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Speaker 1: Parential Guidance Season three, Episode two on Monday Night, big

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Speaker 1: conversations around peer pressure and consent and some things were

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Speaker 1: said that need to be discussed today. Mark and Tammy

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Speaker 1: are upfront parents. There were some big reactions in the

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Speaker 1: room to a few things. That's what we're going to

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Speaker 1: talk about today on the podcast Today and Welcome. This

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Speaker 1: is the Happy Families podcast reparenting solutions every day, Australia's

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Speaker 1: most downloaded parenting podcast. We are Justin and Kylie Coulson.

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Speaker 1: Mark and Tammy are our upfront parents in season three.

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Speaker 2: Upfront parenting is all about respect underpinning that is, having

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Speaker 2: realistic expectations.

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Speaker 1: They started off so well, we need to talk about

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Speaker 1: what they started off with. And then the unexpected turn.

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Speaker 2: You sent a naked photo online.

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Speaker 3: That's weird, them notfy the police.

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Speaker 2: The thing at the moment that we're noticing is the

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Speaker 2: girls shorts have gotten shorter and shorter and shorter. I'm

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Speaker 2: saying to our boys, don't come home with the girls

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Speaker 2: with the short shorts. I don't want to be friends

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Speaker 2: with the mother in law. Do you let somebody take

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Speaker 2: a naked photo of you?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 2: No, you're so all of this can go away. If

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Speaker 2: you don't allow somebody to take a message of you.

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Speaker 4: I know that you want to focus on the nudes.

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Speaker 1: Well we need to. We can we say that a

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Speaker 1: different way. That just makes me feel uncomfortable the way

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Speaker 1: that you said that.

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Speaker 4: I'm so sorry, that's not what I mean.

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Speaker 1: No, I know. We should also highlight today's conversation, maybe

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Speaker 1: for mature audiences, if you've got young kids listening. We

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Speaker 1: are going to be talking about some of these topics

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Speaker 1: and they are not necessarily for younger years. Okay, just

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Speaker 1: claiming out of the way, should.

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Speaker 4: I say, I know you want to have the converse

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Speaker 4: around consent and sending news.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a much better way to say it.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, I feel But we have to talk about

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Speaker 4: Tammy's comment around short shorts and the mother in law.

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're going to do that second. Let's talk about

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Speaker 1: the nude stuff first, and the safe sexting or whether

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Speaker 1: or not you can send anything via text message and

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Speaker 1: not have negative ramifications. That's where we need to start.

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Speaker 4: So my question for you is how prevalent is this, like,

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Speaker 4: how many girls are actually sending news?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the short answer is, we don't know there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of different organizations, both here and OFCAS that

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Speaker 1: have been doing some research on this. Depending on who

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Speaker 1: you ask and how you ask it, you get numbers

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Speaker 1: anywhere between ten percent and like forty seven to fifty

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Speaker 1: ish percent, which I mean there's an enormous amount of

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Speaker 1: variation there. It depends on the I'm going to get

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Speaker 1: technical for a sec, depends on the sampling methodology, who's

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Speaker 1: answering the questions, why they're answering it, and what the

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Speaker 1: questions are. So I think the most important thing to

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Speaker 1: highlight is that it is happening. That is, it is

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Speaker 1: now considered in many areas a normal part of dating

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Speaker 1: and social development that kids will at some point, teenagers

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Speaker 1: will at some point send images of themselves that could

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Speaker 1: be concerning if they are viewed by somebody other than

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Speaker 1: the intended recipient, or that could be concerning if the

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Speaker 1: relationship breaks down, which in a huge majority of cases

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Speaker 1: it will because they're teenagers and this stuff happens.

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Speaker 4: So I find this really curious because growing up, we

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Speaker 4: obviously didn't grow up with mobile phones, and I remember vividly,

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Speaker 4: probably being about ten and catching up with the neighborhood

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Speaker 4: kids and one of the neighborhood boys and I were

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Speaker 4: downstairs in his garage and he was like, I'll show

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Speaker 4: you mine if you show me yours. That kind of conversation, right.

