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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Rise and Conquer Podcasts. This podcast is

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Speaker 1: for women who want to take ownership of their lives,

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Speaker 1: live unapologetically, and are ready to turn their biggest dreams

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Speaker 1: into their reality. If you're ready to be armed with

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Speaker 1: the tools that will inspire to take bold action, feel

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Speaker 1: confident within yourself, and conquer your goals, then you've come

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Speaker 1: to the right place. I'm your host, Georgie Stevenson. I'm

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Speaker 1: a lawyer turned entrepreneur, co founder of Naked Harvest Supplements,

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Speaker 1: and social media personality with a community of over three

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand. I grew up believing I had to pursue

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Speaker 1: the safe option and fit into a mold others had

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Speaker 1: created for me. But then I entered my corporate law

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Speaker 1: job and I realized that settling for a reality that

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Speaker 1: didn't set my soul on fire was something I.

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Speaker 2: Was not prepared to do.

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Speaker 1: I wanted more, and I have a feeling you do too.

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Speaker 1: Join me and special guest weekly as we get down

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Speaker 1: to the nitty gritty on all things health, mastering your mindset,

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Speaker 1: creating lasting habits, thriving in your career and relationships, plus

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Speaker 1: so much more, and together we'll gain the knowledge and

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Speaker 1: perspective to pursue our wildest dreams and kick fear to

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Speaker 1: the curb. Well, what are you waiting for? Let's rise

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Speaker 1: and conquer, Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of

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Speaker 1: the Rise and Conquer podcast. Today's guest is author and

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Speaker 1: journalist Georgie Dent. At age twenty four, Georgie Dent the

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Speaker 1: world at her feet also it seemed.

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Speaker 2: She graduated university with.

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Speaker 1: Flying colors, landed a job at a corporate law firm,

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Speaker 1: and moved in with her boyfriend. Everything looked picture perfect

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Speaker 1: and she had no reason to break, but she did.

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Speaker 1: Within a year, Georgie was unemployed, back living with her parents,

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Speaker 1: and suffering such crippling anxiety that she ended up in

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Speaker 1: a psychiatric hospital. Fast forward to today and Georgie has

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Speaker 1: three beautiful girls. That boyfriend is now her husband, and

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Speaker 1: now she is a journalist and author. Georgie wrote her

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Speaker 1: breakdown in slow motion and how she rebuilt her life

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Speaker 1: in her book Breaking Badly. Her story provides an inspiring

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Speaker 1: and raw recount that proves that not oni is recovery

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Speaker 1: from a mental health disorder possible, but so is rebuilding

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Speaker 1: a beautiful life with a fulfilling career. And loving family.

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Speaker 1: Georgie is warm and so clever beyond words. I was

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Speaker 1: so grateful she invited us into her home to record

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Speaker 1: this episode, and I am so grateful to listen to

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Speaker 1: her story and now share it with you. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show, Georgie, Thank you so much for having us

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Speaker 1: in your house.

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Speaker 3: Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: It is our.

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Speaker 1: Rainy here in Sydney, so sorry if you guys can

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Speaker 1: hear the rain, but it's actually quite nice. But Georgie,

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Speaker 1: the first question I ask everyone is what current season

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Speaker 1: are you in? And so the reason why I ask

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Speaker 1: this is we are all going through something and I'm

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Speaker 1: very much about being grateful for what we're going through

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Speaker 1: and realizing that it's just that a season.

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Speaker 2: So tell us about yours.

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Speaker 3: Okay, So I am in a season, I would say,

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Speaker 3: or the season that I'm hoping to enjoy for the

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Speaker 3: first half of this year is actually a little bit

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Speaker 3: slower paced. Twenty nineteen was very very busy for me

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Speaker 3: on a few fronts, personally and professionally with the family,

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Speaker 3: with work, with my husband's work, and I got to

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Speaker 3: the end of last year feeling really close to burnout,

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Speaker 3: and so I have been really conscious of the fact

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Speaker 3: that this year, I actually do want to do a

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Speaker 3: little bit less work and I want to spend less

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Speaker 3: time chasing my tail. I've set things up this year

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Speaker 3: so that hopefully it is going to be like that,

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Speaker 3: and I mean it's only early days, but I definitely

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Speaker 3: feel like I am going to be structuring my weeks

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Speaker 3: and days so that I have got a bit more

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Speaker 3: time to enjoy what I'm doing, whether whether it's when

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Speaker 3: I'm at work or whether it's when I'm home with

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Speaker 3: the kids. I just want to be doing one thing

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Speaker 3: at a time, so almost.

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Speaker 1: Like being more intentional with your time.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and being really conscious about I mean, I've always

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Speaker 3: one of the things about working and having kids is

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Speaker 3: you know, and it's so cliched, but it is a juggle.

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Speaker 3: And so I am constantly looking at my diary and

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Speaker 3: seeing what needs to happen and how it's going to happen.

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Speaker 3: And so because of that, I have had to be

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Speaker 3: strategic about my time. But this year, my plan is

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Speaker 3: to just skew slightly more towards doing less than doing more,

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Speaker 3: so that I can enjoy the things that I have

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Speaker 3: and the things that I do.

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Speaker 1: I love that and I can resonate a lot with that.

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Speaker 1: Last year it kind of felt like I was like

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Speaker 1: a headless chook and I was running on and I

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Speaker 1: was doing so much and nothing was getting done.

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Speaker 2: Well, a lot was getting done.

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Speaker 1: But definitely this year is a lot about being more

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Speaker 1: intentional and conscious that when I'm working, I'm working, and

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Speaker 1: then when I'm doing other stuff, I'm present there too.

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Speaker 2: Yep, amazing.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us a little snapshot about yourself? So also,

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Speaker 1: I've done a little intro, but yeah, give us a

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Speaker 1: little snapshot in your own words.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Well, so I am thirty seven, I've got I

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Speaker 3: live in Sydney with my husband, and we've got three

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Speaker 3: daughters who are nine, seven and about to turn four.

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Speaker 3: I work as a journalist and I work across a

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Speaker 3: number of different platforms. So there's a website that I

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Speaker 3: edit a couple of days a week called Women's Agenda.

