WEBVTT - From nervous breakdown to rebuilding a life from scratch with author/journalist Georgie Dent 0:00:09.480 --> 0:00:13.240 Welcome to the Rise and Conquer Podcasts. This podcast is 0:00:13.280 --> 0:00:15.960 for women who want to take ownership of their lives, 0:00:16.320 --> 0:00:20.160 live unapologetically, and are ready to turn their biggest dreams 0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:23.439 into their reality. If you're ready to be armed with 0:00:23.520 --> 0:00:27.160 the tools that will inspire to take bold action, feel 0:00:27.200 --> 0:00:30.840 confident within yourself, and conquer your goals, then you've come 0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:34.520 to the right place. I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson. I'm 0:00:34.520 --> 0:00:38.400 a lawyer turned entrepreneur, co founder of Naked Harvest Supplements, 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:42.320 and social media personality with a community of over three 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:45.879 hundred thousand. I grew up believing I had to pursue 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:49.000 the safe option and fit into a mold others had 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:51.879 created for me. But then I entered my corporate law 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:54.880 job and I realized that settling for a reality that 0:00:55.000 --> 0:00:57.720 didn't set my soul on fire was something I. 0:00:57.680 --> 0:00:58.840 Was not prepared to do. 0:00:59.200 --> 0:01:02.040 I wanted more, and I have a feeling you do too. 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.640 Join me and special guest weekly as we get down 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:09.600 to the nitty gritty on all things health, mastering your mindset, 0:01:09.959 --> 0:01:14.440 creating lasting habits, thriving in your career and relationships, plus 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.880 so much more, and together we'll gain the knowledge and 0:01:17.959 --> 0:01:22.080 perspective to pursue our wildest dreams and kick fear to 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:25.119 the curb. Well, what are you waiting for? Let's rise 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:37.840 and conquer, Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:41.679 the Rise and Conquer podcast. Today's guest is author and 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:46.440 journalist Georgie Dent. At age twenty four, Georgie Dent the 0:01:46.520 --> 0:01:48.680 world at her feet also it seemed. 0:01:48.960 --> 0:01:50.640 She graduated university with. 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:53.720 Flying colors, landed a job at a corporate law firm, 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:57.640 and moved in with her boyfriend. Everything looked picture perfect 0:01:58.160 --> 0:02:01.160 and she had no reason to break, but she did. 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:05.040 Within a year, Georgie was unemployed, back living with her parents, 0:02:05.080 --> 0:02:08.840 and suffering such crippling anxiety that she ended up in 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:13.200 a psychiatric hospital. Fast forward to today and Georgie has 0:02:13.240 --> 0:02:16.640 three beautiful girls. That boyfriend is now her husband, and 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.079 now she is a journalist and author. Georgie wrote her 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.639 breakdown in slow motion and how she rebuilt her life 0:02:23.680 --> 0:02:27.680 in her book Breaking Badly. Her story provides an inspiring 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.520 and raw recount that proves that not oni is recovery 0:02:31.520 --> 0:02:35.440 from a mental health disorder possible, but so is rebuilding 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.480 a beautiful life with a fulfilling career. And loving family. 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.920 Georgie is warm and so clever beyond words. I was 0:02:41.960 --> 0:02:44.799 so grateful she invited us into her home to record 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:48.640 this episode, and I am so grateful to listen to 0:02:48.720 --> 0:02:53.680 her story and now share it with you. Welcome to 0:02:53.720 --> 0:02:55.959 the show, Georgie, Thank you so much for having us 0:02:56.000 --> 0:02:56.639 in your house. 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:57.800 Thank you for having me. 0:02:58.680 --> 0:02:59.720 It is our. 0:02:59.639 --> 0:03:02.600 Rainy here in Sydney, so sorry if you guys can 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:07.480 hear the rain, but it's actually quite nice. But Georgie, 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:11.560 the first question I ask everyone is what current season 0:03:11.680 --> 0:03:14.320 are you in? And so the reason why I ask 0:03:14.400 --> 0:03:17.840 this is we are all going through something and I'm 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:20.840 very much about being grateful for what we're going through 0:03:20.880 --> 0:03:23.560 and realizing that it's just that a season. 0:03:24.240 --> 0:03:25.480 So tell us about yours. 