Speaker 1: Ordinarily speaking, I was a professional athlete living their dream,
Speaker 1: but behind the scenes there was so much more going
Speaker 1: on and so many struggles that I was facing.
Speaker 2: Soon time, Hello and welcome to ordinarily speaking. My guest
Speaker 2: today is a netball superstar, Natalie Medhurst Natalie CV is
Speaker 2: beyond impressive. In seventeen years as a professional netballer, she
Speaker 2: has represented Australia eighty six times, winning three World Championships
Speaker 2: as well as Commonwealth gold. On the domestic front, Nat
Speaker 2: has played two hundred and thirty five matches, third on
Speaker 2: the all time list behind Cathcox and Bianca Chatfield, and
Speaker 2: she was the comp's MVP when her Queensland Firebirds won
Speaker 2: the twenty year an A and Z Championship. Whilst achieving
Speaker 2: all these highs on the court of it, she was
Speaker 2: often struggling. For the first time. Nat reveals just how
Speaker 2: bad things got and it is confronting. If this triggers
Speaker 2: things for you, please.
Speaker 3: Ask for help.
Speaker 2: Beyond Blue or Lifeline are just a couple of places
Speaker 2: you can go. At thirty six years of age, Natalie's
Speaker 2: professional career has been put on hold for good reason,
Speaker 2: but she hasn't ruled out a return. We caught up
Speaker 2: just before coronavirus restrictions were put in place here in Australia.
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoy the chat again.
Speaker 1: Well, Nat, thanks so much for joining me, Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me. It's certainly different circumstances with everything that's going on,
Speaker 1: but good to escape that for a little while.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a strange world at the moment, and things
Speaker 2: are advancing pretty quickly and changing pretty quickly. But I
Speaker 2: want to say congratulations because you're having a baby.
Speaker 1: I am, yes, very very excited. So to be honest,
Speaker 1: it actually happened a bit quicker than what we were expecting,
Speaker 1: so it's been a lot to digest. But yeah, couldn't
Speaker 1: be more excited And can't wait. I actually thought it
Speaker 1: was going to come along pretty quickly, but now that
Speaker 1: there's no sport happening, these next few months might go
Speaker 1: pretty slow. But yeah, can't wait.
Speaker 2: What did it mean to you after such a long
Speaker 2: professional career to become pregnant. I know you're still playing,
Speaker 2: but what did it mean?
Speaker 1: Obviously a massive shift in life, and I guess I
Speaker 1: was preparing for another season, which I also thought was
Speaker 1: going to be my last. This would have been my
Speaker 1: seventeenth season had I played, and I guess who knows
Speaker 1: at the moment whether or not I may potentially get
Speaker 1: to get to play some of twenty twenty, pending what
Speaker 1: happens with the netball season. But obviously as well, I
Speaker 1: know sometimes we hate it as athletes, but your identity
Speaker 1: is whether we like it or not, so attached to
Speaker 1: that part of our life and playing sporting and being
Speaker 1: a professional athlete, and I guess not having that as well,
Speaker 1: there's certainly been moments, and I think since announcing it
Speaker 1: as well, and despite still being around the club but
Speaker 1: not training and doing those sorts of things, feeling really lost.
Speaker 1: But obviously as well, there's no probably better reason to
Speaker 1: stop playing, and particularly because I had to go through
Speaker 1: fertility treatment to be able to fall pregnant. Obviously knew
Speaker 1: that it was a high chance that I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: played this season, but still when that reality hits and
Speaker 1: you sort of go, oh, geez, I'm actually not going
Speaker 1: to be playing anymore, and what does that mean and
Speaker 1: the future after as well, Yeah, I guess you do.
Speaker 1: You feel a sense of loss that part of your
Speaker 1: life that you've had for so long not being there,
Speaker 1: And I do I've rocked up. There's been so many
Speaker 1: times in the past where I've up this season since
Speaker 1: announcing it, and I don't know where to go. I'm like,
Speaker 1: because I'm not a coach, I'm not a player, and
Speaker 1: you sort of just literally sit in limbo. And I
Speaker 1: said to someone, it's kind of amazing you spend so
Speaker 1: long in the game. And it was also as well
Speaker 1: from how quickly it changed. You know, a month or
Speaker 1: so prior I was playing and training and I was
Speaker 1: a team member, and then now you sort of know
Speaker 1: where and you become obsolete and somewhat irrelevant really really quickly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's been a lot to digest, but it is being
Speaker 1: a mum and obviously been able to have Samuel there
Speaker 1: next to me to go through it all. He's been amazing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I can't wait.
Speaker 2: It's a common theme in this podcast. I know a
Speaker 2: lot of people with their jobs, they feel like they're
Speaker 2: defined by their jobs or that a lot of it
Speaker 2: is wrapped up at it. But particularly in sport, I
Speaker 2: think because it's such a public job and you put
Speaker 2: so much passion and hard into it, has that been
Speaker 2: a consistent thing for you in worrying about how much
Speaker 2: of you is wrapped up in what you do for
Speaker 2: a living.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, And I think as well because I guess
Speaker 1: heading into this season twenty twenty, I always thought it
Speaker 1: would have probably been my last year as well, and
Speaker 1: I guess I was always trying to put things in
Speaker 1: place for life after, and now there are so many
Speaker 1: unknowns because I haven't had I guess that phase of transition.
Speaker 1: I haven't transitioned into a job. I'm still contracted, but
Speaker 1: I'm not really doing anything. And so do you realize
Speaker 1: how much of what you've been doing and who you
Speaker 1: are is ingrained in you know, that day to day
Speaker 1: life as an athlete, and you know, I always you
Speaker 1: feel like you've got so much more than that, and
Speaker 1: that there's a lot more to you. But it's really
Speaker 1: then hard to sit back and go But what is that?
Speaker 1: That's sort of the question. You go, Well, what's next?
Speaker 1: I don't know them, particularly in the current climate with
Speaker 1: when you do have people losing their jobs and probably
Speaker 1: not the greatest place to be looking for a job.
