WEBVTT - Lucy Letby 

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<v Speaker 1>On the tenth of October twenty and twenty two, a

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<v Speaker 1>thirty three year old neonatal nurse was on trial. She

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<v Speaker 1>was charged with seven counts of murder and ten cases

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<v Speaker 1>of attempted murder, all which took place at the Countess

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<v Speaker 1>of Chester Hospital between twenty fifteen and twenty sixteen. The

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<v Speaker 1>magnitude of this story cannot be understated. The victims were

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<v Speaker 1>just babies. This is the case of Britain's most prolific

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<v Speaker 1>female child serial killer, Lucy let Be. It's just a

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<v Speaker 1>disgusting story, it really is.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you'll tell it well, but I know the

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<v Speaker 2>case and it's absolutely horrific.

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<v Speaker 1>You're ready. Not really, Oh but I.

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<v Speaker 2>Was getting some kisses on my knee from Diggs just then,

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<v Speaker 2>so that's going to notice.

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<v Speaker 1>He knows that we're going to need some support through

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<v Speaker 1>this year. Yeah. Absolutely. Hey there, everybody, welcome to not

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<v Speaker 1>Another Crime podcast. I'm Georgia LUs, I'm Sammy Peterson. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>a journalist. I am not, but you are.

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<v Speaker 3>A damn good person.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for saying that. Dig Dig just opened my legs.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't like that at all. That's very weird. He's

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<v Speaker 1>just looking in on you. Can tap him on the

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<v Speaker 1>nose if you want to stop. It's quite nice.

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<v Speaker 3>I've been away for three days.

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<v Speaker 1>And he's missed me. He missed you. It's actually really nice.

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<v Speaker 1>I did the same at the door. Yes, kissed my

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<v Speaker 1>legs looking motion. It's lovely as you do what you're

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<v Speaker 1>always Hey.

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<v Speaker 2>Guys, if you don't want to listen to us talking

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<v Speaker 2>about this kind of stuff, you can skip ahead to

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<v Speaker 2>just listen to the story.

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<v Speaker 1>The time is in the show is it is? And

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<v Speaker 1>I heard from our stickers by Claude today. She was

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<v Speaker 1>very excited to hear everything on the podcast last week

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<v Speaker 1>and was very excited that we read out her letter

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<v Speaker 1>and opened the stickers yet again. We love them.

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<v Speaker 2>And guess what, we actually got more stickers this weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>Magnets from a beautiful list of Alice named Emily, who

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<v Speaker 2>has left us big.

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<v Speaker 1>Pipe on the pod before. Yes, she has.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was down in my favorite place on Earth, Tasmania,

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<v Speaker 2>for a food and wine festival, and this gorgeous girl

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<v Speaker 2>came up to me with an envelope in her hands

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<v Speaker 2>that said to Sammy and g and Digs and Paudry

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<v Speaker 2>and our beautiful listener Emilie heard me talking about fact

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<v Speaker 2>that was going to this food and wine for in

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<v Speaker 2>Lonceston and brought a gift with her of stickers and

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<v Speaker 2>magnets that she had.

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<v Speaker 3>Made for us and found me at the.

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<v Speaker 2>Festival and gave me them. And I will say, first

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<v Speaker 2>of all, a huge thank you to Emily. You were

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<v Speaker 2>so sweet and it's just so beautiful to think of us.

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<v Speaker 3>At all at alone bring me presents, and it's.

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<v Speaker 1>So lovely to meet listeners out in the wild.

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<v Speaker 2>But can I say, Sammy p I'm never going to

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<v Speaker 2>be able to travel without you ever again, because over

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<v Speaker 2>the three days I.

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<v Speaker 1>Need to send me to carry my things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I had an overwhelming number of people come up

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<v Speaker 2>to me and first of all say they listened to

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<v Speaker 2>the podcast, which made me so happy.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone said, we're Sammy.

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<v Speaker 2>We thought he would be here, So you had Gareth,

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<v Speaker 2>I did have my friend girl. And we're not allowed

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<v Speaker 2>to travel alone anymore.

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<v Speaker 3>So I'm booking your festival ticket for next year right now.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much. You're in advance. Was it amazing?

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<v Speaker 1>It was so funny. It is just the most fun weekend.

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<v Speaker 1>This is not spoon anyway. British India and Boy and

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<v Speaker 1>Bear with a music act.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, ye, fantastic music obviously, fantastic food and wine

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<v Speaker 2>because it's Tasmanian.

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<v Speaker 1>The weather was beautiful.

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<v Speaker 2>It's just in a big park in City Park and

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<v Speaker 2>lncestein and there's food and wine stalls and different stages

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<v Speaker 2>set up everywhere, and you just like pick a spot

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<v Speaker 2>for the day. And we just like had our little crew.

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<v Speaker 2>There were four of us, and then just had friends

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<v Speaker 2>that live in Tazzy kind of come and go and

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<v Speaker 2>join us for a couple of hours and then you know,

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<v Speaker 2>move on some rails and we'd have other friends come

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<v Speaker 2>and it was just three days of just drinking and

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<v Speaker 2>chatting and catching up and a.

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<v Speaker 1>Son, you have a hot jam donut. I did not

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<v Speaker 1>have a single hot jam donut.

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<v Speaker 2>I had some, okay, no churros, you know, man, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>not a sweet.

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<v Speaker 1>Scallop, That's true. There is a store the whole cake

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<v Speaker 1>to yourself, the whole birthday cake, and in the rain crying.

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<v Speaker 4>Correct a stall there with the funniest name I've ever seen,

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<v Speaker 4>because it just like in no way makes sense from

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<v Speaker 4>what I can ascertain.

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<v Speaker 1>And that right that broke the internet.

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<v Speaker 2>The stalls called smallest Pancakes.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw your proper that this smallest pancakes saying the

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<v Speaker 1>same thing over and again. Explain yourself. I can't explain it.

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<v Speaker 1>It doesn't make sense. It doesn't explain it.

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<v Speaker 3>So funny smallest pancakes.

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<v Speaker 1>Festivals with pancakes, pancakes, and they make them for festivals.

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<v Speaker 2>Do know? Doesn't make any sense. And me and my

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<v Speaker 2>grammar nerd friends the funniest thing.

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<v Speaker 1>No, you didn't want to find the answers better left

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<v Speaker 1>and that's my humor.

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<v Speaker 2>Too many pluralles, I think is top dear, that's so funny.

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<v Speaker 1>Can you tell me about your weekend? I had my

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<v Speaker 1>own festivallet here at home. Diggs and I had a

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<v Speaker 1>bottle of jams. We danced Hungry Jack's on the weekend.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh my, sorry about that.

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<v Speaker 3>So Jans is a Tasmanian wine.

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<v Speaker 1>Correct. Guess what they didn't have at festival chance they

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<v Speaker 1>haven't done a few years, because.

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<v Speaker 2>They have not done FESTIVALI and this is my formal

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<v Speaker 2>complaint to Jens. Go back to festivaly, please please, There

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<v Speaker 2>is no way you're not making enough money from it,

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<v Speaker 2>because my family and I and all their friends have

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<v Speaker 2>I'm certain kept you in here. Yes, if you need

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<v Speaker 2>us to pay more per bottle. We actually always comment

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<v Speaker 2>on the fact that it's cellar door prices, but at

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<v Speaker 2>food and Wine festival like it's wild, it's so good,

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<v Speaker 2>so we always commented about the fact that it was

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<v Speaker 2>really affordable. If you need a bump up the prices,

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<v Speaker 2>We're still going to buy it.

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<v Speaker 1>To promise. The girls from Jams came to my comedy

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<v Speaker 1>festival show The Best Emily Fitzgerald, who I bloody loved.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know why I said her last name Emily,

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<v Speaker 1>and then during oh yeah, then they took me out

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<v Speaker 1>for drinks at another time and went out to there.

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<v Speaker 1>They had like a food and wine day in Melbourne

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<v Speaker 1>and they took me out for that. I drank my

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<v Speaker 1>body weight because it was so much fun, and then

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<v Speaker 1>I was like, like they invited us there, me and

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<v Speaker 1>my friend Brom But then it was also like we

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<v Speaker 1>shouldn't drink too m because it will make fools of

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<v Speaker 1>ourselves and everything. And the only two people that were

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<v Speaker 1>drinking and not spitting into buckets because there was everyone

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<v Speaker 1>was professional andons has reminded me of what can we

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<v Speaker 1>do spitting in a bucket?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? Can we a big rest in pieces to Catherine.

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<v Speaker 1>O'Hara, what's thetoons? What's that?

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<v Speaker 2>My favorite line from Ship's Creek is when she said

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<v Speaker 2>that she took her daughter Alexis on a holiday to

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<v Speaker 2>France and Alexis goes, yeah, I was eight and it

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<v Speaker 2>was a whine tour, and she goes, well, you could

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<v Speaker 2>have used the spittoons like the other children.

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<v Speaker 1>I haven't seen all the Ship's Creek what yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, well once we're through sea change, you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Because Katherine Ohara, I'm a huge fan of her from

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<v Speaker 1>improvised films. So the reason I love her is because

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<v Speaker 1>she was in your waiting for Waiting for her, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to golfin whatever that is, waiting for Guffman

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<v Speaker 1>a mighty wind show, Best in Show for your consideration.

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<v Speaker 1>She did so many amazing films where she acted in them,

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<v Speaker 1>but it was improvised, and she's just the funniest person

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<v Speaker 1>in every film. And then and then you know Beatlejuice

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<v Speaker 1>Home Alone, like just an incredible actor, absolutely amazing. I

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<v Speaker 1>didn't know that she like she's so she was so

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<v Speaker 1>young as well, like she was just in the studio

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<v Speaker 1>the TV show, remember, I know, like like in the

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<v Speaker 1>last year yeah, and it was just incredible, a huge,

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<v Speaker 1>huge shock. Yeah, absolutely, you know our time.

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<v Speaker 3>In Australia waking up and opening up social media and that's.

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<v Speaker 1>All that was. I know. Yeah, really, I very.

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<v Speaker 3>Rarely get kind of affected by celebrity dance.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah it's sad, but I don't know them, and inact me,

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<v Speaker 2>this one really really Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>She seemed like a beautiful person, like she seemed just

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<v Speaker 1>so lovely and.

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<v Speaker 3>Said she's just yeah, yeah, like you said, we didn't

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<v Speaker 3>know she was sick.

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<v Speaker 1>She was only seventy one, I know, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>I think with like Rob Ryaner and like, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>it is it is such an awful, awful time in

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<v Speaker 1>general really and then and then you know these deaths.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, he's got oh my god, like a comedy

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<v Speaker 1>and other comedy legend that was just like inspired everybody,

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<v Speaker 1>like Katine haha, like kind of the understated person in comedy. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>every single everyone was like, oh, yeah, she's the funniest

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<v Speaker 1>person in the world. But everyone said that about it.

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<v Speaker 1>I kind of feel something about Julia Louis Dreyfuss. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>she's the funniest person. She never get number one, though,

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<v Speaker 1>but she is like when you actually got to think

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<v Speaker 1>of her. Yeah, Julie Luid Dreyfit's amazing. Yeah, that is

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<v Speaker 1>very book in at the moment.

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<v Speaker 2>And the character, the main character's cat is called Julia

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<v Speaker 2>Luis Dreyfust.

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<v Speaker 1>It's good a cat name, isn't it. I like it? God,

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<v Speaker 1>we used to laugh. Hey we still lia We still laugh?

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<v Speaker 1>Can we talk about that?

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<v Speaker 2>This is not a funny topic. This is very serious

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<v Speaker 2>to me. The last time we recorded, yes, you said,

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<v Speaker 2>well I was away, yep.

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<v Speaker 1>In Lon Sesston, you were going to watch he did Rivalry?

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<v Speaker 1>Did you do it? Can't tell you what I watched

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<v Speaker 1>it instead? Morning was You've never what warning was before?

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<v Speaker 1>Now now I watched an episode back in the day,

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<v Speaker 1>one episode one fantastic. It's so good. Yes, that's what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm saying. First season, watch that you got hungry Jacks

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<v Speaker 1>drank Jans, had a dance party with and watched Weekend

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<v Speaker 1>of My Life one had a mental breakdown. I watched,

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<v Speaker 1>I watched That's what. I had a mental collapse, just

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<v Speaker 1>dancing with digs More. Morning was give me no, But

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<v Speaker 1>so I had that on and I got up to

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<v Speaker 1>the second season. Isn't the first season brilliant? It's amazing.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't I don't really know where the second season

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<v Speaker 1>is going, but I'm loving it so far. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that's how much I watched so No, in answer to

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<v Speaker 1>your question, I haven't watched Heated Rivalry, but I've seen

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<v Speaker 1>many memoirs about it. I've seen many gifts about it.

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<v Speaker 1>I've seen so much going on with these two homosexual

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<v Speaker 1>men who play hockey, and I can't wait to see

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<v Speaker 1>these two homosexual men play hockey, make love, fall in love,

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<v Speaker 1>and go to the cottage. That's all I all about it.

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<v Speaker 2>He knows my close personal friend, Connor Story is hosting

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<v Speaker 2>SNL this week.

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<v Speaker 1>My close personal friend connors Story, Connor Story. Yes is

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<v Speaker 1>their actual name? Yes? And who's that if? And that's

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<v Speaker 1>one of the characters, one of the main gays. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>I get it now.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, he's hosting SNL. Oh, so we can maybe watch

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<v Speaker 2>that as you like. Entry into the problem with you

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<v Speaker 2>not watching it while I wasn't here. Now I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to have to watch it with you, and I'm going

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<v Speaker 2>to be absolutely like heinous to watch it with Oh.

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<v Speaker 1>My god, we've got two nights together this week before

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<v Speaker 1>you head off again and go to Tasmania again.

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<v Speaker 3>This weekend this week and I have a wine festival

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<v Speaker 3>in Hobar.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm working at this one. This one is a job,

0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:50.920
<v Speaker 1>not just pleas here. But that doesn't any way be

0:11:50.920 --> 0:11:52.120
<v Speaker 1>doing the worm on the dance floor.

0:11:52.760 --> 0:11:54.400
<v Speaker 3>Try to bring in the two.

0:11:55.120 --> 0:12:00.400
<v Speaker 2>If you can't work, to work and you can't have pleasure,

0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:01.160
<v Speaker 2>I have work.

0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.760
<v Speaker 3>You know, as they say, that's actually.

0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.280
<v Speaker 1>Going to be on my tombstone? Could that be your

0:12:06.360 --> 0:12:08.199
<v Speaker 1>catchphrase or not? Cat trase? But what what you say

0:12:08.200 --> 0:12:11.160
<v Speaker 1>when they say madam business or pleasure and you say both?

0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:14.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean for the wine festival? Is that good? You

0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.120
<v Speaker 1>could say that that could be kind of fun. You

0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.840
<v Speaker 1>could say that no, no heated rivalry just yet. But guys,

0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:21.720
<v Speaker 1>can you bully Sammy with me? Please?

0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:24.960
<v Speaker 2>Get onto your Instagram at Sammy Peterson Unofficial. Get onto

0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.319
<v Speaker 2>our Instagram and our TikTok YouTube not another crime podcast.

0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:33.200
<v Speaker 1>Can you freely follow that? You can anyone freely follow that? Yes?

0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:34.480
<v Speaker 1>Can you just freely follow that?

0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:37.520
<v Speaker 2>Freely follow it? And it is free to follow. You

0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:38.520
<v Speaker 2>don't even have to pay for.

0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:40.160
<v Speaker 1>It, rightn' everyone doing that listens to this.

0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.280
<v Speaker 3>I don't understand. No, I don't know why that.

0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:44.720
<v Speaker 2>I can't answer for you because I follow all of

0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:45.920
<v Speaker 2>them for free.

0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.840
<v Speaker 1>For free. That's amazing stuff. Okay, so check that out.

0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:51.400
<v Speaker 2>And you can follow us and then bully Sammy into

0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:52.640
<v Speaker 2>watching Heated Rivalry.

0:12:52.920 --> 0:12:56.120
<v Speaker 1>I'll tell you what. I'll watch Heated Rivalry if you

0:12:56.200 --> 0:12:59.640
<v Speaker 1>watch my comedy special. It's on YouTube dot com. Check

0:12:59.720 --> 0:13:02.080
<v Speaker 1>it out on YouTube dot com. I went to Comedy

0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:05.080
<v Speaker 1>Republic on the weekend where I filmed my comedy special,

0:13:05.120 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 1>and I tell you what drinks were flowing. I got

0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:10.320
<v Speaker 1>free drinks from all three of the owners.

0:13:10.760 --> 0:13:14.400
<v Speaker 3>Oh because compecial they've ever.

0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.319
<v Speaker 1>Said, they've said and well they haven't said that. I've

0:13:16.320 --> 0:13:18.720
<v Speaker 1>said that, and they put me in the newsletter this week.

0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:20.600
<v Speaker 1>It's beautiful. I feel. Yeah, I'm at the top of

0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:21.200
<v Speaker 1>the newsletter.

0:13:21.440 --> 0:13:22.760
<v Speaker 3>You're at the topic godamn game.

0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, you're at the bottom, top and bottom heat a

0:13:24.640 --> 0:13:29.600
<v Speaker 1>rovery reference and I will be celebrating you. Celebrate and

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:32.080
<v Speaker 1>watch it right now on the Comedy Republic YouTube channel.

0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:38.880
<v Speaker 1>I would love Have you watched it? Yes with you? Oh? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah?

0:13:39.480 --> 0:13:42.680
<v Speaker 1>First got a little first, little tease part of it. Yeah,

0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.040
<v Speaker 1>but I'm very excited about it. That's on YouTube dot com.

0:13:45.040 --> 0:13:46.800
<v Speaker 1>If you want to watch that, you.

0:13:46.880 --> 0:13:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Tonight on my actual TV. WHOA, I'm going and watch

0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:51.400
<v Speaker 2>it with.

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:52.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't have surround sound.

0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:54.360
<v Speaker 2>I live in an old apartment and I don't really

0:13:54.400 --> 0:13:57.200
<v Speaker 2>care about technology, but I'm going to watch it and

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.040
<v Speaker 2>maybe like play the podcast on my phone, like on

0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:02.319
<v Speaker 2>the back of the couch, so theyn it will be

0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:04.200
<v Speaker 2>surround sound. I guess do you want to come over

0:14:04.280 --> 0:14:05.640
<v Speaker 2>and sit on the other side of me and then

0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 2>you can talk about.

0:14:09.640 --> 0:14:11.280
<v Speaker 1>But if you'll watch my comedy special, go to the

0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.640
<v Speaker 1>Comedy Public YouTube channel. Check that out. Do you love?

0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.880
<v Speaker 1>You've got anything to plug? When's your goddamn podcast coming back? Oh?

0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.560
<v Speaker 1>This one soon? I'vequught a great plug.

0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I can't remember the date that it's launching, but

0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>I've got my first interview for season eight of.

0:14:27.560 --> 0:14:29.720
<v Speaker 1>More snotting into the microphone like you did last week.

0:14:30.680 --> 0:14:32.160
<v Speaker 1>Got a great clip of that. Don't worry about that's

0:14:32.160 --> 0:14:35.280
<v Speaker 1>coming out shit at the time of recording. It'll well thrive.

0:14:35.320 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Recording is coming out. It'll already be.

0:14:40.320 --> 0:14:42.960
<v Speaker 2>Season eight of Everyone Has An X. My other podcast

0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:43.880
<v Speaker 2>is coming back.

0:14:43.920 --> 0:14:44.920
<v Speaker 1>It is confirmed.

0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:49.160
<v Speaker 2>I have my first interview for this season this week.

0:14:49.440 --> 0:14:52.520
<v Speaker 1>You got John Goodman, No, not in viewing John Goodman. No,

0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:58.080
<v Speaker 1>remember your friend, our friend. I'd like to say, our friend. Bam.

0:14:58.400 --> 0:14:59.680
<v Speaker 1>You didn't pull me up on it, but for some

0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>reason really aggresively said our friend. Maam. When I met

0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:05.120
<v Speaker 1>one of the first times, I said to her, because

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.200
<v Speaker 1>she's to work with the project, I said, oh, yeah,

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.720
<v Speaker 1>who have you interviewed Squidward And she goes, no, I

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:16.560
<v Speaker 1>haven't because people all night. Bam, reckon, she's interviewed celebrities

0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:19.920
<v Speaker 1>at the project. She hadn't even met Squidw. Squidward. Just

0:15:19.920 --> 0:15:23.160
<v Speaker 1>love for getting slightly wrong before Squidw met Squidward.

0:15:23.400 --> 0:15:27.800
<v Speaker 4>Oh, I worked at a place that interviewed celebrities.

0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:30.440
<v Speaker 1>If you have an interview, No, you have an Intervieweddquidward.

0:15:31.120 --> 0:15:32.600
<v Speaker 1>I would like to say as well, thank you to

0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 1>all the people that continually write to us. We bloody

0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:36.920
<v Speaker 1>love it. We'll be doing the mail bag section at

0:15:36.960 --> 0:15:39.000
<v Speaker 1>the end. You can write into me at samit just

0:15:39.080 --> 0:15:41.760
<v Speaker 1>another company, dot com dot au. You can leave us

0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.280
<v Speaker 1>a voicemail. We call that a spig pipe. The links

0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:46.680
<v Speaker 1>are below in the show notes. I've hearing your voice.

0:15:46.920 --> 0:15:48.640
<v Speaker 1>We love it. Leave a rating everywhere.

