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Speaker 1: Hello, this is The Happy Family's podcast. I'm doctor Justin Coilson.

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Speaker 1: It's so good to have you here. Over the last

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Speaker 1: couple of weeks, I've been chatting with Amantha Imber every

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Speaker 1: Monday from the How I Work podcast. Amantha owns a

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Speaker 1: consultancy called Inventium, and we've been talking about work life balance,

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Speaker 1: about sleep, about physical activity. Really we're having conversations about

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Speaker 1: well being because it's winter, it's cold, and it's really

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Speaker 1: important to look after our health, especially at this time

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Speaker 1: of the year, well all year. Today, doctor Imber joins

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Speaker 1: me once again to talk this time about stress management. Amantha.

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Speaker 1: When we actually talk about stress, what do we mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, I've read a lot of definitions of stress as

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Speaker 2: a psychologist. One that I particular like is that stress

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Speaker 2: is when the demands that are placed upon us exceed

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Speaker 2: our ability to cope. So there's an imbalance there. I

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Speaker 2: know you've got your own definition that you go to

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Speaker 2: justin what is that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, mine's aligned, but I'm probably a little bit more

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Speaker 1: basic in that it's just a demand being placed on

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Speaker 1: you that requires a response. So sometimes it's emotional, sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's physical, anything that requires us. So when I get

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Speaker 1: out of bed in the morning and I put pressure

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Speaker 1: on my legs to hold my body weight. I'm putting

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Speaker 1: stress on my legs. The amount of stress that they're

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Speaker 1: carrying is completely within their capacity to hold it, but

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Speaker 1: they are still experiencing a level of stress. But if

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Speaker 1: I get on the bike and start riding up a

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Speaker 1: big hill, now I'm putting a lot of stress on

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Speaker 1: my legs. And sometimes they've got the capacity to deal

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Speaker 1: with it. Sometimes they don't, and I reckon. That's a

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Speaker 1: really useful metaphor for life. Whether it's at work or

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Speaker 1: at home, there are sometimes when there's press is that

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Speaker 1: we're carrying, and we all are carrying stresses well within

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Speaker 1: our capacity to deal like we can do our general

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Speaker 1: duties most of the time, unless we're carrying some kind

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Speaker 1: of extra needs, maybe we've got depression or anxiety. But

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Speaker 1: when we start to carry those stresses and maybe the

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Speaker 1: boss puts more onto us, or the kids come home

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Speaker 1: and they say, I've got this assignment and it's due tomorrow,

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Speaker 1: and I totally forgotten. I've had it for four weeks

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Speaker 1: and I'm going to have to stay up until six

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Speaker 1: o'clock tomorrow morning. Get But that's the kind of stuff

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Speaker 1: where we go, oh, now I've got a level of

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Speaker 1: stress that this is going to affect my thinking, It's

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Speaker 1: going to affect my feelings, it's going to affect my

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Speaker 1: overall well being. This is a level of pressure that

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Speaker 1: I'm not quite sure if I'm equipped for, and I

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Speaker 1: think that's kind of one of the That's one of

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Speaker 1: the things that I want to talk to you about

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Speaker 1: this is this is an area that you really do

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Speaker 1: specialize in reframing stress, managing stress, and what it does

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Speaker 1: to our health when we either do or don't do

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Speaker 1: it well, tell me what you've got in terms of

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Speaker 1: your toolkit. When stress is becoming overwhelming for somebody, what

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Speaker 1: do you do? I mean, you're running a business, You've

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Speaker 1: got a child, you travel a lot, you're writing books,

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Speaker 1: you're running a podcast. How do you manage the big

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Speaker 1: stress moments?

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Speaker 2: I find that for me, the big stress moments are

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Speaker 2: when I catastrophize, and often the things that have stressed

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Speaker 2: me out most have actually never happened. They are simply

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Speaker 2: things that I worry about happening, but they never do.

