1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: Hugh van Kylenberg, founder of the Resilience Project, was not 2 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:09,400 Speaker 1: having a great day. He was already unpopular with his 3 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: then pregnant wife, but being out of town while she 4 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:16,840 Speaker 1: and their children all had COVID fair enough, he says, 5 00:00:17,239 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 1: when a previously minor medical problem unexpectedly became very serious. 6 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: After some painful injections, he managed to get on stage 7 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: for a speaking engagement, only to finish his presentation suddenly 8 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,400 Speaker 1: feeling very ill. So a few days later, when he 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,159 Speaker 1: finally sat down for a podcast interview with someone he 10 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:43,279 Speaker 1: barely knew after this horrible day, the guest, Libby Trickett, 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 1: asked how he was doing, and he said he'd been better. 12 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:50,400 Speaker 1: After launching into the story for a good twenty minutes, 13 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: Hugh realized his vulnerability was having an unexpected effect. His 14 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: guest could relate, and she shared her own similarly vulnerable 15 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: experiences and they rapport developed at lightning speed. So how 16 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,480 Speaker 1: can we use our low moments for high impact when 17 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:15,559 Speaker 1: trying to build a connection with new people. My name 18 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 1: is doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist and the 19 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:23,319 Speaker 1: founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, and this is how 20 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: I work, a show about how to help you do 21 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:30,040 Speaker 1: your best work. On today's My Favorite Tip episode, we 22 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:32,399 Speaker 1: go back to an interview from the past and I 23 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: pick up my favorite tip from the interview. In today's show, 24 00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 1: I speak with Hugh van ky Lindberg about vulnerability, and 25 00:01:39,560 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: this extract starts with my observation about the type of 26 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,200 Speaker 1: person I had experienced you to be. What are you 27 00:01:47,319 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 1: doing though practically to elicit that that comfort, oh great Christ, 28 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: that those people have with you. And it's funny because, 29 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: like I would just sort of comment because we've been 30 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 1: in a room together now for I don't know, half 31 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: an hour or so like that, and you're like, you 32 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 1: come across as a very sort of warm and open 33 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: kind of person, very naturally, and I imagine that a 34 00:02:10,760 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 1: lot of it is just simply how you are, like unconscious. 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: But if you were to unpack it practically, what are 36 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: you doing? 37 00:02:16,600 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: Okay, that's such a good question. I don't know. Let 38 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,560 Speaker 2: me I want to do yesterday with Libby. So with 39 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 2: Libby yesterday, I don't know. You'd have to ask her 40 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 2: if this is a good thing to do. But I 41 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: talked at her for the first fifteen minutes about how 42 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: disastrously bad. My last two weeks have been so I 43 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:37,200 Speaker 2: had it as this. I went to So I had 44 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: a week with the Queens and I State of Origin team. 45 00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: I was on their camp for their build up for 46 00:02:40,680 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 2: State of Origin one, which was a really exciting thing 47 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 2: to do, a bit like Ted last So I have 48 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:45,960 Speaker 2: no idea about the sport though, so that was a 49 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,839 Speaker 2: bit of a strange experience. But I then went flew 50 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 2: to Newcastle and then to Woo and Gong to do 51 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 2: two shows. And I've had this cyst on my eyelid 52 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: for about a month and I kept thinking, when I 53 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:57,360 Speaker 2: have time, I'll go and see someone about it, but 54 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:58,520 Speaker 2: I just haven't had time to go and get an 55 00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:03,240 Speaker 2: appointment anyway. I woke up having been away from home 56 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: for a week. Penny had COVID. Elsie, my daughter, had COVID. 57 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:09,000 Speaker 2: Penny was eight months pregnant, and I wasn't overly popular 58 00:03:09,080 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 2: fair enough for not being at home, and I said 59 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:12,160 Speaker 2: I'll be home in a few days of him a 60 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,560 Speaker 2: few days and I woke up in Sydney having done 61 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: a Newcastle Sorry the wool On Gooing show the night before, 62 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 2: and I couldn't open my eye. It was stuck closed. 