Speaker 1: On the tenth of October twenty and twenty two, a
Speaker 1: thirty three year old neonatal nurse was on trial. She
Speaker 1: was charged with seven counts of murder and ten cases
Speaker 1: of attempted murder, all which took place at the Countess
Speaker 1: of Chester Hospital between twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen. The
Speaker 1: magnitude of this story cannot be understated. The victims were
Speaker 1: just babies. This is the case of Britain's most prolific
Speaker 1: female child serial killer, Lucy let Be. It's just a
Speaker 1: disgusting story, it really is.
Speaker 2: I'm sure you'll tell it well, but I know the
Speaker 2: case and it's absolutely horrific.
Speaker 1: You're ready. Not really, Oh but I.
Speaker 2: Was getting some kisses on my knee from Diggs just then,
Speaker 2: so that's going to notice.
Speaker 1: He knows that we're going to need some support through
Speaker 1: this year. Yeah. Absolutely. Hey there, everybody, welcome to not
Speaker 1: Another Crime podcast. I'm Georgia LUs, I'm Sammy Peterson. I'm
Speaker 1: a journalist. I am not, but you are.
Speaker 3: A damn good person.
Speaker 1: Thank you for saying that. Dig Dig just opened my legs.
Speaker 1: I don't like that at all. That's very weird. He's
Speaker 1: just looking in on you. Can tap him on the
Speaker 1: nose if you want to stop. It's quite nice.
Speaker 3: I've been away for three days.
Speaker 1: And he's missed me. He missed you. It's actually really nice.
Speaker 1: I did the same at the door. Yes, kissed my
Speaker 1: legs looking motion. It's lovely as you do what you're
Speaker 1: always Hey.
Speaker 2: Guys, if you don't want to listen to us talking
Speaker 2: about this kind of stuff, you can skip ahead to
Speaker 2: just listen to the story.
Speaker 1: The time is in the show is it is? And
Speaker 1: I heard from our stickers by Claude today. She was
Speaker 1: very excited to hear everything on the podcast last week
Speaker 1: and was very excited that we read out her letter
Speaker 1: and opened the stickers yet again. We love them.
Speaker 2: And guess what, we actually got more stickers this weekend.
Speaker 2: Magnets from a beautiful list of Alice named Emily, who
Speaker 2: has left us big.
Speaker 1: Pipe on the pod before. Yes, she has.
Speaker 2: And I was down in my favorite place on Earth, Tasmania,
Speaker 2: for a food and wine festival, and this gorgeous girl
Speaker 2: came up to me with an envelope in her hands
Speaker 2: that said to Sammy and g and Digs and Paudry
Speaker 2: and our beautiful listener Emilie heard me talking about fact
Speaker 2: that was going to this food and wine for in
Speaker 2: Lonceston and brought a gift with her of stickers and
Speaker 2: magnets that she had.
Speaker 3: Made for us and found me at the.
Speaker 2: Festival and gave me them. And I will say, first
Speaker 2: of all, a huge thank you to Emily. You were
Speaker 2: so sweet and it's just so beautiful to think of us.
Speaker 3: At all at alone bring me presents, and it's.
Speaker 1: So lovely to meet listeners out in the wild.
Speaker 2: But can I say, Sammy p I'm never going to
Speaker 2: be able to travel without you ever again, because over
Speaker 2: the three days I.
Speaker 1: Need to send me to carry my things.
Speaker 2: Yes, I had an overwhelming number of people come up
Speaker 2: to me and first of all say they listened to
Speaker 2: the podcast, which made me so happy.
Speaker 1: Everyone said, we're Sammy.
Speaker 2: We thought he would be here, So you had Gareth,
Speaker 2: I did have my friend girl. And we're not allowed
Speaker 2: to travel alone anymore.
Speaker 3: So I'm booking your festival ticket for next year right now.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. You're in advance. Was it amazing?
Speaker 1: It was so funny. It is just the most fun weekend.
Speaker 1: This is not spoon anyway. British India and Boy and
Speaker 1: Bear with a music act.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, ye, fantastic music obviously, fantastic food and wine
Speaker 2: because it's Tasmanian.
Speaker 1: The weather was beautiful.
Speaker 2: It's just in a big park in City Park and
Speaker 2: lncestein and there's food and wine stalls and different stages
Speaker 2: set up everywhere, and you just like pick a spot
Speaker 2: for the day. And we just like had our little crew.
Speaker 2: There were four of us, and then just had friends
Speaker 2: that live in Tazzy kind of come and go and
Speaker 2: join us for a couple of hours and then you know,
Speaker 2: move on some rails and we'd have other friends come
Speaker 2: and it was just three days of just drinking and
Speaker 2: chatting and catching up and a.
Speaker 1: Son, you have a hot jam donut. I did not
Speaker 1: have a single hot jam donut.
Speaker 2: I had some, okay, no churros, you know, man, I'm
Speaker 2: not a sweet.
Speaker 1: Scallop, That's true. There is a store the whole cake
Speaker 1: to yourself, the whole birthday cake, and in the rain crying.
Speaker 4: Correct a stall there with the funniest name I've ever seen,
Speaker 4: because it just like in no way makes sense from
Speaker 4: what I can ascertain.
Speaker 1: And that right that broke the internet.
Speaker 2: The stalls called smallest Pancakes.
Speaker 1: I saw your proper that this smallest pancakes saying the
Speaker 1: same thing over and again. Explain yourself. I can't explain it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense. It doesn't explain it.
Speaker 3: So funny smallest pancakes.
Speaker 1: Festivals with pancakes, pancakes, and they make them for festivals.
Speaker 2: Do know? Doesn't make any sense. And me and my
Speaker 2: grammar nerd friends the funniest thing.
Speaker 1: No, you didn't want to find the answers better left
Speaker 1: and that's my humor.
Speaker 2: Too many pluralles, I think is top dear, that's so funny.
Speaker 1: Can you tell me about your weekend? I had my
Speaker 1: own festivallet here at home. Diggs and I had a
Speaker 1: bottle of jams. We danced Hungry Jack's on the weekend.
Speaker 1: Oh my, sorry about that.
Speaker 3: So Jans is a Tasmanian wine.
Speaker 1: Correct. Guess what they didn't have at festival chance they
Speaker 1: haven't done a few years, because.
Speaker 2: They have not done FESTIVALI and this is my formal
Speaker 2: complaint to Jens. Go back to festivaly, please please, There
Speaker 2: is no way you're not making enough money from it,
Speaker 2: because my family and I and all their friends have
Speaker 2: I'm certain kept you in here. Yes, if you need
Speaker 2: us to pay more per bottle. We actually always comment
Speaker 2: on the fact that it's cellar door prices, but at
Speaker 2: food and Wine festival like it's wild, it's so good,
Speaker 2: so we always commented about the fact that it was
Speaker 2: really affordable. If you need a bump up the prices,
Speaker 2: We're still going to buy it.
Speaker 1: To promise. The girls from Jams came to my comedy
Speaker 1: festival show The Best Emily Fitzgerald, who I bloody loved.
Speaker 1: I don't know why I said her last name Emily,
Speaker 1: and then during oh yeah, then they took me out
Speaker 1: for drinks at another time and went out to there.
Speaker 1: They had like a food and wine day in Melbourne
Speaker 1: and they took me out for that. I drank my
Speaker 1: body weight because it was so much fun, and then
Speaker 1: I was like, like they invited us there, me and
Speaker 1: my friend Brom But then it was also like we
Speaker 1: shouldn't drink too m because it will make fools of
Speaker 1: ourselves and everything. And the only two people that were
Speaker 1: drinking and not spitting into buckets because there was everyone
Speaker 1: was professional andons has reminded me of what can we
Speaker 1: do spitting in a bucket?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Can we a big rest in pieces to Catherine.
Speaker 1: O'Hara, what's thetoons? What's that?
Speaker 2: My favorite line from Ship's Creek is when she said
Speaker 2: that she took her daughter Alexis on a holiday to
Speaker 2: France and Alexis goes, yeah, I was eight and it
Speaker 2: was a whine tour, and she goes, well, you could
Speaker 2: have used the spittoons like the other children.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen all the Ship's Creek what yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, well once we're through sea change, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Because Katherine Ohara, I'm a huge fan of her from
Speaker 1: improvised films. So the reason I love her is because
Speaker 1: she was in your waiting for Waiting for her, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and welcome to golfin whatever that is, waiting for Guffman
Speaker 1: a mighty wind show, Best in Show for your consideration.
Speaker 1: She did so many amazing films where she acted in them,
Speaker 1: but it was improvised, and she's just the funniest person
Speaker 1: in every film. And then and then you know Beatlejuice
Speaker 1: Home Alone, like just an incredible actor, absolutely amazing. I
Speaker 1: didn't know that she like she's so she was so
Speaker 1: young as well, like she was just in the studio
Speaker 1: the TV show, remember, I know, like like in the
Speaker 1: last year yeah, and it was just incredible, a huge,
Speaker 1: huge shock. Yeah, absolutely, you know our time.
Speaker 3: In Australia waking up and opening up social media and that's.
Speaker 1: All that was. I know. Yeah, really, I very.
Speaker 3: Rarely get kind of affected by celebrity dance.
Speaker 2: Yeah it's sad, but I don't know them, and inact me,
Speaker 2: this one really really Yeah.
Speaker 1: She seemed like a beautiful person, like she seemed just
Speaker 1: so lovely and.
Speaker 3: Said she's just yeah, yeah, like you said, we didn't
Speaker 3: know she was sick.
Speaker 1: She was only seventy one, I know, and I think
Speaker 1: I think with like Rob Ryaner and like, I mean,
Speaker 1: it is it is such an awful, awful time in
Speaker 1: general really and then and then you know these deaths.
Speaker 1: You know, he's got oh my god, like a comedy
Speaker 1: and other comedy legend that was just like inspired everybody,
Speaker 1: like Katine haha, like kind of the understated person in comedy. Yes,
Speaker 1: every single everyone was like, oh, yeah, she's the funniest
Speaker 1: person in the world. But everyone said that about it.
Speaker 1: I kind of feel something about Julia Louis Dreyfuss. Yes,
Speaker 1: she's the funniest person. She never get number one, though,
Speaker 1: but she is like when you actually got to think
Speaker 1: of her. Yeah, Julie Luid Dreyfit's amazing. Yeah, that is
Speaker 1: very book in at the moment.
Speaker 2: And the character, the main character's cat is called Julia
Speaker 2: Luis Dreyfust.
Speaker 1: It's good a cat name, isn't it. I like it? God,
Speaker 1: we used to laugh. Hey we still lia We still laugh?
Speaker 1: Can we talk about that?
Speaker 2: This is not a funny topic. This is very serious
Speaker 2: to me. The last time we recorded, yes, you said,
Speaker 2: well I was away, yep.
Speaker 1: In Lon Sesston, you were going to watch he did Rivalry?
Speaker 1: Did you do it? Can't tell you what I watched
Speaker 1: it instead? Morning was You've never what warning was before?
Speaker 1: Now now I watched an episode back in the day,
Speaker 1: one episode one fantastic. It's so good. Yes, that's what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. First season, watch that you got hungry Jacks
Speaker 1: drank Jans, had a dance party with and watched Weekend
Speaker 1: of My Life one had a mental breakdown. I watched,
Speaker 1: I watched That's what. I had a mental collapse, just
Speaker 1: dancing with digs More. Morning was give me no, But
Speaker 1: so I had that on and I got up to
Speaker 1: the second season. Isn't the first season brilliant? It's amazing.
Speaker 1: I don't I don't really know where the second season
Speaker 1: is going, but I'm loving it so far. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how much I watched so No, in answer to
Speaker 1: your question, I haven't watched Heated Rivalry, but I've seen
Speaker 1: many memoirs about it. I've seen many gifts about it.
Speaker 1: I've seen so much going on with these two homosexual
Speaker 1: men who play hockey, and I can't wait to see
Speaker 1: these two homosexual men play hockey, make love, fall in love,
Speaker 1: and go to the cottage. That's all I all about it.
Speaker 2: He knows my close personal friend, Connor Story is hosting
Speaker 2: SNL this week.
Speaker 1: My close personal friend connors Story, Connor Story. Yes is
Speaker 1: their actual name? Yes? And who's that if? And that's
Speaker 1: one of the characters, one of the main gays. Yes,
Speaker 1: I get it now.
Speaker 2: Yes, he's hosting SNL. Oh, so we can maybe watch
Speaker 2: that as you like. Entry into the problem with you
Speaker 2: not watching it while I wasn't here. Now I'm going
Speaker 2: to have to watch it with you, and I'm going
Speaker 2: to be absolutely like heinous to watch it with Oh.
