WEBVTT - Tainted Love (part 2) 0:00:11.800 --> 0:00:16.200 This is the case of Marion Barter, a mother teacher 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:20.880 friend missing for twenty five years. 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:24.720 You know, I know something that she was going to vanish, 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:25.479 that's for sure. 0:00:26.040 --> 0:00:30.040 The bizarre circumstances surrounding her disappearance. 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:31.920 I'm not sure if it was intentional or there is 0:00:31.960 --> 0:00:34.120 something more foul afoot. 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:37.080 If you could imagine a teacher coming straight from say 0:00:37.120 --> 0:00:39.400 little house on the prairie to the eighties, that was 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:40.080 Marian Barter. 0:00:40.560 --> 0:00:42.840 What I see. 0:00:43.600 --> 0:00:47.040 Whether you find Marian Barter dead or alive, I honestly 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.559 believe somebody has that key piece of information. 0:00:50.680 --> 0:00:54.760 And the relentless quest of a daughter to find her mum. 0:00:55.080 --> 0:00:59.440 Something had happened, Something has happened to make her leave. 0:01:01.000 --> 0:01:03.920 I am one hundred percent sure, one hundred percent sure 0:01:03.920 --> 0:01:05.080 that somebody knows something. 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:20.920 The lady vanishes, Episode forty five. I'm Alison Sandy. 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:22.920 And I'm Brian Seymour. 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:27.399 This will be the last episode we publish ahead of 0:01:27.400 --> 0:01:31.120 the coroner handing down her findings in Sydney on Wednesday, 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:36.000 thirtieth of November. We will wrap up a few loose ends, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:41.240 but there is still a lot more ahead. Finally, we 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:46.319 have interviewed Julaine the latest alleged victim of Rick Blum 0:01:46.360 --> 0:01:50.040 to come forward after reading about the Lady Vanisher's investigation. 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:57.920 So, as you already know, Julaine met Rick or Frederick 0:01:57.960 --> 0:02:01.760 as he called himself in two thousand and six in Belgium. 0:02:01.960 --> 0:02:04.960 After meeting and falling in love with Rick, Gelaine says 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:08.080 she was robbed of her life savings, forced to start 0:02:08.160 --> 0:02:12.160 life again in her twilight years. She moved from Belgium 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.200 to a small farm in France, which is where our 0:02:15.240 --> 0:02:19.240 colleague and translator Estelle Sanchez called and spoke with her. 0:02:20.240 --> 0:02:22.799 Some of it you'll already be familiar with, but this 0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.000 interview is virtually unedited from start to finish, so it 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:29.760 gives you a better and fuller picture of what Julaine 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:33.320 would say if she testified, and why she wants her 0:02:33.400 --> 0:02:34.359 story out there. 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:40.360 Jelene sidnuvum Guillen or aba, yes, Gillen, it's me again. 0:02:41.240 --> 0:02:44.560 Everything's ready, we can start. Thank you so much for 0:02:44.600 --> 0:02:45.720 accepting this interview. 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:52.480 You're welcome. I feel the complaint so he couldn't hurt 0:02:52.560 --> 0:02:56.400 anyone else. And he continued on, I understand so well 0:02:56.440 --> 0:02:59.920 the position of the lady who vanished, because they are 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:02.239 people in my family that I care a lot about, 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.520 and I was so sad to have lost them. I'm 0:03:05.600 --> 0:03:08.800 slightly sick today. I apologize. But you can ask me 0:03:08.840 --> 0:03:10.360 all the questions you want, all. 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.720 Right, So to start the interview with an easy question, 0:03:13.120 --> 0:03:15.680 can you tell me your name, where you come from, 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:17.440 the occupation you've had in your life. 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:22.040 Yes, my name is Jilene. My maiden name is don Lois. 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:24.600 I've had several jobs in my life, but the one 0:03:24.639 --> 0:03:27.600 I've done for the longest time that I particularly loved, 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.400 but I exhausted me because I was carrying all the 0:03:30.440 --> 0:03:33.080 pain in the world on my back. I was an 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:37.920 insurance broker. It was very difficult. I had a home office. 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.520 I have many children. I've had a husband that was 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.640 sick for a long time and eventually passed, so my 0:03:44.720 --> 0:03:47.600 children were still very young and I had to raise them. 0:03:48.000 --> 0:03:50.960 The irony of the situation is it was my husband 0:03:51.040 --> 0:03:53.720 who wanted many children, and so I had them because 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:57.000 I loved him. I was the only one raising my children, 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.120 and it was very difficult to raise them. 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.080 They have two diplomas, so I'm satisfied. 0:04:02.720 --> 0:04:05.720 It's evidently from the sweat of my bro and when 0:04:05.760 --> 0:04:06.640 I think about. 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:09.080 This individual who left with all of my money. 