1 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 2 00:00:06,960 --> 00:00:09,319 Speaker 1: used by the world's most successful people to get so 3 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:10,600 Speaker 1: much out of their day. 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,119 Speaker 2: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imber. 5 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:18,200 Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,800 Speaker 1: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. 7 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:27,240 Speaker 1: Before I get into today's show, I wanted to do 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,800 Speaker 1: a little shout out to another podcast that I have 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,560 Speaker 1: recently launched called How to Date. 10 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:36,760 Speaker 2: So this is a show. 11 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 1: Where with my closest girlfriend Monique, we speak to lots 12 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: of experts all around the world to work out how 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:50,479 Speaker 1: to master the messy, complex, bizarre world of dating when 14 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: you did not think that you'd be dating again in 15 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: your life. And on this week's show, if you are 16 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: listening to this How I Work episode on Thursday when 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: it comes out, we release our interview episodes of How 18 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 1: to Date on Fridays, and this week we talked to 19 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:10,679 Speaker 1: Georgie Wolf, who is a professional escort, about. 20 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:12,440 Speaker 2: Her tips for dating. 21 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,640 Speaker 1: So if you haven't already checked it out, just search 22 00:01:15,720 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: for How to Date wherever you listen to your podcasts 23 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 1: now on today's show, Today's show is a little bit different. 24 00:01:24,120 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: It's actually an interview that I did for a podcast 25 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,160 Speaker 1: called Meta with Peter Wells, and Meta is a podcast 26 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:37,160 Speaker 1: all about podcasts, hence the name Meta. So Peter invited 27 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:39,160 Speaker 1: me to be on the show to talk all about 28 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 1: How I Work. So I thought that listeners you would 29 00:01:43,120 --> 00:01:47,039 Speaker 1: enjoy this chat that I had with Peter. I talk 30 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: all about why and how I started How I Work 31 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 1: over two years ago now, and we geek out on 32 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: lots of productivity tricks and nacs and software and things 33 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: like that. So I hope you enjoy this episode. And 34 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 1: on that note, let's head to myself and Peter. 35 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 3: This has Meta, a podcast about podcasts. Today's guest is 36 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 3: Amantha Imbert, who is the host of the number one 37 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 3: productivity podcast in the store at the moment, How I Work. 38 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 3: Let's talk about your show. I would imagine I find 39 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 3: I am completely struggling myself and have been more this 40 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 3: year in kind of getting things done and staying on 41 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 3: top of where I'm supposed to be and also kind 42 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,560 Speaker 3: of work life balance. Do you think that this is 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 3: one of the reasons why your show is kind of 44 00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:36,040 Speaker 3: taking off as it is. 45 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's definitely. 46 00:02:41,720 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: I mean it's kind of it's grown since its inception, 47 00:02:44,840 --> 00:02:47,679 Speaker 1: So it's been running now for nearly two and a 48 00:02:47,720 --> 00:02:52,120 Speaker 1: half years, and I think that definitely, with the shift 49 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: to working from home, people have been thrown into this 50 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,959 Speaker 1: environment where they've had to reset their habits and their 51 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:03,520 Speaker 1: routines and the way they approach their work. So I 52 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: know that the podcast has definitely grown because of that, 53 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: but I feel like it's been like steady growth from 54 00:03:09,360 --> 00:03:10,960 Speaker 1: when I launched a couple of years ago. 55 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:13,560 Speaker 3: No, that makes total sense to me, because it's so 56 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 3: often when I'm doing these interviews, it gets pitched. The 57 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 3: shows I'm talking about get pitched to me as like 58 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 3: this overnight success, and then I look back and there's 59 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,720 Speaker 3: a good three or four years of groundwork that has 60 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:26,120 Speaker 3: gone into that overnight success. 61 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:31,240 Speaker 1: So not an overnight success, I wish. 62 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 3: So tell me about the journey then, So, okay, you 63 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:36,640 Speaker 3: started a couple of years ago. What were the first 64 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 3: couple of episodes, like do you still cring? Oh? Sorry, 65 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:40,720 Speaker 3: do you cringe if you listen to them now? 66 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: Or oh speeds so long since I've listened to them. 67 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: But you know what, I don't think I would cringe 68 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 1: simply because the very first interview I did is still 69 00:03:50,560 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 1: one of my favorites. 70 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: So in terms of your question around, well, how did. 71 00:03:55,240 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: It come about? So I've been wanting to start a 72 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 1: podcast for years. I've been taught talking about starting a 73 00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: podcast for years, and it probably took years for me 74 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,280 Speaker 1: to firstly go, Okay, I just need to do it, 75 00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 1: and secondly, yeah, this is a topic that I could 76 00:04:10,720 --> 00:04:13,560 Speaker 1: get really excited about for a long long time. 77 00:04:14,120 --> 00:04:16,480 Speaker 2: So that kind of all came together. 78 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,120 Speaker 1: And the other thing that proved really good in terms 79 00:04:20,160 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 1: of timing is that I was attending my first TED 80 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 1: conference in Vancouver, so TED Proper if you like, and 81 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:31,480 Speaker 1: that proved to be a really great way to secure 82 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: some initial guests that were I guess quite high profile 83 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: and probably guessed that I couldn't have got straight off 84 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:42,159 Speaker 1: the bat had it not been for the fact that 85 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 1: I was able to meet them in person and have 86 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 1: a chat to them about the podcast. So the very 87 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,520 Speaker 1: first interview I did was with one of one of 88 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,480 Speaker 1: my academic heroes, Adam Grant, who is an organizational psychologist 89 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:56,479 Speaker 1: and the host of work Life and a professor at Wharton. 90 00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 2: And so when I look back at my. 91 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,120 Speaker 1: Early interviews, gosh, it's kind of dependent on the guests 92 00:05:03,279 --> 00:05:05,680 Speaker 1: as to whether I cringe or not, because I love 93 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 1: having Adam on the show. 94 00:05:06,839 --> 00:05:09,640 Speaker 3: And I'm not saying you should. I was just wondering. 