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Speaker 3: I contribute articles, and I have worked as part of

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Speaker 3: the features team at My Claire. I have a column

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Speaker 3: with Fairfax Papers, and then I do I wrote a

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Speaker 3: book last year, and I do quite a bit of

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Speaker 3: speaking around both gender equality and women at work and

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Speaker 3: mental health and anxiety and perfectionism. So I wear a

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Speaker 3: few different hats. Every week is a little bit different,

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Speaker 3: and I yeah, but it's predominantly writing, speaking at events,

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Speaker 3: and then I do a bit of media as well,

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Speaker 3: so a lot on it is fairly busy.

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Speaker 1: Yes, And so do you actually do you like that

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Speaker 1: I use someone who prefers more of a routine, or

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Speaker 1: do you like that every week is quite different?

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Speaker 3: I do like having a pattern, That's what I do

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Speaker 3: quite like. And my weeks do have a rhythm to them,

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Speaker 3: so even though not every week is identical, there are

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Speaker 3: a couple of things that are sort of anchored and

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Speaker 3: the same. And I guess that's one of the things

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Speaker 3: with having three children tour at school. The school term

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Speaker 3: and their school activities does give you a sort of

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Speaker 3: structure and routine, so I sort of know what everyone's

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Speaker 3: got on each afternoon or each morning before school, and

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Speaker 3: then that helps to plan my week. So I definitely

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Speaker 3: do like having some structure, but I also quite enjoy

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Speaker 3: that not every single day is the same.

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Speaker 2: I love that.

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Speaker 1: And so you did just before, say, you wrote a

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Speaker 1: book and it is breaking badly.

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Speaker 2: I have read it, guys. It's amazing.

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Speaker 1: I personally am someone who has struggled with anxiety myself.

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Speaker 1: So I just found it. I know Grace has read

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Speaker 1: it too. I just found it. Yeah, like you were

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Speaker 1: able to read it, and especially because you were talking

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Speaker 1: about Brisbane and Australia that sort of thing, and I

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Speaker 1: just really resonated with it because you really went through

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Speaker 1: each stage and yeah, it was great.

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Speaker 2: So let's get into that.

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Speaker 1: So it's your experience with anxiety, perfectionism, and your career burnout.

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Speaker 1: So I love that you can share your experience with

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Speaker 1: mental illness and be so vulnerable and honest about it

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Speaker 1: because I know there's a lot of people who suffering

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Speaker 1: sons like you did when you were talking about it

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Speaker 1: at the start of the book two, and it's really

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Speaker 1: it's hard to come out and talk about it. So

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Speaker 1: what compelled you to write a book like this? And

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Speaker 1: was it hard to share your message on mental illness?

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Speaker 3: Okay, very good question. I was compelled to write this book.

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Speaker 3: I suppose it happened gradually. So when I had the

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Speaker 3: book covers the fact that I had a nervous breakdown

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Speaker 3: when I was twenty five and it was sort of

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Speaker 3: four pretty hellish months where I was unable to do

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Speaker 3: very much at all, and I was quite debilitated by

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Speaker 3: illness and dizziness, and I ended up sort of living

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Speaker 3: back with my parents for a period of time, and

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Speaker 3: then I ended up in a psychiatric hospital. So all

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Speaker 3: of that was pretty terrible. The good part was that

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Speaker 3: once I went to a psychiatric hospital, I was put

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Speaker 3: on medication and I started doing a whole lot of

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Speaker 3: therapy and that I'd never done before, and I very

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Speaker 3: quickly became a lot healthier, and I was able to

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Speaker 3: sort of function in a manner that was so much

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Speaker 3: more constructive and healthy than I'd ever been. So pretty

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Speaker 3: quickly after what I went through, I did tell people

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Speaker 3: what had happened. And it was about two years after

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Speaker 3: it happened that I actually wrote about it for the

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Speaker 3: first time, and I sent it off to Mia Friedman,

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Speaker 3: who at the time her website was still just a

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Speaker 3: blog mum of me, but it had quite a big readership,

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Speaker 3: and I sent it off to her and just said,

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Speaker 3: if you want to publish this anonymously, I'd be really

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Speaker 3: happy to share my story. And it felt quite scary

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Speaker 3: even without my name being attached to it. I was

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Speaker 3: really brutally honest about what had happened in that really yeah,

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Speaker 3: and it really struck a chord. So it sort of

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Speaker 3: had one hundred comments very quickly. And this is a

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Speaker 3: long time ago. We're talking twelve years ago, when you know,

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Speaker 3: there weren't comments galare on websites. And so that was

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Speaker 3: my first experience of writing about what had happened. And

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Speaker 3: then I did write more about it, and I spoke

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Speaker 3: about it more at different events and things like that,

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Speaker 3: and whenever I spoke about it or wrote about it,

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Speaker 3: I was always druck by the number of people who

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Speaker 3: connected with it. So fast forward a few years ago,

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Speaker 3: a publisher approached me and just said that she loved

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Speaker 3: the way I write and that she thinks she would

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Speaker 3: have really liked to work on a book with me.

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Speaker 3: And she said, what would you like to write a

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Speaker 3: book on? And I think she was actually probably expecting

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Speaker 3: me to say something around women, but I said to her, look,

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Speaker 3: I think if I'm going to write a book, I've

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Speaker 3: got to write about what happened to me. And so

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Speaker 3: that was how it came about, and so I ended

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Speaker 3: up writing the book. I started it just over ten

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Speaker 3: years after I'd had the breakdown, and so I had

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Speaker 3: the benefit of dis and hindsight, and I had written.

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Speaker 3: I had written quite a lot about what had happened

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Speaker 3: at the time, but I also had you know, my

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Speaker 3: mum had all these emails from between her and I,

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Speaker 3: so I had material I could look back on. But

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Speaker 3: I didn't find it difficult to write. I really enjoyed

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Speaker 3: the process of writing it. But yeah, that was how

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Speaker 3: it came about.

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Speaker 1: And so let's go back to the start a bit.

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Speaker 1: Let us explore that a bit. So tell us about

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Speaker 1: when you were nineteen and you were facing these health issues.

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Speaker 1: Tell us about your first of all, like the health

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Speaker 1: issues and your experience with the doctors you were facing.

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Speaker 3: So when I was in year twelve at school, So

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Speaker 3: I went to school in Brisbane, so I was seventeen.

