Speaker 1: This podcast is brought to you by on Track Studio.
Speaker 2: Welcome to Yanni Up, the podcast that showcases First Nations
Speaker 2: stories and conversations to help us learn and unlearn Australia's
Speaker 2: history to work towards a better future. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: proud barber woman and founder of Black Waddel Coaching and Consulting,
Speaker 2: Caroline cow. We acknowledge the rundery people and elders where
Speaker 2: this podcast is taped, but we also acknowledge the lands
Speaker 2: that you are listening in from today. It always was
Speaker 2: and always will be unseated Aboriginal and tourist Red Islander Land.
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful sunny day. The birth of Nullah is
Speaker 2: being met with family, beautiful coastline country. Teacher's surrounded by
Speaker 2: her loved ones. Husband is not.
Speaker 3: Far, he is on hand, the kids, They're all part
Speaker 3: of this journey too. Teach and the mob are preparing
Speaker 3: the coolermen and the postma skin ready for Nullah's arrival.
Speaker 3: There smoke billowing, I can almost smell it. Two nurses
Speaker 3: and health workers are insight an tishe lysis, her body,
Speaker 3: her archetype, her ancestors. They've been here before.
Speaker 2: Well, I had the absolute pleasure of meeting this incredible
Speaker 2: sister at a recent mother daughter retreat that we along
Speaker 2: with Leekouch and Britt and yourself kind of co collaborated on,
Speaker 2: which was a really special retreat with mothers and daughters
Speaker 2: down at Hepburn's Springs. And you know, it's funny when
Speaker 2: you meet people, I always call them sunshine people because
Speaker 2: they just emanate this ease and this light and this love.
Speaker 2: And I I think that's precisely how I would define
Speaker 2: my next guest teacher a sunshine person. Tita wears many
Speaker 2: hats in community, a mother, a cultural woman, adult jar
Speaker 2: program counsel at aubrew Wodonga Health Service. Shout out to
Speaker 2: those mobs who are doing incredible things for community. But
Speaker 2: today we're going to unpack I guess the most the
Speaker 2: most sacred role of all motherhood and Tita's incredible journey
Speaker 2: to motherhood at that. So I want to start by
Speaker 2: saying thank you so much for joining me today. Welcome
Speaker 2: Tianni Up. It's a really it's a delight to have
Speaker 2: you here today.
Speaker 4: Sis.
Speaker 1: Oh, thanks for having me Sis, And yes, I would
Speaker 1: say that you're a sunshine person as well. It was
Speaker 1: a pleasure and honor to make that connection with you,
Speaker 1: Sissy at that camp, and I look forward to our
Speaker 1: many years together on a journey. So yeah, oldest oldest
Speaker 1: introduced myself some mye names Tsha, Maximo McGuinness just recently married,
Speaker 1: so now missus toy. I'm a proud radri Yuan woman
Speaker 1: and my connections are from the country, the river people
Speaker 1: of Brangle and extends over the mountains into Reck Bay,
Speaker 1: the South mob Yuan nation. So yes, a bit of
Speaker 1: bit of fresh water and a bit of salt water
Speaker 1: in me. And yeah, proud mother of four beautiful children,
Speaker 1: and yeah, I would I would classify myself as the
Speaker 1: matriarch of my family and then my lines as well.
Speaker 1: So yes, thanks for having me, Sissy, and they're having
Speaker 1: this space for me to come and yearn.
Speaker 2: No, thank you, siss, thank you so much. And yeah,
Speaker 2: multi clan woman with your with your boras there. You know,
Speaker 2: the retreat that we had was just so special, hay around, yes,
Speaker 2: centering the ex experiences of Aboriginal women as mothers, as granddaughters,
Speaker 2: and we had young warriors and elders and matriarchs all
Speaker 2: coming together. And I know that you were a real
Speaker 2: driving force behind that. And yeah, I'm not surprised that
Speaker 2: you have gone on to share your experiences of being
Speaker 2: a mom and bringing women and mums together in that
Speaker 2: really special way. So yeah, thank you and thank you
Speaker 2: for sharing a bit about your story. I wonder, you know,
Speaker 2: can you tell me a little bit more maybe about
Speaker 2: your your personal story and what it was like growing
Speaker 2: up for you. Yeah, keen to hear a bit more
Speaker 2: if I can.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Sure.
Speaker 1: So I'm the oldest sibling of eleven.
Speaker 4: Wow, I grew up in a home.
Speaker 1: With two younger siblings, so yeah, my mom's had the
Speaker 1: three of us, but I'm the oldest from my father,
Speaker 1: I guess I matured quite young as a child and
Speaker 1: grew up before my time. So the responsibility and the
Speaker 1: roles of the oldest child is an expectation that you
Speaker 1: carry from when you're quite young, and as the female,
Speaker 1: there's an added pressure and an added expectation of you
Speaker 1: to take care. So I've been taking care of family
Speaker 1: and the younger siblings from quite a young age. Beautiful childhood.
Speaker 1: It carries a lot of trauma. We all carry trauma,
Speaker 1: we all carry experiences, but those experiences and the trauma
Speaker 1: that I carry, you know, has really shaped me into
Speaker 1: the woman. So I'm glad I've had those experience and
Speaker 1: I've had those lessons and those traumatic times because they've
Speaker 1: really shaped me and grown me and strengthened me as
Speaker 1: the woman that I am today. But yet grew up
Speaker 1: with a single mother dad in and out of life.
Speaker 1: But you know, shout out to dad. He is who
Speaker 1: he is, and he only knows what he is ever known,
Speaker 1: love him dearly, have a great relationship with him now.
Speaker 1: But yeah, just when we grow up in those homes
Speaker 1: and those situations where our parents you know, did the
Speaker 1: best that they could do, but you know, still pass
Speaker 1: on those experiences. Yeah, I understand their situation, but I
Speaker 1: also you know, going into that retreat, why I wanted
Speaker 1: to be a part of it was because I was
Speaker 1: carrying a mother wound and I you know, throughout my experiences,
Speaker 1: you know, and throughout my healing journey, there's still that
Speaker 1: open wound there that you never really can really get
Speaker 1: to because as women, we just carry on and we
Speaker 1: keep going. And so to take my oldest daughter into
Speaker 1: that experience and help her heal some of those wounds
Speaker 1: that she's carrying, some of those some of those traumas
Speaker 1: that I'd passed on her.
Speaker 4: Or created for her.
Speaker 1: So to step into that space together and together heal
Speaker 1: my mother wounds and her mother wounds, and heal our
Speaker 1: wounds together. You know, it was really beautiful space and
Speaker 1: it was amazing. And I guess to extend on that
Speaker 1: upbringing sis, you know, carrying those experiences has driven me
Speaker 1: to be passionate and to step into this role into
Speaker 1: community to help other women become stronger and heal. And
Speaker 1: I don't think it's about women finding who they are again.
Speaker 1: I think it's about a journey of finding who you
Speaker 1: are right now, because we're never going to be who
Speaker 1: we were yesterday, and we don't want to be that
Speaker 1: woman we were yesterday because every day we wake up,
Speaker 1: we've grown, we've learned, and we've had an experience. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, it's about knowing who you are in that moment,
Speaker 1: in that day. And yeah, so you know, all of
Speaker 1: everything that I've been through an experience has shaped me
Speaker 1: to who I am today. And now I'm just in
Speaker 1: full give back mode. You know, there's I often say
Speaker 1: to my daughter, to myself and to the people I love,
Speaker 1: all the people that you know need to hear. It
Speaker 1: is when we can when we can use the weight
Speaker 1: of our burdens cis as the anchor of our strength,
Speaker 1: will become unstoppable. And so I've managed to channel the
Speaker 1: weight of my burdens into the anchor of my strength.