95 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 3: I showed episodes are recorded three weeks ago. 96 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:15,920 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I. 97 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:18,240 Speaker 1: Think you know, when you're just listening back to your 98 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: voice every week, several times a week, you just become desensitized. 99 00:05:22,160 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 1: So the kind of the cringe worthy factor is I 100 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: think I'm just desensitized. 101 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:28,839 Speaker 2: To it, is what I was saying. 102 00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think I'm there yet, but that's why 103 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:33,840 Speaker 3: I'm doing a daily show to really get it out 104 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:37,040 Speaker 3: of my systo quickly so I can see. Adam Grant 105 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,120 Speaker 3: was one of your first guests. Can you remember any 106 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:39,919 Speaker 3: of his advice? 107 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: A few that have stuck with me. 108 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,799 Speaker 1: One is the power of batching meetings, so doing meetings 109 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 1: back to back. So this is something that Adam does 110 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:52,160 Speaker 1: in his own life. And there was some interesting research 111 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: that showed that if you've got a meeting coming up 112 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:58,040 Speaker 1: in your diary, like in the next hour or two, 113 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:01,760 Speaker 1: you'll actually be twenty two percent less productive. 114 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: And I heard that and I'm like, that. 115 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,159 Speaker 1: Totally makes sense because there's not enough time to get 116 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: into flow. You're kind of, you know, fluffing around doing 117 00:06:12,080 --> 00:06:15,599 Speaker 1: little bits and pieces, making sure that you don't miss 118 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: the start time of the next meeting. And so definitely 119 00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: batching meetings was something that I have tried to do since. 120 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 4: Then. 121 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,080 Speaker 1: Something else I got, and I think this was from 122 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 1: my interview with Adam, although I've heard it a handful 123 00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:31,320 Speaker 1: of times now, is to finish the day on a 124 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: downhill slope. So this is where you finish basically mid tasks. 125 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:40,640 Speaker 1: So let's just say, you know, we both do writing 126 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: with you know, some of the various hats that we 127 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:47,679 Speaker 1: both rare, and so rather than say finishing a draft 128 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 1: of an article, you would actually finish mid sentence or 129 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,080 Speaker 1: mid paragraph, which means that when you start work the 130 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,280 Speaker 1: next day, it's a lot easier to just get into 131 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: the swing of things and not procrastinate because you've got 132 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:02,960 Speaker 1: an easy start because essentially you've parked on a downhill slope. 133 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,440 Speaker 2: So there are a couple of things that have stuck 134 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: with me that's. 135 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: Really really fascinating, especially like the batch meeting idea, because yeah, 136 00:07:12,640 --> 00:07:17,560 Speaker 3: I absolutely find that in myself, I can spend an 137 00:07:17,760 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 3: entire day pondering the question I'm about to ask someone 138 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 3: like you, Whereas so sometimes I wish I could just, 139 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 3: you know, wake just before the episode is ready to 140 00:07:26,840 --> 00:07:27,440 Speaker 3: be recorded. 141 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, if only. 142 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:35,160 Speaker 3: But what are some of those I mean, the term 143 00:07:35,280 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 3: life hack is so overused, But what are some of 144 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 3: those other kind of tips that have stayed with you 145 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 3: from some of you guests? 146 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:44,040 Speaker 2: Sure? 147 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 1: So I got some really interesting ones from this guy 148 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: called Brian Scootemore, who's the co founder and CEO of 149 00:07:52,360 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 1: one eight hundred Got Junk, amongst other companies. So it's 150 00:07:55,680 --> 00:07:59,080 Speaker 1: about like a half billion dollar set of companies that 151 00:07:59,120 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: he runs. Something that he does is very much about 152 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:08,120 Speaker 1: if he's on holiday or on a break, he's on 153 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 1: a break from work and he's not going to dip 154 00:08:11,080 --> 00:08:13,960 Speaker 1: into his email or social media or anything like that, 155 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:19,160 Speaker 1: and to actually do that as opposed to being sucked in, 156 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: because we all know how easy it is to be 157 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:23,520 Speaker 1: sucked in by those technologies and digital distractions. 158 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 2: He gets his assistant to change his. 159 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: Password for his email and video accounts, so he literally 160 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:31,320 Speaker 1: cannot get in. 161 00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 2: He can't even break in, and that stuck with me. 162 00:08:35,400 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: I personally love that something else that I mean, so gosh, 163 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:42,679 Speaker 1: so many things stick with me. Someone that I was 164 00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:47,320 Speaker 1: so excited to interview was Cal Newport, who is a 165 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 1: computer science professor at Georgetown and also the author of 166 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,079 Speaker 1: several best selling books, including Deep Work, which has had 167 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: a profound impact on. 168 00:08:55,679 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 2: How I work. 169 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,840 Speaker 1: And Cal talked about how he would he has different 170 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: types of deep work that he does. So, for example, 171 00:09:03,480 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: there's writing work, there's solving computer science problems kind of work, 172 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: as a couple of examples, And he'll have different physical environments. 173 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: That he will associate with that deep work. 174 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,360 Speaker 1: So for example, he in his home study, he got 175 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:23,360 Speaker 1: this desk custom made that's designed to look like the 176 00:09:23,400 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 1: desks that he had when he was a student at university, 177 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: and that's where he does his writing deep work. Whereas 178 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,319 Speaker 1: if he's trying to yeah, if he's trying to work 179 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,439 Speaker 1: through let's say a computer science problem or theorem, I 180 00:09:35,480 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 1: don't know if I've used the right language there, he 181 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: will walk. So he will go for a waltz of 182 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: around his campus or between his home and his campus. 