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Speaker 3: In my final year of school, I started to have

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Speaker 3: my tummy was quite upset a lot of the time.

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Speaker 3: I started having cramps a lot. It was not particularly

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Speaker 3: pleasant and I sort of ignored it for a period

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Speaker 3: of time. I did go to the doctor at one

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Speaker 3: point and he sort of said, oh, look, it's probably

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Speaker 3: it's not uncommon. In year twelve. There's a lot of stress,

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Speaker 3: you know, it's your body's reaction to that. But then

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Speaker 3: after I at the end of my first year of UNI,

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Speaker 3: I sort of was having another set of physiological symptoms

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Speaker 3: but also that were abdomen related, but it was more

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Speaker 3: like intense, crazy period pain, but not necessarily when I

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Speaker 3: had my period, and my tummy would often of a

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Speaker 3: night completely blow up to look like I was almost

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Speaker 3: five months pregnant, and then I would just have the

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Speaker 3: most horrific cramping in it. Anyway, I realized I needed

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Speaker 3: to see someone, and I spoke to the GP and

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Speaker 3: she sort of said, look, I think you probably need

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Speaker 3: to go and see a gynocologist. And I was nineteen

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Speaker 3: and I hadn't ever seen a gynocologist. And I went

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Speaker 3: for the first appointment and the man was perfectly pleasant,

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Speaker 3: age but perfectly pleasant, and when I explained to him

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Speaker 3: my symptoms, he said, look, to me, it sounds like

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Speaker 3: you've probably got endometriosis. Will do an internal ultrasound and see,

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Speaker 3: but if that's what you have, which I think you do,

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Speaker 3: we'll then have to do some operations to cut the

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Speaker 3: tissue away. Now again, this was we're now talking. That

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Speaker 3: was almost twenty years ago, and endometriosis was not a

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Speaker 3: word I'd ever heard. I didn't know what that meant.

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Speaker 3: I didn't like the idea of having surgery to cut

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Speaker 3: anything away. But I went through the motions and he

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Speaker 3: did an internal ultrasound, which was, you know, vile as

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Speaker 3: these things are. And also I was young, so I

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Speaker 3: wasn't sort of yet. I mean, I've had to three

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Speaker 3: children now, so I know what it's like to lose

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Speaker 3: your dignity completely in a medical setting, but back then

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Speaker 3: it was all quite new, so I was quite afraid.

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Speaker 3: But he did the ultrasound and he sort of was

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Speaker 3: pointing out on the screen all these bitsiness pieces that

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Speaker 3: I had no idea what it meant. But he basically said, look,

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Speaker 3: you do have andrometriosis. It's everywhere, so we'll do some

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Speaker 3: surgery to cut it all away. Yeah, and those He

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Speaker 3: ended up doing three operations over five weeks. It was

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Speaker 3: really quite intense. My body horrific, you know, three general anesthetics.

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Speaker 3: It really knocked me around, and I was still young.

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Speaker 3: Mum came up to Brisbane to look after me, and

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Speaker 3: I had heaps of family support. All my friends were amazing,

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Speaker 3: but it was pretty brutal. And you know the other

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Speaker 3: thing was that I didn't particularly like having these symptoms

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Speaker 3: it certainly wasn't something I really wanted to talk about

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Speaker 3: with people, So I think that all made it quite

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Speaker 3: a lonely experience, even though I had lots of people

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Speaker 3: around me. But I really did feel like I was

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Speaker 3: sort of on my own, fighting this battle with my

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Speaker 3: body that I didn't really want to be fighting. And

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Speaker 3: then after I'd had all of those procedures, it was

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Speaker 3: about a month later that I was still having really

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Speaker 3: horrific stomach symptoms, and so then when we saw the GP,

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Speaker 3: she said, look, you have to go and see a

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Speaker 3: gastroentrologist now. And then fairly soon after that, I was

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Speaker 3: diagnosed with Crohn's disease, which again i'd never heard of

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Speaker 3: until I was being told that I had it. And

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Speaker 3: it's a inflammatory bowel disease. It's an autoimmune condition. It's

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Speaker 3: every bit as vile as it sounds, and it affects

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Speaker 3: people differently. You can have it in sort of varying

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Speaker 3: degrees of severity. There are people who end up having

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Speaker 3: to have their huge sections of their bow surgically removed

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Speaker 3: because of it. I was a pretty much case in

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Speaker 3: the middle. I was not I didn't ever have to

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Speaker 3: have surgery to have any of my bow removed, but

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Speaker 3: I did. It was pretty debilitating at different points, and

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Speaker 3: I was put on iminosuppressant drugs that in itself created

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Speaker 3: a whole raft of side effects. And I was sort

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Speaker 3: of having to have blood tests every There were periods

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Speaker 3: of time where I had to have a blood test

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Speaker 3: every week for three months or so. I felt a

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Speaker 3: little bit trapped in this medical black hole. But I

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Speaker 3: was studying. I was at Union at the time. I

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Speaker 3: was doing business and law, and I was really eager

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Speaker 3: to sort of keep up maintaining my normal existence. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and sort of hiding a little bit gnaoring it. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's funny because I did, because you were I always

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Speaker 3: went to my appointments, I always saw the doctors, I

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Speaker 3: took the medication, I did whatever I needed to do.

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Speaker 3: But I really did try to divide my life into

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Speaker 3: two parts, and that my medical health issues were in

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Speaker 3: one part that was ring fenced and that was just

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Speaker 3: my personal private battle that no one really needed to

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Speaker 3: know about, and then there was the rest of my life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you separated it in a way. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: tell us about you went to university, you graded, graduated university,

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Speaker 1: and then you started working in a commercial law firm

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Speaker 1: tell us about kind of because of these health issues,

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Speaker 1: what a day in you know, the workplace looked like.

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Speaker 3: So I moved to Sydney for my first full time

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Speaker 3: job when I graduated from UNI, and it was with

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Speaker 3: a big corporate law firm. I was doing their graduate program.