0:03:26.360 --> 0:03:29.960 Okay, So I am in a season, I would say, 0:03:30.040 --> 0:03:33.520 or the season that I'm hoping to enjoy for the 0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:36.240 first half of this year is actually a little bit 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:40.600 slower paced. Twenty nineteen was very very busy for me 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:43.720 on a few fronts, personally and professionally with the family, 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.320 with work, with my husband's work, and I got to 0:03:47.360 --> 0:03:51.160 the end of last year feeling really close to burnout, 0:03:52.680 --> 0:03:55.960 and so I have been really conscious of the fact 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:57.680 that this year, I actually do want to do a 0:03:57.720 --> 0:04:00.480 little bit less work and I want to spend less 0:04:00.520 --> 0:04:04.560 time chasing my tail. I've set things up this year 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:06.080 so that hopefully it is going to be like that, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:09.360 and I mean it's only early days, but I definitely 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:12.920 feel like I am going to be structuring my weeks 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:14.720 and days so that I have got a bit more 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:18.440 time to enjoy what I'm doing, whether whether it's when 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:20.000 I'm at work or whether it's when I'm home with 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:22.880 the kids. I just want to be doing one thing 0:04:22.880 --> 0:04:25.400 at a time, so almost. 0:04:25.000 --> 0:04:28.279 Like being more intentional with your time. 0:04:28.600 --> 0:04:32.080 Yes, and being really conscious about I mean, I've always 0:04:33.200 --> 0:04:36.520 one of the things about working and having kids is 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:38.640 you know, and it's so cliched, but it is a juggle. 0:04:38.680 --> 0:04:40.800 And so I am constantly looking at my diary and 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:43.400 seeing what needs to happen and how it's going to happen. 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:45.680 And so because of that, I have had to be 0:04:45.720 --> 0:04:50.240 strategic about my time. But this year, my plan is 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:54.599 to just skew slightly more towards doing less than doing more, 0:04:55.360 --> 0:04:57.680 so that I can enjoy the things that I have 0:04:57.760 --> 0:04:58.760 and the things that I do. 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.159 I love that and I can resonate a lot with that. 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:03.920 Last year it kind of felt like I was like 0:05:03.960 --> 0:05:06.279 a headless chook and I was running on and I 0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:08.320 was doing so much and nothing was getting done. 0:05:08.360 --> 0:05:09.720 Well, a lot was getting done. 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:11.880 But definitely this year is a lot about being more 0:05:11.880 --> 0:05:15.400 intentional and conscious that when I'm working, I'm working, and 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:17.680 then when I'm doing other stuff, I'm present there too. 0:05:18.440 --> 0:05:19.800 Yep, amazing. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.720 Can you tell us a little snapshot about yourself? So also, 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.160 I've done a little intro, but yeah, give us a 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:27.640 little snapshot in your own words. 0:05:27.800 --> 0:05:32.400 Okay, Well, so I am thirty seven, I've got I 0:05:32.440 --> 0:05:34.920 live in Sydney with my husband, and we've got three 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:38.360 daughters who are nine, seven and about to turn four. 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:43.440 I work as a journalist and I work across a 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:45.960 number of different platforms. So there's a website that I 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:48.039 edit a couple of days a week called Women's Agenda. 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:50.919 I contribute articles, and I have worked as part of 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.839 the features team at My Claire. I have a column 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.480 with Fairfax Papers, and then I do I wrote a 0:05:57.520 --> 0:05:59.960 book last year, and I do quite a bit of 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.479 speaking around both gender equality and women at work and 0:06:04.040 --> 0:06:08.120 mental health and anxiety and perfectionism. So I wear a 0:06:08.160 --> 0:06:11.560 few different hats. Every week is a little bit different, 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:17.120 and I yeah, but it's predominantly writing, speaking at events, 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:18.920 and then I do a bit of media as well, 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.919 so a lot on it is fairly busy. 