183 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,680 Speaker 1: And I thought that's really interesting thinking about the different 184 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 1: categories of deep focused work that you have to do 185 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,920 Speaker 1: and then linking that to a particular physical environment. And 186 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,080 Speaker 1: that makes sense psychologically because then you get into that 187 00:09:56,120 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: flow state more quickly because your associations to that physical 188 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:01,920 Speaker 1: environment and that kind of work. 189 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, I've found that when this whole pandemic twenty 190 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 3: twenty thing happened, my desk was about five centimeters from 191 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 3: the end of my bed, and it was, funnily enough, 192 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 3: not the most you know, productive work environment that I 193 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 3: could have. I've been able to thankfully move things around 194 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,000 Speaker 3: now and now I've got a kind of dedicated spot 195 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,200 Speaker 3: just to the desk, and I really try to make 196 00:10:31,280 --> 00:10:34,080 Speaker 3: a point of when I finally get to the end 197 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 3: of the day of getting up from the desk and 198 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 3: not touching it again, because you know, I have far 199 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 3: too many distractions. I'm on Twitter and Slack and everything 200 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 3: else all the time, and so I find that like 201 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 3: the only way I can ever relax is if I 202 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:53,920 Speaker 3: stand up and put the giant computer away and walk 203 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 3: over to the couch. And yeah, that It's funny how 204 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 3: how these little so much of of your environment will 205 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 3: will play into the way you behave. This is terrible. 206 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,760 Speaker 3: I'm sitting here talking to you about productivity and an 207 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 3: app is yelling at me in the background, and I 208 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:12,560 Speaker 3: have to find out which ones I can silence it. 209 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 3: But yeah, that is that is such the world we 210 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 3: live in now. Like, what does your approach say to 211 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 3: notifications on your phone? Do you do you have any 212 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:24,840 Speaker 3: notifications on the phone? 213 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:28,200 Speaker 2: A really more? 214 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: I how I control the notifications is I use do 215 00:11:32,480 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: not disturb mode. So sometimes I find after work notifications 216 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: can be useful, or when I'm doing shallow work, let's say, 217 00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:45,080 Speaker 1: so work that is non cognitively demanding, I don't mind 218 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 1: being interrupted by the phone ringing or a text message 219 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,439 Speaker 1: coming through. So more what I will do, and I 220 00:11:52,480 --> 00:11:56,240 Speaker 1: mostly tend to control it from my Apple Watch actually 221 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:59,160 Speaker 1: is just using do not disturb mode, So I find 222 00:11:59,160 --> 00:12:02,240 Speaker 1: that that is simpler as opposed to manually going through 223 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,599 Speaker 1: and turning off notifications for everything. So there might be 224 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:07,480 Speaker 1: three or four apps that I do have notifications switched 225 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,600 Speaker 1: on from. But I kind of like having a master control, 226 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,840 Speaker 1: which is what I think about do not disturb mode 227 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: on my Apple Watch as being so typically I mean 228 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: do not disturb mode until I've done a couple of 229 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 1: deep work sprints, so that might be two lots of 230 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:23,200 Speaker 1: sixty to ninety minutes sprints in the morning kind of 231 00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:26,560 Speaker 1: like really knocking over the most important stuff that I 232 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 1: need to get done that day. And then I go 233 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 1: a little bit easier on myself and I let notifications 234 00:12:32,640 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: come in if I'm doing something where I won't interrupt, 235 00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: like a flow state if I'm being interrupted. 236 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:42,320 Speaker 3: Did you find the Apple Watch was one of those 237 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 3: moments though, where you suddenly needed to decide what was 238 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 3: allowed to beep? I found for me, especially like there's 239 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 3: one thing about a phone kind of beeping in your 240 00:12:53,280 --> 00:12:55,520 Speaker 3: pocket that you can ignore, but when your wrist is 241 00:12:55,520 --> 00:13:00,000 Speaker 3: actually lighting up, that really shows just how many applications 242 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 3: out there are begging for our attention at any time. 243 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 1: Oh, I know, yeah, if yeah, I'm very strict on 244 00:13:08,880 --> 00:13:11,840 Speaker 1: what I let into the Apple Watch because otherwise I 245 00:13:11,920 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: find it just drives me nuts. And I've had an 246 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: Apple Watch for so long, Like I don't even remember 247 00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 1: what it's like to just have your phone and you know, 248 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,679 Speaker 1: either have that on silence or ringing as the way 249 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 1: that you control what interrupts you. 250 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:29,760 Speaker 2: Because I've had the watch for so long. 251 00:13:29,559 --> 00:13:33,520 Speaker 1: And like the probably the things that I use most 252 00:13:33,520 --> 00:13:36,920 Speaker 1: frequently on the watch, aside from obviously telling the time, 253 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: is that I use the pedometer to see how many 254 00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:44,400 Speaker 1: steps I've done, so I may listly use it as 255 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,600 Speaker 1: a fitness app, and I also use the timer, and 256 00:13:46,640 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: I actually use the time of function. 257 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: And I know that I could use the time of 258 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:52,800 Speaker 2: function on the iPhone. 259 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 1: But I've, i guess, turned it into a bit of 260 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: a habit where if I've got a task to do, 261 00:13:58,160 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 1: and I know that I could get lost in the 262 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,680 Speaker 1: time ask, but I also know that I've got something 263 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: coming up, and let's say thirty minutes or sixty minutes, 264 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: quite often I'll set the timer just so I don't 265 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,440 Speaker 1: lose myself and then be late for the thing that 266 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: I've got coming up. So I find that quite a 267 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,200 Speaker 1: useful hack that I think the watch is really handy for. 268 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 3: One of the issues I've found when I've chatted to friends, 269 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,200 Speaker 3: We're all in this moment of trying to figure out 270 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 3: how to get things done in this brand new environment 271 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: at home, and a bunch of my friends have made 272 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 3: the joke that they spend so much time looking and 273 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 3: evaluating productivity apps that they just don't have time to 274 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:43,480 Speaker 3: get things done. So, are there are there one or 275 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:45,760 Speaker 3: two apps out there that you just absolutely love to death? 276 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 3: That you could. 277 00:14:46,160 --> 00:14:50,160 Speaker 4: Recommend one hundred percent there are and yes I have 278 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,360 Speaker 4: fallen down that trap myself, but luckily guests on the show, 279 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 4: I've got no shortage of software our. 280 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:02,960 Speaker 2: Recommendation, so look my go to but for email. 