0:15:48.640 --> 0:15:52.000
<v Speaker 2>I met another listener at the airport on my way

0:15:52.080 --> 0:15:55.040
<v Speaker 2>to one says she was going down for festival as well.

0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 2>She is the one that owns the dress shop in

0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.240
<v Speaker 2>Port Douglas, and she'd written us in an email. I mean,

0:16:00.240 --> 0:16:05.480
<v Speaker 2>you're not another crime podcast listeners out there in the wild.

0:16:05.760 --> 0:16:07.560
<v Speaker 2>You just never know when you might meet.

0:16:07.480 --> 0:16:10.560
<v Speaker 1>I know they'll spring out and get you. You can

0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:14.280
<v Speaker 1>never be safe in this world. The Port Douglas beautiful

0:16:14.280 --> 0:16:17.800
<v Speaker 1>frock so I imagine, yes, was she wearing one? Yes?

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Was she looking good at the airport?

0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:19.320
<v Speaker 5>Oh?

0:16:19.360 --> 0:16:20.520
<v Speaker 1>She was looking great at the airport.

0:16:20.800 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>I was going, okay, guys, I was going to take

0:16:23.200 --> 0:16:26.000
<v Speaker 2>some photos and put them up on the podcast page,

0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:28.200
<v Speaker 2>like this is what you can wear at the airport,

0:16:28.200 --> 0:16:29.640
<v Speaker 2>this is what you can't wear at the airport. But

0:16:29.680 --> 0:16:31.960
<v Speaker 2>then I realized it's not a nice thing to do

0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:34.480
<v Speaker 2>to take an unsolicited photo of someone put it on

0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.440
<v Speaker 2>the internet saying this is a bad outfit.

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 1>So I didn't do that. I think and maybe wrong

0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.320
<v Speaker 1>on this. It was either Ben Lawrence or one of

0:16:42.320 --> 0:16:44.480
<v Speaker 1>the many Emmas or Gemmas that listening to the podcast

0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:50.040
<v Speaker 1>sent in a photo of someone on the plane, Alex

0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.000
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it was Alex oh anyway, but they had a

0:16:53.000 --> 0:16:55.920
<v Speaker 1>a sparkly hat on the plane and when g would

0:16:55.920 --> 0:16:59.680
<v Speaker 1>be happy about this sparkly top beautiful.

0:16:59.680 --> 0:17:04.679
<v Speaker 2>It was the picture show. Yes with Colombia. No, not

0:17:04.720 --> 0:17:05.520
<v Speaker 2>great McLaughlin.

0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:10.400
<v Speaker 1>Nope. If that's that's another crime, well it was found

0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:15.640
<v Speaker 1>not guilty. That doesn't mean allegedly crime. Hey, everybody, we're

0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:18.400
<v Speaker 1>going to get into this episode this week. I want

0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.880
<v Speaker 1>to say that I had not heard of this crime

0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:23.960
<v Speaker 1>before and it was a real surprise to me. It

0:17:24.040 --> 0:17:27.040
<v Speaker 1>is a really, really awful crime. There is at the

0:17:27.080 --> 0:17:30.399
<v Speaker 1>time of recording, a Netflix documentary coming out in just

0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:33.679
<v Speaker 1>a few days and a huge trigger warning for this episode.

0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:37.040
<v Speaker 2>It deals with the death of babies, not even just children.

0:17:37.920 --> 0:17:40.560
<v Speaker 1>And by the time you listen to this, the Netflix

0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.760
<v Speaker 1>dotr will be out and hey will either recommend it

0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:45.720
<v Speaker 1>or we won't. But we can't tell you now because

0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:46.199
<v Speaker 1>we don't know.

0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:48.679
<v Speaker 2>And also, you know, something did all the research for

0:17:48.720 --> 0:17:50.480
<v Speaker 2>this without even having the docker to watch.

0:17:50.760 --> 0:17:53.600
<v Speaker 1>That's right, so some of us is incorrect. No, it's

0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:59.679
<v Speaker 1>not checked it ready for this. Yeah, wolves are easy

0:17:59.720 --> 0:18:04.359
<v Speaker 1>toot wolves, wolves like uh huh, those sorts of wolves

0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:07.800
<v Speaker 1>sharp teeth, yellow eyes, are hunger that shows itself in

0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:10.960
<v Speaker 1>the way they move. But the most dangerous wolves learn

0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:14.399
<v Speaker 1>early how to soften their steps, how to lower their gaze,

0:18:14.760 --> 0:18:17.560
<v Speaker 1>how to wear gentleness like a burrowed skin, like a

0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:22.600
<v Speaker 1>borrowed skin. In this place, softness was the uniform. Voices

0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.760
<v Speaker 1>stayed low, hands were careful, Smiles were meant to reassure.

0:18:28.200 --> 0:18:30.280
<v Speaker 1>Lives small enough to fit in the crook of an

0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:35.399
<v Speaker 1>arm depended on routines, regular safety, trust, and the unspoken

0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 1>faith that those who stood what through the night were

0:18:39.080 --> 0:18:43.720
<v Speaker 1>there to actually protect, never to do harm. No one

0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.800
<v Speaker 1>thought to question the figure who blended so completely into

0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:51.680
<v Speaker 1>that promise, who spoke the language of care fluently, who

0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:57.480
<v Speaker 1>appeared when alarm sounded, there to protect, not to harm,

0:18:57.680 --> 0:19:02.159
<v Speaker 1>who seemed to grieve when things were wrong, grieve with them.

0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.480
<v Speaker 1>This is a story of a wolf in sheep's clothing,

0:19:06.440 --> 0:19:09.399
<v Speaker 1>not one that proud at the edges, not one that

0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.119
<v Speaker 1>proud at the edges, but one that stood at the

0:19:12.160 --> 0:19:15.200
<v Speaker 1>center of the flock. It is a story about how

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.920
<v Speaker 1>evil does not always announce itself with noise or chaos.

0:19:19.480 --> 0:19:21.800
<v Speaker 1>You can't always listen for the chickens in the pen,

0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:27.600
<v Speaker 1>But sometimes it arrives quietly, wrapped in kindness, waiting for

0:19:27.680 --> 0:19:30.080
<v Speaker 1>the moment when no one is looking closely enough to

0:19:30.080 --> 0:19:34.040
<v Speaker 1>see the teeth beneath the wall. This is a story

0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:36.440
<v Speaker 1>of Lucy let Bell.

0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:37.760
<v Speaker 3>That was beautifully written.

0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:39.800
<v Speaker 1>And I'm tearing up already.

0:19:40.680 --> 0:19:43.440
<v Speaker 3>That was really beautifully written. It's just such a fucking.

0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:46.800
<v Speaker 1>Woman, I know. Lucy let Bee was described by her

0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:52.400
<v Speaker 1>colleagues as quiet, ordinary and entirely unassuming. To those who

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:56.200
<v Speaker 1>worked alongside her, she was a kind and dedicated nurse,

0:19:56.960 --> 0:20:00.639
<v Speaker 1>someone passionate about her job, and wholly trusted by the

0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:04.400
<v Speaker 1>people who depended on her care the most. A clear

0:20:04.400 --> 0:20:07.160
<v Speaker 1>trigger warning before we go any further on this, Jesus

0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:10.919
<v Speaker 1>Or already mentioned this, but this is not an easy

0:20:10.960 --> 0:20:14.879
<v Speaker 1>story to hear or to tell. At the heart of

0:20:14.960 --> 0:20:19.320
<v Speaker 1>it lies a deeply unsettling question. Is Lucy let Be

0:20:19.760 --> 0:20:22.920
<v Speaker 1>a serial killer responsible for the deaths of society's most

0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:28.240
<v Speaker 1>vulnerable or is she innocent, a scapegoat used to mask

0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:34.480
<v Speaker 1>profound and longstanding, systematic failures within the NHS. Let Be

0:20:34.600 --> 0:20:40.680
<v Speaker 1>herself has claimed that her unit was chronically overstretched, dangerously understaffed,

0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.280
<v Speaker 1>and routinely unable to provide the standard of care its

0:20:44.320 --> 0:20:49.800
<v Speaker 1>patients required. For those unfamiliar the NHS, the National Health

0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Service is United Kingdom's publicly funded healthcare system. It provides

0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:58.359
<v Speaker 1>comprehensive medical care to local so to legal residents, with

0:20:58.520 --> 0:21:01.719
<v Speaker 1>most services free at the point of use and funded

0:21:01.760 --> 0:21:06.320
<v Speaker 1>primarily through general tax. The NHS is not a single entity,

0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:10.040
<v Speaker 1>but a collective term for four special our separate systems

0:21:10.520 --> 0:21:14.680
<v Speaker 1>NHS England, NHS Scotland, NHS Wales. I want to guess

0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:20.080
<v Speaker 1>the next one, NHS Florida, God, you're so close, and

0:21:20.200 --> 0:21:24.680
<v Speaker 1>Health and Social Care in Northern Ireland so close though,

0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:28.000
<v Speaker 1>just just down the road. G and I are not parents,

0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.760
<v Speaker 1>but this episode deals with themes that you may find

0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:34.719
<v Speaker 1>deeply distressing, whether you're a parent or not. We encourage

0:21:34.760 --> 0:21:36.520
<v Speaker 1>you to skip this episode and return to one of

0:21:36.520 --> 0:21:38.560
<v Speaker 1>our other fun ones if that's what you want to do.

0:21:39.040 --> 0:21:44.000
<v Speaker 1>I personally found researching this case extremely difficult. As always,

0:21:44.040 --> 0:21:48.000
<v Speaker 1>we are deliberately avoided including the most graphic and disturbing details.

0:21:48.560 --> 0:21:51.600
<v Speaker 1>This is not another crime podcast, and there are other

0:21:51.640 --> 0:21:55.600
<v Speaker 1>places for those accounts. Our focus here is on understanding

0:21:55.640 --> 0:22:01.120
<v Speaker 1>the story, not sensationalizing it. In October twenty twenty two,

0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Lucy let Be was accused of attempting to murder twenty

0:22:04.760 --> 0:22:08.760
<v Speaker 1>two infants twenty two Lucy became known as one of

0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:13.520
<v Speaker 1>Britain's most prolific child serial killers. The most haunting.

0:22:13.160 --> 0:22:16.840
<v Speaker 2>Aspect, sorry to interrupt, even just saying one of is

0:22:17.040 --> 0:22:17.840
<v Speaker 2>fucking horrible.

0:22:17.880 --> 0:22:21.480
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, but yeah, but we'll go into

0:22:21.480 --> 0:22:23.280
<v Speaker 1>the other people that the other are in this as well.

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:26.159
<v Speaker 1>The most haunting aspect of the story to most is

0:22:26.200 --> 0:22:30.359
<v Speaker 1>that Lucy does not seem like a serial killer. How many,

0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:35.119
<v Speaker 1>how not many people really do? We look at Jeffrey

0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.439
<v Speaker 1>Darmer or John Wayne Gacy and there's something about them

0:22:37.480 --> 0:22:39.399
<v Speaker 1>that you go, oh yeah, that could be a serial killer,

0:22:40.160 --> 0:22:42.440
<v Speaker 1>and we can see a serial killer in that instant.

0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:48.840
<v Speaker 1>It's an uncomfortable phrase, but one the media adopted Lucy

0:22:48.920 --> 0:22:51.919
<v Speaker 1>Letby's killing field. The hospital at the center of that

0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:55.919
<v Speaker 1>label was the Countess of Chester Hospital, located in Chester

0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 1>and serving the local population of North Wales. Around two

0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:04.000
<v Speaker 1>one thousand babies are born there each year WOW, and

0:23:04.040 --> 0:23:07.200
<v Speaker 1>the hospital includes a special care unit dedicated to providing

0:23:07.280 --> 0:23:11.600
<v Speaker 1>round the clock treatment for the most vulnerable infants. Historically,

0:23:11.800 --> 0:23:16.120
<v Speaker 1>deaths at the hospital were rare. In twenty ten, there

0:23:16.160 --> 0:23:20.080
<v Speaker 1>was just one recorded death of a premature baby WOW.

0:23:20.520 --> 0:23:24.560
<v Speaker 1>In twenty ten and twenty twelve there were two deaths

0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:29.840
<v Speaker 1>each year. In twenty thirteen that number rose to three,

0:23:29.880 --> 0:23:34.320
<v Speaker 1>and in twenty fourteen there were again three. These figures

0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:39.399
<v Speaker 1>reflected a unit that by all appearances, was functioning as intended,

0:23:39.680 --> 0:23:44.359
<v Speaker 1>providing constant specialized care to critically ill and vulnerable newborns.

0:23:45.280 --> 0:23:49.520
<v Speaker 1>In twenty fifteen, this all changed. The number surged to

0:23:49.560 --> 0:23:54.040
<v Speaker 1>a staggering eight just in one in one year. The

0:23:54.080 --> 0:23:56.800
<v Speaker 1>alarming thing wasn't the sudden rise, but the nature of

0:23:56.880 --> 0:24:00.719
<v Speaker 1>the death themselves. Before these babies love their lives, they

0:24:00.760 --> 0:24:05.560
<v Speaker 1>were seemingly stable, only to suddenly deteriorate without any warning.

0:24:06.359 --> 0:24:09.280
<v Speaker 1>This pattern itself, particularly in a special care unit, is

0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:13.040
<v Speaker 1>extremely distressing and alarming, not just the people that work there,

0:24:13.040 --> 0:24:17.080
<v Speaker 1>but also to course the parents. What was particularly striking

0:24:17.400 --> 0:24:20.400
<v Speaker 1>was how differently the deaths were perceived depending on where

0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:24.360
<v Speaker 1>you stood within the hospital. For NHS nurses and doctors

0:24:24.400 --> 0:24:28.760
<v Speaker 1>on the front line, each death was absolutely devastating, watching

0:24:28.800 --> 0:24:33.280
<v Speaker 1>families endure the worst moments of their lives. These losses

0:24:33.320 --> 0:24:36.400
<v Speaker 1>had to be formally recorded, but for those providing care

0:24:37.400 --> 0:24:40.720
<v Speaker 1>they were far more than just statistics. Each death was

0:24:40.720 --> 0:24:45.440
<v Speaker 1>deeply troubling and raised serious concern within the unit. And yeah,

0:24:45.440 --> 0:24:48.800
<v Speaker 1>I said. Con Then before we move on to how

0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:51.560
<v Speaker 1>the first alarm was raised by a fellow colleague, I'd

0:24:51.680 --> 0:24:54.000
<v Speaker 1>like to share with you a bit about Lucy let Be.

0:24:55.480 --> 0:24:59.920
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was born in Hereford, I believe Hereford or Hereford

0:25:00.119 --> 0:25:03.320
<v Speaker 1>Hereford Hereford be yeah, I think Hereford. Let's go with

0:25:03.359 --> 0:25:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Hereford Hereford in January nineteen ninety, making her thirty three

0:25:08.119 --> 0:25:10.000
<v Speaker 1>years old at the time of her trial.

0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:10.600
<v Speaker 2>God.

0:25:11.040 --> 0:25:14.560
<v Speaker 1>She attended Alston School before going on to study nursing

0:25:14.680 --> 0:25:18.680
<v Speaker 1>at the University of Chester. Nursing had long interested her.

0:25:18.880 --> 0:25:22.600
<v Speaker 1>She'd experienced a difficult birth herself, and her mother often

0:25:22.600 --> 0:25:24.840
<v Speaker 1>told her that nurses had played a critical role in

0:25:24.920 --> 0:25:29.280
<v Speaker 1>saving her life as an infant. Oh God. After graduating,

0:25:29.440 --> 0:25:33.760
<v Speaker 1>Lucy secured a permanent position as a neonatal nurse at

0:25:33.800 --> 0:25:38.000
<v Speaker 1>the Countess of Chester Hospital at the Neonatal Unit in

0:25:38.119 --> 0:25:41.080
<v Speaker 1>early twenty twelve. That was difficult to get out. Quite

0:25:41.080 --> 0:25:43.119
<v Speaker 1>a few neon natals then done really well. Thank you

0:25:43.160 --> 0:25:46.560
<v Speaker 1>for saying that. Early assessments of her performance were mixed.

0:25:46.880 --> 0:25:50.280
<v Speaker 1>Some colleagues noticed gaps in her clinical knowledge and felt

0:25:50.280 --> 0:25:54.200
<v Speaker 1>she needed to better recognize nonverbal distress in parents. It'll

0:25:54.240 --> 0:25:56.560
<v Speaker 1>be quite a big part of your role. I imagine

0:25:56.560 --> 0:25:59.280
<v Speaker 1>as a nurses, you really have to get to know

0:25:59.359 --> 0:26:03.320
<v Speaker 1>the parents, understand how they're adapting in a situation, if

0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:06.960
<v Speaker 1>they are really not coping with what's happening. With a

0:26:07.040 --> 0:26:09.440
<v Speaker 1>few even describing her manner as cold, so a few

0:26:09.440 --> 0:26:12.760
<v Speaker 1>people were like, oh, Lucy's quite a cold person. Over time, however,

0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:15.160
<v Speaker 1>she settled into the role and came to be regarded

0:26:15.200 --> 0:26:19.440
<v Speaker 1>as competent and well liked. Competent is never a compliment.

0:26:19.480 --> 0:26:22.840
<v Speaker 1>I think people just go they're competent. It's fine. I

0:26:22.840 --> 0:26:26.400
<v Speaker 1>think it's fine. It's not like competent at your job.

0:26:26.480 --> 0:26:28.400
<v Speaker 2>No matter what that job is, you should be competent,

0:26:28.760 --> 0:26:30.920
<v Speaker 2>let alone if it's about treating people.

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:37.080
<v Speaker 1>I know. Lucy's upbringing was described as loving, warm and stable.

0:26:38.000 --> 0:26:41.280
<v Speaker 1>Friend recalled that she was initially quite shy, but once comfortable,

0:26:41.320 --> 0:26:44.080
<v Speaker 1>she was bubbly and fun. As a young adult, she

0:26:44.280 --> 0:26:48.000
<v Speaker 1>enjoyed cocktails with friends, salsa dancing, and holidays abroad, including

0:26:48.040 --> 0:26:52.320
<v Speaker 1>trips to Ibitha. I hate you really do, don't you? Yeah?

0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:57.639
<v Speaker 1>Thet I think you have, yeah, terrible experience. I hated it.

0:26:57.640 --> 0:27:00.520
<v Speaker 1>It's just like my least, it's so not me.

0:27:00.680 --> 0:27:06.560
<v Speaker 2>That scene and my then husband really wanted to go,

0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:09.960
<v Speaker 2>so we did and ended up being a big group

0:27:10.000 --> 0:27:12.280
<v Speaker 2>trip with all his friends and my friend I'm they're

0:27:12.280 --> 0:27:17.080
<v Speaker 2>my friends as well.

0:27:13.560 --> 0:27:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, I hated it. We couldn't get like went out

0:27:22.080 --> 0:27:22.560
<v Speaker 1>one night.

0:27:22.840 --> 0:27:25.720
<v Speaker 2>I was duped into thinking, well, no, I was told

0:27:25.760 --> 0:27:30.480
<v Speaker 2>straight up it's not a DJ. It's just like it's

0:27:30.520 --> 0:27:33.439
<v Speaker 2>just you know, there is a DJ around them. This

0:27:33.440 --> 0:27:36.200
<v Speaker 2>place we're going to it was a massive fucking DJ set.

0:27:36.240 --> 0:27:38.639
<v Speaker 1>It was horrible. I hated it, and he.

0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Couldn't get home and I cracked the sheps and burst

0:27:41.720 --> 0:27:43.800
<v Speaker 2>into tears and booked myself into five Style Hotel for

0:27:43.840 --> 0:27:44.320
<v Speaker 2>the next night.

0:27:45.760 --> 0:27:51.480
<v Speaker 1>Diva we regret. When the investigation began, Lucy was really

0:27:51.520 --> 0:27:54.960
<v Speaker 1>open with friends and family with what was happening. And

0:27:55.080 --> 0:27:57.040
<v Speaker 1>even though she was open, it was a massive shock

0:27:57.119 --> 0:28:00.720
<v Speaker 1>to them. And when she was eventually rested arrested, sorry,

0:28:00.760 --> 0:28:03.440
<v Speaker 1>they just couldn't believe that because she, like you mean,

0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:05.359
<v Speaker 1>she told her friends and family, she was open about

0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:08.399
<v Speaker 1>the investigation that was ongoing, and when she was actually arrested.

0:28:08.200 --> 0:28:11.520
<v Speaker 2>About the fact that they were investigating.

0:28:10.840 --> 0:28:13.560
<v Speaker 1>Her within the hospital, yes and yeah, these.

0:28:13.200 --> 0:28:15.720
<v Speaker 2>Babies have been dying and that's investigating and it's really

0:28:16.040 --> 0:28:17.000
<v Speaker 2>was she saying, like, you.

0:28:16.960 --> 0:28:20.200
<v Speaker 1>Know, oh, how awful is this that this is happening? Well, yeah,

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:24.280
<v Speaker 1>yeah while she's on the clock. Yeah yeah, exactly. So yeah.