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:25.880 Yes, And so do you actually do you like that 0:06:26.040 --> 0:06:29.240 I use someone who prefers more of a routine, or 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:31.520 do you like that every week is quite different? 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.400 I do like having a pattern, That's what I do 0:06:35.520 --> 0:06:37.800 quite like. And my weeks do have a rhythm to them, 0:06:37.800 --> 0:06:40.880 so even though not every week is identical, there are 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.039 a couple of things that are sort of anchored and 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:44.800 the same. And I guess that's one of the things 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:49.360 with having three children tour at school. The school term 0:06:49.640 --> 0:06:52.440 and their school activities does give you a sort of 0:06:52.480 --> 0:06:54.760 structure and routine, so I sort of know what everyone's 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.000 got on each afternoon or each morning before school, and 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.320 then that helps to plan my week. So I definitely 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:06.440 do like having some structure, but I also quite enjoy 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:08.200 that not every single day is the same. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:09.760 I love that. 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:12.920 And so you did just before, say, you wrote a 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:15.320 book and it is breaking badly. 0:07:15.520 --> 0:07:17.200 I have read it, guys. It's amazing. 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.640 I personally am someone who has struggled with anxiety myself. 0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:24.440 So I just found it. I know Grace has read 0:07:24.480 --> 0:07:27.200 it too. I just found it. Yeah, like you were 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.520 able to read it, and especially because you were talking 0:07:29.520 --> 0:07:32.920 about Brisbane and Australia that sort of thing, and I 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:38.000 just really resonated with it because you really went through 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:41.120 each stage and yeah, it was great. 0:07:41.200 --> 0:07:42.440 So let's get into that. 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:48.760 So it's your experience with anxiety, perfectionism, and your career burnout. 0:07:49.000 --> 0:07:51.480 So I love that you can share your experience with 0:07:51.560 --> 0:07:56.080 mental illness and be so vulnerable and honest about it 0:07:56.840 --> 0:07:59.720 because I know there's a lot of people who suffering 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:03.160 sons like you did when you were talking about it 0:08:03.160 --> 0:08:05.360 at the start of the book two, and it's really 0:08:05.920 --> 0:08:08.320 it's hard to come out and talk about it. So 0:08:09.200 --> 0:08:12.720 what compelled you to write a book like this? And 0:08:13.440 --> 0:08:16.680 was it hard to share your message on mental illness? 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:21.480 Okay, very good question. I was compelled to write this book. 0:08:22.160 --> 0:08:25.920 I suppose it happened gradually. So when I had the 0:08:25.960 --> 0:08:28.920 book covers the fact that I had a nervous breakdown 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:31.120 when I was twenty five and it was sort of 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.960 four pretty hellish months where I was unable to do 0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.679 very much at all, and I was quite debilitated by 0:08:36.760 --> 0:08:39.880 illness and dizziness, and I ended up sort of living 0:08:39.920 --> 0:08:41.719 back with my parents for a period of time, and 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:44.520 then I ended up in a psychiatric hospital. So all 0:08:44.559 --> 0:08:48.240 of that was pretty terrible. The good part was that 0:08:48.280 --> 0:08:50.400 once I went to a psychiatric hospital, I was put 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:52.680 on medication and I started doing a whole lot of 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.680 therapy and that I'd never done before, and I very 0:08:55.760 --> 0:08:59.720 quickly became a lot healthier, and I was able to 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:02.400 sort of function in a manner that was so much 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.320 more constructive and healthy than I'd ever been. So pretty 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:09.560 quickly after what I went through, I did tell people 0:09:09.559 --> 0:09:12.000 what had happened. And it was about two years after 0:09:12.040 --> 0:09:13.640 it happened that I actually wrote about it for the 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:17.800 first time, and I sent it off to Mia Friedman, 0:09:17.840 --> 0:09:20.600 who at the time her website was still just a 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:22.840 blog mum of me, but it had quite a big readership, 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:24.680 and I sent it off to her and just said, 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:26.480 if you want to publish