63 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:21,519 Speaker 2: I couldn't open it. I said, what is going I 64 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: literally was trying to prize it open. I couldn't open it. 65 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 2: I remember thinking, I think this is bad and live 66 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: noation of my touring. They look after me when I'm 67 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 2: on tour, and they have got this rock doctor who 68 00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:34,920 Speaker 2: just like he just he I didn't even need to 69 00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: have appoint with him. I took a photo of it, 70 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 2: like me trying mind send it to him. And next 71 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 2: minute I've got an appointment with an ice specialist, turned 72 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:42,360 Speaker 2: up with his eye specialist who was on the way 73 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 2: to play golf. He'd like he was in his golf clothes, 74 00:03:45,080 --> 00:03:48,360 Speaker 2: and he said, I'm really sorry. I'm going to have 75 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: to give you four of the most painful injections you'll 76 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: ever have in your life into your eyelid. Oh my god, 77 00:03:53,640 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 2: I'm not great with pain. And I just my hand 78 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 2: started shaking straight away, and he said, and then I'm 79 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: going to Now you might have edit this out. I 80 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 2: don't know, just in case heads up. If they haven't, 81 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:03,560 Speaker 2: it is out. And your squirmish squirmish is that a word? 82 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: Squamish? 83 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: Squirmish? If you squirmish, don't listen to this. He said, 84 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 2: then I'm going to turn your ilid inside out, clamp it. 85 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 2: I'm going to get a I'm going to get a scalpel, 86 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 2: and I'm going to cut all the way along inside 87 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 2: of your eyelid and scrape everything out from him. So, 88 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:18,840 Speaker 2: because all your glands are blocked up, I'm going to 89 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: scrape out your glands. And I said, ah, that sounds awful, 90 00:04:22,640 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 2: and he said it's extremely uncomfortable. And I said, I'm 91 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: gonna do a show tonight and he said, yeah, I 92 00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 2: don't really care. I need to get this out now. 93 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: And so I went through the procedure. I had this. 94 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:34,520 Speaker 2: So the first two injections into my I remember going, 95 00:04:35,320 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 2: oh gosh, that really hurt. And then he and I 96 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:39,800 Speaker 2: was like, that's one of them. He's right, that is 97 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,240 Speaker 2: one of the most. And then he said, okay, so 98 00:04:42,360 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: this next one coming up inside your elid, this is 99 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 2: this is as bad as it gets. And it was 100 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 2: and I was trying to look away, but it's like 101 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 2: and he said, look, please look at the needle, Please 102 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: look the net. He's like, my god, anyway, so why 103 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: am I doing this story? So he scrapes it out 104 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,280 Speaker 2: and does that, and then I had an eye patch 105 00:04:58,320 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 2: on all that afternoon. I was in so much pain. 106 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:02,560 Speaker 2: Got on just before I go on stage, I took 107 00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:07,080 Speaker 2: the I took the the eye patch of blood went everywhere, 108 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 2: and as I go on stage in Newcastle, Iven cleaned 109 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 2: my head. I'm up on stage and I'm thinking, oh, 110 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 2: I don't feel well. I feel quite sick, not like nauses. 111 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 2: I felt like aches and pains and feverish. And I, 112 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: for some reason my brain was like, it's because of 113 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 2: what you went through today. You're a bit traumatized. As 114 00:05:23,440 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: I'm talking, I'm like, no, I feel realistic. Got off stage, 115 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: went straight back to the hotel. When I wake up 116 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: feeling so sick, how to fly back to Melbourne. As 117 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 2: I'm sitting at the airport, I'm about to go to 118 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: the plane, I went, hang on a minute, Oh no, 119 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 2: this could be COVID. And I hadn't thought about it 120 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:39,440 Speaker 2: because I was so traumatized. Miss I thing, and so 121 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 2: I was like, if I do it, hang on flies, 122 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 2: but everyone's getting on the plane. I was like, I 123 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: don't ever, I can't. There's no tests here. How do 124 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,280 Speaker 2: I do a test? Is this your responsible to get 125 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,560 Speaker 2: on a plane here? Now I became I'll be fine. 126 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: It will not be COVID got on a plane, sneeze 127 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 2: the whole way with like I was wearing two masks, 128 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:57,880 Speaker 2: poor lady. I get in the car and I did 129 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:59,640 Speaker 2: a test when I got it on the way home 130 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 2: and I had COVID. So Penny had COVID elso haid COVID. 