Speaker 1: In my situation as well, I have no idea what's
Speaker 1: next after netball, which is obviously quite daunting and quite scary,
Speaker 1: and I guess, yeah, you just sort of have to
Speaker 1: sit back in some way, ride the wave of whatever
Speaker 1: it is, and be prepared for what may or may
Speaker 1: not come next. But yet you certainly do realize how
Speaker 1: much who you are as a person, and I guess
Speaker 1: as well, probably how other people see you is so
Speaker 1: much about sport and what you do as an athlete.
Speaker 2: Let's rewind, shall we. You've had some struggles across the
Speaker 2: course of your career with your mental health and challenging
Speaker 2: times at the top level of an elite sport for
Speaker 2: so many years. How did you get through those times?
Speaker 1: I guess probably the first thing. I struggled with mental
Speaker 1: health for probably a few years before I actually I
Speaker 1: guess I know people say it's a breakdown, breakthrough, whichever
Speaker 1: way you want to look at it. Before I sort
Speaker 1: of had that moment of being able to speak to someone,
Speaker 1: and that for me was obviously a huge time in
Speaker 1: my life in terms of being able to start dealing
Speaker 1: with things that I had been struggling with for so
Speaker 1: long and something that a lot of people, probably pretty
Speaker 1: much everyone had no idea at the time that I
Speaker 1: was struggling with, and it's made me realize how important
Speaker 1: having a support network around you is and and being
Speaker 1: able to be okay being vulnerable. I think the biggest
Speaker 1: thing is as athletes were always sort of told you
Speaker 1: have to leave your shit at the door, and you
Speaker 1: get on with business and you put on this face
Speaker 1: and you always have this team approach first, and you know,
Speaker 1: nothing ever bothers you, and we're always so resilient and
Speaker 1: that sort of thing. But it's actually okay to not
Speaker 1: be okay because whether we like it or not, we're
Speaker 1: the same as every other person out there. We have struggles,
Speaker 1: we handle things differently. You get upset, you get angry,
Speaker 1: you're happy, and it's actually okay to show those emotions.
Speaker 1: And I think that's certainly something that I've learned over
Speaker 1: my time to be okay with things and to also
Speaker 1: find out what I've needed as an individual in order
Speaker 1: to be able to cope. But yeah, having the right
Speaker 1: people around you and people who you can trust and
Speaker 1: go to and talk has been a huge thing I've learned.
Speaker 2: When did you first realize or when did you first
Speaker 2: start feeling like something wasn't quite right within yourself?
Speaker 1: I think probably the first time that I actually really
Speaker 1: noticed it was around sort of ended to twelve, twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: and it had though I'd been struggling with things for
Speaker 1: about two years prior to that. It all started when
Speaker 1: I had left the Adelaide Thunderbirds. On the back of
Speaker 1: leaving that and the things that had happened there, and
Speaker 1: so just.
Speaker 2: The departure from the club is what the.
Speaker 1: Departure from the club, and it probably it stemmed from
Speaker 1: things that happened during the year with the coach of
Speaker 1: the Thunderbirds at the time and things that happened, and
Speaker 1: I guess how my life was made to be quite miserable,
Speaker 1: and it was a really horrible time in the way
Speaker 1: in which that I was guests, forced to leave the
Speaker 1: club and then moved across to Queensland, and I just
Speaker 1: didn't handle things very well. I struggled a lot, obviously
Speaker 1: with my own self worth, who I was, who I
Speaker 1: didn't didn't trust. I felt incredibly vulnerable at that time
Speaker 1: as well the relationship I was in my ex husband.
Speaker 1: He stayed in Adelaide and I moved up to Queensland
Speaker 1: on my own, and whilst that was a decision that
Speaker 1: we had made, it was also incredibly lonely and isolating
Speaker 1: and I probably struggled then with a lot of things
Speaker 1: over a couple of years, but as I said, it
Speaker 1: probably took me about three years before I actually then
Speaker 1: had a moment where I realized how bad I was
Speaker 1: and that I actually did need help for me. It
Speaker 1: got to the point as well, which a lot of
Speaker 1: people have no idea. I don't even think my family know.
Speaker 1: But during that time as well, particularly towards the back
Speaker 1: end before I spoke to someone, I was also having
Speaker 1: thoughts where I thought it was a lot better if
Speaker 1: I wasn't here, and not that I acted on anything,
Speaker 1: but that was obviously pretty scared. I didn't think highly
Speaker 1: of myself at all, probably didn't have a lot of
Speaker 1: nice things to say or to think. And it was
Speaker 1: in the diamonds environment. We just got a wellbeing manager
Speaker 1: in Angie Bain. He'd come into the environment and I
Speaker 1: remember it was I think my first catch up with
Speaker 1: her where I just completely broke down and just everything
Speaker 1: just spilled out in terms of how I was feeling,
Speaker 1: what was going on, and that I said, yeah, that
Speaker 1: I needed help because I didn't want to keep feeling
Speaker 1: the way that I was.
Speaker 2: That's a big thing to think about yourself how did
Speaker 2: it get to that point? Do you think?
Speaker 1: I actually don't know. It was probably compounded a lot
Speaker 1: of just holding it all in and not talking about it,
Speaker 1: and it was sometimes magnified by things that people would say.
Speaker 1: And I know during that time, and I completely put
Speaker 1: my hand up, and obviously for me, it was probably
Speaker 1: a way I dealt with it. I would push people away.
Speaker 1: Obviously people didn't know what was going on, so their
Speaker 1: opinion of me probably wasn't that great at times. And
Speaker 1: I just yeah, that I had never thought really anything
Speaker 1: great about myself. And it's amazing the internal dialogue, what
Speaker 1: you can actually think of yourself. It's quite scary. And yeah,
Speaker 1: it just as I said, it just got to that
Speaker 1: point where I just thought that it was that much.
Speaker 1: It would have been better if I wasn't around and
Speaker 1: people wouldn't have really cared my relationship. Sometimes some of
Speaker 1: the things that were said on his behalf compounded that
Speaker 1: as well, those thoughts that I think just almost reinstated
Speaker 1: to me that what I believed was actually true, because
Speaker 1: you know, someone else might say something and yeah, then
Speaker 1: just I think really put me in a quite a
Speaker 1: vulnerable position.
Speaker 2: How do you feel now when you think back to
Speaker 2: that and how you felt.