281 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: In terms of email clients, I love Superhuman. I imagine 282 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:09,280 Speaker 1: that might be one that you've come across. 283 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,040 Speaker 2: There's a huge waiting list, but it's great. 284 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it taught me through because I've seen I 285 00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:17,760 Speaker 3: saw the waiting list and then I saw a couple 286 00:15:17,800 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: of stories about it being a little bit I don't know, 287 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:24,000 Speaker 3: it felt like a bit of a privacy intrusion to 288 00:15:24,080 --> 00:15:27,280 Speaker 3: the people who are emailing you, and so I never 289 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 3: kind of followed up on that. So why do you 290 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:29,840 Speaker 3: love Superhuman? 291 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: I love They say that it's the fastest email experience, 292 00:15:34,160 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: and it is. 293 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: It's super fast. 294 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: I think once you know your way around all the shortcuts, 295 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: I find that I can be really quick with email. 296 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: And it's got all the functionality like reminding me if 297 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: someone hasn't replied, letting me know if someone's actually received 298 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,760 Speaker 1: the email obviously, like having canned responses and things like that, 299 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 1: and just the interface is really clean. 300 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 2: So I've never been a fan. 301 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: Of Gmail because there's just too much going on, even 302 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:04,800 Speaker 1: with the different views and settings that you can do. 303 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: I used to be crazy about Newton until they closed down, 304 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 1: but then they reopened and I found that Superhuman is 305 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 1: a really similar user interface to Newton. Sorry if I'm 306 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 1: just like getting too geek you, I'm just like a 307 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:19,240 Speaker 1: lot of really there. 308 00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,600 Speaker 3: But anyway, that these apps. 309 00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:24,680 Speaker 2: And now what. 310 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: And I also like Superhuman because I can just close 311 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:29,200 Speaker 1: it down. 312 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:30,360 Speaker 2: It's not in my browser. 313 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 1: Obviously I can close down Gmail, but I just like 314 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: the idea of closing down software completely to be out 315 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 1: of email. 316 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,440 Speaker 2: So I do love Superhuman. 317 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: I recently came across another email client called Tempo, which 318 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: actually helps you batch email. 319 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 2: So the default setting on Tempo. 320 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,760 Speaker 1: I haven't used it yet because I am quite a 321 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:52,560 Speaker 1: Superhuman nut. The default setting is that it lets you 322 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: check email twice a day and that's it, which I 323 00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:01,200 Speaker 1: think is a really brave move because email programs are 324 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 1: trying to get you using it as often as possible. 325 00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:04,919 Speaker 2: I mean, that's part of the model. 326 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 1: So I'm kind of I'm keen to experiment with Tempo, 327 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:10,760 Speaker 1: maybe if I can remove myself from Superhuman. 328 00:17:10,840 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 2: So that's superhuman for calendar. 329 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:17,960 Speaker 3: Actually, I'll stop you there because I find that really fascinated. 330 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:20,200 Speaker 3: I've got a made of mine who only checks email 331 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:22,960 Speaker 3: I think two times a day or one time a day, 332 00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:26,320 Speaker 3: and you know, look, he's worth a lot more than 333 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:28,440 Speaker 3: I am. And I think that you know, that's a 334 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 3: status thing. You only get to very good rules about 335 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,840 Speaker 3: email when you're kind of the boss. Like no one 336 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:36,240 Speaker 3: else gets away with that kind of crap. 337 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:39,880 Speaker 2: I don't know. I beg to differ certainly. 338 00:17:40,560 --> 00:17:44,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, at Inventium, if you email someone on the team, 339 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:47,560 Speaker 1: chances there's probably a fifty percent chance that if you 340 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:51,040 Speaker 1: email them in the morning, because we all test our chronotype, 341 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: so most of us are larkish or do our best 342 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:56,840 Speaker 1: work in the morning, and therefore it means that most 343 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 1: of us, if we're not delivering work to a client 344 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 1: or running a work shop or a keynote or something 345 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: like that, we're probably in deep work mode. And so 346 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: therefore we've probably got an out of office auto responder 347 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:09,640 Speaker 1: on that says, don't expect an email from me because 348 00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 1: I'm doing deep work. Yes, yes, So that's that's our 349 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,159 Speaker 1: team and it's something that we put in well, we 350 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:19,719 Speaker 1: recommend that clients do it in the training programs that 351 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 1: we run, and I think a lot of them do 352 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,160 Speaker 1: take our advice. 353 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: So I don't know. 354 00:18:24,800 --> 00:18:26,919 Speaker 1: I reckon it's possible, even if you're not the boss, 355 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,119 Speaker 1: you can steal a bat emails. I mean, you know, 356 00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,480 Speaker 1: people have this false sense of idea of what constitutes 357 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: urgent or what an emergency is like if someone is 358 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,480 Speaker 1: not going to die, I don't think it's an emergency. 359 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. And what about Slack? I mean, because do you 360 00:18:45,920 --> 00:18:46,960 Speaker 3: use slack in your. 361 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:51,479 Speaker 2: Own No, we've tried slack. We don't use slack. 362 00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: I know that some people in the team will use 363 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,640 Speaker 1: just the Google chat function because everyone else uses. 364 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 2: I think I'm the only one that us a superhuman. 365 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:03,320 Speaker 2: So we tried Slack. 366 00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: We didn't find that it really added much to the 367 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: way that we work. Something I heard interestingly. I had 368 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:11,240 Speaker 1: a guest on the show from GitLab whose name was 369 00:19:11,359 --> 00:19:14,200 Speaker 1: Darren Murf and he's the head of remote at git Lab. 370 00:19:14,320 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 1: It was one of my favorite interviews from this year, 371 00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: and he talked about that at git lab they use Slack, 372 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,640 Speaker 1: but it's only for social chit chat. So it's almost 373 00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,640 Speaker 1: the water cooler of git Lab because they're a remote 374 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 1: first company, and I thought that's really interesting, just having 375 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: Slack for social interactions. So interestingly, we have a whatts 376 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,640 Speaker 1: App group at Inventium, so we're all on this WhatsApp group, 377 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:42,240 Speaker 1: which I guess is kind of like a Slack without channels, 378 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,200 Speaker 1: and that's where we post our water cooler chit chat, 379 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: particularly now that we've been working remote since March. 