Speaker 1: My god, we've got two nights together this week before
Speaker 1: you head off again and go to Tasmania again.
Speaker 3: This weekend this week and I have a wine festival
Speaker 3: in Hobar.
Speaker 1: I'm working at this one. This one is a job,
Speaker 1: not just pleas here. But that doesn't any way be
Speaker 1: doing the worm on the dance floor.
Speaker 3: Try to bring in the two.
Speaker 2: If you can't work, to work and you can't have pleasure,
Speaker 2: I have work.
Speaker 3: You know, as they say, that's actually.
Speaker 1: Going to be on my tombstone? Could that be your
Speaker 1: catchphrase or not? Cat trase? But what what you say
Speaker 1: when they say madam business or pleasure and you say both?
Speaker 1: I mean for the wine festival? Is that good? You
Speaker 1: could say that that could be kind of fun. You
Speaker 1: could say that no, no heated rivalry just yet. But guys,
Speaker 1: can you bully Sammy with me? Please?
Speaker 2: Get onto your Instagram at Sammy Peterson Unofficial. Get onto
Speaker 2: our Instagram and our TikTok YouTube not another crime podcast.
Speaker 1: Can you freely follow that? You can anyone freely follow that? Yes?
Speaker 1: Can you just freely follow that?
Speaker 2: Freely follow it? And it is free to follow. You
Speaker 2: don't even have to pay for.
Speaker 1: It, rightn' everyone doing that listens to this.
Speaker 3: I don't understand. No, I don't know why that.
Speaker 2: I can't answer for you because I follow all of
Speaker 2: them for free.
Speaker 1: For free. That's amazing stuff. Okay, so check that out.
Speaker 2: And you can follow us and then bully Sammy into
Speaker 2: watching Heated Rivalry.
Speaker 1: I'll tell you what. I'll watch Heated Rivalry if you
Speaker 1: watch my comedy special. It's on YouTube dot com. Check
Speaker 1: it out on YouTube dot com. I went to Comedy
Speaker 1: Republic on the weekend where I filmed my comedy special,
Speaker 1: and I tell you what drinks were flowing. I got
Speaker 1: free drinks from all three of the owners.
Speaker 3: Oh because compecial they've ever.
Speaker 1: Said, they've said and well they haven't said that. I've
Speaker 1: said that, and they put me in the newsletter this week.
Speaker 1: It's beautiful. I feel. Yeah, I'm at the top of
Speaker 1: the newsletter.
Speaker 3: You're at the topic godamn game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're at the bottom, top and bottom heat a
Speaker 1: rovery reference and I will be celebrating you. Celebrate and
Speaker 1: watch it right now on the Comedy Republic YouTube channel.
Speaker 1: I would love Have you watched it? Yes with you? Oh? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah?
Speaker 1: First got a little first, little tease part of it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I'm very excited about it. That's on YouTube dot com.
Speaker 1: If you want to watch that, you.
Speaker 2: Tonight on my actual TV. WHOA, I'm going and watch
Speaker 2: it with.
Speaker 1: I don't have surround sound.
Speaker 2: I live in an old apartment and I don't really
Speaker 2: care about technology, but I'm going to watch it and
Speaker 2: maybe like play the podcast on my phone, like on
Speaker 2: the back of the couch, so theyn it will be
Speaker 2: surround sound. I guess do you want to come over
Speaker 2: and sit on the other side of me and then
Speaker 2: you can talk about.
Speaker 1: But if you'll watch my comedy special, go to the
Speaker 1: Comedy Public YouTube channel. Check that out. Do you love?
Speaker 1: You've got anything to plug? When's your goddamn podcast coming back? Oh?
Speaker 1: This one soon? I'vequught a great plug.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't remember the date that it's launching, but
Speaker 2: I've got my first interview for season eight of.
Speaker 1: More snotting into the microphone like you did last week.
Speaker 1: Got a great clip of that. Don't worry about that's
Speaker 1: coming out shit at the time of recording. It'll well thrive.
Speaker 1: Recording is coming out. It'll already be.
Speaker 2: Season eight of Everyone Has An X. My other podcast
Speaker 2: is coming back.
Speaker 1: It is confirmed.
Speaker 2: I have my first interview for this season this week.
Speaker 1: You got John Goodman, No, not in viewing John Goodman. No,
Speaker 1: remember your friend, our friend. I'd like to say, our friend. Bam.
Speaker 1: You didn't pull me up on it, but for some
Speaker 1: reason really aggresively said our friend. Maam. When I met
Speaker 1: one of the first times, I said to her, because
Speaker 1: she's to work with the project, I said, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: who have you interviewed Squidward And she goes, no, I
Speaker 1: haven't because people all night. Bam, reckon, she's interviewed celebrities
Speaker 1: at the project. She hadn't even met Squidw. Squidward. Just
Speaker 1: love for getting slightly wrong before Squidw met Squidward.
Speaker 4: Oh, I worked at a place that interviewed celebrities.
Speaker 1: If you have an interview, No, you have an Intervieweddquidward.
Speaker 1: I would like to say as well, thank you to
Speaker 1: all the people that continually write to us. We bloody
Speaker 1: love it. We'll be doing the mail bag section at
Speaker 1: the end. You can write into me at samit just
Speaker 1: another company, dot com dot au. You can leave us
Speaker 1: a voicemail. We call that a spig pipe. The links
Speaker 1: are below in the show notes. I've hearing your voice.
Speaker 1: We love it. Leave a rating everywhere.
Speaker 2: I met another listener at the airport on my way
Speaker 2: to one says she was going down for festival as well.
Speaker 2: She is the one that owns the dress shop in
Speaker 2: Port Douglas, and she'd written us in an email. I mean,
Speaker 2: you're not another crime podcast listeners out there in the wild.
Speaker 2: You just never know when you might meet.
Speaker 1: I know they'll spring out and get you. You can
Speaker 1: never be safe in this world. The Port Douglas beautiful
Speaker 1: frock so I imagine, yes, was she wearing one? Yes?
Speaker 1: Was she looking good at the airport?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 1: She was looking great at the airport.
Speaker 2: I was going, okay, guys, I was going to take
Speaker 2: some photos and put them up on the podcast page,
Speaker 2: like this is what you can wear at the airport,
Speaker 2: this is what you can't wear at the airport. But
Speaker 2: then I realized it's not a nice thing to do
Speaker 2: to take an unsolicited photo of someone put it on
Speaker 2: the internet saying this is a bad outfit.
Speaker 1: So I didn't do that. I think and maybe wrong
Speaker 1: on this. It was either Ben Lawrence or one of
Speaker 1: the many Emmas or Gemmas that listening to the podcast
Speaker 1: sent in a photo of someone on the plane, Alex
Speaker 1: Maybe it was Alex oh anyway, but they had a
Speaker 1: a sparkly hat on the plane and when g would
Speaker 1: be happy about this sparkly top beautiful.
Speaker 2: It was the picture show. Yes with Colombia. No, not
Speaker 2: great McLaughlin.
Speaker 1: Nope. If that's that's another crime, well it was found
Speaker 1: not guilty. That doesn't mean allegedly crime. Hey, everybody, we're
Speaker 1: going to get into this episode this week. I want
Speaker 1: to say that I had not heard of this crime
Speaker 1: before and it was a real surprise to me. It
Speaker 1: is a really, really awful crime. There is at the
Speaker 1: time of recording, a Netflix documentary coming out in just
Speaker 1: a few days and a huge trigger warning for this episode.
Speaker 2: It deals with the death of babies, not even just children.
Speaker 1: And by the time you listen to this, the Netflix
Speaker 1: dotr will be out and hey will either recommend it
Speaker 1: or we won't. But we can't tell you now because
Speaker 1: we don't know.
Speaker 2: And also, you know, something did all the research for
Speaker 2: this without even having the docker to watch.
Speaker 1: That's right, so some of us is incorrect. No, it's
Speaker 1: not checked it ready for this. Yeah, wolves are easy
Speaker 1: toot wolves, wolves like uh huh, those sorts of wolves
Speaker 1: sharp teeth, yellow eyes, are hunger that shows itself in
Speaker 1: the way they move. But the most dangerous wolves learn
Speaker 1: early how to soften their steps, how to lower their gaze,
Speaker 1: how to wear gentleness like a burrowed skin, like a
Speaker 1: borrowed skin. In this place, softness was the uniform. Voices
Speaker 1: stayed low, hands were careful, Smiles were meant to reassure.
Speaker 1: Lives small enough to fit in the crook of an
Speaker 1: arm depended on routines, regular safety, trust, and the unspoken
Speaker 1: faith that those who stood what through the night were
Speaker 1: there to actually protect, never to do harm. No one
Speaker 1: thought to question the figure who blended so completely into
Speaker 1: that promise, who spoke the language of care fluently, who
Speaker 1: appeared when alarm sounded, there to protect, not to harm,
Speaker 1: who seemed to grieve when things were wrong, grieve with them.
Speaker 1: This is a story of a wolf in sheep's clothing,
Speaker 1: not one that proud at the edges, not one that
Speaker 1: proud at the edges, but one that stood at the
Speaker 1: center of the flock. It is a story about how
Speaker 1: evil does not always announce itself with noise or chaos.
Speaker 1: You can't always listen for the chickens in the pen,
Speaker 1: But sometimes it arrives quietly, wrapped in kindness, waiting for
Speaker 1: the moment when no one is looking closely enough to
Speaker 1: see the teeth beneath the wall. This is a story
Speaker 1: of Lucy let Bell.
Speaker 3: That was beautifully written.
Speaker 1: And I'm tearing up already.
Speaker 3: That was really beautifully written. It's just such a fucking.
Speaker 1: Woman, I know. Lucy let Bee was described by her
Speaker 1: colleagues as quiet, ordinary and entirely unassuming. To those who
Speaker 1: worked alongside her, she was a kind and dedicated nurse,
Speaker 1: someone passionate about her job, and wholly trusted by the
Speaker 1: people who depended on her care the most. A clear
Speaker 1: trigger warning before we go any further on this, Jesus
Speaker 1: Or already mentioned this, but this is not an easy
Speaker 1: story to hear or to tell. At the heart of
Speaker 1: it lies a deeply unsettling question. Is Lucy let Be
Speaker 1: a serial killer responsible for the deaths of society's most
Speaker 1: vulnerable or is she innocent, a scapegoat used to mask
Speaker 1: profound and longstanding, systematic failures within the NHS. Let Be
Speaker 1: herself has claimed that her unit was chronically overstretched, dangerously understaffed,
Speaker 1: and routinely unable to provide the standard of care its
Speaker 1: patients required. For those unfamiliar the NHS, the National Health
Speaker 1: Service is United Kingdom's publicly funded healthcare system. It provides
Speaker 1: comprehensive medical care to local so to legal residents, with
Speaker 1: most services free at the point of use and funded
Speaker 1: primarily through general tax. The NHS is not a single entity,
Speaker 1: but a collective term for four special our separate systems
Speaker 1: NHS England, NHS Scotland, NHS Wales. I want to guess
Speaker 1: the next one, NHS Florida, God, you're so close, and
Speaker 1: Health and Social Care in Northern Ireland so close though,
Speaker 1: just just down the road. G and I are not parents,
Speaker 1: but this episode deals with themes that you may find
Speaker 1: deeply distressing, whether you're a parent or not. We encourage
Speaker 1: you to skip this episode and return to one of
Speaker 1: our other fun ones if that's what you want to do.
Speaker 1: I personally found researching this case extremely difficult. As always,
Speaker 1: we are deliberately avoided including the most graphic and disturbing details.
Speaker 1: This is not another crime podcast, and there are other
Speaker 1: places for those accounts. Our focus here is on understanding
Speaker 1: the story, not sensationalizing it. In October twenty twenty two,
Speaker 1: Lucy let Be was accused of attempting to murder twenty
Speaker 1: two infants twenty two Lucy became known as one of
Speaker 1: Britain's most prolific child serial killers. The most haunting.
Speaker 2: Aspect, sorry to interrupt, even just saying one of is
Speaker 2: fucking horrible.
Speaker 1: I know, I know, but yeah, but we'll go into
Speaker 1: the other people that the other are in this as well.
Speaker 1: The most haunting aspect of the story to most is
Speaker 1: that Lucy does not seem like a serial killer. How many,
Speaker 1: how not many people really do? We look at Jeffrey
Speaker 1: Darmer or John Wayne Gacy and there's something about them
Speaker 1: that you go, oh yeah, that could be a serial killer,
Speaker 1: and we can see a serial killer in that instant.