Speaker 1: I remember I got to the point where I didn't
Speaker 1: recognize myself at all during that time. I'd become a
Speaker 1: very very different person, and I obviously don't like it.
Speaker 1: And as I said, I know that I probably damage
Speaker 1: relationships as a part of that, and that included with
Speaker 1: my own family and friends and teammates and that sort
Speaker 1: of thing as well. But I think the sad thing
Speaker 1: is to think that it took so long, and I
Speaker 1: know I'm one of gosh knows how many people in
Speaker 1: the world that deal with this that you hold on
Speaker 1: to it for so long before you actually start talking
Speaker 1: to someone, or some people don't ever do that, And
Speaker 1: it made me, I think, have a lot of empathy
Speaker 1: for people. It certainly changed my perception of how quickly
Speaker 1: we can judge people when we have that absolutely no
Speaker 1: idea what's going on in their lives or what they're
Speaker 1: dealing with. And it didn't It also made me not
Speaker 1: want other athletes to have to go through the same thing.
Speaker 1: So I've certainly had a lot more interesting around well
Speaker 1: being because yeah, for me, I just I sit back
Speaker 1: and you go, it's crap that you've got people like that.
Speaker 1: That are struggling with these sorts of things, and you're
Speaker 1: in an environment day in day out, around the same
Speaker 1: people and they have no idea what's going on or
Speaker 1: how vulnerable someone is or or what they're dealing with.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I think it's actually it probably scares me
Speaker 1: more than anything.
Speaker 2: Because at this point in time, you're playing for Australia,
Speaker 2: you're playing like you are at the top, you know,
Speaker 2: level of never in this country and in the world
Speaker 2: as well. Did you teammates have any idea?
Speaker 1: No, they had no idea. I remember a few years
Speaker 1: after i'd started seeing someone, and it was in the
Speaker 1: back of my Diamond's career, and I was actually talking
Speaker 1: to one of the girls who i'd played with at
Speaker 1: the Firebirds and which is when I was probably in
Speaker 1: the peak of my problems, and was telling her around
Speaker 1: what was going on or what had happened and where
Speaker 1: I was at. And she actually got quite emotional when
Speaker 1: I told her about it, and she said she had
Speaker 1: absolutely no idea and probably yeah, and she said we
Speaker 1: just thought that, you know, you went the nicest of people,
Speaker 1: and which I completely get. And I remember as well,
Speaker 1: when I was at the AIS and at this particular camp,
Speaker 1: and I'd met Angie and I told her that I
Speaker 1: needed help, and I think it may have actually been
Speaker 1: a selection camp as well. And we then went to
Speaker 1: sit down with Lisa Alexander, the head coach of the
Speaker 1: Diamonds at the time, and to tell her what was
Speaker 1: going on, and her first comments were, well, do you
Speaker 1: think that you should be playing? Do you think you
Speaker 1: should be coming on this tour? And that scared me,
Speaker 1: and I remember straight away I almost went into panic
Speaker 1: mode around that, because it was the one thing I
Speaker 1: knew how to do and to think. I think that's
Speaker 1: why a lot of people, particularly athletes, don't speak out,
Speaker 1: because you think that you know, others will think you
Speaker 1: can't perform and that you shouldn't be doing this, and
Speaker 1: that you're, I guess somewhat a liability to the team
Speaker 1: and the other players within it and coaches and that
Speaker 1: sort of thing. And I just remember saying to her that, actually, no,
Speaker 1: this is where I want to be, and this is
Speaker 1: where playing was actually the place where I could switch
Speaker 1: everything off, and despite there being you know, tens of
Speaker 1: thousands of people watching, I almost felt like I was
Speaker 1: somewhat alone. As weird as that might sound and I
Speaker 1: could just get on with business and not be thinking
Speaker 1: about all the other stuff. And it was really good
Speaker 1: as well to have the support of Angie and saying, no,
Speaker 1: she can still perform and you know she's good and
Speaker 1: we're putting things in place. So having that support from
Speaker 1: her as well was very crucial.
Speaker 2: So during this time, you're obviously having really negative thoughts physically, though,
Speaker 2: you were trying to take back control in I guess
Speaker 2: unhealthy ways. Is that fair to say?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely, I think because I couldn't, I guess, control
Speaker 1: a lot of the other things that were going on
Speaker 1: or people, or I felt like I had absolutely no
Speaker 1: control over the thoughts in my head either that, I guess,
Speaker 1: food became the one thing that I could control. And
Speaker 1: I certainly got very very lean during that time. I
Speaker 1: wouldn't have said that I was anorexic, but I probably
Speaker 1: wasn't far off it. Yeah, I certainly had a very
Speaker 1: disordered way of eating and controlling my food intake and
Speaker 1: the amount of exerc I was doing and those sorts
Speaker 1: of things. Yes, certainly I grabbed a hold of him. Yeah,
Speaker 1: pretty much. And I was certainly not healthy from that
Speaker 1: regard at all, which I think was very evident from everyone,
Speaker 1: and I know that there were comments about that at
Speaker 1: the time, and certainly being in that environment, it was,
Speaker 1: I guess, a way to help me cope. It gave
Speaker 1: me control over something, and it just happened to be. Yeah,
Speaker 1: food and exercise.
Speaker 2: How long did that last for?
Speaker 1: It probably would have lasted for maybe about two years.
Speaker 1: I'd say. I sort of look back now and I
Speaker 1: think of, you know, what I was consuming during a day,
Speaker 1: and the amount of training and that sort of thing.
Speaker 1: How I wasn't worse. I was incredibly lean. I remember hiding.
Speaker 1: I was never balamic, I was never throwing anything up,
Speaker 1: but it was very very controlled in what I was eating.
Speaker 1: And yeah, I just I sort of sit, Can you go,
Speaker 1: how on earth did I perform day in day out?
Speaker 1: I was a starting player. Twenty eleven was a World
Speaker 1: Cup year. I went through that, which in that whole
Speaker 1: year was really intense. And yeah, I think, looking back now,
Speaker 1: you just it's I could never have performed under those conditions.
Speaker 1: I think it just it's scary to think what athletes
Speaker 1: can do, how hard they can push themselves.
Speaker 2: You started to say you were hiding, were hiding food?
