Speaker 1: It's in the news today, but it was actually on
Speaker 1: TV Reload the podcast last week Nebine. Welcome back guys
Speaker 1: to TV Reload. As you may know, my name is
Speaker 1: Benjamin Norris and this is your podcast to get all
Speaker 1: the insight goss on the popular TV shows you may
Speaker 1: be watching from around the world. Undeniably, our TV sets
Speaker 1: are still a major part of our home entertainment, and
Speaker 1: yet very little is known about how our favorite shows
Speaker 1: get made. So each episode, I've been finding guests that
Speaker 1: want to dive just that little bit deeper into the
Speaker 1: shows they're currently making, so that you can hear all
Speaker 1: their exclusive stories and gain access to the biggest names
Speaker 1: in Australian television. I want to thank you for downloading
Speaker 1: or subscribing to this podcast however you've found it. I
Speaker 1: love hearing your feedback, so make sure you leave a
Speaker 1: review or a comment on your chosen podcast platform. This chat,
Speaker 1: I'm joined by Ryan Core who is back in Australia
Speaker 1: to collaborate with the ABC Australia on a new series
Speaker 1: called in Limbo, which premiere is Wednesday, the twenty fourth
Speaker 1: of May at nine pm and then on ABCTV and ABC.
Speaker 1: I view all six episodes are going to be available
Speaker 1: to stream straight after the launch, and I strongly suggest
Speaker 1: you take a chance on this new show.
Speaker 2: In Limbo.
Speaker 1: Ryan does talk to me today about the role of Charlie,
Speaker 1: whose best friend dies at the age of thirty eight.
Speaker 1: Charlie is forced to face his grief in a way
Speaker 1: that he could never have imagined when the ghost of
Speaker 1: his friend begins to haunt him. The series may sound
Speaker 1: a little bit grim, and the idea of being a
Speaker 1: comedy drama might actually surprise you, but I'm here to
Speaker 1: tell you that this show is highly entertaining if you
Speaker 1: don't mind laughing and needing a box of tissues at
Speaker 1: the same time. The in Limbo production team did an
Speaker 1: amazing job behind the scenes and they were extremely grateful
Speaker 1: to have a mental health advisory group working with them
Speaker 1: during the development of the production. And I want to
Speaker 1: offer a content warning as well. This conversation today does
Speaker 1: include topics of mental health, suicide and depression, and I'd
Speaker 1: like to offer the Lifeline twenty four hour telephone number,
Speaker 1: which is a crisis line thirteen eleven fourteen. I will
Speaker 1: ask Ryan if this project was of a particular interest
Speaker 1: and if he said yes, because he wanted to add
Speaker 1: to the important conversation of men's mental health. Ryan will
Speaker 1: talk about the differences of working on shows like How
Speaker 1: So the Dragon overseas and making TV here in Australia,
Speaker 1: and why he enjoys the intimacy of localized production. We
Speaker 1: will discuss how he shaped his relationship with actor Bob
Speaker 1: Morley to give their best friend's status the right authenticity
Speaker 1: that this show required. Plus, we will get plenty of
Speaker 1: exclusives from behind the scenes of this fantastic news series
Speaker 1: in Limbo, which, as I mentioned, starts this week on
Speaker 1: ABC Australia. Anyway, I'm very excited about this because I
Speaker 1: love Rank Kore and we should probably bring him into
Speaker 1: the podcast and unpack this fantastic new show. Hey Ben,
Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you so much for
Speaker 1: doing this chat. Like I'm the hugest fan of your work,
Speaker 1: I kind of begin to tell you, and I've used
Speaker 1: this opportunity to interview you today to sort of revisit
Speaker 1: a lot of your work. So over the weekend I've
Speaker 1: pretty much seen everything.
Speaker 3: Okay, how far back did you go?
Speaker 1: All the way back? I'm clearly holding the man was
Speaker 1: so important to me. I read that book when it
Speaker 1: first came out, and anyway, but we're not here to
Speaker 1: talk about that. We're here to talk about in Limbo.
Speaker 1: How did you become I'm involved with this series.
Speaker 3: Got sent the script as per usual.
Speaker 2: I'd worked with Bunya before, but never Jennifer from Ers,
Speaker 2: and I.
Speaker 3: Had a pretty visceral reaction to the script.
Speaker 2: I think strangely everyone that's ultimately been involved with Limbo
Speaker 2: had the same reaction, but maybe laugh and cry. And
Speaker 2: that's not always the case, you know. I think within
Speaker 2: ten to fifteen pages you can usually tell if something
Speaker 2: grips you or not. But I found with this that
Speaker 2: I was sort of like laughing out loud. I could
Speaker 2: see the comedy and then literally within the next scene,
Speaker 2: I'd found myself, oh, like you know, holding back, holding
Speaker 2: back tears, and there's something very powerful about that. And
Speaker 2: it also had a pace to it. It also sort
Speaker 2: of did all of those things while still really moving,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. It sort of touched on
Speaker 2: these really heavy topics, made you laugh, made you cry,
Speaker 2: and got out of there, and so that was really exciting.
Speaker 2: And Trent O'Donnell, who I just think is one of
Speaker 2: the best directors in the world. Definitely one of the
Speaker 2: best comedy directors in the world who I'd worked with
Speaker 2: on Moody's. I found it he was attached and that
Speaker 2: just sort of completely articulated the series.
Speaker 3: So from what I.
Speaker 2: Read to understanding, having having Trend's sensibilities attached to it,
Speaker 2: I could sort.