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Speaker 2: I've wasted a lot of time being stressed. So for me,

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Speaker 2: when I think about what are the things that help

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Speaker 2: bring me back into a state that is feeling calm,

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Speaker 2: that is feeling grateful for what's going on, and that

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Speaker 2: is not projecting these imagined worries into my future, you know,

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Speaker 2: into like my future days, weeks, years. Is a ritual

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Speaker 2: that I do. I'll often do this with my daughter,

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Speaker 2: but sometimes I'll do it with my partner as well,

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Speaker 2: called rosebud Thorn. Rose bud thorn works is that firstly,

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Speaker 2: like if I'm doing it with my daughter, we'll talk

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Speaker 2: each about a rose from our day. A rose is

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Speaker 2: something really great that happened in our day. It might

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Speaker 2: be like a small great thing, something that we're grateful for,

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Speaker 2: or something that made us happy from the day. The

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Speaker 2: bud is something that we're looking forward to, so it

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Speaker 2: might be an event or an activity that we're doing

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Speaker 2: in the future. And then a thorn is something that

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Speaker 2: we might be struggling with or a problem that we've got.

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Speaker 2: And you know, there are many times where my daughter

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Speaker 2: and I have done rose bud thorn and she doesn't

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Speaker 2: have any thorns, which is totally fine and quite nice.

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Speaker 2: So it's just a really easy ritual that is about

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Speaker 2: tapping into how are we feeling right now, appreciating the

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Speaker 2: good stuff and also thinking about good stuff that we've

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Speaker 2: got coming up in the future.

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Speaker 1: Well, so I've got this thing that's so similar. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've got six daughters, right, So it's sunshine, storm clouds,

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Speaker 1: and rainbows. The sunshines of a do what's good. The

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Speaker 1: storm cloud is what didn't go so well, and the

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Speaker 1: rainbow is the rainbow's actually got a resilience focus. So

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Speaker 1: after the storm, there's always a way through it, there's

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Speaker 1: always an outcome. And we kind of do that same

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Speaker 1: kind of idea. I'm thinking about how that might look

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Speaker 1: in the boardroom. Maybe not, but we're talking about personal

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Speaker 1: stress here. We're talking about how we manage our personal stresses,

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Speaker 1: and we found that our kids really really love that.

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Speaker 1: They love the opportunity to reframe their stress and I

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Speaker 1: guess puzzle it out and problem solve. Iman. I know

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Speaker 1: that you're working on a book at the moment that

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Speaker 1: incorporates a little bit of this, well not a little bit,

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Speaker 1: quite a bit of this into what you're writing. You've

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Speaker 1: got a psychology background, as I do. What have you

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Speaker 1: found in terms of the impact of stress on mental

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Speaker 1: health and well being?

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's absolutely huge, and I think what is

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Speaker 2: really unfortunate is that, just like not having enough energy,

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Speaker 2: I feel that a lot of people think that it

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Speaker 2: is normal to just go through your day feeling pretty tired,

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Speaker 2: pretty exhausted. That is the norm for a lot of people. However,

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Speaker 2: it shouldn't be. It's not normal, like you should be

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Speaker 2: striving for better, is what I mean. I hate the

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Speaker 2: term normal as a psychologist. But also it's really easy

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Speaker 2: to kind of normalize stress and go, well, it's normal

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Speaker 2: to have a stressful job, it's normal for parenting to

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Speaker 2: be stressful. But you know, I think what we ideally

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Speaker 2: need to aspire to is ways that we can manage it.

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Speaker 2: You know, the aim is not to alleviate all stress.

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Speaker 2: Stress can be really good. Stress is often a source

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Speaker 2: of growth.

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Speaker 1: So glad you said that. I can't build bigger muscles.

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Speaker 1: I can't be a better bike rider, I can't be

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Speaker 1: a better surfer, I can't be a better parent, I

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Speaker 1: can't be a better author unless I push myself through

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Speaker 1: the challenge that it presents.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely I love that phrase around. Growth only happens outside

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Speaker 2: of your comfort zone, and you will feel stress if

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Speaker 2: you're outside of your comfort zone something that I've been

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Speaker 2: thinking about a lot lately. And it's funny because I've

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Speaker 2: only got the one child. But you know that's saying justin,

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Speaker 2: I'm going to get the wording wrong, but you're only

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Speaker 2: as happy as your unhappiest child. Have you come across

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Speaker 2: that before?

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Speaker 1: I have heard it, but I resist it. I resist

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Speaker 1: it really strongly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because I want to know, like, with six kids, like,

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Speaker 2: I'm sure at any given point in time, one of

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Speaker 2: your kids is dealing with a stressful situation. I find

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Speaker 2: when my daughter's dealing with something stressful, let's say a

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Speaker 2: friendship issue, I feel really stressed as well. And it

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Speaker 2: can also be quite triggering for say the friendship issues

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Speaker 2: that I went through at school. And I'm wondering, how

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Speaker 2: do you manage this with like six different sets of

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Speaker 2: emotional experiences in your children going on at any one

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Speaker 2: point in time.