Speaker 2: Is that what you were going to say.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, sorry, I was. Yeah, I was hiding food,
Speaker 1: so in terms of exactly what I was eating, so.
Speaker 2: Instead of consuming it, you would hide it so other
Speaker 2: people didn't know that you didn't consume it. Is that
Speaker 2: what you sort of yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, Or I'd tell people that I had eaten. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and what i'd serve up, say at home to my
Speaker 1: partner and compared to what I would eat and in
Speaker 1: like a deep bowl or something that he so he
Speaker 1: didn't know exactly what was in there. Yeah, it was
Speaker 1: pretty messed up.
Speaker 2: Do you know how much food you were having a day?
Speaker 1: Oh gosh, not much. I don't know exactly what, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it certainly wasn't a lot. I was very I was
Speaker 1: very strict on on everything, like there would literally be
Speaker 1: like no carbs. Even though there was a period for
Speaker 1: a while a where I've been pescatarian. It's only been
Speaker 1: the last probably a year, which isn't a problem, which
Speaker 1: is probably only been the last year or two that
Speaker 1: I've actually started eating meat again. But yeah, I'd never
Speaker 1: wouldn't eat any meat raw food, So I was only
Speaker 1: just basically eating like fruit and salads all the time
Speaker 1: for my meals and that was basically it. How many
Speaker 1: not much of it?
Speaker 2: How many people knew that you were doing that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure people may have known, but it probably wasn't
Speaker 1: ever actually spoken about out and I guess it's all
Speaker 1: And to be honest, it's quite amazing how you can,
Speaker 1: if you're somewhat well, if you're performing okay, you can
Speaker 1: kind of get away with it. It's it's weird, and
Speaker 1: it was obviously I think maybe it's females as well.
Speaker 1: Obviously females in general, we probably you're quite body conscious
Speaker 1: and worried about our body image and those sorts of
Speaker 1: things at the best of times, let alone, then being
Speaker 1: in a sporting environment where you easily compare yourself to
Speaker 1: other players, you're getting the lovely skinfold tests, and at
Speaker 1: that point we were getting them quite frequently as well,
Speaker 1: every couple of weeks. You're you know, you're chasing numbers,
Speaker 1: you don't actually really understand what they all mean, and
Speaker 1: then you're throwing you know, some mental health issues as well.
Speaker 1: It's a pretty ugly combination, but it almost somewhat at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, I was performing, and performance
Speaker 1: still probably counts for more than anything else.
Speaker 2: And I guess that's within an organization, but also publicly,
Speaker 2: isn't it. That's one of the big misconceptions of sports.
Speaker 2: Stars have everything. You know, they've got this perfect life
Speaker 2: from the outside looking in. But it's not the case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not at all. And you know, I think,
Speaker 1: as I was saying before, that's the thing where it's
Speaker 1: hard as well, because we create an environment in sporting
Speaker 1: teams and clubs where it is and I've heard the phrase.
Speaker 1: I've heard it even during this year. It's like you
Speaker 1: leave your shit at the door, so you're not meant
Speaker 1: to talk about anything. You're not meant to rock up
Speaker 1: to training and be having a bad day, you know,
Speaker 1: Heaven forbid, because it'll impact someone else and people don't
Speaker 1: want to know about it. And whereas I'm like, well, god,
Speaker 1: it's actually it's okay to not be doing okay, and
Speaker 1: you need people to talk about and to talk to.
Speaker 1: And you know, I know, even in netball now, a
Speaker 1: big push from the players has been around the well
Speaker 1: being space because except for in the Diamonds environment, and
Speaker 1: I know Angie when her time there, which was only
Speaker 1: up until very recently, was over time because then players
Speaker 1: finally had someone to speak to in that environment, but
Speaker 1: it's still somewhat seen as a tick of a box,
Speaker 1: that sort of person, and there is there's so much
Speaker 1: stuff that players deal with. We're so highly critical of
Speaker 1: ourselves from a performance perspective, We're constantly chasing perfection. You're
Speaker 1: never ever happy. I think, as I've said to people,
Speaker 1: failure is inevitable, particularly as an athlete, because you're either
Speaker 1: not pleased yourself or someone else isn't pleased with you,
Speaker 1: even if that's the coach. And yeah, you need to
Speaker 1: be able to talk and be okay, to be vulnerable
Speaker 1: and understand that there's more to than just performance that
Speaker 1: is going on in people's lives.
Speaker 2: Do you know what weight you down to?
Speaker 3: Umm?
Speaker 1: I would have been. I think my loss was about
Speaker 1: fifty seven or fifty eight kilos.
Speaker 2: And my lowest And what's your playing weight for me?
Speaker 1: I'm to be honest, I'm probably still quite light compared
Speaker 1: to others. Um, but my normal playing weights probably about
Speaker 1: sixty five.
Speaker 2: It's a big difference. How do you feel about that
Speaker 2: number now?
Speaker 1: Oh, it's ridiculous. Um, yeah, I look back at it.
Speaker 1: At the time, I had no idea. I thought you'd
Speaker 1: look at the scale and every time it would sort
Speaker 1: of go down, you sort of dare I say it?
Speaker 1: Someone felt good about it? Um, And yeah, it does.
Speaker 1: It becomes almost a sense of achievement that that's where
Speaker 1: you're at. And as I said, you don't really understand
Speaker 1: what you're doing, and dare I say it my as
Speaker 1: well as just probably training And there's girls who have
Speaker 1: been f who face these issues anyway, but my fertility
Speaker 1: issues are probably also on the back of that as well,
Speaker 1: So you just don't realize the implications that it's having
Speaker 1: on you. And sadly there's been other athletes like that
Speaker 1: as well. But yeah, when I look back at it now,
Speaker 1: it was just, yeah, it was this is quite sad.
Speaker 2: When I hear talk about it, I just want to
Speaker 2: I want to give that girl a hug, Like I
Speaker 2: just want, you know, I want to just say it's
Speaker 2: like it's going to be okay. How do you feel
Speaker 2: when you do? You know what I mean? Like, if
Speaker 2: you could have a conversation with that girl, what are
Speaker 2: we talking like eight years ago? What would you say?
Speaker 1: Yeah? To be honest, I don't even know. I was
Speaker 1: literally like I was a broken person at that point.
