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Speaker 1: We know that Darwin's office vacancy rate fell by two

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Speaker 1: point one percent over the last six months. It's apparently

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Speaker 1: been driven by high demand for premium working spaces. Now,

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Speaker 1: according to the latest office market report by the Property

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Speaker 1: Council of Australia, Darwin's CBD vacancy rate dropped to seventeen

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Speaker 1: point six percent in the six months to January, driven

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Speaker 1: by high levels of demand.

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Speaker 2: And we'll find.

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Speaker 1: Out a little bit more about what this all means

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Speaker 1: because joining us in the studio right now the Property

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Speaker 1: Council of Australia's Northern Territory branch.

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Speaker 2: Well joining us is Ruth Palmer. Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Ruth. On the face of it, these figures look like

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Speaker 1: they're a really positive thing and seem to be bucking

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Speaker 1: the trend of what's happening in other states. What's you know,

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Speaker 1: Why are we in such a good situation at this point?

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie.

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Speaker 4: Well, one of the major things that we need to

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Speaker 4: look at is our government tendancy takes up around eighty

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Speaker 4: percent of the CBD office market. So what we saw

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Speaker 4: through COVID and what we're still seeing now is that

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Speaker 4: the government workers are still in the buildings, so they

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Speaker 4: haven't had to leave the buildings with national.

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Speaker 3: Objective to actually have to work from home.

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Speaker 4: Or close up there there are office spaces, so we

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Speaker 4: are seeing that we still have that activity around the

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Speaker 4: CBD and those offices remaining open and there is that

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Speaker 4: demand for you know, the sort of better quality spaces,

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Speaker 4: if I can say. But what that does do is

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Speaker 4: it leaves our sort of lesser grade stocks, which is

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Speaker 4: you B and C grade still at around that fifty

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Speaker 4: two percent vacant, which is an issue we've held historically

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Speaker 4: for a very long time.

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Speaker 3: But if you can we still as much as we've.

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Speaker 4: Come down in those rates, we are still the highest

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Speaker 4: in the nation for our vacancy. So whilst we have

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Speaker 4: dropped that bit, we still need to be aware that

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Speaker 4: we are still holding that title well.

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Speaker 1: And it makes sense that when you say that, you

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Speaker 1: know the majority of that office space eighty percent then

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Speaker 1: taken up by government department. You go, okay, well, now

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Speaker 1: that makes sense because in other states and territory she

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Speaker 1: would see a lot of those those spaces within the

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Speaker 1: CBDs taken up by various different companies. For us here

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Speaker 1: in the territory, it is literally the government and they've

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Speaker 1: had to stay at.

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Speaker 2: Work, that's right.

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Speaker 4: And you know we've seen men under place really kicking

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Speaker 4: off as well.

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Speaker 3: You know, those floor spaces that they.

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Speaker 4: Originally had vacant have now been filled and that's where

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Speaker 4: you'll see that change in that a grade space around

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Speaker 4: that extra absorption of space.

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Speaker 2: What's it mean though?

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Speaker 1: Then for those other buildings that aren't sort of at

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Speaker 1: that premium level that aren't a grade space, you know,

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Speaker 1: what's it mean for them if they're struggling to fill

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Speaker 1: their space.

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Speaker 4: So this is the issue that we have had for

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Speaker 4: quite some time now. So this is a problem with

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Speaker 4: a lack of demand. So you know, this is around

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Speaker 4: encouraging people to want to come into the CBD, but

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Speaker 4: also for people wanting to come in and invest in

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Speaker 4: the Northern territory. It's very hard when we have seen

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Speaker 4: in the past and exodus of workers going out to

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Speaker 4: other areas around the top end. So that does obviously

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Speaker 4: leave a hole within those buildings that cannot be filled

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Speaker 4: because we don't have the sort of large corporate entities

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Speaker 4: you do see in the other states, like your superannuation funds,

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Speaker 4: the larger corporations like Charter Hall or Price water House Coopers.