Speaker 3: Of have an idea of what it might be.
Speaker 2: But the challenge then became once Bob and I got
Speaker 2: cast and we all sat around in a room together,
Speaker 2: how do we meet that tone, which is kind of
Speaker 2: an unusual one to hit.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm going to talk about that in a second,
Speaker 1: but I just want to say the showed completely. It
Speaker 1: just penetrated me so deeply, and I was about halfway
Speaker 1: through the first episode and I got up. I thought
Speaker 1: I was going to the bathroom, but I just leaned
Speaker 1: over the bed and had like a cry, And that
Speaker 1: has never happened to me with any movie or series
Speaker 1: I've ever seen. And to also throw something on top
Speaker 1: of that, I found myself equally having a laugh. That
Speaker 1: was just as honest with this series. So I hope
Speaker 1: people don't think, oh, this is going to be a
Speaker 1: sad show because it's got levels.
Speaker 2: Oh well, that's so amazing to hear. Ben, I'm so
Speaker 2: pleased it touched you in that way. That was certainly
Speaker 2: our pursuit, and I think it was also the challenge.
Speaker 2: It's also how do you deal with themes about suicide
Speaker 2: and about loss, about grief, and about coming together and
Speaker 2: not get lost in that and not find it too
Speaker 2: wallowing or overwhelming. I think, much like life I've just
Speaker 2: been saying today, I find Limbo is very much a
Speaker 2: series about life, as much or more so about life
Speaker 2: than it is about death.
Speaker 3: It's about how.
Speaker 2: We come together afterwards. It's about how we process these
Speaker 2: things ourselves and within our communities and within our families.
Speaker 2: And in a strange way, you can watch the whole
Speaker 2: of Limbo with Nate being a manifestation of something that
Speaker 2: Charlie's created in order to deal with the loss of
Speaker 2: his friend. In order to it's his memory of what
Speaker 2: his friend was like. It's his memory of the gags
Speaker 2: that all the things that he'd give him shit about.
Speaker 3: So that there are those there are those layers to it.
Speaker 2: And we also took it, you know, in dealing with
Speaker 2: themes like suicide, we also took the utmost responsibility in
Speaker 2: sitting with each other at the beginning of this and
Speaker 2: getting to know each other extremely well personally and our
Speaker 2: experiences both directly and indirectly with loss, and also sit
Speaker 2: down with the psychologists so that we knew that we
Speaker 2: were approaching this in the correct way and giving it
Speaker 2: the utmost respect. Having said all of that, I think
Speaker 2: if this series is about life as much as it's death.
Speaker 2: In life, there are those moments, and they often come
Speaker 2: at the same times of profound sadness, you know what
Speaker 2: I mean. You can have just finished and then something
Speaker 2: makes you that your mum does something that makes you
Speaker 2: laugh in inappropriate and all of a sudden it's cathartic.
Speaker 2: And I think that balance and that sort of that
Speaker 2: levity and that weight and sort of having both of
Speaker 2: them exist is in most of our lives and in
Speaker 2: most of our relationships, and certainly something we've tried to
Speaker 2: tried to put into limbo. It's not an easy thing
Speaker 2: to do, you know, because totally it's an unusual show.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 1: I kept thinking, how are you doing this? Because I'm
Speaker 1: thinking about the subject matter. I'm thinking about the realities
Speaker 1: I've been in situations of unspeakable grief and those moments
Speaker 1: have been really odd because I found myself laughing. I
Speaker 1: remember my best friend's sister passed away last year and
Speaker 1: she was laughing on the day that that happened. She
Speaker 1: looked at me like I'm a terrible person, and I
Speaker 1: was like no, I was like, sometimes that's that very
Speaker 1: fine line between something quite horrific can make you laugh,
Speaker 1: like it's a human reaction. It's in us.
Speaker 2: When I lost my grandfather, we were really lucky. We
Speaker 2: almost lost him a couple of times and didn't, and
Speaker 2: we had him for like five years, longer than we
Speaker 2: should and in the end it was sort of like,
Speaker 2: you know, a pretty slow process, but we're all it was.
Speaker 2: It was my mum and her sister and myself and
Speaker 2: my sister all holding hands as he was going, and
Speaker 2: you know, he was a stubborn old thing, and he
Speaker 2: was sort of like you know, oh, mysh, I remember
Speaker 2: you sort of pulled his auction thing out and was
Speaker 2: like this is the time. And as we're all sort
Speaker 2: of holy hands saying it's okay, it's all right, mate,
Speaker 2: it's okay that you go now, he made like this
Speaker 2: funny We called him Wad, my grandfather's name.
Speaker 3: We call him dad wad Waddy daddy, and he made
Speaker 3: this funny sound. He was like something like that, and
Speaker 3: all of us.
Speaker 2: Like from absolute you know, literally saying goodbye to the man,
Speaker 2: burst out in hysterical laughter and were of the last
Speaker 2: memories we have of each other are sort of laughing
Speaker 2: out saying it's okay, you can let go now.
Speaker 3: And that stuck with.
Speaker 2: Me for my whole life, and my sister too, and
Speaker 2: and I just remember it being so cathartic. It's just
Speaker 2: such an incredible experience sitting there with the people I
Speaker 2: love most in this world saying goodbye to a person
Speaker 2: that I loved most in this world together like it
Speaker 2: was almost like a passage and finding and finding this
Speaker 2: moment of absolute levity in it and life, and it
Speaker 2: was and it helped me process it, and having that
Speaker 2: experience helped all of us in the letting go of him.