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.720 Still today, it's very difficult to leave because I would 0:04:12.840 --> 0:04:14.040 have needed that money. 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.840 And so if you start talking about further idea, Devali, 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:20.159 how did you meet him for the first time? We 0:04:20.240 --> 0:04:23.359 know about the ad you published in the newspaper, but 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.440 could you explain it to me in a few words? 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.680 Listen? He replied to me with a very well written 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.680 letter in very good French without any spelling mistakes, which 0:04:32.720 --> 0:04:36.239 is fairly rare, and that I like. Following his letter, 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:39.280 we met and that's it. He ended up living at 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:42.960 my place. I was in a vulnerable state because I 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.320 helped one of my sons in France whose house had 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:46.640 burned in the car as well. 0:04:47.080 --> 0:04:49.040 He didn't have any id papers left. 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:51.280 And I don't think you know how difficult it is 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:53.640 to read you documents, especially in France. 0:04:53.920 --> 0:04:56.440 Yes, well, I'm French, so I do have an idea 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:57.080 of how it is. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:04:58.680 All right, I'll tell you. 0:04:58.760 --> 0:05:02.520 Then. Everywhe i'd go on the ground floor, they tell 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:06.240 me everything's in order, really, but go to the first floor. 0:05:06.400 --> 0:05:09.039 That's where you need to go. And there they tell me, 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.800 but Madam, nothing's in order. And so one day I 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:15.360 had to make threats at the notary's office to simply 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:18.560 get the proof they own their property back. It was 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:21.080 the fifth time I was going in a long distance 0:05:21.120 --> 0:05:23.320 from where I was coming from, and I thought it 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:25.839 was the last time I was coming. They would always 0:05:25.880 --> 0:05:28.760 tell me to come back later when it's ready, and 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:31.680 it was never the case. So I wait for the 0:05:31.720 --> 0:05:34.440 waiting room to be fall and I shot it. I 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:38.640 demand to get my document right away because I won't leave, 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:41.360 and so that's when I obtained it. 0:05:41.360 --> 0:05:45.880 It was like that everywhere everywhere French administration. Yes, of course, 0:05:46.120 --> 0:05:48.560 all of these shows your character of being strongbled and 0:05:48.640 --> 0:05:50.440 knowing what you want. If we go back to the 0:05:50.480 --> 0:05:53.760 main question, can you remember which journal you published your adam? 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:59.479 Absolutely? Nowadays this journal has completely changed, But it was lam. 0:06:00.320 --> 0:06:03.560 It was a small free journal distributed in several areas 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.120 and many people would publish an ad in it. He 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.160 only needed to open it. And the lawyer that one 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:11.599 of my friends really wanted me to consult that he 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:14.600 paid the feast force said to me, because feeling a 0:06:14.680 --> 0:06:21.200 complaint is something very difficult mentally, we feel so dumb, sodom, foolish, imbecile. 0:06:21.640 --> 0:06:24.479 How did we feel for someone's show like that. But 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.720 that lawyer told me, listen, man, stop harming yourself. That 0:06:28.800 --> 0:06:32.279 guy is a professional swindler. And it's true because he 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:35.159 had the art and manner to present things that we 0:06:35.320 --> 0:06:37.680 had to believe him, and myself we. 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:39.000 Thought she knew people. 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.520 I was duped just like a naive, an embassade, and 0:06:42.600 --> 0:06:45.440 so it's very difficult to accept. To find a complaint 0:06:45.480 --> 0:06:47.920 to the police because you can see on their face 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.320 that this is what they think, that you are a needio. 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:53.240 From what you started to tell me, how is Frederick? 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.080 What did you like about him? What impression did he 0:06:56.120 --> 0:06:59.600 give you, or at least what made you I imagine 0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:02.919 that you him or made you want to marry him? 0:07:03.200 --> 0:07:06.720 Well, that's it. I became a widow. I wasn't fifteen, 0:07:07.080 --> 0:07:09.960 so you see how it is. This is very difficult 0:07:10.000 --> 0:07:12.760 to bear, especially since I took care of my husband 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.040 when he was ill for eight years. My husband was 0:07:16.160 --> 0:07:20.760 very charming, very interesting, very smart, much more knowledgeable than me, 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.760 and so I would always ask him for advice and 0:07:23.840 --> 0:07:26.960 would always follow what he would say. So to find 0:07:26.960 --> 0:07:29.520 myself alone overnight, it's very hard. 