Speaker 1: I would have told her to speak to someone a
Speaker 1: lot earlier, to look after herself, and yeah, to just
Speaker 1: not damage herself. And I think to give her reinforcement
Speaker 1: that she was good enough and she didn't need to
Speaker 1: be pleasing other people, or the things that had happened
Speaker 1: weren't gonna then define the person that she became or
Speaker 1: what people thought of her. Because, as I said, the
Speaker 1: stuff that what happened in Adelaide, it was was tough.
Speaker 1: It made me question a lot, It made me not
Speaker 1: trust people, push people away. Yeah, really, I think destroyed
Speaker 1: me as a person, obviously, And yeah, I did. I
Speaker 1: became as I got to the point where I didn't
Speaker 1: recognize myself anymore. I didn't know who who I'd become,
Speaker 1: and I'd alienated a lot of people, and yeah, it
Speaker 1: was well, obviously it wasn't a fun time. And even
Speaker 1: when I started saying help it, I was still somewhat
Speaker 1: quite ashamed of that to a degree, or felt like
Speaker 1: I needed to hide it. I was traveling down to
Speaker 1: the Gold Coast. I lived in Brisbane, and I was
Speaker 1: traveling down to the Gold Coast for you know, maybe
Speaker 1: a month, a couple of months every week to go
Speaker 1: see a psych down there who I'd been referred on to,
Speaker 1: and I never told anyone about it. The club didn't know,
Speaker 1: my ex husband didn't know, none of my family knew. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that was a two hour road trip just in
Speaker 1: the car, plus however long the session went for before
Speaker 1: I actually then told someone, and I was worried as
Speaker 1: well about the lot of the judgment that would come
Speaker 1: with that.
Speaker 2: You're listening to. Ordinarily, speaking with Natalie Medhurst the Sight sessions,
Speaker 2: I often talk about the fact that I feel like
Speaker 2: when you first start going it it's almost it's almost
Speaker 2: gets worse before it gets better. Was that was that
Speaker 2: what you experienced?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember leaving those sessions feeling absolutely drained. I
Speaker 1: remember that even in my first chat from Angie at
Speaker 1: AIS and talking to her, I was absolutely exhausted because
Speaker 1: I was just an emotional mess and it had been
Speaker 1: a build up of I know what two three years
Speaker 1: of everything and it is it's exhausting, and I remember
Speaker 1: just sort of trying to get home and like I
Speaker 1: almost had to take a bit of a breathe before
Speaker 1: I could get in the car and then drive the
Speaker 1: hour the hour back. So, yeah, it was you'd go,
Speaker 1: you'd have. You'd go through ebbs and flows, like some
Speaker 1: sessions you sort of sit there and you go, did
Speaker 1: I really get anything out of that? Was it really
Speaker 1: worth it? And but then you'd come back the next
Speaker 1: week and you'd discuss what had happened the week prior,
Speaker 1: and you'd just be an emotional an emotional wreck. And
Speaker 1: it was something as well. I remember probably the best
Speaker 1: advice from Angie had said was keep doing it even
Speaker 1: when you think that you're doing okay. I think that's
Speaker 1: the dangerous thing you fall into, is you think you're
Speaker 1: doing okay, so you can let it go. Where it was,
Speaker 1: it was that constant check in, even if it wasn't
Speaker 1: it wasn't every week that it was still every few
Speaker 1: weeks or once every month, just still going in. And
Speaker 1: after my time with the Psyching Brisbane or down on
Speaker 1: the Gold Coast and I then relocated to Perth, I
Speaker 1: was then put onto someone in Perth, and I don't
Speaker 1: think too many people at the club they knew that
Speaker 1: that was going on either. And then that was something
Speaker 1: that continued for a couple of years, my first couple
Speaker 1: of years in Perth as well.
Speaker 2: Did it take a long time to start recovering.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it did. It was. It was long process because
Speaker 1: it's hard to the things that you think of yourself
Speaker 1: for the brain. Yeah, and it's still it's very easy
Speaker 1: to slip back into those trains of thoughts or those patterns.
Speaker 1: And the biggest thing was probably trying to find the triggers,
Speaker 1: what it was that would cause that, and how to
Speaker 1: be able to control it. And that's something that you
Speaker 1: had to keep more, had to keep working at. And
Speaker 1: then you know, when you throw in a move as well,
Speaker 1: they say that's one of the biggest stresses that you
Speaker 1: can face, along with a few other things, and so
Speaker 1: you throw that in and so then it was dealing
Speaker 1: with that as well in different environment and then different
Speaker 1: people and different things that were happening as well. So yeah,
Speaker 1: it was, it was. It was a long process. I
Speaker 1: probably saw a psych in total for probably about three years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and it was different timing as well. It obviously started
Speaker 1: quite intense at the art but yeah, and then sort
Speaker 1: of sort of tape it off a bit, but it
Speaker 1: was yet quite consistent.
Speaker 2: What was it that led to the end of Adelaide?
Speaker 1: I was the coach when it came to contracting period.
Speaker 1: I was then told that I was in a priority
Speaker 1: player for the club. And I guess I never ever
Speaker 1: thought that I would leave Adelaide. That was my home,
Speaker 1: that's where my family was, that's where I grew up.
Speaker 1: I always, yeah, I thought that that's where i'd be
Speaker 1: and play. And it was really really tough because no
Speaker 1: one else knew what was None of the other players
Speaker 1: knew what was going on. I think if you spoke
Speaker 1: to my dad, he'd probably have some very choice words
Speaker 1: to say he knew a bit about what was going on.
Speaker 1: And yeah, and I think the other thing is, well,
Speaker 1: you have to deal with the a lot from spectators
Speaker 1: and supporters on the back of that. You know, you
Speaker 1: get called a lot of things, and it's like you
Speaker 1: actually have no idea what's going on. It's not my choice,
Speaker 1: or sometimes even if it is your choice, the reasons
Speaker 1: aren't what you think. It's no different to anyone else
Speaker 1: leaving a job, but particularly in this case, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was under circumstances, and yeah, I guess it's set off
Speaker 1: a yeah, a wave of all sorts of behaviors and
Speaker 1: thoughts that that, yeah, were quite damaging to me.