Speaker 3: And I also after that.
Speaker 2: And I know that in the show Limbo, people explore
Speaker 2: people experience grief differently, they definitely process it differently. And
Speaker 2: I think particularly in Limbo, we meet Charlie and he's
Speaker 2: trying to put things in the ways to distract him.
Speaker 3: He's trying to be of service.
Speaker 2: He's trying to help, he's trying to do he's trying
Speaker 2: to dose after the family that are still here that
Speaker 2: Nates of Nates, and I think m Harvey's character is
Speaker 2: this wonderful emotional weight and this emotional, incredible tether into reality.
Speaker 2: She's she's Okay, sure this has happened, but I've got
Speaker 2: a child to look after here, and i have to
Speaker 2: get the bills done. And we're over here on the finances.
Speaker 2: And there's that way, and then there's, in a strange way,
Speaker 2: there's the way Nates, manifested is dealing with it. It's
Speaker 2: sort of like completely avoidant and hey, let's just keep
Speaker 2: it up here, you know what I mean? Hey, no,
Speaker 2: what are we talking about? Like it's all his boys.
Speaker 2: It's avoiding answers until they sort of find them together.
Speaker 2: And what I love about it is that in Charlie
Speaker 2: pursuing answers through the series that he might possibly never get,
Speaker 2: it's the people that are left that go looking for
Speaker 2: those answers.
Speaker 3: He actually finds a part of himself.
Speaker 2: And so in a strange way, Nate's sort of guiding
Speaker 2: him from beyond to help him understand that he has
Speaker 2: things that he has to process to not just the
Speaker 2: grief of Nate, but in his own life. And that's
Speaker 2: sort of the ultimate sharing of love for.
Speaker 1: Me, you know, and I think that's so important in
Speaker 1: this show. I mean, mental health in you know, is
Speaker 1: a big issue in Australia. I think we need more
Speaker 1: conversations about it, and I think scripted drama is a
Speaker 1: really impactful space to do that. You know, was this
Speaker 1: something that you particularly wanted to explore?
Speaker 2: Well, I mean no, it's certainly not something that was like,
Speaker 2: oh yeah, like you know, a drama comedy dealing with
Speaker 2: grief and loss. But the idea of trying to make
Speaker 2: something that treaded that balance, that had both both of
Speaker 2: those things within it really appealed to me because of
Speaker 2: those experiences that I talk about, because life has been
Speaker 2: that for me and I could see that sort of
Speaker 2: coming out of out of the page when I read it.
Speaker 2: And so the challenge became trying to try to trying
Speaker 2: to paint that, you know what I mean, trying to
Speaker 2: take it off there and try to do that. And
Speaker 2: I don't think we got it all the way right,
Speaker 2: and sometimes you know, we were like, hang on a second.
Speaker 3: If Nate's here.
Speaker 2: If this is Charlie's version of Nate, then wouldn't he
Speaker 2: be telling him? You know, there's a lot of complications
Speaker 2: within it, but it is a huge, huge issue, I think,
Speaker 2: particularly amongst young men, particularly in Australia between twenties and thirties,
Speaker 2: people in different minorities, people of color, like, there was
Speaker 2: a number of ratios that are really out of whack,
Speaker 2: I think, particularly out.
Speaker 3: Of after COVID.
Speaker 2: I think COVID was a time that for a lot
Speaker 2: of people was really difficult in the mental health space.
Speaker 2: I think it brought up a lot of things for
Speaker 2: people because we were so confined, because we dealt with
Speaker 2: a lot of loss and a lot of fear because
Speaker 2: we were around those that we love all the time
Speaker 2: and sort of and sort of you know, there was
Speaker 2: a certain I know, form me, there was a certain
Speaker 2: claustrophobia to that. And so I think we've sort of
Speaker 2: seen a rise, you know, now that we've sort of
Speaker 2: like started to come back into the world again, there's
Speaker 2: been a rise in awareness around mental health and other
Speaker 2: people perhaps realizing that they're not as okay as they
Speaker 2: thought they were. One of the things that Limbo I
Speaker 2: think does really well is that it shows you know,
Speaker 2: what's on the surface isn't necessarily always what's going on behind,
Speaker 2: And in my experience of mental health, that's very much
Speaker 2: been the case. And I think that after COVID, I
Speaker 2: think that time and what that sort of did sort
Speaker 2: of made a lot of people sort of reflect a
Speaker 2: little bit bit more so on their mental health, and
Speaker 2: I hope start more conversations about it, and I hope
Speaker 2: that this show is a part of that conversation.
Speaker 1: It's going to do that.
Speaker 2: I love the fact that it's had any of that
Speaker 2: impact for you, man, like truly like that that means
Speaker 2: that that means a huge amount, because that's all we
Speaker 2: can try and do is have that is have it
Speaker 2: land on someone and have an impact like it's had
Speaker 2: for yourself, so that it's like a.
Speaker 1: Lift as well, Like as in for me, you don't
Speaker 1: realize you're carrying things, and I was carrying things that
Speaker 1: I didn't realize and then when you can see your
Speaker 1: self on screen in a show like this and you go, oh,
Speaker 1: that's what's happening to me. I didn't know that, and
Speaker 1: that show sort of elevated that for me, and personally
Speaker 1: it felt like an actual tangible lift from me.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, that's so wonderful. I can't tell you how
Speaker 3: great that is to hear.
Speaker 1: Do you think that we are making progress in the
Speaker 1: fight to combat you know, the issues in society that
Speaker 1: we have, particularly about men suffering, you know, quietly behind
Speaker 1: closed doors.