0:28:24.359 --> 0:28:27.159
<v Speaker 1>So her best friend commented that she would never believe

0:28:27.240 --> 0:28:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Lucy did this unless she told her herself. Her family

0:28:31.440 --> 0:28:35.200
<v Speaker 1>showed the same, unwavering support. For those who knew Lucy,

0:28:35.320 --> 0:28:37.280
<v Speaker 1>there was no question in their minds that she was

0:28:37.280 --> 0:28:40.040
<v Speaker 1>incapable of such acts. So everyone around her was like this, No,

0:28:40.080 --> 0:28:43.800
<v Speaker 1>there's no way, there's no way. There been no warning signs,

0:28:43.880 --> 0:28:48.440
<v Speaker 1>no foreshadowing, for shadowing, foreshadowing, nothing to suggest she'll one

0:28:48.520 --> 0:28:53.120
<v Speaker 1>day be charged with these crimes. To understand what happened next,

0:28:53.120 --> 0:28:56.640
<v Speaker 1>we need to return to twenty fifteen, when there was

0:28:56.680 --> 0:29:01.280
<v Speaker 1>a noticeable and deeply troubling rise in infant death on

0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:04.440
<v Speaker 1>July two thousand. On the second of July twenty fifteen,

0:29:04.840 --> 0:29:08.760
<v Speaker 1>shortly after the third death, the lead consultant on the war,

0:29:09.000 --> 0:29:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Dr Stephen Breery, raised concerns with senior management. His concerns

0:29:14.040 --> 0:29:18.640
<v Speaker 1>centered specifically on Nurse Lucy let be Wow. Dr Breery

0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:22.600
<v Speaker 1>had identified a disturbing pattern. Lucy had been present at

0:29:22.600 --> 0:29:26.920
<v Speaker 1>all three deaths, Yet despite the seriousness of the observation.

0:29:27.600 --> 0:29:31.360
<v Speaker 1>His concerns were not acted upon. Oh three deaths were

0:29:31.400 --> 0:29:34.600
<v Speaker 1>already three too many, and still no formal line of

0:29:34.600 --> 0:29:40.760
<v Speaker 1>inquiry followed. In hindsight, this inaction is difficult to comprehend,

0:29:41.600 --> 0:29:45.600
<v Speaker 1>but at the time the allegation itself may have felt

0:29:45.640 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 1>almost unthinkable. And you can speak, you know, hindsight is

0:29:50.640 --> 0:29:53.360
<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty vision right exactly as now.

0:29:53.400 --> 0:29:56.160
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, perhaps, I don't know. It's very hard to

0:29:56.200 --> 0:29:58.600
<v Speaker 2>comment on because I don't know. I don't have any

0:29:58.680 --> 0:30:02.960
<v Speaker 2>experience in you know, working in hospitals or being no,

0:30:03.040 --> 0:30:04.400
<v Speaker 2>not any No.

0:30:04.520 --> 0:30:06.560
<v Speaker 1>I did my dad's a dock down when I was little.

0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:08.360
<v Speaker 2>I used to go to work with him sometimes and

0:30:09.640 --> 0:30:12.000
<v Speaker 2>like playing with the catheter backs.

0:30:14.400 --> 0:30:16.720
<v Speaker 1>It should be a bio. When I was a kid,

0:30:16.760 --> 0:30:18.600
<v Speaker 1>I used to go to hospitals with my dad and

0:30:18.600 --> 0:30:23.200
<v Speaker 1>play with the catheter backs. The idea well, well there

0:30:23.200 --> 0:30:26.840
<v Speaker 1>were like ones that weren't already installed within someone. I

0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:28.600
<v Speaker 1>would just like, I just want a patient tour.

0:30:29.240 --> 0:30:32.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a patient like you know they hang up.

0:30:32.360 --> 0:30:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, they weren't a coach person. No, they were

0:30:36.000 --> 0:30:36.400
<v Speaker 1>like in.

0:30:36.280 --> 0:30:39.640
<v Speaker 2>The patient's room, you know, they're like not a catheter

0:30:40.520 --> 0:30:41.680
<v Speaker 2>Well yes, but a catheter.

0:30:41.800 --> 0:30:44.400
<v Speaker 1>That's like, like, not the bag you're playing with the

0:30:44.440 --> 0:30:46.480
<v Speaker 1>Wii back, I was playing with the Wii bag. Yes,

0:30:47.040 --> 0:30:51.200
<v Speaker 1>the idea that all I'm asking, the idea that something

0:30:51.400 --> 0:30:54.520
<v Speaker 1>so deliberate and so heinous could be occurring within a

0:30:54.560 --> 0:30:58.360
<v Speaker 1>neonatal unit was likely beyond what many could accept as possible.

0:30:59.440 --> 0:31:02.600
<v Speaker 1>Even so, it remains deeply troubling that nothing was done

0:31:02.760 --> 0:31:08.000
<v Speaker 1>at that point. The doctor found this exceptionally frustrating. Over

0:31:08.000 --> 0:31:10.440
<v Speaker 1>the next few months, there were three more deaths, and

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:13.720
<v Speaker 1>the patterns surrounding Lucy being present in all of these

0:31:13.800 --> 0:31:16.440
<v Speaker 1>deaths now seemed undernighib So.

0:31:16.440 --> 0:31:18.400
<v Speaker 2>She must have been the only one who was present

0:31:18.440 --> 0:31:20.880
<v Speaker 2>at all of them. If immediately this died as.

0:31:20.920 --> 0:31:23.320
<v Speaker 1>She was, she was like, I mean, there's other people caring.

0:31:23.400 --> 0:31:25.880
<v Speaker 1>She is the only one that's been present at everyone.

0:31:25.960 --> 0:31:28.560
<v Speaker 1>So Infant A and their names have always been suppressed.

0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:31.480
<v Speaker 1>But like Infant A, if Infant A was there, then

0:31:31.720 --> 0:31:33.800
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was there, and if there was another nurse there,

0:31:34.800 --> 0:31:39.240
<v Speaker 1>that the infant under Lucy's care would suddenly die. So

0:31:39.320 --> 0:31:42.960
<v Speaker 1>this was a pattern that was just emerging. Other consultants

0:31:43.000 --> 0:31:46.680
<v Speaker 1>started to notice too. Morbidly. It became a question in

0:31:46.720 --> 0:31:49.760
<v Speaker 1>the office and kind of gallows humor that if a

0:31:49.840 --> 0:31:53.920
<v Speaker 1>baby died, was Lucy on duty? Oh gosh, it felt

0:31:53.960 --> 0:31:56.920
<v Speaker 1>like a joke, but also not. It seemed as though

0:31:57.040 --> 0:32:03.000
<v Speaker 1>it was just gossip. In February two, twenty sixteen, another consultant,

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:07.720
<v Speaker 1>doctor Ravi Jayream, approached the executive of the hospital, chief

0:32:07.760 --> 0:32:11.720
<v Speaker 1>executive Tony Chambers, with the same concerns. Well, without having

0:32:11.760 --> 0:32:14.440
<v Speaker 1>spoken to the first Well, I don't know, but it

0:32:14.440 --> 0:32:18.239
<v Speaker 1>doesn't seem like it. Tony was dubious and told the

0:32:18.280 --> 0:32:20.680
<v Speaker 1>doctor that he could see how he might view the

0:32:20.720 --> 0:32:24.120
<v Speaker 1>concerns of his unit as an excuse for the before

0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:27.360
<v Speaker 1>of the poor performance of the unit. In a way,

0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:30.880
<v Speaker 1>Tony Chambers was accusing him of trying to use Lucy

0:32:31.080 --> 0:32:37.160
<v Speaker 1>as a scapegoat. This carried serious implications. The NHS is

0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:41.240
<v Speaker 1>a vast and highly bureaucratic system, and over time it

0:32:41.280 --> 0:32:44.400
<v Speaker 1>appeared that senior leadership came to believe there was no

0:32:44.640 --> 0:32:49.680
<v Speaker 1>immediate cause for alarm, that operations should continue as normal.

0:32:50.160 --> 0:32:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Yet between February and we beginning to kiss Diggs, come

0:32:54.160 --> 0:33:01.120
<v Speaker 1>up my face? Is someone else? Yet? Between February and May,

0:33:01.600 --> 0:33:06.400
<v Speaker 1>two more babies die and several others suffered unexplained collapses.

0:33:07.320 --> 0:33:12.920
<v Speaker 1>The unit was clearly understrained, mistakes were occurring more regularly,

0:33:13.320 --> 0:33:17.520
<v Speaker 1>critical procedures were being missed, and there was insufficient senior

0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:20.600
<v Speaker 1>cover on the ship. So like senior leaders, like doctors,

0:33:20.720 --> 0:33:25.600
<v Speaker 1>and you know. By this point, the atmosphere on the

0:33:25.640 --> 0:33:30.200
<v Speaker 1>ward had become unbearable, especially for the frontline staff who

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:34.160
<v Speaker 1>were confronting these events day after day and constantly going

0:33:34.200 --> 0:33:37.560
<v Speaker 1>home with another loss. By the end of June, a

0:33:37.640 --> 0:33:40.840
<v Speaker 1>team meeting was held to address the vital sorry, to

0:33:40.880 --> 0:33:44.440
<v Speaker 1>address the rising death toll, and to try to restore morale,

0:33:44.920 --> 0:33:48.120
<v Speaker 1>reinforcing that their work was vital and they had to

0:33:48.240 --> 0:33:52.320
<v Speaker 1>keep going no matter what. During the meeting, one detail

0:33:52.400 --> 0:33:58.040
<v Speaker 1>stood out. Lucy Leppe showed no visible emotion, which struck

0:33:58.080 --> 0:34:02.000
<v Speaker 1>some as unusual, particularly given that she was the only

0:34:02.080 --> 0:34:06.120
<v Speaker 1>nurse who had been present at every fatality. Many would

0:34:06.160 --> 0:34:09.080
<v Speaker 1>have expected her to be among the most affected by this.

0:34:09.719 --> 0:34:12.320
<v Speaker 1>After the meeting, the doctor who called the meeting checked

0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:15.200
<v Speaker 1>in with Lucy privately to ask how she was coping.

0:34:15.840 --> 0:34:18.799
<v Speaker 1>Lucy thanked him for his concern, but said she was

0:34:18.920 --> 0:34:22.399
<v Speaker 1>absolutely fine and didn't need to take any time off.

0:34:22.520 --> 0:34:25.359
<v Speaker 2>Well that you know what, even if you've just been

0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:30.840
<v Speaker 2>at work, when you've been on shift, when a baby

0:34:30.920 --> 0:34:34.359
<v Speaker 2>has passed, let alone a number of them. That in

0:34:34.400 --> 0:34:37.200
<v Speaker 2>itself should make you not fine, let alone if it's

0:34:37.239 --> 0:34:39.680
<v Speaker 2>been all being investigated and everything like this.

0:34:39.960 --> 0:34:42.080
<v Speaker 1>We'll go into this later. It's kind of a you

0:34:42.080 --> 0:34:46.239
<v Speaker 1>know that nurses, in particular neo natal nurses formed quite

0:34:46.280 --> 0:34:48.400
<v Speaker 1>a tight bond obviously with the parents. And this is

0:34:48.440 --> 0:34:51.040
<v Speaker 1>a really hard thing. But she returned to work the

0:34:51.120 --> 0:34:55.040
<v Speaker 1>very next day. Wow. So several alarm bells continued to

0:34:57.160 --> 0:35:03.719
<v Speaker 1>phone Hey, honey, I'm just recording a podcast with Georgia. Honey.

0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:06.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, sorry I was calling you back. OK,

0:35:07.160 --> 0:35:08.840
<v Speaker 1>you're on the podcast right now. Anything you want to

0:35:08.840 --> 0:35:09.360
<v Speaker 1>say many.

0:35:11.480 --> 0:35:14.760
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I saw you on the Jeffrey Epstein email.

0:35:14.960 --> 0:35:32.640
<v Speaker 5>Okay, that's good.

0:35:34.040 --> 0:35:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Have Meg Yeager on the podcast. Everywhere Great Comedian festival.

0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Show's touring all around Australia. It's that's not any good

0:35:41.200 --> 0:35:46.400
<v Speaker 1>indication of Meg how quick she is. All right. After that,

0:35:48.360 --> 0:35:51.120
<v Speaker 1>after the meeting, a doctor checked in with Lucia Sorr.

0:35:51.160 --> 0:35:53.480
<v Speaker 1>I've already been through this so at this time, several

0:35:53.520 --> 0:35:56.200
<v Speaker 1>alarm bells. I have just been accused of something quite awful.

0:35:57.520 --> 0:36:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Do you want it to take this opportunity to tell

0:36:01.160 --> 0:36:02.840
<v Speaker 2>me and the listeners whether.

0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 1>You were in the Jefferypstairs, I'm not.

0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:08.560
<v Speaker 3>Why won't you make argondo I am in the emails?

0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:12.880
<v Speaker 1>So several alarm bells continue to ring for this doctor.

0:36:14.000 --> 0:36:16.359
<v Speaker 1>You should need to take time off, even if you're

0:36:16.440 --> 0:36:19.920
<v Speaker 1>questioning your ability at this time. Now, Lucy is somewhat

0:36:19.960 --> 0:36:22.799
<v Speaker 1>seen as a bit of a closed book. She came

0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:25.919
<v Speaker 1>across as a very guilty person because she didn't show

0:36:26.000 --> 0:36:29.000
<v Speaker 1>any emotion or react in the regular ways you would

0:36:29.000 --> 0:36:33.040
<v Speaker 1>expect in such tragic circumstances. We've kind of been through

0:36:33.040 --> 0:36:35.839
<v Speaker 1>this before, but sometimes people don't behave in the way

0:36:35.880 --> 0:36:39.799
<v Speaker 1>you're expecting them to. The evening, Doctor Breery contacted the

0:36:39.800 --> 0:36:43.799
<v Speaker 1>head of nursing for Also that evening. That evening, Dr

0:36:43.840 --> 0:36:47.200
<v Speaker 1>Breery contacted the head of nursing for the Urgent Care Division,

0:36:47.400 --> 0:36:50.879
<v Speaker 1>a woman by the name of Karen Reese. He told

0:36:50.920 --> 0:36:55.080
<v Speaker 1>her plainly that Lucy needed to be immediately taken off

0:36:55.160 --> 0:36:58.960
<v Speaker 1>his unit, that he believed that she was responsible and

0:36:59.040 --> 0:37:01.240
<v Speaker 1>that something needed to change right away.

0:37:01.480 --> 0:37:04.359
<v Speaker 2>So straight up, I think she's responsible, not even there

0:37:04.400 --> 0:37:05.360
<v Speaker 2>might be something going on.

0:37:05.880 --> 0:37:09.120
<v Speaker 1>I think she's responsible. But once again, Karen dismissed the

0:37:09.239 --> 0:37:12.840
<v Speaker 1>concerns and said that Lucy posed no threat to patients

0:37:12.840 --> 0:37:16.560
<v Speaker 1>and without concrete evidence, they would not be able to act.

0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:17.600
<v Speaker 1>And you know what, it.

0:37:17.640 --> 0:37:19.279
<v Speaker 2>Is hard like if you want to kind of play

0:37:19.320 --> 0:37:21.440
<v Speaker 2>devil's advocate for all, which is the wrong term, because

0:37:21.480 --> 0:37:23.759
<v Speaker 2>there's you know, there's no advocating for something that's done this.

0:37:24.120 --> 0:37:26.160
<v Speaker 1>But at this point they didn't know whether she had

0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:26.480
<v Speaker 1>or not.

0:37:27.520 --> 0:37:29.200
<v Speaker 2>You look at that as someone who's in charge of

0:37:29.239 --> 0:37:32.520
<v Speaker 2>the unit, I suppose, and you go, well, we can't

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:36.439
<v Speaker 2>assume that somebody is doing this.

0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:38.840
<v Speaker 1>So I mean, I'm saying it.

0:37:38.880 --> 0:37:41.239
<v Speaker 2>I disagree with it as i'm saying it, but I

0:37:41.280 --> 0:37:44.839
<v Speaker 2>suppose she's probably looking at that and saying, well, you

0:37:44.880 --> 0:37:46.600
<v Speaker 2>can't just tell me that I've got to take someone

0:37:46.680 --> 0:37:49.000
<v Speaker 2>off exact we don't have any proof of anything.

0:37:49.080 --> 0:37:51.120
<v Speaker 1>I can't just you can't just reach someone someone of

0:37:51.280 --> 0:37:53.879
<v Speaker 1>multiple murders. No, you can't rip someone off the unit

0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:55.960
<v Speaker 1>and just be like, look, these are the reasons why.

0:37:56.000 --> 0:37:57.399
<v Speaker 1>Because the doctor's suspect.

0:37:57.120 --> 0:37:58.799
<v Speaker 2>Which is hard to say because now we know that

0:37:58.880 --> 0:38:01.120
<v Speaker 2>obviously she was. You know that that was the case,

0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:04.239
<v Speaker 2>but if it wasn't, imagine that story you know, some

0:38:04.800 --> 0:38:08.040
<v Speaker 2>person has been present for all these tragedies happening, and

0:38:08.080 --> 0:38:14.160
<v Speaker 2>we've accused her exactly for any justification of that Karen's

0:38:14.239 --> 0:38:17.240
<v Speaker 2>decisions in that moment, I suppose it was probably.

0:38:16.840 --> 0:38:21.000
<v Speaker 1>That, I guess exactly. Karen then said that if anything

0:38:21.040 --> 0:38:24.040
<v Speaker 1>were to happen with Lucy that she would take personal

0:38:24.080 --> 0:38:25.120
<v Speaker 1>responsibility for it.

0:38:25.600 --> 0:38:28.560
<v Speaker 3>Wow, she backed to that, back to that much far out.

0:38:28.960 --> 0:38:32.640
<v Speaker 1>The next day, another baby collapsed and Lucy again was

0:38:32.680 --> 0:38:36.640
<v Speaker 1>on ship the next day. Next day, consultants continued to

0:38:36.719 --> 0:38:40.960
<v Speaker 1>mount pressure against the hospital and finally Lucy was moved

0:38:41.080 --> 0:38:47.400
<v Speaker 1>to administrative duties administrative, well administrative. There was a huge

0:38:47.440 --> 0:38:50.440
<v Speaker 1>relief at the time for all of the consultants and

0:38:50.480 --> 0:38:54.040
<v Speaker 1>the nurses. Despite moving her, the hospital was not going

0:38:54.080 --> 0:38:58.000
<v Speaker 1>to take any further action. The hospital told the concern

0:38:58.120 --> 0:39:01.680
<v Speaker 1>staff that the action they were taking was to move

0:39:01.800 --> 0:39:05.880
<v Speaker 1>her to administrative duties and they had done their due diligence.

0:39:06.840 --> 0:39:09.480
<v Speaker 1>They then asked the staff to stop emailing them on

0:39:09.520 --> 0:39:09.839
<v Speaker 1>the matter.

0:39:10.440 --> 0:39:13.040
<v Speaker 2>So there's multiple people going no, no more needs down

0:39:13.080 --> 0:39:15.120
<v Speaker 2>and then stop it with the day.

0:39:15.200 --> 0:39:17.800
<v Speaker 1>In fact, I think it was seven consultants. Wow. I

0:39:17.840 --> 0:39:19.640
<v Speaker 1>don't know if I'm pulling that name out of my arsenal,

0:39:19.680 --> 0:39:22.600
<v Speaker 1>but I feel like it was about seven arsenal arsenal.

0:39:24.360 --> 0:39:28.120
<v Speaker 1>In a situation like this, proof is essential. But by

0:39:28.120 --> 0:39:30.920
<v Speaker 1>this point there appeared to be a growing body of

0:39:31.000 --> 0:39:35.440
<v Speaker 1>circumstantial evidence. The pattern could not be ignored. And this

0:39:35.560 --> 0:39:37.479
<v Speaker 1>is the thing we've discussed with this as well.

0:39:37.880 --> 0:39:39.880
<v Speaker 2>And I feel like I say it often when people

0:39:40.000 --> 0:39:43.040
<v Speaker 2>argue about you know, trials that are on at the

0:39:43.040 --> 0:39:45.440
<v Speaker 2>moment and people are following in the medium people, but

0:39:45.440 --> 0:39:49.800
<v Speaker 2>it's only circumstantial, yes, but that is still evidence. Circumstantial

0:39:49.840 --> 0:39:53.680
<v Speaker 2>evidence is that there have been cases found only circumstantial,

0:39:53.840 --> 0:39:55.600
<v Speaker 2>so you can't discount that either.

