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Speaker 1: Already and this this is the.

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Speaker 2: Daily This is the Daily ohs oh, now it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: the eleventh of November. I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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Speaker 2: I'm Billy fitz Simon's.

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Speaker 1: Last week, Tesla shareholders approved what could become the largest

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Speaker 1: pay package in corporate history, a deal that could see

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Speaker 1: CEO Elon Musk earned close to a trillion dollars over

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Speaker 1: the next decade. The vote came after months of debate

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Speaker 1: about whether the world's richest person deserves an even bigger payday. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to break down what this deal actually means,

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Speaker 1: and how it works, and what Musk needs to achieve

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Speaker 1: to get this big check.

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Speaker 2: So, Sam, let's start with the basics. So this was

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Speaker 2: a pay package deal that was approved by Tesla shareholders. Now,

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Speaker 2: when we say Tesla shareholders, it's a public company. So

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Speaker 2: do we mean everyone who has invested in Tesla via

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Speaker 2: the public stock market?

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Speaker 1: Kind of yes. I mean when you buy Tesla's stock,

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Speaker 1: you become a shareholder and you own a tiny bit

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Speaker 1: of the company. The more shares you own, the more

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Speaker 1: voting power you have. But if anybody has bought shares

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Speaker 1: even in any company on the Australian stock market, you

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Speaker 1: get notices of these AGM meetings. Yes, and you can

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Speaker 1: technically go and cast a vote. You're entitled to a vote.

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Speaker 1: Now companies have super complicated constitutions and structures on whether

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Speaker 1: your vote will count. But yeah, essentially he got approval

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Speaker 1: from seventy five percent of Tesla's shareholders, which sounds impressive,

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Speaker 1: but there's a bit more to.

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Speaker 2: It that is huge. Seventy five percent of shareholders saying yes,

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Speaker 2: you should get this trillion dollar pay package deal. I

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Speaker 2: know it's not exactly how it sounds, which will get

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Speaker 2: into yah, but the result of that meeting was them

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Speaker 2: approving it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, one technicality to note is that Elon

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Speaker 1: Muster owns fifteen percent and he could vote for himself,

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Speaker 1: so he could look after that fifteen percent pretty easily.

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Speaker 1: But still he won another sixty percent and there were

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Speaker 1: some big groups and hedge funds and even some government

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Speaker 1: funds that did reject the plan, but overwhelmingly it was approved.

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Speaker 1: You know, there was this amazing scene at the physical

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Speaker 1: AGM in Texas. Musk took to the stage. In Austin,

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Speaker 1: there was chanting of his name, there was the Tesla

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Speaker 1: robot next to him, and he told shareholders, what we're

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Speaker 1: about to embark upon is not merely a new chapter

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Speaker 1: of the future of Tesla, but a whole new book.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, let's get to the actual structure of the deal.

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Speaker 2: I think this is what everyone is wondering. Yeah, what

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Speaker 2: does a trillion dollar pay package actually look like? Because

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Speaker 2: to be clear, it is not a trillion dollars in cash.

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Speaker 1: No, it is not a paycheck. So this is a

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Speaker 1: big misconception, even in the way that it's being reported.

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Speaker 1: It's easy to understand why you'd think that that's just

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Speaker 1: a deposit into his bank account. It's about him being

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Speaker 1: issued with shares, and the value of those shares would

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Speaker 1: be a trillion dollars.

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Speaker 2: I think that's always an interesting thing to look at,

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Speaker 2: because when we talk about billionaires, it's not actually cash

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Speaker 2: in their bank account. It is the value of the

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Speaker 2: equity or the shares that they hold in companies. Usually.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean for a lot of billionaires, especially the

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Speaker 1: really really billionaire billionaires, they do probably have billions in cash,

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Speaker 1: but a lot of their wealth. Like if you look

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Speaker 1: at somebody like Mark Zuckerberg, a lot of his wealth

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Speaker 1: is calculated based on what Meta is worth, yes, and

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Speaker 1: then what that means that his slice of the pie

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Speaker 1: is worth. But essentially, I mean this is what Musk

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Speaker 1: has done for many years, is he gets paid in

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Speaker 1: stock and then over time he sells portions of that

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Speaker 1: stock and that's when he really takes the cash off

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Speaker 1: the table.