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Speaker 3: And I suppose that when I've been at UNI, I'd

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Speaker 3: always been able to. At UNI, you have got enough

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Speaker 3: autonomy that you can, I mean, aside from exams, and

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Speaker 3: you know, if you had a presentation, if you needed

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Speaker 3: to race out of a lecture theater, or you were

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Speaker 3: running late, no one really knew you could hide. When

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Speaker 3: I moved down to Sydney and started full time work,

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Speaker 3: I found it really difficult because my health issues I

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Speaker 3: couldn't hide them in the day, and I was working

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Speaker 3: really very long hours. And I was also I'd started

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Speaker 3: in an environment where you all know that these jobs

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Speaker 3: are very competitive, that they're hard to get, you know

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Speaker 3: that the standard expected of you is very high, and

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Speaker 3: I think I absorbed a lot of pressure and stress

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Speaker 3: that ended up sort of exacerbating the fact that I

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Speaker 3: already had fairly average health.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 3: Probably after about six months, my days at work looked

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Speaker 3: I was just forever needing to go to the bathroom.

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Speaker 3: If I was walking to work, it would take three

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Speaker 3: or four stops along the way before I could get

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Speaker 3: to work. And then I'd get to work and be

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Speaker 3: mortified by the three bathroom stops and would then sit

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Speaker 3: down at my desk and try to pretend that I

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Speaker 3: was perfectly fine. And you know, it sort of ended

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Speaker 3: up being a little bit of a very vicious cycle,

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Speaker 3: and I ended up my tummy became much more difficult

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Speaker 3: to manage. There were instances where I was in and

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Speaker 3: out of hospital, even if it was just for a

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Speaker 3: day or two days, or you know, they had to

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Speaker 3: do investigations. So I certainly wasn't thriving from a health perspective,

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Speaker 3: and I was just sort of doing the best I could.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't even imagine, because, like I was saying before

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Speaker 1: the interview, I've been in a law firm in.

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Speaker 2: The graduate position.

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Speaker 1: It's already such a press and stress in the day

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Speaker 1: to day task. You're expected to be and earlier, you're

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Speaker 1: expected to stay late, you're expected to say yes to

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Speaker 1: anything they want, And so I couldn't imagine, and I

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Speaker 1: definitely felt a lot of stress in that position, and

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Speaker 1: I couldn't imagine as well having those health issues on top.

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Speaker 2: So I, yeah, I could.

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Speaker 1: Imagine that being such a stressful and like you said,

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Speaker 1: like lonely part of your life. And so I want

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Speaker 1: to talk about perfectionism because you do talk about this

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Speaker 1: in the book and it's something I resonated with. And

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Speaker 1: you were saying, for example, at work, you never cut

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Speaker 1: yourself a break, like even if you took a sick day,

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Speaker 1: which was very necessary, it's not like you were taking

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Speaker 1: a you know, a fake sick day. You saw that

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Speaker 1: as a failure or an inability to cope. And I

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Speaker 1: even remember reading the book, like even the language that

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Speaker 1: you would use to kind of talk to yourself like

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Speaker 1: it was, it was very negative and you were very

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Speaker 1: hard on yourself. How do you think perfectionism contributed to

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Speaker 1: your underwing?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it contributed pretty significantly. And I didn't

368
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Speaker 3: really until I had my breakdown and then had cause

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Speaker 3: to sort of learn about all of these different things.

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Speaker 3: I had no idea that I thought, like a lot

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Speaker 3: of people, that perfectionism was just sort of the ultimate

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Speaker 3: humble brag. But you really, you just have got amazing

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Speaker 3: standards and you're like doing a great job, like.

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Speaker 1: You say in the interview, when you're like, oh, that's

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Speaker 1: my weakness, yeah, perfectionist.

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Speaker 3: Sorry, I've Yeah. Well, we all say that and we

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Speaker 3: all get the jobs because it's a known thing. But

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Speaker 3: what I came to learn was that perfectionism is actually

379
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Speaker 3: a very toxic condition, and where it becomes dangerous and

380
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,840
Speaker 3: or where it is toxic, is that you reduce the

381
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Speaker 3: world into black and white and either everything is absolutely

382
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Speaker 3: perfect or everything you were an absolute total failure. So

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Speaker 3: for me, illness was probably the most damaging. I think

384
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Speaker 3: I did probably the most damage to myself at applying

385
00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:11,520
Speaker 3: perfectionism to a chronic illness, because in my head, right

386
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Speaker 3: up until the point that I fell apart, I really

387
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,720
Speaker 3: did think that any day that I didn't feel well,

388
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Speaker 3: let alone a day where I needed to be in

389
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Speaker 3: hospital and have a procedure, I internalized that as being

390
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:30,360
Speaker 3: total failure, because in my head, I was either basically

391
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Speaker 3: a robot who could just go to work and have

392
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Speaker 3: absolutely no problems, or if I was a human being

393
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Speaker 3: with some sort of vulnerability to a medical condition, I

394
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Speaker 3: was a total failure. And I can see now in hindsight,

395
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Speaker 3: I learned that that's actually perfectionism, and it's quite a

396
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,360
Speaker 3: toxic thinking pattern. But I didn't know there was any

397
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Speaker 3: other option at that point. And because I was having

398
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Speaker 3: a chronic illness, it wasn't like I sort of had,

399
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 3: you know, three weeks where I had this terrible appendicitis

400
00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 3: and then they removed it and then I recovered and

401
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,920
Speaker 3: I was fine. I was in a condition. I was

402
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:05,439
Speaker 3: in a situation where I had illness every.

403
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Speaker 2: Day, it was ongoing.

404
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and so I think the compounding that over

405
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Speaker 3: time was awful for me.

406
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Speaker 1: I definitely, again keep saying resonate, but I resonate with

407
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Speaker 1: the feeling of the all or nothing and not really.

408
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Speaker 2: It's kind of like you're in this.

409
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Speaker 1: Like tunnel vision and you kind of lose sight of everything.

410
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:30,800
Speaker 1: And I love in the book, you have a quote

411
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Speaker 1: from Brene Brown, and I'll read out the quote for

412
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 1: you guys, because it's really good and it sums it up,

413
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Speaker 1: and it says perfectionism is a belief that if we

414
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Speaker 1: live perfect and act perfect, we can minimize the pain

415
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:47,439
Speaker 1: of blame, judgment, and shame. It's a twenty ton shield

416
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Speaker 1: that we lug around thinking it will protect us, when

417
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,760
Speaker 1: in fact it's a thing that is preventing us from flight.