Speaker 1: And now I'm just thriving and leading in this space
Speaker 1: and being that being that role model, and being that
Speaker 1: woman that I need to be for my people, my children,
Speaker 1: my family.
Speaker 2: Yeah, gosh, that's so powerful, you know, the weight of
Speaker 2: my burdens into the anchor of my strengths. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think this is the most beautiful thing about Black followers.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's so many we could be here for hours,
Speaker 2: but just our ability to hold multiple truths at the
Speaker 2: same time. And you're right, like so many of us
Speaker 2: came from dysfunction and trauma. And it's certainly something that
Speaker 2: has been coming up for me a lot lately in
Speaker 2: thinking about becoming a mother myself. I actually haven't been
Speaker 2: really open. This is probably the first time I've even
Speaker 2: spoken about this on the podcast. That Yeah, my partner
Speaker 2: and I have been on a fertility journey for the
Speaker 2: last year and a half now, and yeah, like it's
Speaker 2: just it's not happening the way that it should or
Speaker 2: the way that we're designed or told to. But yeah,
Speaker 2: that that mother wound and that ability to repairent ourselves
Speaker 2: as well and then become the parent is something that
Speaker 2: if I'm being really honest, I certainly wasn't going to
Speaker 2: start off diving into this, but I think we have
Speaker 2: to go there. But yeah, just like this sense of
Speaker 2: dread and guilt and shame and worry that I'm not
Speaker 2: going to be a good mother because of the mother wound,
Speaker 2: and I've been really doing a lot of work in
Speaker 2: thinking about how do we hold on to the two truths.
Speaker 2: I mean similarly to usis, you know, when I look
Speaker 2: back at my childhood, and we're all so unique, We've
Speaker 2: all got such different experiences. So I don't know what
Speaker 2: your experience was like, fully, but I feel the essence
Speaker 2: of what you're saying, And yeah, like mum was, yeah,
Speaker 2: lots of alcohol, lots of mental health issues, lots of violence,
Speaker 2: lots of sexual violence, and you know, and we were
Speaker 2: sort of, yeah, lived our lives without having really attentive caregivers.
Speaker 2: And now I guess I still look back still with
Speaker 2: such fondness and such love and generosity and hope and
Speaker 2: think wow, like they did the best they could with
Speaker 2: the tools they've got. They didn't get everything wrong because
Speaker 2: we turned out okay ish today anyway. But yeah, so
Speaker 2: that mother wound has been something that's definitely plagued me.
Speaker 2: And so maybe you know, if I could, maybe we
Speaker 2: could unpack that a little bit. You know, you've got
Speaker 2: four beautiful children. I mean, how how have you navigated
Speaker 2: that in becoming the mother and the person that you
Speaker 2: are and will continue to become. Because I think we
Speaker 2: need to explore Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we do explore. We do need to explore it,
Speaker 1: and I guess we do need to go there. And
Speaker 1: I've got it more. You know, I've got it wrong
Speaker 1: more times than I've got it right. But it's about acknowledging,
Speaker 1: you know, the steps we take wrong. Acknowledging you know
Speaker 1: that it's okay to make the mistakes, and that there
Speaker 1: is no handbook, and that every day you wake up,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how many kids you got, it doesn't
Speaker 1: matter how many how many years you've been a mother.
Speaker 1: Every day is a new day, right, something new pops
Speaker 1: up some and you just you just take it as
Speaker 1: it comes, like there's no there's no preparation, sis, there's
Speaker 1: no set way to do things. You just literally wake
Speaker 1: up and do the best you can with the tools
Speaker 1: that you have each every and every day, and that
Speaker 1: that's that's just it, Like there's no there's there's no
Speaker 1: way of doing it right. You know, there's the Western way,
Speaker 1: the things, the box ticking, but you know that's unrealistic
Speaker 1: for anyone.
Speaker 4: Any human being. We're all humans. We all are.
Speaker 1: Just navigating this world however best we can. But yeah,
Speaker 1: all I all I can do is reflect on, you know,
Speaker 1: the experiences that we've had, reflect on the mothering that
Speaker 1: I that I have, the mother that I have been,
Speaker 1: and just try and be better every single day, try
Speaker 1: and do better every single day, and try and be
Speaker 1: the best version of myself every single day so that
Speaker 1: my children have one hundred percent me full I guess,
Speaker 1: a full you know, tuned in mother, authentic mother, that's
Speaker 1: just you know, doing the best she can but leading
Speaker 1: her children.
Speaker 4: In this world.
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's no you know, you can prepare for
Speaker 1: years and years.
Speaker 2: This yeah, and then you it's just so it's like
Speaker 2: the thing that is just so out of your control, really,
Speaker 2: isn't It is all the variables everything from each stage
Speaker 2: from preparing for to fall pregnant, to falling pregnant, to
Speaker 2: the labor to you know what, personality and characteristics your child.
Speaker 2: It's just, you know, there really is no such thing
Speaker 2: as a perfect plan. But you know, the modern world,
Speaker 2: the Western eurocentric view of assumes that you know, the
Speaker 2: mother has to be the expert and know everything and
Speaker 2: do it on their own and kn't aarks for help.
Speaker 2: And it just takes us so far away from how
Speaker 2: we as Black fellows understand families and village and community
Speaker 2: working together.
Speaker 1: Hey it is and you know what, like this is
Speaker 1: probably a really controversial statement, We're going to say it anyways,
Speaker 1: just you know, complimenting what you just said, you know,
Speaker 1: the Western way and what we should be doing.
Speaker 4: And I'll tell.
Speaker 1: You the rarest truth I can give you is that
Speaker 1: you know, as a parent, as a mother especially, we
Speaker 1: have to put ourselves first unselfishly and to getting in
Speaker 1: that space and do to allow yourself to put yourself
Speaker 1: first in an unselfish way, right because all we've ever
Speaker 1: known as our mother or our father. I'll speak for myself.
Speaker 1: My mother's always put herself first unconsciously, but in a
Speaker 1: selfish way. So it's about recognizing those behavior is that
Speaker 1: I've watched, recognizing myself and now putting myself first, unselfishly
Speaker 1: to be the best version of my children. So if
Speaker 1: I'm not well, if I'm not right, if I'm not
Speaker 1: in tuned with myself one hundred percent, how can I
Speaker 1: ever be what my babies need me to be?
Speaker 4: And that's the truth.