Speaker 3: I think we are making progress. Yeah, And I think
Speaker 3: I think this show is a part of that. I
Speaker 3: think we're making I think.
Speaker 2: It's because slowly, the ideas of toxic masculinity and being
Speaker 2: okay and stiff upper lip and you know, I'll be right,
Speaker 2: don't worry about it. Slowly the illusion of that is
Speaker 2: being dissipated, and we're realizing that true masculinity and true
Speaker 2: strength is actually being vulnerable and actually sharing. And I
Speaker 2: think again, the state of the world and what's been
Speaker 2: happening recently has really sort of focused that in a bit.
Speaker 2: So I like to think I like to think that
Speaker 2: we're making sort of head roads in psychology and in
Speaker 2: ideas of mental health and in people understanding that there
Speaker 2: is places to reach out to for help and where
Speaker 2: they will receive it and there is nothing, there's zero
Speaker 2: shame around it, you know what I mean. I think
Speaker 2: for the longest time, it's been a generational thing. It's
Speaker 2: just not something you spoke about. And I hope that
Speaker 2: now we're in a more articulate and open society that
Speaker 2: we do feel safer to share about those things and
Speaker 2: to reach out and get the help that we have.
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know if the numbers back
Speaker 2: up that that is changing, but I'd like to think
Speaker 2: that conversations like this and that shows that Nimbo can
Speaker 2: have something to do with continuing that conversation.
Speaker 1: I think your work is really quite powerful. I mean, collectively,
Speaker 1: we don't sit down and watch a particular's actors work
Speaker 1: like I did over the weekend. But I thought that
Speaker 1: there is a hidden kind of mission statement in what
Speaker 1: it is that you've been able to achieve in the
Speaker 1: roles that you've played as a male. And I think
Speaker 1: that that's quite courageous because that's the very essence of
Speaker 1: the whole thing, is us believing we have to be
Speaker 1: this particular Aussie bloke, where for you, you've been able
Speaker 1: to navigate what it is to be a man in
Speaker 1: your work and in the stories that you've told. I mean,
Speaker 1: has there been times where you've really questioned what it
Speaker 1: is to be a man and what.
Speaker 2: That oh my whole life continually yesterday. Yeah, that's a
Speaker 2: really profound thing to say. Yeah, And I have been
Speaker 2: very fortunate and lucky for a number of reasons. One
Speaker 2: being able to do something that I really believe that
Speaker 2: I'm passionate about that has the artistic and creative sort
Speaker 2: of like availability to do so. But I've always had
Speaker 2: great teachers and mentors. I went through drama school after
Speaker 2: I'd done some of those teen shows, and I had
Speaker 2: Kevin Jackson, who's just recently passed, who is May he
Speaker 2: rest in peace, who was such a giant of a
Speaker 2: man in my life, who sort of taught me that
Speaker 2: what I was doing wasn't just about coming in and
Speaker 2: doing a good job of making people laugh, for doing characters,
Speaker 2: actually about something much bigger than you. It's actually about
Speaker 2: a narrative that's been going on for you know, sixty
Speaker 2: five thousand years plus. You know what I mean, when
Speaker 2: we ran a fire saying this is what happened on
Speaker 2: the Hunt today, all the way up until at theater,
Speaker 2: up until now. So it about elevating writers, and elevating
Speaker 2: two writers rather and two great artworks, and serving your
Speaker 2: place within that and so that sort of changed the
Speaker 2: responsibility of my job for me. You know, it wasn't
Speaker 2: just something that I was good at that, you know
Speaker 2: that I'm good attention was like, oh, there's a responsibility
Speaker 2: to this. And I've been so lucky and fortunate too
Speaker 2: in so many different worlds to explore and research so
Speaker 2: many different worlds, you know, from the AIDS crisis in
Speaker 2: the eighties in Australia to Arnham Land and the church
Speaker 2: up there in early colonial Australia to Brisbane where I'm
Speaker 2: just dealing with something that's a little bit closer to
Speaker 2: home because I've got those friendships that are like brothers
Speaker 2: to me, and I've lost people in those friendships, and
Speaker 2: I've lost people in my life.
Speaker 3: And I really like what.
Speaker 2: You said earlier about you could see yourself in that family.
Speaker 2: I mean, if we've done our job well at all,
Speaker 2: everyone indirectly or directly has been has been affected by loss,
Speaker 2: and hopefully you can you can feel or see yourself
Speaker 2: in Charlie in those families or in the family as
Speaker 2: a whole. Hopefully you can receive something for your own
Speaker 2: life from that. I've just been very lucky, you know.
Speaker 2: It's an unusual thing in this job. Getting often get
Speaker 2: to it's like, this is what you are. What do
Speaker 2: you like when you are bad? What do you like
Speaker 2: when you are wrong? What do you like when you
Speaker 2: are happy? What do you like when you're in love?
Speaker 2: What is it like when you're really dark and sociopathic?
Speaker 1: And we are all those things? You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: We are you know, I've just.
Speaker 2: Got to every now and then dial up and dial
Speaker 2: down those things, and yeah, hell yeah. It's made me
Speaker 2: question at different stages, like, well, which part of this
Speaker 2: is Ryan and which part is and which parts are
Speaker 2: how much of what I just associated with or how
Speaker 2: much of what I just discovered inside myself is from
Speaker 2: my reality and how much of it is being immersed
Speaker 2: in that world? And yeah, it's like it's like like
Speaker 2: therapy every time. And so I've really made a concerted
Speaker 2: effort to between those jobs and do the things, to
Speaker 2: do my own therapeutic process and to just make sure
Speaker 2: that I remain grounded and aware of who I am
Speaker 2: as an individual, as a person well explored.
