1 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: It's a Happy Families podcast with Dr Justin Kilson, where 2 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: Luke and Susie parents of three little boys, and this 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,120 Speaker 1: is the podcast for those of us who are time 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: poor parents. But just one answers, Now. 5 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 2: Do you do any organized sports? 6 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 3: I used to ride competitively, but I don't anymore. 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: But like squash, team sports, anything like that. 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,599 Speaker 3: No, not anymore. No. In fact, I'm kind of a 9 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 3: little bit. As I've gotten older, I've become a little 10 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 3: bit anti competition. And I can explain why shortly. But 11 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 3: you know, last last time we had a chat, I 12 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,879 Speaker 3: asked you a joke about a shoe factory, and I 13 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 3: don't know if I remember. I don't know if I 14 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,000 Speaker 3: should start a tradition or not. But I kind of 15 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,840 Speaker 3: feel like, you know when you hear a great dad 16 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:45,120 Speaker 3: joke and you go home that night and you tell 17 00:00:45,159 --> 00:00:49,560 Speaker 3: everyone and everyone goes, but everyone loves it. Well, I'm thinking, 18 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just thinking, looks it looks unhappy. 19 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 1: What do you. 20 00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,680 Speaker 3: What do you call a dog with no legs? I 21 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 3: don't know, it doesn't matter, he won't come anyway. 22 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:06,479 Speaker 2: Let's get to the question. 23 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 3: I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. 24 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 2: My son he's eight years years old and he doesn't 25 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 2: like sport all. I'm worried he's going to get left 26 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 2: out and ostracized as he gets older because boys still 27 00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 2: bonds so much over sport. Should I make him continue 28 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,399 Speaker 2: with one sure answer? 29 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:24,480 Speaker 3: No? 30 00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 2: No, thanks so much, doctor, doesn't. 31 00:01:27,840 --> 00:01:29,960 Speaker 3: I feel like every time I talk with Susie now 32 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 3: there's just this I'm okay for you, therapist, Susan, No. 33 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,320 Speaker 2: I agree with your answer on this one. So let's 34 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 2: explore this a little bit. So a child doesn't like sport, 35 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: they don't, they're not interested in it, they don't want 36 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,840 Speaker 2: to do it. We do often sort of force them 37 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 2: too early in their youth put them into sport games, 38 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: teams games, because we're told as parents that that's how 39 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 2: we build the concept of team. 40 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 3: Okay, So there's two different directions that we need to 41 00:01:58,720 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 3: take this conversation. The first, let's talk about competition generally 42 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 3: and sport even more generally. And then let's talk about 43 00:02:05,840 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 3: finding passions, strengths, and spark. Okay. So when it comes 44 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 3: to competition, one of the things that I was most 45 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,280 Speaker 3: fascinated by when I was writing my book Nine Ways 46 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 3: to a Resilient Child. I began to uncover all of 47 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,440 Speaker 3: these myths, things that people think will build their children's 48 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 3: resilience but actually don't. And one of the biggest myths 49 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 3: out there is that competition is good for resilience. The 50 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 3: research tells us unequivocally, it's lousy. It's terrible. For the losers, 51 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 3: it makes them feel like they're worthless and incompetent and 52 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,120 Speaker 3: you know, no good. And for the winners. What happens 53 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,559 Speaker 3: if they win consistently is that they begin to identify 54 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 3: as a winner, which means that every time they go 55 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 3: out to play, their identity is on the line. And 56 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 3: if they lose, what does that actually say about me? 57 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 3: I mustn't be a winner, I must be a loser. Look, 58 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,079 Speaker 3: Nick Curios might be the best example of this in 59 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:56,960 Speaker 3: Australian sport right now. We've got this guy whose identity 60 00:02:57,000 --> 00:02:59,639 Speaker 3: is so tied up with winning and when he's not winning, 61 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 3: my goodness, he's just uncivil, I think, is probably the 62 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,359 Speaker 3: most polite way to say it. So competition and there's 63 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:08,799 Speaker 3: a whole lot of research that we won't have time 64 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 3: to go into right now. Competition is a problem generally 65 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:17,960 Speaker 3: now in terms of sport, sport's great kids being active 66 00:03:18,000 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 3: and outside is wonderful. But as soon as we start 67 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,919 Speaker 3: to say I can only feel good about myself if 68 00:03:22,919 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 3: I make somebody feel bad about themselves. That is, I 69 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:27,519 Speaker 3: can only feel good about me if I win. And 70 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 3: therefore you I mean, it's a zero some game. Most sport. 