Speaker 1: It's an uncomfortable phrase, but one the media adopted Lucy
Speaker 1: Letby's killing field. The hospital at the center of that
Speaker 1: label was the Countess of Chester Hospital, located in Chester
Speaker 1: and serving the local population of North Wales. Around two
Speaker 1: one thousand babies are born there each year WOW, and
Speaker 1: the hospital includes a special care unit dedicated to providing
Speaker 1: round the clock treatment for the most vulnerable infants. Historically,
Speaker 1: deaths at the hospital were rare. In twenty ten, there
Speaker 1: was just one recorded death of a premature baby WOW.
Speaker 1: In twenty ten and twenty twelve there were two deaths
Speaker 1: each year. In twenty thirteen that number rose to three,
Speaker 1: and in twenty fourteen there were again three. These figures
Speaker 1: reflected a unit that by all appearances, was functioning as intended,
Speaker 1: providing constant specialized care to critically ill and vulnerable newborns.
Speaker 1: In twenty fifteen, this all changed. The number surged to
Speaker 1: a staggering eight just in one in one year. The
Speaker 1: alarming thing wasn't the sudden rise, but the nature of
Speaker 1: the death themselves. Before these babies love their lives, they
Speaker 1: were seemingly stable, only to suddenly deteriorate without any warning.
Speaker 1: This pattern itself, particularly in a special care unit, is
Speaker 1: extremely distressing and alarming, not just the people that work there,
Speaker 1: but also to course the parents. What was particularly striking
Speaker 1: was how differently the deaths were perceived depending on where
Speaker 1: you stood within the hospital. For NHS nurses and doctors
Speaker 1: on the front line, each death was absolutely devastating, watching
Speaker 1: families endure the worst moments of their lives. These losses
Speaker 1: had to be formally recorded, but for those providing care
Speaker 1: they were far more than just statistics. Each death was
Speaker 1: deeply troubling and raised serious concern within the unit. And yeah,
Speaker 1: I said. Con Then before we move on to how
Speaker 1: the first alarm was raised by a fellow colleague, I'd
Speaker 1: like to share with you a bit about Lucy let Be.
Speaker 1: Lucy was born in Hereford, I believe Hereford or Hereford
Speaker 1: Hereford Hereford be yeah, I think Hereford. Let's go with
Speaker 1: Hereford Hereford in January nineteen ninety, making her thirty three
Speaker 1: years old at the time of her trial.
Speaker 2: God.
Speaker 1: She attended Alston School before going on to study nursing
Speaker 1: at the University of Chester. Nursing had long interested her.
Speaker 1: She'd experienced a difficult birth herself, and her mother often
Speaker 1: told her that nurses had played a critical role in
Speaker 1: saving her life as an infant. Oh God. After graduating,
Speaker 1: Lucy secured a permanent position as a neonatal nurse at
Speaker 1: the Countess of Chester Hospital at the Neonatal Unit in
Speaker 1: early twenty twelve. That was difficult to get out. Quite
Speaker 1: a few neon natals then done really well. Thank you
Speaker 1: for saying that. Early assessments of her performance were mixed.
Speaker 1: Some colleagues noticed gaps in her clinical knowledge and felt
Speaker 1: she needed to better recognize nonverbal distress in parents. It'll
Speaker 1: be quite a big part of your role. I imagine
Speaker 1: as a nurses, you really have to get to know
Speaker 1: the parents, understand how they're adapting in a situation, if
Speaker 1: they are really not coping with what's happening. With a
Speaker 1: few even describing her manner as cold, so a few
Speaker 1: people were like, oh, Lucy's quite a cold person. Over time, however,
Speaker 1: she settled into the role and came to be regarded
Speaker 1: as competent and well liked. Competent is never a compliment.
Speaker 1: I think people just go they're competent. It's fine. I
Speaker 1: think it's fine. It's not like competent at your job.
Speaker 2: No matter what that job is, you should be competent,
Speaker 2: let alone if it's about treating people.
Speaker 1: I know. Lucy's upbringing was described as loving, warm and stable.
Speaker 1: Friend recalled that she was initially quite shy, but once comfortable,
Speaker 1: she was bubbly and fun. As a young adult, she
Speaker 1: enjoyed cocktails with friends, salsa dancing, and holidays abroad, including
Speaker 1: trips to Ibitha. I hate you really do, don't you? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Thet I think you have, yeah, terrible experience. I hated it.
Speaker 1: It's just like my least, it's so not me.
Speaker 2: That scene and my then husband really wanted to go,
Speaker 2: so we did and ended up being a big group
Speaker 2: trip with all his friends and my friend I'm they're
Speaker 2: my friends as well.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I hated it. We couldn't get like went out
Speaker 1: one night.
Speaker 2: I was duped into thinking, well, no, I was told
Speaker 2: straight up it's not a DJ. It's just like it's
Speaker 2: just you know, there is a DJ around them. This
Speaker 2: place we're going to it was a massive fucking DJ set.
Speaker 1: It was horrible. I hated it, and he.
Speaker 2: Couldn't get home and I cracked the sheps and burst
Speaker 2: into tears and booked myself into five Style Hotel for
Speaker 2: the next night.
Speaker 1: Diva we regret. When the investigation began, Lucy was really
Speaker 1: open with friends and family with what was happening. And
Speaker 1: even though she was open, it was a massive shock
Speaker 1: to them. And when she was eventually rested arrested, sorry,
Speaker 1: they just couldn't believe that because she, like you mean,
Speaker 1: she told her friends and family, she was open about
Speaker 1: the investigation that was ongoing, and when she was actually arrested.
Speaker 2: About the fact that they were investigating.
Speaker 1: Her within the hospital, yes and yeah, these.
Speaker 2: Babies have been dying and that's investigating and it's really
Speaker 2: was she saying, like, you.
Speaker 1: Know, oh, how awful is this that this is happening? Well, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah while she's on the clock. Yeah yeah, exactly. So yeah.
Speaker 1: So her best friend commented that she would never believe
Speaker 1: Lucy did this unless she told her herself. Her family
Speaker 1: showed the same, unwavering support. For those who knew Lucy,
Speaker 1: there was no question in their minds that she was
Speaker 1: incapable of such acts. So everyone around her was like this, No,
Speaker 1: there's no way, there's no way. There been no warning signs,
Speaker 1: no foreshadowing, for shadowing, foreshadowing, nothing to suggest she'll one
Speaker 1: day be charged with these crimes. To understand what happened next,
Speaker 1: we need to return to twenty fifteen, when there was
Speaker 1: a noticeable and deeply troubling rise in infant death on
Speaker 1: July two thousand. On the second of July twenty fifteen,
Speaker 1: shortly after the third death, the lead consultant on the war,
Speaker 1: Dr Stephen Breery, raised concerns with senior management. His concerns
Speaker 1: centered specifically on Nurse Lucy let be Wow. Dr Breery
Speaker 1: had identified a disturbing pattern. Lucy had been present at
Speaker 1: all three deaths, Yet despite the seriousness of the observation.
Speaker 1: His concerns were not acted upon. Oh three deaths were
Speaker 1: already three too many, and still no formal line of
Speaker 1: inquiry followed. In hindsight, this inaction is difficult to comprehend,
Speaker 1: but at the time the allegation itself may have felt
Speaker 1: almost unthinkable. And you can speak, you know, hindsight is
Speaker 1: twenty twenty vision right exactly as now.
Speaker 2: But yeah, perhaps, I don't know. It's very hard to
Speaker 2: comment on because I don't know. I don't have any
Speaker 2: experience in you know, working in hospitals or being no,
Speaker 2: not any No.
Speaker 1: I did my dad's a dock down when I was little.
Speaker 2: I used to go to work with him sometimes and
Speaker 2: like playing with the catheter backs.
Speaker 1: It should be a bio. When I was a kid,
Speaker 1: I used to go to hospitals with my dad and
Speaker 1: play with the catheter backs. The idea well, well there
Speaker 1: were like ones that weren't already installed within someone. I
Speaker 1: would just like, I just want a patient tour.
Speaker 3: Yeah, a patient like you know they hang up.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they weren't a coach person. No, they were
Speaker 1: like in.
Speaker 2: The patient's room, you know, they're like not a catheter
Speaker 2: Well yes, but a catheter.
Speaker 1: That's like, like, not the bag you're playing with the
Speaker 1: Wii back, I was playing with the Wii bag. Yes,
Speaker 1: the idea that all I'm asking, the idea that something
Speaker 1: so deliberate and so heinous could be occurring within a
Speaker 1: neonatal unit was likely beyond what many could accept as possible.
Speaker 1: Even so, it remains deeply troubling that nothing was done
Speaker 1: at that point. The doctor found this exceptionally frustrating. Over
Speaker 1: the next few months, there were three more deaths, and
Speaker 1: the patterns surrounding Lucy being present in all of these
Speaker 1: deaths now seemed undernighib So.
Speaker 2: She must have been the only one who was present
Speaker 2: at all of them. If immediately this died as.
Speaker 1: She was, she was like, I mean, there's other people caring.
Speaker 1: She is the only one that's been present at everyone.
Speaker 1: So Infant A and their names have always been suppressed.
Speaker 1: But like Infant A, if Infant A was there, then
Speaker 1: Lucy was there, and if there was another nurse there,
Speaker 1: that the infant under Lucy's care would suddenly die. So
Speaker 1: this was a pattern that was just emerging. Other consultants
Speaker 1: started to notice too. Morbidly. It became a question in
Speaker 1: the office and kind of gallows humor that if a
Speaker 1: baby died, was Lucy on duty? Oh gosh, it felt
Speaker 1: like a joke, but also not. It seemed as though
Speaker 1: it was just gossip. In February two, twenty sixteen, another consultant,
Speaker 1: doctor Ravi Jayream, approached the executive of the hospital, chief
Speaker 1: executive Tony Chambers, with the same concerns. Well, without having
Speaker 1: spoken to the first Well, I don't know, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't seem like it. Tony was dubious and told the
Speaker 1: doctor that he could see how he might view the
Speaker 1: concerns of his unit as an excuse for the before
Speaker 1: of the poor performance of the unit. In a way,
Speaker 1: Tony Chambers was accusing him of trying to use Lucy
Speaker 1: as a scapegoat. This carried serious implications. The NHS is
Speaker 1: a vast and highly bureaucratic system, and over time it
Speaker 1: appeared that senior leadership came to believe there was no
Speaker 1: immediate cause for alarm, that operations should continue as normal.
Speaker 1: Yet between February and we beginning to kiss Diggs, come
Speaker 1: up my face? Is someone else? Yet? Between February and May,
Speaker 1: two more babies die and several others suffered unexplained collapses.
Speaker 1: The unit was clearly understrained, mistakes were occurring more regularly,
Speaker 1: critical procedures were being missed, and there was insufficient senior
Speaker 1: cover on the ship. So like senior leaders, like doctors,
Speaker 1: and you know. By this point, the atmosphere on the
Speaker 1: ward had become unbearable, especially for the frontline staff who
Speaker 1: were confronting these events day after day and constantly going
Speaker 1: home with another loss. By the end of June, a
Speaker 1: team meeting was held to address the vital sorry, to
Speaker 1: address the rising death toll, and to try to restore morale,
Speaker 1: reinforcing that their work was vital and they had to
Speaker 1: keep going no matter what. During the meeting, one detail
Speaker 1: stood out. Lucy Leppe showed no visible emotion, which struck
Speaker 1: some as unusual, particularly given that she was the only
Speaker 1: nurse who had been present at every fatality. Many would
Speaker 1: have expected her to be among the most affected by this.
Speaker 1: After the meeting, the doctor who called the meeting checked
Speaker 1: in with Lucy privately to ask how she was coping.
Speaker 1: Lucy thanked him for his concern, but said she was
Speaker 1: absolutely fine and didn't need to take any time off.
Speaker 2: Well that you know what, even if you've just been
Speaker 2: at work, when you've been on shift, when a baby
Speaker 2: has passed, let alone a number of them. That in
Speaker 2: itself should make you not fine, let alone if it's
Speaker 2: been all being investigated and everything like this.
Speaker 1: We'll go into this later. It's kind of a you
Speaker 1: know that nurses, in particular neo natal nurses formed quite
Speaker 1: a tight bond obviously with the parents. And this is
Speaker 1: a really hard thing. But she returned to work the
Speaker 1: very next day. Wow. So several alarm bells continued to
Speaker 1: phone Hey, honey, I'm just recording a podcast with Georgia. Honey.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, sorry I was calling you back. OK,
Speaker 1: you're on the podcast right now. Anything you want to
Speaker 1: say many.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I saw you on the Jeffrey Epstein email.
Speaker 5: Okay, that's good.
Speaker 1: Have Meg Yeager on the podcast. Everywhere Great Comedian festival.
Speaker 1: Show's touring all around Australia. It's that's not any good
Speaker 1: indication of Meg how quick she is. All right. After that,
Speaker 1: after the meeting, a doctor checked in with Lucia Sorr.