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:32.400 But you did it for years, Yes, I did it 0:07:32.440 --> 0:07:32.960 for years. 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:35.560 It was a short fall that would get worse with 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.560 the years, you see, and so we'll still call him Frederick. 0:07:40.000 --> 0:07:42.880 He was very smart and very well spoken. He could 0:07:42.880 --> 0:07:45.840 talk about everything you see. And on top of this, 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.360 he had the same accent as that of my husband 0:07:48.440 --> 0:07:51.240 because he was born in the same city. Well, if 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.640 it was the truth, but I think that's the case 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.040 because he did have that accent. 0:07:55.400 --> 0:07:57.680 So your husband was from Belgium as well, if I 0:07:57.720 --> 0:07:59.080 understand correctly. 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.320 Yes, yes, on the border who know friends somewhat? 0:08:02.560 --> 0:08:04.800 Yes, of course, I've lived there most of my life. 0:08:04.800 --> 0:08:07.200 I should know, right, so you know the region around 0:08:07.240 --> 0:08:10.120 lil Yes, of course. So my husband was from Tournam, 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:11.280 so you see where it is. 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.720 Yes, it's not the border right at the end. 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:15.240 Of his root it was friends. 0:08:15.440 --> 0:08:17.680 So you see a guy who talked just like. 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:19.840 My husband, and on top of this, with a lot 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.640 of knowledge, not as much as my husband, but still 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.320 very good. I don't glorify my husband. I'm only telling 0:08:26.360 --> 0:08:29.000 the truth, you know. But because you didn't know him, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:32.240 you wouldn't know. I've always tried not to compare, but 0:08:32.280 --> 0:08:35.400 it was so obvious he had that for himself, to 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:38.199 have the same accent the one from Northern Friends. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.600 Yes, I see, so from what we understand, the relationship 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:45.640 evolved very fast. So how did this all happen? Did 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.840 he make promises or did he speak of the relationship 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:53.080 as long term or and to have common projects? How 0:08:53.080 --> 0:08:53.920 did it all happen? 0:08:54.160 --> 0:08:56.680 There's one thing that seemed weird to me is that 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:00.360 he never made love to me. Never or really yeah, 0:09:00.840 --> 0:09:01.840 but for me it. 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.440 Wasn't primardl But it seems very weird to me. 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.560 Okay, So he made the pretense that he had always 0:09:07.640 --> 0:09:10.200 been like this and that the doctors tried to heal 0:09:10.280 --> 0:09:11.880 him but that they didn't succeed. 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:14.640 But the sexcessive events tell me something else. 0:09:14.760 --> 0:09:17.920 So not wanting to have sexual relationships or not being 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:19.480 able to he told. 0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:23.840 Me he could not, but actually kids, yes exactly. But 0:09:24.000 --> 0:09:26.960 I learned about this after only he never told me 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:30.200 anything about this. What he talked about was that we 0:09:30.240 --> 0:09:33.280 would go get married because he never tried to hide 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.440 that he lived in Australia and that he was a 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:39.440 bank representative. But I was the one thing for everything, 0:09:39.600 --> 0:09:42.840 even his shirts. All of that seemed weird to me, 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:45.920 But he always had good explanations and he wasn't scurly 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:47.320 to explain anything to me. 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:51.000 He was so convinced on my knafe. The bigger it 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:52.800 was the more I believed him. 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.679 That's it to have such a confidence in oneself to 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:57.720 be able to convince anyone of anything. 0:09:57.960 --> 0:10:00.880 He when he talked about getting married in that so 0:10:00.960 --> 0:10:03.360 it was on the way to arrive in Australia marriage 0:10:03.720 --> 0:10:06.440 and so he wanted me to live without telling anything 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:09.440 to my kids, and for that I said no, And 0:10:09.480 --> 0:10:13.720 he quickly redeemed himself saying, yes, I understand each your children, 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:15.920 and so we'll cook a meal for them before leaving. 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:18.800 He cooked the meal himself. I was the one who 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.680 had the emergence, but he did the biggest part. He 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:24.440 would tell me, look, you won't have enough for the 0:10:24.520 --> 0:10:28.079 many people. So I put count on him and same 0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:30.280 thing to go get the money. He never left me 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.000 alone when I was going to get the money. He 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:36.040 was always with me. And so as soon as I 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:38.760 had it, we would ask me to give to him 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:39.640 below the table. 