Speaker 1: There's an expectation that the mother has to put the
Speaker 1: children first and put their needs first and cater to
Speaker 1: their needs and to the needs of her husband and
Speaker 1: her community and her family. But no, and that's where
Speaker 1: we're getting it wrong. We have to put ourselves first
Speaker 1: in that unselfish way and be the best version of
Speaker 1: ourselves for ourselves first, so then our babies can get
Speaker 1: the best of us and the best from us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a it's such a simple but such
Speaker 2: a powerful thing that you're just saying, which is Yeah,
Speaker 2: I think if you neglect self, and you don't and
Speaker 2: you fall out of love with self, or your fall
Speaker 2: out of being present with self, or you abandon yourself,
Speaker 2: then how on earth can you be attentive and present
Speaker 2: to the things that are happening in your life and
Speaker 2: especially your children. Yeah, I think I'd love to if
Speaker 2: we can, I would love to unpack that a little
Speaker 2: bit further because I know that so many mums and
Speaker 2: especially black women who listening listening to the show, who
Speaker 2: you know, are constantly providing feedback around how do I
Speaker 2: say no when the world, the colony, my family, the
Speaker 2: community just demands so so much from us. So I
Speaker 2: wonder if we can park that and come back to it,
Speaker 2: because I know that's something that we are all experiencing.
Speaker 2: But let's kind of open up with a little bit
Speaker 2: around your birthing experience on Country. And I said to
Speaker 2: Tisha before we started recording that if I can get
Speaker 2: through this without crying around which I have no problems in,
Speaker 2: I am pro tears, but just so that I can
Speaker 2: continue to speak, because you have generously shared a clip
Speaker 2: with me of you giving birth on Country, it is
Speaker 2: a beautiful, like all inspiring. I don't even know if
Speaker 2: there's really English words. I thought, I wish, I wish
Speaker 2: I had language in some of my own tongue and
Speaker 2: not the colonizer's tongue to describe it. Because all I
Speaker 2: can all I can sort of say about the video
Speaker 2: is that. It's this beautiful thirteen minute clip of T
Speaker 2: Shirt giving birth on Country She is, it's a beautiful
Speaker 2: sunny day. They're down near the water, near the coast line.
Speaker 2: You know, children and helpers and healers and Marmott sounds like,
Speaker 2: is there. Mum's rooting for you throughout it, and yeah,
Speaker 2: very attentive. Now Hubby is right there with you the
Speaker 2: entire every breath that you took, he was there, you know,
Speaker 2: seeing I'm getting chills.
Speaker 4: And I'm getting teary.
Speaker 2: Ah it is Yeah, I cried multiple times. I cried
Speaker 2: after it. It just transcends life in all of its beauty.
Speaker 2: Before I go to just kind of talking about the experience,
Speaker 2: you know, me being at this moment, I guess a
Speaker 2: non biological mother. I went and did some googling before
Speaker 2: this to look at, you know, birthing practices, and I
Speaker 2: got met with this article which spoke about everything you
Speaker 2: need to know about birthing basically since birthing began, and
Speaker 2: it started approximately five hundred years ago. And I just
Speaker 2: want to read through a couple of these things, and
Speaker 2: I want to just kind of circle back to, you know,
Speaker 2: how we as indigenous people have come at birth. So
Speaker 2: the article starts in the fifteen hundreds and it just
Speaker 2: talks about European women, you know, it doesn't have any
Speaker 2: no other people of color or anything being mentioned. You know,
Speaker 2: fifteen ninety one it talks about a Scottish woman being
Speaker 2: burned at the stake fasting for pain relief. It goes
Speaker 2: on to talk about ride up until the seventies, you know,
Speaker 2: fathers were finally allowed to stay with their parent, with
Speaker 2: their partner during the labor nineteen eighties is really when
Speaker 2: home birth and birthing centers were finally considered a part
Speaker 2: of the way that women have already given birth. And
Speaker 2: I was just truly blown away that, Yeah, we couldn't
Speaker 2: I couldn't find anything about black women, about ancient practices,
Speaker 2: about you know, the ways that Aboriginal indigenous people have
Speaker 2: been giving birth for thousands of years. They have had
Speaker 2: you know, rituals and ceremonies around labor and birth and
Speaker 2: postpartum periods, and so yeah, I was just I was
Speaker 2: in I was not surprised, but it just goes to
Speaker 2: show that, you know, colonization is is really interwoven into
Speaker 2: every single tapestry, even you know, women and mothers' first experiences.
Speaker 2: So with that, I want to just sort of say,
Speaker 2: can you share with me a little bit around you know,
Speaker 2: just birthing on country generally, you know, what, what's your
Speaker 2: knowledge of how birthing on country practices have come to be?
Speaker 2: Because I'd really like to go back to this. You know,
Speaker 2: before colonization, we were we were doing this as an
Speaker 2: uninterrupted practice for so long, and it just seems that
Speaker 2: there's so much written knowledge I guess missing about this.
Speaker 2: And as more and more women are thinking about this
Speaker 2: as a process and practice, you know, where do we
Speaker 2: find information about this?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Look, and that's a good question, And unfortunately I don't
Speaker 1: have the answer for you. You know, I guess on colonization,
Speaker 1: a lot of our ways and our practices have been
Speaker 1: taken from us and haven't been returned to us. That
Speaker 1: knowledge has been lost, you know, not written down, not
Speaker 1: not found. But I just want to highlight the fact
Speaker 1: that the knowledge is in our dnasis, the books, written
Speaker 1: inside of our makeup.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: And so it wasn't it wasn't. It wasn't a matter
Speaker 1: where I've gone and sought out that information or that
Speaker 1: advice from the aunties, because unfortunately, those generations, they're not
Speaker 1: carrying it. And that's not everyone, that's that's the majority.
Speaker 1: You know, some some women have law knowledge around birthing
Speaker 1: and stuff, but unfortunately for me, I don't have those
Speaker 1: women in my life, and so I relied solely on
Speaker 1: that imprinted DNA that I carry, knowing and listening to myself,
Speaker 1: listening the country, listening to you know, my ancestors, and
Speaker 1: being guided to that space.
Speaker 4: I just found my way.
Speaker 1: There and knew that it was the right thing for
Speaker 1: me to do, and not only the right thing for
Speaker 1: me to do, but the right thing for me to
Speaker 1: show the way and to bring that story back without
Speaker 1: having it written in a book, you know, showing women
Speaker 1: that this is what we've done. And it obviously is
Speaker 1: what we've done because it happened so naturally and so normal,
Speaker 1: and yeah, it hurt a little bit, but nothing like
Speaker 1: the pain I experienced in a hospital system when I
Speaker 1: birthed my first children, and so yeah, I just want
Speaker 1: to highlight again that it's information that's imprinted into our DNA.
Speaker 1: We hold, we hold the knowledge, we hold that space
Speaker 1: and it's imprinted in us, and so listen, being aware
Speaker 1: of yourself, knowing yourself and knowing that the strength you
Speaker 1: carry isn't just your strength, but the strength of all
Speaker 1: those ancestors and those people that came before you.
Speaker 2: What a beautiful way to reframe my colonized mindset really
Speaker 2: in thinking about this in giving birth, I think it's
Speaker 2: a reminder how important language is. And you're right, it's
Speaker 2: something our bodies have been doing since we existed. It's
Speaker 2: something we've had practice around, you know, as women's business
Speaker 2: since millennia. And so it comes back to that inner
Speaker 2: knowing and finding that time to get clear and check in, listen,
Speaker 2: you know, listen to yourself, value, your own knowing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and listening to that deep spring that's
Speaker 1: within us, allowing that deep spring to bubble and grow.