this anonymously, I'd be really 0:09:26.520 --> 0:09:30.880 happy to share my story. And it felt quite scary 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:35.080 even without my name being attached to it. I was 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.000 really brutally honest about what had happened in that really yeah, 0:09:39.160 --> 0:09:41.839 and it really struck a chord. So it sort of 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:44.000 had one hundred comments very quickly. And this is a 0:09:44.000 --> 0:09:46.320 long time ago. We're talking twelve years ago, when you know, 0:09:46.360 --> 0:09:49.520 there weren't comments galare on websites. And so that was 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.440 my first experience of writing about what had happened. And 0:09:52.480 --> 0:09:55.040 then I did write more about it, and I spoke 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:57.200 about it more at different events and things like that, 0:09:57.240 --> 0:09:59.120 and whenever I spoke about it or wrote about it, 0:09:59.160 --> 0:10:02.400 I was always druck by the number of people who 0:10:02.480 --> 0:10:05.840 connected with it. So fast forward a few years ago, 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.000 a publisher approached me and just said that she loved 0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.440 the way I write and that she thinks she would 0:10:11.559 --> 0:10:12.960 have really liked to work on a book with me. 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.000 And she said, what would you like to write a 0:10:15.040 --> 0:10:17.200 book on? And I think she was actually probably expecting 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.920 me to say something around women, but I said to her, look, 0:10:20.960 --> 0:10:22.200 I think if I'm going to write a book, I've 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.520 got to write about what happened to me. And so 0:10:24.640 --> 0:10:28.040 that was how it came about, and so I ended 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:31.439 up writing the book. I started it just over ten 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:35.160 years after I'd had the breakdown, and so I had 0:10:35.160 --> 0:10:39.120 the benefit of dis and hindsight, and I had written. 0:10:39.280 --> 0:10:41.120 I had written quite a lot about what had happened 0:10:41.400 --> 0:10:43.480 at the time, but I also had you know, my 0:10:43.559 --> 0:10:45.920 mum had all these emails from between her and I, 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:48.840 so I had material I could look back on. But 0:10:48.920 --> 0:10:52.880 I didn't find it difficult to write. I really enjoyed 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:56.440 the process of writing it. But yeah, that was how 0:10:56.440 --> 0:10:57.040 it came about. 0:10:58.000 --> 0:11:00.719 And so let's go back to the start a bit. 0:11:00.800 --> 0:11:03.600 Let us explore that a bit. So tell us about 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:09.199 when you were nineteen and you were facing these health issues. 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:12.680 Tell us about your first of all, like the health 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:16.439 issues and your experience with the doctors you were facing. 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.600 So when I was in year twelve at school, So 0:11:20.880 --> 0:11:23.000 I went to school in Brisbane, so I was seventeen. 0:11:23.040 --> 0:11:26.240 In my final year of school, I started to have 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:28.880 my tummy was quite upset a lot of the time. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:31.760 I started having cramps a lot. It was not particularly 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.600 pleasant and I sort of ignored it for a period 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.440 of time. I did go to the doctor at one 0:11:36.480 --> 0:11:38.280 point and he sort of said, oh, look, it's probably 0:11:38.360 --> 0:11:40.720 it's not uncommon. In year twelve. There's a lot of stress, 0:11:41.160 --> 0:11:44.560 you know, it's your body's reaction to that. But then 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.679 after I at the end of my first year of UNI, 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.400 I sort of was having another set of physiological symptoms 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:55.560 but also that were abdomen related, but it was more 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.200 like intense, crazy period pain, but not necessarily when I 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:02.760 had my period, and my tummy would often of a 0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:07.079 night completely blow up to look like I was almost 0:12:07.320 --> 0:12:09.920 five months pregnant, and then I would just have the 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.800 most horrific cramping in it. Anyway, I realized I needed 0:12:13.840 --> 0:12:15.720 to see someone, and I spoke to the GP and 0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.320 she sort of said, look, I think you probably need 0:12:17.360 --> 0:12:20.800 to go and see a gynocologist. And I was nineteen 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.199 and