0:39:55.880 --> 0:39:57.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, the pattern could not be ignored, and to prevent

0:39:57.920 --> 0:40:01.600
<v Speaker 1>history from repeating itself, the common theirvariable had to be removed,

0:40:01.640 --> 0:40:06.200
<v Speaker 1>and she was. After Lucy was reassigned, the whispering on

0:40:06.320 --> 0:40:11.200
<v Speaker 1>the ward reached her. She filed a formal grievance against

0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:13.560
<v Speaker 1>seven consultants I didn't pull it out of my asshole there,

0:40:14.320 --> 0:40:18.200
<v Speaker 1>arguing that her removal was the was her removal from

0:40:18.239 --> 0:40:23.240
<v Speaker 1>the unit was based on unsubstantiated accusations. In her complaint,

0:40:23.360 --> 0:40:26.320
<v Speaker 1>Lucy said that after returning from annual leaves, she felt

0:40:26.360 --> 0:40:30.640
<v Speaker 1>excluded and professionally devastated by a decision in which she

0:40:30.719 --> 0:40:33.799
<v Speaker 1>had no say. While she acknowledged that staff had the

0:40:33.880 --> 0:40:37.480
<v Speaker 1>right to raise concerns, she said that those concerns did

0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:40.400
<v Speaker 1>not need to be discussed openly in a way that

0:40:40.520 --> 0:40:44.680
<v Speaker 1>caused her significant distress. Behind her back, she was labeled

0:40:44.880 --> 0:40:50.120
<v Speaker 1>the angel of death awful, a term that eventually it's awful,

0:40:51.200 --> 0:40:54.080
<v Speaker 1>a term that eventually made its way to her. By

0:40:54.120 --> 0:40:57.200
<v Speaker 1>this stage, many consultants had turned against her, and the

0:40:57.280 --> 0:41:02.000
<v Speaker 1>pressure continued to intensify. Disparaging comments were made about Lucy

0:41:02.040 --> 0:41:06.560
<v Speaker 1>in private, many of which later reached her. Lucy maintained

0:41:07.040 --> 0:41:11.240
<v Speaker 1>that she remained Lucy maintained that she remained professional throughout

0:41:11.239 --> 0:41:15.000
<v Speaker 1>her reassignment, but said the isolation and secrecy surrounding the

0:41:15.040 --> 0:41:17.960
<v Speaker 1>situation began to take a toll on her mental health

0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:21.080
<v Speaker 1>and her confidence. She made it clear that she wanted

0:41:21.120 --> 0:41:23.680
<v Speaker 1>to return to the unit where she had trained and

0:41:23.719 --> 0:41:28.120
<v Speaker 1>began her career. Now. When Lucy's complaint is received, senior

0:41:28.160 --> 0:41:32.080
<v Speaker 1>management takes it very seriously. Two of the consultants must

0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:35.000
<v Speaker 1>go through mediation with her, and all seven of the

0:41:35.080 --> 0:41:38.160
<v Speaker 1>accused consultants are forced to write an apology letter to

0:41:38.239 --> 0:41:41.040
<v Speaker 1>Lucy let be or that they would be reported to

0:41:41.120 --> 0:41:45.160
<v Speaker 1>the General Medical Council. The consultants believed that this was

0:41:45.280 --> 0:41:50.040
<v Speaker 1>a patient safety violation, but they needed proof, so Lucy

0:41:50.080 --> 0:41:53.799
<v Speaker 1>herself was a safety violation. All they saw was a

0:41:53.800 --> 0:41:56.759
<v Speaker 1>failing ward based on data. So that's kind of what

0:41:56.800 --> 0:41:59.360
<v Speaker 1>the senior management going. It's just darted. This is what

0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:02.440
<v Speaker 1>we're seeing right now. They did have clear evidence that

0:42:02.520 --> 0:42:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Lucy had been treated unfairly in the workplace, so they

0:42:05.480 --> 0:42:07.200
<v Speaker 1>needed to act on that first. This is just like

0:42:07.280 --> 0:42:09.160
<v Speaker 1>it's just they're treating it like any other company. It's

0:42:09.200 --> 0:42:12.280
<v Speaker 1>just like that HR thing instead of like infants are dying.

0:42:13.080 --> 0:42:15.040
<v Speaker 1>It seemed like the easiest thing to be able to

0:42:15.040 --> 0:42:18.960
<v Speaker 1>deal with. The unit was more and more understaffed. It

0:42:19.000 --> 0:42:20.640
<v Speaker 1>was like they didn't have the time to get the

0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:23.920
<v Speaker 1>evidence once another tragedy occurred, so they just had to

0:42:23.920 --> 0:42:26.480
<v Speaker 1>move on so quickly. That was too understart to deal

0:42:26.520 --> 0:42:26.680
<v Speaker 1>with it.

0:42:28.400 --> 0:42:28.560
<v Speaker 2>All.

0:42:28.640 --> 0:42:32.680
<v Speaker 1>Seven consultants ended up sending Lucy an apology letter. However,

0:42:32.719 --> 0:42:35.160
<v Speaker 1>they stated this came from a fear of the most

0:42:35.200 --> 0:42:40.960
<v Speaker 1>important thing, the patient's safety. The consultants themselves were extremely

0:42:41.080 --> 0:42:43.799
<v Speaker 1>irritated that they had to go through with writing an

0:42:43.800 --> 0:42:47.480
<v Speaker 1>apology letter to someone they believed was guilty. And it

0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:50.360
<v Speaker 1>does not go unnoticed that while Lucy was on a

0:42:50.440 --> 0:42:55.560
<v Speaker 1>ministry of duties can you guess, yeah, these sudden deaths

0:42:55.560 --> 0:43:00.360
<v Speaker 1>and collapses seemed to disappear, and so as a result,

0:43:00.640 --> 0:43:04.720
<v Speaker 1>the consultants did not drop the issue and continually asked

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:12.600
<v Speaker 1>for a formal investigation. Eventually, the hospital caved in, yeah.

0:43:12.760 --> 0:43:15.240
<v Speaker 3>We're talking about children dying.

0:43:15.120 --> 0:43:18.919
<v Speaker 1>And asked the Royal College of Pediatrics and Child Health

0:43:19.000 --> 0:43:20.680
<v Speaker 1>to conduct a formal review.

0:43:21.680 --> 0:43:24.200
<v Speaker 3>Only after all of this, all of this, Jesus.

0:43:24.719 --> 0:43:27.920
<v Speaker 1>The review found that the hospital may have downplayed the

0:43:27.920 --> 0:43:31.200
<v Speaker 1>full extent of the concerns raised about Lucy let Be,

0:43:31.600 --> 0:43:34.400
<v Speaker 1>but because of how badly the hospital was being managed

0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:38.040
<v Speaker 1>due to staffing issues and resources, there was no evidence

0:43:38.080 --> 0:43:40.240
<v Speaker 1>in the cause of death in any of the cases.

0:43:41.400 --> 0:43:45.759
<v Speaker 1>So this is extremely frustrating for all of the consultants.

0:43:46.520 --> 0:43:49.239
<v Speaker 1>On one hand, their fears were slightly validated, but on

0:43:49.280 --> 0:43:51.920
<v Speaker 1>the other it looked as if Lucy would be getting

0:43:51.920 --> 0:43:54.719
<v Speaker 1>away with something they believed she was very guilty of.

0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:59.600
<v Speaker 2>The reviews sorry, so was it kind of saying the

0:43:59.719 --> 0:44:04.120
<v Speaker 2>core of death aren't the same in each of the cases,

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:06.960
<v Speaker 2>so we can't possibly say that they're linked.

0:44:07.320 --> 0:44:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, but there are definitely issues right here. Yeah, okay,

0:44:11.400 --> 0:44:13.440
<v Speaker 1>but it could be because of resourcing, it could be because

0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:14.000
<v Speaker 1>the understaff.

0:44:14.160 --> 0:44:16.200
<v Speaker 3>Yes, yeah, there's nothing enough to show that it was

0:44:16.239 --> 0:44:16.720
<v Speaker 3>a person.

0:44:17.040 --> 0:44:20.319
<v Speaker 1>I think more that critical procedures are being missed right.

0:44:21.800 --> 0:44:26.320
<v Speaker 1>The review suggested an external, independent review should be carried

0:44:26.360 --> 0:44:29.279
<v Speaker 1>out for each of the deaths. I was surprised that

0:44:29.360 --> 0:44:32.359
<v Speaker 1>this isn't something that actually already happens with a death,

0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:34.799
<v Speaker 1>but I guess this goes back to the running of

0:44:34.840 --> 0:44:38.040
<v Speaker 1>the hospital and how the NHS was performing at the time.

0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:42.040
<v Speaker 1>As a result of the review, the hospital decided that

0:44:42.080 --> 0:44:46.640
<v Speaker 1>they would stop accepting any babies under thirty two weeks

0:44:46.640 --> 0:44:50.720
<v Speaker 1>of gestation until management was properly sorted out what happens

0:44:50.719 --> 0:44:55.600
<v Speaker 1>to those premies then to hospitals. This was a huge

0:44:55.600 --> 0:44:59.720
<v Speaker 1>blow to the consultants. The senior management will now utterly

0:44:59.760 --> 0:45:02.279
<v Speaker 1>convey so the tragedies were in fact caused by Paul

0:45:02.280 --> 0:45:06.560
<v Speaker 1>management and not by something more sinister at play. This

0:45:06.680 --> 0:45:10.960
<v Speaker 1>fed into exactly what Tony Chambers thought earlier. He believed

0:45:10.960 --> 0:45:13.840
<v Speaker 1>that Lucy was a convenient person to pin all of

0:45:13.880 --> 0:45:14.319
<v Speaker 1>this on.

0:45:15.120 --> 0:45:17.680
<v Speaker 2>They saw the data of who was working on She

0:45:18.120 --> 0:45:20.080
<v Speaker 2>saw that there was a common denominator and went.

0:45:20.000 --> 0:45:21.719
<v Speaker 1>Ah, we can pin it on her, we can put

0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:24.800
<v Speaker 1>it on her. Because of the review, the hospital management

0:45:24.800 --> 0:45:28.879
<v Speaker 1>decided not to go through with the external reviews. As

0:45:28.920 --> 0:45:34.800
<v Speaker 1>a result, the consultants in April twenty seventeen formally reported

0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:37.600
<v Speaker 1>their fears to the police. Wow, they had to go.

0:45:37.719 --> 0:45:40.839
<v Speaker 1>They had to go to police. Fun the only way

0:45:40.840 --> 0:45:43.640
<v Speaker 1>they're going to get listened to. Chester Police launched a

0:45:43.719 --> 0:45:50.080
<v Speaker 1>formal investigation and invite to Dr Dewey Evans, a retired pediatrician. Now, okay,

0:45:50.520 --> 0:45:53.320
<v Speaker 1>I should make it clear here that he had heard

0:45:53.360 --> 0:45:55.960
<v Speaker 1>what was happening and he volunteered his services. He was

0:45:55.960 --> 0:45:57.920
<v Speaker 1>a retired person. But actually i'll do it on behalf

0:45:57.920 --> 0:45:58.880
<v Speaker 1>of the police.

0:45:58.719 --> 0:46:02.320
<v Speaker 2>Right, Okay, who understands the industry? Yes, well, they just

0:46:02.360 --> 0:46:03.839
<v Speaker 2>don't understand how that all works.

0:46:03.920 --> 0:46:05.480
<v Speaker 1>He was watching the Lucy let me think from a

0:46:05.520 --> 0:46:08.920
<v Speaker 1>farm when I want to. Yeah. He made it very

0:46:08.960 --> 0:46:11.120
<v Speaker 1>clear that he didn't want to be made aware of

0:46:11.239 --> 0:46:15.480
<v Speaker 1>any police or hospital's feelings that may sway. You know,

0:46:15.520 --> 0:46:20.760
<v Speaker 1>he's such a doctor and his daughter was just playing

0:46:20.760 --> 0:46:22.600
<v Speaker 1>with the catheter bags and the patients in the hallway.

0:46:23.520 --> 0:46:28.120
<v Speaker 1>Doctor doctor Evans was given a record of record, sorry

0:46:28.120 --> 0:46:31.320
<v Speaker 1>of thirty babies. For half of them he was able

0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:34.560
<v Speaker 1>to find a very clear explanation of their death due

0:46:34.600 --> 0:46:38.879
<v Speaker 1>to infections or hemorrhages. For fifteen of these he could

0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:43.400
<v Speaker 1>not provide an explanation of what had occurred. So half,

0:46:43.719 --> 0:46:45.000
<v Speaker 1>So those parents.

0:46:45.080 --> 0:46:51.040
<v Speaker 3>There's fifteen families whose babies have died and they haven't

0:46:51.080 --> 0:46:52.080
<v Speaker 3>even been told why.

0:46:52.600 --> 0:46:57.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, this was of of thirty. This was of the

0:46:57.360 --> 0:47:01.040
<v Speaker 1>thirty that were given, So there's way more than that. Yeah,

0:47:01.280 --> 0:47:05.000
<v Speaker 1>it was a suddenness of the deterioration that didn't add up.

0:47:05.520 --> 0:47:07.640
<v Speaker 1>He noticed in some of the cases the baby showed

0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:11.719
<v Speaker 1>signs of air embolisms in their system, which to him,

0:47:12.120 --> 0:47:14.799
<v Speaker 1>he believed that this could not be accidental. Is that

0:47:14.840 --> 0:47:17.799
<v Speaker 1>like a bubble like yeah, so injected with air. So

0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:20.520
<v Speaker 1>air would have had to be injected into them for

0:47:20.560 --> 0:47:24.520
<v Speaker 1>this to happen. God or God. One isolated case might

0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:27.960
<v Speaker 1>not have really concerned him, maybe even too, but several

0:47:27.960 --> 0:47:31.799
<v Speaker 1>babies showed the same patterns, so this became really concerning

0:47:31.840 --> 0:47:35.200
<v Speaker 1>to him. Some of these babies also showed signs of

0:47:35.239 --> 0:47:38.960
<v Speaker 1>being overfed, with which a premature baby could not handle,

0:47:39.040 --> 0:47:40.960
<v Speaker 1>so they would have a certain amount, but they know

0:47:41.080 --> 0:47:45.120
<v Speaker 1>what to do and not to do exactly, so you know,

0:47:45.200 --> 0:47:47.600
<v Speaker 1>so a certain baby would have like this amount of

0:47:47.760 --> 0:47:50.880
<v Speaker 1>milk and then overfared it would throw up and everything.

0:47:50.920 --> 0:47:52.880
<v Speaker 1>So it was just like this cycle is gone. This

0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:57.200
<v Speaker 1>isn't right. So there's clearly a problem. But was their intent.

0:47:57.480 --> 0:48:00.000
<v Speaker 1>That's what they had to find out. He also found

0:48:00.160 --> 0:48:02.880
<v Speaker 1>signs of direct trauma in some of these cases, bleeding

0:48:02.880 --> 0:48:04.759
<v Speaker 1>around the mouth or the back of their throats, which

0:48:04.800 --> 0:48:08.200
<v Speaker 1>could be caused by a breathing tube being forcibly inserted

0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:14.680
<v Speaker 1>or removed, causing catastrophic bleeding. Now, these findings were extremely alarming,

0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:17.439
<v Speaker 1>not just to Hymn but also to the police as well.

0:48:17.480 --> 0:48:19.160
<v Speaker 1>So he took this to the police and they went, oh,

0:48:19.200 --> 0:48:21.600
<v Speaker 1>we have to look into this. It was enough to

0:48:21.680 --> 0:48:25.440
<v Speaker 1>pull even more case files, particularly a pair of twins

0:48:25.760 --> 0:48:29.840
<v Speaker 1>who both deteriorated rapidly after their blood sugar levels dropped.

0:48:30.960 --> 0:48:33.960
<v Speaker 1>At first, it looked ordinary, which is why it was missed.

0:48:34.520 --> 0:48:37.880
<v Speaker 1>But when their blood was tested, they found a high

0:48:37.960 --> 0:48:41.560
<v Speaker 1>level of insulin, the kind that could only be present

0:48:41.960 --> 0:48:46.719
<v Speaker 1>if it were administered externally. They knew this because when

0:48:46.760 --> 0:48:51.839
<v Speaker 1>insulin is produced naturally, the body also produces see peptide

0:48:51.880 --> 0:48:56.680
<v Speaker 1>in equal If there is far more insulin than sea peptide,

0:48:56.880 --> 0:49:00.000
<v Speaker 1>then it proves that the insulin was actually administered externally.

0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:04.839
<v Speaker 1>For doctor Evans, this was the most damning evidence so far,

0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:11.359
<v Speaker 1>both twins. Yeah, police now had seventeen unexplained debts and

0:49:11.480 --> 0:49:13.319
<v Speaker 1>sixteen suspicious collapses.

0:49:14.280 --> 0:49:17.239
<v Speaker 2>And sorry to be ignorant, but collapses means like a

0:49:17.320 --> 0:49:18.640
<v Speaker 2>collapse in their condition.

0:49:19.000 --> 0:49:22.040
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, yeah, not necessarily dying, but but yeah, but

0:49:22.560 --> 0:49:25.880
<v Speaker 1>like deterioration that just went crazy, and it was if

0:49:25.880 --> 0:49:28.120
<v Speaker 1>an alarm went off and sometimes you know, I was

0:49:28.120 --> 0:49:30.960
<v Speaker 1>explained later, sometimes an alarm was turned off weirdly in

0:49:31.000 --> 0:49:33.520
<v Speaker 1>the room, but sometimes you know, yeah, yeah, so this

0:49:33.600 --> 0:49:35.880
<v Speaker 1>was this was this was the thing. But it's actually

0:49:35.920 --> 0:49:39.279
<v Speaker 1>the two insulent cases where they can pinpoint who was

0:49:39.320 --> 0:49:42.919
<v Speaker 1>there for those two tragedies. Oh wow, and no surprises here,

0:49:43.320 --> 0:49:45.400
<v Speaker 1>it was Lucy let Be, who was a common factor

0:49:45.680 --> 0:49:49.920
<v Speaker 1>in both of these depths. Now, the insulin collapse occurs

0:49:49.960 --> 0:49:53.840
<v Speaker 1>within minutes, so whoever did it must have been on shift.

0:49:54.840 --> 0:49:57.160
<v Speaker 1>And of course they can pull the rosters or for

0:49:57.320 --> 0:50:01.400
<v Speaker 1>UK people, rotors they call them rote Really, yeah, what

0:50:01.440 --> 0:50:04.440
<v Speaker 1>does that mean? It's just the same yea just wrote

0:50:04.440 --> 0:50:07.399
<v Speaker 1>her and they can see that Lucy was there every time.

0:50:08.280 --> 0:50:11.000
<v Speaker 1>They then crossed reference the other incidents and the same

0:50:11.080 --> 0:50:14.279
<v Speaker 1>pattern appeared by the force cap. By the fourth case

0:50:14.320 --> 0:50:17.920
<v Speaker 1>it was proven, and by the last case it was absolute.

0:50:19.480 --> 0:50:24.000
<v Speaker 1>So the police now had to arrest Lucy Leppie. On

0:50:24.040 --> 0:50:28.919
<v Speaker 1>the third of July twenty eighteen, police knocked on Lucy's door,

0:50:29.040 --> 0:50:33.240
<v Speaker 1>three years after this or started, Yeah God, who answered

0:50:33.280 --> 0:50:36.080
<v Speaker 1>and was extremely calm, not panicking at all, and did

0:50:36.080 --> 0:50:39.399
<v Speaker 1>not protest her innocence. As she was taken to the car,

0:50:39.480 --> 0:50:42.160
<v Speaker 1>she politely asked if she can have her seat move

0:50:42.239 --> 0:50:46.759
<v Speaker 1>forward as she recently had knee surgery. Even throughout the interviews,

0:50:46.920 --> 0:50:50.520
<v Speaker 1>detectives all said she didn't panic at all and was

0:50:50.600 --> 0:50:55.640
<v Speaker 1>really cooperative the fuck. Meanwhile, police began searching Lucy's home.

0:50:56.320 --> 0:50:59.240
<v Speaker 1>Her bedroom was decorated in pink and white, with Teddy

0:50:59.239 --> 0:51:03.120
<v Speaker 1>de bears on the display, glittery photo framed slogan artwork,

0:51:03.160 --> 0:51:06.320
<v Speaker 1>and fairy lights. At the age of thirty three, Yeah

0:51:06.520 --> 0:51:10.440
<v Speaker 1>by all appearance as an ordinary, unremarkable room. Many reports

0:51:10.520 --> 0:51:14.040
<v Speaker 1>later focused heavily on the teddy bears and the seemingly

0:51:14.200 --> 0:51:18.000
<v Speaker 1>juvenile decorps, but It's difficult to see how that alone

0:51:18.000 --> 0:51:20.680
<v Speaker 1>would ever prove anything. Of course, it was certainly not

0:51:20.719 --> 0:51:25.080
<v Speaker 1>the smoking gun investigators were looking for. What they did find, however,

0:51:26.239 --> 0:51:30.399
<v Speaker 1>was much more significant. Hidden under a bed were two

0:51:30.480 --> 0:51:35.400
<v Speaker 1>hundred and fifty seven confidential hospital documents, including handover sheets,

0:51:35.440 --> 0:51:37.480
<v Speaker 1>medical notes, and oxygen reports.

0:51:37.560 --> 0:51:39.240
<v Speaker 3>Oh my god, I don't remember this detail.

0:51:39.400 --> 0:51:42.279
<v Speaker 1>Eight of those documents related directly to babies who had

0:51:42.320 --> 0:51:47.440
<v Speaker 1>died or suffered unexplained collapses. Police also recovered a series

0:51:47.440 --> 0:51:50.040
<v Speaker 1>of post it notes and a diary entry that read,

0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:53.359
<v Speaker 1>I killed them. Oh my god, I did this. I

0:51:53.520 --> 0:51:58.040
<v Speaker 1>am evil? Oh my god. Now these notes looked like confessions.

0:51:58.680 --> 0:52:01.960
<v Speaker 1>Others were questioning her guilt. Was this me? Did I

0:52:02.040 --> 0:52:05.360
<v Speaker 1>do this? Am I evil? Lucy explained later that she

0:52:05.480 --> 0:52:08.000
<v Speaker 1>was surprised to see the police. That she was kind

0:52:08.000 --> 0:52:10.840
<v Speaker 1>of sorry that she was surprised to see the police,

0:52:11.000 --> 0:52:13.759
<v Speaker 1>but she kind of was expecting it after all the investigations.

0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:16.719
<v Speaker 1>At the same point, she kind of known the investigations

0:52:16.719 --> 0:52:19.120
<v Speaker 1>and whispers were happening about her at the time. She too,

0:52:19.400 --> 0:52:22.120
<v Speaker 1>you know, she she's talking about it. She was talking

0:52:22.160 --> 0:52:24.120
<v Speaker 1>about it. She'd been dulls. She was talking. She was

0:52:24.160 --> 0:52:26.480
<v Speaker 1>talking about it. With her family, talking about with her friends.