Speaker 1: I feel really repulsed about myself. Sometimes I'll do things
Speaker 1: which I don't agree with, and I'll be like, why
Speaker 1: did I do that and my part and we'll bring
Speaker 1: it up. He'll be like, some of this behavior is
Speaker 1: not okay, And then I loathe myself, you know, I think,
Speaker 1: oh my god. And it's taken me a long time
Speaker 1: to sort of try and appreciate who I am as
Speaker 1: a person and not beat myself up for those things.
Speaker 1: Because we are all of these things, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, we are all doing them feels more potent,
Speaker 1: I guess when you do it to yourself. But I won't,
Speaker 1: at the age of forty, beat myself up for some
Speaker 1: of those things that are within me because I can't
Speaker 1: help them. And I think a part of my own
Speaker 1: mental health struggle is having to come to terms with
Speaker 1: them and try to change them a little bit.
Speaker 2: When did that change for you? Because I know for
Speaker 2: me personally, I very much like you. I have the
Speaker 2: most incredible inner critic and a lot of the time
Speaker 2: I found over the years that was ultimately it was
Speaker 2: some of my some of my biggest downfalls was just
Speaker 2: like this voice that you know, this voice of shame
Speaker 2: ISSLLWD in your head. But I remember having the conversation
Speaker 2: much like you, with myself sort of saying you need
Speaker 2: to be kinder with yourself, and you need to take
Speaker 2: you there is enough precious from every other than to
Speaker 2: add the more to yourself and to honor yourself and
Speaker 2: to have space and love for yourself, you know.
Speaker 3: And it wasn't until I.
Speaker 2: Like early thirties and I think I really started to
Speaker 2: even think about this. How many thirtre now is like,
Speaker 2: you've been pretty hard on yourself up until this point,
Speaker 2: and there's no reason to be. And there's part of
Speaker 2: me that wants to reach back into that. So anyone
Speaker 2: go hey, man, like you know, like take him under
Speaker 2: my wing and sort of go like, listen, these are
Speaker 2: things that you don't need to be fearful low and you.
Speaker 1: Have to keep reminding yourself of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, I noticed that in certain friendship
Speaker 1: circles that I saw some repeated behavior that had me
Speaker 1: going they're the problem and being forced to recognize that
Speaker 1: the similarities between that same problem I was facing was
Speaker 1: happening with multiple people. So I must be the problem.
Speaker 1: Not to quote Taylor Swift, but hello, it's me on
Speaker 1: the song, isn't I remember I said that to my
Speaker 1: partner last night. We were talking about something, you know,
Speaker 1: personal and I was like, you know, it's me, I'm
Speaker 1: the problem, and you know, it was a tense argument.
Speaker 1: It was a tense comsation to have. And we laughed
Speaker 1: because we were like, yeah, you know, that's that Taylor
Speaker 1: Swift song. But it's a song because we can all
Speaker 1: recognize it, you.
Speaker 2: Know, exactly, it's a tailor as all as time because
Speaker 2: we can all recognize it.
Speaker 3: And I think that's a really big moment.
Speaker 2: I think it's a really big moment when you realize
Speaker 2: that the things that you're projecting possibly onto other people
Speaker 2: or onto other parts of your life potentially are actually
Speaker 2: coming from somewhere closer to you and.
Speaker 3: Yeah, from yourself.
Speaker 1: This podcast wasn't supposed to be like a therapy session
Speaker 1: for the book. I think it is and I'll publish
Speaker 1: it so people will probably be driving and their cars
Speaker 1: are going for their walk and hopefully thinking, oh, these
Speaker 1: two nut jobs.
Speaker 3: They're like, I wait to watch this comedy.
Speaker 1: No, but there's so much comedy in it, like it's
Speaker 1: in Bob Molly and like you, the relationship that you
Speaker 1: have is you know, it was so elated, you know,
Speaker 1: and I thought, how are they? Did you spend much
Speaker 1: time working on a friendship behind closed doors before trying
Speaker 1: to actualize it on film, Like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, I don't think you have you know, you
Speaker 2: can't pretend to be too better friends, you know, and
Speaker 2: that are that close with each other, with that heart
Speaker 2: without doing all of those things.
Speaker 3: But I think also there was something to the rhythm
Speaker 3: of this piece.
Speaker 2: There's something to do with the the you know, the
Speaker 2: rat a tat tat, and I think all comedies kind
Speaker 2: of rhythm, all comedies kind of like a debt. So
Speaker 2: it was kind of this interesting balance between really making
Speaker 2: sure that those the dramic moments or the or the
Speaker 2: the more weighted moments were very much caught in truth.
Speaker 2: And you could sort of also couple that with, you know,
Speaker 2: with things that rhythmically sort of make you laugh, like
Speaker 2: I say, And yeah, as I said, I think I
Speaker 2: think in life that happens. And so yeah, we works
Speaker 2: off them like a plane, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: We'd sort of like we'd have these lines so down
Speaker 2: that we could sort of start playing with each other
Speaker 2: and articulating.
Speaker 3: We had to.