Speaker 2: You end up getting divorced as well. What was that
Speaker 2: as an experience to go through.
Speaker 1: This might sound probably not what you're expected, but someways good.
Speaker 1: It's quite interesting, because I mean everyone's situation is different.
Speaker 1: But I remember people saying, oh, I'm really sorry, and
Speaker 1: I'm like, no, that's a good thing, because it's the
Speaker 1: right thing. And for us, we've been together since we
Speaker 1: were seventeen, so we've been together for a long time,
Speaker 1: and we just completely changed across that time and people,
Speaker 1: and I think we'd just basically become mates, and like
Speaker 1: there'd obviously been a lot of times and things that
Speaker 1: we both did wrong across that time as well. Our
Speaker 1: divorce was incredibly amicable. We went through everything ourselves, so
Speaker 1: it was actually really in some ways quite nice and
Speaker 1: because it was the right thing. But it's not to
Speaker 1: say it wasn't easy. It was incredibly hard as well,
Speaker 1: because then this person that you'd had there for so
Speaker 1: long was no longer there. I remember when I first
Speaker 1: moved out and I was staying at a new house
Speaker 1: and at that point I was renting a townhouse and
Speaker 1: I didn't have any furniture or anything. I remember sitting
Speaker 1: on the steps of my place eating dinner because I
Speaker 1: had nowhere else to sit. So I was literally sitting
Speaker 1: in a stairwell on my own with my dinner and
Speaker 1: I had. I was lucky, I had a lot of
Speaker 1: good people around me. But it was also incredibly hard.
Speaker 1: It was the start of the season. I hadn't told
Speaker 1: my teammates for a while either until after round one
Speaker 1: around what was going on. And yeah, it was still
Speaker 1: a lot to cope with. I still certainly struggled at
Speaker 1: times through that as well. Just I guess finding this
Speaker 1: new identity who I was. Yeah, I guess what my
Speaker 1: life looked like like I was going. I was in
Speaker 1: my mid thirties, I was now divorced. Yeah, and as
Speaker 1: I said, you rock up to netball, you're not meant
Speaker 1: to have a bad day, So you just have to
Speaker 1: get on with business. And then by the end of
Speaker 1: the season, I was probably in a similar place, not
Speaker 1: as bad, but yeah, I was absolutely exhausted. I was
Speaker 1: struggling a lot. I needed to take some time off
Speaker 1: away from netball. I wasn't sleeping. I got put on
Speaker 1: some sleeping I mean not that I've ever slept, but
Speaker 1: I got put on some sleeping medication. The doctor put
Speaker 1: me on some antidepressants, which as well, was the first
Speaker 1: time I'd ever been on anything like that, even back
Speaker 1: in when I was back in Brisbane. Yeah, just sort
Speaker 1: of to help with everything that I was coping with
Speaker 1: and what was going on.
Speaker 2: Was there a moment when you knew you were through
Speaker 2: the other the other side? Is there a moment that
Speaker 2: you can remember where you're like, I've done it, or
Speaker 2: you're proud of yourself.
Speaker 1: For you properly, to be honest, Probably only recently, I
Speaker 1: think that whole. If you know, the last sort of
Speaker 1: two years, there's been a lot that's happened, a lot
Speaker 1: that happened sort of pretty much one year or eighteen
Speaker 1: months I was I went through a divorce. I then
Speaker 1: got dumped by the Aussies Ossie team that same year,
Speaker 1: so my two constants that i'd had for the last
Speaker 1: ten years were now gone. What was that like, the
Speaker 1: dumping from the Aussies. Yeah, it wasn't fun. I didn't
Speaker 1: see it coming at all. I had no idea. I
Speaker 1: was called up on a Sunday morning driving and I
Speaker 1: was Lisa Alexander, the head coach, and I'm not too
Speaker 1: sure if she was reading off something, but it was
Speaker 1: pretty much sort of one whole sentence going, got some
Speaker 1: not good news. You've been dropped from the Diamond squad,
Speaker 1: which means you're ineligible for Commonwealth Games selection, and you
Speaker 1: might want to consider announcing your retirement from international netball.
Speaker 1: And I remember just going what was the start of
Speaker 1: all that? It was? It was actually quite surreal. It's
Speaker 1: like you're going to have those moments where it's a
Speaker 1: bit out of body and you're sort of looking down
Speaker 1: going is this actually happening? Is this conversation real? Um?
Speaker 1: And then yeah, it was really it was really quite
Speaker 1: hard dealing with all that because I said, I just
Speaker 1: did not see that coming at all. And obviously to
Speaker 1: get a phone call to say, well, your international career
Speaker 1: of ten years is now basically done and dusted, and
Speaker 1: to be sitting in a car to get that information
Speaker 1: was was pretty hard and quite brutal. M Yeah, and
Speaker 1: I just I just could not believe it.
Speaker 2: To be honest, who was the first person you called?
Speaker 1: Believe it or not? The first person I called was
Speaker 1: my ex and I actually wasn't far from where he
Speaker 1: was and just sent him a message going this. I
Speaker 1: actually sent him a message to say that this is
Speaker 1: what's happening. I remember messaging my family and asking them
Speaker 1: not to call me, though, and I'd call them because
Speaker 1: I also felt this is I can't believe that this
Speaker 1: is the thought, but I did. I felt like I'd
Speaker 1: let them down, and I didn't want to face having
Speaker 1: to talk to them and answer the answer questions that
Speaker 1: I didn't really have answers to. And yeah, that was
Speaker 1: a big one. That was why I said I don't,
Speaker 1: I don't want you to call me, because yeah, I
Speaker 1: just didn't want to have to feel face them in
Speaker 1: any way, shape or form, whether it was face to
Speaker 1: face over the phone. Yeah, because I'd felt like i'd
Speaker 1: somewhat disappointed them.
Speaker 2: It's such a I'm nodding. A lot of people can't
Speaker 2: see it because it's a podcast, but I'm nodding along
Speaker 2: because it's such a common theme that once again the
Speaker 2: athletes feel that way that they've let you know, whether
Speaker 2: it's the country down or their family down, or you know,
Speaker 2: there's so much more that goes into these moments. How
Speaker 2: did you get your head around what had just happened?