418
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Speaker 1: So going off that, I love that you included that quote.

419
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Speaker 1: I actually hadn't heard it before. What advice would you

420
00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:06,560
Speaker 1: give someone who is maybe in that mindset of perfectionism?

421
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Speaker 3: I would say look for the nuance Because for me,

422
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 3: perfectionism in whichever realm I was talking about or thinking

423
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Speaker 3: about it was either I was absolutely perfect or total failure.

424
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Speaker 3: And what I had to come to grips with and

425
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Speaker 3: what I still do is recognizing when I'm being really

426
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Speaker 3: hard on myself or when there's is looking for the

427
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 3: nuance in that, like, so, am I a total failure?

428
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Speaker 3: Or am I just a human being who has got

429
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:39,240
Speaker 3: an illness on this particular day? You know? Am I?

430
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Speaker 3: If you think about it in terms of you know,

431
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,879
Speaker 3: exercise or eating or your friendships, like if you have

432
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 3: a fight with one person or you have you know,

433
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:52,160
Speaker 3: an issue at work on one particular day, if you're

434
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,800
Speaker 3: inclined to think that that is catastrophic, you know, or

435
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 3: if you skip exercise for a day and you're sort

436
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:00,480
Speaker 3: of in that mindset of thinking, oh my just I'm

437
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 3: a total failure because I didn't do that, look at

438
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,119
Speaker 3: it and say right, Am I a total failure or

439
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: did I just miss exercise for one day? Because I

440
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 3: think there is so much more gray than there is

441
00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 3: black and white. But it's really easy to sort of

442
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 3: unconsciously fall into the habit of thinking it's it's either

443
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,040
Speaker 3: everything or it's nothing.

444
00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: For me, it was like almost a bit of an

445
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: obsessive mindset, like it was very obsessive that I had

446
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,320
Speaker 1: to do things perfectly. And I think also something that

447
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: helped me is like doing something you know sixty or

448
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:36,119
Speaker 1: eighty percent getting it done. This is more of a

449
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:39,320
Speaker 1: practical sense of what you're doing work, handing it in

450
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 1: and then realizing sometimes it's better to just get it in,

451
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: get it done, and get onto the next thing.

452
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:44,800
Speaker 2: If that makes sense.

453
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:48,399
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean one of the things that I have

454
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:52,119
Speaker 3: said and a lot of people when they've wanted to

455
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 3: sign a copy of my book, one of the things

456
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,040
Speaker 3: I've often written is, you know, to remember that good

457
00:23:56,119 --> 00:24:00,280
Speaker 3: is better than perfect, because it is because even if

458
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:04,439
Speaker 3: you can achieve perfectionist standards for a short period of time,

459
00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:08,080
Speaker 3: ultimately it's never going to be the endgame. You cannot,

460
00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,879
Speaker 3: in anything, always be perfect. You won't. Good is so

461
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,960
Speaker 3: much better and being really you know, there was part

462
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:18,760
Speaker 3: of me that felt like saying that was some sort

463
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 3: of catastrophic condition, like if I don't do everything perfectly,

464
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:24,800
Speaker 3: the world will fall apart. But as soon as you

465
00:24:24,840 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 3: actually start doing it, you say, do you know what,

466
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:29,879
Speaker 3: I don't need to be an Olympic athlete level of

467
00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:33,520
Speaker 3: intensity for every single thing I do, I can you know,

468
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:35,199
Speaker 3: good is perfectly okay.

469
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: It's so true, and especially in the regards like, for example,

470
00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: this podcast. I personally have like a bit of a

471
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 1: speech impediment, so I never thought i'd start a podcast.

472
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 1: And I remember my first episode. I like re recorded

473
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:49,919
Speaker 1: it quite a few times because I wanted it to

474
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 1: be perfect, and then it kind of just got to

475
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: the point where I was like I just need to

476
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:54,399
Speaker 1: put it out there.

477
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:55,760
Speaker 2: I just need to start.

478
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: And now we're on, you know, over fifty episodes, and

479
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,520
Speaker 1: it's kind of like practice makes perfect, like not perfect,

480
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:05,679
Speaker 1: but you've just got to keep going, keep moving forward.

481
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,399
Speaker 1: And it is like, it's funny because a lot of

482
00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:13,200
Speaker 1: the things that I learned after my breakdown. I used

483
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 1: to think that there was things in life that you

484
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: couldn't change, you know, I didn't know there was any

485
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:20,399
Speaker 1: other way to think than the way I had and

486
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:24,919
Speaker 1: practice it those sorts of things. So practicing changing your

487
00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 1: perfectionist mindset is actually achievable. So the more you do it,

488
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 1: and you can start small, but just sort of scan

489
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,919
Speaker 1: your mind for the things that you might be inclined

490
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: to punish yourself for and look for the nuance in it.

491
00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,720
Speaker 1: So if you're saying that you've done something wrong or bad,

492
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:45,120
Speaker 1: or you've failed, take a minute to just be forensic

493
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,680
Speaker 1: about that and say, is this the whole story? Is

494
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,720
Speaker 1: there evidence to suggest that I might be overreacting here

495
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,920
Speaker 1: or that i'm And those sorts of exercises, the more

496
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: you do them, the more you can change your habits,

497
00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: and then you become more not beating yourself up for

498
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: everything that's not right.

499
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 2: You start forming the new habits, the new thoughts. Love that.

500
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,880
Speaker 2: Let's now talk about a burnout, so.

501
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:15,159
Speaker 1: Especially career burnout, So the listeners who may not have

502
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:18,199
Speaker 1: heard of it or know what it is, what is

503
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 1: your experience with burnout and how did it feel?

504
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, the way I would describe burnout is that you

505
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:31,159
Speaker 3: imagine what it's like if there's just bone on bone

506
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:36,360
Speaker 3: rubbing together. There's absolutely no cushioning of tendons or muscles

507
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 3: or flesh left there's nothing there, and or you know,

508
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 3: burnout actually thinking about a match that has burnt out,

509
00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:44,879
Speaker 3: or a candlewick that has totally burnt out. There's just

510
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: nothing there. And I think that I mean, as I've

511
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:53,000
Speaker 3: sort of explained, my first foray into full time work

512
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 3: was pretty difficult because of my physical condition and what

513
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 3: I then in hindsight learned was also my mental condition

514
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 3: on top of that, but it was also just the

515
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:05,719
Speaker 3: fact that I was working in a job where the

516
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 3: hours and demands were really really huge and I could

517
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 3: put one foot in front of the other for a

518
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 3: period of time. And I did the same thing at UNI.