380 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,240 Speaker 2: So yeah, so I. 381 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:54,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, we couldn't get Slacked to stick at Inventium. 382 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, it just feels like, you know, it's one of 383 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 3: those funny things of like we all we can all 384 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 3: see that email is and we all get too much 385 00:20:01,359 --> 00:20:03,600 Speaker 3: email and it's too hard to get through the day. 386 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:06,560 Speaker 3: And I just love that. Silicon Valley's response to that was, 387 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,080 Speaker 3: let's make something that's always on and always yelling at you, 388 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:13,720 Speaker 3: and people will just naturally assume that you're always in 389 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:17,080 Speaker 3: front of it and will always respond. 390 00:20:17,119 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: And I just remembered it would be remiss of me 391 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: not to mention Hey dot com in terms of email, 392 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:26,080 Speaker 1: because for my personal email, I have now switched over 393 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,439 Speaker 1: to Hay dot com and I was quite excited to 394 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,760 Speaker 1: get the email account amount at Hey dot com and 395 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 1: feel free to email me there. Although I might block 396 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: you so Hay dot Com. I love it. It's from 397 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 1: the creators of base camp, and those guys are just amazing. 398 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:44,560 Speaker 2: I'm sure you're a fan as well. 399 00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: And it rethinks the workflow of email, which I'm really loving. 400 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: And for the first time ever, my personal email inbox 401 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:55,879 Speaker 1: is so clean. 402 00:20:56,720 --> 00:20:59,520 Speaker 3: Oh that sounds sounds like a dream. I'm going to 403 00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,480 Speaker 3: have to try all of these again. But I'm just 404 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 3: so worried about investing so much time into these apps 405 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,320 Speaker 3: that are supposed to make me more productive. Like I 406 00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,640 Speaker 3: feel like maybe it's just worth trying to be productive 407 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:11,760 Speaker 3: with the stuff I already know. 408 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:14,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, And look, I think that there's something to that, 409 00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,399 Speaker 1: because I like, if I've got a tech entrepreneur on 410 00:21:18,440 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: the show, I'll always ask for software and hardware recommendations, 411 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,239 Speaker 1: and every now and then I'll come across someone who's like, 412 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: I just don't invest time in that, you know, I 413 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,919 Speaker 1: just do the basics, which I find quite refreshing. But 414 00:21:32,960 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 1: I think you just need to find good go to 415 00:21:35,320 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: people who you trust so that you're not demoing countless 416 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: pieces of software and hardware, but just kind of find 417 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 1: you trusted people and just go Okay, if they think 418 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: it's good. I reckon, I'll invest the time in changing 419 00:21:49,840 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: my workflow or changing my habits around this. 420 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:54,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. 421 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,480 Speaker 1: I like, I don't have heaps of software that I recommend, 422 00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 1: but the software that I use I love and I 423 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,320 Speaker 1: double down on and my workflow changes positively as a result. 424 00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 3: Fantastic. Well you have, so we've covered email quite deeply. 425 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:13,280 Speaker 3: Now can you just give me your favorites to do 426 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 3: list app and your favorite calendar or the favorite way 427 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 3: to work a calendar. 428 00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:26,160 Speaker 2: Yeah. So my favorite calendar software is Woven, And funnily enough, 429 00:22:26,520 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 2: I got. 430 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 1: The Superhuman and the Woven recommendations from Tim Kendall, who 431 00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 1: is on my show How I Work I want to 432 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,760 Speaker 1: say a year and a half ago something like that. 433 00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:43,359 Speaker 1: And interestingly, he's in the social Dilemma. So he used 434 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,640 Speaker 1: to be the president of Pinterest and then he's now 435 00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: CEO of Moment, which is an app that helps you 436 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:57,439 Speaker 1: have healthier phone habits, and Woven uses artificial intelligence to 437 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,080 Speaker 1: help make scheduling easier. I think the feature that I 438 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 1: like best in Woven is that you can have templates 439 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:09,640 Speaker 1: for events that you're commonly scheduling. So, for example, podcast 440 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:12,080 Speaker 1: interviews is something that I would commonly schedule and there 441 00:23:12,119 --> 00:23:14,879 Speaker 1: are certain things that need to be in the invite, 442 00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,240 Speaker 1: and so I've got a template for that, and it 443 00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,600 Speaker 1: just makes it a whole lot easier to schedule guests 444 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 1: rather than fiddling around with things. And sure I could 445 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: use calendar or something like that. And there are a 446 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:30,920 Speaker 1: few other meetings like that, you know, where there might 447 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,440 Speaker 1: be six or seven people that attend that are outside 448 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 1: of Inventium, So I don't have a group that I 449 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,480 Speaker 1: could send that to if you like. And yeah, just 450 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:41,560 Speaker 1: I really like that particular feature of Woven, So I 451 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: do like that. In terms of to do list software, 452 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 1: I was a wonder List fan until that got bought, 453 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,400 Speaker 1: and so now I use things because I'm a Mac 454 00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:58,760 Speaker 1: user and I like the different levels of kind of projects, 455 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 1: tasks and sub tasks and checklists. I feel like it's 456 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,399 Speaker 1: just it works for me in terms of how I 457 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 1: think about these things. And I also use it to 458 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,879 Speaker 1: store lists as well as being a to do list software. 