0:52:26.600 --> 0:52:31.160
<v Speaker 1>They were just surprised when she was actually arrested in isolation.

0:52:31.440 --> 0:52:35.080
<v Speaker 1>The body cam footage showed a cold, detached and unemotional person.

0:52:35.840 --> 0:52:40.120
<v Speaker 1>And for the documents under her bed, they do look suspicious,

0:52:40.440 --> 0:52:45.879
<v Speaker 1>almost like trophies. But she explained that these documents maybe

0:52:45.920 --> 0:52:48.000
<v Speaker 1>were kept in her pockets and she kept throwing them

0:52:48.080 --> 0:52:50.880
<v Speaker 1>under the bed after her shift. She had a shredder

0:52:50.880 --> 0:52:53.880
<v Speaker 1>at home and was going to shred them, but she

0:52:53.920 --> 0:52:56.959
<v Speaker 1>hadn't got around to it at that point. She hadn't

0:52:56.960 --> 0:52:58.759
<v Speaker 1>got around to that batch at that stage. I don't

0:52:58.760 --> 0:53:01.160
<v Speaker 1>know if that's a thing. I don't know if nurses do.

0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:03.719
<v Speaker 1>I think you know as I wouldn't think so.

0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:06.920
<v Speaker 2>I'm pretty sure you can't take any like hotel hotel

0:53:07.120 --> 0:53:09.160
<v Speaker 2>hospital documents home from the hospital.

0:53:09.280 --> 0:53:11.279
<v Speaker 1>I would you ever be doing well as a nurse.

0:53:11.320 --> 0:53:12.719
<v Speaker 1>I imagine you're on your feet all the time. You

0:53:12.760 --> 0:53:14.520
<v Speaker 1>could just put something in a pocketols them. I don't know.

0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:16.959
<v Speaker 1>Maybe it could happen, but I.

0:53:16.840 --> 0:53:18.520
<v Speaker 2>Feel like even if you've done that, you take it

0:53:18.600 --> 0:53:20.360
<v Speaker 2>back to work the next day, even if it's to

0:53:20.360 --> 0:53:20.800
<v Speaker 2>be shredded.

0:53:20.880 --> 0:53:23.680
<v Speaker 1>Read it there. Yeah, it's not your document to happen.

0:53:23.800 --> 0:53:24.440
<v Speaker 5>That's true.

0:53:25.160 --> 0:53:27.880
<v Speaker 1>As for the diary, she explained that she was in

0:53:27.920 --> 0:53:31.200
<v Speaker 1>a really deep depression after all the rumors, whispers and investigation.

0:53:31.560 --> 0:53:34.720
<v Speaker 1>Her GP advised her that she should keep a journal

0:53:34.760 --> 0:53:38.400
<v Speaker 1>of what was happening, not because she'd intentionally done anything wrong,

0:53:38.719 --> 0:53:42.759
<v Speaker 1>but because she should keep track of her emotions. She

0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:45.480
<v Speaker 1>had been made to feel inadequate as a nurse, and

0:53:45.520 --> 0:53:50.000
<v Speaker 1>the constant constant, the constant whispers behind her back made

0:53:50.040 --> 0:53:54.200
<v Speaker 1>her feel more and more isolated. As well as the

0:53:54.239 --> 0:53:57.840
<v Speaker 1>notes and documents, police also found that Lucy had searched

0:53:57.840 --> 0:54:02.000
<v Speaker 1>for the parents of the babies online thirty one times,

0:54:03.000 --> 0:54:07.400
<v Speaker 1>sometimes immediately after their death or even on anniversaries of

0:54:07.440 --> 0:54:10.680
<v Speaker 1>their death. Again, this can be argued that she was

0:54:10.719 --> 0:54:13.240
<v Speaker 1>feeling an immense amount of guilt. It could be normal

0:54:13.280 --> 0:54:16.480
<v Speaker 1>behavior as nurses form a type bond with her parents

0:54:16.520 --> 0:54:19.880
<v Speaker 1>and want to check in. Another weird thing is she

0:54:19.960 --> 0:54:23.400
<v Speaker 1>had written bereavement cards. That's not weird in itself, but

0:54:23.480 --> 0:54:26.239
<v Speaker 1>she actually taken photos of all the bereavement cards that

0:54:26.280 --> 0:54:28.839
<v Speaker 1>she wrote, and she had copies of them. She kept

0:54:28.880 --> 0:54:32.600
<v Speaker 1>them as a trophy. Oh now, police, sorry, now, now.

0:54:32.640 --> 0:54:34.960
<v Speaker 1>The police did not believe that Lucy fit the profile

0:54:35.080 --> 0:54:39.640
<v Speaker 1>of a killer. You know, someone who will commit these

0:54:39.680 --> 0:54:43.160
<v Speaker 1>heinous crimes. Either the police had it wrong or evil

0:54:43.520 --> 0:54:48.680
<v Speaker 1>can truly exist in places you've never expected. She's routinely

0:54:48.719 --> 0:54:52.319
<v Speaker 1>described in the media as the Vanilla killer because of

0:54:52.360 --> 0:54:55.759
<v Speaker 1>how ordinary and boring she is. Oh, I hate that.

0:54:55.800 --> 0:54:56.920
<v Speaker 1>I hate that. I hate that.

0:54:57.080 --> 0:54:59.919
<v Speaker 2>Just that is so awful to the parents and life

0:55:00.560 --> 0:55:03.800
<v Speaker 2>loved ones of victims, just to be like, oh, she's boring,

0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:04.319
<v Speaker 2>she's born.

0:55:04.360 --> 0:55:05.759
<v Speaker 1>I'mrittis not bort.

0:55:05.560 --> 0:55:08.440
<v Speaker 2>Like, there's nothing boring about these people's lives and what

0:55:08.520 --> 0:55:10.280
<v Speaker 2>has happened to them exactly.

0:55:10.800 --> 0:55:14.680
<v Speaker 1>By this point police were convinced that Lucy was guilty. Wow.

0:55:14.880 --> 0:55:18.239
<v Speaker 1>Colleagues and even parents cited Lucy being by the bedside

0:55:18.239 --> 0:55:22.480
<v Speaker 1>of these babies just before incidents occurred. This was really

0:55:22.560 --> 0:55:26.840
<v Speaker 1>damning for Lucy. There was a lot of circumstantial evidence.

0:55:27.960 --> 0:55:31.439
<v Speaker 1>On the tenth of October twenty twenty two, Lucy's trial

0:55:31.480 --> 0:55:35.640
<v Speaker 1>began and went for ten months what at the Manchester

0:55:35.760 --> 0:55:37.239
<v Speaker 1>Crown Court, And.

0:55:37.160 --> 0:55:40.280
<v Speaker 2>God, that's a long time after So she was arrested

0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:43.880
<v Speaker 2>in twenty fifth eighteen and the trial was four years

0:55:43.960 --> 0:55:45.160
<v Speaker 2>later far out.

0:55:46.200 --> 0:55:48.839
<v Speaker 1>It was one of the longest trials in British History who.

0:55:50.000 --> 0:55:53.400
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was accused of murdering seven babies and the attempt

0:55:53.400 --> 0:55:58.640
<v Speaker 1>to murder of fifteen. Ludy Lucy pled not guilty to

0:55:58.719 --> 0:56:03.080
<v Speaker 1>the chargers. The prosecution's evidence centered around the blood tests

0:56:03.520 --> 0:56:10.840
<v Speaker 1>results showing insulin Please insulin are poison into infants. Everything

0:56:10.840 --> 0:56:13.480
<v Speaker 1>else they argued was supporting the fact that she was guilty.

0:56:13.960 --> 0:56:17.040
<v Speaker 1>The names were anonymous in the case. The infant's names

0:56:17.040 --> 0:56:20.239
<v Speaker 1>were assigned a letter from A to Q so q

0:56:20.680 --> 0:56:24.400
<v Speaker 1>my God. The first case was that of A and

0:56:24.480 --> 0:56:28.880
<v Speaker 1>B born prematurely, who were progressing well. Lucy was assigned

0:56:28.880 --> 0:56:33.160
<v Speaker 1>the designated nurse for child A. Things deteriorated in a

0:56:33.160 --> 0:56:37.080
<v Speaker 1>couple of hours the shift, so the nurse who had

0:56:38.360 --> 0:56:41.120
<v Speaker 1>the shift of child A had passed. Child B also

0:56:41.200 --> 0:56:44.520
<v Speaker 1>passed in a similar way after an oxygen tube was dislodged.

0:56:45.320 --> 0:56:47.120
<v Speaker 1>Now I won't go to any more details of the

0:56:47.120 --> 0:56:50.200
<v Speaker 1>babies here. It is horrific and even if accidental, not

0:56:50.320 --> 0:56:52.359
<v Speaker 1>something that we ever need to go into. I've done

0:56:52.400 --> 0:56:55.640
<v Speaker 1>this research so you don't have to. Each child seemed

0:56:55.640 --> 0:56:58.879
<v Speaker 1>to be progressing well, and then in each case there

0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:02.560
<v Speaker 1>seemed to be a chain progress. Child G had been

0:57:02.600 --> 0:57:06.399
<v Speaker 1>overfed Lucy could have snuck in with her monitor being

0:57:06.440 --> 0:57:09.520
<v Speaker 1>turned off and not logged the other feed. The details

0:57:09.560 --> 0:57:11.600
<v Speaker 1>go on and on, so what really had happened. It

0:57:11.680 --> 0:57:13.600
<v Speaker 1>was all circumstantial really apart from.

0:57:13.480 --> 0:57:16.040
<v Speaker 2>The and it was not the same cause of death

0:57:16.080 --> 0:57:16.840
<v Speaker 2>in me exactly.

0:57:17.000 --> 0:57:18.840
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there was overfeeding, there was all this other stuff,

0:57:18.880 --> 0:57:23.000
<v Speaker 1>but it was also constantial. Basically, Lucy was the only

0:57:23.120 --> 0:57:26.880
<v Speaker 1>one of two nurses on duty on several occasions. Lucy

0:57:26.960 --> 0:57:31.240
<v Speaker 1>was a common denominator in these In the incidents, both

0:57:31.280 --> 0:57:34.640
<v Speaker 1>prosecution and defense as well as Lucy agreed that the

0:57:34.680 --> 0:57:37.960
<v Speaker 1>insulin levels found in the infants could not have been

0:57:38.000 --> 0:57:43.240
<v Speaker 1>possible without the sea peptide rising too. But all Lucy

0:57:43.280 --> 0:57:46.360
<v Speaker 1>said in her defense was all I can do is

0:57:46.400 --> 0:57:51.000
<v Speaker 1>speak for myself and that I did not do this bravely.

0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:54.320
<v Speaker 1>Some of the parents testified in court, Oh god, those

0:57:54.520 --> 0:57:58.000
<v Speaker 1>poor people. There was also testimony from another nurse who

0:57:58.000 --> 0:58:00.320
<v Speaker 1>found Lucy watching and doing nothing to help in a

0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:05.880
<v Speaker 1>clear emergency. Over the ten months each case was discussed

0:58:05.920 --> 0:58:08.720
<v Speaker 1>a to Q, the prosecution was able to show a

0:58:08.760 --> 0:58:12.120
<v Speaker 1>graph showing that each time a child collapsed or died,

0:58:12.280 --> 0:58:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was there. The pattern was far too consistent for

0:58:16.160 --> 0:58:22.280
<v Speaker 1>it to be a coincidence, every single one. The prosecution

0:58:22.440 --> 0:58:26.760
<v Speaker 1>was very careful not to claim that this was statistical

0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:29.880
<v Speaker 1>proof of her guilt, but it was one brick in

0:58:29.880 --> 0:58:32.919
<v Speaker 1>the wall, although a very heavy one. The defense team,

0:58:32.960 --> 0:58:36.080
<v Speaker 1>of course scrutinizes evidence, but not in a way that

0:58:36.160 --> 0:58:40.760
<v Speaker 1>seemed to sway the jury. While this was really persuasive material,

0:58:40.800 --> 0:58:43.560
<v Speaker 1>A group of setians stated after the trial that the

0:58:43.720 --> 0:58:48.200
<v Speaker 1>data was essentially meaningless and flawed. They explained that the

0:58:48.280 --> 0:58:51.960
<v Speaker 1>chart didn't control for basic variables, which child was the

0:58:52.000 --> 0:58:55.880
<v Speaker 1>sickest on which days, which nurses were actually assigned to,

0:58:55.920 --> 0:58:59.560
<v Speaker 1>which infants, which nurses regularly worked with the sickest children,

0:58:59.600 --> 0:59:03.120
<v Speaker 1>and did look Ucy simply just work more ships. If

0:59:03.160 --> 0:59:06.240
<v Speaker 1>you didn't control for those factors, then the chart is

0:59:06.360 --> 0:59:11.240
<v Speaker 1>very misleading. It also shows a very small amount of data.

0:59:11.800 --> 0:59:14.200
<v Speaker 1>In other words, they went with the assumption that Lucy

0:59:14.320 --> 0:59:17.960
<v Speaker 1>was guilty and then leant into evidence to support that theory.

0:59:19.240 --> 0:59:24.400
<v Speaker 1>Lucy spent fourteen days under cross examination. She was calm,

0:59:24.560 --> 0:59:28.600
<v Speaker 1>maintained her innocence, softly spoken, and rarely showed any emotion.

0:59:29.480 --> 0:59:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Her core defense was that she didn't do anything wrong

0:59:32.640 --> 0:59:35.280
<v Speaker 1>and she was being used as a scapegoat for the

0:59:35.320 --> 0:59:40.000
<v Speaker 1>wider failings within the ward. When she was pressed for specifics,

0:59:40.160 --> 0:59:43.560
<v Speaker 1>she struggled to answer any kinds of questions or elaborate.

0:59:44.360 --> 0:59:46.760
<v Speaker 1>You would expect her to have some kind of explanation

0:59:46.840 --> 0:59:48.120
<v Speaker 1>in her defense, which she did.

0:59:48.040 --> 0:59:54.480
<v Speaker 2>Not, especially after four years exactly of standing accused of something,

0:59:54.840 --> 0:59:58.760
<v Speaker 2>if you really really didn't do it, you think you'd

0:59:58.800 --> 1:00:00.840
<v Speaker 2>have a pretty clear argument as.

1:00:00.720 --> 1:00:04.360
<v Speaker 1>To what you think happened exactly, you would. Yeah, it

1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:07.480
<v Speaker 1>was not persuasive enough for the jury. She said that

1:00:07.520 --> 1:00:10.800
<v Speaker 1>it was all due to understaffing, a stressful environment, under

1:00:10.840 --> 1:00:14.440
<v Speaker 1>resourcing which led to shortcuts being taken every time in

1:00:14.480 --> 1:00:19.880
<v Speaker 1>medical procedures. This almost cemented her guilt. After ten months,

1:00:20.040 --> 1:00:24.160
<v Speaker 1>the trial ended on the tenth of July twenty twenty three.

1:00:24.640 --> 1:00:29.280
<v Speaker 1>The jury began their deliberations after twenty two days. They

1:00:29.320 --> 1:00:32.440
<v Speaker 1>returned with a verdict twenty two day. On top of

1:00:32.440 --> 1:00:37.600
<v Speaker 1>the ten months same jury throughout. On August thirteen, twenty

1:00:37.760 --> 1:00:41.000
<v Speaker 1>twenty three, the jury found her guilty of seven murders

1:00:41.040 --> 1:00:45.480
<v Speaker 1>and six attempted murders. Three of the counts were left undecided.

1:00:46.160 --> 1:00:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Lucy was sentenced on the twenty first of August twenty

1:00:49.200 --> 1:00:54.520
<v Speaker 1>twenty three to fourteen life orders. She's only the fourth

1:00:54.520 --> 1:00:58.000
<v Speaker 1>woman in British history to receive that kind of sentence,

1:00:58.080 --> 1:01:02.440
<v Speaker 1>along with Myra Hinley and Rosemary w Wow. The court

1:01:02.520 --> 1:01:07.880
<v Speaker 1>accepted her behavior as deliberate. This didn't bring back the losses,

1:01:08.280 --> 1:01:10.880
<v Speaker 1>of course it didn't, and it wasn't a satisfying ending

1:01:10.960 --> 1:01:16.240
<v Speaker 1>for anyone, because what was the fucking motive? Yes, birthdays

1:01:16.240 --> 1:01:20.680
<v Speaker 1>never reached first steps, that never happened. Lucy refused to

1:01:20.720 --> 1:01:23.680
<v Speaker 1>attend the verdict for her sentencing, she did not have

1:01:23.800 --> 1:01:27.840
<v Speaker 1>to sit through witness statements. Lucy argued that she had

1:01:28.000 --> 1:01:32.080
<v Speaker 1>PTSD from the trial. She also claimed that she suffered

1:01:32.120 --> 1:01:35.280
<v Speaker 1>from anxiety so bad that she couldn't bear it anymore.

1:01:36.000 --> 1:01:38.920
<v Speaker 1>The families ended up calling Lucy cowardly for not coming.

1:01:39.840 --> 1:01:44.960
<v Speaker 1>She should take some accountability. The prosecution did not have

1:01:45.040 --> 1:01:48.280
<v Speaker 1>to prove a motive. But the story doesn't end there.

1:01:49.480 --> 1:01:53.040
<v Speaker 1>After the trial, online salutes and psychologists tried to answer

1:01:53.040 --> 1:01:55.800
<v Speaker 1>the idea of motive. Yeah, because you're right.

1:01:55.680 --> 1:01:57.400
<v Speaker 3>You don't have to prove a motive. But it is

1:01:57.480 --> 1:01:58.440
<v Speaker 3>just human nature.

1:01:58.760 --> 1:02:02.400
<v Speaker 1>Exactly you want to you want to answers, Oh God.

1:02:04.120 --> 1:02:06.800
<v Speaker 1>One theory was that Lucy was seeking a thriller, wanting

1:02:06.840 --> 1:02:10.760
<v Speaker 1>to play god. Others have argued that she had a

1:02:10.800 --> 1:02:14.680
<v Speaker 1>fascination with causing grief and the emotional process of grieving.

1:02:15.440 --> 1:02:19.520
<v Speaker 1>Did she become obsessed with this? Another theory is jealousy.

1:02:20.200 --> 1:02:23.040
<v Speaker 1>She was thirty three, lived alone, and perhaps overcome with

1:02:23.120 --> 1:02:26.360
<v Speaker 1>jealousy of happy families. Oh, I hate that theory. Fuck off.

1:02:26.520 --> 1:02:28.600
<v Speaker 1>You can be thirty three and not have a family,

1:02:28.640 --> 1:02:31.120
<v Speaker 1>and that doesn't make you kill people exactly. And that

1:02:31.360 --> 1:02:33.720
<v Speaker 1>was his online sleuth coming out with all these different motives.

1:02:34.160 --> 1:02:37.480
<v Speaker 1>One more theory is this might have been an attempt

1:02:37.480 --> 1:02:39.880
<v Speaker 1>to get closer to a doctor who she was deeply

1:02:39.960 --> 1:02:43.600
<v Speaker 1>interested in. After the events, the doctor would shower her

1:02:43.640 --> 1:02:45.920
<v Speaker 1>with praise and say what a great job she did

1:02:46.040 --> 1:02:49.000
<v Speaker 1>under high pressure. The doctor's name is written in her

1:02:49.000 --> 1:02:52.680
<v Speaker 1>diary with love heart surrounding her. Oh. They grew closer

1:02:52.760 --> 1:02:57.040
<v Speaker 1>and closer over time. Their interactions were very limited because

1:02:57.040 --> 1:03:00.640
<v Speaker 1>he was married and had kids, and perhaps she engineered

1:03:00.680 --> 1:03:03.360
<v Speaker 1>these events to get closer to him. Hope that's not true.

1:03:03.400 --> 1:03:07.000
<v Speaker 1>When the case was unfolding, this particular doctor stood by

1:03:07.080 --> 1:03:11.280
<v Speaker 1>her the whole time. Allegedly, when the case was unfolding,

1:03:11.320 --> 1:03:14.040
<v Speaker 1>he even sent her a text you are one of

1:03:14.040 --> 1:03:16.520
<v Speaker 1>the few nurses across the region, and I've worked pretty

1:03:16.600 --> 1:03:19.560
<v Speaker 1>much everywhere that I could trust with my own children. Shit.

1:03:20.880 --> 1:03:23.280
<v Speaker 1>He even offered to write her a statement to vouch

1:03:23.320 --> 1:03:27.280
<v Speaker 1>for the quality of her care. He also kept her

1:03:27.320 --> 1:03:30.440
<v Speaker 1>informed of the internal review about her that was happening

1:03:31.000 --> 1:03:32.280
<v Speaker 1>and that was going on at the time, so she

1:03:32.320 --> 1:03:33.240
<v Speaker 1>could stay ahead of.

1:03:33.200 --> 1:03:35.880
<v Speaker 3>The game, which doesn't seem like doesn't.

1:03:35.640 --> 1:03:39.720
<v Speaker 1>Seem legal dovent Anyway, when the doctor was called to testify,

1:03:39.800 --> 1:03:43.280
<v Speaker 1>by this point though he had turned against her. Oh,

1:03:43.360 --> 1:03:45.960
<v Speaker 1>this was one of the only times that Lucy herself

1:03:45.960 --> 1:03:49.240
<v Speaker 1>showed emotion, breaking into tears, which kind of proves a

1:03:49.280 --> 1:03:52.640
<v Speaker 1>little bit about that per So, even though she was

1:03:52.680 --> 1:03:58.840
<v Speaker 1>being sentenced, the investigation still isn't over. Police continue to

1:03:58.880 --> 1:04:02.800
<v Speaker 1>investigate and review her clinical footprint. How far did it go?