519
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 3: You know, it wasn't I never took I didn't ever

520
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:21,119
Speaker 3: miss an assessment. I didn't ever apply for special consideration,

521
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 3: even though when I was at UNI I had my

522
00:27:23,119 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: health was pretty bad, and I think that compounded over time.

523
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 3: I couldn't go one hundred and fifty percent the whole time.

524
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 3: So I did burn out, and I did get to

525
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 3: a point where before I got really sick, I just

526
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 3: had absolutely no engine, like I had no energy. It

527
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 3: was as if no fuel nothing, and every morning when

528
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,679
Speaker 3: I got up. It was sort of a miracle that

529
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:48,159
Speaker 3: I could even get out of bed and have a

530
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:49,760
Speaker 3: shower and get my clothes and I get to work.

531
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:52,959
Speaker 3: At the time, I didn't know that, but in hindsight,

532
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 3: I just learned that I was operating on nothing.

533
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,439
Speaker 1: Hey guys, I'm quickly interrupting this episode because I I'm

534
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:06,000
Speaker 1: so excited. Naked Harvest has just launched not one, but

535
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,879
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536
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:12,080
Speaker 1: lime crush.

537
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 2: How good does that sound.

538
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 1: I'm personally all over the grape.

539
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 2: I'm obsessed.

540
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:17,560
Speaker 1: It smells like hubba.

541
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 2: Bubba and it tastes so good.

542
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:22,560
Speaker 1: If you're someone like me, and you care about what

543
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:25,280
Speaker 1: you're putting in your body, and you have some fitness

544
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 1: goals for twenty twenty, you need to get yourself some

545
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,560
Speaker 1: Naked Harvest natural pre workout. I'm sure you're sick of

546
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,400
Speaker 1: me talking about it, but this stuff literally.

547
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 2: Transformed my workouts.

548
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,360
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549
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:44,479
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550
00:28:44,640 --> 00:28:47,920
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551
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,760
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552
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 1: and strong, Join the NH game, and feel free to

553
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,520
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554
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 1: percent discount. Okay, let's get straight back into the episode.

555
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: I don't know if you agree, but kind of when

556
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 1: you're in that state, is it almost hard to realize

557
00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 1: you're in that state because you're just trying to Yeah,

558
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: like you said, put one foot in front of each other.

559
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, definitely. And I think it's the classic frog in

560
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:22,120
Speaker 3: boiling water scenario. So if you put a frog straight

561
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 3: into a pot of boiling water, they're going to jump

562
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 3: out feel a crazy amount of shock. But if the

563
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 3: frog is in the water to start with and then

564
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 3: you turn the water up, it just gradually gets hotter

565
00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 3: and hotter, and then when it's boiling, they don't even

566
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:38,400
Speaker 3: notice the extra shock. And I think that's what it's like,

567
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:41,800
Speaker 3: because if I woke up one day and I was

568
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 3: perfectly healthy and had a huge amount of energy, and

569
00:29:44,680 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 3: then the next day I woke up and felt like

570
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: I'd been over by a truck, I would be thinking, Oh,

571
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 3: what's happened? This doesn't feel right, But it happens gradually,

572
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,160
Speaker 3: so you don't have that jolt where you realize things

573
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,600
Speaker 3: about It's just you were climatized to a new standard,

574
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 3: and the longer it goes on, harder it becomes to

575
00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,120
Speaker 3: even recognize that this is not It felt like your

576
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 3: normal sustainable it did. It felt completely like my normal.

577
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,000
Speaker 3: One of the things that I would say to people

578
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 3: who might be experiencing burnout is if you're waking up

579
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 3: every day and life is feeling really difficult, probably something

580
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 3: needs to change. I was stuck in a place where

581
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,200
Speaker 3: I thought, I did know that life felt really difficult,

582
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,200
Speaker 3: but I sort of also thought maybe that was because

583
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,480
Speaker 3: I wasn't I was being My expectations of what a

584
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 3: career might be were too high. You know that maybe

585
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,880
Speaker 3: I was being indulgent to think that there could be more.

586
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,600
Speaker 3: But the truth is, my instinct was right. Something wasn't

587
00:30:44,640 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 3: working for me. It was really difficult, And I think

588
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,920
Speaker 3: that if anyone is in that place, it is always

589
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:55,840
Speaker 3: worth looking around and considering what you might be able

590
00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,640
Speaker 3: to do to change that up. And it doesn't have

591
00:30:58,720 --> 00:31:00,720
Speaker 3: to be as dramatic as falling up and ending up

592
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 3: in the psychiatric like I did. I mean, that's a

593
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,960
Speaker 3: pretty effective way of jolting the system. But I just

594
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 3: would want people to know they have permission to say

595
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,040
Speaker 3: if things are difficult, you don't have to stay there,

596
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: as in, you don't have to stay in that difficult

597
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 3: spot forget.

598
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:20,880
Speaker 1: I love what you said about giving yourself permission because

599
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 1: I remember when I worked corporate, and it's funny because

600
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,440
Speaker 1: I was quite stressed, I was quite intense, and again,

601
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:30,640
Speaker 1: it kind of just felt like my new normal because

602
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: I had done my law degree, gone straight into it.

603
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,120
Speaker 2: It kind of same as you.

604
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 1: And then me and my husband moved to the Gold

605
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: Coast and I started working from home.

606
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 2: And it's funny because people who knew.

607
00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,920
Speaker 1: Me when I worked corporate and lived near the city

608
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 1: and stuff, they then met me again and so saw

609
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,920
Speaker 1: me again. We're like, you're actually really chill, and I'm like, yeah,

610
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: this is actually me normal, and it just that person

611
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 1: felt like my normal. But again, like you said, every

612
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: single day it did feel like a struggle. But I

613
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 1: thought it was almost like, oh, this is what you do,

614
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:07,520
Speaker 1: this is what life is like.