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Speaker 1: There's a whole lot of research that shows that when

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Speaker 1: we as parents start to become anxious about things, when

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Speaker 1: our stress levels go up, our immediate response is that

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Speaker 1: we take control. And so if you've got a child

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Speaker 1: who's dealing with some anxiety, or dealing with some friendship

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Speaker 1: issues or not doing well at school or whatever it

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Speaker 1: could be. And it's not just in pairing. It happens

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Speaker 1: at work as well. When we start to feel anxious,

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Speaker 1: we feel like we're out of our comfort zone. We

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Speaker 1: feel like we have to control the situation, and so

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Speaker 1: we step into command and control mode. But what that does.

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Speaker 1: Let's keep it in the family context for now, but

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Speaker 1: anybody who's not in that context will still be saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this will definitely apply everywhere else. When I step in

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Speaker 1: with command and control to my child, I'm sending a

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Speaker 1: very clear message to them about my beliefs about their competence.

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Speaker 1: I'm essentially saying you're not competent. I need to step

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Speaker 1: in and control this right now. Now, sometimes that's actually true.

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Speaker 1: But if this is a repeated behavior, if this is

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Speaker 1: the way we respond to anxiety and stress all the time,

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Speaker 1: we start to become controlling rather than collaborative. We take

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Speaker 1: away their autonomy and overtime, that will cause a deterioration

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Speaker 1: of the relationship. In other words, the three basic psychological

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Speaker 1: needs that our kids have are being undermined by our

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Speaker 1: inability to sit well with stress, anxiety, worry, and challenge. Therefore,

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Speaker 1: over time, I've implemented a handful of strategies that have

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Speaker 1: worked really really well for me, and one of them

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Speaker 1: is actually not about my kids. It's about my wife.

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Speaker 1: And then I've learned how to transfer it into my kids' context.

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Speaker 1: So some time ago, I had a really hard conversation

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Speaker 1: with Kylie and I just said to her, Honey, whenever

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Speaker 1: you're having a bad day, which I'm grateful to say

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Speaker 1: doesn't happen often, but whenever you're having a bad day,

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Speaker 1: I feel responsible. I feel like it's my job to

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Speaker 1: fix things. I feel like I need to pand it

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Speaker 1: to your every emotional need and want so that I

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Speaker 1: can help you to have a good day. And it's

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Speaker 1: actually not really good for me. It's quite unhealthy for me.

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Speaker 1: It's creating this horrible interaction between this and I'm starting

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Speaker 1: to not feel nicely towards you because this is not

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Speaker 1: how I'm feeling, this is how you're feeling. And I

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Speaker 1: remember saying to her from this point, Ford, I need

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Speaker 1: you to know that I will be absolutely sad for

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Speaker 1: you that you're having a bad day, and I will

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Speaker 1: be absolutely supportive for you if you need something if

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Speaker 1: you're having a bad day. But I'm not responsible for

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Speaker 1: your bad day, or if I am, you need to

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Speaker 1: let me know how I'm responsible so I can do

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Speaker 1: something about it. And Amantha, just that awareness that I'm

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Speaker 1: not responsible for my wife's emotional challenges and I'm not

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Speaker 1: responsible for my children's emotional challenges has helped me to

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Speaker 1: not become intertwined with the emotional challenges and the stresses

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Speaker 1: and the dramas, which means that when they're having a

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Speaker 1: hard time, I guess I get to sort of stand

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Speaker 1: outside it a little bit, and I get to say,

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Speaker 1: I can see how hard this is for you. I

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Speaker 1: can see that today has been the worst day ever.

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Speaker 1: It's horrible when X, Y or Z happens, when the

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Speaker 1: boss is mad at you, or when you get a

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Speaker 1: traffic final when you crash the car, as one of

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Speaker 1: my children has done three times in the last twelve months,

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Speaker 1: or how I get to have this thing where I say,

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Speaker 1: this is just the worst news and it feels awful

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Speaker 1: for you. So I'm right there with the empathy, and

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Speaker 1: I'm right there with the kindness and the compassion, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not carrying the load. Instead, what I say is,

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Speaker 1: do you need a hud or do you need some space?