I hadn't ever seen a gynocologist. And I went 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.360 for the first appointment and the man was perfectly pleasant, 0:12:27.240 --> 0:12:32.080 age but perfectly pleasant, and when I explained to him 0:12:32.200 --> 0:12:33.959 my symptoms, he said, look, to me, it sounds like 0:12:34.000 --> 0:12:38.240 you've probably got endometriosis. Will do an internal ultrasound and see, 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:40.040 but if that's what you have, which I think you do, 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:41.920 we'll then have to do some operations to cut the 0:12:41.920 --> 0:12:46.000 tissue away. Now again, this was we're now talking. That 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.920 was almost twenty years ago, and endometriosis was not a 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:51.000 word I'd ever heard. I didn't know what that meant. 0:12:51.559 --> 0:12:53.920 I didn't like the idea of having surgery to cut 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.160 anything away. But I went through the motions and he 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.640 did an internal ultrasound, which was, you know, vile as 0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:02.360 these things are. And also I was young, so I 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:04.040 wasn't sort of yet. I mean, I've had to three 0:13:04.160 --> 0:13:05.800 children now, so I know what it's like to lose 0:13:05.800 --> 0:13:09.679 your dignity completely in a medical setting, but back then 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:11.960 it was all quite new, so I was quite afraid. 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:14.360 But he did the ultrasound and he sort of was 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.480 pointing out on the screen all these bitsiness pieces that 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.240 I had no idea what it meant. But he basically said, look, 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:22.040 you do have andrometriosis. It's everywhere, so we'll do some 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:26.480 surgery to cut it all away. Yeah, and those He 0:13:26.559 --> 0:13:29.600 ended up doing three operations over five weeks. It was 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:34.560 really quite intense. My body horrific, you know, three general anesthetics. 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:38.800 It really knocked me around, and I was still young. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:40.520 Mum came up to Brisbane to look after me, and 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:42.959 I had heaps of family support. All my friends were amazing, 0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:47.080 but it was pretty brutal. And you know the other 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:50.960 thing was that I didn't particularly like having these symptoms 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:53.079 it certainly wasn't something I really wanted to talk about 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.800 with people, So I think that all made it quite 0:13:55.800 --> 0:13:59.560 a lonely experience, even though I had lots of people 0:13:59.559 --> 0:14:01.719 around me. But I really did feel like I was 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.400 sort of on my own, fighting this battle with my 0:14:04.440 --> 0:14:07.840 body that I didn't really want to be fighting. And 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:09.679 then after I'd had all of those procedures, it was 0:14:09.720 --> 0:14:11.920 about a month later that I was still having really 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.960 horrific stomach symptoms, and so then when we saw the GP, 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:16.360 she said, look, you have to go and see a 0:14:16.400 --> 0:14:19.840 gastroentrologist now. And then fairly soon after that, I was 0:14:19.880 --> 0:14:23.520 diagnosed with Crohn's disease, which again i'd never heard of 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:26.480 until I was being told that I had it. And 0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:32.000 it's a inflammatory bowel disease. It's an autoimmune condition. It's 0:14:32.200 --> 0:14:35.880 every bit as vile as it sounds, and it affects 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.040 people differently. You can have it in sort of varying 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:41.240 degrees of severity. There are people who end up having 0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.880 to have their huge sections of their bow surgically removed 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.120 because of it. I was a pretty much case in 0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:51.480 the middle. I was not I didn't ever have to 0:14:51.560 --> 0:14:53.440 have surgery to have any of my bow removed, but 0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.360 I did. It was pretty debilitating at different points, and 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:01.360 I was put on iminosuppressant drugs that in itself created 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.720 a whole raft of side effects. And I was