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Speaker 4: They sort of take up entire office buildings. We just

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Speaker 4: don't have that demand here and we don't foresee that

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Speaker 4: sort of demand coming on anytime soon.

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Speaker 1: And so I guess the only way that you're going

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Speaker 1: to see that kind of demand come on anytime soon

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Speaker 1: is if you end up with more industry here in

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory. Which really brings us to the next

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Speaker 1: part of the conversation, and that is the fact that

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Speaker 1: the Property Council has released the renewed population.

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Speaker 2: Plan this week.

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Speaker 1: Can you talk us through exactly what's in that and

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Speaker 1: you know what you've found?

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Speaker 2: I suppose, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Thanks Katie.

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Speaker 4: So this is a report that we had been working

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Speaker 4: on for about eight months purely because the population planned

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Speaker 4: before was outdated. It was done in twenty eighteen, and

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Speaker 4: it was something we'd been sort of really strongly advocating for,

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Speaker 4: but we found that incentives were ineffective here in the

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Speaker 4: territory around the.

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Speaker 3: Battle as possible, the relocation.

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Speaker 1: Anyone really moved here through boundless possible No, So there was.

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Speaker 4: A couple of applications, but you know that's sort of

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Speaker 4: fifteen thousand dollars relocation incentive. The money that was spent

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Speaker 4: around that just just kind of didn't hit the mark

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Speaker 4: as what it was expected, because we've really got to

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Speaker 4: look at what's drawing people here.

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Speaker 3: It's got to be the lifestyle.

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Speaker 4: There has to be the job opportunities, and it's really

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Speaker 4: got to be housing affordability and looking at crime and

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Speaker 4: any social behavior as well.

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Speaker 3: So there was a whole big range of things.

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Speaker 4: That we decided to target in our commissioned report and

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Speaker 4: from that, you know, we sort of have now presented

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Speaker 4: a forty page report that we have briefed Government on

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Speaker 4: with a whole range of recommendations and initiatives to be

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Speaker 4: able to improve our population but also to have a

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Speaker 4: sustainable job growth as well through industry.

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Speaker 1: And so has there been much feedback then from the

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Speaker 1: government at this point in time after, you know, after

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Speaker 1: delivering that report.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we've had.

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Speaker 4: Some meetings with Investment and team and we've obviously been

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Speaker 4: in the Minister's ear as well around the report and

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Speaker 4: they absolutely support our recommendation. So one of the major

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Speaker 4: things that we did call for in that was resourcing

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Speaker 4: and support for migration and t and for that to

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Speaker 4: have some transparency and accountability to an actual minister so

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Speaker 4: migration and t can then build on that growth of

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Speaker 4: having people wanting to come to the territory, but how

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Speaker 4: we can support them when they do come to the

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Speaker 4: territory or getting them here, and that's also around that

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Speaker 4: chain migration.

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Speaker 1: And so when do you reckon we're going to see

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Speaker 1: some change in that space? You know, when you talk

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Speaker 1: about trying to get people to move here and they're

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Speaker 1: being a minister, you know that's responsible for it.

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Speaker 3: So hopefully there are some things already in the motion.

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Speaker 3: Having a chat to.

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Speaker 4: Some advisors but also some cees, you sort of hear

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Speaker 4: that there are things behind the scenes that are happening,

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Speaker 4: which is really encouraging. But I guess it's getting the

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Speaker 4: message out there that there is work underway. So the

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Speaker 4: public needs to see it. The community needs to see

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Speaker 4: and feel it. So when it sort of starts happening

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Speaker 4: is another guest. But I guess what we need to

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Speaker 4: see is that that the territory is open for business,

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Speaker 4: that you know, we sort of ease off on those

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Speaker 4: restrictions and we can get business here, we can get

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Speaker 4: investment here, and really provide some certainty for territorians that

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Speaker 4: the territory is in a position where we can support

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Speaker 4: ourselves economically.

