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Speaker 1: This is gem Nation with jes.

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Speaker 2: So Will It's rain. The British Empire stole a lot

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Speaker 2: of stuff. Today those objects are housed in genteel institutions

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Speaker 2: across the UK, like, for example, the giant diamond in

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Speaker 2: front of the Queen's Crown. Our next guest is host

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Speaker 2: of the chart topping ABC podcast series and now a

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Speaker 2: new TV series on the not so polite history behind

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Speaker 2: these objects. The show is called Stuff the British Stole

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Speaker 2: Mark Fanell.

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Speaker 3: Hello, Hello, how are you very well?

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Speaker 2: I think people would be shocked to hear where a

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Speaker 2: lot of this stuff came from, and I think people

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Speaker 2: have it starting to have a different attitude about it now.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's true.

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Speaker 4: But what I've found is most interesting with these objects

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Speaker 4: is they're usually never that clear cut. So you know,

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Speaker 4: the show has a very spicy title, Stuff the British Sole,

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Speaker 4: but actually when you start to dig into where these

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Speaker 4: objects came from, who took them, how they were taken,

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Speaker 4: it's always messier than people think. And that diamond there,

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Speaker 4: I mean, it's the first episode that we start with.

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Speaker 4: You know, it was stolen multiple times before it ends

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Speaker 4: up in the UK, But it's when you dig into

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Speaker 4: the exact circumstances and then you know, spoiler alert, it's

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Speaker 4: taken from a child. It ends up in the court

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Speaker 4: of Victoria, but it's taken from a child in the Punjab.

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Speaker 4: And so when you look at that, you go, ew,

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Speaker 4: how do I actually feel about that? And I'm you know,

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Speaker 4: I'm very big on not actually offering an opinion. I

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Speaker 4: just kind of lay it out and then you as

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Speaker 4: an audience have to go, oh, this is messier than

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Speaker 4: I thought it was.

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Speaker 1: And so what the kid had the diamond? And Punjab

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Speaker 1: it's not like a it's not like a really rich area.

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Speaker 1: So how did she or he get that diamond?

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Speaker 4: Well, this was the kid was the Maharaja the Punjab,

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Speaker 4: so he you know, he was rich. You know the

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Speaker 4: area large was was perhaps not, but he definitely was rich.

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Speaker 4: And so they invade and they stand around him and

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Speaker 4: they say, you know, sign it.

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Speaker 3: Over to us, and he surrenders it and he's just

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Speaker 3: a little kid. What else is he going to do exactly?

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Speaker 4: And so you know, technically he signs it over, so

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Speaker 4: technically it's it's legal, But then you have to go, okay, well,

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Speaker 4: is it really legal if somebody gives you.

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Speaker 3: Some thing while you're standing around them with guns. And

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Speaker 3: that's where things get a bit.

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Speaker 2: Mess like Christmas Day at your house.

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Speaker 1: That's robbery.

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Speaker 2: But so, what are some of the other things I

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Speaker 2: know that I've heard the history of the Is it

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Speaker 2: the Elgin Marbles?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, the Elgin Marbles? Marbles?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? No.

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Speaker 3: So we actually did a whole episode of the podcast about.

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Speaker 4: This and it's you know, that's another one of those

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Speaker 4: situations where it's not in the TV series but people

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Speaker 4: can go listen to the podcast now, which is that

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Speaker 4: you know, they the British did ask for permission to

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Speaker 4: take those marbles, but they didn't ask missions from the Greeks.

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Speaker 4: They asked missions from the other empire. That was a

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Speaker 4: charre degrease at the times. That's how they argue that.

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Speaker 3: It was kind of okay.

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Speaker 2: And when we say marbles, they're not like little marbles

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Speaker 2: at school. There's incredible extraordinary freezes, aren't they on walls

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Speaker 2: and things that the British museums filled with.

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Speaker 4: It, massive, massive, massive, It was you know, there was

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Speaker 4: the roof and the columns of this incredible and it's

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Speaker 4: this beautiful kind of pink marble that it's breathtaking, absolutely

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Speaker 4: breathtaking to look at, and they.