sort 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:06.160 of having to have blood tests every There were periods 0:15:06.200 --> 0:15:07.360 of time where I had to have a blood test 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.120 every week for three months or so. I felt a 0:15:11.120 --> 0:15:15.480 little bit trapped in this medical black hole. But I 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:17.240 was studying. I was at Union at the time. I 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.440 was doing business and law, and I was really eager 0:15:20.680 --> 0:15:25.400 to sort of keep up maintaining my normal existence. Yeah, 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:29.680 and sort of hiding a little bit gnaoring it. Yeah, 0:15:29.680 --> 0:15:32.040 it's funny because I did, because you were I always 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.120 went to my appointments, I always saw the doctors, I 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.200 took the medication, I did whatever I needed to do. 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.560 But I really did try to divide my life into 0:15:39.560 --> 0:15:42.440 two parts, and that my medical health issues were in 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.440 one part that was ring fenced and that was just 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.960 my personal private battle that no one really needed to 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:49.720 know about, and then there was the rest of my life. 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.440 Yeah, so you separated it in a way. Yeah, So 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:58.640 tell us about you went to university, you graded, graduated university, 0:15:58.680 --> 0:16:02.080 and then you started working in a commercial law firm 0:16:02.360 --> 0:16:05.800 tell us about kind of because of these health issues, 0:16:05.960 --> 0:16:09.440 what a day in you know, the workplace looked like. 0:16:10.720 --> 0:16:13.720 So I moved to Sydney for my first full time 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:15.960 job when I graduated from UNI, and it was with 0:16:16.040 --> 0:16:18.720 a big corporate law firm. I was doing their graduate program. 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:22.280 And I suppose that when I've been at UNI, I'd 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.360 always been able to. At UNI, you have got enough 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.800 autonomy that you can, I mean, aside from exams, and 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:31.280 you know, if you had a presentation, if you needed 0:16:31.280 --> 0:16:32.800 to race out of a lecture theater, or you were 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:36.680 running late, no one really knew you could hide. When 0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:38.840 I moved down to Sydney and started full time work, 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.640 I found it really difficult because my health issues I 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.600 couldn't hide them in the day, and I was working 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:48.400 really very long hours. And I was also I'd started 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:52.240 in an environment where you all know that these jobs 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:54.480 are very competitive, that they're hard to get, you know 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.760 that the standard expected of you is very high, and 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:01.160 I think I absorbed a lot of pressure and stress 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:03.880 that ended up sort of exacerbating the fact that I 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.080 already had fairly average health. 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:07.480 And so. 0:17:08.960 --> 0:17:12.320 Probably after about six months, my days at work looked 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.199 I was just forever needing to go to the bathroom. 0:17:14.240 --> 0:17:15.959 If I was walking to work, it would take three 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:17.919 or four stops along the way before I could get 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:19.919 to work. And then I'd get to work and be 0:17:20.000 --> 0:17:23.480 mortified by the three bathroom stops and would then sit 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:25.119 down at my desk and try to pretend that I 0:17:25.160 --> 0:17:28.400 was perfectly fine. And you know, it sort of ended 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:30.560 up being a little bit of a very vicious cycle, 0:17:31.240 --> 0:17:34.560 and I ended up my tummy became much more difficult 0:17:34.560 --> 0:17:37.399 to manage. There were instances where I was in and 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.600 out of hospital, even if it was just for a 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:41.480 day or two days, or you know, they had to 0:17:41.520 --> 0:17:48.320 do investigations. So I certainly wasn't thriving from a health perspective, 0:17:49.080 --> 0:17:51.040 and I was just sort of doing the best I could. 