Speaker 1: I've already been through this so at this time, several
Speaker 1: alarm bells. I have just been accused of something quite awful.
Speaker 2: Do you want it to take this opportunity to tell
Speaker 2: me and the listeners whether.
Speaker 1: You were in the Jefferypstairs, I'm not.
Speaker 3: Why won't you make argondo I am in the emails?
Speaker 1: So several alarm bells continue to ring for this doctor.
Speaker 1: You should need to take time off, even if you're
Speaker 1: questioning your ability at this time. Now, Lucy is somewhat
Speaker 1: seen as a bit of a closed book. She came
Speaker 1: across as a very guilty person because she didn't show
Speaker 1: any emotion or react in the regular ways you would
Speaker 1: expect in such tragic circumstances. We've kind of been through
Speaker 1: this before, but sometimes people don't behave in the way
Speaker 1: you're expecting them to. The evening, Doctor Breery contacted the
Speaker 1: head of nursing for Also that evening. That evening, Dr
Speaker 1: Breery contacted the head of nursing for the Urgent Care Division,
Speaker 1: a woman by the name of Karen Reese. He told
Speaker 1: her plainly that Lucy needed to be immediately taken off
Speaker 1: his unit, that he believed that she was responsible and
Speaker 1: that something needed to change right away.
Speaker 2: So straight up, I think she's responsible, not even there
Speaker 2: might be something going on.
Speaker 1: I think she's responsible. But once again, Karen dismissed the
Speaker 1: concerns and said that Lucy posed no threat to patients
Speaker 1: and without concrete evidence, they would not be able to act.
Speaker 1: And you know what, it.
Speaker 2: Is hard like if you want to kind of play
Speaker 2: devil's advocate for all, which is the wrong term, because
Speaker 2: there's you know, there's no advocating for something that's done this.
Speaker 1: But at this point they didn't know whether she had
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 2: You look at that as someone who's in charge of
Speaker 2: the unit, I suppose, and you go, well, we can't
Speaker 2: assume that somebody is doing this.
Speaker 1: So I mean, I'm saying it.
Speaker 2: I disagree with it as i'm saying it, but I
Speaker 2: suppose she's probably looking at that and saying, well, you
Speaker 2: can't just tell me that I've got to take someone
Speaker 2: off exact we don't have any proof of anything.
Speaker 1: I can't just you can't just reach someone someone of
Speaker 1: multiple murders. No, you can't rip someone off the unit
Speaker 1: and just be like, look, these are the reasons why.
Speaker 1: Because the doctor's suspect.
Speaker 2: Which is hard to say because now we know that
Speaker 2: obviously she was. You know that that was the case,
Speaker 2: but if it wasn't, imagine that story you know, some
Speaker 2: person has been present for all these tragedies happening, and
Speaker 2: we've accused her exactly for any justification of that Karen's
Speaker 2: decisions in that moment, I suppose it was probably.
Speaker 1: That, I guess exactly. Karen then said that if anything
Speaker 1: were to happen with Lucy that she would take personal
Speaker 1: responsibility for it.
Speaker 3: Wow, she backed to that, back to that much far out.
Speaker 1: The next day, another baby collapsed and Lucy again was
Speaker 1: on ship the next day. Next day, consultants continued to
Speaker 1: mount pressure against the hospital and finally Lucy was moved
Speaker 1: to administrative duties administrative, well administrative. There was a huge
Speaker 1: relief at the time for all of the consultants and
Speaker 1: the nurses. Despite moving her, the hospital was not going
Speaker 1: to take any further action. The hospital told the concern
Speaker 1: staff that the action they were taking was to move
Speaker 1: her to administrative duties and they had done their due diligence.
Speaker 1: They then asked the staff to stop emailing them on
Speaker 1: the matter.
Speaker 2: So there's multiple people going no, no more needs down
Speaker 2: and then stop it with the day.
Speaker 1: In fact, I think it was seven consultants. Wow. I
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm pulling that name out of my arsenal,
Speaker 1: but I feel like it was about seven arsenal arsenal.
Speaker 1: In a situation like this, proof is essential. But by
Speaker 1: this point there appeared to be a growing body of
Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence. The pattern could not be ignored. And this
Speaker 1: is the thing we've discussed with this as well.
Speaker 2: And I feel like I say it often when people
Speaker 2: argue about you know, trials that are on at the
Speaker 2: moment and people are following in the medium people, but
Speaker 2: it's only circumstantial, yes, but that is still evidence. Circumstantial
Speaker 2: evidence is that there have been cases found only circumstantial,
Speaker 2: so you can't discount that either.
Speaker 1: Well, the pattern could not be ignored, and to prevent
Speaker 1: history from repeating itself, the common theirvariable had to be removed,
Speaker 1: and she was. After Lucy was reassigned, the whispering on
Speaker 1: the ward reached her. She filed a formal grievance against
Speaker 1: seven consultants I didn't pull it out of my asshole there,
Speaker 1: arguing that her removal was the was her removal from
Speaker 1: the unit was based on unsubstantiated accusations. In her complaint,
Speaker 1: Lucy said that after returning from annual leaves, she felt
Speaker 1: excluded and professionally devastated by a decision in which she
Speaker 1: had no say. While she acknowledged that staff had the
Speaker 1: right to raise concerns, she said that those concerns did
Speaker 1: not need to be discussed openly in a way that
Speaker 1: caused her significant distress. Behind her back, she was labeled
Speaker 1: the angel of death awful, a term that eventually it's awful,
Speaker 1: a term that eventually made its way to her. By
Speaker 1: this stage, many consultants had turned against her, and the
Speaker 1: pressure continued to intensify. Disparaging comments were made about Lucy
Speaker 1: in private, many of which later reached her. Lucy maintained
Speaker 1: that she remained Lucy maintained that she remained professional throughout
Speaker 1: her reassignment, but said the isolation and secrecy surrounding the
Speaker 1: situation began to take a toll on her mental health
Speaker 1: and her confidence. She made it clear that she wanted
Speaker 1: to return to the unit where she had trained and
Speaker 1: began her career. Now. When Lucy's complaint is received, senior
Speaker 1: management takes it very seriously. Two of the consultants must
Speaker 1: go through mediation with her, and all seven of the
Speaker 1: accused consultants are forced to write an apology letter to
Speaker 1: Lucy let be or that they would be reported to
Speaker 1: the General Medical Council. The consultants believed that this was
Speaker 1: a patient safety violation, but they needed proof, so Lucy
Speaker 1: herself was a safety violation. All they saw was a
Speaker 1: failing ward based on data. So that's kind of what
Speaker 1: the senior management going. It's just darted. This is what
Speaker 1: we're seeing right now. They did have clear evidence that
Speaker 1: Lucy had been treated unfairly in the workplace, so they
Speaker 1: needed to act on that first. This is just like
Speaker 1: it's just they're treating it like any other company. It's
Speaker 1: just like that HR thing instead of like infants are dying.
Speaker 1: It seemed like the easiest thing to be able to
Speaker 1: deal with. The unit was more and more understaffed. It
Speaker 1: was like they didn't have the time to get the
Speaker 1: evidence once another tragedy occurred, so they just had to
Speaker 1: move on so quickly. That was too understart to deal
Speaker 1: with it.
Speaker 2: All.
Speaker 1: Seven consultants ended up sending Lucy an apology letter. However,
Speaker 1: they stated this came from a fear of the most
Speaker 1: important thing, the patient's safety. The consultants themselves were extremely
Speaker 1: irritated that they had to go through with writing an
Speaker 1: apology letter to someone they believed was guilty. And it
Speaker 1: does not go unnoticed that while Lucy was on a
Speaker 1: ministry of duties can you guess, yeah, these sudden deaths
Speaker 1: and collapses seemed to disappear, and so as a result,
Speaker 1: the consultants did not drop the issue and continually asked
Speaker 1: for a formal investigation. Eventually, the hospital caved in, yeah.
Speaker 3: We're talking about children dying.
Speaker 1: And asked the Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health
Speaker 1: to conduct a formal review.
Speaker 3: Only after all of this, all of this, Jesus.
Speaker 1: The review found that the hospital may have downplayed the
Speaker 1: full extent of the concerns raised about Lucy let Be,
Speaker 1: but because of how badly the hospital was being managed
Speaker 1: due to staffing issues and resources, there was no evidence
Speaker 1: in the cause of death in any of the cases.
Speaker 1: So this is extremely frustrating for all of the consultants.
Speaker 1: On one hand, their fears were slightly validated, but on
Speaker 1: the other it looked as if Lucy would be getting
Speaker 1: away with something they believed she was very guilty of.
Speaker 2: The reviews sorry, so was it kind of saying the
Speaker 2: core of death aren't the same in each of the cases,
Speaker 2: so we can't possibly say that they're linked.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, but there are definitely issues right here. Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: but it could be because of resourcing, it could be because
Speaker 1: the understaff.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, there's nothing enough to show that it was
Speaker 3: a person.
Speaker 1: I think more that critical procedures are being missed right.
Speaker 1: The review suggested an external, independent review should be carried
Speaker 1: out for each of the deaths. I was surprised that
Speaker 1: this isn't something that actually already happens with a death,
Speaker 1: but I guess this goes back to the running of
Speaker 1: the hospital and how the NHS was performing at the time.
Speaker 1: As a result of the review, the hospital decided that
Speaker 1: they would stop accepting any babies under thirty two weeks
Speaker 1: of gestation until management was properly sorted out what happens
Speaker 1: to those premies then to hospitals. This was a huge
Speaker 1: blow to the consultants. The senior management will now utterly
Speaker 1: convey so the tragedies were in fact caused by Paul
Speaker 1: management and not by something more sinister at play. This
Speaker 1: fed into exactly what Tony Chambers thought earlier. He believed
Speaker 1: that Lucy was a convenient person to pin all of
Speaker 1: this on.
Speaker 2: They saw the data of who was working on She
Speaker 2: saw that there was a common denominator and went.
Speaker 1: Ah, we can pin it on her, we can put
Speaker 1: it on her. Because of the review, the hospital management
Speaker 1: decided not to go through with the external reviews. As
Speaker 1: a result, the consultants in April twenty seventeen formally reported
Speaker 1: their fears to the police. Wow, they had to go.
Speaker 1: They had to go to police. Fun the only way
Speaker 1: they're going to get listened to. Chester Police launched a
Speaker 1: formal investigation and invite to Dr Dewey Evans, a retired pediatrician. Now, okay,
Speaker 1: I should make it clear here that he had heard
Speaker 1: what was happening and he volunteered his services. He was
Speaker 1: a retired person. But actually i'll do it on behalf
Speaker 1: of the police.
Speaker 2: Right, Okay, who understands the industry? Yes, well, they just
Speaker 2: don't understand how that all works.
Speaker 1: He was watching the Lucy let me think from a
Speaker 1: farm when I want to. Yeah. He made it very
Speaker 1: clear that he didn't want to be made aware of
Speaker 1: any police or hospital's feelings that may sway. You know,
Speaker 1: he's such a doctor and his daughter was just playing
Speaker 1: with the catheter bags and the patients in the hallway.
Speaker 1: Doctor doctor Evans was given a record of record, sorry
Speaker 1: of thirty babies. For half of them he was able
Speaker 1: to find a very clear explanation of their death due
Speaker 1: to infections or hemorrhages. For fifteen of these he could
Speaker 1: not provide an explanation of what had occurred. So half,
Speaker 1: So those parents.
Speaker 3: There's fifteen families whose babies have died and they haven't
Speaker 3: even been told why.
Speaker 1: Well, this was of of thirty. This was of the
Speaker 1: thirty that were given, So there's way more than that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was a suddenness of the deterioration that didn't add up.
Speaker 1: He noticed in some of the cases the baby showed
Speaker 1: signs of air embolisms in their system, which to him,
Speaker 1: he believed that this could not be accidental. Is that
Speaker 1: like a bubble like yeah, so injected with air. So
Speaker 1: air would have had to be injected into them for
Speaker 1: this to happen. God or God. One isolated case might
Speaker 1: not have really concerned him, maybe even too, but several
Speaker 1: babies showed the same patterns, so this became really concerning
Speaker 1: to him. Some of these babies also showed signs of
Speaker 1: being overfed, with which a premature baby could not handle,
Speaker 1: so they would have a certain amount, but they know
Speaker 1: what to do and not to do exactly, so you know,
Speaker 1: so a certain baby would have like this amount of
Speaker 1: milk and then overfared it would throw up and everything.
Speaker 1: So it was just like this cycle is gone. This
Speaker 1: isn't right. So there's clearly a problem. But was their intent.