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Speaker 1: What can I do to support you because I'm actually

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Speaker 1: having a great day and I've got the psychological resources

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Speaker 1: to carry us both if need be, You just let

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Speaker 1: me know what you need and ame I know that that.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how that feels for

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Speaker 1: you to hear, but my goodness, it's been amazing for

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Speaker 1: me by creating. I guess that distance is saying my

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Speaker 1: buttons are my responsibility. Like some people say, oh, you're

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Speaker 1: pushing my buttons, and I'm like, no, no, no, no, they're

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Speaker 1: your buttons. You're in charge of them. You decide whether

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Speaker 1: I push them or not. Some people say, oh, you

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Speaker 1: don't respect my boundaries, and I'm like, You've got to

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Speaker 1: respect your boundaries, and then I don't have any choice

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Speaker 1: but to respect them. What's your reaction to that? Does

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Speaker 1: that sit well with you or does it feel like

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Speaker 1: it's a harsh. I'm really curious to how you respond

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Speaker 1: to that.

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Speaker 2: It sits so well. You know, when you hear something

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Speaker 2: at the right time. I feel like I needed to

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Speaker 2: hear that today. That is so helpful. And you know

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Speaker 2: when you hear someone share advice or an experience from

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Speaker 2: their own life, and your body just just relaxes and untenses,

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Speaker 2: and it's like, yes, that that is what I need

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Speaker 2: to do because I think personally I definitely take on

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Speaker 2: and feel and internalize not so much from my partner,

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Speaker 2: but definitely from my daughter when she is stressed. I

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Speaker 2: have to work so hard to do what you have

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Speaker 2: just spoken about.

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Speaker 1: So don't get me wrong. If I've got a daughter

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Speaker 1: who's having a hard time, I have six daughters. For

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Speaker 1: those of you who are new to the podcast, I

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Speaker 1: have six daughters. So I'm not going to talk about

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Speaker 1: my sons because I don't have one. But when I

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Speaker 1: have a daughter who's having a hard time, my inclination

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Speaker 1: is to step into that hard time with them. My

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Speaker 1: inclination is to carry that weight, maybe even for them.

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Speaker 1: And there are certainly times where something has happened with

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Speaker 1: the kids and I've walked out of the room and

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Speaker 1: taken a breath and gone, oh boy, now I am

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Speaker 1: really stressed, and I've had to do the stuff that

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Speaker 1: I know works for me to counter that stress. And

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Speaker 1: you know, here's my lightning round. This is what I

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Speaker 1: do when I'm really stressed. I connect with somebody who

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Speaker 1: I can trust, who I know is going to act

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Speaker 1: in my best interest and I share that stress. I

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Speaker 1: just that's got to be someone you can talk to.

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Speaker 1: And if that's not working, I exercise. There's just something

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Speaker 1: incredible about pushing my body really hard when I'm stressed.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, it makes all that go away. There

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Speaker 1: are two other things that I do. I make sure

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Speaker 1: I'm getting enough sleep, but I also try to find

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Speaker 1: somewhere beautiful to go and sit, and I'll be in

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Speaker 1: nature and maybe I look up at the clouds and

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Speaker 1: the sky and the stars, and I try to pull

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Speaker 1: awe into my life. Because once you realize how small

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Speaker 1: you are in the universe, in the universe, and how

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Speaker 1: small this problem really is compared to all the other

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Speaker 1: stuff that's going on, I know it just it gives

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Speaker 1: you some perspective. Doesn't mean that it's less of a problem.

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Speaker 1: It just means that you worry about it in a

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Speaker 1: different way. What about you, what's your lightning round quick

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Speaker 1: stress fixes?

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Speaker 2: Well, here's my super quick one. And it feels almost frivolous,

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Speaker 2: like compared to sort of like you know, these like

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Speaker 2: deeper emotional kind of strategies. But it's removing what I've

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Speaker 2: had referred to as recurring irritance from your life. So

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Speaker 2: recurring irritance things that happen regularly, maybe daily, maybe weekly,

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Speaker 2: maybe several times a day in your life that just

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Speaker 2: make you go.

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Speaker 1: Do you mean like my phone, Like just get it

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Speaker 1: out of my life for a day or two? Is

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Speaker 1: that what you mean?

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Speaker 2: Well, maybe your phone, but probably more specific than your phone. Like,

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Speaker 2: let me give you an example. I first heard this

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Speaker 2: term recurring irritance from down Heath best selling author and

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Speaker 2: he had a think where he works from his laptop.