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Speaker 1: Yea, and hopefully bounce back quickly as well, because I

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Speaker 1: think that you know, through that hardship, if you if

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Speaker 1: you're able to pivot, and if you're able to do

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Speaker 1: that quickly, hopefully it can provide us with opportunities that

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Speaker 1: we might not have had previously. That's right, And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, there was a time last year where we

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Speaker 1: did have a really huge shot or an opportunity where

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Speaker 1: sort of the rest of the country was closed. But

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Speaker 1: you know, you sort of listen to these reports and

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Speaker 1: the State of the States report that.

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Speaker 4: Is constantly showing us last. They're ranking us last. You've

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Speaker 4: got to put that together with our historical average of

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Speaker 4: vacancies around the office space. It really reiterates the need

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Speaker 4: to speed up those major projects, reduce the red tape,

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Speaker 4: and put greater responsibility on the Tursey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Well, I haven't had an update from the from the

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Speaker 1: URSAY at this point in time, so I might see

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Speaker 1: whether I can get one, because I think that it

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Speaker 1: is really important to find out exactly where they where

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Speaker 1: they're at with their would you know, there's been a

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Speaker 1: lot of talk in the early days about the things

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Speaker 1: that they were and weren't going to be doing so

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Speaker 1: I reckon it'd be good to get those more regular

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Speaker 1: updates from them.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, And another thing that we need to be really

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Speaker 4: supportive of and pushes our education space.

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Speaker 3: So we need to keep the city deals in motion.

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Speaker 4: We need to keep that booming because having the students

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Speaker 4: around the city is going to be one of the

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Speaker 4: major activation pinpoints to be able to fill those empty

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Speaker 4: office spaces, whether it be by student accommodation, retail or

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Speaker 4: extra commercial activity because we will have thousands of students

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Speaker 4: in the CBD and that is one thing that really

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Speaker 4: needs to be taken into account when you sort of

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Speaker 4: look at Newcastle and Tasmania for example, this year Tasmania's

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Speaker 4: office market is at two point seven percent vacant, so

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Speaker 4: compare that with ours May and seventeen point six. It's

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Speaker 4: a real contrast with them having now their university in

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Speaker 4: the heart of the city.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, most certainly is, isn't it. Jeez?

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Speaker 1: You know, you think that you're going well when there's

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Speaker 1: a bit of an improvement for the northern territory, but

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Speaker 1: then when you hear that, you.

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Speaker 4: Think, well, that's got a way to go, that's right,

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Speaker 4: and you know, again, we are still last, and we

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Speaker 4: have historically been last, and we need to take away

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Speaker 4: the positives from it, as you say.

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Speaker 3: But from that it is just the demand in that

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Speaker 3: quality space.

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Speaker 4: So what we feel is that the vacant derelic site

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Speaker 4: tax hasn't been effective in fixing that C grade space.

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Speaker 1: Oh you can tell that like when you go around

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Speaker 1: the city, you go, hang on a second, you know,

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Speaker 1: like some of the you know, the improvements I suppose this,

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Speaker 1: you know that people have been sort of forced to

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Speaker 1: put in you go, it hasn't made it made a

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Speaker 1: big difference.

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Speaker 4: This s band aid solution. Yeah, it's not fixing the

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Speaker 4: real economic problems that we have. It's not revitalizing the sea.

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Speaker 4: But he boarded up windows do not classify as revitalization, right.

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Speaker 4: But that's that's what's happening, and that's what's going on.

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Speaker 4: So you've got to dig deeper into why those problems

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Speaker 4: are occurring. We need the government to be able to

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Speaker 4: work with the property owners as to how we can

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Speaker 4: actually activate these buildings that are going to create some

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Speaker 4: real you know, real security around what's happening in Darwin.

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Speaker 4: So getting people into those spaces other than just putting

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Speaker 4: a sticker on a window.

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Speaker 2: Well, Ruth Palmer, we are going to have to leave

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Speaker 2: it there.

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Speaker 1: The Northern Territory, Executive Director of the Property Council of Australia.

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Speaker 2: Here in the Territory