Speaker 1: That's what they had to find out. He also found
Speaker 1: signs of direct trauma in some of these cases, bleeding
Speaker 1: around the mouth or the back of their throats, which
Speaker 1: could be caused by a breathing tube being forcibly inserted
Speaker 1: or removed, causing catastrophic bleeding. Now, these findings were extremely alarming,
Speaker 1: not just to Hymn but also to the police as well.
Speaker 1: So he took this to the police and they went, oh,
Speaker 1: we have to look into this. It was enough to
Speaker 1: pull even more case files, particularly a pair of twins
Speaker 1: who both deteriorated rapidly after their blood sugar levels dropped.
Speaker 1: At first, it looked ordinary, which is why it was missed.
Speaker 1: But when their blood was tested, they found a high
Speaker 1: level of insulin, the kind that could only be present
Speaker 1: if it were administered externally. They knew this because when
Speaker 1: insulin is produced naturally, the body also produces see peptide
Speaker 1: in equal If there is far more insulin than sea peptide,
Speaker 1: then it proves that the insulin was actually administered externally.
Speaker 1: For doctor Evans, this was the most damning evidence so far,
Speaker 1: both twins. Yeah, police now had seventeen unexplained debts and
Speaker 1: sixteen suspicious collapses.
Speaker 2: And sorry to be ignorant, but collapses means like a
Speaker 2: collapse in their condition.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, yeah, not necessarily dying, but but yeah, but
Speaker 1: like deterioration that just went crazy, and it was if
Speaker 1: an alarm went off and sometimes you know, I was
Speaker 1: explained later, sometimes an alarm was turned off weirdly in
Speaker 1: the room, but sometimes you know, yeah, yeah, so this
Speaker 1: was this was this was the thing. But it's actually
Speaker 1: the two insulent cases where they can pinpoint who was
Speaker 1: there for those two tragedies. Oh wow, and no surprises here,
Speaker 1: it was Lucy let Be, who was a common factor
Speaker 1: in both of these depths. Now, the insulin collapse occurs
Speaker 1: within minutes, so whoever did it must have been on shift.
Speaker 1: And of course they can pull the rosters or for
Speaker 1: UK people, rotors they call them rote Really, yeah, what
Speaker 1: does that mean? It's just the same yea just wrote
Speaker 1: her and they can see that Lucy was there every time.
Speaker 1: They then crossed reference the other incidents and the same
Speaker 1: pattern appeared by the force cap. By the fourth case
Speaker 1: it was proven, and by the last case it was absolute.
Speaker 1: So the police now had to arrest Lucy Leppie. On
Speaker 1: the third of July twenty eighteen, police knocked on Lucy's door,
Speaker 1: three years after this or started, Yeah God, who answered
Speaker 1: and was extremely calm, not panicking at all, and did
Speaker 1: not protest her innocence. As she was taken to the car,
Speaker 1: she politely asked if she can have her seat move
Speaker 1: forward as she recently had knee surgery. Even throughout the interviews,
Speaker 1: detectives all said she didn't panic at all and was
Speaker 1: really cooperative the fuck. Meanwhile, police began searching Lucy's home.
Speaker 1: Her bedroom was decorated in pink and white, with Teddy
Speaker 1: de bears on the display, glittery photo framed slogan artwork,
Speaker 1: and fairy lights. At the age of thirty three, Yeah
Speaker 1: by all appearance as an ordinary, unremarkable room. Many reports
Speaker 1: later focused heavily on the teddy bears and the seemingly
Speaker 1: juvenile decorps, but It's difficult to see how that alone
Speaker 1: would ever prove anything. Of course, it was certainly not
Speaker 1: the smoking gun investigators were looking for. What they did find, however,
Speaker 1: was much more significant. Hidden under a bed were two
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty seven confidential hospital documents, including handover sheets,
Speaker 1: medical notes, and oxygen reports.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I don't remember this detail.
Speaker 1: Eight of those documents related directly to babies who had
Speaker 1: died or suffered unexplained collapses. Police also recovered a series
Speaker 1: of post it notes and a diary entry that read,
Speaker 1: I killed them. Oh my god, I did this. I
Speaker 1: am evil? Oh my god. Now these notes looked like confessions.
Speaker 1: Others were questioning her guilt. Was this me? Did I
Speaker 1: do this? Am I evil? Lucy explained later that she
Speaker 1: was surprised to see the police. That she was kind
Speaker 1: of sorry that she was surprised to see the police,
Speaker 1: but she kind of was expecting it after all the investigations.
Speaker 1: At the same point, she kind of known the investigations
Speaker 1: and whispers were happening about her at the time. She too,
Speaker 1: you know, she she's talking about it. She was talking
Speaker 1: about it. She'd been dulls. She was talking. She was
Speaker 1: talking about it. With her family, talking about with her friends.
Speaker 1: They were just surprised when she was actually arrested in isolation.
Speaker 1: The body cam footage showed a cold, detached and unemotional person.
Speaker 1: And for the documents under her bed, they do look suspicious,
Speaker 1: almost like trophies. But she explained that these documents maybe
Speaker 1: were kept in her pockets and she kept throwing them
Speaker 1: under the bed after her shift. She had a shredder
Speaker 1: at home and was going to shred them, but she
Speaker 1: hadn't got around to it at that point. She hadn't
Speaker 1: got around to that batch at that stage. I don't
Speaker 1: know if that's a thing. I don't know if nurses do.
Speaker 1: I think you know as I wouldn't think so.
Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure you can't take any like hotel hotel
Speaker 2: hospital documents home from the hospital.
Speaker 1: I would you ever be doing well as a nurse.
Speaker 1: I imagine you're on your feet all the time. You
Speaker 1: could just put something in a pocketols them. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe it could happen, but I.
Speaker 2: Feel like even if you've done that, you take it
Speaker 2: back to work the next day, even if it's to
Speaker 2: be shredded.
Speaker 1: Read it there. Yeah, it's not your document to happen.
Speaker 5: That's true.
Speaker 1: As for the diary, she explained that she was in
Speaker 1: a really deep depression after all the rumors, whispers and investigation.
Speaker 1: Her GP advised her that she should keep a journal
Speaker 1: of what was happening, not because she'd intentionally done anything wrong,
Speaker 1: but because she should keep track of her emotions. She
Speaker 1: had been made to feel inadequate as a nurse, and
Speaker 1: the constant constant, the constant whispers behind her back made
Speaker 1: her feel more and more isolated. As well as the
Speaker 1: notes and documents, police also found that Lucy had searched
Speaker 1: for the parents of the babies online thirty one times,
Speaker 1: sometimes immediately after their death or even on anniversaries of
Speaker 1: their death. Again, this can be argued that she was
Speaker 1: feeling an immense amount of guilt. It could be normal
Speaker 1: behavior as nurses form a type bond with her parents
Speaker 1: and want to check in. Another weird thing is she
Speaker 1: had written bereavement cards. That's not weird in itself, but
Speaker 1: she actually taken photos of all the bereavement cards that
Speaker 1: she wrote, and she had copies of them. She kept
Speaker 1: them as a trophy. Oh now, police, sorry, now, now.
Speaker 1: The police did not believe that Lucy fit the profile
Speaker 1: of a killer. You know, someone who will commit these
Speaker 1: heinous crimes. Either the police had it wrong or evil
Speaker 1: can truly exist in places you've never expected. She's routinely
Speaker 1: described in the media as the Vanilla killer because of
Speaker 1: how ordinary and boring she is. Oh, I hate that.
Speaker 1: I hate that. I hate that.
Speaker 2: Just that is so awful to the parents and life
Speaker 2: loved ones of victims, just to be like, oh, she's boring,
Speaker 2: she's born.
Speaker 1: I'mrittis not bort.
Speaker 2: Like, there's nothing boring about these people's lives and what
Speaker 2: has happened to them exactly.
Speaker 1: By this point police were convinced that Lucy was guilty. Wow.
Speaker 1: Colleagues and even parents cited Lucy being by the bedside
Speaker 1: of these babies just before incidents occurred. This was really
Speaker 1: damning for Lucy. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence.
Speaker 1: On the tenth of October twenty twenty two, Lucy's trial
Speaker 1: began and went for ten months what at the Manchester
Speaker 1: Crown Court, And.
Speaker 2: God, that's a long time after So she was arrested
Speaker 2: in twenty fifth eighteen and the trial was four years
Speaker 2: later far out.
Speaker 1: It was one of the longest trials in British History who.
Speaker 1: Lucy was accused of murdering seven babies and the attempt
Speaker 1: to murder of fifteen. Ludy Lucy pled not guilty to
Speaker 1: the chargers. The prosecution's evidence centered around the blood tests
Speaker 1: results showing insulin Please insulin are poison into infants. Everything
Speaker 1: else they argued was supporting the fact that she was guilty.
Speaker 1: The names were anonymous in the case. The infant's names
Speaker 1: were assigned a letter from A to Q so q
Speaker 1: my God. The first case was that of A and
Speaker 1: B born prematurely, who were progressing well. Lucy was assigned
Speaker 1: the designated nurse for child A. Things deteriorated in a
Speaker 1: couple of hours the shift, so the nurse who had
Speaker 1: the shift of child A had passed. Child B also
Speaker 1: passed in a similar way after an oxygen tube was dislodged.
Speaker 1: Now I won't go to any more details of the
Speaker 1: babies here. It is horrific and even if accidental, not
Speaker 1: something that we ever need to go into. I've done
Speaker 1: this research so you don't have to. Each child seemed
Speaker 1: to be progressing well, and then in each case there
Speaker 1: seemed to be a chain progress. Child G had been
Speaker 1: overfed Lucy could have snuck in with her monitor being
Speaker 1: turned off and not logged the other feed. The details
Speaker 1: go on and on, so what really had happened. It
Speaker 1: was all circumstantial really apart from.
Speaker 2: The and it was not the same cause of death
Speaker 2: in me exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was overfeeding, there was all this other stuff,
Speaker 1: but it was also constantial. Basically, Lucy was the only
Speaker 1: one of two nurses on duty on several occasions. Lucy
Speaker 1: was a common denominator in these In the incidents, both
Speaker 1: prosecution and defense as well as Lucy agreed that the
Speaker 1: insulin levels found in the infants could not have been
Speaker 1: possible without the sea peptide rising too. But all Lucy
Speaker 1: said in her defense was all I can do is
Speaker 1: speak for myself and that I did not do this bravely.
Speaker 1: Some of the parents testified in court, Oh god, those
Speaker 1: poor people. There was also testimony from another nurse who
Speaker 1: found Lucy watching and doing nothing to help in a
Speaker 1: clear emergency. Over the ten months each case was discussed
Speaker 1: a to Q, the prosecution was able to show a
Speaker 1: graph showing that each time a child collapsed or died,
Speaker 1: Lucy was there. The pattern was far too consistent for
Speaker 1: it to be a coincidence, every single one. The prosecution
Speaker 1: was very careful not to claim that this was statistical
Speaker 1: proof of her guilt, but it was one brick in
Speaker 1: the wall, although a very heavy one. The defense team,
Speaker 1: of course scrutinizes evidence, but not in a way that
Speaker 1: seemed to sway the jury. While this was really persuasive material,
Speaker 1: A group of setians stated after the trial that the
Speaker 1: data was essentially meaningless and flawed. They explained that the
Speaker 1: chart didn't control for basic variables, which child was the
Speaker 1: sickest on which days, which nurses were actually assigned to,
Speaker 1: which infants, which nurses regularly worked with the sickest children,
Speaker 1: and did look Ucy simply just work more ships. If
Speaker 1: you didn't control for those factors, then the chart is
Speaker 1: very misleading. It also shows a very small amount of data.
Speaker 1: In other words, they went with the assumption that Lucy
Speaker 1: was guilty and then leant into evidence to support that theory.
Speaker 1: Lucy spent fourteen days under cross examination. She was calm,
Speaker 1: maintained her innocence, softly spoken, and rarely showed any emotion.
Speaker 1: Her core defense was that she didn't do anything wrong
Speaker 1: and she was being used as a scapegoat for the
Speaker 1: wider failings within the ward. When she was pressed for specifics,
Speaker 1: she struggled to answer any kinds of questions or elaborate.
Speaker 1: You would expect her to have some kind of explanation
Speaker 1: in her defense, which she did.
Speaker 2: Not, especially after four years exactly of standing accused of something,
Speaker 2: if you really really didn't do it, you think you'd
Speaker 2: have a pretty clear argument as.
Speaker 1: To what you think happened exactly, you would. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was not persuasive enough for the jury. She said that
Speaker 1: it was all due to understaffing, a stressful environment, under
Speaker 1: resourcing which led to shortcuts being taken every time in
Speaker 1: medical procedures. This almost cemented her guilt. After ten months,
Speaker 1: the trial ended on the tenth of July twenty twenty three.