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Speaker 2: And so this deal is him potentially being awarded more shares,

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Speaker 2: which the value of would be more than a trillion

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Speaker 2: dollars exactly.

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Speaker 1: So he would receive up to four hundred and twenty

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Speaker 1: three million Tesla shares over the next ten years if

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Speaker 1: he hits certain targets and there's one target for every year.

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Speaker 2: So this is interesting. So it's not the shareholder saying

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Speaker 2: he's a trillion dollars worth of shares in Tesla. It

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Speaker 2: is them saying, if you hit these certain targets. KPIs

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Speaker 2: if you will, that is when you will get this.

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Speaker 1: Deal, exactly, And they are aggressive targets about that. The

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Speaker 1: biggest target is growing Tesla's market cap and I'll explain

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Speaker 1: that in a minute, from its current valuation of one

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Speaker 1: point four trillion dollars to eight point five trillion dollars

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Speaker 1: over ten years.

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Speaker 2: So they're wanting to aggressively grow the company.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And so you said market cap before, what is that?

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Speaker 1: So that's the total value of the entire company as

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Speaker 1: determined by the stock market. So if you buy shares

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Speaker 1: in a company, and you buy a share for twenty

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Speaker 1: dollars and there are one hundred shares on offer to

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Speaker 1: the entire market, the market cap is two thousand dollars.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of just number of shares times share

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Speaker 1: price equals market cap. And so when we say that

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Speaker 1: Musk needs to grow Tesla to a market cap of

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Speaker 1: eight point five trillion dollars, we mean that in ten

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Speaker 1: years time, the value of all Tesla shares needs to

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Speaker 1: reach that level. That is massive. It would make Tesla

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Speaker 1: worth more than any company has ever been worth in history.

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Speaker 2: I was going to ask that. Yeah, so if there

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Speaker 2: any company that is worth that much.

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Speaker 1: Money, Well, Navidia is worth five trillion dollars and that

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Speaker 1: has made headlines over the last twelve months for setting

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Speaker 1: new records.

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Speaker 2: For anyone who hasn't heard of Navidia, it is the

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Speaker 2: largest company in the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So then make the AI chips that ironically go

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Speaker 1: into Tesla cars to make it smart as a car.

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Speaker 1: But Mask would need to make Tesla worth seventy percent

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Speaker 1: more than what Navidia is worth now over the next decade.

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Speaker 1: It's an unbelievable target. But he has done this before.

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Speaker 1: So back in twenty eighteen, shareholders approved a kind of

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Speaker 1: similar package, a bit scaled down obviously because it was still,

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Speaker 1: you know, a different time in Tesla's history, but they

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Speaker 1: required him to grow Tesla's value by ten over I

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Speaker 1: think it was a five or six year period, and

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Speaker 1: he did it ahead of schedule. So he knows he

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Speaker 1: can do this kind of thing. This is another stratosphere,

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Speaker 1: but he's got form, and.

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Speaker 2: So I imagine there are installments to this. It's not

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Speaker 2: just at the end of the ten years they'll decide

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Speaker 2: whether or not he gets it. Yeah, there would be

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Speaker 2: installments along the.

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Speaker 1: Way exactly, So it's evenly split over the next ten years.

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Speaker 1: For every time he hits a goal after twelve months,

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Speaker 1: he gets one percent, so he works his way up.

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Speaker 1: The goals are not just about that market cap number.

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Speaker 1: There are also goals about what Tesla is delivering. So,

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Speaker 1: for example, Tesla needs to deliver twenty million Tesla vehicles

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Speaker 1: for him to hit one of the hurdles. They need

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Speaker 1: to bring one million self driving robotaxis into commercial service.

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Speaker 1: They need to sell ten million subscriptions to their full

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Speaker 1: self driving features. So anyone with a Tesla over the

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Speaker 1: next ten years at some point going to release a

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Speaker 1: feature that says you can make your Tesla a self

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Speaker 1: driving car if it's obviously permitted by law where you are.