71 00:03:31,639 --> 00:03:36,720 Speaker 3: Unless we're actually unless we're building relationships and we're building 72 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 3: a level of competence and mastery, we're not going to 73 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 3: get good outcomes from forcing the kids into sport. We 74 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 3: want the kids to find some kind of physical activity 75 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: that's outside, that's good for them, and that builds relationships 76 00:03:48,960 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 3: and competence. But it doesn't have to be sport, and 77 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 3: it doesn't have to be competitive. What matters is that 78 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 3: they're outside and active, that they're healthy. That is what 79 00:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 3: builds resilience, and that is what builds a balanced, happy, 80 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 3: healthy life. 81 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 1: Within this question, there's a very specific focus on later 82 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: on in life, really bond and the ostracize or can 83 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:11,840 Speaker 1: you share a bond with other boys? 84 00:04:11,880 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: So I just came across a story around Father's Day. 85 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 3: There was an ad that was released on the internet 86 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 3: for a beer company, and the story was about a 87 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 3: young boy aged six. His name was I Hope. I 88 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 3: pronounced it correctly Daniel Gordiello, and Daniel said to his dad, 89 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 3: just a typical Aussie battler, that I'm not enjoying sport 90 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,679 Speaker 3: at all. I want to take ballet classes. Now, that's 91 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 3: kind of stepping in a really different direction and that 92 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: would probably be a little bit provocative for many families 93 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 3: to hear that from their six year old son. I 94 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 3: would guess that it would be less provocative today than 95 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,239 Speaker 3: it was twenty years ago when this happened for this person. 96 00:04:51,360 --> 00:04:53,320 Speaker 3: Actually it was probably about thirty or forty years ago, 97 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,640 Speaker 3: but still still that's still a big deal. But the 98 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 3: dad actually said yes, And what ended up happening with 99 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 3: this six year old boy is that he rows through 100 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 3: the ranks and became principal at the Australian Ballet. 101 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: What that's amazing. 102 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,080 Speaker 3: There are people out there who will love whatever it 103 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:14,480 Speaker 3: is that your son loves. And if he doesn't want 104 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 3: to play sport, that's fine. He might fall in love 105 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,680 Speaker 3: with ballet, or he could fall in love with chess, 106 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,600 Speaker 3: or maybe he just wants to do lego and become 107 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 3: an engineer. Maybe he's going to end up at NASA. 108 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,839 Speaker 3: For our job as parents is not to say this 109 00:05:26,880 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 3: is what I was, and therefore this is what you'll become. 110 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 3: You know, Doctor Justin Corson was a competitive swimmer and 111 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 3: like cycling, so therefore his children should do that. No, 112 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 3: what our job is is to say what lights you up? 113 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 3: What is it inside you that brings you alive? If 114 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 3: we can tap into that when our children are six 115 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,440 Speaker 3: or sixteen, it doesn't matter. Our job is to find 116 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 3: it and then let that spark. If you light a 117 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:55,400 Speaker 3: fire on a candle, puff of wind blows it out. Yeah, 118 00:05:55,600 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 3: if you light a flame in a forest, puff of 119 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 3: wind ignites it. I think that what we need to 120 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,120 Speaker 3: do is look at our children as sparks, put them 121 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 3: in the forest and wish for the wind. 122 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,920 Speaker 1: You've sat here in the studio and you've talked to 123 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:13,200 Speaker 1: us about the fact that our our children need community, 124 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,840 Speaker 1: they need people they do. This is what you're saying. 125 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 1: You say, Yeah, your son eight years old needs people 126 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:21,359 Speaker 1: and needs to belong. It just may not be sport 127 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:22,479 Speaker 1: where he finds them. 128 00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:25,360 Speaker 3: Right, and Australia is just so sports centric. Yes, and 129 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,720 Speaker 3: that's where it gets really tricky for this parent and 130 00:06:28,360 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 3: his or her desire for eight year old boy to 131 00:06:31,360 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 3: be involved in a sporting pursuit, and there will be 132 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 3: social clicks and there will be challenges. Without question, I 133 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 3: don't particularly care for footy, and people still think I'm 134 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 3: a bit weird for that because I want to sta 135 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 3: up in the middle of the night and watch European 136 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,839 Speaker 3: cycling with men with wax or shaved legs. But you 137 00:06:46,880 --> 00:06:48,720 Speaker 3: know what, I've found my tribe, and there are people 138 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 3: who like cycling and they do the same thing as me, 139 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 3: and we get to have fun together. There will be 140 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:53,839 Speaker 3: somebody out there who's into what he's into. 141 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,640 Speaker 1: Doctor Justin Pilson, thank you so much. I think it's 142 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 1: a wonderful answer and I'll be really reassuring for this parent. 143 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: Thanks for entering it. 144 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:01,080 Speaker 3: Great talk. 145 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 2: For more information on all of Justin's books, podcasts, and programs, 146 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 2: you can go online to Happy Families dot com dot au. 147 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: And to find out how to have Justin come and 148 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: speak at your school, organization or event, go to Justinculson 149 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: dot com.