Speaker 2: Find that polarity. I think Nate is Charlie very much
Speaker 2: holds Nate's on a pedestal. You know what I mean,
Speaker 2: he's his he's his idea of of alpha and of
Speaker 2: cool and of charm and of kindness, and I think
Speaker 2: he very much holds him above himself in that regard,
Speaker 2: and possibly Charlie has to do a bit of a
Speaker 2: bit of soul searching to to be able to understand
Speaker 2: himself in that level, and then he possibly doesn't. I
Speaker 2: think a big part of Charlie's losses he feels like
Speaker 2: he's lost that that part of his life that you
Speaker 2: know that that represents all of that to him, and
Speaker 2: I think he discovers in trying to look for answers,
Speaker 2: he finds more out about himself.
Speaker 1: But do you think about the banter though, that people have,
Speaker 1: Like if you think about the banter that you've got
Speaker 1: with your best friend or I've got with my best friend,
Speaker 1: or when you're listening to people at the pub.
Speaker 3: Slapping on the air, there's a real.
Speaker 1: Like maybe it's an Australian tone that I recognize, But
Speaker 1: then to watch it being actualized on film, like in
Speaker 1: particular in this show, I was, yeah, I was. It
Speaker 1: was delightful.
Speaker 2: I really liked there was something that Lucas wrote in there.
Speaker 2: It was like almost while they worked in the backyard
Speaker 2: together with the wood and with his meage making the
Speaker 2: cubbyhouse for Anna Bell. There was almost a poetry to
Speaker 2: the movement. And I've grown up with trade. All of
Speaker 2: my best mates, my nates in my world are all trades.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean that too.
Speaker 2: I've sort of used to sort of invest into this relationship,
Speaker 2: and there absolutely is there's something beautiful and poetic about
Speaker 2: working with your hands and about about creating things out
Speaker 2: of nowhere. And I think they really you really sort
Speaker 2: of see that in that friendship. You see the sort
Speaker 2: of this fluidity that they sort of this ease that
Speaker 2: they have with each other that I think comes after
Speaker 2: years of time and years of trust. And we also
Speaker 2: we were really fortunate we sat down together for a
Speaker 2: number of weeks at the start Lucas and with Bob
Speaker 2: and Trent myself and just got to know each other
Speaker 2: and now each others sense of humor so personally so
Speaker 2: that we could so that we could have that familiarity,
Speaker 2: so that it wasn't forced, so that we you know,
Speaker 2: when we're actually trying to make each other laugh, we're
Speaker 2: actually trying to make each other laugh. And I think
Speaker 2: with Trenny is so incredible that coming there, a scene
Speaker 2: starts as an idea.
Speaker 3: He comes in, then he sees and then.
Speaker 2: He's like, yeah, all right, stop there, right, yeah, now
Speaker 2: say this, yeah, now, Bob, say this to this, now
Speaker 2: go back, say this and there, and you can sort
Speaker 2: of see him working in the moment and everything. Every
Speaker 2: idea is sort of funny. And we're also lucky enough
Speaker 2: to have Lucas there on set, our writer, who was
Speaker 2: it was just so collaborative, and any ideas that we
Speaker 2: had to sort of to focus in, to focus scenes in,
Speaker 2: or to make them funnier, or to just to just
Speaker 2: get something out out there. We're completely welcomed and open
Speaker 2: and so you could sort of feel all those different
Speaker 2: all of those different textures I think, I think in
Speaker 2: the final product, I hope so anyway you can.
Speaker 1: But I mean also I think that a very Australian
Speaker 1: friendship is about challenging you mate, and I think that
Speaker 1: that's what you can see as well. You both are
Speaker 1: challenging each other, even in the very first scene where
Speaker 1: we aren't aware of the situation completely. It's not until
Speaker 1: you walk in in that you know in the funeral
Speaker 1: home that we realize the actuality of what's happened, but
Speaker 1: just in the scenes that then continue. There is a
Speaker 1: way in which I think we all, if you feel
Speaker 1: safe enough to do so, and I hope everyone does,
Speaker 1: then has a friend like that. You know, there's that
Speaker 1: safety in being able to, you know, hold up a
Speaker 1: mirror against your best friend and challenge.
Speaker 2: Them exactly because it's not always it's Yeah. I think
Speaker 2: I think we should we should promote that in each other,
Speaker 2: you know, I certainly do in my friendships. And I
Speaker 2: think that should wed provide each other be better and
Speaker 2: to to open up, you know anything, if anything.
Speaker 3: This series should be about that.
Speaker 2: And I don't know, I'm sort of talking about this often.
Speaker 2: I don't know if it's a quintessentially Australian thing. I
Speaker 2: mean definitely being Australia and growing up in Australia and
Speaker 2: then being the males that have been in my world.
Speaker 2: It certainly seems so. It certainly seems this idea of stoicism,
Speaker 2: I know, it'll be right. No, it doesn't hurt that much,
Speaker 2: like you know, sort of like an avoidance almost of
Speaker 2: vulnerability or of completely articulating how you feel.
Speaker 1: And it seems isolated. It seems isolated to Australia because
Speaker 1: it's colloquial to us, you know what I mean. Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm living Australia, so I see it. I hope it's global.
Speaker 1: I hope other communities.
Speaker 2: And you know, ratio wise, when it's not, it's not,
Speaker 2: I hope it's global. I do think ratio wise Australia,
Speaker 2: you know, it's not too fantastic in terms of numbers,
Speaker 2: and I think particularly within a certain age age demographic,
Speaker 2: it's particularly bad. And at the root of all this is,
Speaker 2: you know, like, let's investigate as to why that may be.
Speaker 2: Let's start some of the conversations as to what may
Speaker 2: lead to things like that, or what are some of
Speaker 2: the signs that may be not completely visible to us
Speaker 2: that are there for us to investigate.