615
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 2: And I had almost I think to be honest too,

616
00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:13,080
Speaker 2: I almost like leaned into it. I was like, yeah,

617
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:15,560
Speaker 2: you know, like I'm a law Brad, this is yeah.

618
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 2: You almost go like, this is what you do?

619
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, really, it's a right.

620
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,840
Speaker 1: And then I remember one day one hundred percent what

621
00:32:21,840 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: you said about the permission thing, and I just remember thinking.

622
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: Does it have to be this way? Does life have

623
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,160
Speaker 2: to feel like this? Because I feel like I'm drowning.

624
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:33,840
Speaker 1: And then I kind of just gave myself permission that, yeah,

625
00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: I did this six year law degree, but I don't

626
00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: have to use it right now. If I don't want to,

627
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,520
Speaker 1: I can, you know, go off and follow this other

628
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: thing that's shining over here. So I definitely love what

629
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 1: you said about that, definitely about giving yourself permission. Okay,

630
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:55,440
Speaker 1: so let's talk about your visit to the psychiatric hospital.

631
00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: Can you tell us about what that felt like, first

632
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: goal in and then kind of your experience there and

633
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:06,760
Speaker 1: the most valuable thing you learned during your time you

634
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 1: had that?

635
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,040
Speaker 2: I think you're in there for two weeks? Is that great?

636
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: So basically I ended up being admitted to a psychiatric

637
00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 3: hospital after I had spent four months at my parents' house.

638
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:22,240
Speaker 3: I was on leave without pay from the law firm.

639
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 3: Obviously I'd been sick, my crones had got worse. And worse.

640
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,240
Speaker 3: I'd done eighteen months and then one night I fell

641
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 3: over in my office with this vertigo attack, lost my balance,

642
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:33,680
Speaker 3: and that was sort of the beginning of the end

643
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 3: for me. That I ended up spending four months at

644
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 3: home because I was seeing every doctor, every health professional,

645
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 3: alternative medicine, anything to try and figure out what an

646
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 3: earth was going wrong with me. But I felt horrendous

647
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 3: and the crones I'd always been able to push through,

648
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,240
Speaker 3: but this dizziness and nausea I couldn't push through. And

649
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 3: so that's why I did end up at home with

650
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 3: Mum and Dad, unable to do anything, and I got

651
00:33:57,280 --> 00:34:01,960
Speaker 3: into a pretty bad state. And it was after four

652
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 3: months of that that a physician who was in his

653
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,640
Speaker 3: seventies basically said to me, look, what's happening to you

654
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 3: is real. These physical symptoms are real, but it's been

655
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 3: caused by stress. Because I'd had MRIs, I'd had every

656
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,560
Speaker 3: scan non to man, every blood test, I had done,

657
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,120
Speaker 3: all these neurological assessments, there was nothing physically that could

658
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:24,920
Speaker 3: explain why I had this horrendous vertigo. And when the

659
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 3: physician said that, he said, I think we need to

660
00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 3: talk about anxiety and I think you probably need to

661
00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,719
Speaker 3: spend some time in a psychiatric hospital. And when he

662
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,319
Speaker 3: said that, I felt relief. And that was quite a

663
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:41,040
Speaker 3: strange thing in itself, because four months earlier, if someone

664
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 3: had suggested I even need to see a psychiatrist, I

665
00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,600
Speaker 3: would have been pretty horrified. But I had got myself

666
00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,720
Speaker 3: to a point where I knew something was so wrong,

667
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 3: And when he said this, something finally made sense, and

668
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 3: I thought, maybe this is stress and anxiety and my

669
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 3: body can't cope. So I tell you that because I

670
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 3: think it's relevant to how my experience felt at the

671
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,880
Speaker 3: psychiatr hospital. I think that if I'd gone to a

672
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,360
Speaker 3: psychiatry hospital the day after that very first vertigo attack,

673
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 3: I don't think I would have had the results I

674
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 3: had after spending four months desperately looking for an answer,

675
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 3: because I was in the mindset where I really knew

676
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:20,879
Speaker 3: something had to change fundamentally. Even with that, though, even

677
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 3: with this sort of sense of relief and hope that

678
00:35:22,840 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 3: maybe this was the right place to go, arriving at

679
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 3: the hospital was really confronting. I went to a clinic

680
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:33,880
Speaker 3: near Kurumban on the Gold Coast, and my parents live

681
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 3: in northern New South Wales, so they drove me there.

682
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 3: It's about an hour and a half. I kept having

683
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 3: to get Dad to pull over on the car right

684
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 3: up there because I just felt like I was going

685
00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 3: to be sick. The whole time. I was really scared.

686
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 3: And when we arrived, I mean, it's just it's just

687
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,319
Speaker 3: not on anyone's buck at least. I don't think to

688
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 3: be driven to a psychiat to hospital by your parents

689
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: to be admitted. It's just certainly wasn't on mind, not

690
00:35:57,719 --> 00:35:59,719
Speaker 3: when I was you know, I was twenty five at

691
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 3: the time. It wasn't where I'd expected to be. And

692
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 3: then when I first went inside the waiting room, it's,

693
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,480
Speaker 3: you know, it's all pretty sad. Everyone there is pretty

694
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 3: much having the worst day of their life, even if

695
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 3: whether they were the person like me being admitted or

696
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,400
Speaker 3: whether they were admitting someone they loved. And the facility

697
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,439
Speaker 3: that I was at, it's a private hospital, but it's

698
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 3: not glamorous. It is like no frills, very sad looking building,

699
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 3: nothing luxurious about it. And I only say that because

700
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 3: sometimes I think you say private hospital, people might think

701
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 3: it's like some sort of glamorous retreat. This was not so.

702
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 3: But there were people there with there were two wings

703
00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: either mood disorders, which I was in, so that was

704
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 3: people with depression or anxiety or bipolar, and then there

705
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 3: was the other wing was for drug and alcohol addictions.

706
00:36:47,480 --> 00:36:50,560
Speaker 3: So there was some mixture in the ages and sort

707
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,280
Speaker 3: of physical states of the people that were all being admitted,

708
00:36:54,239 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 3: and you know, it was all quite surreal, and I

709
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 3: think to get through that in my head, I sort

710
00:36:57,880 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 3: of just was watching it as if it wasn't really

711
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 3: happening to me. I kind of disassociated a little bit.