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Speaker 1: And then the craziest one, I think is that he

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Speaker 1: needs to sell one million humanoid robots. So these are

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Speaker 1: these new robot products from Tesla that look like a

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Speaker 1: kind of six foot human being I have seen and

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Speaker 1: can I don't know, clean your house and do things.

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Speaker 1: So really ambitious numbers there, and I guess if you

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Speaker 1: look at it from a Tesla shareholder perspective, if he

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Speaker 1: can do all of that and reach this unbelievable eight

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Speaker 1: trillion dollar valuation, then arguably he probably deserves that sort

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Speaker 1: of reward.

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Speaker 2: I mean, does anyone deserve a trillion dollar reward? I

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Speaker 2: don't know about that.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's been really interesting in reading about how the

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Speaker 1: world has reacted to this, because it's kind of hard

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Speaker 1: to understand what that even looks like.

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Speaker 2: I guess the argument from the shareholder's perspective would be

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Speaker 2: if this is achieved for Tesla, it's not only Elon

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Speaker 2: Musk who is benefiting. It is also the shares that

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Speaker 2: all of those shareholders have in the company.

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Speaker 1: Exactly.

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Speaker 2: But I think we need a pause because a trillion dollars.

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Speaker 2: I know that it can't just be me who is

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Speaker 2: so confused about what that actually looks like. I find

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Speaker 2: it hard to wrap my head around that number. How

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Speaker 2: do we put a trillion dollars into perspective?

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Speaker 1: So I want you to picture that you're in a

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Speaker 1: helicopter looking down at a football field.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful.

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Speaker 1: So a billion dollars is a thousand piles of one

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Speaker 1: million dollars.

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Speaker 2: That's a billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: That's a billion. Yeah. A trillion dollars is a thousand

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Speaker 1: piles of one billion dollars.

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Speaker 2: So a trillion is one thousand billions.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So if you earned one million dollars every day,

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Speaker 1: which is wild, it would take you nearly two thousand,

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Speaker 1: seven hundred and forty years to earn a trillion dollars.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So Musk's current net worth is about four hundred

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Speaker 1: and sixty billion, which makes him the world's richest person.

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Speaker 1: This pay package could potentially more than double that. And

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Speaker 1: to put it another way, the average Tesla worker earned

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Speaker 1: about fifty seven thousand US dollars in twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: So that's about eleven hundred dollars a week. If Musk

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Speaker 1: gets the full trillion dollar payout after ten years, that's

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Speaker 1: the equivalent of earning about one point nine billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in stock every week until then.

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Speaker 2: My mind, I'm still trying to fully comprehend it.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's some really interesting analysis from economists that I've

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Speaker 1: read that basically said, over the weekend, it's physically impossible

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Speaker 1: to make use of that much money. Yes, like, it doesn't.

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Speaker 1: The world is not set up for trillionaires to be

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Speaker 1: able to do anything useful with that money beyond well.

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Speaker 2: Except for maybe redistributing that wealth.

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Speaker 1: Well yes, okay, don't try that. If they were trying

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Speaker 1: to spend it all themselves, I mean they could, he

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Speaker 1: could buy other companies, and that's kind of one way

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Speaker 1: to do it. But in terms of you're right, like,

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Speaker 1: unless he gives out a little pay package to every

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Speaker 1: single person, and he'd still be left with hundreds of billions,

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Speaker 1: it's very, very hard to actually make use of that

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Speaker 1: money with things like property or possessions or you know,

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Speaker 1: even investments to some extent.

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Speaker 2: Now, I remember talking about Elon Musk a few months

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Speaker 2: ago when there was a legal battle over his pay

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Speaker 2: at Tesla.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, is that right? Yeah, there was this big legal

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Speaker 1: battle over a fifty six billion dollar package that was

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Speaker 1: put in front of shareholders and a Delaware judge. So

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Speaker 1: the company used to be registered in Delaware, and a

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Speaker 1: Delaware judge ruled that Tesla's board members were too close

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Speaker 1: personally too Musk, and there was a conflict of interest

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Speaker 1: and that the approval process for this package was flawed.

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Speaker 1: Tesla appealed that decision, but in the meantime, the company

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Speaker 1: actually moved its legal headquarters from Delaware to Texas, where

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Speaker 1: that sort of law isn't applicable. And this new package

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Speaker 1: essentially replaces that old one that got blocked, and there's

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Speaker 1: not much that the Texas legal system can do to

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Speaker 1: regulate it.