1:04:03.720 --> 1:04:05.919
<v Speaker 1>New charges might still follow.

1:04:05.760 --> 1:04:08.440
<v Speaker 3>Wow for damage cause exactly.

1:04:09.200 --> 1:04:12.360
<v Speaker 1>In twenty twenty four, Lucy went through a retrial on

1:04:12.440 --> 1:04:15.840
<v Speaker 1>baby K the assertion that the baby was active and

1:04:16.000 --> 1:04:19.800
<v Speaker 1>might have dislodged it themselves, so dislodged this pipe. But

1:04:19.920 --> 1:04:22.400
<v Speaker 1>she was found guilty in the retrial again and giving

1:04:22.440 --> 1:04:28.000
<v Speaker 1>an additional life sentence. Since the trial, the hospital's implemented

1:04:28.040 --> 1:04:30.160
<v Speaker 1>an entirely new senior management team.

1:04:30.320 --> 1:04:31.000
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I reckon.

1:04:31.120 --> 1:04:34.000
<v Speaker 1>They still haven't lifted the restriction of accepting babies under

1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:36.520
<v Speaker 1>the thirty two week gestation period.

1:04:36.720 --> 1:04:39.840
<v Speaker 2>So even though someone an individual has been found guilty

1:04:39.880 --> 1:04:43.400
<v Speaker 2>for being responsible for these, the hospital itself won't.

1:04:43.200 --> 1:04:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Take apparently, Yeah, it's all understaffing since the trial. Sorry.

1:04:48.560 --> 1:04:52.400
<v Speaker 1>The case has been likened to Harold Shipman, who killed

1:04:52.400 --> 1:04:55.880
<v Speaker 1>over two hundred patients in the late nineteen nineties to

1:04:56.000 --> 1:05:00.000
<v Speaker 1>early two thousands. Doctor death. Well, yeah, the British doctor. Yes, yes,

1:05:00.480 --> 1:05:02.640
<v Speaker 1>in not the one that the TV show was based on.

1:05:03.080 --> 1:05:06.480
<v Speaker 1>In February twenty twenty five, when a major press conference

1:05:06.560 --> 1:05:10.960
<v Speaker 1>was held that Lucy sorry sorry. In twenty twenty five,

1:05:11.000 --> 1:05:14.640
<v Speaker 1>a major press conference was held that Lucy let Be

1:05:15.120 --> 1:05:18.400
<v Speaker 1>was in fact one hundred percent innocent. It was held

1:05:18.440 --> 1:05:22.520
<v Speaker 1>by Dr Shue Lee, a Canadian professor, and fourteen international

1:05:22.560 --> 1:05:26.440
<v Speaker 1>neo natal specialists independently. They said that they were deeply

1:05:26.480 --> 1:05:29.640
<v Speaker 1>concerned about how the medical evidence had been interpreted at

1:05:29.680 --> 1:05:33.440
<v Speaker 1>the time. Their conclusion was that there was no medical

1:05:33.480 --> 1:05:38.400
<v Speaker 1>evidence whatsoever in any of the seventeen cases. In their view.

1:05:38.520 --> 1:05:41.360
<v Speaker 1>They said that every single collapse or death was explained

1:05:41.360 --> 1:05:44.920
<v Speaker 1>by natural causes or failure of care in an overstretched unit.

1:05:45.800 --> 1:05:49.480
<v Speaker 1>During a press conference, doctor schue Lee said he disagreed

1:05:49.960 --> 1:05:54.240
<v Speaker 1>when the retired pediatrician volunteered their services, so he disagreed

1:05:54.360 --> 1:05:57.440
<v Speaker 1>completely with what they said. As for the alarm that

1:05:57.560 --> 1:06:00.320
<v Speaker 1>was turned off, well that was the only one as

1:06:00.440 --> 1:06:03.720
<v Speaker 1>it was only one of the nurse's testimonies. Another said

1:06:03.760 --> 1:06:06.800
<v Speaker 1>that it wasn't turned off. The panel expanded on their

1:06:06.840 --> 1:06:10.040
<v Speaker 1>findings and, like I said before, found Lucy one hundred

1:06:10.080 --> 1:06:13.400
<v Speaker 1>percent innocent and that none of the cases were caused

1:06:13.440 --> 1:06:17.720
<v Speaker 1>by direct hum. The panel offered the information freely for

1:06:17.800 --> 1:06:22.680
<v Speaker 1>Lucy's defense to use. Her defense team took it extremely seriously,

1:06:23.280 --> 1:06:27.440
<v Speaker 1>which means that Lucy could be eligible for retrial. In

1:06:27.560 --> 1:06:32.880
<v Speaker 1>July twenty twenty five, police arrested three senior hospital staff

1:06:32.920 --> 1:06:37.960
<v Speaker 1>members on suspicion of causing death of serious negligence. Their

1:06:38.080 --> 1:06:40.880
<v Speaker 1>names have not been released as far as I could find,

1:06:41.320 --> 1:06:45.800
<v Speaker 1>but is being taken extremely seriously Lucy. Lucy does now

1:06:45.880 --> 1:06:48.040
<v Speaker 1>have a glimmer of hope in the future if she

1:06:48.360 --> 1:06:52.440
<v Speaker 1>is indeed innocent. It also opens up families to a

1:06:52.560 --> 1:06:56.480
<v Speaker 1>further hurt and anguish. Of course, it does there is

1:06:56.520 --> 1:07:00.000
<v Speaker 1>a brand new Netflix documentary about this. By the time

1:07:00.000 --> 1:07:03.320
<v Speaker 1>this is released, will be available. The tragedy of Lucy

1:07:03.400 --> 1:07:06.800
<v Speaker 1>let Bee is not only in the lives lost, but

1:07:07.400 --> 1:07:12.120
<v Speaker 1>is in how we deem the unthinkable that harm could

1:07:12.160 --> 1:07:15.480
<v Speaker 1>come from someone whose role was to protect the most vulnerable.

1:07:16.600 --> 1:07:19.520
<v Speaker 1>I'll do the harm could be from someone whose role

1:07:19.600 --> 1:07:22.240
<v Speaker 1>was to protect the most vulnerable. Whether you believe her

1:07:22.280 --> 1:07:25.600
<v Speaker 1>to be guilty or not, it either shows an evil,

1:07:25.720 --> 1:07:30.320
<v Speaker 1>monstrous person, perhaps without a motive or deep seated issue

1:07:30.400 --> 1:07:34.720
<v Speaker 1>within the NHS. If found guilty. Again is the reminder

1:07:34.720 --> 1:07:39.040
<v Speaker 1>that cypistems built on trust must also be built on vigilance,

1:07:39.600 --> 1:07:41.800
<v Speaker 1>because when a wolf wears the clothing of a healer,

1:07:42.240 --> 1:07:46.760
<v Speaker 1>the cost of disbelief can be catastrophic. That g is

1:07:46.800 --> 1:07:50.120
<v Speaker 1>the case of Lucy let Be and babies eight a Q,

1:07:50.520 --> 1:07:53.560
<v Speaker 1>whose names have been suppressed, but the poor families are

1:07:53.600 --> 1:07:57.320
<v Speaker 1>absolutely at the front of our minds in today's episode.

1:07:57.480 --> 1:08:00.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh God, this is such an awful one, so hard

1:08:00.600 --> 1:08:05.120
<v Speaker 2>to even kind of put into words what I think and.

1:08:05.080 --> 1:08:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Feel about it. I know, I know, just so devastating.

1:08:09.840 --> 1:08:11.960
<v Speaker 1>I mean so that I'm interested to see this documentary

1:08:11.960 --> 1:08:13.840
<v Speaker 1>that's coming out. I mean, we're recording before it comes out.

1:08:13.880 --> 1:08:17.000
<v Speaker 1>But what I was interested in because I was like,

1:08:17.000 --> 1:08:18.760
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, she's guilty. And I started to write

1:08:18.800 --> 1:08:21.519
<v Speaker 1>the story and then I went, imagine if she's not,

1:08:22.160 --> 1:08:24.679
<v Speaker 1>like I mean, in a in a wild world where

1:08:24.680 --> 1:08:25.920
<v Speaker 1>she's not, If these.

1:08:26.680 --> 1:08:29.720
<v Speaker 2>It is the common she's there, but it is just

1:08:29.800 --> 1:08:33.000
<v Speaker 2>a coincidence if that is the case.

1:08:33.080 --> 1:08:35.320
<v Speaker 1>But if she is guilty, what a monster. I just

1:08:35.320 --> 1:08:37.120
<v Speaker 1>don't understand the motive at all.

1:08:37.720 --> 1:08:40.160
<v Speaker 2>No, but again, you don't know, that doesn't have to

1:08:40.160 --> 1:08:44.639
<v Speaker 2>be proven. She would be you know, obviously not right

1:08:45.080 --> 1:08:48.880
<v Speaker 2>in your head. I mean, oh god, I don't I

1:08:49.360 --> 1:08:50.880
<v Speaker 2>feel weird even commenting on it.

1:08:50.960 --> 1:08:51.519
<v Speaker 1>I don't know.

1:08:52.680 --> 1:08:56.799
<v Speaker 2>I've had very close friends have premature babies.

1:08:57.080 --> 1:08:59.000
<v Speaker 3>I very close friends have stillbon babies.

1:08:59.479 --> 1:09:01.439
<v Speaker 1>And that is my closest.

1:09:03.680 --> 1:09:05.720
<v Speaker 3>Association with that, And that breaks my heart.

1:09:05.760 --> 1:09:07.479
<v Speaker 1>Do you think about And.

1:09:07.360 --> 1:09:11.200
<v Speaker 2>That's just an association with people who have been who've

1:09:11.200 --> 1:09:11.920
<v Speaker 2>suffered through that.

1:09:12.600 --> 1:09:14.280
<v Speaker 1>I cannot imagine.

1:09:15.520 --> 1:09:18.880
<v Speaker 2>Someone losing a child and finding out that someone wants

1:09:18.920 --> 1:09:19.600
<v Speaker 2>to blame for that.

1:09:20.000 --> 1:09:24.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so devastating. Yeah, absolutely, and and that just the

1:09:24.960 --> 1:09:28.120
<v Speaker 1>families being there going this is the person. That's why

1:09:28.200 --> 1:09:30.400
<v Speaker 1>kind of talking about the wolf at the start, because

1:09:30.400 --> 1:09:33.200
<v Speaker 1>it is like, that's literally the person, that's literally the

1:09:33.240 --> 1:09:35.320
<v Speaker 1>person that was there, Like and if you see that,

1:09:35.360 --> 1:09:38.640
<v Speaker 1>if the disguise you don't know that, of course not.

1:09:38.640 --> 1:09:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Why would you ever question the person who's exactly and

1:09:42.080 --> 1:09:46.479
<v Speaker 1>you know exactly yeah, like you know, put her life

1:09:46.479 --> 1:09:47.519
<v Speaker 1>towards doing that.

1:09:47.960 --> 1:09:49.880
<v Speaker 2>It's not a job like you know, you've got your

1:09:49.920 --> 1:09:51.639
<v Speaker 2>office job and all, this is the job you've got

1:09:51.640 --> 1:09:55.280
<v Speaker 2>to do today. No, that is like, you know, nurses

1:09:55.320 --> 1:09:59.439
<v Speaker 2>are just the most incredible humans on earth, I think

1:09:59.600 --> 1:10:04.760
<v Speaker 2>usually to make that decision to dedicate your life to

1:10:04.800 --> 1:10:07.080
<v Speaker 2>literally saving people and doing their jobs that so many

1:10:07.080 --> 1:10:09.280
<v Speaker 2>other people don't want to do because of their devastation,

1:10:09.400 --> 1:10:13.280
<v Speaker 2>you'd see, it's so hard because I can't. It's really

1:10:13.320 --> 1:10:18.400
<v Speaker 2>difficult to play devil's advocate to use that term again and.

1:10:18.280 --> 1:10:20.960
<v Speaker 1>Go, oh, but what if she's not? But fuck, you're right, yeah,

1:10:21.080 --> 1:10:21.800
<v Speaker 1>what if she's not?

1:10:22.000 --> 1:10:25.240
<v Speaker 3>But I don't know, it's interesting, sorry to interrupt you.

1:10:25.280 --> 1:10:29.960
<v Speaker 2>The thing about the panel of fourteen independent doctors that

1:10:30.080 --> 1:10:34.360
<v Speaker 2>immediately my mind went to the Lindy Chamberlain case where

1:10:34.360 --> 1:10:38.360
<v Speaker 2>independent people afterwards came to the fore and said, well,

1:10:38.360 --> 1:10:41.800
<v Speaker 2>hang on, no, we don't think that because actually didn'go's

1:10:42.920 --> 1:10:44.800
<v Speaker 2>behaviors are proven.

1:10:44.479 --> 1:10:45.759
<v Speaker 1>To do this, blah blah blah.

1:10:45.800 --> 1:10:48.040
<v Speaker 2>And that was a case of a lot of independent

1:10:48.080 --> 1:10:50.679
<v Speaker 2>people coming out and saying, no, we work in the field,

1:10:50.760 --> 1:10:53.519
<v Speaker 2>and we don't believe that. That's just given me a

1:10:53.560 --> 1:10:57.680
<v Speaker 2>glimpse like a reminder of that. You also, like I

1:10:57.760 --> 1:11:02.760
<v Speaker 2>just desperately want to have and trust in the legal system. Yeah,

1:11:02.760 --> 1:11:05.080
<v Speaker 2>to believe that it did the right thing and it

1:11:05.520 --> 1:11:06.439
<v Speaker 2>made the right decision.

1:11:06.960 --> 1:11:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Who knows, you know, there could be another retroil, Like

1:11:09.120 --> 1:11:11.080
<v Speaker 1>who knows that in you know, another ten years, people

1:11:11.160 --> 1:11:13.120
<v Speaker 1>might be looking back and going what the hell? Like

1:11:13.560 --> 1:11:15.600
<v Speaker 1>either way, like I mean, if she if she was

1:11:15.600 --> 1:11:19.519
<v Speaker 1>found innocent, that's a wild thing to have happened. But

1:11:19.600 --> 1:11:22.800
<v Speaker 1>also if she's found guilty, it's just such a monstrous,

1:11:22.920 --> 1:11:27.280
<v Speaker 1>awful thing. Yes, you know, as a thirty three year

1:11:27.320 --> 1:11:30.160
<v Speaker 1>old just you know, have done this and whatty three.

1:11:30.200 --> 1:11:31.720
<v Speaker 3>By the time she was arrested as well, it was

1:11:31.760 --> 1:11:32.879
<v Speaker 3>happening for three years.

1:11:33.000 --> 1:11:35.519
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah. And also like we all have to do

1:11:35.520 --> 1:11:37.760
<v Speaker 1>the Harold Shipman at some point. I mean, you know,

1:11:37.800 --> 1:11:40.360
<v Speaker 1>the idea of this podcast is we have to space

1:11:40.439 --> 1:11:42.479
<v Speaker 1>some of these episodes out of me. You know, we can't.

1:11:42.479 --> 1:11:43.960
<v Speaker 1>We can't just do doctors. We can't do you know,

1:11:44.000 --> 1:11:47.240
<v Speaker 1>because it is so awful to go through some of

1:11:47.240 --> 1:11:49.920
<v Speaker 1>these and this one was particularly hard just to investigate

1:11:49.920 --> 1:11:52.479
<v Speaker 1>and stuff, because it's like as you go into the

1:11:53.240 --> 1:11:55.519
<v Speaker 1>graphic detail and the nature of it, you go, oh

1:11:55.560 --> 1:11:58.840
<v Speaker 1>my god, like it is so awful, and there are

1:11:58.840 --> 1:12:01.000
<v Speaker 1>other places to find that sort of information. We don't

1:12:01.040 --> 1:12:04.120
<v Speaker 1>want to talk about that because it is so devastating,

1:12:04.960 --> 1:12:06.679
<v Speaker 1>and I think I think I said enough in there.

1:12:06.680 --> 1:12:09.559
<v Speaker 1>It's just like it it's so awful what these poor

1:12:09.560 --> 1:12:13.240
<v Speaker 1>families went through. It's just horrible. Yeah, I'm looking forward

1:12:13.280 --> 1:12:16.040
<v Speaker 1>to watching that documentary. Same, Yeah, I would be interested

1:12:16.040 --> 1:12:18.640
<v Speaker 1>to see what what kind of conclusion they make in

1:12:18.680 --> 1:12:19.520
<v Speaker 1>the documentary.

1:12:19.600 --> 1:12:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know, in articular, I don't know if my

1:12:23.800 --> 1:12:27.120
<v Speaker 2>friends I won't say the names, but to my friends

1:12:27.120 --> 1:12:30.160
<v Speaker 2>I know who listened to this podcast religiously, I don't

1:12:30.160 --> 1:12:31.479
<v Speaker 2>know if they listened to this episode.

1:12:31.560 --> 1:12:32.880
<v Speaker 1>They've both got children.

1:12:32.920 --> 1:12:36.719
<v Speaker 2>And that this might be a bit too upsetting for them,

1:12:37.200 --> 1:12:39.960
<v Speaker 2>But I know I have spoken to each of them

1:12:40.040 --> 1:12:42.719
<v Speaker 2>about Lucy let Be before and they very much say,

1:12:42.760 --> 1:12:45.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, she's a fucking monster, yes, yeah, yeah, Yeah,

1:12:45.840 --> 1:12:50.120
<v Speaker 2>the most horrible kind of monster you can even fathom. Yeah, yeah,

1:12:50.160 --> 1:12:54.080
<v Speaker 2>so that's certainly my you know, was my knowledge and

1:12:54.160 --> 1:12:57.200
<v Speaker 2>understanding of the case before. So I'm really interested to

1:12:57.240 --> 1:12:59.599
<v Speaker 2>see this documentary. I'm also interested to see how because

1:12:59.760 --> 1:13:03.240
<v Speaker 2>we cast this offen with a documentary, it is, you know,

1:13:03.439 --> 1:13:04.640
<v Speaker 2>there is always bias kind of.

1:13:04.640 --> 1:13:07.760
<v Speaker 1>Brought to it. Whoever the filmmaker is, yes, will kind

1:13:07.760 --> 1:13:08.559
<v Speaker 1>of welcome more.

1:13:09.360 --> 1:13:09.559
<v Speaker 3>Is it?

1:13:09.600 --> 1:13:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Really? That would be quite amazing. I wonder if they

1:13:12.800 --> 1:13:15.639
<v Speaker 1>lean just keep talking about Flint, Michigan. Why about Flint

1:13:15.640 --> 1:13:17.280
<v Speaker 1>Michigan so much? Now that's where you grew up.

1:13:17.280 --> 1:13:20.920
<v Speaker 2>It's got nothing to do nothing, literally, I wonder if

1:13:20.920 --> 1:13:23.960
<v Speaker 2>that will lean into or not lean into brother we'll

1:13:24.040 --> 1:13:28.519
<v Speaker 2>explore the assertions that she may not be guilty, or

1:13:28.520 --> 1:13:31.080
<v Speaker 2>if it's going no, these are the facts, this is

1:13:31.080 --> 1:13:32.360
<v Speaker 2>what a jury has discovered.

1:13:32.360 --> 1:13:35.320
<v Speaker 1>This, this is the fact she's a monster, which is

1:13:35.479 --> 1:13:37.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, what they should do. I just find it

1:13:37.920 --> 1:13:41.360
<v Speaker 1>interesting if they are so up to date and they

1:13:41.479 --> 1:13:45.040
<v Speaker 1>discussed the review that was undertaken. I mean, it's really

1:13:45.080 --> 1:13:49.200
<v Speaker 1>interesting that a panel came forward volunteered to say that,

1:13:49.640 --> 1:13:51.760
<v Speaker 1>and that That's why I thought it was important to

1:13:51.800 --> 1:13:55.439
<v Speaker 1>say that the original pediatrician did he was retired, but

1:13:55.520 --> 1:13:58.679
<v Speaker 1>he did volunteer. Yes, so the police didn't go to him.

1:13:59.320 --> 1:14:01.840
<v Speaker 1>He volunteered and that was his evidence that he found right.

1:14:01.920 --> 1:14:06.200
<v Speaker 2>And so that could be seen as a coulde Yeah.

1:14:05.880 --> 1:14:08.320
<v Speaker 1>That could be a strange thing. But also then you know,

1:14:08.360 --> 1:14:11.559
<v Speaker 1>doctor Shirley from Canada came out and said there is

1:14:11.680 --> 1:14:15.040
<v Speaker 1>no way that we can say this as and also

1:14:15.080 --> 1:14:18.920
<v Speaker 1>included fourteen other neonatal specialists. I just find it really interesting.

1:14:19.080 --> 1:14:23.080
<v Speaker 1>I just wonder what that compulsion was for them to

1:14:23.160 --> 1:14:26.200
<v Speaker 1>come forward and say that, because why are you disagreeing

1:14:26.200 --> 1:14:30.360
<v Speaker 1>with another? You know? And and the justice system was

1:14:30.400 --> 1:14:34.800
<v Speaker 1>one month trials, yes, where they were found guilty. So

1:14:34.840 --> 1:14:36.920
<v Speaker 1>that's that's I just found that really interesting as a

1:14:36.960 --> 1:14:39.439
<v Speaker 1>kind of a footnote to this case that we don't

1:14:39.479 --> 1:14:43.200
<v Speaker 1>know what's happened or by the leader of the all

1:14:43.320 --> 1:14:43.679
<v Speaker 1>we do.