Speaker 1: Actually, I it took me a while. As I said,
Speaker 1: I didn't see it coming. So I got a phone
Speaker 1: call that was on a Sunday, and it was the
Speaker 1: Monday week, so for eight days later that we were
Speaker 1: actually scheduled to be getting a phone call based to
Speaker 1: inform myself our selection. So it was almost somewhat like
Speaker 1: of a complete blindside. Yeah, I just I just had
Speaker 1: absolutely no idea. I didn't know who really, I didn't
Speaker 1: really know who to talk to, what to say because
Speaker 1: players weren't being informed for another seven eight days. I
Speaker 1: was somewhat then forced to keep it secret because it
Speaker 1: was God Heaven's forbid it should get leaked.
Speaker 2: It's isolating feeling that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really really tough, and I remember so
Speaker 1: that phone call was then on the Sunday. The Netble
Speaker 1: Australia Awards dinner was on the Saturday in Melbourne, which
Speaker 1: I flew over to, and I was of the impression
Speaker 1: that no one knew I'd been told I had to
Speaker 1: keep it quiet, and so I've rocked up, going okay,
Speaker 1: I've got to put on a good face and mingle
Speaker 1: with the players. And then as the night unfolded, and
Speaker 1: particularly as it got laid through the night, there were
Speaker 1: some things that people, some of the players said and
Speaker 1: it just sort of tweaked something and I was like,
Speaker 1: do you know? And so the players, some of the
Speaker 1: players had actually been informed, but I didn't know that
Speaker 1: they knew. So I then felt like I was making
Speaker 1: a bit of a fool of myself trying to do
Speaker 1: that in front of my peers, trying to do the
Speaker 1: right thing, yet they'd been made aware of it, and
Speaker 1: then that was really hard to then go okay, because
Speaker 1: they are I don't know what they were thinking as well,
Speaker 1: and it probably put them in an awkward position as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was a lot to sort of, I guess,
Speaker 1: particularly that week or so, to really then kind of
Speaker 1: deal with. And I felt, I guess it had just
Speaker 1: been not well handled and a bit unfair to me
Speaker 1: to put me then in that position, as I said,
Speaker 1: with some of the girls, who I would have probably
Speaker 1: liked to have then told myself, had I been given
Speaker 1: the opportunity because of my relationship and friendship with them,
Speaker 1: But in fact they had already known, and they felt
Speaker 1: as well. They had known for a few days. And
Speaker 1: I remember talking to one of the girls and they said,
Speaker 1: we didn't know whether or not we could call you
Speaker 1: because we were told you didn't want to speak to anyone.
Speaker 1: I said, I didn't know that you girls knew otherwise, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would have actually loved to have spoken to you,
Speaker 1: and so yeah, I put both of us, Yeah, in
Speaker 1: a pretty pretty ordinary position.
Speaker 2: When you reflect on your it's still going obviously, but
Speaker 2: when you reflect on your career and your international career
Speaker 2: and the departures and all those sorts of things, how
Speaker 2: do you feel about it all? And can you separate
Speaker 2: the love of the game from what has happened?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can. I think I took a lot out
Speaker 1: of leaving, of what happened in Adelaide, and even on
Speaker 1: the back of leaving Perth, and even when I left Queensland,
Speaker 1: I loved playing in Brisbane, and even though that was
Speaker 1: when I was struggling through everything, I really really loved
Speaker 1: my netball there and the coach Rose Jenkie was phenomenal.
Speaker 1: And even though I wasn't expecting to leave Perth, I
Speaker 1: learned from Adelaide about trying to do everything to leave
Speaker 1: on the best terms, because it helps you move on
Speaker 1: and get on with the next phase, whatever it is
Speaker 1: that it looks like. So I've all ways, I think
Speaker 1: tried to leave relationships in the best way that I
Speaker 1: that I can. At least from my end.
Speaker 2: I guess once a decision is made, the only thing
Speaker 2: you can control is.
Speaker 1: Your reaction to it. Yeah, and sometimes you do. You
Speaker 1: have to. It hurts, Don't get me wrong, it does.
Speaker 1: And I think they in those I would hope that
Speaker 1: sometimes other parties would look at how they handled things
Speaker 1: and maybe you want to do things differently.
Speaker 2: But have you had any of those reconcilia making up
Speaker 2: words now and have you had any of those conversations
Speaker 2: where you sought a bit of reconciliation with people?
Speaker 1: Yeah? When I particularly when I left, when I left Perth,
Speaker 1: I made sure that I had conversations with people and
Speaker 1: catch ups. And I still continue to check in every
Speaker 1: now and again with you know, Stacy Marinkovic, she is
Speaker 1: now the head coach of West Coast Fever. I sat
Speaker 1: down and had a really good conversation with her before
Speaker 1: I left. I've still checked in with her during the
Speaker 1: season when she had her baby. You know, say congratulations.
Speaker 1: And there's no real resentment that I have from everyone.
Speaker 1: You know, I understand that it is a business, and
Speaker 1: as I said, I would hope though they would do
Speaker 1: things maybe a little bit differently if it was another
Speaker 1: athlete in the future, and I guess I've only got
Speaker 1: control over what I do now, and I'm incredibly lucky
Speaker 1: to have Samuel in my life. And I think that's
Speaker 1: sort of back to your other question around you know
Speaker 1: how I feel now. It's been probably the last sort
Speaker 1: of twelve eighteen months where I feel really happy and
Speaker 1: content with everything and feel like I have made it through.
Speaker 1: And he's been a massive, massive part of that. He
Speaker 1: gets it, he understands what it's like, and he's been
Speaker 1: really good for me in terms of that support and
Speaker 1: that advice that he's given and has been absolute rock
Speaker 1: through through everything. And as I said, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, I can control what I can. It's
Speaker 1: easy to read in a lot of I guess I
Speaker 1: say the noise from other people who don't really understand
Speaker 1: what's going on. But I guess as long as I'm happy,
Speaker 1: I'm keeping true to my values and who I am,
Speaker 1: then I guess that's all that I can really do
Speaker 1: and continue to strive to achieve.