Speaker 1: The jury began their deliberations after twenty two days. They
Speaker 1: returned with a verdict twenty two day. On top of
Speaker 1: the ten months same jury throughout. On August thirteen, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three, the jury found her guilty of seven murders
Speaker 1: and six attempted murders. Three of the counts were left undecided.
Speaker 1: Lucy was sentenced on the twenty first of August twenty
Speaker 1: twenty three to fourteen life orders. She's only the fourth
Speaker 1: woman in British history to receive that kind of sentence,
Speaker 1: along with Myra Hinley and Rosemary w Wow. The court
Speaker 1: accepted her behavior as deliberate. This didn't bring back the losses,
Speaker 1: of course it didn't, and it wasn't a satisfying ending
Speaker 1: for anyone, because what was the fucking motive? Yes, birthdays
Speaker 1: never reached first steps, that never happened. Lucy refused to
Speaker 1: attend the verdict for her sentencing, she did not have
Speaker 1: to sit through witness statements. Lucy argued that she had
Speaker 1: PTSD from the trial. She also claimed that she suffered
Speaker 1: from anxiety so bad that she couldn't bear it anymore.
Speaker 1: The families ended up calling Lucy cowardly for not coming.
Speaker 1: She should take some accountability. The prosecution did not have
Speaker 1: to prove a motive. But the story doesn't end there.
Speaker 1: After the trial, online salutes and psychologists tried to answer
Speaker 1: the idea of motive. Yeah, because you're right.
Speaker 3: You don't have to prove a motive. But it is
Speaker 3: just human nature.
Speaker 1: Exactly you want to you want to answers, Oh God.
Speaker 1: One theory was that Lucy was seeking a thriller, wanting
Speaker 1: to play god. Others have argued that she had a
Speaker 1: fascination with causing grief and the emotional process of grieving.
Speaker 1: Did she become obsessed with this? Another theory is jealousy.
Speaker 1: She was thirty three, lived alone, and perhaps overcome with
Speaker 1: jealousy of happy families. Oh, I hate that theory. Fuck off.
Speaker 1: You can be thirty three and not have a family,
Speaker 1: and that doesn't make you kill people exactly. And that
Speaker 1: was his online sleuth coming out with all these different motives.
Speaker 1: One more theory is this might have been an attempt
Speaker 1: to get closer to a doctor who she was deeply
Speaker 1: interested in. After the events, the doctor would shower her
Speaker 1: with praise and say what a great job she did
Speaker 1: under high pressure. The doctor's name is written in her
Speaker 1: diary with love heart surrounding her. Oh. They grew closer
Speaker 1: and closer over time. Their interactions were very limited because
Speaker 1: he was married and had kids, and perhaps she engineered
Speaker 1: these events to get closer to him. Hope that's not true.
Speaker 1: When the case was unfolding, this particular doctor stood by
Speaker 1: her the whole time. Allegedly, when the case was unfolding,
Speaker 1: he even sent her a text you are one of
Speaker 1: the few nurses across the region, and I've worked pretty
Speaker 1: much everywhere that I could trust with my own children. Shit.
Speaker 1: He even offered to write her a statement to vouch
Speaker 1: for the quality of her care. He also kept her
Speaker 1: informed of the internal review about her that was happening
Speaker 1: and that was going on at the time, so she
Speaker 1: could stay ahead of.
Speaker 3: The game, which doesn't seem like doesn't.
Speaker 1: Seem legal dovent Anyway, when the doctor was called to testify,
Speaker 1: by this point though he had turned against her. Oh,
Speaker 1: this was one of the only times that Lucy herself
Speaker 1: showed emotion, breaking into tears, which kind of proves a
Speaker 1: little bit about that per So, even though she was
Speaker 1: being sentenced, the investigation still isn't over. Police continue to
Speaker 1: investigate and review her clinical footprint. How far did it go?
Speaker 1: New charges might still follow.
Speaker 3: Wow for damage cause exactly.
Speaker 1: In twenty twenty four, Lucy went through a retrial on
Speaker 1: baby K the assertion that the baby was active and
Speaker 1: might have dislodged it themselves, so dislodged this pipe. But
Speaker 1: she was found guilty in the retrial again and giving
Speaker 1: an additional life sentence. Since the trial, the hospital's implemented
Speaker 1: an entirely new senior management team.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I reckon.
Speaker 1: They still haven't lifted the restriction of accepting babies under
Speaker 1: the thirty two week gestation period.
Speaker 2: So even though someone an individual has been found guilty
Speaker 2: for being responsible for these, the hospital itself won't.
Speaker 1: Take apparently, Yeah, it's all understaffing since the trial. Sorry.
Speaker 1: The case has been likened to Harold Shipman, who killed
Speaker 1: over two hundred patients in the late nineteen nineties to
Speaker 1: early two thousands. Doctor death. Well, yeah, the British doctor. Yes, yes,
Speaker 1: in not the one that the TV show was based on.
Speaker 1: In February twenty twenty five, when a major press conference
Speaker 1: was held that Lucy sorry sorry. In twenty twenty five,
Speaker 1: a major press conference was held that Lucy let Be
Speaker 1: was in fact one hundred percent innocent. It was held
Speaker 1: by Dr Shue Lee, a Canadian professor, and fourteen international
Speaker 1: neo natal specialists independently. They said that they were deeply
Speaker 1: concerned about how the medical evidence had been interpreted at
Speaker 1: the time. Their conclusion was that there was no medical
Speaker 1: evidence whatsoever in any of the seventeen cases. In their view.
Speaker 1: They said that every single collapse or death was explained
Speaker 1: by natural causes or failure of care in an overstretched unit.
Speaker 1: During a press conference, doctor schue Lee said he disagreed
Speaker 1: when the retired pediatrician volunteered their services, so he disagreed
Speaker 1: completely with what they said. As for the alarm that
Speaker 1: was turned off, well that was the only one as
Speaker 1: it was only one of the nurse's testimonies. Another said
Speaker 1: that it wasn't turned off. The panel expanded on their
Speaker 1: findings and, like I said before, found Lucy one hundred
Speaker 1: percent innocent and that none of the cases were caused
Speaker 1: by direct hum. The panel offered the information freely for
Speaker 1: Lucy's defense to use. Her defense team took it extremely seriously,
Speaker 1: which means that Lucy could be eligible for retrial. In
Speaker 1: July twenty twenty five, police arrested three senior hospital staff
Speaker 1: members on suspicion of causing death of serious negligence. Their
Speaker 1: names have not been released as far as I could find,
Speaker 1: but is being taken extremely seriously Lucy. Lucy does now
Speaker 1: have a glimmer of hope in the future if she
Speaker 1: is indeed innocent. It also opens up families to a
Speaker 1: further hurt and anguish. Of course, it does there is
Speaker 1: a brand new Netflix documentary about this. By the time
Speaker 1: this is released, will be available. The tragedy of Lucy
Speaker 1: let Bee is not only in the lives lost, but
Speaker 1: is in how we deem the unthinkable that harm could
Speaker 1: come from someone whose role was to protect the most vulnerable.
Speaker 1: I'll do the harm could be from someone whose role
Speaker 1: was to protect the most vulnerable. Whether you believe her
Speaker 1: to be guilty or not, it either shows an evil,
Speaker 1: monstrous person, perhaps without a motive or deep seated issue
Speaker 1: within the NHS. If found guilty. Again is the reminder
Speaker 1: that cypistems built on trust must also be built on vigilance,
Speaker 1: because when a wolf wears the clothing of a healer,
Speaker 1: the cost of disbelief can be catastrophic. That g is
Speaker 1: the case of Lucy let Be and babies eight a Q,
Speaker 1: whose names have been suppressed, but the poor families are
Speaker 1: absolutely at the front of our minds in today's episode.
Speaker 2: Oh God, this is such an awful one, so hard
Speaker 2: to even kind of put into words what I think and.
Speaker 1: Feel about it. I know, I know, just so devastating.
Speaker 1: I mean so that I'm interested to see this documentary
Speaker 1: that's coming out. I mean, we're recording before it comes out.
Speaker 1: But what I was interested in because I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, she's guilty. And I started to write
Speaker 1: the story and then I went, imagine if she's not,
Speaker 1: like I mean, in a in a wild world where
Speaker 1: she's not, If these.
Speaker 2: It is the common she's there, but it is just
Speaker 2: a coincidence if that is the case.
Speaker 1: But if she is guilty, what a monster. I just
Speaker 1: don't understand the motive at all.
Speaker 2: No, but again, you don't know, that doesn't have to
Speaker 2: be proven. She would be you know, obviously not right
Speaker 2: in your head. I mean, oh god, I don't I
Speaker 2: feel weird even commenting on it.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've had very close friends have premature babies.
Speaker 3: I very close friends have stillbon babies.
Speaker 1: And that is my closest.
Speaker 3: Association with that, And that breaks my heart.
Speaker 1: Do you think about And.
Speaker 2: That's just an association with people who have been who've
Speaker 2: suffered through that.
Speaker 1: I cannot imagine.
Speaker 2: Someone losing a child and finding out that someone wants
Speaker 2: to blame for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so devastating. Yeah, absolutely, and and that just the
Speaker 1: families being there going this is the person. That's why
Speaker 1: kind of talking about the wolf at the start, because
Speaker 1: it is like, that's literally the person, that's literally the
Speaker 1: person that was there, Like and if you see that,
Speaker 1: if the disguise you don't know that, of course not.
Speaker 1: Why would you ever question the person who's exactly and
Speaker 1: you know exactly yeah, like you know, put her life
Speaker 1: towards doing that.
Speaker 2: It's not a job like you know, you've got your
Speaker 2: office job and all, this is the job you've got
Speaker 2: to do today. No, that is like, you know, nurses
Speaker 2: are just the most incredible humans on earth, I think
Speaker 2: usually to make that decision to dedicate your life to
Speaker 2: literally saving people and doing their jobs that so many
Speaker 2: other people don't want to do because of their devastation,
Speaker 2: you'd see, it's so hard because I can't. It's really
Speaker 2: difficult to play devil's advocate to use that term again and.
Speaker 1: Go, oh, but what if she's not? But fuck, you're right, yeah,
Speaker 1: what if she's not?
Speaker 3: But I don't know, it's interesting, sorry to interrupt you.
Speaker 2: The thing about the panel of fourteen independent doctors that
Speaker 2: immediately my mind went to the Lindy Chamberlain case where
Speaker 2: independent people afterwards came to the fore and said, well,
Speaker 2: hang on, no, we don't think that because actually didn'go's
Speaker 2: behaviors are proven.
Speaker 1: To do this, blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: And that was a case of a lot of independent
Speaker 2: people coming out and saying, no, we work in the field,
Speaker 2: and we don't believe that. That's just given me a
Speaker 2: glimpse like a reminder of that. You also, like I
Speaker 2: just desperately want to have and trust in the legal system. Yeah,
Speaker 2: to believe that it did the right thing and it
Speaker 2: made the right decision.
Speaker 1: Who knows, you know, there could be another retroil, Like
Speaker 1: who knows that in you know, another ten years, people
Speaker 1: might be looking back and going what the hell? Like
Speaker 1: either way, like I mean, if she if she was
Speaker 1: found innocent, that's a wild thing to have happened. But
Speaker 1: also if she's found guilty, it's just such a monstrous,
Speaker 1: awful thing. Yes, you know, as a thirty three year
Speaker 1: old just you know, have done this and whatty three.
Speaker 3: By the time she was arrested as well, it was
Speaker 3: happening for three years.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And also like we all have to do
Speaker 1: the Harold Shipman at some point. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: the idea of this podcast is we have to space
Speaker 1: some of these episodes out of me. You know, we can't.
Speaker 1: We can't just do doctors. We can't do you know,
Speaker 1: because it is so awful to go through some of
Speaker 1: these and this one was particularly hard just to investigate
Speaker 1: and stuff, because it's like as you go into the
Speaker 1: graphic detail and the nature of it, you go, oh
Speaker 1: my god, like it is so awful, and there are
Speaker 1: other places to find that sort of information. We don't
Speaker 1: want to talk about that because it is so devastating,
Speaker 1: and I think I think I said enough in there.
Speaker 1: It's just like it it's so awful what these poor
Speaker 1: families went through. It's just horrible. Yeah, I'm looking forward
Speaker 1: to watching that documentary. Same, Yeah, I would be interested
Speaker 1: to see what what kind of conclusion they make in
Speaker 1: the documentary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, in articular, I don't know if my
Speaker 2: friends I won't say the names, but to my friends
Speaker 2: I know who listened to this podcast religiously, I don't
Speaker 2: know if they listened to this episode.
Speaker 1: They've both got children.