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.640 So the money you're referring to, what was it for that? 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:44.040 It was good to as soul. 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.760 So because my children would come visit us in Australia 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.040 in order for them not to have to ask me 0:10:50.080 --> 0:10:52.800 for money to live there since we don't go there 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:55.880 for twenty four hours. He would open bank accounts for 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:58.920 each of them. So I had to supply those accounts 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:02.680 from Belgium before living and he was the one who 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.000 was going to be in charge of it because it 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:08.000 was in his bank. So since I never refrained on 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:10.400 what I would give to my kids, I gave it. 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:14.240 He found the right way. He even counted the money 0:11:14.280 --> 0:11:14.959 in front of. 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:17.360 Me, right so he never tried to hide what he 0:11:17.400 --> 0:11:20.160 was doing here, As he said, the bigger it was, 0:11:20.600 --> 0:11:24.120 the better he could hide his real intention exactly, I'm wondering. 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:25.960 He said, he wanted you not to tell your kids, 0:11:26.000 --> 0:11:29.200 and you refused. What made you refuse at that moment? 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.080 Because you've accepted the rest? So why were the kids 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:34.680 the last stroll you got? 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.200 I think the love I have for my children, and 0:11:37.280 --> 0:11:41.240 he noticed directly because he backed out, he directly agreed 0:11:41.280 --> 0:11:43.520 with me. He so that I wouldn't better on that. 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.920 Similar to so I went to see my son in 0:11:47.000 --> 0:11:49.880 France and I wanted to bring my passport. I don't 0:11:49.880 --> 0:11:53.560 know why. At that moment, he barely couldn't retain from 0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:56.480 getting angry at me. He said, look, you don't need 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.480 your passport to good friends, which was true. Someone is 0:12:00.520 --> 0:12:04.319 trying to prevent me from doing something. I persist. One 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:07.800 shouldn't bother me with something like this, and he told, 0:12:08.040 --> 0:12:10.240 if any chance you don't have your passport to go 0:12:10.280 --> 0:12:13.000 to Bali, I'll be very angry at you. And I 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.360 told him, I'm sorry, but I'm bringing my passport and 0:12:16.400 --> 0:12:18.960 it's fortunate that I took it because I'm certain that 0:12:19.040 --> 0:12:21.440 he would have done something with it. I would have 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.520 had even more trouble with this. He would have forged 0:12:24.520 --> 0:12:27.200 it because he wanted too much for something, not. 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.439 To what And well, you might want to talk about 0:12:30.440 --> 0:12:32.920 the person is Rick. I don't know, you choose. 0:12:33.280 --> 0:12:36.360 I'm happy to talk about anything. Look, in any case, 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.360 it's tring me a lot. It gets hard to sleep 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.280 at night, and everything you want, but I don't care. 0:12:42.679 --> 0:12:45.080 It has to be punished. If I could get some 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:47.240 money back, that would help a lot. But what is 0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:50.320 most important is I'm lucky to be alive. Whereas the 0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:53.000 person who's searching for her mom at the moment, her 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:54.320 mom she's not there anymore. 0:12:54.600 --> 0:12:55.679 That's what is dramatic. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:13:00.439 July and her family have told us repeatedly that they 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.959 feel she is lucky to be alive. Alexandra quickly formed 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:08.600 the opinion that Rick might harm or kill her mother 0:13:08.640 --> 0:13:11.760 in law, a fear that Juli and herself would come 0:13:11.800 --> 0:13:12.199 to share. 0:13:12.679 --> 0:13:14.840 I believe I got very scared of him twice. 0:13:15.040 --> 0:13:16.479 How did you feel endangered? 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.160 Once because he absolutely wanted me to go to hospital 0:13:20.240 --> 0:13:23.280 to do the sleep of near control. She said, it's 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.199 very dangerous. You could die from it with simply a 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.199 pillow on your face. And I thought, what is the 0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:32.640 bad putting a pill on my face? With a strength 0:13:32.640 --> 0:13:35.640 he had, So at that moment I got scared of him. 0:13:36.000 --> 0:13:38.480 Why did I not kick him out? That I don't understand. 