Speaker 1: Have you been wanting to work with the ABC in particular?
Speaker 1: I mean, this home for this show is perfect and
Speaker 1: I have an honest belief in thinking Australia has ABC
Speaker 1: has a particular stronghold on the social consciousness of Australian people,
Speaker 1: which means that it lands really well. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the project was written for ABC. But
Speaker 1: did you feel like this is the right home for it.
Speaker 3: I definitely do.
Speaker 2: And I think it's because exactly what you've just articulated,
Speaker 2: I think, I think, and I think it's over the
Speaker 2: last ten years, it seems to have changed somewhat.
Speaker 3: ABCMS seemed to be at the forefront of.
Speaker 2: Stories that are taking a bit more risks, that are
Speaker 2: a bit more edgy, that are going there, and they're
Speaker 2: quintessentially Australian and they're looking really well classed done in
Speaker 2: the newsreader only so recently Total Control. You know, these
Speaker 2: are all varying, varying series. Fisco was watching recently and
Speaker 2: I've just seen some of the latest Ai Donna stuff,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. This is really quite edgy stuff,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. And we haven't seen a
Speaker 2: number of our other networks. And I really remember when
Speaker 2: I first read the script, I was like, who's gonna
Speaker 2: Who's going to allow us to do this? You know,
Speaker 2: dildo jokes and we're dealing with suicide.
Speaker 3: I'm doing it, you know what I mean. It's like
Speaker 3: and I was really impressed. And though there's a channel
Speaker 3: that my grandma watches, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And I think there's the years we've thought you can't
Speaker 1: say these things to different generations. But if you say
Speaker 1: that to your grandma, she'll be like, well, you know you.
Speaker 3: Kidding me, mate? You think you wrote the book on this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you thought I did it before you, Matete, Where
Speaker 1: do you think you get it from? Exactly right? And
Speaker 1: people want to see real, real recognized as real, And
Speaker 1: I think that that's about wanting to explore ourselves. And
Speaker 1: I think ABC have always been very good at it,
Speaker 1: but particularly there has been a shift which I've noticed.
Speaker 1: You mentioned a lot of shows Significant Others, so many
Speaker 1: other shows that I've seen recently where I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I feel I feel seen, I feel like and I
Speaker 1: want to laugh at this and I want to laugh
Speaker 1: at inappropriate things because life is like that, nothing's nothing's
Speaker 1: I've not been censored by the real world, So why
Speaker 1: should I be censored by the art that's created in storytelling?
Speaker 1: You know? A men?
Speaker 2: And I think you know, and kudos at the ABC
Speaker 2: for allowing that. That's you know, I mean, it's not
Speaker 2: always unless it's sort of like happy ending, squeaky clean,
Speaker 2: you know, it can often be so hard to make.
Speaker 2: So I really, I really, I really, I really admire
Speaker 2: producers and creatives that are willing to sort of back
Speaker 2: ideas that aren't that are a little outside the box.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Because I think it's in that that you can you
Speaker 2: can potentially find things that are that are brilliant and
Speaker 2: fresh and new.
Speaker 1: You know, is there more reward I don't know the
Speaker 1: best way to describe this. Is it more rewarding it
Speaker 1: as an actor to be able to well, I guess say,
Speaker 1: is there more satisfaction in a part, like a smaller
Speaker 1: role in a production at home in Australia to then
Speaker 1: doing something like House of the Dragon. I mean what
Speaker 1: I mean it's a very broad question and obviously these
Speaker 1: different types of work, but I just I kind of
Speaker 1: mean for yourself, is there something more rewarding about being
Speaker 1: able to investigate something like this at home then you
Speaker 1: know something as Grandios's House of the Dragon.
Speaker 2: It's sort of it's sort of project dependent. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say there's something more appealing. They're just entirely they're entirely
Speaker 2: different in one way and they're exactly the same in
Speaker 2: another way. So what I love about here in Australia,
Speaker 2: and this is what the rest of the world loves
Speaker 2: about Australia. We can get things done world class in
Speaker 2: a quarter of the time with a quarter of the money,
Speaker 2: and we do it like this, right, we shoot sixteen
Speaker 2: scenes a day.
Speaker 3: We can get it.
Speaker 2: Everyone's like four in the morning, let's go out till
Speaker 2: six and rock and we get it done.
Speaker 3: We get it done bloody well.
Speaker 2: And our cruise and our creatives are so incredible at
Speaker 2: doing it, Like overseas, come down and you're like holy,
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, we can do that. When you go overseas,
Speaker 2: that same project takes four or five six times the
Speaker 2: amount of time, Like you'll do half a scene over
Speaker 2: a week as opposed to sixteen a day. And so
Speaker 2: your job actually, the way you can serve your energy
Speaker 2: becomes different that you're the way that you on Limbo.
Speaker 2: We do there every day going okay, we're gonna do
Speaker 2: this nineteene. That's that's really important. That's hard, and that's
Speaker 2: and there's that gag seene at the end of the day,
Speaker 2: can we do that after here, because we're going to
Speaker 2: be sweaty up, you know. Over there it can often
Speaker 2: be waiting for half a week thinking you're going to
Speaker 2: shoot on the Monday, waiting for half a week until
Speaker 2: you come in and shoot a quarter of the scene.
Speaker 2: Just it's a lot more separated, it's a lot less
Speaker 2: all in one for all, it sort of feels a
Speaker 2: bit like a wonderful traveling circus of gypsies here in
Speaker 2: Australia where we go around you make little pocket families
Speaker 2: for six months or three months, whatever project you're making,
Speaker 2: you dive into that world, you dive into research of it.