Speaker 2: And that this might be a bit too upsetting for them,
Speaker 2: But I know I have spoken to each of them
Speaker 2: about Lucy let Be before and they very much say,
Speaker 2: you know, she's a fucking monster, yes, yeah, yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the most horrible kind of monster you can even fathom. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: so that's certainly my you know, was my knowledge and
Speaker 2: understanding of the case before. So I'm really interested to
Speaker 2: see this documentary. I'm also interested to see how because
Speaker 2: we cast this offen with a documentary, it is, you know,
Speaker 2: there is always bias kind of.
Speaker 1: Brought to it. Whoever the filmmaker is, yes, will kind
Speaker 1: of welcome more.
Speaker 3: Is it?
Speaker 1: Really? That would be quite amazing. I wonder if they
Speaker 1: lean just keep talking about Flint, Michigan. Why about Flint
Speaker 1: Michigan so much? Now that's where you grew up.
Speaker 2: It's got nothing to do nothing, literally, I wonder if
Speaker 2: that will lean into or not lean into brother we'll
Speaker 2: explore the assertions that she may not be guilty, or
Speaker 2: if it's going no, these are the facts, this is
Speaker 2: what a jury has discovered.
Speaker 1: This, this is the fact she's a monster, which is
Speaker 1: you know, what they should do. I just find it
Speaker 1: interesting if they are so up to date and they
Speaker 1: discussed the review that was undertaken. I mean, it's really
Speaker 1: interesting that a panel came forward volunteered to say that,
Speaker 1: and that That's why I thought it was important to
Speaker 1: say that the original pediatrician did he was retired, but
Speaker 1: he did volunteer. Yes, so the police didn't go to him.
Speaker 1: He volunteered and that was his evidence that he found right.
Speaker 2: And so that could be seen as a coulde Yeah.
Speaker 1: That could be a strange thing. But also then you know,
Speaker 1: doctor Shirley from Canada came out and said there is
Speaker 1: no way that we can say this as and also
Speaker 1: included fourteen other neonatal specialists. I just find it really interesting.
Speaker 1: I just wonder what that compulsion was for them to
Speaker 1: come forward and say that, because why are you disagreeing
Speaker 1: with another? You know? And and the justice system was
Speaker 1: one month trials, yes, where they were found guilty. So
Speaker 1: that's that's I just found that really interesting as a
Speaker 1: kind of a footnote to this case that we don't
Speaker 1: know what's happened or by the leader of the all
Speaker 1: we do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's important to talk about It's interesting maybe
Speaker 2: to talk about the fact that other people disagree.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, wow, Yeah, isn't it a fascinating story if
Speaker 1: we're researching that one? Because I didn't want to yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: reasons for me is anything?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, oh god, it's just awful. It's just hort
Speaker 2: and the thing this is exactly what you said. No
Speaker 2: matter what comes out of that, it does not change
Speaker 2: the fact that these families have gone through this, and
Speaker 2: that they've lost their babies, oh my.
Speaker 1: God, and that you know, at the most critical time
Speaker 1: of their lives as well, you know, like it was
Speaker 1: the saddus. I want to end, and I wrote this
Speaker 1: again at the end, just my introduction for that. Again,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to read it the end again. Wolves
Speaker 1: are easy to spot, sharp teeth, yellow eyes, a hunger
Speaker 1: that shows itself in the way they move. But the
Speaker 1: most dangerous wolves learn early how to soften their steps,
Speaker 1: how to lower their gaze, how to wear gentleness like
Speaker 1: a borrowed skin. In this place, softness was the uniform.
Speaker 1: Voices stayed low, hands were careful, Smiles were meant to reassure.
Speaker 1: Lives small enough to fit in the crook of an
Speaker 1: arm depended on routines, trust, and the unspoken faith that
Speaker 1: those who stood what through the night were there to protect.
Speaker 1: No one thought to question the figure who blended so
Speaker 1: completely into that promise, who spoke the language of care fluently,
Speaker 1: who appeared when alarm sounded, who seemed to grieve when
Speaker 1: things went wrong. That was the story of a wolf
Speaker 1: in sheep's clothing, not one that proud on the edges,
Speaker 1: but one that stood at the center of the flock.
Speaker 1: It is a story about how evil does not always
Speaker 1: announce itself with noise or chaos, but sometimes arrives quietly,
Speaker 1: wrapped in kindness, waiting for the moment when no one
Speaker 1: is looking closely enough to see the teeth beneath the wall.
Speaker 1: We're back with a mail bag section in just a moment. Hey, everybody,
Speaker 1: it's a mail bag section.
Speaker 3: She eats a mail bag, eats the mail bag.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. The first Internet letter comes
Speaker 1: from gem up with a J. There's so many, so
Speaker 1: many gems and as Sammy and g this is Jemma
Speaker 1: with a J. But if you can call me Emma
Speaker 1: with a silent J whatever, hah. I want to commend
Speaker 1: you both for your story on the clut Up family murders,
Speaker 1: in particular not making a joke of the name Dick Hickcock.
Speaker 1: Incredible restraint and honestly I'm proud of you both. Thank you, girl.
Speaker 1: I have a question. Do you ever have a moment
Speaker 1: where you listen back to something and think, I wish
Speaker 1: I'd made that joke there. I re playing moments all
Speaker 1: the time in my head as well as making jokes
Speaker 1: along with YouTube. It really feels like this is a
Speaker 1: dinner party where you put out the extra chair for
Speaker 1: us lucky folk. Love you both, jem Emma with this island.
Speaker 3: JA, Oh my god, that's one of my favorite messages.
Speaker 1: That great.
Speaker 2: We love that really really really love when people say.
Speaker 2: It feels like they're yeah, that's what we do.
Speaker 1: That's also very funny.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought when we were talking about a horrible murderer,
Speaker 2: we shouldn't make a dick hickcock joke.
Speaker 1: But I mean it's there for you. I know, that's
Speaker 1: up to you. Off Mike, you can say that, you
Speaker 1: can giggle along kick. But she said, yeah, do you
Speaker 1: ever do you ever make jokes? You go, oh god,
Speaker 1: I wish I could. Oh yeah, so often. You know
Speaker 1: it's funny as well.
Speaker 2: I'll like listen back to my episodes because you do
Speaker 2: all the editing. Yeah, so you listen while you're editing.
Speaker 2: I will then listen to the finish thing when it's
Speaker 2: out there. You know, what's my theater and what's not
Speaker 2: for you know, when people message us and to respond
Speaker 2: and everything and I'll hear you say something, and as
Speaker 2: I'm listening, like in my car or whatever, I'll kind
Speaker 2: of in my head comment what I think of a comment,
Speaker 2: and then I hear myself in the recording comment.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, oh, yeah, I am.
Speaker 2: Just myself and that because I've thought of the same
Speaker 2: comeback right now as well.
Speaker 1: And I already did this one come from Nicola. What
Speaker 1: a fabulous episode. This is a John Ronson episode. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: John Ronson. John brons from John Ronson is such an
Speaker 1: interesting man. Really appreciate this great listen. Thank you, I
Speaker 1: mean Georgia, Oh, thank you. We love, we love John Ronson.
Speaker 1: That was so much fun. Oh.
Speaker 2: I went straight to work after that recording, and I
Speaker 2: was a bit hag and I went and I was.
Speaker 1: Like, I'm sorry, actually no, no, I wasn't late.
Speaker 2: But it was one of their girl's birthdays, so I
Speaker 2: had said if I could come in early, I would,
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: Said sorry, I didn't make the birthday cake a bit
Speaker 1: but and I was like this, guess who I just interviewed,
Speaker 1: John ron said, And.
Speaker 3: Everyone was like, oh, I don't know who.
Speaker 1: That is something to say everyone. There was just a
Speaker 1: couple of people work like, oh, I don't know who
Speaker 1: that is. Sorry, And I was like, don't take away
Speaker 1: my sparkle. I was so excited coming behigh of that.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Those people are uncle, yeah, grow up.
Speaker 1: They don't know. This one comes from Vicky. You ready
Speaker 1: for this.
Speaker 7: I thought i'd ring an ad for the person that
Speaker 7: wrote in about the movie Evil Angels that it came
Speaker 7: from a book called Evil Angels by John Bryson has
Speaker 7: a lot of information about the investigations as well. For
Speaker 7: my memory, I had to study it in the early
Speaker 7: nineties for Year twelve English.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, So that's about the one about Lindy
Speaker 2: and Michael Chambers.
Speaker 1: Actually, my sister said to me.
Speaker 2: About the film, about the film, Yes, yeah, even Angels,
Speaker 2: she said, that's why that cat cry.
Speaker 1: You know, the catchphrase the Dingo's got my baby.
Speaker 2: That's why that's so famous infamous America was because of
Speaker 2: Meryl Streep saying it.
Speaker 1: In the movie. Oh wow, that's.
Speaker 2: Why it's misquoted because apparently in the movie she says
Speaker 2: something goes stole my baby or whatever the misquoting is
Speaker 2: that she says in the movie. And that's why on
Speaker 2: like Seinfeld and The Simpsons and stuff that's so quoted
Speaker 2: as the Australian thing because it's Meryl Streep doing it
Speaker 2: in this Australian accent and.
Speaker 1: That kind of that's kind of what made it even
Speaker 1: more famous than just the itself check because we have
Speaker 1: said we want to watch. I just can't imagine it's good.
Speaker 1: I know, I.
Speaker 2: Feel like, if Meryl Streeps and it's about a famous
Speaker 2: Australian case, why haven't we seen it?
Speaker 1: I know, I know, it's so funny. I saw a
Speaker 1: meme the other day that had like just a dog
Speaker 1: on the chair and it said on the back of
Speaker 1: its Meryl Street fay o this. Are there any move Like,
Speaker 1: is there a movie that you haven't seen that? Everyone
Speaker 1: is really surprised. You haven't seen Hate Rivalry? That's no movie,
Speaker 1: baby girl? Yeah? Probably. I mean I haven't seen what
Speaker 1: good Fellows. I haven't seen good Fellows. Oh yeah, I know,
Speaker 1: I neither of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this will surprise you because you know my beautiful
Speaker 2: friend Shannade who lives in Lonnie, who I was just
Speaker 2: hanging out with for the weekend. Now, if you think
Speaker 2: I love musical theater, Shannaide is like a singing, walking, talking,
Speaker 2: singing dancing version of me.
Speaker 1: She hasn't seen Spirited. She hasn't seen high school musical.
Speaker 2: Oh I discovered this today, thirteen years she has not
Speaker 2: seen high school musical. Like, hang on, Sammy, you haven't
Speaker 2: seen high school musical?
Speaker 1: No, Okay, well guess that.
Speaker 2: Makes way more sense than it does Shade, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't make sense as my best person, my best person,
Speaker 2: my best friend, and I was thinking your favorite person.
Speaker 1: I just got to.
Speaker 2: So you are my best person. We're watching high school
Speaker 2: musical together?
Speaker 1: Okay? Like I think for like TV shows and stuff
Speaker 1: for more, like I haven't seen Breaking Bad. I haven't
Speaker 1: seen those sorts of shows. I'm like, yeah, but films,
Speaker 1: I don't know the film. It's like two hours. Breaking
Speaker 1: Bad is like a big commitment that into it. But
Speaker 1: a movie. I've never seen a star War. Oh, I
Speaker 1: love a star War. I've only seen one James Bond,
Speaker 1: have you? Yeah?
Speaker 2: When the last one is the only one I've seen
Speaker 2: where spoiler alerts Boilerhead skip ahead if you don't if
Speaker 2: you haven't seen it, the one where he dies.
Speaker 1: So I was very confused.
Speaker 2: I was confused by everyone being like shook us at
Speaker 2: that because I was like, does that.
Speaker 1: Not noting every filming, every film. Hey, we've got two
Speaker 1: voice smails, but it's part one and part two, and
Speaker 1: it comes from someone I've heard from before four and
Speaker 1: I really believe like them. Love their name Woody.
Speaker 6: Hello friends, it is your favorite long winded listener and
Speaker 6: caller Woody.
Speaker 1: Today.
Speaker 6: With respect to the recent episode on the Cecil Hotel
Speaker 6: or the Cecil Hotel, both pronunciations.
Speaker 1: Are correct depending now.
Speaker 6: But also my call, funnily enough, is about pronunciation.
Speaker 1: Because my actual name is Alisa, like Alisa Lamb in
Speaker 1: the episode Lisa Lamb. Mine is spelt eb l I
Speaker 1: s A. Who's is e l s A?
Speaker 6: But I wanted to call and congratulate you, Georgia. Beautiful pronunciation,
Speaker 6: Georgia if you were giving her of Alisa. I did
Speaker 6: end up changing throughout the episode a few times and
Speaker 6: started calling her Alissa.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is.