459 00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:15,119 Speaker 1: So for example, you know books that I want to read, 460 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: rather than having say a page in ever note, I 461 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:20,800 Speaker 1: would have a list in things that's books to read 462 00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,360 Speaker 1: or TV shows to check out, or podcasts to check out. 463 00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,879 Speaker 1: So I'll have my to do list for deep and 464 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,400 Speaker 1: shallow work tasks and a few kind of project lists, 465 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,760 Speaker 1: and then I'll have list lists of things that I'm 466 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: going to do one day. 467 00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. I found that's the only way I kind of 468 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,000 Speaker 3: get things done these days, is the second thought pops 469 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,879 Speaker 3: into my head. I have to put it in whatever 470 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 3: to do list app I'm using, or I know that 471 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,159 Speaker 3: like three weeks from now, I'll remember that, you know, 472 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 3: it'll pop back into my head of like, oh, that's 473 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 3: what you were supposed to have done. And it just 474 00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:58,400 Speaker 3: really feels like this is one of the biggest struggles 475 00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 3: that we all have these days. Yeah, trying to capture 476 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 3: the task that you need to do so that you 477 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,640 Speaker 3: can find the time to actually plan for them. 478 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:10,240 Speaker 2: Definitely. 479 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: I just think you just need to remove stuff from 480 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,760 Speaker 1: your head wherever possible. Not yours personally, but just people 481 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,840 Speaker 1: in general need to get stuff out of their head 482 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:22,199 Speaker 1: and onto paper or digital paper. 483 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,439 Speaker 3: And so you're working from home, how have you found 484 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,680 Speaker 3: what are some things you've done to enable that kind 485 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,439 Speaker 3: of clean break at the end of the day to 486 00:25:30,640 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 3: really separate work in life. 487 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,160 Speaker 2: I would say I have not done that successfully. 488 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: I do have a clean start to the day, so 489 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,119 Speaker 1: I've got a pretty good morning rhythm, which does it 490 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: varies a little bit depending on whether my daughter's with me. 491 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: So I've got my six and a half year old daughter, 492 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,520 Speaker 1: Frankie with me half the time, so mornings are quite different. 493 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:56,960 Speaker 2: When she's with me versus not. But typically morning. 494 00:25:56,720 --> 00:26:01,119 Speaker 1: Start we exercise of some kind and then when I 495 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:04,639 Speaker 1: don't have Frankie, I will pretty soon get into work 496 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,400 Speaker 1: sort of fairly early. If I've got Frankie, then there's 497 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,960 Speaker 1: school related routines that go with that. But at the 498 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,040 Speaker 1: end of the day, yeah, look, there are things that 499 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: I've tried that if I stuck to them religiously, they 500 00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 1: would be really good. So something that we teach a 501 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,800 Speaker 1: lot of our clients, and I know some of the 502 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: teams still do this at Inventium is we call it 503 00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:31,120 Speaker 1: like a shutting down your day ritual, where an ideal 504 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:33,520 Speaker 1: way to finish the work day, and this is based 505 00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: on research that we've done where it significantly increases productivity 506 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,000 Speaker 1: and well being is simply write two sentences. So the 507 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: first sentence is today I made progress on dot dot dot, 508 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: and you think about like you essentially reflect on what 509 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,399 Speaker 1: are the things where you made meaningful progress? 510 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 2: And why this is effective. 511 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,120 Speaker 1: Firstly, we often don't stop and reflect, but we also 512 00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:02,399 Speaker 1: know from research from Harvard professor Theresa A. Marble A 513 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:07,040 Speaker 1: is that making progress on things that matter is the 514 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 1: single biggest contributor to us feeling engaged and motivated at work. 515 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 1: So stands to reason that if every day we can 516 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:17,200 Speaker 1: think about what did I make meaningful progress on, We're 517 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: going to feel a whole lot more excited about our work. 518 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,320 Speaker 1: Then the second thing that we recommend people do, and 519 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:24,959 Speaker 1: that when I'm having a good day I will do 520 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:28,920 Speaker 1: this is I will finish the sentence out Tomorrow will 521 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,239 Speaker 1: be a great day if if I do X, Y 522 00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,320 Speaker 1: or Z. So typically what I will always do is 523 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:38,000 Speaker 1: I will time box my day the day before so 524 00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:41,000 Speaker 1: I'll have a plan for the following day. And by 525 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: time boxing, I mean essentially making meetings with myself around 526 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: what are the key tasks or projects that I want 527 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,680 Speaker 1: to work on and what do I want to accomplish 528 00:27:50,040 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: and approximately how long do I think that will take 529 00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,000 Speaker 1: me so I've got a clear idea of what's. 530 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:55,879 Speaker 2: Coming the next day. 531 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:01,719 Speaker 1: The evening before I will sometimes not switch off very well, 532 00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: and look, one of the things that I feel makes 533 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: it a little bit murky is well a couple of things. Firstly, 534 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,720 Speaker 1: I love my work, and so work doesn't feel like work. 535 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,000 Speaker 2: So for example, if I'm. 536 00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:16,720 Speaker 1: Editing a podcast episode at seven o'clock at night, many 537 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:18,040 Speaker 1: would argue that his work. 538 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,600 Speaker 2: For me, that's really interesting. 539 00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 1: So I'm just as happy doing that as I am 540 00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: reading a book. 541 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,400 Speaker 2: Or binge watching something on Netflix. 542 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,119 Speaker 1: And likewise, the other thing that's further complicated things if 543 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: I talk about switching off and having boundaries is that 544 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,920 Speaker 1: I recently launched a second podcast called how to Date, 545 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: and that's a show where myself and my closest girlfriend 546 00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: talk about we talk to different experts about how to 547 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,400 Speaker 1: get better at dating when you didn't think you'd be 548 00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,480 Speaker 1: dating again having been out of my marriage for about 549 00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: a year. And that was created as a non work project. 