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Speaker 1: Today's podcast is brought to you by pay id. Payid

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Speaker 1: can help reduce scams or mistaken payments by letting you

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Speaker 1: see who you're paying before you hit send. Remember payid

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Speaker 1: will never contact you directly. Any text or email claiming

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Speaker 1: to come from payid is a scam. Spread the word

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Speaker 1: and stay secure in online marketplaces. T's and c's apply

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Speaker 1: find out more at payid dot com dot au.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Sunday,

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Speaker 2: the fifteenth of June.

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Speaker 1: I'm believed Simon's I'm Emma Gillespie.

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Speaker 2: Today we are talking about tax time. Now, there is

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Speaker 2: a whole range of things to think about this time

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Speaker 2: of year. There's your actual tax return, there's the sales

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Speaker 2: at all the stores personal favorite, yes, which is an

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Speaker 2: amazing bonus. But there's also an increase in scams and

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Speaker 2: that is what we are here to talk about today.

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Speaker 2: So why is there a rise in scams when it

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Speaker 2: comes to tax time and what do you need to

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Speaker 2: look out for. We are getting into all of this

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Speaker 2: in it today's podcast, And just a quick note before

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Speaker 2: we get started. As you heard at the top of

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Speaker 2: this episode is sponsored by payid, but they have had

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Speaker 2: no influence over the content of this episode.

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Speaker 1: Billy, I can't believe we are here again. It's nearly

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Speaker 1: tax time.

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Speaker 2: It's our favorite time of year, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: Well, a favorite time of year if you are a

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Speaker 1: bargain hunter and you're like a sale, favorite time of

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Speaker 1: year if you are good at tax returns, if you

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Speaker 1: like numbers, if you like numbers, and favorite time of

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Speaker 1: year if you happen to be getting a tax return. Yes,

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Speaker 1: less of a favorite time of year if you're bad

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Speaker 1: at received and if you owe money to the tax department.

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Speaker 1: But for anyone who is less familiar with what this

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Speaker 1: all means, what do we need to know?

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Speaker 2: Okay, so it's tax time because it is the end

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Speaker 2: of the financial year, which is always smack bang in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the calendar year. So it ends on

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Speaker 2: the thirtieth of June, and as of the first of July,

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Speaker 2: we are in a brand new financial year. Now most

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Speaker 2: people will need to lodge a tax return for the

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Speaker 2: financial year that has just been so the well, we

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Speaker 2: are currently still in it, but we're at the very end.

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Speaker 2: So that's the twenty twenty four to twenty five financial year,

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Speaker 2: and you need to actually do that. We say it's

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Speaker 2: tax time, but tax time actually goes for four months,

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Speaker 2: so you need to lodge your tax return if you

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Speaker 2: are lodging one by the end of October, and that

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Speaker 2: is if you don't have an accountant. If you do

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Speaker 2: have an accountant, then you have a little bit longer

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Speaker 2: to do that. But that's a whole different podcast.

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Speaker 1: So the end of financial year June thirty, basically, from

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Speaker 1: that point to the end of October, generally speaking, that

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Speaker 1: is your window to lodge your tax return exactly. The

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Speaker 1: Australian Taxation Office.

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Speaker 2: Yes, but we're.

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Speaker 1: Talking about scams today and we hear a lot about

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Speaker 1: scams in the media, I suppose, but I'm surprised to

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Speaker 1: hear about a relationship between tax time and scams specifically.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I feel like scams is one of those things

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Speaker 2: that you don't really care about until you get scammed.

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Speaker 2: And my analogy for this is Emma. You are obviously

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Speaker 2: familiar with Media Watch, which is the ABC's program that

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Speaker 2: comes out every Monday where they kind of assess the

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Speaker 2: week that has been for media and I guess critique

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Speaker 2: what has gone on in the media.