Speaker 1: And right if that deep spring within us that we
Speaker 1: carry is flowing and you know we're listening to it
Speaker 1: and we're being guided, then you know there's no interruptions,
Speaker 1: there's no outside negative influence. We're just fully in tune
Speaker 1: with ourselves and our mother. And I'm talking about you know,
Speaker 1: Mother Earth here, and you know, if we can maintain
Speaker 1: that connection as an individual with Mother, then we become
Speaker 1: the greatest mothers.
Speaker 4: So yeah, well, it's powerful.
Speaker 2: Gosh, I could listen to you ya see what I
Speaker 2: was saying before about sometime person how you're just one
Speaker 2: of those people that is just so powerful and I'm
Speaker 2: hanging off of every single word. It's not really great
Speaker 2: for a podcast, but my mouth is just like in awe.
Speaker 2: I mean, let's think about that. I guess, like connection
Speaker 2: with mother and your connection with mother. You know, you
Speaker 2: gave birth to your second child, Nullah on Country and
Speaker 2: Beautiful Clip.
Speaker 1: Their child, third child.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if you can walk us through the
Speaker 2: process and the day. Like, firstly, I mean very keen
Speaker 2: to hear about what led you to give birth to
Speaker 2: baby number three, Nullah on Country, And I'm wondering if
Speaker 2: you could kind of walk us through through the through
Speaker 2: the process and the day and how it went for you.
Speaker 2: And yeah, if you could kind of help us understand
Speaker 2: this this process that you went through.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, it's a massive journey and it was a
Speaker 1: massive journey Sist that started well before even you know,
Speaker 1: thoughts about creating him. You know, I walked away from
Speaker 1: an extremely violent, volatile relationship that I found myself in,
Speaker 1: you know, that pattern for a good ten years, and
Speaker 1: I found my twin flame. From the moment Marcus and
Speaker 1: I met, I knew that, you know, we're meant to
Speaker 1: be together. And you know, there were there were dreams
Speaker 1: with our old people talking and discussing us, and it
Speaker 1: was it was crazy. And then you know the next
Speaker 1: step of that relationship was, you know, to create, to
Speaker 1: create another part of our love in in a little person.
Speaker 1: And so you know, we were decided, yeah, we both
Speaker 1: coming too this relationship. We both have two children each
Speaker 1: from our previous relationships, and we wanted to you know,
Speaker 1: share our love together and create create a child from
Speaker 1: just the most purest form of love. And you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of people and our one created children previously
Speaker 1: to fix something or to fill a hole that or
Speaker 1: to or to mend a wound that I was carrying.
Speaker 1: I wasn't creating children to create them from pure love.
Speaker 1: And and that's that's the that's the reality, and that's
Speaker 1: that's the raw truth of my story. And so we
Speaker 1: decided that, you know, we would create Nullah. And we
Speaker 1: we lost the child before we created Nullah. And you know,
Speaker 1: through that healing journey and through understanding you know, lost, we.
Speaker 4: Were gifted Nullah.
Speaker 1: And so you know, experiencing the loss of that first pregnancy,
Speaker 1: knowing that I was creating a child out of the
Speaker 1: purest form of love.
Speaker 4: It really it was really heavy.
Speaker 1: And so you know, I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: I've been gifted this fellow. I'm going to do everything
Speaker 1: proper ways. I'm not going to listen to mainstream and
Speaker 1: do the mediocre. This is how you got to do stuff.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to go back to grassroots.
Speaker 1: My people have been here since the beginning.
Speaker 4: I'm going to go back to their ways.
Speaker 1: I like you, tried to study, tried to find out,
Speaker 1: reached out to many people, just trying to be like
Speaker 1: where do I go, how do I do this?
Speaker 4: What do I do?
Speaker 1: And you know, six months into that pregnancy, I was like, woman,
Speaker 1: you know what you have to do. It's in your DNA,
Speaker 1: you know, listen, listen to yourself, listen to your old people,
Speaker 1: trust yourself. And so yeah, I reached out after googling
Speaker 1: so much, to an aboriginal midwife up the North Coast
Speaker 1: and she was doing ceremony out on country with mothers
Speaker 1: who have just birthed, and I was like, Sis, I'm
Speaker 1: going to birth back out on country.
Speaker 4: Can can you support me.
Speaker 1: I was like, because at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: when I'm at that point where I'm going to where
Speaker 1: I'm in labor, I'm going to go down the river
Speaker 1: and it was going to sit under a tree and
Speaker 1: I'm going to do it anyways, but I thought I'd
Speaker 1: reach out first just to have that sister support, you know,
Speaker 1: that matriarchal support, because it's a space.
Speaker 4: That women carry together.
Speaker 1: And she's like, Sis, I haven't done it, but I
Speaker 1: know we can do it, and I can't have you,
Speaker 1: with my Western medical background go out and sit under
Speaker 1: a tree and do it by myself. So I drove
Speaker 1: up to Nara, I met with her and she said,
Speaker 1: doesn't matter what I say, You're going to do it.
Speaker 1: And I can see. I can see the strength that
Speaker 1: you carry and the wheel power. So yeah, she jumped
Speaker 1: on board. Reached out to some home birthing midwives who
Speaker 1: have been you know, in that space and holding that
Speaker 1: space for many years. They currently have a campaign running
Speaker 1: across the country and they come from birth Time Australia.
Speaker 1: So yeah, they were amazing women. They came down, they
Speaker 1: supported me, and I guess manage the Western risks right
Speaker 1: managed the box ticking the medical side of it, because
Speaker 1: you know, that's just the world we live in now.
Speaker 1: We walk in those two worlds and we have to,
Speaker 1: we have to by law, follow that way. And so,
Speaker 1: you know, Marcus and I going into that space knew
Speaker 1: that you know, this is this is how messed up
Speaker 1: it was that we had to acknowledge the fact that
Speaker 1: if anything went wrong, that.
Speaker 4: We were responsible.
Speaker 1: If our child had a medical emergency or did pass
Speaker 1: away during that process, that you know, we would be
Speaker 1: held accountable. And you know what, we owned that and
Speaker 1: took that responsibility straight on our shoulders because we knew
Speaker 1: at the end of the day we were doing the
Speaker 1: right thing, and we had over sixty thousand years worth
Speaker 1: of women before us that did the same thing. And
Speaker 1: so yeah, I guess I went up and stayed out
Speaker 1: on country for a couple months before birthing son, and
Speaker 1: I guess a week before my due date, all the
Speaker 1: midwives average and midwife and the two home birthing midwives
Speaker 1: came down and met me and said we did little
Speaker 1: ceremony and kind of cleansedale spirits as a united force, right,
Speaker 1: and then we went out on country out to the
Speaker 1: National Park where our birth son the week before.
Speaker 4: It was about I don't know, midday, and.
Speaker 1: I was like, this is I was just drawn to
Speaker 1: a spot where the fresh water rolled into the ocean.
Speaker 1: Remember I said previously that's what I made of freshwater
Speaker 1: and ocean people. So it was a magnificant spot. It
Speaker 1: was a spot that resonated with me because of the
Speaker 1: history and the family lineage that I carry. I said,
Speaker 1: I'm going to birth under this tree. The Sun's going
Speaker 1: to be right there where it is in the sky. Now,
Speaker 1: it's going to be a beautiful day surrounded by you know,
Speaker 1: just just that pure peace.
Speaker 4: And that love and that unity.
Speaker 1: I can imagine that on that day animals are going
Speaker 1: to come out of the bush and witness this experience.