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Speaker 2: Right, So that is mostly done and dusted that legal bag.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is now approved, This is in

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Speaker 1: place now for the next decade.

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Speaker 2: Wow. Okay, And so what's been the response from analysts

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Speaker 2: and also corporate governance experts.

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Speaker 1: Well, the reason why corporate governance. The corporate governance is

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Speaker 1: basically the idea of how to govern a company. So

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Speaker 1: what's fair, what's not? What should a shareholder like you

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Speaker 1: and I if we had one hundred dollars worth of

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Speaker 1: Tesla stocks, what are our rights in this sort of

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Speaker 1: thing happening? And it's been pretty divided. So supporters argue,

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Speaker 1: as you said before, that if Musk can do all

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Speaker 1: of this, then everybody will benefit. Everyone will get a

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Speaker 1: lot richer if they own Tesla stocks, and he should

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Speaker 1: benefit as well. But then there are some critics and

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Speaker 1: some look at it from the point of view of

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Speaker 1: who owns money in the world, and money equals power,

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Speaker 1: And I mean one example is the New York State

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Speaker 1: Controller who collects taxes. They said, it's not pay for performance,

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Speaker 1: it's pay for unchecked power. So at that level of wealth,

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Speaker 1: there's nothing that could really stop this man.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's interesting. Can you explain that a little bit?

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Speaker 1: More so, what the authorities are saying there is that

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Speaker 1: this package, when you consider how much political power Musk has,

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Speaker 1: could present a real risk to the American people because

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Speaker 1: you know, nothing would stop him from creating his own

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Speaker 1: militia or you know, the level of wealth that we're

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Speaker 1: talking about here is not like other discussions we can

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Speaker 1: have about political candidates. For example, he could buy every

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Speaker 1: single ad on TV in the six months leading up

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Speaker 1: to an election and not notice that money leaving his account.

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Speaker 1: So it's come from the perspective of do we have

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Speaker 1: systems set up to actually kind of moderate what that

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Speaker 1: sort of wealth.

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Speaker 2: Could do I see, And what's the answer.

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Speaker 1: We don't, I mean, especially in America, and it's not

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Speaker 1: just Americans, I mean Pope Leo weighed in. He said

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Speaker 1: that Musk's compensation is a symptom of growing disparity between

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Speaker 1: working people and the wealthy. And against all of this, though,

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Speaker 1: is other critics who say that Tesla aren't going to

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Speaker 1: hit these goals. Tesla have had a really rough year

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Speaker 1: two years. There's declining sales figures because there's more competition

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Speaker 1: from Chinese ev manufacturers. But there's also a lot of

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Speaker 1: people who are not buying Tesla's now out of protest

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Speaker 1: for Musk's political involvement. He was part of DOGE, the

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Speaker 1: Department of Government Efficiency, and they kind of a lot

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Speaker 1: of Tesla consumers now see him as a kind of

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Speaker 1: Trump esque member of the American political scene that they

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Speaker 1: don't want anything to.

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Speaker 2: Do with such an interesting conversation. That with this pay

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Speaker 2: package approved, there is the context of all of these

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Speaker 2: issues going on in the background, and it will be

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Speaker 2: fascinating to see if this trillion dollar pay package does eventuate.

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Speaker 2: The world has certainly never seen anything like it before, no,

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Speaker 2: so it will be a very interesting one to keep

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Speaker 2: our eyes on.

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Speaker 1: And we've got ten years to watch it all go down.

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Speaker 2: I'll see you that well.

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Speaker 1: That will be a beautiful annual episode.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for explaining about Sam. Thanks and thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for listen looking to this episode of The

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Speaker 2: Daily Ods. We will be back this afternoon with your

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Speaker 2: evening headlines, but until then, have a great day. My

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Speaker 2: name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung

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Speaker 2: Kalkadin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges that

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Speaker 2: this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl

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Speaker 2: people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and torrest Rate

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Speaker 2: island and nations. We pay our respects to the first

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Speaker 2: peoples of these countries, both past and present,