560 keep fighting it and say very hard it seriously does. 0:23:58.640 --> 0:23:59.920 It's so hard to even get up out of it 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:05.680 and think, how are we gonna s start this day after? 0:24:05.960 --> 0:24:07.920 You know, when every day is almost as bad as 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:13.480 in the next. I guess it's just in our blood's 0:24:13.640 --> 0:24:16.440 a that's just who we are to try and help 0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:21.879 who we can mm and even if we have nothing, 0:24:21.960 --> 0:24:24.080 that's just what we do, how we look after each 0:24:24.080 --> 0:24:26.000 other as a communion, and that's the way we've worked 0:24:26.000 --> 0:24:30.200 since for us since just as our elders, elders and accesss. 0:24:30.280 --> 0:24:34.120 Did you know, we can't change that out the drop 0:24:34.119 --> 0:24:36.040 of a hat, because that's who we are. It's it's 0:24:36.040 --> 0:24:40.160 built in. Say yeah, the help and support is there. 0:24:40.160 --> 0:24:45.119 It's just that a lot of time, it's so frustrating 0:24:45.160 --> 0:24:47.400 that we don't see that help and support as much, 0:24:47.480 --> 0:24:51.640 but it is there. Yeah, so please don't give up. 0:24:52.560 --> 0:24:57.000 We like I'm saying, we're all spread safin, but we 0:24:57.040 --> 0:24:58.919 all help each other out when we can, and we 0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:03.800 are only getting stronger. Boy, as a whole community, as 0:25:03.800 --> 0:25:07.760 a national front in the whole community sense australog Yes, 0:25:08.800 --> 0:25:09.720 thank you so much. 0:25:11.280 --> 0:25:13.760 Our thanks to Sean for all the work he's been 0:25:13.800 --> 0:25:17.560 doing over the last few years, the work he continues 0:25:17.600 --> 0:25:20.560 to do, and for taking the time to sit down 0:25:20.720 --> 0:25:25.000 to speak with Amy and Curtain. Think about what you've 0:25:25.080 --> 0:25:29.760 just heard in that interview with Sean. Here is a 0:25:29.840 --> 0:25:35.000 human rights campaigner, an advocate trying to prevent black deaths 0:25:35.000 --> 0:25:40.400 in custody, whose own brother was tragically taken, whose own 0:25:40.520 --> 0:25:44.959 niece died at the hands of Western Australian police and 0:25:45.000 --> 0:25:49.840 the Western Australian health system. Nobody has been accountable for 0:25:49.960 --> 0:25:54.199 those deaths, and Sean is not trying to help just 0:25:54.280 --> 0:26:00.320 his family but all Aboriginal people around the country. But 0:26:00.400 --> 0:26:04.520 imagine the stress at places on people and on communities 0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:09.320 that their family members are murdered by the state and 0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.400 yet they're the ones that have to travel the country 0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:17.760 trying to get justice. Imagine the psychological toll this takes. 0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:22.680 This is why it's vital that projects like ours Curtain, 0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:27.080 where we're highlighting what is being done to Aboriginal people. 0:26:27.520 --> 0:26:31.760 The injustices right around the country are not only supported, 0:26:32.359 --> 0:26:36.360 but that the individuals like sean on the ground who 0:26:36.359 --> 0:26:41.280 are doing the hard work are supported too. What you 0:26:41.359 --> 0:26:46.159 heard in this podcast today was the fact that a 0:26:46.200 --> 0:26:49.439 young man who's going about his work, who's trying to 0:26:49.440 --> 0:26:55.359 teach people about human rights, is still targeted by law enforcement, 0:26:55.840 --> 0:27:00.919 harassed and threatened even though he is doing absolutely nothing wrong. 0:27:01.640 --> 0:27:04.040 Why is it a crime to buy a bottle of 0:27:04.080 --> 0:27:08.520 coke in this country and it's only that for Aboriginal 0:27:08.520 --> 0:27:14.760 and Torres Strait Islander people. Sadly, the burden on changing 0:27:14.800 --> 0:27:20.040 this cannot be left solely to the Aboriginal community. This 0:27:20.119 --> 0:27:24.639