Speaker 1: I'm going to have him and then go home, right
Speaker 1: They're like, yeah, all right, we'll see yep. Anyways, a
Speaker 1: week later, went into labor, went out to the spot.
Speaker 1: It was the exact same time of day, beautiful day,
Speaker 1: beautiful space. All the animals were coming out and watching
Speaker 1: me during that labor and as you can see and
Speaker 1: as you have seen on the video, those animals did
Speaker 1: come out and surrounded me and obviously you know that's
Speaker 1: them old people coming and watching and watching their dreams
Speaker 1: that they had for us come true in that moment.
Speaker 4: And I tell you what's this. It was a hectic pregnancy.
Speaker 1: All I had was you know, push back and negativity
Speaker 1: and you can't and you won't, and this is what
Speaker 1: you're going to create and you're going.
Speaker 4: To kill your child and this, this, this, this.
Speaker 1: And that, and I just like acknowledged it. I accepted
Speaker 1: that those people are those people and they are who
Speaker 1: they are, and I understood that their way of thinking
Speaker 1: was a trained way of thinking, and fully respected everything
Speaker 1: that was said to me, but knew that I knew
Speaker 1: what I was doing and that I was capable to
Speaker 1: do what I what I did and what I achieved,
Speaker 1: And I guess the greatest part about it was, yes,
Speaker 1: you know, in a Western system where mothers are pregnant
Speaker 1: and giving birth, that the husbands and the children are
Speaker 1: excluded from that experience. At the moment that you say
Speaker 1: you're pregnant, children aren't invited.
Speaker 4: To those.
Speaker 1: Visits with the doctor. Children are part of those. And
Speaker 1: then we have a child and bring this new child
Speaker 1: home and say, okay, you kids, now love this creature
Speaker 1: that's just taken your mother away from you, so to
Speaker 1: have the children part of that process and a part
Speaker 1: of that experience. You know that that was what it
Speaker 1: was all about for me to show my daughter the
Speaker 1: power that we possess as black women. To show my
Speaker 1: daughter that with all the pushback in the world, that
Speaker 1: you could do what you want to do if you're
Speaker 1: willing to put in you know, the work and back yourself,
Speaker 1: to show her that you are not constrained by the
Speaker 1: systems that hold us and suppress us, that you can
Speaker 1: achieve and your mother's here to do it for you
Speaker 1: and every other woman to know that, yeah, you possess
Speaker 1: the power. No one else can hold or take away
Speaker 1: your power unless you allow them.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, Oh my god, I've got so so many thought
Speaker 2: and feelings running through my mostly feelings. It's it's, it's
Speaker 2: it's a deeply spiritual and emotional conversation this because I mean,
Speaker 2: just the belief that you had and that knowing and
Speaker 2: that fire, and that you and Marcus were so united
Speaker 2: in what you wanted as sovereign, sacred you know, ancestral people.
Speaker 2: Because you're right, like what you said about their going
Speaker 2: back to the conditioning, and you know, when we're looking
Speaker 2: at decolonizing health. It's returning back to practice that have
Speaker 2: sustained us but that are just not valued by Western science.
Speaker 2: And so you know you held that belief and that vision.
Speaker 2: I mean, I've got a couple of clarifying questions just
Speaker 2: to go back for the listeners. So when you made
Speaker 2: that decision, you know, six months during the process were
Speaker 2: and so you had to source out your own support.
Speaker 2: You know at that stage, what did what we met
Speaker 2: with in the in the healthcare system? Did you have
Speaker 2: to do this all on your own? Were you supported?
Speaker 2: Was there anyone else kind of you know, yeah, I
Speaker 2: wonder what you had to sort of go through to
Speaker 2: actually yeah, birth on country? And then what do you
Speaker 2: think when the second kind of question is that is like,
Speaker 2: what do we need to see changing in this system
Speaker 2: to make this a bit more accessible and more supported
Speaker 2: and more guided.
Speaker 1: Okay, so the so the first part of your question,
Speaker 1: I made the decision to birth on country before I
Speaker 1: even conceived Nullah. The reference to six months in was
Speaker 1: I was doubting myself for the first six months because
Speaker 1: of the pushback and the I guess the nose from
Speaker 1: the Western system. So I did have the support. So
Speaker 1: I work at the AMS here in my community, and
Speaker 1: you know, being attending this ams, they know me, the
Speaker 1: doctors know me. I spoke to my you know, obstetrician
Speaker 1: who works at the service, and was like, you know what, this.
Speaker 4: Is what I'm going to do.
Speaker 1: It's it's not even it's not even a matter of
Speaker 1: I'm wanting to do it. I'm needing to do this
Speaker 1: or for for.
Speaker 4: My women, for my daughter.
Speaker 1: And from the start he was he was like, there's
Speaker 1: there's no way. And I was like, what do you
Speaker 1: mean there's no way, Like I wouldn't be here right
Speaker 1: now if all the women before me didn't didn't.
Speaker 4: Hold that space right And he's like it's not possible.
Speaker 1: And I was like, the more you tell me no, mate,
Speaker 1: the more I'm going to go and do it. And
Speaker 1: so I was like, you know what, Marcus. You know
Speaker 1: there's a massive birthing tree on the river down in
Speaker 1: like down at town here. I was like, literally on
Speaker 1: the other side of the hill is the hospital.
Speaker 4: I was like, we'll just.
Speaker 1: Go down there. I'm just going to do my thing.
Speaker 1: If anything happens, babe, just ring the ambulance because it's
Speaker 1: literally a two second drive over the Hill. I told
Speaker 1: the doctors that, you know, this is what I was
Speaker 1: going to do. And so yeah, just the constant pushback
Speaker 1: and just the constant knows And it was, you know,
Speaker 1: this aboriginal midwife that's been practicing for a while in
Speaker 1: the hospitals and holding that safe cultural space for women
Speaker 1: in the Western hospital system. I reached out to her.
Speaker 1: I knew she was, you know, fundraising, trying to get
Speaker 1: money together to create an Aboriginal women's birthing space up
Speaker 1: on her on Country, back on you and Country. So
Speaker 1: I just reached out and said, cis this is what
Speaker 1: I need to do. Can you support me?
Speaker 4: Like I want? I need support.
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm going to do it either way.
Speaker 4: I was like, but I want that.
Speaker 1: Cultural safety and that support that I know you can provided.
Speaker 1: I haven't just been led to you for no reason.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm listening and you've come into my life
Speaker 1: and I need you in that space. I need you
Speaker 1: to hold be that container for me during that during
Speaker 1: that time. And she just said, yeah, like I have
Speaker 1: to listen as well, and that's us Like it's that,
Speaker 1: like I said, that listening to what you're being told,
Speaker 1: being so in tuned with yourself, that you are fully
Speaker 1: connected to mother and the instructions that you receive, you're
Speaker 1: hearing without even doing.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, just being one hundred percent confident in who I
Speaker 1: am and where I come from. It was it was
Speaker 1: going to happen this, Like I don't know how to
Speaker 1: explain it. I just there was a bigger driving force
Speaker 1: behind it than my will power. And like I said,
Speaker 1: I truly believe it. It's the strength of those old
Speaker 1: people that I carry, pushing me and getting me. And
Speaker 1: you know, we're all walking and living the dreams that
Speaker 1: they had for us. And that's just another dream that
Speaker 1: they had that that practice and those ways would continue on.