550 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: But you could argue that I'm doing work when I'm 551 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:58,280 Speaker 1: doing that. So I find it really hard to answer 552 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: how do I set boundaries, because really I've got no idea. 553 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, and that rings so true. Everyone I know in 554 00:29:06,240 --> 00:29:10,640 Speaker 3: a creative role finds there is no work life balance 555 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 3: like there are work life blurs that happen, but not 556 00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,400 Speaker 3: not balance in any kind of clean way. One of 557 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,280 Speaker 3: the things you just send there that I really loved 558 00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,680 Speaker 3: because it was the positivity of the language used is 559 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,440 Speaker 3: it will be a great day if because I think 560 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 3: so much of how people plan their day, plan their 561 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 3: schedule is based on guilt, you know, like I need 562 00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,920 Speaker 3: to get this done, I've got this, I've got this 563 00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 3: deadline looming over me, and if I don't get this done, 564 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:43,240 Speaker 3: I'm just going to be a wreck. Where it's you've 565 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 3: totally flipped that around and said no, no, no, of course 566 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:49,760 Speaker 3: you have a due. But if you do that, that's incredible. 567 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 3: I don't know. There was something about that is really lovely. 568 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:55,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's funny. It reminds me. 569 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 1: I recently had Toria Pit on the show and which 570 00:29:59,920 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: is an episode I'm releasing in a couple of days actually, 571 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: and we were talking about self talk on the interview 572 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: and she said something I'd also heard this from Dan 573 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,520 Speaker 1: Pink as well, and it just reminded me in terms 574 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,120 Speaker 1: of what you say about most people, like think about 575 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: your scheduling things out of guilt, and the self talk 576 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,120 Speaker 1: is oh I have to do that, or even with 577 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:24,160 Speaker 1: something like exercise. H I have to exercise, or I 578 00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,080 Speaker 1: have to go to the gym, or maybe not the 579 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: gym because you'll probably die of COVID. 580 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 2: But you know, I have to do home gym workout. 581 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: And rather than saying I have to, just simply changing 582 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,440 Speaker 1: that to I get to I get to exercise, I 583 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:43,320 Speaker 1: get to interview such and such for my podcast, I 584 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: get to finish writing this article. 585 00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 2: And it completely changes your mindset. 586 00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,960 Speaker 1: And I just think it's such a such a cool hack, 587 00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:54,040 Speaker 1: and for me, it was really brought to life because 588 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: I do use it. I try to work out five 589 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 1: mornings a week in my home gym, and there are 590 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:04,640 Speaker 1: some warnings where I'm like, I really can't be bothered, 591 00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:07,480 Speaker 1: but I remembered this tip and I'm like, I get 592 00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: to exercise, I get to exercise, and sort of, you know, 593 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:12,520 Speaker 1: mildly change things to me. But then I got an 594 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,640 Speaker 1: injury and I was kind of not at full capacity 595 00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,000 Speaker 1: for a couple of weeks, and you know, the physio 596 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 1: felt like my home away from home. And then once 597 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: I was injury free, it really sunk it. It's like, oh, 598 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,320 Speaker 1: I get to exercise, my neck is better. So I 599 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 1: think that that can be a useful way to flip 600 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:30,120 Speaker 1: things and get rid of that guild. 601 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,400 Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, it's funny. I never thought I would miss 602 00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:38,280 Speaker 3: swimming pools as much as I am right now in Melbourne. 603 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:40,960 Speaker 3: I just cannot wait to take my daughter to swimming 604 00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 3: lessons again. It's going to be the greatest down in 605 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 3: the world. One of the thing I've heard from people 606 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:51,280 Speaker 3: in your field of expertise, a common issue is that 607 00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 3: people don't People always underestimate the time it takes them 608 00:31:55,640 --> 00:32:00,280 Speaker 3: to do tasks, and that's why they end up feeling 609 00:32:00,360 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 3: so guilty that, oh I didn't I only got through 610 00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:07,400 Speaker 3: this much today. When if they actually took the time 611 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:10,240 Speaker 3: to record how long it takes to do a task, 612 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,840 Speaker 3: that will they see very quickly that they've actually been 613 00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:15,280 Speaker 3: pretty productive that day. 614 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: Yes, it is. It is common, the whole planning fallacy, 615 00:32:20,320 --> 00:32:23,400 Speaker 1: and I think the more now. Remember I heard this 616 00:32:23,480 --> 00:32:27,480 Speaker 1: tip from cal Newport, who I mentioned earlier, and he says, 617 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: the more we get into the habit of time boxing, 618 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: so actually essentially scheduling meetings with ourselves to do the 619 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: work and particularly the deep work that we need to do, 620 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 1: the better we get at estimating how long something will 621 00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,920 Speaker 1: take us. So certainly with practice you get better at it. 622 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:49,000 Speaker 1: But then Darren Murph, who I also mentioned before, talked 623 00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:53,719 Speaker 1: about his philosophy around not being one hundred percent scheduled, 624 00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 1: because if you're one hundred percent scheduled, nothing can go wrong. 625 00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: If it does, there's stress, there's no room for spontaneity, 626 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: there's no room for creativity. So how Darren thinks about 627 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:07,560 Speaker 1: his diary is that he'll never be one hundred percent scheduled. 628 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,120 Speaker 1: And that was definitely a recent tip that stuck with 629 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: me and has really changed how I think about my 630 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: diary because previously I would, even if it was just 631 00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:23,320 Speaker 1: timeboxing meetings with myself as opposed to actual meetings involving 632 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: other people, I would be one hundred percent booked in 633 00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: terms of how I would plan out my day. But 634 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,200 Speaker 1: now I always make sure that I've got an hour 635 00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:36,520 Speaker 1: or two that is completely unscheduled, and it completely changes things. 636 00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: It makes days so much less stressful, and it means 637 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:41,240 Speaker 1: that if I do want to spend a bit more 638 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: time on a task, or if something is taking longer 639 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:48,040 Speaker 1: than I'm anticipated, I'm not feeling stressed or anxious about it. 640 00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:50,480 Speaker 1: I can simply just go a bit longer, and I 641 00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 1: can kind of like moving Tetris blocks around in my diary, 642 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,560 Speaker 1: just kind of move things down in my electronic diary. 