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Speaker 1: But this is the same thing. It's just on technology.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, But what I was about to say is that

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Speaker 4: is the one and only time that I ever had

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Speaker 4: that conversation with someone at a time where I would

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Speaker 4: suggest developmentally curious and appropriate. But it never happened once

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Speaker 4: in my dating life did anyone ever ask to see

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Speaker 4: me naked?

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Speaker 5: Like?

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Speaker 4: How is it become so normalized because it's a digital

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Speaker 4: image when it would never in the past have been

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Speaker 4: asked for the majority of us to share such explicit

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Speaker 4: content in real life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's extraordinary. Partly this comes down to the pornification

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Speaker 1: of our world. So I would say that since the seventies,

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Speaker 1: but especially since the rise of the Internet. And this

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Speaker 1: is a really provocative thing to say, but there's quite

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Speaker 1: a bit of evidence to support this. The pornography industry

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Speaker 1: is response for a huge amount of the technological advancements

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Speaker 1: that have occurred in terms of the Internet. In fact,

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Speaker 1: there is a quote that I'm using in my upcoming

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Speaker 1: book about raising boys. I can't remember who said it. Now,

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Speaker 1: I wasn't expecting us to go down this path, but

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Speaker 1: this person basically said the Internet was made for pornography.

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Speaker 1: And so when you've got all these kids who are

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Speaker 1: seeing this stuff and then you take away inhibitions, you've

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Speaker 1: got this sense that because there's a screen and we're

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Speaker 1: not in one another's space, people are a lot less

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Speaker 1: inhibited in terms of what they say. The flirting gets

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Speaker 1: hotter and hotter. You feel like you're in the privacy

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Speaker 1: of your bedroom. You feel like it's only you and

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Speaker 1: that other person, and so it has your word here

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Speaker 1: is centrally important. It has become normalized. A huge percentage

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Speaker 1: of kids think that it is appropriate to ask for

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Speaker 1: solicit nude images from somebody else, and overwhelmingly now girls

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Speaker 1: do ask for boys to send things through, but not

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Speaker 1: very often in comparison, Again, a little bit of research.

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Speaker 1: I don't think that all the data we've got is

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Speaker 1: trustworthy at all, but the research is pretty clear that

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Speaker 1: it's the guys who are doing the asking, not the girls.

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Speaker 1: Girls aren't that interested in guys junk guys.

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Speaker 4: I was about to say that pretty.

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Speaker 1: Fascinating, pretty fascinated by what's going on with girls and boys.

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Speaker 1: I have always been seen as the accelerator rather than

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Speaker 1: the break. That's the way it's always been from a

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Speaker 1: sexual point of view.

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Speaker 4: So I guess, if we wanted to get really practical

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Speaker 4: for a minute, what's the communication look like leading up

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Speaker 4: to a photo like this being shared.

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Speaker 1: This is a really hard thing to talk about, and

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Speaker 1: I'm really disappointed by it. So I've spoken to some

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Speaker 1: girls and some guys who admitted the same that sometimes

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Speaker 1: their first interaction online will be, hey, will you send

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Speaker 1: me a photo? Like there's this instant push, there's almost

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Speaker 1: like an expectation, and if you won't, then I'm not

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Speaker 1: interested in you. I did speak to one teenage girl

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Speaker 1: a number of years ago when I was writing my

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Speaker 1: book about raising teen girls. She said that she was

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Speaker 1: with some friends in the mall or in the shops,

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Speaker 1: or whatever you want to call it, and another group

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Speaker 1: of friends came over. There was one person in each

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Speaker 1: group that knew each other, but all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: you've gone from four or five kids to about ten

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Speaker 1: or twelve kids who were all suddenly getting to know

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Speaker 1: each other. This girl swapped Instagram details with one of

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Speaker 1: the guys who was chatty and seemed like a nice guy.