131 00:06:03,680 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 2: I think benjid COVID. I had COVID. We had assessments 132 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 2: for out some with all this stuff he's going through, 133 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: and it was like the worst. God, this is a 134 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,520 Speaker 2: long story again, but anyway, I told Livy trigger at 135 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,000 Speaker 2: this story right well, soon as we got there, she 136 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:16,480 Speaker 2: said how I And I said, I've been better and 137 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:19,240 Speaker 2: I told her that story. Looking back, it's not why, 138 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:21,479 Speaker 2: But looking back on it, maybe it builds some kind 139 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 2: of like, oh, like something's empathy or just like very 140 00:06:27,279 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 2: keen always when I meet people to I'm worried people 141 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:31,880 Speaker 2: have this persona of like, oh, he's been a successful 142 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 2: public speaker. He's like a very confident and successful. I 143 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,479 Speaker 2: don't that's not me. Like, I don't want people to 144 00:06:36,480 --> 00:06:37,719 Speaker 2: ever think that. I don't want people to think I 145 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,080 Speaker 2: want a pedestal. Ever, I don't ever think I'm you know, 146 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:42,640 Speaker 2: I don't look at myself and go, Wow, what a 147 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 2: successful person. I don't think that. I don't. I want 148 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:46,360 Speaker 2: people to know that. And I think I'll tell people 149 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: about my failures a lot of my stuff ups and 150 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: my hardships, and I think that maybe builds empathy. I 151 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: don't know. But anyway, we got on really well. She 152 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 2: shared some stories of stuff that she was training me. 153 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:58,640 Speaker 2: So again, I'm doing going to make a very long 154 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:07,680 Speaker 2: story short. I think being vulnerable with people. I'm so 155 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,280 Speaker 2: sorry about be vulnerable with people. That's how you do it. 156 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: And I when we caught up, we talked about how 157 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 2: hard we find parenting, the struggles of parenting. I remember 158 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: catching up with I was on Travis Poke, the a 159 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: for footballer, and we we I mean I actually did 160 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: already know him, but we caught up just to talk 161 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 2: about it before anyone It was either zooons during lockdown, 162 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,760 Speaker 2: but we talked about the Travis ha dadd had passed 163 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: away and we just talked about that a lot, and 164 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:35,920 Speaker 2: I just listened. Mainly I can't relate to that, but 165 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:39,600 Speaker 2: it's vulnerability is so connecting. 166 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: If you enjoyed this extract from my chat with Hugh, 167 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: you might want to go back and listen to the 168 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:49,000 Speaker 1: full interview, you can find a link to that in 169 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: the show notes. If you're looking for more tips to 170 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: improve the way that you work, I write a short 171 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered 172 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: that helped me work better, ranging from software and gadgets 173 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 1: that I'm loving three to interesting research findings. You can 174 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: sign up for that at Howiwork dot co. That's how 175 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: I Work dot co. Thank you for sharing part of 176 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: your day with me by listening to How I Work. 177 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: If you're keen for more tips on how to work better, 178 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:23,160 Speaker 1: connect with me via LinkedIn or Instagram. I'm very easy 179 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:27,760 Speaker 1: to find. Just search for Amantha Imba. How I Work 180 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 1: was recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, 181 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,400 Speaker 1: part of the Cool and Nation. I am so grateful 182 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:37,360 Speaker 1: for being able to work and live on this beautiful land, 183 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: and I want to pay my respects to elders, past, 184 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,400 Speaker 1: present and emerging. How I Work is produced by Inventium 185 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 1: with production support from Dead Set Studios. And thank you 186 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 1: to Martin Nimba who did the audio mix and makes 187 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,359 Speaker 1: everything sound better than it would have otherwise.