Speaker 2: You're each other's families literally sleeping, eating, living together for
Speaker 2: that time, having left your families at home, and you
Speaker 2: try and make something beautiful, and then you go and
Speaker 2: then everyone goes and does it in different places all
Speaker 2: over again, and it's sort of like you come in,
Speaker 2: you will try and create something and then go and
Speaker 2: then leave. Over there, it's a bit more so you
Speaker 2: rock up and just just do your job and and
Speaker 2: you know, there's not nearly as much sort of like
Speaker 2: crossovers and being able to hang out with your crew
Speaker 2: and get to know them as on personal level.
Speaker 3: And that's just because of scale. It's just because there's so.
Speaker 2: They're doing things that are so much bigger, so much more,
Speaker 2: that they're literally a separation here. I really love the
Speaker 2: personal nature to what we do here. I love the camaraderie.
Speaker 2: I love I love the feeling of when everyone's leaning
Speaker 2: into a script. And I also love, you know, the
Speaker 2: challenges sort of getting there and like having to use
Speaker 2: all your engine and we get it done. I like
Speaker 2: less the having a sort of conserve for one half
Speaker 2: a day over over three months.
Speaker 3: Do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: They're just different things, but ultimately they're the same. It's
Speaker 2: about connecting with another actor, and it's about trying to
Speaker 2: serve your function in a narrative that's bigger than you
Speaker 2: and hopefully make the story good.
Speaker 1: Well, don't get me wrong, I think that you're consistently
Speaker 1: brilliant in the stories that you tell, so regardless of
Speaker 1: the process, whether it is global on one of those
Speaker 1: big sets, or whether or not it is more confined
Speaker 1: to you know, the comforts of being in a smaller set,
Speaker 1: it always comes across. It always lands the same way
Speaker 1: for me as an audience, as someone as someone in
Speaker 1: your audience.
Speaker 3: What's about well, and that's that's a lovely thing to say.
Speaker 3: It's about It's about culture. You know.
Speaker 2: I grew up in the in the Australian industry, and
Speaker 2: Around the Twist meant the world to me, do you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? And I'm very I'm very passionate
Speaker 2: about being a part of the culture which I'm a part.
Speaker 2: So I don't think it's it's it's less. It's just
Speaker 2: it's always about the project specifically, it's about it's about
Speaker 2: what they're trying to do, and where that is a
Speaker 2: sort of is very much circumstantial.
Speaker 1: I love that you say that about Round the Twist.
Speaker 1: I love it when act to say I never forgot
Speaker 1: that particular moment or I never forgot that.
Speaker 3: Deal is all scenes, you know.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, another show that I watched a bit
Speaker 1: of over the weekend. Anyway, I literally I went to
Speaker 1: the Smaugers board of Ryan Core. I had a great
Speaker 1: time and I never threw up, which is always what
Speaker 1: a pizza hut mums like. You can eat as much
Speaker 1: food as you like, but just don't spew. Everyone who
Speaker 1: joins the podcast asked this last question, and that's something.
Speaker 1: What is something from behind the scenes if in limbo,
Speaker 1: something of a kind of like a behind the scenes
Speaker 1: something we won't know as an audience, might be something
Speaker 1: funny that happened on set or something of a funny
Speaker 1: anecdote I don't know, like something that we won't have seen.
Speaker 3: Oh look, there are a number of them. Bobby and I.
Speaker 3: I love it's appropriate to say yes, it is always Bobby.
Speaker 2: And I had this one seed that we could not
Speaker 2: get through to the life of us, and the crew
Speaker 2: ended up getting shitt of.
Speaker 3: Us because it was like it was this really important moment.
Speaker 2: It's like where his mum, his grandmothers couldn't make it
Speaker 2: to his funeral because she she's not well, and and
Speaker 2: Nada to turn around and Bobbit to turn around and
Speaker 2: say no, Charlie, Nana needs to come, and we couldn't.
Speaker 2: Now I know it's juvenile, but we were talking about
Speaker 2: something else to come for far too long, and every
Speaker 2: time we turned around, go no, Charlie, Charlie, and it
Speaker 2: needs to come. We were to go too far, far
Speaker 2: longer than it should. I'll also tell you that you
Speaker 2: know the work that's going on behind the scenes, the
Speaker 2: amount of love that's gone into this show overall.
Speaker 3: Like I said earlier, everyone who's read the script wanted
Speaker 3: to be there from the bottom of their heart.
Speaker 2: And you can really feel that leaning in nature, that
Speaker 2: that warm nature in in in what you see, I hope,
Speaker 2: and so I think that what peple won't see is
Speaker 2: how much genuine love and care went into the articulation
Speaker 2: of something that hopefully, hopefully you know, moves you or
Speaker 2: makes your love well.
Speaker 1: It is extraordinary work. It is a very funny, very
Speaker 1: heartfelt production. I'm so happy for ABC that it's coming
Speaker 1: out and for people are listening to this now. It's
Speaker 1: great that we can sit here as men, different types
Speaker 1: of men, talking about mental health and hopefully that sheds
Speaker 1: a light on, you know, some of the complications we've
Speaker 1: had along the way with being able to express ourselves openly.
Speaker 3: I really hope.
Speaker 2: So, I'm really I'm overwhelmed that it's touched you like that.
Speaker 2: That's sort of exactly what we're aiming for. So yeah,
Speaker 2: I hope so too,