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Speaker 1: And then she got a text message from dad, Hey,

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Speaker 1: I'm here at the shop, so I'm ready to pick

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Speaker 1: you up. Let's go. By the time she'd gotten in

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Speaker 1: the car, she got a ping from this guy on Instagram,

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Speaker 1: and literally the first thing he wanted to know was

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Speaker 1: will you send me a hot pick? Like they'd known

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Speaker 1: each other for about ten minutes, talked for about three minutes,

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Speaker 1: and he was soliciting. So is that normal? I don't

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Speaker 1: think so. I actually don't think so. But it is

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Speaker 1: an example of what can happen in many situations in

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Speaker 1: terms of the general communication leading up to a photo

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Speaker 1: like this being shared. If it's part of a positive relationship,

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Speaker 1: that is, a couple are in a consenting, happy, no

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Speaker 1: peer pressure kind of relationship, then they start to flirt

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Speaker 1: with each other and over hopefully in extended period of time,

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Speaker 1: this becomes part of their dating and courtship behavior. I'm

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Speaker 1: really concerned about it. I don't think it's safe behavior

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Speaker 1: at all. I would, well, we do actively completely in

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Speaker 1: every way discourage our children from I just think that

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Speaker 1: it's crazy. I think it's crazy behavior that you would

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Speaker 1: send an image like that to somebody that you're not

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Speaker 1: in a guaranteed, safe, committed relationship too, But we can

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Speaker 1: talk about that more. But what also happens, and too

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Speaker 1: many girls have told me stories like this, is that

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Speaker 1: they'll get a seemingly safe conversation starter with somebody that

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Speaker 1: they know, somebody that they think they trust, and over

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Speaker 1: a period of five minutes, ten minutes, fifty minutes, two

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Speaker 1: and a half hours, the conversation will become increasingly sexually focused,

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Speaker 1: and then he'll start to listen and say, hey, what

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Speaker 1: are you wearing, what's underneath it? What can you send me?

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Speaker 1: That kind of stuff. These conversations are happening way more,

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Speaker 1: way more than parents want to believe. And if we

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Speaker 1: are not having conversations about consent and about peer pressure,

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Speaker 1: especially across gender peer pressure or between gender peer pressure,

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Speaker 1: then our children, especially especially our daughters, could be at risk.

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Speaker 4: You had that conversation with Dan on this episode about

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Speaker 4: this whole thing, and you asked him this question.

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Speaker 6: Our kids are feeling the peer pressure to sext, Dan.

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Speaker 4: What is it with sexting?

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Speaker 5: This has just become normalized. It's quite extraordinary how many

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Speaker 5: young people are aware of sexting in nudes and again

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Speaker 5: late primary into year seven, like this is when this

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Speaker 5: is rife and starts happening a lot. Boys know there's

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Speaker 5: more pressure on girls to share nudes, and there's more

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Speaker 5: shame when they do.

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Speaker 1: Is there such a thing as safe sexting?

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Speaker 5: In your opinion, I don't believe there is. I think

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Speaker 5: we do have to hold the line on that for

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Speaker 5: the safety of everybody.

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Speaker 4: Do you agree with Dan on this any other thing?

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Speaker 1: Let's play back what Courtney said.

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Speaker 7: I would never blame a girl for having her photo shit.

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Speaker 7: I have had a naked photo of me leaked before.

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Speaker 7: I've had been in that circumstance before I thought I

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Speaker 7: could trust someone. I have told our boys a lot

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Speaker 7: about my past, including that event. I have told them

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Speaker 7: how I feel and why you shouldn't be doing that

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Speaker 7: to women.

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Speaker 1: So here we have a situation where we've got a

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Speaker 1: mum on the show who's saying I shared some images

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Speaker 1: with somebody in a trusting relationship and those images got

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Speaker 1: out that person was not trustworthy and what a steep

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Speaker 1: price to pay? What a really steep price to pay. So,

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Speaker 1: in answer to your question, I just think this is

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Speaker 1: a really really I don't think there's such a thing

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Speaker 1: as safe sexting. Dan Prince Pay is absolutely right here.