Speaker 1: And you know that's me rewriting that story for now.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I don't know say about that. I just
Speaker 1: it still blows me away, you know, it still puts
Speaker 1: me in puts me in this place of just being
Speaker 1: in awe and not of myself, but what I was
Speaker 1: able to, what I was able to do, you know,
Speaker 1: And like I said, it wasn't even about me. It
Speaker 1: was about those future generations and those young girls that have.
Speaker 4: All the control and all that power.
Speaker 1: Taken from them in that birthing and pregnancy space from
Speaker 1: the beginning of even thinking about creating your own family.
Speaker 1: You know, you're just so influenced and it's such a
Speaker 1: fear based system that works perfectly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of just it's just a beautiful reminder.
Speaker 2: It makes me wonder about what would be possible for
Speaker 2: us if we spent more time doing what you said
Speaker 2: earlier about nurturing self, to get that sense of clarity,
Speaker 2: to trust ourselves and to build self trust and self
Speaker 2: compassion as black people and black followers. Just kind of
Speaker 2: makes you think what else is possible if we get
Speaker 2: clear with ourselves and allow that space for our ancestors
Speaker 2: to just be there. You know, I often call and
Speaker 2: speak to them in a time of crisis instead of
Speaker 2: just being with them and guiding and so just yeah,
Speaker 2: for me, it's just a stark reminder of how do
Speaker 2: we get more in tune and more into that space?
Speaker 1: Look sis in one hundred percent, and you know, for
Speaker 1: this story to be successful, you know, for other women
Speaker 1: in this today, you know, I could justify to that
Speaker 1: I had Nullah.
Speaker 4: I did it on country.
Speaker 1: I've shared that experience after Nullah, I had another child,
Speaker 1: and I took my experience and my space that I
Speaker 1: had out on country into the hospital system and had
Speaker 1: an even more glorious birth because I walked into that
Speaker 1: Western system carrying all the strength, all the control, and
Speaker 1: all the power and birth on birth my way in
Speaker 1: that space, in full control and made that Western system
Speaker 1: sit and be quite why I held that space for
Speaker 1: myself with my family, and I guess you're if you're
Speaker 1: confident in enough in yourself and believe in yourself enough
Speaker 1: and know yourself that you can take a birth in
Speaker 1: your country experience in the any setting and own that space.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, that's so powerful, so powerful to hear, because
Speaker 2: you're right, like I think the healthcare system generally, in
Speaker 2: all the work that we do in looking at racism
Speaker 2: in hospitals and especially the female gendered experience, is that
Speaker 2: you know, healthcare systems are the only place where it's
Speaker 2: about speed and efficiency. It's not a deep, it's not
Speaker 2: a intentional loving black pro black space. And so yeah,
Speaker 2: to hear you have gone through this kind of transformative experience,
Speaker 2: bring all of that power, all of that strength, all
Speaker 2: of that beauty, all of that knowledge back into the
Speaker 2: healthcare system to reclaim it and that it's on your
Speaker 2: terms is truly powerful and there's probably a lot of women,
Speaker 2: you know, not just black followers or sisters that you know,
Speaker 2: do you just have their rights taken away, especially when
Speaker 2: giving birth. And so how do we make this process
Speaker 2: more person centered and more individualized for the individual to decide,
Speaker 2: because there's no one way, there's no blanket rule approach.
Speaker 2: But it seems as though when women go in for
Speaker 2: these these for labor and leading up to labor, we're
Speaker 2: just kind of conditioned, indoctrinated, or led to believe that
Speaker 2: this is the blueprint, this is how it has to
Speaker 2: be done, and if we deviate from that, that we're
Speaker 2: not doing it right. So yeah, I love I love
Speaker 2: hearing this yard and speaking truth to power here and that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: what a reminder for all people who are experiencing this
Speaker 2: to really, like you say, just trust yourself.
Speaker 4: Trust yourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think in the process of life, since
Speaker 1: we forget to be still, and that's the number one
Speaker 1: right you need to sit, be still and listen, and
Speaker 1: in the birthing space, the exact same sit and be still,
Speaker 1: listen and then carry that confidence with you. You know,
Speaker 1: it's such a fear driven space and that comes down
Speaker 1: to once again that colonization that control. If you can,
Speaker 1: if you can manage to get in tune with yourself
Speaker 1: and really listen and know and be confident in the
Speaker 1: fact that you can do it. Your body is designed
Speaker 1: and mechanically to do this, you know, without any issues,
Speaker 1: and carry that that strength. Yeah, reach out to reach
Speaker 1: out to women who have had great experiences. You know,
Speaker 1: we always hear about the horror stories and what goes
Speaker 1: wrong and and how horrible this pregnancy was and how
Speaker 1: sick I was in this pregnancy. But you know, where's
Speaker 1: the talk up and the build up from the sisters saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I had a great experience during this pregnancy
Speaker 1: or you know what, I walked into that space and
Speaker 1: I birth so calmly, like, where are the build up stories?
Speaker 1: Where are the sisters picking up other sisters and you know,
Speaker 1: really cheering on other sister girls for wins, not just
Speaker 1: that you know, sharing that trauma and sharing those those
Speaker 1: negative stories build each other up. And the only way
Speaker 1: around it is to do it for ourselves. This mom
Speaker 1: know how to take care of moment. It's time that
Speaker 1: we do. We're not in competition with one another. Share
Speaker 1: the beauty of sisterhood with one another because it's the
Speaker 1: way forward for our sister girls, right.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and just how grateful we are for you sharing
Speaker 2: this story is a very personal and sacred one, but
Speaker 2: really helping us all understand, like you say, what we've
Speaker 2: always known and what we've always done, and just the
Speaker 2: power of the gift and the medicine that is your
Speaker 2: story and sharing this for other women is really really special.
Speaker 2: So I thank you so much. I mean, can I
Speaker 2: ask you, maybe this is a selfish question because of
Speaker 2: where I'm at in my journey the labor process. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't obviously I know that that clip is a
Speaker 2: thirteen minute clip and that wasn't the full labor experience,
Speaker 2: but the poise and the grace and you know, you
Speaker 2: were one there with your breath, and you know, it
Speaker 2: seems to me that, yeah, watching you just do what
Speaker 2: your body had to be done because you had that
Speaker 2: sense of expansiveness of knowing and being okay in your skin,
Speaker 2: I mean, was truly something so powerful to watch. But
Speaker 2: if we flip to motherhood and post labor, you know,
Speaker 2: I'd really like to know, you know, what what aspects
Speaker 2: of motherhood do you find the most fulfilling and you know,
Speaker 2: how has it challenged and shaped you as well? Like
Speaker 2: what has been the sort of what lessons has becoming
Speaker 2: a mother meant for you?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Look, I guess I'll start with the biggest lesson is.
Speaker 1: I guess being programmed in my upbringing that the children
Speaker 1: you love, the children the same, They all get the same,
Speaker 1: there's no favoritism. But you know, it's taken me. My
Speaker 1: oldest is fifteen and a half, and it's taken me,
Speaker 1: you know, the last fourteen years. About a year ago
Speaker 1: I realized that every child that you have has their
Speaker 1: own individual personality, has their own you know, love needs,
Speaker 1: has their own individual needs and connection needs with you
Speaker 1: as a mother, And so listening to your child, picking
Speaker 1: up on the cues and being present in their needs
Speaker 1: and providing that space with each child as an individual,
Speaker 1: not as a collective, would be the biggest lesson I've
Speaker 1: learned this. Prior to that understanding, I was loving them
Speaker 1: the same. I was giving them the same amount of time.