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Speaker 1: Bit of a fact checking service. Yes, holding all of

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Speaker 1: us journals to account making sure we're speaking truth.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And their saying is everyone loves us until you're

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Speaker 2: on it. And I've always loved that because it's so accurate,

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Speaker 2: and I feel like scams, it's not really something that

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Speaker 2: you ever think about until it affects you and then

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Speaker 2: you really care about.

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Speaker 1: Good point, So why do scams increase around tax time?

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Speaker 2: So it's really because tax time is when most people

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Speaker 2: would be in contact with the Australian Taxation Office, so

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Speaker 2: the ATO or they might expect to be hearing from them,

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, and so scammers will be on the lookout

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Speaker 2: to take advantage of that. And how this often happens

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Speaker 2: is that scammers will send a message impersonating the ATO.

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Speaker 2: When I was doing the research for this, I was like,

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Speaker 2: I swear this has actually happened to me before.

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Speaker 1: Really this happened to me this week. Really, yes, honestly,

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Speaker 1: And I didn't even know we were going to be

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Speaker 1: talking about this. Oh my god, I got a text

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Speaker 1: and it's like a fake mygo of. You have a

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Speaker 1: message from mygo of regarding your tax return blah blah blah.

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Speaker 1: Obviously I didn't click it. The number wasn't a legitimate number,

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Speaker 1: like it was a scam text, but it's already happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I received one last year I discovered and

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Speaker 2: it said you have received a secure message about a

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Speaker 2: tax adjustment from the ATO. Review it now at and

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Speaker 2: then it provided a link that word secure. I'm sure

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Speaker 2: when I looked at it, I was like, that kind

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Speaker 2: of looks legitimate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think something that scammers take advantage of

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Speaker 1: in this space as well is that I think it's

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Speaker 1: pretty nah rual for people to feel a bit nervous

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Speaker 1: about tax time. You know, if you're new in your

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Speaker 1: career and you haven't done heaps of tax returns in

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Speaker 1: the past, it can feel overwhelming. The ATO can seem

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Speaker 1: like this kind of big, scary official authority. And so

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Speaker 1: if you get a message, yeah, saying that maybe you've

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Speaker 1: done something wrong or something's changed, or you need to

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Speaker 1: update your details, I think people can often be intimidated

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Speaker 1: into into not thinking and just kind of acting on

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Speaker 1: clicking on something.

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Speaker 2: Well, you don't want to disappoint the ATO exactly. That's

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Speaker 2: like the one government agency that you cannot disappoint.

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Speaker 1: Literally, So how do we know if we've received a

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Speaker 1: genuine piece of communication from the ATO, or if a

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Speaker 1: scam is a scam.

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Speaker 2: So in that example or like the one that you've

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Speaker 2: received this week, I think the first thing that you

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Speaker 2: can do, like is google it, good old Google. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: that is a great first step because often you can

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Speaker 2: actually just copy and paste the text that you received,

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Speaker 2: put it in Google and it will often tell you

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Speaker 2: if it is a scam christ And so that's a

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Speaker 2: great first step. But separate from that, I try to

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Speaker 2: understand how often is it or likely is it that

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Speaker 2: the ATO would ever send you a link like this?

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Speaker 2: And the ATO says that while they might send you

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Speaker 2: a text or an email asking you to contact them,

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Speaker 2: they will never send an unsolicited message with a link

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Speaker 2: asking you to return personal information or log into their

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Speaker 2: online services. So if you ever receive a text message

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Speaker 2: saying it's from the ATO and it has a link,

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Speaker 2: that is an absolute red flag. They say that they

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Speaker 2: will never do that.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So this makes a lot of sense when I

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Speaker 1: think of legitimate texts that I've got from my goove

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Speaker 1: through the ATO or whatever, and it will often say

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Speaker 1: like you have a message in your inbox, so like

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Speaker 1: go and log in, Yes, but there are no links.

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Speaker 1: It's just kind of prompting you to independently go through

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Speaker 1: the proper channels to log in.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so anything from the ATO with a link that

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Speaker 2: is not them that is a scam.

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Speaker 1: Got it.

