1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Someone who knows the trauma of losing a loved one 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: to senseless crime. Is my next guest. She's advocated so 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: strongly since her son Declan was murdered while at worked 4 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:13,720 Speaker 1: two years ago. It was a crime which shattered the community, 5 00:00:14,000 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: a crime we hoped that we'd never have to face again. 6 00:00:18,280 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 1: Joining me on the line is Samara Lavity. Good morning, Samara, 7 00:00:22,880 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: Good morning Katie. Samara. When did you learn what had 8 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: happened to Linford in his workplace and what was your reaction. 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 2: I was told about it probably within about ten minutes 10 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 2: of the actual incident occurring, and before it had sort 11 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: of hit any sort of media, and it was sorry, 12 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 2: it was a real sucker punch at gut punch because 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 2: it was just like it's happened again. Yeah. 14 00:01:07,280 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 1: Sorry, No, Samara, don't be sorry. I can't begin to 15 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: imagine how you feel at this point in time. I mean, 16 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: one of the things that you have said to me 17 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:22,520 Speaker 1: on so many occasions is that you just never wanted 18 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,759 Speaker 1: another family to have to go through what you went through. 19 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 1: And you've advocated so strongly over the last couple of 20 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:36,199 Speaker 1: years when so many others, quite honestly, would have fallen 21 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: in a heap, and I've no doubt that you've probably 22 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: wanted to at different times, but you've done so much 23 00:01:42,959 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: to honor your son, and you've done so much to 24 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 1: try and help the Northern Territory community when it comes 25 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:50,960 Speaker 1: to crime. 26 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,480 Speaker 2: I know, it just came back to I didn't want 27 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 2: anyone to ever have to go through this and that, 28 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: and I yeah, throw my words were all over the 29 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: places of. 30 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: Samara. You took to social media on the weekend and you, 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: you know, just seemed like you were angry. And I 32 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: don't doubt that you were. When you learned that the 33 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: alleged murderer was on bail for previous violent offending. 34 00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,480 Speaker 2: It was it just yeah, it made me absolutely furious. 35 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:33,280 Speaker 2: And when I found out what those offenses were, and 36 00:02:33,320 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: then subsequently found out that it was an extension of bail, 37 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 2: it's just like you're letting these people out. You know, 38 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: somebody who had aggravated assault, rape, sexual intercourse with a child. 39 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 2: This is not you know, someone who's just gone and 40 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 2: stolen a couple of chocolate bars. This is someone who 41 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:04,160 Speaker 2: has done and straight at a significant pattern of dangerous 42 00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 2: and violent behavior. And by allowing him out, whether or 43 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 2: not you know, how do you foresee something like this, 44 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 2: But it's to read further serious offenses based on that 45 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:25,480 Speaker 2: pattern of behavior. And again it's somebody who doesn't want 46 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: to be told no, and this is what's happened. 47 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: And Samaraw of course I will point out, as I 48 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: know you did in your video and social media on 49 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 1: the weekend, as I've done on numerous occasions this morning, 50 00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:40,680 Speaker 1: we know that it is all alleged offending. It's frustrating, 51 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: but they are the words that we have to use. 52 00:03:44,040 --> 00:03:48,560 Speaker 1: I meant, yeah, you had said over the weekend that 53 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,880 Speaker 1: you know that you you thought that whoever had granted 54 00:03:53,320 --> 00:03:57,680 Speaker 1: this person bail should stand down from their role. 55 00:03:59,200 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I still stand by that. And I also 56 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,400 Speaker 2: acknowledge that I don't know a lot of what happened 57 00:04:06,880 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 2: behind the scenes, or the legalities or any of that 58 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 2: sort of scene. But come back to if, like I've 59 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 2: spent my entire adult life as a paramedic, if I 60 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:23,880 Speaker 2: took action on a scene where that person ended up 61 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: dying for whatever reason that was a reasonablief for seeing 62 00:04:28,560 --> 00:04:32,280 Speaker 2: consequence of what I did, I'd have lost my job 63 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: there on the spot. These people need to be held 64 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:44,560 Speaker 2: to some degree of accountability. I guess it's just luck 65 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 2: that it hasn't happened again in the last two years, 66 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: up until last Wednesday. But you know, if almost any 67 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 2: other job role, if that was you know, the consequence, 68 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 2: then somebody died, people will be asking questions. 69 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:08,080 Speaker 1: And it just like you know, if I do the 70 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: wrong thing on air, there's questions asked, and there's certainly, 71 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 1: you know, consequences to it. And and I feel as 72 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,719 Speaker 1: though that is what territorians are expecting, that they're you know, 73 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: that they're at the very least a question is being 74 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 1: asked as to how somebody accused of incredibly violent offenses 75 00:05:26,839 --> 00:05:31,200 Speaker 1: can then be on bail to allegedly commit further crimes. 76 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: It's it's beyond frustrating. It's you know, it feels like 77 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: it's reaching a point where the system is aimed at 78 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: helping offenders rather than keeping the community safe. 79 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:49,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I keep coming back to just the fact 80 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 2: that this was such a serious set of circumstances that 81 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:58,480 Speaker 2: he was on bail for I have been told him. 82 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:01,040 Speaker 2: I'm not one hundred percent sure how correct it is, 83 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: but that initial bail was granted before the inception of 84 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 2: Jethleen's Law, bail portion starting, but when you're reviewing bail 85 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:16,840 Speaker 2: for something like that, it's you know, but I guess 86 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: then over and above that, you've got to balance that 87 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: with the presumption of innocitt until proven guilty. And that's 88 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,599 Speaker 2: where I think it becomes a very big juggling actor. 