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Speaker 1: When you send an image, you lose control of what

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Speaker 1: happens to that image, full stop, end of story. Once

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Speaker 1: it's on somebody else's device, it could be hacked, it

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Speaker 1: could be shared, it could be shown to somebody else,

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Speaker 1: it could be screenshotted. There is no such thing as

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Speaker 1: safe sexting. And I really believe that conversation needs to

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Speaker 1: happen with our kids. We're going to be back after

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Speaker 1: break to talk about that second big issue courtesy of Tammy.

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Speaker 2: Don't come home with the girls with the short shots?

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Speaker 1: Okay, Kylie, there was a really big bomb that was dropped,

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Speaker 1: I guess by our upfront parents, Mark and Tammy. Tammy

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Speaker 1: said something about short shorts that got everybody hot on

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Speaker 1: the collar.

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Speaker 3: What was the short shorts thing?

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Speaker 4: What was that?

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Speaker 2: There we go, I'm not judging the girl with the

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Speaker 2: short shorts. I'm judging the girl's mum.

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Speaker 3: You were very judgmental there, and because you have all

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Speaker 3: boys as well.

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Speaker 8: I think girls should be able to wear whatever they want.

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Speaker 4: I really do.

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Speaker 8: But I do think that there's an age as well

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Speaker 8: where it's appropriate. A twelve year old in a g

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Speaker 8: string on a beach makes it very difficult for my

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Speaker 8: husband to walk down comfortably.

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Speaker 3: So women need to dress appropriately so that Nathan feels comfortable.

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Speaker 8: Like, how do you feel about that?

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Speaker 3: I'm not really thinking is my husband looking at that?

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Speaker 3: I just don't think that we should be putting down women?

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Speaker 8: Can we also notice the theme in all of this

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Speaker 8: that we've turned the focus to the girls.

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Speaker 5: There's always concerned for me that it can suggest that

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Speaker 5: someone had it coming to them or they should. That's

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Speaker 5: a type of person that we shouldn't respect as much

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Speaker 5: as someone fully clothed, right. I think we have to

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Speaker 5: address that that it shouldn't change how we relate to

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Speaker 5: the respect and decency and care that that person is owed.

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Speaker 4: I want to say ouch in today's day and age,

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Speaker 4: I love this show. I don't know if Tammy really

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Speaker 4: thought through her comments or whether or not the fact

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Speaker 4: that they are upfront about everything. Yes, she does let

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Speaker 4: it all out.

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Speaker 1: So I want to I want to come to Tammy's

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Speaker 1: defense for just a moment, and I want to do

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Speaker 1: it very carefully and delicately. Tammy's not alone in holding

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Speaker 1: and saying beliefs along these lines, and I really want to.

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Speaker 4: Well, it might not be short shorts. Maybe it's tattoos,

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Speaker 4: maybe it's multiple earrings. Like most people have a value

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Speaker 4: system that they're working from, that's exactly Garvin's, the choices

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Speaker 4: that they make.

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Speaker 1: And the judgments that they make of other people. Yes,

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Speaker 1: and so let's let's just highlight a couple of things

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Speaker 1: that matter. Your values. You have every right to defend them.

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Speaker 1: You have every right to share them as Tammy did,

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Speaker 1: and live them and to live them and to have

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Speaker 1: healthy and appropriate expectations around that. Now, one of the

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Speaker 1: main reasons that people get upset about these kinds of comments,

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Speaker 1: and we saw it with this as well.

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Speaker 8: A twelve year old in a g stree on a

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Speaker 8: beach makes it very difficult for my husband to walk

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Speaker 8: down comfortably.

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Speaker 1: One of the issues that we have with these kinds

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Speaker 1: of scenarios is that if something harmful happens to somebody,

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Speaker 1: usually a female, then we step into a victim blaming scenario.

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Speaker 1: So I just want to step away from the harm situation.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, who knows, maybe I'm going to throw

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Speaker 1: myself into the hot water with everybody else. But this

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Speaker 1: conversation comes up all the time, like what's appropriate to

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Speaker 1: wear when you're at the water park with the kids. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you're in the kiddies area. You're not at a

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Speaker 1: water park for adults. You're in a kid's water park.