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Speaker 2: He writes a lot of books, and he works from

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Speaker 2: accommodation of his home office and a cafe. And whenever

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Speaker 2: he moves and working in his home office to a cafe,

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Speaker 2: he packs up his laptop, but he also has to

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Speaker 2: pack up his power cord and there's an absolute mess

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Speaker 2: of power cords under his desk, so it's a bit

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Speaker 2: of a battle to find the right one and pull

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Speaker 2: it out. And then he finally does that, crawls out

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Speaker 2: from under the desk, puts in his backpack, goes to

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Speaker 2: the cafe, plugs in his laptop, does some work, comes home,

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Speaker 2: has to battle with the cords again when he gets home,

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Speaker 2: and this is like, this is a recurring irritant. For him,

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Speaker 2: it's something that's happening every day. And when he was

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Speaker 2: writing a book about solving problems more upstream, like closer

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Speaker 2: to the cause, getting to the root cause, it occurred

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Speaker 2: to him, I can buy a second laptop charger, And

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Speaker 2: that's what he did for fifty dollars. The irritant was removed.

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Speaker 2: And I think that it's a really great thing to

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Speaker 2: reflect on your own life, but more importantly, get other

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Speaker 2: people who were watching you and seeing what is irritating

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Speaker 2: you to go hey, like hey, justin, I always see

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Speaker 2: that when you do this when you have to, like

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Speaker 2: you know, spend an hour of your day chopping vegetables

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Speaker 2: to prepare dinner for your six kids in your life,

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Speaker 2: for example, like you always seem like a bit grumpy

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Speaker 2: doing that, Like I know your knife skills aren't the best,

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Speaker 2: Like you know, maybe we could do something about that.

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Speaker 2: Maybe we could buy pre cut vegetables, for example, from

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Speaker 2: the supermarket. So just doing a bit of an audit

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Speaker 2: of what are just those minor little things that frustrate you,

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Speaker 2: because those minor frustrations can build up and can make

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Speaker 2: the biggest stresses harder to manage. So remove those delegate,

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Speaker 2: find a different solution to stop doing them.

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Speaker 1: I'm just feeling that laptop cable thing so much, and

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Speaker 1: I've gone and bought one. I actually have done that

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Speaker 1: because of that very thing, Like literally when did it?

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Speaker 1: And oh my goodness, it made life so much easier.

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Speaker 1: You've also prompted something else in me that I know

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Speaker 1: that I need to do to de stress, and that

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Speaker 1: is I need more margin in my life. So I'm

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Speaker 1: the kind of person who if I've got a meeting

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Speaker 1: at midday, I log onto that meeting at twelve our

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Speaker 1: because I've tried to cram so much in before the

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Speaker 1: meeting and I'm still not ready for the meeting. Or

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Speaker 1: if I've got to be at an appointment and I've

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Speaker 1: got to drive there, I get there right on time.

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Speaker 1: There's no margin in case I get a slow driver

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Speaker 1: or a red light. And just hearing you talk about it,

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Speaker 1: I guess it's a recurring irritant, but it leads into

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Speaker 1: if your life is stressful, create some margin. I hadn't

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Speaker 1: thought of it when we were planning this out earlier,

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Speaker 1: but my goodness, it makes such a difference when you

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Speaker 1: can get in the car and you don't have to

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Speaker 1: speed to get there. You can just sit there and

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Speaker 1: drive at the speed limit and listen to a podcasts

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Speaker 1: or have a nice conversation and not worry. There has

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Speaker 1: been a great conversation and it's been such a great collaboration.

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Speaker 1: I've really enjoyed talking with you about how we can

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Speaker 1: improve our well being. Amantha, thanks so much for sharing

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Speaker 1: your wisdom and giving me the chance to do the same.

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Speaker 2: Likewise, Justin, I feel like I always learned something new

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Speaker 2: whenever we get the chance to connect. It's been a joy.

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Speaker 1: I love collaborating with people and I love the conversation

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Speaker 1: that doctor Amantha Ember and I have just had. The

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Speaker 1: Happy Families podcast for Today has been produced by the

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Speaker 1: iHeartRadio Network Australia. Our executive producer is Craig Bruce and

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Speaker 1: Kylie and I will be back tomorrow on the Happy

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Speaker 1: Families Podcast. If you like morefol about making your family happier,

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Speaker 1: please visit Happyfamilies dot com dot a you or check

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Speaker 1: out our Facebook page. Dr Justin Colson's Happy Families