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Speaker 2: Another thing they said is that whilst they do have

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Speaker 2: official social media accounts, they will never use those platforms

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Speaker 2: to ask you to provide payments or any personal information. Okay, which,

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Speaker 2: if you think about it, makes sense. It would be

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Speaker 2: weird if the official ATO instagram M Yes, yep, but

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Speaker 2: that doesn't quite feel like an official way to communicate

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Speaker 2: with Australia.

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Speaker 1: But we know that scammers are really sophisticated and they

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Speaker 1: can make very compelling fake websites, fake social media accounts. Yes,

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Speaker 1: they can convince people pretty easily that these are real,

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Speaker 1: legitimate platforms.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think that's the thing that they are

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Speaker 2: becoming much more convincing and they are becoming much more sophisticated,

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Speaker 2: and so that's why it's important to talk about it.

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Speaker 1: How else does scams show up? What other kind of

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Speaker 1: common scams are we seeing that young people and listeners

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Speaker 1: might be interacting with.

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Speaker 2: So another one that they have flagged that is quite

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Speaker 2: common from scammers is a tax debt. So, M you

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Speaker 2: were talking about before. With tax time, sometimes you might

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Speaker 2: be eligible for a tax refund, or there are circumstances

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Speaker 2: where you might actually owe money to the ATO, and

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Speaker 2: so that could be considered a tax debt, and that

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Speaker 2: is often what scammers will be using or telling people

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Speaker 2: they have. So you might get a message claiming that

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Speaker 2: you owe the ATO money and it might give you

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Speaker 2: a fake case reference number or something like that again

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Speaker 2: to make it look more convincing, and often they'll push

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Speaker 2: you to pay immediately, and that is another red flag

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Speaker 2: that if they are urgently requiring payment, it is usually

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Speaker 2: unlikely that you would hear about the debt for the

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Speaker 2: first time in a really urgent manner, like it's something

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Speaker 2: that you would hear about. You would have a time

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Speaker 2: period or a deadline to pay it by, and then

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Speaker 2: if you go past that, yep, am I making sense? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Absolutely. I'm just thinking about a voicemail that I got

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Speaker 1: a few weeks ago as well, realizing wow, I'm scam

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Speaker 1: hotspot over. My nuther must be on the wrong list.

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Speaker 1: But I had a voicemail recently. It was definitely like

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Speaker 1: a robot automated voicemail, and the voice was an American accent,

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Speaker 1: which kind of threw me as well. I thought, like,

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Speaker 1: is the ATO really leaving voicemails with an American robot? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but it was a kind of like, yeah, you owe

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Speaker 1: the Taxation Office. I think it was like four thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars or something like respond immediately or risk for the proceedings.

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Speaker 1: And to me, it was clear that it was a scam,

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Speaker 1: but I could completely understand why somebody else might be

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Speaker 1: sucked into that.

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Speaker 2: And another way that it could be a red flag

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Speaker 2: is if they are requesting payment through unconventional means. So

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Speaker 2: if they're saying you can pay it through crypto, that

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Speaker 2: is another red flag. The ATO with federal governments, no,

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Speaker 2: definitely not So.

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Speaker 1: How common, Billy, are these types of tax scams? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I think my lived experience might answer some of these questions,

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Speaker 1: But is this happening to everyone else?

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Speaker 2: I'm actually going to throw it back to you because

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Speaker 2: I want to know how much you think it has increased,

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Speaker 2: because this is actually the perfect time to be talking

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Speaker 2: about it, because the ATO actually just put out a

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Speaker 2: statement earlier this month telling us the percentage by which

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Speaker 2: these scams have increased just in the past year. Can

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Speaker 2: you guess how much.

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Speaker 1: Okay, well, I'm thinking back to last tax time and

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Speaker 1: I don't think I received any scams.

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Speaker 2: I love this one person study quality.

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Speaker 1: Not quantity, and I received two scam communications so far

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Speaker 1: this year. Average it out and say there's been a

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent increase.