Speaker 1: I was, you know, giving them the same amount of presents,
Speaker 1: or giving them the same amount of whatever it was,
Speaker 1: and not even acknowledging the fact that this child needs
Speaker 1: this from and this child needs this from me and
Speaker 1: asking them. You know, I did a great activity probe
Speaker 1: year ago with the older children and it was that
Speaker 1: simple love languages quiz on the Internet and I all
Speaker 1: have devices. Sit down, new followers, let's sit down as
Speaker 1: a family on our phones and let's do the love
Speaker 1: languages quiz. And we sat there and Marcus did it.
Speaker 1: I did it, and both Lailah and Zeke did it.
Speaker 1: And wow, like I thought, I knew my kids, man,
Speaker 1: and I was loving them completely wrong, and I was
Speaker 1: loving them selfishly right.
Speaker 4: I was loving them the way I wanted to love them.
Speaker 4: I was loving them.
Speaker 1: The way that I didn't receive love when I was
Speaker 1: that age, or what I wanted at that age, and
Speaker 1: not even considering them as their own, authentic little self
Speaker 1: and what needs they needed from me. And that love
Speaker 1: Languages quiz was amazing. Man, It just wow, blew my
Speaker 1: head off, like just hag them completely wrong. But I
Speaker 1: was coming at that angle of that selfish love right,
Speaker 1: that unconscious, selfish, selfish love, fulfilling those needs that I
Speaker 1: had within myself, healing those wounds within myself about and
Speaker 1: loving them the way I wanted and what I missed
Speaker 1: out on without acknowledging them as their own people. I
Speaker 1: think the greatest the greatest advice again is when you're
Speaker 1: a parent, is that deep listening again, listen to your child,
Speaker 1: be present, watch behaviors. We never spoke, We didn't speak.
Speaker 1: It was all visual. We didn't need to communicate verbally
Speaker 1: because you know, our body language and what we did
Speaker 1: was the way we communicated. And children are so raw
Speaker 1: and real and they really show us the old ways,
Speaker 1: right they in their behavior, in the way they act,
Speaker 1: in the way that they seek love. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: just be present and listening again. It comes down to
Speaker 1: that deep listening. And I'll keep talking about it because
Speaker 1: that is truly what we don't do anymore. We're so
Speaker 1: busy and lost in work and the technology and the devices,
Speaker 1: and you know, we're listening with our eyes twenty four
Speaker 1: to seven. But we need to stop and peel back
Speaker 1: and listen deeply within ourselves and you know, use our
Speaker 1: ears truly.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I don't know if I answered all of that question,
Speaker 4: but where I.
Speaker 2: Went you so did. And as I say, I could
Speaker 2: just listen to you speak about this stuff all day.
Speaker 2: But it's one of those things when you say it,
Speaker 2: it sounds so it's just nice, I think, to be
Speaker 2: reminded that really it is just about stripping us all back,
Speaker 2: getting rid of that ego, getting rid of that being
Speaker 2: told how to do things. And it's just interesting to
Speaker 2: hear that, just like your pregnancy and your labor wasn't
Speaker 2: a one size, that you have continued that approach with
Speaker 2: looking at how you view your children. It's that helistic
Speaker 2: kind of approach, and you know, for children of trauma,
Speaker 2: and you know, for us who have kind of had
Speaker 2: to navigate some of the adversities from our parents, you know,
Speaker 2: it's just so comforting to hear I guess that there
Speaker 2: is a new way for us to love ourselves most importantly,
Speaker 2: as you've said, and then go on to sort of
Speaker 2: emanate that love to our children, and that yeah, we
Speaker 2: don't have to recreate all of these unhelpful patterns that
Speaker 2: we have learned that we can relearn and unlearn, and yeah,
Speaker 2: do things a different way, do things our way. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's just beautiful to hear that, you know that the
Speaker 2: way that our parents would have parented us was just
Speaker 2: so yeah, blanket, blanket approach. So yeah, thank you, I know, and.
Speaker 1: You know what I just want to extend on that too.
Speaker 1: Part of you know, who I am today is acknowledging
Speaker 1: and owning my ship, man like owning ship that I've
Speaker 1: created and owning you know, the behaviors and destruction that
Speaker 1: I've that I've created in the past through you know,
Speaker 1: all the pathways that I took previously, owning that.
Speaker 4: And really really.
Speaker 1: Just being like, you know what, yelp, that was me,
Speaker 1: and I own that and this is me now. Like
Speaker 1: until we can fully sit in and own everything that
Speaker 1: we've done, you're never going to get to a place
Speaker 1: of deep listening because you're still distracting yourself and still, yeah,
Speaker 1: you need to own your ship, like straight up, and.
Speaker 2: Like being like deep listening is getting fucking really honest
Speaker 2: with yourself and it can be really confronting when you're
Speaker 2: left with those shadows and the stuff that people, yeah
Speaker 2: don't necessarily see. You're so right. So I'm saying it's
Speaker 2: such a sounds like such a simple, beautiful, easy process,
Speaker 2: but I can imagine there's lots of setbacks and challenges
Speaker 2: along the way and getting like really reacquainted with ourselves,
Speaker 2: like and you know, making ourselves comfortable in our in
Speaker 2: our shit as well. Like hard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I talk a lot.
Speaker 1: I talk a lot about you know, being strong and
Speaker 1: carrying the strength and being this person. But Sis, we've
Speaker 1: got to just fucking sit there and just I hate
Speaker 1: being strong all the time. Like I want to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1: I want to be in that vulnerable state. And we
Speaker 1: don't allow ourselves or if we do become vulnerable, it's
Speaker 1: an unhealthy place. And you know that's where patterns or
Speaker 1: drug use or alcohol abuse or you know, perpetrators of
Speaker 1: violence find you in those unhealthy, vulnerable places.
Speaker 4: So it's about sitting and.
Speaker 1: Listening, allowing yourself to be vulnerable, not just being that staunch,
Speaker 1: strong person all the time. Go through the motions. If
Speaker 1: you're feeling sad, sit in it, be stealing it, allow
Speaker 1: that time to pass. That's how we heal, and that's
Speaker 1: how we we get at We become you know, strong,
Speaker 1: because we're allowing ourselves to be in a vulnerable place.
Speaker 4: That's healthy. We need we need.
Speaker 1: To and we don't, especially as black women, because of
Speaker 1: those expectations. I was talking about, those family expectations, those
Speaker 1: community expectations, those workplace expectations, you know, the expectations that.
Speaker 4: Your children put on you and so we just go, go, go, go, and.
Speaker 1: Just doesn't matter what happens, we just keep you know,
Speaker 1: we get through it and we.
Speaker 4: Just keep moving forward.
Speaker 1: But we need to sit and be still, allow ourselves
Speaker 1: to be in a healthy, vulnerable place, to go through
Speaker 1: those motions, to sit still through those times, allow them
Speaker 1: to pass in their own time.
Speaker 2: Gosh, I'm getting chills just I'm just like shaking my
Speaker 2: head air high fiving because you're right, I feel you
Speaker 2: on that cis. You know, when we sort of put
Speaker 2: that strong black trope or angry black trope, we're just
Speaker 2: like dehumanizing all of our emotions that we all carry.