89 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 2: And it isn't a position I'd like to be in 90 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:32,640 Speaker 2: having to make those decisions, but it is their position 91 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 2: and it is their jobs. But they definitely seem to be, 92 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: you know, putting the welfare of the community first, and 93 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 2: we've seen that on so many occasions with the two 94 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 2: domestic violence murders that happened at the start of the year, 95 00:06:51,760 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 2: all of the recent assaults that we've seen in Our 96 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,480 Speaker 2: Springs and Catherine and Antennant Creek, almost all of those 97 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: were offenders on bail, but they were on bail prior 98 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: to the inception of the bail portion of Declan's law. 99 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 1: So, Samara, I mean, how are you like in terms 100 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 1: of the changes that the Northern Territory government has made. 101 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: I mean, are you feeling at this point that the 102 00:07:20,480 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 1: government could have done more or are you feeling as 103 00:07:23,920 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 1: though we're being let down through the courts. What's your observation. 104 00:07:29,960 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 2: Oh, I've seen the work that went into and having 105 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 2: been part of the work that went into the changes 106 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 2: of Declin's Law, there has been a huge amount of 107 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 2: work and a huge amount of support on that side. 108 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 2: But you can have all the laws in the world 109 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:48,040 Speaker 2: and they're useless if the judges don't apply them to 110 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:51,560 Speaker 2: the real world situations. And that's what it's going to 111 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,640 Speaker 2: come back to is they have to apply it and 112 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,960 Speaker 2: consider the safety of people before they consider the rights 113 00:07:57,960 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 2: of the offender. 114 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: In terms of what the Chief Minister's announced on well, 115 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 1: she spoke to us on the show just a short 116 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: time ago, but she has said that with you know, 117 00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 1: Parliament being recalled on Wednesday, that she has directed the 118 00:08:13,280 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: Attorney General's Department to urgently draft this legislation to strengthen 119 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: Declan's Law with additional changes to the Bail Act. So 120 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 1: what it's going to mean is that for all serious offenses, 121 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 1: the courts will only be able to consider bail where 122 00:08:27,480 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: they're satisfied that there is no further risk to the community. 123 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:34,520 Speaker 1: Do you think that that is a good move. 124 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:39,680 Speaker 2: I think it's a great move. Whether or not it 125 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 2: should have been put in first is a bit of 126 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 2: you know, the chicken or the egg. In retrospect, maybe 127 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,080 Speaker 2: we should have added that in. But I also feel 128 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:53,960 Speaker 2: now that you know, we've had for what four months 129 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,360 Speaker 2: of Jephon's law, and to see how the judiciary has 130 00:08:57,400 --> 00:09:02,439 Speaker 2: responded to that, there still seems to be a fair 131 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: amount of pushback. So now we have to strengthen that 132 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 2: a little bit more to make sure that they truly 133 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 2: understand that this is behavior that cannot keep being allowed 134 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 2: to occur, and that's being allowed to occur. I mean, 135 00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:24,280 Speaker 2: it's exceedingly multifaceted all the way along from you know, 136 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 2: before you know these offenders commit these crimes, to whether 137 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,679 Speaker 2: or not they should be rehabbed, to whether or not 138 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: they should be out. But the reality is that until 139 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,040 Speaker 2: those changes come through, we need to be safe as 140 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 2: a community. And if that means that somebody who's been 141 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:47,320 Speaker 2: on bail for aggravated assault, deprivation of liberty, rape, then 142 00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 2: you know, I'm sorry put them away because I want 143 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:53,480 Speaker 2: my children and my friends and my family to be 144 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 2: able to go to the shops and come home in 145 00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: one piece. And it just doesn't it seem like the 146 00:10:00,920 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: judiciary really care about the general public. And I don't 147 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 2: understand why. And if they don't, then I guess we 148 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: need to keep pushing those lines of defense for one 149 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 2: of a better term, into making sure that we do 150 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 2: what we can to keep people safe to be able 151 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 2: to go to work, to be able to go to 152 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 2: the shops, you know, to be able to go and 153 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 2: live their own life in safety. 154 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 1: Samara, I really appreciate your time. I always appreciate your 155 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: time when you come on and speak to us. I 156 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,560 Speaker 1: know it is not an easy thing for you to 157 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: relive the trauma that you and your family have gone through. 158 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: I know that you know that what has happened over 159 00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,719 Speaker 1: the recent days and what happened to Linford. I can 160 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:57,440 Speaker 1: hear it in your voice that it has hit you hard, 161 00:10:57,120 --> 00:11:00,240 Speaker 1: and and you know it's I think it's it's hit 162 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: the whole community so hard once again. 163 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:05,040 Speaker 2: It has. 164 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very I'm always very grateful for you coming 165 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,600 Speaker 1: on and speaking when I know it is difficult. 166 00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 2: For you to do. No, that's okay, okay, but yeah, 167 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: it has. It's set off for anxiety, and it's nightmares 168 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:24,520 Speaker 2: and it's flashbacks. But it's because it's set those off 169 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:27,360 Speaker 2: that I keep pushing forward because I don't want anyone 170 00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: else to have to feel it. And unfortunately, because somebody 171 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: has let them down, another family is going through this 172 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: and that just absolutely breaks my heart. It shouldn't be happening. 173 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: Samara Lavity, thank you so very much for your time 174 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 1: this morning. 175 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:48,200 Speaker 2: Thank you, Katie, I appreciate it.