0:13:38.559 --> 0:13:40.960 So the episode with the pillow, did he try to 0:13:40.960 --> 0:13:43.400 explain to you what could happen with sleep? At me? 0:13:43.679 --> 0:13:46.680 That's it? That's it, So showing you with the pillow 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:48.679 that you would suffocate. 0:13:48.360 --> 0:13:51.000 And so at that instance, I thought, what sorts of 0:13:51.120 --> 0:13:54.439 ideas does he have in mind? And because in any case, 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.400 we didn't cuddle in bed, and that bed was very big, 0:13:57.600 --> 0:13:58.120 it might have. 0:13:58.120 --> 0:13:59.160 Been too matters wide. 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.480 Oh well, so I would let done far from him, 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.280 and he did the same for the following nights. In 0:14:05.320 --> 0:14:07.280 any case, he didn't like it, so. 0:14:07.320 --> 0:14:11.600 It didn't want physical proximity. It was mostly intellectul that's it. 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:14.640 And the second occasion in which he got scared. 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:16.840 He wanted me to go back to the hospital to 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.160 do a liver ultra sunds. I never had anything to 0:14:20.200 --> 0:14:22.680 the liver, and at the hospital that's what they said. 0:14:22.880 --> 0:14:25.640 But Madam, there's no issue with your liver, and so 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:28.560 he explained to me. Always was a risk with the 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:31.680 liver because you could be poisoned. And so I thought, 0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.960 what strange ideas he has in minds? 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.120 Yeah, that's it. Why would you be poisoned? 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:38.360 And all the time I had a cramp in my 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:40.920 calf and he wanted to take care of it, saying 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.520 he could make a disappear, and I refused. 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.080 I didn't want him to touch me. 0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:48.200 Right, So you were already suspicious of him, or there 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:50.040 was a form of fad that was already there. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:52.640 It was already near the end. He showed me too 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.760 many aspects of him that were strange. But in spite 0:14:55.760 --> 0:14:58.320 of all of this, I didn't kick him out. And 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:01.560 for that I don't understand myself, because I remember clearly 0:15:01.600 --> 0:15:04.240 that I was scared of some things, but there was 0:15:04.280 --> 0:15:06.360 a part of me that loved it, and I probably 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:07.640 woted in other life. 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:08.240 That the one I had. 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.800 Yeah, it was the fantasy of going to another country 0:15:10.840 --> 0:15:12.720 to live the Australian dream. 0:15:12.680 --> 0:15:15.800 Yes, but what I found very strange as well. So 0:15:15.880 --> 0:15:19.120 my husband's name is Dubois, so in France, my name 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:23.040 is Dubois. In Belgium it's don Lois because that's how 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:27.120 it is. It's below so he was saying jibois jube bush. 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:28.800 I found it. 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:32.720 Really, it was somewhat outrageous to me because well I 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:35.000 didn't know the bush. I still don't know it and 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.480 I will never know it, but I know we can. 0:15:37.360 --> 0:15:40.560 Get lost in it. And I found it a treasureus. 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:42.640 That he would dare call me like that. So one 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:45.880 side of me was suspicious of him, not at the beginning. 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.440 Everydent lived after yes, and so it was a love 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:53.320 hate situation. One side of me hated his behavior, but 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.920 the other side of me was three what he could give. 0:15:55.760 --> 0:15:57.480 Me in Australia. 0:15:57.760 --> 0:16:00.440 I would have had a big house and domestic help, 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:03.440 a couple that would have done all the house coores, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.120 so I wouldn't have to do the course anymore, not 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:10.120 even prepare the meals, because that she did himself and 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:13.720 he was tasty. You see, So all this put together, 0:16:13.920 --> 0:16:15.600 Australia was the Eldorado. 0:16:15.920 --> 0:16:17.880 And do you know where you would have gone in Australia? 0:16:18.080 --> 0:16:20.800 Not at all. And one of my clients was a 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:24.720 retired aircraft pilot. He told me, look, madam, Australia is 0:16:24.720 --> 0:16:27.680 not right next door, because I would have been able 0:16:27.720 --> 0:16:29.120 to come back every two weeks. 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.880 Further excess right, he told you you would visit Belgium 0:16:32.960 --> 0:16:33.720 very regularly. 0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.560 So when you put all this together, it's ridiculous that 0:16:36.640 --> 0:16:37.600 I would have believed this. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.960 It's not ridiculous more taking advantage of someone's ignorance on something, 0:16:42.560 --> 0:16:45.680 or using someone's feelings as a minturn end. We talked 0:16:45.720 --> 0:16:47.600 about it with your daughter in law, that he was 0:16:47.640 --> 0:16:50.240 a professional swindler and it seemed that he got to 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:53.560 understand your weak spots and exploit them. What did he 0:16:53.600 --> 0:16:56.680 tell you about his past? What did you explain about himself? 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:57.760 Who he was? 0:16:58.200 --> 0:17:00.520 He told me he was a shot arm something that 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.120 I was able to verify. He was a gendarme in 0:17:03.120 --> 0:17:06.000 a suburb in Brussels, but I knew very well since 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:08.920 I used to live there, and so the gendarmes that 0:17:09.119 --> 0:17:12.520 the repress sort of revolved from the population. He told 0:17:12.560 --> 0:17:16.040 me he had a limp, and from his recollection it 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.520 was due to how people beat him during that event. 0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:22.000 And because I have myself seen gendermes that I have 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:24.760 been beaten by the population, I believed all of it. 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:27.680 These are the only things he told me himself. 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:31.720 So he never mentioned anything from I don't know his childhood, 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:32.520 not at all. 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:36.760 He never talked about his parents nor his family, absolutely not. 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:39.400 So it would be more inclined to tell you things 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:42.840 about history, facts, things that would know happened in history 0:17:42.920 --> 0:17:46.840 in France or Belgium, but never anything personal. Is that it? 0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.080 Yes, that's it. And for me it was credible because 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:52.440 I knew that period, so it was easy to make 0:17:52.480 --> 0:17:53.920 me believe anything he'd say. 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:56.440 And did he mention anything about the money he had, 0:17:57.160 --> 0:18:01.000 properties he owned, that kind of things. What did he say? 0:18:01.200 --> 0:18:03.480 She told me because he knew what could happen with 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.560 ben Kinds. He changed his password every fifteen days. 0:18:06.560 --> 0:18:09.160 So he changed his password to make sure nothing worried 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:09.919 because he knew. 0:18:09.800 --> 0:18:12.040 There were so many scams and he didn't want to 0:18:12.040 --> 0:18:13.760 be scammed. She insisted on. 0:18:13.720 --> 0:18:18.640 That, pausing briefly. This is a common ploy used by fraudsters, 0:18:18.880 --> 0:18:22.000 warning the person they are scamming not to fall the 0:18:22.080 --> 0:18:25.600 scams a classic ploy to create the illusion they are 0:18:25.680 --> 0:18:29.639 legitimate and on your side, one we know Rick used 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:33.639 multiple times, For example, when he convinced John Oldenburg to 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.480 let him bury her jewelry in her backyard just in 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:41.440 case it was stolen. It worked then, as it worked 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:42.879 with Gilane. 0:18:42.640 --> 0:18:44.840 To mention he didn't want to be scammed when it 0:18:44.920 --> 0:18:48.919 was a swindler himself. It's definitely. Did he give you 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.720 numbers estimations of how much he owned? 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:54.520 No, that I knew from the fact that he was 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:55.720 a bank representative. 0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:57.960 Did he ever ask you to give him a proxy, 0:18:58.240 --> 0:19:00.000 especially for the money for your children? 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.639 She never asked me for a proxy. He told me 0:19:03.080 --> 0:19:05.720 I'm doing it. He would do it himself to open 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:07.280 up accounts at their names. 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:09.360 And so you went to the bank to ask them 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.160 to move the funds into those accounts. 0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:14.200 No, no, no, I had to take them the funds 0:19:14.240 --> 0:19:15.000 in cash. 0:19:15.200 --> 0:19:17.520 Yes, yes, so all of this money was in cash. 0:19:17.600 --> 0:19:21.160 Yes, absolutely, And he was with me and right after 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.000 getting the money, we went to get coffee somewhere, and 0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:25.919 I had to give him the money build on the 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.240 table so no one would see, right. 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.359 And how much did he steal? I know we already 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:33.760 have an estimation, but we know he also stole high 0:19:33.880 --> 0:19:36.080 value items. How much did he steal? 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:38.760 He wanted everything that I had value to have it 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:42.000 in Australia, because otherwise I would have been side without 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.760 all of this. You see, it was always so I 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:46.040