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Speaker 2: That is a great guess, not quite accurate. It's more

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Speaker 2: than that. No, Yes, oh my god, there has been

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Speaker 2: a three hundred increase again just in the past year.

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Speaker 1: So I should have stuck to my guns. I've had

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Speaker 1: two hundred percentage grace there you go. Three hundred percent

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Speaker 1: in one year is a massive billy. Yes, And I

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Speaker 1: guess really speaks to the sophistic that we've touched on

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Speaker 1: of how much savvy a scammers are kind of.

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Speaker 2: Getting in their approach.

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Speaker 1: Clearly this is a much more saturated space and people

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Speaker 1: are thinking outside the box. Ye, But what should people

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Speaker 1: do if they receive a message they're not sure about.

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Speaker 1: Say someone does get a text claiming it's from the ATO.

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Speaker 1: There is a link, maybe there's not a link. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you're too scared to do anything with it.

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Speaker 2: I think the easiest thing to do is to just

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Speaker 2: go directly to the source and to ask them. So

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Speaker 2: if you get a message claiming to be from the ATO,

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Speaker 2: you can always just call the ATO on the number

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Speaker 2: listed on their website and just ask them directly if

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Speaker 2: they sent you that text. This actually happened to me

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Speaker 2: the other day when I was at the post office

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Speaker 2: and I got a text from them saying you need

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Speaker 2: to pick up this delivery or it hasn't gone to

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Speaker 2: the right destination, so please call this number. And I

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Speaker 2: just happened to be at the post office for something

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Speaker 2: completely different ye at that time, and I was like, Huh,

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Speaker 2: what a weird text to receive. I'm just going to

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Speaker 2: ask ask the Post Office if this was them. They

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Speaker 2: were able to look it up immediately and they said, no,

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Speaker 2: that's a scam, and it was such a it was

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Speaker 2: great timing there you go. So it was great to

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Speaker 2: just be able to ask them directly. And I think,

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Speaker 2: especially when it comes to giving over personal information or

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Speaker 2: giving over money or something like that, it is really

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Speaker 2: important to make sure that you're giving it to the

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Speaker 2: right person or company or agency. Going straight to the source,

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Speaker 2: I think is a great solution.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, you know, we're talking about tax time and we're

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Speaker 1: talking about these ATIO specific scams, but that rule of

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Speaker 1: thumb I think applies across the board. Just generally, it's

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Speaker 1: good to have that curiosity, be skeptical. If something doesn't

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Speaker 1: feel right, it probably isn't. Yes, I also think it's

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Speaker 1: really helpful to engage with scam safety to help other

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Speaker 1: people in your life. And I know my parents would

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Speaker 1: probably have been duped hundreds of time by now if

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Speaker 1: I hadn't told them like, no, that's a scam.

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Speaker 2: My mum literally told me a story the other week

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Speaker 2: about her being scammed when she went to buy shoes

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Speaker 2: and then yeah, it actually was a company, it didn't exist.

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Speaker 1: Oh dear, Well, my mom still screenshots, you know, the

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Speaker 1: hey mom text.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Like it'll be like, hey boss.

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Speaker 1: My phone, I'm texting on her friends like what's app

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Speaker 1: me on this numbla blah blah blah. My mom will

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Speaker 1: still screenshot them and be like, I know this is

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Speaker 1: probably a scam, but just checking.

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Speaker 2: Is this you that? Honestly that's lovely, Like she would

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Speaker 2: never want to miss a text with you exactly.

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Speaker 1: Too bad if you get scammed. Margaret Billy, thank you

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Speaker 1: so much for explaining that to us. Thanks and thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for listening to this special Sunday bonus episode.

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Speaker 1: We will be back to regular programming tomorrow morning with

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Speaker 1: a Monday Deep Dive, but until then, enjoy the rest

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Speaker 1: of your weekend.

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Speaker 2: Bye.

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Speaker 1: Today's podcast was brought to you by pay id. We've

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