1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:47.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, but it's important to talk about It's interesting maybe

1:14:47.479 --> 1:14:49.560
<v Speaker 2>to talk about the fact that other people disagree.

1:14:50.040 --> 1:14:54.679
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, wow, Yeah, isn't it a fascinating story if

1:14:54.720 --> 1:14:58.240
<v Speaker 1>we're researching that one? Because I didn't want to yeah, yeah,

1:15:00.160 --> 1:15:01.200
<v Speaker 1>reasons for me is anything?

1:15:01.320 --> 1:15:05.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yes, oh god, it's just awful. It's just hort

1:15:05.240 --> 1:15:07.720
<v Speaker 2>and the thing this is exactly what you said. No

1:15:07.720 --> 1:15:10.679
<v Speaker 2>matter what comes out of that, it does not change

1:15:10.680 --> 1:15:13.000
<v Speaker 2>the fact that these families have gone through this, and

1:15:13.000 --> 1:15:16.000
<v Speaker 2>that they've lost their babies, oh my.

1:15:15.960 --> 1:15:18.639
<v Speaker 1>God, and that you know, at the most critical time

1:15:18.640 --> 1:15:20.840
<v Speaker 1>of their lives as well, you know, like it was

1:15:20.880 --> 1:15:23.120
<v Speaker 1>the saddus. I want to end, and I wrote this

1:15:23.160 --> 1:15:25.800
<v Speaker 1>again at the end, just my introduction for that. Again,

1:15:25.840 --> 1:15:29.719
<v Speaker 1>I just wanted to read it the end again. Wolves

1:15:29.720 --> 1:15:33.360
<v Speaker 1>are easy to spot, sharp teeth, yellow eyes, a hunger

1:15:33.360 --> 1:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>that shows itself in the way they move. But the

1:15:36.040 --> 1:15:39.800
<v Speaker 1>most dangerous wolves learn early how to soften their steps,

1:15:40.400 --> 1:15:43.720
<v Speaker 1>how to lower their gaze, how to wear gentleness like

1:15:43.800 --> 1:15:48.040
<v Speaker 1>a borrowed skin. In this place, softness was the uniform.

1:15:48.320 --> 1:15:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Voices stayed low, hands were careful, Smiles were meant to reassure.

1:15:54.200 --> 1:15:56.160
<v Speaker 1>Lives small enough to fit in the crook of an

1:15:56.280 --> 1:16:01.800
<v Speaker 1>arm depended on routines, trust, and the unspoken faith that

1:16:01.840 --> 1:16:05.519
<v Speaker 1>those who stood what through the night were there to protect.

1:16:07.040 --> 1:16:09.800
<v Speaker 1>No one thought to question the figure who blended so

1:16:09.880 --> 1:16:13.840
<v Speaker 1>completely into that promise, who spoke the language of care fluently,

1:16:14.200 --> 1:16:18.599
<v Speaker 1>who appeared when alarm sounded, who seemed to grieve when

1:16:18.640 --> 1:16:22.599
<v Speaker 1>things went wrong. That was the story of a wolf

1:16:22.680 --> 1:16:25.880
<v Speaker 1>in sheep's clothing, not one that proud on the edges,

1:16:26.200 --> 1:16:28.439
<v Speaker 1>but one that stood at the center of the flock.

1:16:29.240 --> 1:16:32.400
<v Speaker 1>It is a story about how evil does not always

1:16:32.439 --> 1:16:36.400
<v Speaker 1>announce itself with noise or chaos, but sometimes arrives quietly,

1:16:36.880 --> 1:16:40.719
<v Speaker 1>wrapped in kindness, waiting for the moment when no one

1:16:40.800 --> 1:16:44.559
<v Speaker 1>is looking closely enough to see the teeth beneath the wall.

1:16:45.720 --> 1:16:49.799
<v Speaker 1>We're back with a mail bag section in just a moment. Hey, everybody,

1:16:49.800 --> 1:16:51.080
<v Speaker 1>it's a mail bag section.

1:16:51.160 --> 1:16:53.160
<v Speaker 3>She eats a mail bag, eats the mail bag.

1:16:53.920 --> 1:16:57.120
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. The first Internet letter comes

1:16:57.160 --> 1:17:00.160
<v Speaker 1>from gem up with a J. There's so many, so

1:17:00.240 --> 1:17:03.320
<v Speaker 1>many gems and as Sammy and g this is Jemma

1:17:03.439 --> 1:17:05.479
<v Speaker 1>with a J. But if you can call me Emma

1:17:05.600 --> 1:17:09.599
<v Speaker 1>with a silent J whatever, hah. I want to commend

1:17:09.640 --> 1:17:12.679
<v Speaker 1>you both for your story on the clut Up family murders,

1:17:13.080 --> 1:17:16.680
<v Speaker 1>in particular not making a joke of the name Dick Hickcock.

1:17:17.320 --> 1:17:20.840
<v Speaker 1>Incredible restraint and honestly I'm proud of you both. Thank you, girl.

1:17:21.120 --> 1:17:23.240
<v Speaker 1>I have a question. Do you ever have a moment

1:17:23.280 --> 1:17:26.080
<v Speaker 1>where you listen back to something and think, I wish

1:17:26.160 --> 1:17:29.280
<v Speaker 1>I'd made that joke there. I re playing moments all

1:17:29.320 --> 1:17:32.879
<v Speaker 1>the time in my head as well as making jokes

1:17:32.880 --> 1:17:35.559
<v Speaker 1>along with YouTube. It really feels like this is a

1:17:35.560 --> 1:17:38.320
<v Speaker 1>dinner party where you put out the extra chair for

1:17:38.479 --> 1:17:43.120
<v Speaker 1>us lucky folk. Love you both, jem Emma with this island.

1:17:42.880 --> 1:17:45.799
<v Speaker 3>JA, Oh my god, that's one of my favorite messages.

1:17:45.920 --> 1:17:46.439
<v Speaker 1>That great.

1:17:46.600 --> 1:17:49.360
<v Speaker 2>We love that really really really love when people say.

1:17:49.400 --> 1:17:52.200
<v Speaker 2>It feels like they're yeah, that's what we do.

1:17:52.640 --> 1:17:53.639
<v Speaker 1>That's also very funny.

1:17:53.720 --> 1:17:56.479
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I thought when we were talking about a horrible murderer,

1:17:56.520 --> 1:17:58.519
<v Speaker 2>we shouldn't make a dick hickcock joke.

1:17:58.600 --> 1:18:02.439
<v Speaker 1>But I mean it's there for you. I know, that's

1:18:02.520 --> 1:18:04.360
<v Speaker 1>up to you. Off Mike, you can say that, you

1:18:04.360 --> 1:18:07.240
<v Speaker 1>can giggle along kick. But she said, yeah, do you

1:18:07.240 --> 1:18:09.479
<v Speaker 1>ever do you ever make jokes? You go, oh god,

1:18:09.520 --> 1:18:12.200
<v Speaker 1>I wish I could. Oh yeah, so often. You know

1:18:12.240 --> 1:18:12.880
<v Speaker 1>it's funny as well.

1:18:12.920 --> 1:18:14.680
<v Speaker 2>I'll like listen back to my episodes because you do

1:18:14.720 --> 1:18:17.080
<v Speaker 2>all the editing. Yeah, so you listen while you're editing.

1:18:17.800 --> 1:18:19.639
<v Speaker 2>I will then listen to the finish thing when it's

1:18:19.640 --> 1:18:22.680
<v Speaker 2>out there. You know, what's my theater and what's not

1:18:22.800 --> 1:18:25.639
<v Speaker 2>for you know, when people message us and to respond

1:18:25.680 --> 1:18:28.840
<v Speaker 2>and everything and I'll hear you say something, and as

1:18:28.880 --> 1:18:32.080
<v Speaker 2>I'm listening, like in my car or whatever, I'll kind

1:18:32.120 --> 1:18:35.000
<v Speaker 2>of in my head comment what I think of a comment,

1:18:35.240 --> 1:18:37.200
<v Speaker 2>and then I hear myself in the recording comment.

1:18:39.920 --> 1:18:41.679
<v Speaker 1>I'm just like, oh, yeah, I am.

1:18:41.680 --> 1:18:44.000
<v Speaker 2>Just myself and that because I've thought of the same

1:18:44.040 --> 1:18:45.120
<v Speaker 2>comeback right now as well.

1:18:45.160 --> 1:18:49.840
<v Speaker 1>And I already did this one come from Nicola. What

1:18:49.960 --> 1:18:52.880
<v Speaker 1>a fabulous episode. This is a John Ronson episode. Oh yeah,

1:18:52.960 --> 1:18:57.200
<v Speaker 1>John Ronson. John brons from John Ronson is such an

1:18:57.200 --> 1:19:00.200
<v Speaker 1>interesting man. Really appreciate this great listen. Thank you, I

1:19:00.240 --> 1:19:04.400
<v Speaker 1>mean Georgia, Oh, thank you. We love, we love John Ronson.

1:19:04.400 --> 1:19:05.599
<v Speaker 1>That was so much fun. Oh.

1:19:05.720 --> 1:19:09.240
<v Speaker 2>I went straight to work after that recording, and I

1:19:09.280 --> 1:19:10.760
<v Speaker 2>was a bit hag and I went and I was.

1:19:10.760 --> 1:19:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Like, I'm sorry, actually no, no, I wasn't late.

1:19:13.120 --> 1:19:15.040
<v Speaker 2>But it was one of their girl's birthdays, so I

1:19:15.160 --> 1:19:16.720
<v Speaker 2>had said if I could come in early, I would,

1:19:17.160 --> 1:19:17.400
<v Speaker 2>And I.

1:19:17.400 --> 1:19:19.120
<v Speaker 1>Said sorry, I didn't make the birthday cake a bit

1:19:19.439 --> 1:19:22.000
<v Speaker 1>but and I was like this, guess who I just interviewed,

1:19:22.640 --> 1:19:23.920
<v Speaker 1>John ron said, And.

1:19:23.880 --> 1:19:26.200
<v Speaker 3>Everyone was like, oh, I don't know who.

1:19:26.200 --> 1:19:27.720
<v Speaker 1>That is something to say everyone. There was just a

1:19:27.760 --> 1:19:29.400
<v Speaker 1>couple of people work like, oh, I don't know who

1:19:29.400 --> 1:19:31.679
<v Speaker 1>that is. Sorry, And I was like, don't take away

1:19:31.720 --> 1:19:34.920
<v Speaker 1>my sparkle. I was so excited coming behigh of that.

1:19:35.160 --> 1:19:38.519
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god. Those people are uncle, yeah, grow up.

1:19:38.520 --> 1:19:41.439
<v Speaker 1>They don't know. This one comes from Vicky. You ready

1:19:41.439 --> 1:19:41.720
<v Speaker 1>for this.

1:19:44.000 --> 1:19:46.200
<v Speaker 7>I thought i'd ring an ad for the person that

1:19:46.320 --> 1:19:48.720
<v Speaker 7>wrote in about the movie Evil Angels that it came

1:19:48.720 --> 1:19:52.400
<v Speaker 7>from a book called Evil Angels by John Bryson has

1:19:52.439 --> 1:19:54.840
<v Speaker 7>a lot of information about the investigations as well. For

1:19:55.000 --> 1:19:57.519
<v Speaker 7>my memory, I had to study it in the early

1:19:57.640 --> 1:20:00.000
<v Speaker 7>nineties for Year twelve English.

1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:03.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, So that's about the one about Lindy

1:20:03.560 --> 1:20:04.320
<v Speaker 2>and Michael Chambers.

1:20:04.840 --> 1:20:06.320
<v Speaker 1>Actually, my sister said to me.

1:20:07.720 --> 1:20:11.840
<v Speaker 2>About the film, about the film, Yes, yeah, even Angels,

1:20:12.439 --> 1:20:16.240
<v Speaker 2>she said, that's why that cat cry.

1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:18.679
<v Speaker 1>You know, the catchphrase the Dingo's got my baby.

1:20:19.560 --> 1:20:25.400
<v Speaker 2>That's why that's so famous infamous America was because of

1:20:25.479 --> 1:20:26.519
<v Speaker 2>Meryl Streep saying it.

1:20:26.479 --> 1:20:28.400
<v Speaker 1>In the movie. Oh wow, that's.

1:20:28.200 --> 1:20:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Why it's misquoted because apparently in the movie she says

1:20:30.760 --> 1:20:33.599
<v Speaker 2>something goes stole my baby or whatever the misquoting is

1:20:33.840 --> 1:20:36.000
<v Speaker 2>that she says in the movie. And that's why on

1:20:36.120 --> 1:20:40.320
<v Speaker 2>like Seinfeld and The Simpsons and stuff that's so quoted

1:20:40.360 --> 1:20:42.760
<v Speaker 2>as the Australian thing because it's Meryl Streep doing it

1:20:42.800 --> 1:20:44.080
<v Speaker 2>in this Australian accent and.

1:20:43.960 --> 1:20:46.120
<v Speaker 1>That kind of that's kind of what made it even

1:20:46.160 --> 1:20:52.320
<v Speaker 1>more famous than just the itself check because we have

1:20:52.320 --> 1:20:54.960
<v Speaker 1>said we want to watch. I just can't imagine it's good.

1:20:55.320 --> 1:20:56.080
<v Speaker 1>I know, I.

1:20:56.040 --> 1:20:58.479
<v Speaker 2>Feel like, if Meryl Streeps and it's about a famous

1:20:58.520 --> 1:21:00.720
<v Speaker 2>Australian case, why haven't we seen it?

1:21:00.840 --> 1:21:03.439
<v Speaker 1>I know, I know, it's so funny. I saw a

1:21:03.520 --> 1:21:05.280
<v Speaker 1>meme the other day that had like just a dog

1:21:05.360 --> 1:21:06.720
<v Speaker 1>on the chair and it said on the back of

1:21:06.760 --> 1:21:11.360
<v Speaker 1>its Meryl Street fay o this. Are there any move Like,

1:21:11.439 --> 1:21:13.559
<v Speaker 1>is there a movie that you haven't seen that? Everyone

1:21:13.640 --> 1:21:19.639
<v Speaker 1>is really surprised. You haven't seen Hate Rivalry? That's no movie,

1:21:19.680 --> 1:21:23.760
<v Speaker 1>baby girl? Yeah? Probably. I mean I haven't seen what

1:21:24.360 --> 1:21:27.040
<v Speaker 1>good Fellows. I haven't seen good Fellows. Oh yeah, I know,

1:21:27.080 --> 1:21:27.760
<v Speaker 1>I neither of us.

1:21:28.000 --> 1:21:31.080
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, this will surprise you because you know my beautiful

1:21:31.080 --> 1:21:33.880
<v Speaker 2>friend Shannade who lives in Lonnie, who I was just

1:21:33.880 --> 1:21:36.320
<v Speaker 2>hanging out with for the weekend. Now, if you think

1:21:36.360 --> 1:21:40.040
<v Speaker 2>I love musical theater, Shannaide is like a singing, walking, talking,

1:21:40.120 --> 1:21:41.519
<v Speaker 2>singing dancing version of me.

1:21:41.600 --> 1:21:46.280
<v Speaker 1>She hasn't seen Spirited. She hasn't seen high school musical.

1:21:46.640 --> 1:21:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Oh I discovered this today, thirteen years she has not

1:21:52.800 --> 1:21:56.240
<v Speaker 2>seen high school musical. Like, hang on, Sammy, you haven't

1:21:56.240 --> 1:21:57.080
<v Speaker 2>seen high school musical?

1:21:57.120 --> 1:21:58.519
<v Speaker 1>No, Okay, well guess that.

1:21:58.479 --> 1:22:01.840
<v Speaker 2>Makes way more sense than it does Shade, but it

1:22:01.840 --> 1:22:05.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make sense as my best person, my best person,

1:22:05.960 --> 1:22:08.479
<v Speaker 2>my best friend, and I was thinking your favorite person.

1:22:08.520 --> 1:22:09.000
<v Speaker 1>I just got to.

1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:13.760
<v Speaker 2>So you are my best person. We're watching high school

1:22:13.840 --> 1:22:14.479
<v Speaker 2>musical together?

1:22:14.680 --> 1:22:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay? Like I think for like TV shows and stuff

1:22:18.360 --> 1:22:20.679
<v Speaker 1>for more, like I haven't seen Breaking Bad. I haven't

1:22:20.680 --> 1:22:24.799
<v Speaker 1>seen those sorts of shows. I'm like, yeah, but films,

1:22:24.880 --> 1:22:28.400
<v Speaker 1>I don't know the film. It's like two hours. Breaking

1:22:28.400 --> 1:22:31.840
<v Speaker 1>Bad is like a big commitment that into it. But

1:22:31.960 --> 1:22:34.559
<v Speaker 1>a movie. I've never seen a star War. Oh, I

1:22:34.560 --> 1:22:36.840
<v Speaker 1>love a star War. I've only seen one James Bond,

1:22:38.280 --> 1:22:38.760
<v Speaker 1>have you? Yeah?

1:22:38.800 --> 1:22:40.240
<v Speaker 2>When the last one is the only one I've seen

1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:43.280
<v Speaker 2>where spoiler alerts Boilerhead skip ahead if you don't if

1:22:43.280 --> 1:22:45.040
<v Speaker 2>you haven't seen it, the one where he dies.

1:22:45.360 --> 1:22:46.559
<v Speaker 1>So I was very confused.

1:22:47.000 --> 1:22:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I was confused by everyone being like shook us at

1:22:50.880 --> 1:22:52.080
<v Speaker 2>that because I was like, does that.

1:22:52.040 --> 1:22:55.719
<v Speaker 1>Not noting every filming, every film. Hey, we've got two

1:22:56.000 --> 1:22:58.599
<v Speaker 1>voice smails, but it's part one and part two, and

1:22:58.600 --> 1:23:00.519
<v Speaker 1>it comes from someone I've heard from before four and

1:23:00.560 --> 1:23:07.439
<v Speaker 1>I really believe like them. Love their name Woody.

1:23:07.760 --> 1:23:12.040
<v Speaker 6>Hello friends, it is your favorite long winded listener and

1:23:12.160 --> 1:23:13.280
<v Speaker 6>caller Woody.

1:23:15.120 --> 1:23:15.439
<v Speaker 1>Today.

1:23:15.479 --> 1:23:19.599
<v Speaker 6>With respect to the recent episode on the Cecil Hotel

1:23:20.080 --> 1:23:24.160
<v Speaker 6>or the Cecil Hotel, both pronunciations.

1:23:23.400 --> 1:23:25.360
<v Speaker 1>Are correct depending now.

1:23:26.479 --> 1:23:31.480
<v Speaker 6>But also my call, funnily enough, is about pronunciation.

1:23:32.840 --> 1:23:40.240
<v Speaker 1>Because my actual name is Alisa, like Alisa Lamb in

1:23:40.479 --> 1:23:44.600
<v Speaker 1>the episode Lisa Lamb. Mine is spelt eb l I

1:23:44.840 --> 1:23:47.040
<v Speaker 1>s A. Who's is e l s A?

1:23:47.560 --> 1:23:52.320
<v Speaker 6>But I wanted to call and congratulate you, Georgia. Beautiful pronunciation,

1:23:52.520 --> 1:23:56.200
<v Speaker 6>Georgia if you were giving her of Alisa. I did

1:23:56.560 --> 1:24:01.640
<v Speaker 6>end up changing throughout the episode a few times and

1:24:01.720 --> 1:24:03.559
<v Speaker 6>started calling her Alissa.

1:24:03.880 --> 1:24:04.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it is.

1:24:04.600 --> 1:24:13.920
<v Speaker 6>Actually my Hawdrey peeve mispronunciate my neme because I think

1:24:13.960 --> 1:24:19.040
<v Speaker 6>Alissa should have a doubles right. Yes, it really peeves

1:24:19.120 --> 1:24:21.840
<v Speaker 6>me when people get it wrong. Yeah, fair enough, you

1:24:21.880 --> 1:24:25.000
<v Speaker 6>were doing so beautifully, but I swear.

1:24:24.760 --> 1:24:26.439
<v Speaker 1>You have to go back get the receipts.

1:24:27.160 --> 1:24:28.840
<v Speaker 6>I'm sure you jump around a little bit.

1:24:28.920 --> 1:24:32.439
<v Speaker 1>Yeah I did. Anyway, still love your work. It was

1:24:32.479 --> 1:24:36.200
<v Speaker 1>an awesome episode. But go back and have listen. Oh,

1:24:36.320 --> 1:24:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Alisa Woodie, we love you.

1:24:38.680 --> 1:24:39.040
<v Speaker 7>I did.

1:24:39.160 --> 1:24:41.320
<v Speaker 1>I realized when I was listening back to what I

1:24:41.320 --> 1:24:42.519
<v Speaker 1>said Alyssa. A couple of times.

1:24:42.560 --> 1:24:47.559
<v Speaker 2>I think I was like questioning myself between Cecil and Cecil,

1:24:48.040 --> 1:24:50.080
<v Speaker 2>I questioned whether it was a Lisa. But right because

1:24:50.120 --> 1:24:53.200
<v Speaker 2>the name so l I s A is Lisa, so

1:24:53.280 --> 1:24:55.120
<v Speaker 2>with an in front of that is Alisa.

1:24:55.439 --> 1:24:58.800
<v Speaker 1>So thank you for crediting me. Sorry for also getting

1:24:58.800 --> 1:25:01.800
<v Speaker 1>it wrong as well. While we have part two of

1:25:01.840 --> 1:25:05.240
<v Speaker 1>this speak pipe as well, that comes from our good

1:25:05.280 --> 1:25:08.519
<v Speaker 1>friend Woody, and I'm a Lisa Woody, the one in

1:25:08.600 --> 1:25:10.280
<v Speaker 1>the same ready for this, Yes.