Speaker 2: And you talk about Samuel, of course, that's Sam Butler
Speaker 2: who used to play for the West Coast Eagles. So
Speaker 2: when you say he gets it, he really does get
Speaker 2: what it's like to be a professional athlete under pressure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he does. And he's been through you know, his
Speaker 1: stuff as well. He I think he was probably the
Speaker 1: most injured player ever in AFL. I think he said
Speaker 1: it's he was the seventh longest to reach one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty games and that was because everyone before him
Speaker 1: went to war or he's got some horrible stat like
Speaker 1: that against his name. And yeah, and he's obviously had
Speaker 1: a lot of things in his personal life as well
Speaker 1: that he's gone through, but he does. He gets all
Speaker 1: of it quite switched on for a footy player, God
Speaker 1: bless him. It's quite intelligent. But yeah, he's he's just
Speaker 1: I think been amazing. I actually couldn't have asked for
Speaker 1: a better person to be going through everything with. And yeah,
Speaker 1: as I said, he does, he really does gets it.
Speaker 1: But he'll also have his opinion and it's pretty well
Speaker 1: thought through. If I need to some feedback that he gives, oh,
Speaker 1: just in terms of sometimes if I am thinking things
Speaker 1: or how a different way or approach of going about
Speaker 1: it that I maybe haven't thought of. He'll never give
Speaker 1: me advice on netble, which has been which has been great.
Speaker 1: He's proud of me no matter how I perform, and
Speaker 1: I think probably he understands what it's like. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: even have the people close to you who I said,
Speaker 1: you feel like you let them down or they give
Speaker 1: you that sort of impression, or they'll have an opinion
Speaker 1: about what you should have done, what you shouldn't have done.
Speaker 1: And I never ever get that from him. And it's
Speaker 1: nice to sort of come home and not have to
Speaker 1: talk about sport or what's going on. He has no
Speaker 1: idea what's going on in footy, so he has less
Speaker 1: of an idea in Nepal, and yeah, it's actually really nice.
Speaker 2: Do you feel content when you reflect on your career?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I really do. I've as said, there's things that
Speaker 1: I certainly look back and think I could have handled
Speaker 1: a lot better, and I hope that I've probably if
Speaker 1: I've been in a similar situation, tried to deal with
Speaker 1: it differently. But I've had a phenomenal career. It's something
Speaker 1: I never ever dreamed of. Playing netball for my country
Speaker 1: wasn't something as a young kid that I dreamt of
Speaker 1: because I never thought it was something you could do
Speaker 1: because we weren't exposed to it. My dream was to
Speaker 1: play basketball, go to America and meet Michael Jordan and
Speaker 1: I was going to be happy. That was going to
Speaker 1: be that was my dream. Too happened, and yeah, so
Speaker 1: I guess I'm living a dream that I never actually
Speaker 1: realized or was something that I was chasing. And you
Speaker 1: realize as well when you're in it, how bloody hearted
Speaker 1: is to do and to do it not just one year,
Speaker 1: but year after year. And you need a bit of
Speaker 1: luck as well. You know, you need the right people
Speaker 1: to think that you're okay, you need to not get injured.
Speaker 1: But I think I've obviously done everything possible to put
Speaker 1: myself in the best position to keep performing. But yeah,
Speaker 1: I've obviously built up a fair bit of resilience across
Speaker 1: that time. And it's been a ride, But yeah, I am.
Speaker 1: I'm very content. And that's why I think if Nebel
Speaker 1: was to finish and this was the last that I'd played, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'd be certainly very happy with what I've achieved and
Speaker 1: how I leave the game.
Speaker 2: How do you think your family and your teammates are
Speaker 2: going to feel when they listen to this.
Speaker 1: Probably shocked, I think a lot of them, probably most
Speaker 1: of them. I know Mum would be thinking she could
Speaker 1: have fixed everything, and because she always particularly because she's
Speaker 1: a nurse, and that she'd probably just want to give
Speaker 1: me a big hug. I know that in particular. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it would surprise a lot of people, and
Speaker 1: I think particularly people I said who I was playing
Speaker 1: within that time at Firebirds, when I was really really
Speaker 1: struggling and to exactly the point of where I was at, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't think they'd probably realize how bad things were.
Speaker 2: Are you proud of yourself?
Speaker 3: Uh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I actually am. Surprisingly. I think you also
Speaker 1: learn as you get older, and particularly when life changes
Speaker 1: in your perspective on things change, to sort of cut
Speaker 1: yourself a little bit of slack because well, yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: we're not perfect, and we do mess up, and we
Speaker 1: do make mistakes, and we sometimes say things or do
Speaker 1: things that weren't the best. But yeah, yeah, I am
Speaker 1: proud of myself. I think, you know, I'm obviously proud
Speaker 1: of actually being able to speak up and do something
Speaker 1: to try and help myself. And I think as well,
Speaker 1: and hopefully it will continue. Is then it's given me
Speaker 1: a voice for others who possibly they might not be
Speaker 1: in that position yet, but it may be a spot
Speaker 1: that they will be one day or they players who
Speaker 1: don't all athletes who don't feel comfortable in being able
Speaker 1: to speak up about stuff that I can, I guess
Speaker 1: do that for them, because, as I said, when you
Speaker 1: have these sorts of experiences, you have a lot of
Speaker 1: empathy for people. And I think as well, that's something
Speaker 1: that I've been able to really I guess develop and
Speaker 1: have now for other people around me.
Speaker 2: I'm really appreciative of the fact that you've done this
Speaker 2: and been so open. Congratulations on an epic career because
Speaker 2: it has been I know it's not quite over yet,
Speaker 2: but it has been amazing. And I'm thirty four and
Speaker 2: to think of still being an elite athlete a couple
Speaker 2: of years, you know, I just yeah, I'm crazy, so dumb.
Speaker 2: It just all hats off to you, basically, but yeah,
Speaker 2: thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 1: No, thank you so time.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode of Ordinarily Speaking. If
Speaker 2: you enjoyed this chat, make sure you hit subscribe and
Speaker 2: tell your mates. If you want to get in touch,
Speaker 2: follow at ordinarily underscore Speaking on Instagram.
Speaker 3: Thanks again, Silence in the sound.
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Speaker 3: Let me that you want to bid.
Speaker 1: Because I'm competrating the fire with food. Send me that
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