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Speaker 1: What's appropriate to wear and what's not? Or what's appropriate

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Speaker 1: to wear at the beach and what's not? What are

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Speaker 1: our public decency standards? And every now and again, a

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Speaker 1: middle aged man or a boomer bloke, we'll say, I

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Speaker 1: don't feel like I'm comfortable walking down the beach because

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Speaker 1: all I can see is backsides and boobs everywhere. And

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Speaker 1: what that person's really expressed is I have certain values

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Speaker 1: and expectations around what people will wear in public, and

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Speaker 1: this is inconsistent with my values. They say it clumsily,

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Speaker 1: they say it in a way that throws shade and

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Speaker 1: a whole lot more at the people who they are

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Speaker 1: disapproving of, and it does turn into a massive culture war.

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Speaker 1: Here's my take on this. You can wear whatever you want,

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Speaker 1: but we don't live in a perfect world. And because

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Speaker 1: people do have different values in different standards, there are

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Speaker 1: going to be some people who will say things that

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Speaker 1: you might consider to be inconsiderate and they think are

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Speaker 1: completely justified and appropriate.

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Speaker 4: You don't get to choose other people's responses to our

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Speaker 4: actions or to how we choose to live our lives.

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Speaker 4: We don't actually get a choice in.

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Speaker 1: Terms of their values. Now, here's what I will say,

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Speaker 1: and this is where it gets into the harm that's done.

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Speaker 1: What you're wearing and where you are and what you're

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Speaker 1: doing has no impact whatsoever on whether or not somebody

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Speaker 1: is going to choose to do the wrong thing. That is,

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Speaker 1: people who commit assaults, people who do the wrong thing,

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Speaker 1: the blame is on them. So if you are wearing

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Speaker 1: next to nothing, or if you are wearing full winter

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Speaker 1: gear and trench coats, unfortunately, there are bad actors in

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Speaker 1: this world who will stare at you and who will

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Speaker 1: even assault you. And by the same token, when you

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Speaker 1: and I were talking about this earlier, you made a

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Speaker 1: really important point that's worth highlighting.

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Speaker 4: There are plenty of men out there who get themselves

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Speaker 4: in a position where both of you are naked and

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Speaker 4: you want to go further and the woman says no,

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Speaker 4: like in that instance.

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Speaker 1: And there are plenty of guys will say okay, a.

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Speaker 4: Respectful man who says, okay, this is really hard.

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Speaker 1: But okay, yeah, yeah, the break has been applied. You're

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Speaker 1: not cool with where we are, we're going to sit.

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Speaker 4: It has nothing to do with what you're wearing and

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Speaker 4: everything to do with that person's heart and the condition

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 1: So this is the consent conversation, and I think we

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Speaker 1: need to disentangle the consent conversation from what Tammy has

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Speaker 1: said when it comes to the clothes that you wear.

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Speaker 1: I think that it's appropriate to teach our children to

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Speaker 1: be considerate of the context, and in certain contexts, some

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Speaker 1: clothing is far more acceptable, or perhaps a little less

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Speaker 1: acceptable than in other contexts. Now, if you want to

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Speaker 1: go and not worry about being considerate about what others think,

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Speaker 1: and you just want to do you you want to

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Speaker 1: wear what you want to wear, then that is that's

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Speaker 1: totally your call.

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Speaker 4: But you also can't be surprised that you're going to

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Speaker 4: ruffle feathers along the way.

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Speaker 1: My point exactly, is it right? I'm not going to

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Speaker 1: get involved in that. People have their values, people have

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Speaker 1: their standards. We live in a world that is not perfect.

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Speaker 4: It's not utopia.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you every much, so is Mark?

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Speaker 4: Sorry?