1:25:10.200 --> 1:25:13.960
<v Speaker 6>Hello, sorry it's Woody again. I just need to clarify.

1:25:14.600 --> 1:25:19.240
<v Speaker 6>I am aware that mispronunciate is not a word I

1:25:20.320 --> 1:25:25.720
<v Speaker 6>said in my previous speak pipe. Embarrassing anyway, I guess

1:25:25.720 --> 1:25:29.559
<v Speaker 6>it serves me right for going in and correcting you love.

1:25:29.560 --> 1:25:31.839
<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, that's so funny because if she didn't clarify,

1:25:31.920 --> 1:25:34.160
<v Speaker 2>I assumed it was Joe Dad.

1:25:34.479 --> 1:25:36.880
<v Speaker 1>See, you know what you've got to meet when you're wrong.

1:25:37.040 --> 1:25:39.680
<v Speaker 1>And if I ever am I will we love a

1:25:39.760 --> 1:25:41.960
<v Speaker 1>second part as well. Looks like when you take someone

1:25:42.080 --> 1:25:45.000
<v Speaker 1>and you walk off in the same direction. Oh, just

1:25:45.000 --> 1:25:48.760
<v Speaker 1>one more thing. This comes from Matt, Sammy, P and

1:25:48.880 --> 1:25:51.840
<v Speaker 1>g Love. I thoroughly enjoyed when I'm casually playing a

1:25:51.920 --> 1:25:55.760
<v Speaker 1>video game Final Fantasy and I can't help but read

1:25:55.840 --> 1:25:59.760
<v Speaker 1>the flavor text of a quest. As said in your podcast,

1:26:00.240 --> 1:26:05.240
<v Speaker 1>I implore you your magistrates, and there is there is

1:26:05.280 --> 1:26:08.320
<v Speaker 1>a great screenshot here where it says I employed, I

1:26:09.040 --> 1:26:13.000
<v Speaker 1>employs We love. We don't know anything about gaming, but

1:26:13.040 --> 1:26:15.639
<v Speaker 1>we now we know that that game says I employ

1:26:15.680 --> 1:26:17.879
<v Speaker 1>you at the end. I know, but it's a Final

1:26:18.040 --> 1:26:22.600
<v Speaker 1>Fantasy online. But XIV online? What's that? What do you

1:26:22.600 --> 1:26:26.640
<v Speaker 1>mean Roman numerals? Fifteen fifteen online? Is that what it is?

1:26:26.680 --> 1:26:35.479
<v Speaker 1>Fifteen fifteen XIV no x whatever. I'm online mathematicians. Basically,

1:26:35.520 --> 1:26:38.800
<v Speaker 1>Math's not my strong boy in English or Roman? Have

1:26:38.840 --> 1:26:41.559
<v Speaker 1>we got this one from Rain? Hello? Sorry, I don't

1:26:41.560 --> 1:26:47.400
<v Speaker 1>have Instagram, so I'm sending an old fashioned email about Alisa, Lisa, Lisa,

1:26:47.479 --> 1:26:50.240
<v Speaker 1>about Elisa and how she managed to get into the

1:26:50.280 --> 1:26:52.360
<v Speaker 1>water tank. It looks like there is access from the

1:26:52.439 --> 1:26:55.840
<v Speaker 1>roof of the hotel itself. It would have taken a

1:26:55.880 --> 1:26:58.519
<v Speaker 1>lot of efforts, so I don't think it answers every question,

1:26:58.800 --> 1:27:00.960
<v Speaker 1>but it does look like she could have gotten up

1:27:01.000 --> 1:27:04.800
<v Speaker 1>there somehow then easily jumped onto the tank or from

1:27:04.840 --> 1:27:08.120
<v Speaker 1>the hotel next the hotel next door. Also, I remember

1:27:08.120 --> 1:27:10.559
<v Speaker 1>watching a YouTube video from someone who wanted to see

1:27:10.640 --> 1:27:13.920
<v Speaker 1>if they could get up the water tanks themselves. Apparently

1:27:14.000 --> 1:27:16.760
<v Speaker 1>the door to the rooftop was left wide open. I

1:27:16.760 --> 1:27:20.800
<v Speaker 1>don't think security is great at the hotel. In my opinion,

1:27:20.920 --> 1:27:23.360
<v Speaker 1>A Lisa's story is a very tragic accident, and I

1:27:23.360 --> 1:27:25.439
<v Speaker 1>think it's awful that she was so far from home

1:27:25.720 --> 1:27:28.880
<v Speaker 1>and clearly suffering from a scary mental health episode. I

1:27:28.960 --> 1:27:31.759
<v Speaker 1>definitely got sucked into this because when it first broke,

1:27:32.080 --> 1:27:35.519
<v Speaker 1>but when it first broke, but now it makes me sad.

1:27:35.760 --> 1:27:38.160
<v Speaker 1>Love the podcast, guys, Thank you for your hard work.

1:27:38.200 --> 1:27:41.680
<v Speaker 1>And she's actually attached our photos of people in the

1:27:42.160 --> 1:27:46.400
<v Speaker 1>in the the water tanks there as well. Try trying

1:27:46.439 --> 1:27:50.960
<v Speaker 1>to do it. We've got two more. Let's end on

1:27:51.000 --> 1:27:54.559
<v Speaker 1>two more. Got our Dean. Hey ya, guys, love your work.

1:27:54.600 --> 1:27:56.880
<v Speaker 1>I wanted to write in with a theory about that

1:27:56.960 --> 1:28:00.439
<v Speaker 1>Lisa Lamb case. People are obsessed with the believe that

1:28:00.520 --> 1:28:03.960
<v Speaker 1>Elisa witnessed something that she shouldn't have done soon after

1:28:04.120 --> 1:28:07.280
<v Speaker 1>arriving at the hotel. The trauma of what she witness

1:28:07.360 --> 1:28:09.840
<v Speaker 1>triggered something with their mental health and led to a

1:28:09.920 --> 1:28:13.000
<v Speaker 1>strange behavior in the lead up to her disappearance. I

1:28:13.040 --> 1:28:15.120
<v Speaker 1>think she was tracked down and killed because of what

1:28:15.360 --> 1:28:18.800
<v Speaker 1>she witnessed. A lot of people seem to think of

1:28:18.840 --> 1:28:22.479
<v Speaker 1>the murder versus mental health situation as separate theories, but

1:28:22.640 --> 1:28:26.639
<v Speaker 1>I think both are not only plausible, but the most

1:28:26.680 --> 1:28:30.400
<v Speaker 1>logical explanation for a future EP. Would love for you

1:28:30.520 --> 1:28:34.800
<v Speaker 1>to do one on the Uber County five. It's one

1:28:34.800 --> 1:28:39.240
<v Speaker 1>of the weirdest cases out. Why you be a of

1:28:39.280 --> 1:28:42.200
<v Speaker 1>the weirdest cases I've ever heard, and so much about

1:28:42.240 --> 1:28:44.760
<v Speaker 1>it is battling love your work and love how you've

1:28:44.800 --> 1:28:47.439
<v Speaker 1>taken a different approach to the true crime podcast. Love

1:28:47.479 --> 1:28:53.559
<v Speaker 1>Yours Dean from Melbourne, Love you Dean from Melbourne. Yeah absolutely,

1:28:54.400 --> 1:28:57.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm going to end on Stephanie, Hi, Sammy and Georgia.

1:28:57.760 --> 1:29:01.760
<v Speaker 1>Happy anniversary. You guys should be proud. What an impressive

1:29:01.800 --> 1:29:06.759
<v Speaker 1>milestone as a lady of impeccable podcast tastes who considers

1:29:06.760 --> 1:29:11.400
<v Speaker 1>herself to be a Day one listener NACP is the best.

1:29:11.760 --> 1:29:14.559
<v Speaker 1>I love listening every week and I'm really proud of

1:29:14.680 --> 1:29:17.800
<v Speaker 1>you both. At the top of the episode, Sammy always says,

1:29:17.920 --> 1:29:20.479
<v Speaker 1>keep leaving five star reviews, and I would, but bloody

1:29:20.479 --> 1:29:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Apple only lets you have one. Go anyway, keep up

1:29:24.400 --> 1:29:29.040
<v Speaker 1>the awesome work. We love and appreciate you. Steph. How

1:29:29.120 --> 1:29:32.280
<v Speaker 1>nice is that? And then she writes, ps tell g

1:29:32.520 --> 1:29:36.519
<v Speaker 1>to check her igdms. She's missing so many hilarious slash

1:29:36.520 --> 1:29:41.080
<v Speaker 1>horrendous replies to hersors in my humble opinion, Sorry, is

1:29:41.520 --> 1:29:43.639
<v Speaker 1>how great is that? That's so funny? Oh my god,

1:29:43.680 --> 1:29:46.719
<v Speaker 1>that's amazing. Isn't that the best? We absolutely love hearing

1:29:46.800 --> 1:29:50.559
<v Speaker 1>from you listeners, So please do right in Sammy at

1:29:50.640 --> 1:29:54.559
<v Speaker 1>just Another company dot com dot au leave us a

1:29:54.600 --> 1:29:57.920
<v Speaker 1>goddamn voicemail. You can do that. All the links are below.

1:29:58.000 --> 1:30:01.160
<v Speaker 1>You can watch us on YouTube. All these episode go up.

1:30:01.280 --> 1:30:05.559
<v Speaker 1>Episodes go up on there. What should they do? Should

1:30:05.600 --> 1:30:06.960
<v Speaker 1>they leave a five star rating?

1:30:07.040 --> 1:30:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Living Yes, they need to leave a five star rating,

1:30:08.920 --> 1:30:11.160
<v Speaker 2>five star review and follow us on TikTok and Instagram

1:30:11.160 --> 1:30:13.439
<v Speaker 2>and YouTube add not another crime podcast, and then they

1:30:13.439 --> 1:30:14.400
<v Speaker 2>need to also tell us.

1:30:14.280 --> 1:30:16.680
<v Speaker 1>A poordtery bee. Oh god, you love would you love

1:30:16.720 --> 1:30:18.519
<v Speaker 1>to tell me a poueldry peece for today.

1:30:18.720 --> 1:30:20.800
<v Speaker 2>So I have one that has been influenced by my

1:30:20.840 --> 1:30:24.439
<v Speaker 2>weekend away at the festival, the festival, of course, and

1:30:24.920 --> 1:30:28.200
<v Speaker 2>it's actually a double edged powdry peeve. So there are

1:30:28.240 --> 1:30:30.800
<v Speaker 2>two peeves, but they are the opposite of each other.

1:30:31.200 --> 1:30:35.160
<v Speaker 1>So I do realize that there's no way of fixing it.

1:30:35.439 --> 1:30:39.760
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, because both options of what happened now peeve me okay, yeah, yep.

1:30:39.880 --> 1:30:44.479
<v Speaker 2>The first part of it is encuse bands doing encuse

1:30:46.479 --> 1:30:49.480
<v Speaker 2>because it's like, just play all your song, Like, obviously,

1:30:49.760 --> 1:30:52.960
<v Speaker 2>if you haven't played your biggest song, we don't believe

1:30:53.000 --> 1:30:56.280
<v Speaker 2>that you're actually leaving, right, don't waste our.

1:30:56.160 --> 1:30:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Time, don't you don't need to big up your own

1:30:58.120 --> 1:30:59.960
<v Speaker 1>e all screen.

1:31:01.479 --> 1:31:05.960
<v Speaker 2>But the one side of that is because that is

1:31:06.000 --> 1:31:09.439
<v Speaker 2>so common I have found out when Boy and Bear

1:31:09.520 --> 1:31:13.559
<v Speaker 2>performed on Sunday.

1:31:12.320 --> 1:31:15.120
<v Speaker 3>I found a new peeve, and that is when there

1:31:15.200 --> 1:31:15.679
<v Speaker 3>is no one.

1:31:15.680 --> 1:31:21.120
<v Speaker 1>Call okay, really flipped it. It's now such an expected

1:31:21.160 --> 1:31:24.160
<v Speaker 1>thing on course, So.

1:31:24.160 --> 1:31:27.080
<v Speaker 2>When they thank you and then they walked off and

1:31:27.120 --> 1:31:28.400
<v Speaker 2>then they didn't come back, I.

1:31:28.360 --> 1:31:32.840
<v Speaker 1>Was like, oh, okay, I guess that's it. Jeeve is the.

1:31:32.840 --> 1:31:37.880
<v Speaker 2>Former I don't like encorse they're unnecessary, but because they're

1:31:37.920 --> 1:31:39.479
<v Speaker 2>so common now.

1:31:39.320 --> 1:31:41.040
<v Speaker 1>There is a new people, which is when they don't

1:31:41.040 --> 1:31:41.240
<v Speaker 1>do that.

1:31:41.600 --> 1:31:43.519
<v Speaker 2>I think Boy and Man needs to be setting the

1:31:43.520 --> 1:31:44.840
<v Speaker 2>trend and everyone needs to follow them.

1:31:44.960 --> 1:31:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Just play your best songs and get out, and you

1:31:46.960 --> 1:31:49.360
<v Speaker 1>can get out well. I will say a similar thing

1:31:49.560 --> 1:31:53.760
<v Speaker 1>in that shows that go way over. So during a

1:31:54.400 --> 1:31:57.360
<v Speaker 1>season or something like a festival season or something, you're

1:31:57.360 --> 1:32:00.280
<v Speaker 1>going to see a comedy show comedy festival, and that

1:32:00.320 --> 1:32:02.080
<v Speaker 1>goes ten minutes over, So the next show goes ten

1:32:02.120 --> 1:32:04.519
<v Speaker 1>minutes over, and you're trying to get to the next show.

1:32:04.960 --> 1:32:08.400
<v Speaker 1>And I did it myself. So when I recorded my

1:32:08.520 --> 1:32:11.559
<v Speaker 1>show at the I recorded it for the Comedy of You,

1:32:11.880 --> 1:32:15.639
<v Speaker 1>the YouTube channel. I went so over, you peeved yourself. Well,

1:32:15.680 --> 1:32:17.559
<v Speaker 1>I didn't even know that I went over. The reason

1:32:17.560 --> 1:32:18.960
<v Speaker 1>that I went over is because our good friend Joe

1:32:19.040 --> 1:32:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Creasy messaged me and said I wanted to stay for

1:32:21.360 --> 1:32:23.599
<v Speaker 1>the ending, but it just went like it went way over.

1:32:24.160 --> 1:32:26.120
<v Speaker 1>I was like, no, I didn't. And because I so

1:32:26.360 --> 1:32:29.080
<v Speaker 1>up on the it was just after daylight savings and

1:32:29.120 --> 1:32:31.600
<v Speaker 1>they hadn't changed the clock up the top, so I

1:32:31.640 --> 1:32:33.599
<v Speaker 1>thought I was way under and I was going, oh no,

1:32:35.760 --> 1:32:37.639
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, and I finished the show going, oh shit,

1:32:38.080 --> 1:32:40.040
<v Speaker 1>do I remember everything? So I remember everything, Oh my god,

1:32:40.080 --> 1:32:41.880
<v Speaker 1>I remember. And then I looked at my watch. I

1:32:41.880 --> 1:32:44.040
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh no, and I gone like, yeah, I've

1:32:44.040 --> 1:32:47.040
<v Speaker 1>gone to full like fifteen minutes over or something like

1:32:47.160 --> 1:32:49.559
<v Speaker 1>more than that. But because of the show had an

1:32:49.600 --> 1:32:52.000
<v Speaker 1>opening and all these other stuff and we started to

1:32:52.040 --> 1:32:54.559
<v Speaker 1>film and everything, so that went way over. But oh

1:32:54.560 --> 1:32:57.160
<v Speaker 1>my god, and so yeah, I did it myself. And

1:32:57.240 --> 1:32:59.720
<v Speaker 1>so when you peeve myself. But when you're like at

1:32:59.720 --> 1:33:02.040
<v Speaker 1>a comedy festival or something and you've lined up to

1:33:02.080 --> 1:33:04.720
<v Speaker 1>see two or three shows that night, you've only got it.

1:33:04.800 --> 1:33:08.280
<v Speaker 1>You've only got ten minutes, and it's really hard when

1:33:08.320 --> 1:33:10.920
<v Speaker 1>something goes over and you have to run as quickly

1:33:10.960 --> 1:33:12.400
<v Speaker 1>as you came to the next one, and you missed

1:33:12.439 --> 1:33:14.400
<v Speaker 1>like the first five minutes of that one. I did

1:33:14.400 --> 1:33:18.560
<v Speaker 1>that once when I was maybe fifteen years old, no,

1:33:18.640 --> 1:33:23.320
<v Speaker 1>maybe fifteen or sixteen, must have been fifteen, and came

1:33:23.400 --> 1:33:26.679
<v Speaker 1>up to the city and my brother and I went

1:33:26.720 --> 1:33:29.920
<v Speaker 1>to go and see Judith Lucy, and that the deal

1:33:30.200 --> 1:33:31.880
<v Speaker 1>was I got to pick one and he got to

1:33:31.880 --> 1:33:34.799
<v Speaker 1>pick one. So we went to see Judith Lucy obviously

1:33:35.400 --> 1:33:39.960
<v Speaker 1>was my choice and his was Archbarker. Just in case

1:33:40.000 --> 1:33:41.720
<v Speaker 1>huch Barker is listening. I don't hate you, but I

1:33:41.720 --> 1:33:44.000
<v Speaker 1>don't hate edge Barker. You wouldn't have chosen I wouldn't

1:33:44.000 --> 1:33:46.920
<v Speaker 1>have chosen urge Baker. And so we're walking out of

1:33:47.320 --> 1:33:50.400
<v Speaker 1>we have to leave early because like it's like, oh

1:33:50.400 --> 1:33:52.679
<v Speaker 1>my god, Judith Lucy started ten minutes later, bah blah blah.

1:33:52.760 --> 1:33:54.040
<v Speaker 1>And we're walking out and I really don't want to

1:33:54.080 --> 1:33:57.719
<v Speaker 1>walk out, and we have to walk out, and Jude

1:33:57.760 --> 1:34:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Lucy leans down in mine and my brother's face because

1:34:00.080 --> 1:34:02.519
<v Speaker 1>had to pass her to walk out, had to go

1:34:02.560 --> 1:34:05.000
<v Speaker 1>by the stage to walk the door. And she leans

1:34:05.040 --> 1:34:06.960
<v Speaker 1>down and she goes, what are you doing? And we

1:34:07.000 --> 1:34:09.720
<v Speaker 1>went I went, oh, my brother book tickets to go

1:34:09.760 --> 1:34:13.679
<v Speaker 1>and see another show, and Judith goes, who is it?

1:34:14.320 --> 1:34:17.840
<v Speaker 1>Then and then my brother said arch Barker, and she goes,

1:34:18.120 --> 1:34:22.240
<v Speaker 1>arch Barker, He's not even fucking funny. And then and

1:34:22.280 --> 1:34:24.960
<v Speaker 1>then as we were leaving, she just kept shouting, he's

1:34:25.000 --> 1:34:28.200
<v Speaker 1>not even fucking funny. She goes, I'm a legend. I

1:34:28.240 --> 1:34:31.880
<v Speaker 1>was like, you are. I'm so sorry, my queen, I'm

1:34:31.880 --> 1:34:34.280
<v Speaker 1>so sorry, my beautiful queen, the best comedian in the

1:34:34.280 --> 1:34:37.080
<v Speaker 1>world in my opinion, yelling at us the arch Barker's

1:34:37.120 --> 1:34:40.160
<v Speaker 1>not funny. I was like, I a great, I A

1:34:40.160 --> 1:34:43.599
<v Speaker 1>great I had I couldn't be in the sit by

1:34:43.600 --> 1:34:48.719
<v Speaker 1>myself anyway. Thank you everyone for quickly talking about comedians.

1:34:48.720 --> 1:34:51.639
<v Speaker 3>And a shout out to our good friend Joel Crazy

1:34:51.720 --> 1:34:52.439
<v Speaker 3>you just brought up.

1:34:52.520 --> 1:34:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, shout out to Joel Creasy.

1:34:54.720 --> 1:34:58.759
<v Speaker 2>He is just announcing he's got his own national radio show,

1:35:00.120 --> 1:35:02.240
<v Speaker 2>lunch Times, starting I think in April.

1:35:02.600 --> 1:35:04.960
<v Speaker 3>So congratulations to our friend Joel.

1:35:05.120 --> 1:35:06.960
<v Speaker 1>Congratulations to our friend Joe.

1:35:07.040 --> 1:35:10.120
<v Speaker 2>Congratulations to our friend Joel even though he is on

1:35:10.240 --> 1:35:11.760
<v Speaker 2>a competing network to me.

1:35:13.320 --> 1:35:17.720
<v Speaker 1>And also the other thing is that we hope that

1:35:17.840 --> 1:35:21.000
<v Speaker 1>you enjoy the documentary on Lucy let Be as well.

1:35:21.360 --> 1:35:23.559
<v Speaker 1>Thank you for this awful, awful story this week, but

1:35:23.560 --> 1:35:26.720
<v Speaker 1>we'll see you next week. Listeners. I'm going to make

1:35:26.840 --> 1:35:29.840
<v Speaker 1>Sammy wat cheated rivalry this week. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

1:35:29.880 --> 1:35:33.479
<v Speaker 1>We're going to the Cottage Baby Talk Book Talk Star