0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:53.880 I couldn't even imagine, because, like I was saying before 0:17:53.920 --> 0:17:56.520 the interview, I've been in a law firm in. 0:17:56.480 --> 0:17:57.400 The graduate position. 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:02.800 It's already such a press and stress in the day 0:18:02.840 --> 0:18:04.760 to day task. You're expected to be and earlier, you're 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.280 expected to stay late, you're expected to say yes to 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:11.439 anything they want, And so I couldn't imagine, and I 0:18:11.600 --> 0:18:14.119 definitely felt a lot of stress in that position, and 0:18:14.119 --> 0:18:17.800 I couldn't imagine as well having those health issues on top. 0:18:17.920 --> 0:18:20.160 So I, yeah, I could. 0:18:19.960 --> 0:18:24.560 Imagine that being such a stressful and like you said, 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.480 like lonely part of your life. And so I want 0:18:29.520 --> 0:18:32.280 to talk about perfectionism because you do talk about this 0:18:32.359 --> 0:18:35.359 in the book and it's something I resonated with. And 0:18:35.400 --> 0:18:39.360 you were saying, for example, at work, you never cut 0:18:39.400 --> 0:18:41.480 yourself a break, like even if you took a sick day, 0:18:41.480 --> 0:18:43.879 which was very necessary, it's not like you were taking 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:46.399 a you know, a fake sick day. You saw that 0:18:46.480 --> 0:18:50.320 as a failure or an inability to cope. And I 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:54.199 even remember reading the book, like even the language that 0:18:54.280 --> 0:18:56.520 you would use to kind of talk to yourself like 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:58.919 it was, it was very negative and you were very 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:03.760 hard on yourself. How do you think perfectionism contributed to 0:19:03.880 --> 0:19:04.640 your underwing? 0:19:05.600 --> 0:19:10.440 Yeah, I think it contributed pretty significantly. And I didn't 0:19:10.720 --> 0:19:13.160 really until I had my breakdown and then had cause 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.359 to sort of learn about all of these different things. 0:19:16.160 --> 0:19:19.160 I had no idea that I thought, like a lot 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.520 of people, that perfectionism was just sort of the ultimate 0:19:21.600 --> 0:19:23.959 humble brag. But you really, you just have got amazing 0:19:24.000 --> 0:19:26.120 standards and you're like doing a great job, like. 0:19:26.040 --> 0:19:28.360 You say in the interview, when you're like, oh, that's 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.040 my weakness, yeah, perfectionist. 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.560 Sorry, I've Yeah. Well, we all say that and we 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.000 all get the jobs because it's a known thing. But 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.760 what I came to learn was that perfectionism is actually 0:19:39.800 --> 0:19:44.760 a very toxic condition, and where it becomes dangerous and 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:48.840 or where it is toxic, is that you reduce the 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:53.560 world into black and white and either everything is absolutely 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:58.199 perfect or everything you were an absolute total failure. So 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:03.680 for me, illness was probably the most damaging. I think 0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.320 I did probably the most damage to myself at applying 0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:11.520 perfectionism to a chronic illness, because in my head, right 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.119 up until the point that I fell apart, I really 0:20:14.160 --> 0:20:16.720 did think that any day that I didn't feel well, 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.159 let alone a day where I needed to be in 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:25.520 hospital and have a procedure, I internalized that as being 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:30.360 total failure, because in my head, I was either basically 0:20:30.400 --> 0:20:32.199 a robot who could just go to work and have 0:20:32.280 --> 0:20:35.920 absolutely no problems, or if I was a human being 0:20:35.960 --> 0:20:39.040 with some sort of vulnerability to a medical condition, I 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:43.360 was a total failure. And I can see now in hindsight, 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.520 I learned that that's actually perfectionism, and it's quite a 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.360 toxic thinking pattern. But I didn't know there was any 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:53.240 other option at that point. And because I was having 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:55.240 a chronic illness, it wasn't like I sort of had, 0:20:55.320 --> 0:20:57.520 you know, three weeks where I had this terrible appendicitis 0:20:57.560 --> 0:20:59.199 and then they removed it and then I recovered and 0:20:59.200 --> 0:21:01.920