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Speaker 1: Was Tammy right to say what she said? Well, well,

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Speaker 1: these are her values and she has every right to them,

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Speaker 1: and there are many many people who will agree with her,

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Speaker 1: and I think that she should be supported for that,

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Speaker 1: And if that's the way that she feels, then more

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Speaker 1: power to her. And if Nathan and Joanne would really

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Speaker 1: prefer that Nathan isn't exposed to butts and boobs as

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Speaker 1: he walks along the Esplanharde, then they have every right

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Speaker 1: to feel that way. But if somebody walks past, I

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Speaker 1: don't think that it's appropriate that they start passing judgment,

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Speaker 1: making noises and telling people to cover up, which they're not,

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Speaker 1: by the way, just in their defense, they're not doing that.

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Speaker 4: I think ultimately, each of us have our own set

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Speaker 4: of standards, our own set of values that we want

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Speaker 4: to live our lives. But we can't expect that other

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Speaker 4: people are going to uphold those standards in values. That's

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Speaker 4: our responsibility because they're ours. We own them, and we

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Speaker 4: make choices about how we choose to live that. So

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Speaker 4: if I feel uncomfortable walking down to the beach because

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Speaker 4: there is so much exposed skin that leaves me feeling uncomfortable,

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Speaker 4: then I actually have to rethink about whether or not

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Speaker 4: that's where I want to spend my time.

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Speaker 1: I'll find a different beach, right, like, everybody at that

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Speaker 1: beach dresses like that. But maybe there's a we live

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Speaker 1: on the Sunshine Coast. There are some beaches where there's

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Speaker 1: nobody on the beach. You and I could go for

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Speaker 1: a twenty minute walk and almost see nobody. And then

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Speaker 1: there are other beaches where you are guaranteed to see

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Speaker 1: a whole lot of flesh. It's just that's where the

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Speaker 1: population is and that's where people go and that's what

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Speaker 1: they wear. So consider the context, but also consider your

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Speaker 1: own decisions, like there's a level of personal responsibility here.

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Speaker 1: The take home message from this, really getting back to

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Speaker 1: consent is don't assault people, right, Like, listen to what

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Speaker 1: people say. If someone says no, then they mean no.

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Speaker 1: And there's that corfee that take hover okay, and there's

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Speaker 1: something the safe sex thing. There's just no oh, there's

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Speaker 1: like there's so many stories about women who go for

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Speaker 1: a jog and there and they're assaulted and it's like, no,

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Speaker 1: the guy isn't the wrong. She should be allowed to

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Speaker 1: that woman should be allowed to run at five in

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Speaker 1: the morning or seven at night, and she should be safe.

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Speaker 1: It's just not a that we have men who don't

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Speaker 1: get it, or the wolf whistle or the cat call

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Just guys, stop it. Just I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why this is so hard. Stop it.

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Speaker 1: It's not okay. Be a good person, be a bonus,

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Speaker 1: add value to the lives of people. Stop just stop

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Speaker 1: this appalling behavior. I think it was a great episode.

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Speaker 1: I think it was a great show on Monday night.

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Speaker 1: We're back on Monday again, seven point thirty nine and nine.

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Speaker 6: Now with this next time, four new parents in styles

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Speaker 6: are having the hard conversations Australia needs to have about

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Speaker 6: forty inach, pillars and botok is the.

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Speaker 4: Norm these days.

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Speaker 6: We confront to generations worrying obsession.

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Speaker 3: At school needs to be riding on the walls about

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Speaker 3: mummy's leg.

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Speaker 1: This is, for me, an area that requires immediate.

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Speaker 6: Intervention and we are parents with the tools to navigate

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Speaker 6: their way through.

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Speaker 3: Guys, I actually think you look pretty good for your age.

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Speaker 8: If I want my children to believe that they're perfect,

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Speaker 8: then I need to reflect that in my behavior.

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Speaker 1: Cannot wait for Monday Night. Oh gosh, I love this show.

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Speaker 1: I love this show so much. The Happy Families podcast

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Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. Craig Bruce

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Speaker 1: is our executive producer during the parental guidance weeks, and

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Speaker 1: we have additional support from Mimhammond's. If you would like

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Speaker 1: more information and resources to make your family happier, please

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Speaker 1: visit us at happyfamilies dot com, dot a