643 00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,000 Speaker 1: So I find those things useful when I think about, Yes, 644 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,280 Speaker 1: the guilt that can come from being overscheduled. 645 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I think if you've got I've met a 646 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,480 Speaker 3: couple of people in my life who have the full 647 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,799 Speaker 3: you know, seven am to nine pm, every moment, every 648 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 3: minute planned out. But they're people who have Like the 649 00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,680 Speaker 3: one I really remembered was the VC of a university 650 00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 3: that I used to work for, and they needed that 651 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:30,640 Speaker 3: because they were constantly everywhere. But they had three people 652 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,200 Speaker 3: who looked after their calendar. If you've only got one 653 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:37,000 Speaker 3: person looking after your calendar, you're right, you don't have 654 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:39,600 Speaker 3: that ability to just make changes on the fly. 655 00:34:41,160 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's exactly right. 656 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,120 Speaker 1: And I mean, look, there is a counter argument to that, 657 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 1: which I also think is a good one. And I 658 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,600 Speaker 1: remember this comes from near El who read the book 659 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,960 Speaker 1: Indistractable and before that wrote the book Cooked, both very 660 00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,960 Speaker 1: popular in tech circles and outside of tech circle. 661 00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,640 Speaker 2: And in Indistractable he. 662 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,040 Speaker 1: Talks about the benefits of literally scheduling what you are 663 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,360 Speaker 1: doing from the minute you wake up to the minute 664 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: you go to bed, with the theory being how can 665 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:16,080 Speaker 1: you be distracted from something if you weren't consciously doing 666 00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,440 Speaker 1: something in the first place. 667 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:19,560 Speaker 2: And I kind of think. 668 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:22,359 Speaker 1: The opposite argument is really interesting to make as well, 669 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,439 Speaker 1: and just being really conscious and deliberate as to how 670 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,319 Speaker 1: you are spending your time, so I can see it 671 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:28,920 Speaker 1: both ways. 672 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,279 Speaker 2: Personally, I'm more of. 673 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:34,239 Speaker 1: The not scheduling, not being scheduled out one hundred percent 674 00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:34,520 Speaker 1: of the time. 675 00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:35,840 Speaker 2: I'm finding that really works for me. 676 00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 3: And so you said that people can actually book you, 677 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 3: to book your company to come and walk their teams 678 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 3: through some of these some of these are improvements and goals. 679 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So we've got a couple of programs. 680 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,520 Speaker 1: We've got a program for individuals and groups of individuals 681 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,560 Speaker 1: working within organizations, and we've had I think like several 682 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:02,600 Speaker 1: thousand people go through it now where we put them 683 00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:06,360 Speaker 1: through a five week course. It's all delivered virtually, of course, 684 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:10,319 Speaker 1: and we get huge improvements in productivity. 685 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:12,319 Speaker 2: So we typically get sort. 686 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,640 Speaker 1: Of a twenty to twenty five percent improvement in productivity 687 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 1: over a five week period. But what's really interesting, I 688 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:21,440 Speaker 1: reckon is that we also measure things like job satisfaction 689 00:36:21,480 --> 00:36:24,160 Speaker 1: and engagement and just how good people are feeling. And 690 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 1: we typically get improvements of between sort of twenty five 691 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: to thirty percent improvement in how satisfied people are with 692 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: their job. But the thing is, we're not changing anything 693 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,840 Speaker 1: about their job. We're simply changing how are they approach 694 00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:40,880 Speaker 1: tasks day to day, And simply through changing the way 695 00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:43,719 Speaker 1: you work, you can have a huge impact on how. 696 00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 2: Much enjoyment you get from your work. 697 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: And I think that that was a really surprising finding 698 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: for me, and it's something that we've replicated time and 699 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: time again, but I just think it's it's it's really 700 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: worth really rethinking how you approach your work, you know, 701 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,520 Speaker 1: particularly during the work from home era, where often we 702 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:08,160 Speaker 1: just kind of fall into patterns and sometimes they're good 703 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: and sometimes they're, you know, not that good. 704 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:13,359 Speaker 3: That makes total sense. I mean that no one wants 705 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,279 Speaker 3: to be bored at their job, but no one wants 706 00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,319 Speaker 3: to feel constantly overwhelmed either, And I feel that so 707 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,640 Speaker 3: many of the people I've known over my career have 708 00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 3: kind of oscillated between those two ends of the spectrum, 709 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,279 Speaker 3: and it's just not a healthy way to be. 710 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, definitely one hundred percent. 711 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for your time. And where can 712 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:38,080 Speaker 3: people find your work? 713 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,920 Speaker 1: Well, they can search for how I Work wherever they 714 00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts. They can also search for how to 715 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 1: date if you are single and looking for advice on 716 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,960 Speaker 1: that front. And in terms of the work that I do, 717 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,239 Speaker 1: you can simply search for inventim, which is invent with 718 00:37:56,280 --> 00:37:59,239 Speaker 1: an ium on the end, and you can even type 719 00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:02,480 Speaker 1: in dot com door and you will find my company's site. 720 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,720 Speaker 2: That is it for today's show. 721 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,479 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this episodes, you might want to check 722 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,240 Speaker 1: out metter me Eta, which you can search for wherever 723 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: you listen to your podcasts. 724 00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:18,319 Speaker 2: And if you are enjoying How I Work, why not. 725 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,799 Speaker 1: Leave a review in Apple Podcasts or whever you listen 726 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: to this too. You can simply leave a star rating, 727 00:38:24,200 --> 00:38:27,919 Speaker 1: or maybe you can write some lovely words. I read 728 00:38:28,080 --> 00:38:31,000 Speaker 1: every single review that comes through, and thank you to 729 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,480 Speaker 1: the hundreds of people that have left reviews. You are 730 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,840 Speaker 1: all completely awesome in my books. So that is it 731 00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:39,160 Speaker 1: for today's show, and I'll see you next time.