Speaker 2: And you know, one of my sort of mantras or
Speaker 2: ways of teaching and working with women in how to
Speaker 2: look after ourselves to care for the collective is, you know,
Speaker 2: how do we just uncomplicate it? You know, just go
Speaker 2: back to what we have always known, that that stillness,
Speaker 2: and you're right, like just being with it, sitting in it,
Speaker 2: not having to have the answers. I think so much
Speaker 2: of this Western way of looking after yourself is actually
Speaker 2: doing It's like you've got to go here, You've got
Speaker 2: to do this, You've got to It's just like uncomplicating it.
Speaker 2: How do we just be with it? How do we
Speaker 2: just sit in it? And so I want to you know,
Speaker 2: my last question and kind of circle back to your
Speaker 2: first point, which is, I mean, obviously I could talk
Speaker 2: to you all day, by the way, but I'm conscious
Speaker 2: that you've got, you know, your own responsibilities. You know,
Speaker 2: how can we truly truly show up for ourselves and
Speaker 2: love and care for ourselves as black women, and show
Speaker 2: ourselves that grace and compassion that we so freely give
Speaker 2: out to others. What does it look like for you personally?
Speaker 2: How do you find time to nurtureself in all of this?
Speaker 4: Ah?
Speaker 1: Yep, So I guess when I am vulnerable, I do
Speaker 1: I do look at myself like that little girl that's crying.
Speaker 1: You know, siss if you were to see a little
Speaker 1: girl crying, a little two year old crying in the
Speaker 1: street and alone, what would you do. What's the first
Speaker 1: thing you would do for that little girl?
Speaker 2: Check in, go, give a hug, check their rye.
Speaker 4: That's right. You would hold her tied and just reassure
Speaker 4: her that she's safe.
Speaker 1: And so that I'm feeling vulnerable, I hold on to
Speaker 1: myself that little girl inside of me and say, you
Speaker 1: know what, you are safe, Sis, it's okay, and comfort her.
Speaker 1: That's where I start. That's where I start that you know,
Speaker 1: now that I am a grown up, now that I
Speaker 1: am in this big world, I take myself from the
Speaker 1: business and I go and sit and be still with mother.
Speaker 1: I go to the river, or I go to a
Speaker 1: space that's in the bush, or even if you're in
Speaker 1: the city, you can go to a park and take
Speaker 1: your shoes off and plant your feet in mother, you know,
Speaker 1: wiggle your toes in mother and give her everything. That's
Speaker 1: what she's therefore give her, give her all of those
Speaker 1: things that you're carrying, because she will take them. So yes,
Speaker 1: I go and be in nature when I can. Like
Speaker 1: I said, for those that don't have the luxury of
Speaker 1: being in the bush like me, go to a park,
Speaker 1: Go put your feet in that dirt and give mother
Speaker 1: your worries. Let mother comfort you and see yourself as
Speaker 1: that little person. Then comfort yourself. But yeah, that you know,
Speaker 1: that's what I do.
Speaker 4: Sis.
Speaker 2: It's such a beautiful thing to share because you're right
Speaker 2: inside of us, is yeah, our inner children. I often
Speaker 2: think about that. There's probably an angry teenager in there,
Speaker 2: there's all these different shadows and parts and how do
Speaker 2: we extend it love, and how do we find time
Speaker 2: to do that by you know when we say connecting
Speaker 2: on country, Country is available everywhere, and we can show
Speaker 2: it love and tenderness and be gentle and patient with
Speaker 2: it at any time. Yeah, gosh, you are just yeah,
Speaker 2: a formidable worrier, mother, sister, cultural woman. And yeah, I
Speaker 2: actually feel even just sitting in this conversation with you,
Speaker 2: I feel a sense of calmness which has come over
Speaker 2: me from your presence. So I just want to say
Speaker 2: thank you for that and for offering up glimmers of
Speaker 2: your personal story and in sharing it for other women
Speaker 2: and mothers who were thinking about birthing on country. But
Speaker 2: also more importantly, the take home for me is just
Speaker 2: how do we build in a bit of time to
Speaker 2: get more intentional with ourselves and to begin to trust
Speaker 2: and love ourselves and honor our knowing, value our knowing,
Speaker 2: create space for our knowing, and take action on our
Speaker 2: knowing too.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, welcome sissy, And you know, I
Speaker 1: just I just want to touch again. Like there aren't books, No,
Speaker 1: it's written in our DNA, It's imprinted you know, listen
Speaker 1: and read it from within there, and we all carry
Speaker 1: it as you know, First Nations people, Black followers, we have.
Speaker 4: It written in our day. Yeah, look inside yourself and
Speaker 4: read the story. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wow, you're right. We've got this ancient sacred compass and
Speaker 2: our ancestors are always guiding. I think we I think
Speaker 2: we all sort of fall into the wire of our
Speaker 2: proximity to whiteness and our proximity to white systems and ways.
Speaker 2: But it's returning, it's returning back, and I think we're
Speaker 2: all sort of going through this shifting of consciousness and
Speaker 2: ideas and stories like this and aboriginal knowledge is what
Speaker 2: is going to set us all free in a way,
Speaker 2: you know. So Yeah, I can't thank you enough. I
Speaker 2: feel like I could sit here and talk to you
Speaker 2: for hours. I just want to say, from the bottom
Speaker 2: of my heart, thank you so much for being so
Speaker 2: generous and sharing. And it would be lovely to have
Speaker 2: you back on to continue this yarn at some stage.
Speaker 1: Oh look, Sissy, you're welcome, like big love to you. Hey,
Speaker 1: And yeah, I could talk all day two, trust me,
Speaker 1: I never shut up. But you know what, that's why
Speaker 1: I walk this world. I'm a voice and you know,
Speaker 1: I possess a voice that demands attention and I will
Speaker 1: continue to do that. And you know, I hope that
Speaker 1: you know, once my voice is heard, it gives other
Speaker 1: women the power to have also a voice that demands
Speaker 1: attention and to be heard. And so thanks for holding
Speaker 1: this space, Sissy and invited me on. And whenever you
Speaker 1: want a yarn, reach out, and whenever you want me
Speaker 1: back on here, reach out. And you know, if I'm
Speaker 1: more about there, I want to have yarns about certain topics,
Speaker 1: reach out to Caroline, Sissy girl there, and you know
Speaker 1: we'll make it happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely I would love to. I would
Speaker 2: love I know, I know our paths will cross formally
Speaker 2: and informally, and yeah, I'll definitely be hitting you up
Speaker 2: for a yarn or two as I navigate this journey.
Speaker 2: But just yeah, I would love to open up a
Speaker 2: space when it felt right to be able to have
Speaker 2: these yarns with you, because yeah, we're really returning back
Speaker 2: to and yeah, I'm so grateful for your knowledge and
Speaker 2: time today and your love and energy, like it's just beautiful.
Speaker 2: So thank you, Sis, thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 2: You mob if you are vibing this season of yarning up,
Speaker 2: then please head over to Apple, Spotify, or wherever you
Speaker 2: get your podcasts from to show us some love, rate,
Speaker 2: and review. Alternatively, you can get in contact and give
Speaker 2: us some feedback by visiting www. Dot carolinecow dot com,
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