Speaker 6: Actually my Hawdrey peeve mispronunciate my neme because I think
Speaker 6: Alissa should have a doubles right. Yes, it really peeves
Speaker 6: me when people get it wrong. Yeah, fair enough, you
Speaker 6: were doing so beautifully, but I swear.
Speaker 1: You have to go back get the receipts.
Speaker 6: I'm sure you jump around a little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah I did. Anyway, still love your work. It was
Speaker 1: an awesome episode. But go back and have listen. Oh,
Speaker 1: Alisa Woodie, we love you.
Speaker 7: I did.
Speaker 1: I realized when I was listening back to what I
Speaker 1: said Alyssa. A couple of times.
Speaker 2: I think I was like questioning myself between Cecil and Cecil,
Speaker 2: I questioned whether it was a Lisa. But right because
Speaker 2: the name so l I s A is Lisa, so
Speaker 2: with an in front of that is Alisa.
Speaker 1: So thank you for crediting me. Sorry for also getting
Speaker 1: it wrong as well. While we have part two of
Speaker 1: this speak pipe as well, that comes from our good
Speaker 1: friend Woody, and I'm a Lisa Woody, the one in
Speaker 1: the same ready for this, Yes.
Speaker 6: Hello, sorry it's Woody again. I just need to clarify.
Speaker 6: I am aware that mispronunciate is not a word I
Speaker 6: said in my previous speak pipe. Embarrassing anyway, I guess
Speaker 6: it serves me right for going in and correcting you love.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so funny because if she didn't clarify,
Speaker 2: I assumed it was Joe Dad.
Speaker 1: See, you know what you've got to meet when you're wrong.
Speaker 1: And if I ever am I will we love a
Speaker 1: second part as well. Looks like when you take someone
Speaker 1: and you walk off in the same direction. Oh, just
Speaker 1: one more thing. This comes from Matt, Sammy, P and
Speaker 1: g Love. I thoroughly enjoyed when I'm casually playing a
Speaker 1: video game Final Fantasy and I can't help but read
Speaker 1: the flavor text of a quest. As said in your podcast,
Speaker 1: I implore you your magistrates, and there is there is
Speaker 1: a great screenshot here where it says I employed, I
Speaker 1: employs We love. We don't know anything about gaming, but
Speaker 1: we now we know that that game says I employ
Speaker 1: you at the end. I know, but it's a Final
Speaker 1: Fantasy online. But XIV online? What's that? What do you
Speaker 1: mean Roman numerals? Fifteen fifteen online? Is that what it is?
Speaker 1: Fifteen fifteen XIV no x whatever. I'm online mathematicians. Basically,
Speaker 1: Math's not my strong boy in English or Roman? Have
Speaker 1: we got this one from Rain? Hello? Sorry, I don't
Speaker 1: have Instagram, so I'm sending an old fashioned email about Alisa, Lisa, Lisa,
Speaker 1: about Elisa and how she managed to get into the
Speaker 1: water tank. It looks like there is access from the
Speaker 1: roof of the hotel itself. It would have taken a
Speaker 1: lot of efforts, so I don't think it answers every question,
Speaker 1: but it does look like she could have gotten up
Speaker 1: there somehow then easily jumped onto the tank or from
Speaker 1: the hotel next the hotel next door. Also, I remember
Speaker 1: watching a YouTube video from someone who wanted to see
Speaker 1: if they could get up the water tanks themselves. Apparently
Speaker 1: the door to the rooftop was left wide open. I
Speaker 1: don't think security is great at the hotel. In my opinion,
Speaker 1: A Lisa's story is a very tragic accident, and I
Speaker 1: think it's awful that she was so far from home
Speaker 1: and clearly suffering from a scary mental health episode. I
Speaker 1: definitely got sucked into this because when it first broke,
Speaker 1: but when it first broke, but now it makes me sad.
Speaker 1: Love the podcast, guys, Thank you for your hard work.
Speaker 1: And she's actually attached our photos of people in the
Speaker 1: in the the water tanks there as well. Try trying
Speaker 1: to do it. We've got two more. Let's end on
Speaker 1: two more. Got our Dean. Hey ya, guys, love your work.
Speaker 1: I wanted to write in with a theory about that
Speaker 1: Lisa Lamb case. People are obsessed with the believe that
Speaker 1: Elisa witnessed something that she shouldn't have done soon after
Speaker 1: arriving at the hotel. The trauma of what she witness
Speaker 1: triggered something with their mental health and led to a
Speaker 1: strange behavior in the lead up to her disappearance. I
Speaker 1: think she was tracked down and killed because of what
Speaker 1: she witnessed. A lot of people seem to think of
Speaker 1: the murder versus mental health situation as separate theories, but
Speaker 1: I think both are not only plausible, but the most
Speaker 1: logical explanation for a future EP. Would love for you
Speaker 1: to do one on the Uber County five. It's one
Speaker 1: of the weirdest cases out. Why you be a of
Speaker 1: the weirdest cases I've ever heard, and so much about
Speaker 1: it is battling love your work and love how you've
Speaker 1: taken a different approach to the true crime podcast. Love
Speaker 1: Yours Dean from Melbourne, Love you Dean from Melbourne. Yeah absolutely,
Speaker 1: I'm going to end on Stephanie, Hi, Sammy and Georgia.
Speaker 1: Happy anniversary. You guys should be proud. What an impressive
Speaker 1: milestone as a lady of impeccable podcast tastes who considers
Speaker 1: herself to be a Day one listener NACP is the best.
Speaker 1: I love listening every week and I'm really proud of
Speaker 1: you both. At the top of the episode, Sammy always says,
Speaker 1: keep leaving five star reviews, and I would, but bloody
Speaker 1: Apple only lets you have one. Go anyway, keep up
Speaker 1: the awesome work. We love and appreciate you. Steph. How
Speaker 1: nice is that? And then she writes, ps tell g
Speaker 1: to check her igdms. She's missing so many hilarious slash
Speaker 1: horrendous replies to hersors in my humble opinion, Sorry, is
Speaker 1: how great is that? That's so funny? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's amazing. Isn't that the best? We absolutely love hearing
Speaker 1: from you listeners, So please do right in Sammy at
Speaker 1: just Another company dot com dot au leave us a
Speaker 1: goddamn voicemail. You can do that. All the links are below.
Speaker 1: You can watch us on YouTube. All these episode go up.
Speaker 1: Episodes go up on there. What should they do? Should
Speaker 1: they leave a five star rating?
Speaker 2: Living Yes, they need to leave a five star rating,
Speaker 2: five star review and follow us on TikTok and Instagram
Speaker 2: and YouTube add not another crime podcast, and then they
Speaker 2: need to also tell us.
Speaker 1: A poordtery bee. Oh god, you love would you love
Speaker 1: to tell me a poueldry peece for today.
Speaker 2: So I have one that has been influenced by my
Speaker 2: weekend away at the festival, the festival, of course, and
Speaker 2: it's actually a double edged powdry peeve. So there are
Speaker 2: two peeves, but they are the opposite of each other.
Speaker 1: So I do realize that there's no way of fixing it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because both options of what happened now peeve me okay, yeah, yep.
Speaker 2: The first part of it is encuse bands doing encuse
Speaker 2: because it's like, just play all your song, Like, obviously,
Speaker 2: if you haven't played your biggest song, we don't believe
Speaker 2: that you're actually leaving, right, don't waste our.
Speaker 1: Time, don't you don't need to big up your own
Speaker 1: e all screen.
Speaker 2: But the one side of that is because that is
Speaker 2: so common I have found out when Boy and Bear
Speaker 2: performed on Sunday.
Speaker 3: I found a new peeve, and that is when there
Speaker 3: is no one.
Speaker 1: Call okay, really flipped it. It's now such an expected
Speaker 1: thing on course, So.
Speaker 2: When they thank you and then they walked off and
Speaker 2: then they didn't come back, I.
Speaker 1: Was like, oh, okay, I guess that's it. Jeeve is the.
Speaker 2: Former I don't like encorse they're unnecessary, but because they're
Speaker 2: so common now.
Speaker 1: There is a new people, which is when they don't
Speaker 1: do that.
Speaker 2: I think Boy and Man needs to be setting the
Speaker 2: trend and everyone needs to follow them.
Speaker 1: Just play your best songs and get out, and you
Speaker 1: can get out well. I will say a similar thing
Speaker 1: in that shows that go way over. So during a
Speaker 1: season or something like a festival season or something, you're
Speaker 1: going to see a comedy show comedy festival, and that
Speaker 1: goes ten minutes over, So the next show goes ten
Speaker 1: minutes over, and you're trying to get to the next show.
Speaker 1: And I did it myself. So when I recorded my
Speaker 1: show at the I recorded it for the Comedy of You,
Speaker 1: the YouTube channel. I went so over, you peeved yourself. Well,
Speaker 1: I didn't even know that I went over. The reason
Speaker 1: that I went over is because our good friend Joe
Speaker 1: Creasy messaged me and said I wanted to stay for
Speaker 1: the ending, but it just went like it went way over.
Speaker 1: I was like, no, I didn't. And because I so
Speaker 1: up on the it was just after daylight savings and
Speaker 1: they hadn't changed the clock up the top, so I
Speaker 1: thought I was way under and I was going, oh no,
Speaker 1: oh my god, and I finished the show going, oh shit,
Speaker 1: do I remember everything? So I remember everything, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I remember. And then I looked at my watch. I
Speaker 1: was like, oh no, and I gone like, yeah, I've
Speaker 1: gone to full like fifteen minutes over or something like
Speaker 1: more than that. But because of the show had an
Speaker 1: opening and all these other stuff and we started to
Speaker 1: film and everything, so that went way over. But oh
Speaker 1: my god, and so yeah, I did it myself. And
Speaker 1: so when you peeve myself. But when you're like at
Speaker 1: a comedy festival or something and you've lined up to
Speaker 1: see two or three shows that night, you've only got it.
Speaker 1: You've only got ten minutes, and it's really hard when
Speaker 1: something goes over and you have to run as quickly
Speaker 1: as you came to the next one, and you missed
Speaker 1: like the first five minutes of that one. I did
Speaker 1: that once when I was maybe fifteen years old, no,
Speaker 1: maybe fifteen or sixteen, must have been fifteen, and came
Speaker 1: up to the city and my brother and I went
Speaker 1: to go and see Judith Lucy, and that the deal
Speaker 1: was I got to pick one and he got to
Speaker 1: pick one. So we went to see Judith Lucy obviously
Speaker 1: was my choice and his was Archbarker. Just in case
Speaker 1: huch Barker is listening. I don't hate you, but I
Speaker 1: don't hate edge Barker. You wouldn't have chosen I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have chosen urge Baker. And so we're walking out of
Speaker 1: we have to leave early because like it's like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, Judith Lucy started ten minutes later, bah blah blah.
Speaker 1: And we're walking out and I really don't want to
Speaker 1: walk out, and we have to walk out, and Jude
Speaker 1: Lucy leans down in mine and my brother's face because
Speaker 1: had to pass her to walk out, had to go
Speaker 1: by the stage to walk the door. And she leans
Speaker 1: down and she goes, what are you doing? And we
Speaker 1: went I went, oh, my brother book tickets to go
Speaker 1: and see another show, and Judith goes, who is it?
Speaker 1: Then and then my brother said arch Barker, and she goes,
Speaker 1: arch Barker, He's not even fucking funny. And then and
Speaker 1: then as we were leaving, she just kept shouting, he's
Speaker 1: not even fucking funny. She goes, I'm a legend. I
Speaker 1: was like, you are. I'm so sorry, my queen, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry, my beautiful queen, the best comedian in the
Speaker 1: world in my opinion, yelling at us the arch Barker's
Speaker 1: not funny. I was like, I a great, I A
Speaker 1: great I had I couldn't be in the sit by
Speaker 1: myself anyway. Thank you everyone for quickly talking about comedians.
Speaker 3: And a shout out to our good friend Joel Crazy
Speaker 3: you just brought up.
Speaker 1: Yeah, shout out to Joel Creasy.
Speaker 2: He is just announcing he's got his own national radio show,
Speaker 2: lunch Times, starting I think in April.
Speaker 3: So congratulations to our friend Joel.
Speaker 1: Congratulations to our friend Joe.
Speaker 2: Congratulations to our friend Joel even though he is on
Speaker 2: a competing network to me.
Speaker 1: And also the other thing is that we hope that
Speaker 1: you enjoy the documentary on Lucy let Be as well.
Speaker 1: Thank you for this awful, awful story this week, but
Speaker 1: we'll see you next week. Listeners. I'm going to make
Speaker 1: Sammy wat cheated rivalry this week. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: We're going to the Cottage Baby Talk Book Talk Star