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Speaker 3: You know, they would used explosives to pull it.

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Speaker 4: Down off and the enormous amount of damage to get

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Speaker 4: it down so they could ship it.

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Speaker 3: And actually when they.

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Speaker 4: Shipped it from Greece over to the UK, there was

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Speaker 4: a shipwreck, so sang to the bottom of the ocean

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Speaker 4: and then they had to get divers to dig it

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Speaker 4: up again to bring it over.

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Speaker 3: And so when you get into those twists and turns,

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Speaker 3: it's wild, absolutely wild.

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Speaker 2: Do you think people are feeling differently about this stuff now?

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Speaker 2: It used to be no that belongs to the British Empire,

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Speaker 2: but now people are starting to feel a bit uncomfortable

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Speaker 2: with it.

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Speaker 3: It's a good question. I never quite know how to

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Speaker 3: predict how people will react.

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Speaker 4: So even you know, with this series, as it's come

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Speaker 4: out and we've started having ads on TV, people have

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Speaker 4: been like, oh, but they also kind of saved it

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Speaker 4: as well. And the funny thing is, in some cases.

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Speaker 3: You could argue that's true.

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Speaker 4: So one of the objects that we have, and it's

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Speaker 4: not just about stuff that ends up in the British isles,

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Speaker 4: it's also about the British empiret large there's a lot

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Speaker 4: of objects we do on the series that actually end

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Speaker 4: up in Australia, and one of those objects, you know,

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Speaker 4: it lives in Canberra and the Australian War Memorial. And

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Speaker 4: the argument was that hey, we're saving it, and that

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Speaker 4: may actually be true. But now fast forward to twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty two and you've got people back in this case

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Speaker 4: from Palestine where it was taken, who were like, actually,

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Speaker 4: we'd kind of like it back now, and it's been

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Speaker 4: here since the nineteen forties, so what do we do?

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Speaker 4: And I think those are really important questions that you know,

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Speaker 4: you think they're kind of removed from people's lives, but

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Speaker 4: it's about people's feelings.

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Speaker 3: You talk to any Greek.

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Speaker 4: Person about the path and on marbles and the feeling

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Speaker 4: is very strong. You talk to Indians about that diamond,

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Speaker 4: it's very strong. The object is part of it, but

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Speaker 4: it's how we feel about it.

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Speaker 3: It's really important.

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Speaker 1: Because you look at the Taliban, they were just blowing

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Speaker 1: everything up, all that iconography, so all that good stuff

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Speaker 1: that they had that was around, and obviously you couldn't

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Speaker 1: take those giant statues that they blew up, but you

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Speaker 1: know there is rather they survived so you would rather

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Speaker 1: they'd still be around totally.

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Speaker 4: Interestingly, that diamond that's in the very first episode, multiple

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Speaker 4: countries claim it. One of those countries is India, another

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Speaker 4: one is Pakistan, but also the Taliban, because you know

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Speaker 4: it's been a period of its history in Afghanistan. The

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Speaker 4: Taliban have also asked.

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Speaker 3: For it back too. So you get this issue.

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Speaker 4: Because these objects move around through history, suddenly multiple different

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Speaker 4: countries can make claims.

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Speaker 1: On Wow, imagine that head that phone call. It's the

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Speaker 1: telephon Hello, I want my diamond back. We've got to

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Speaker 1: We've got to India on the line, and we've got

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Speaker 1: Pakistan as well.

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Speaker 3: This is a group zoom call.

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Speaker 1: It's a zoom chat. There you go, Pakistan's left the meeting.

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Speaker 2: Well, I can't wait to see this.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, this is great Mark stuffed the British style. It

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Speaker 1: starts tonight eight o'clock on ABC and abc I view

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Speaker 1: Mark Fanell.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for joining us. The pleasures entirely mind. Thank

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Speaker 3: you so much having me