712
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 3: I was just thinking, this is all very interesting. But

713
00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 3: then I ended up sharing a room with this lovely woman, Sue,

714
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 3: who was in her early fifties and her two adult

715
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,879
Speaker 3: daughters were admitting her and she'd had breast cancer. She'd

716
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,600
Speaker 3: been diagnosed with breast cancer two years earlier, and after

717
00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,839
Speaker 3: having surgery and then chemo and radiation, her physical health

718
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 3: had just really deteriorated to a point where she couldn't

719
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:30,640
Speaker 3: really function very well. But then she also had this

720
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 3: anxiety come in, and then it was very difficult to

721
00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:38,239
Speaker 3: know where the physical stopped and the mental started. So

722
00:37:38,280 --> 00:37:40,680
Speaker 3: even though Sue and I were in quite different stages,

723
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 3: we had quite a similar story. In that we both

724
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:50,680
Speaker 3: lost our physical health and then simultaneously lost a totally

725
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: lost balance of mental health. And so having Sue with

726
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,800
Speaker 3: me in the room was really lovely because it felt

727
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 3: safe and it felt like she was my you know,

728
00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:05,479
Speaker 3: we had each other yep. And from my understanding, there's

729
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 3: no huge scientific process that they go through about who's

730
00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 3: in a room with each other. But I always felt

731
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 3: I've sort of from the minute I met Sue that

732
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 3: we were there at the same time. I just thought, yes,

733
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:18,399
Speaker 3: I can do this because I've got a person here

734
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 3: who I felt safe with. And I also you know,

735
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 3: the funny thing was when Sue and I first chatted

736
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 3: about what had happened and why we were there, my

737
00:38:26,880 --> 00:38:30,000
Speaker 3: first instinct was to I had so much sympathy for her.

738
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,440
Speaker 3: She felt so guilty to her children for putting them

739
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 3: through this, and she felt so guilty for not being

740
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,479
Speaker 3: able to cope, which were the things I felt as well.

741
00:38:39,520 --> 00:38:41,440
Speaker 3: You know, I felt guilty that my parents had worked

742
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 3: so hard to give me this amazing education and opportunity

743
00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 3: to go to UNI, and I was somehow blowing it.

744
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 3: But listening to Sue made me really reassess that and think,

745
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,560
Speaker 3: do you know what, I'm not doing this to make

746
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:59,440
Speaker 3: anyone's life difficult, like I'm not choosing this. But it

747
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,680
Speaker 3: was really it was actually kind of seeing my own

748
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 3: experience reflected in Sue that for the first time I

749
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 3: was able to offer myself sympathy and empathy to her. Yeah, exactly,

750
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 3: I'd met her for three minutes and I felt so

751
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:15,840
Speaker 3: much sympathy for her and wanted to reassure her that

752
00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:17,919
Speaker 3: she had nothing to feel guilty about. And it did

753
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 3: make me think, for the first time in my life,

754
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,040
Speaker 3: maybe I need to extend that sort of sympathy and

755
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:30,240
Speaker 3: emotion to myself. And so a couple of the things

756
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:34,320
Speaker 3: that were incredibly valuable about being at rehabit that was

757
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,160
Speaker 3: probably the biggest one was that offering myself the sort

758
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 3: of same kindness instead of judgment and almost hate. You know,

759
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 3: that was a huge thing for me because I realized

760
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:49,239
Speaker 3: that I had been so unkind to myself for so

761
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 3: long and it had altered, really it had broken me.

762
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,799
Speaker 3: I also learned that medication, if you need medication, is

763
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,279
Speaker 3: very good. I was put on medication almost as soon

764
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 3: as I got there, and I didn't sort of, you know,

765
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:06,840
Speaker 3: go to sleep on the Sunday night and wake up

766
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 3: on the Monday feeling amazing. But within a week I

767
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,080
Speaker 3: did feel different. And I've stayed on the medication the

768
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,600
Speaker 3: whole time, and I have not had another episode of

769
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,960
Speaker 3: mental illness where I've needed to sort of go to

770
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 3: hospital or anything like that. But I realized that medication

771
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,439
Speaker 3: is very helpful if you have anxiety like I did.

772
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,799
Speaker 3: And I also learned that there is there are professionals,

773
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 3: you know. I worked with a psychologist every single day

774
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:37,400
Speaker 3: and we did, you know, cognitive behavioral therapy. We did

775
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 3: all these practical exercises, and it just made me realize

776
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 3: that there were things I could change. I had sort

777
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:47,480
Speaker 3: of in my head thought, how would talking about anything

778
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,880
Speaker 3: help how I feel? But the truth is it does

779
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:54,120
Speaker 3: because you don't just talk about nothing. You've got a

780
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:58,120
Speaker 3: professional who guides you through a process of interrogating why

781
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 3: is this your immediate mentor response to yourself when you're sick.

782
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,719
Speaker 3: It's like, because what else would I say? So, well,

783
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 3: maybe you could say, Georgie, this is unfortunate that you're

784
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 3: feeling really sick, but that's what's happening, and you've got

785
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,360
Speaker 3: to just look after yourself. But those sorts of things.

786
00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:16,680
Speaker 3: That was a huge, total paradigm shift for me. So

787
00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 3: I would say the sort of the power of medication,

788
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:24,120
Speaker 3: the power of professional help, and the power of kindness

789
00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:27,840
Speaker 3: to yourself are probably the biggest lessons I learned.

790
00:41:28,520 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: That's amazing. Thank you so much for sharing that with us.

791
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: My Plato, And so let's talk about what it was

792
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:36,279
Speaker 1: like after rehab. So, something that I loved in the

793
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,719
Speaker 1: book was you said that you started working out David

794
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: Jones and then you went into journalism. But something I

795
00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:45,440
Speaker 1: love that you touched on is you said the whole

796
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 1: experience for going to work at David Jones was actually

797
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,759
Speaker 1: one of the best things you could do. And you

798
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,480
Speaker 1: kind of explained that, you know, going from this corporate

799
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: law degree, you could understand how people might have almost

800
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:00,239
Speaker 1: a bit of an ego going to a different French

801
00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 1: sort of job where didn't have that pressure of stress

802
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: or anything like that. But tell us a little bit

803
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 1: about that and why you thought it was actually such

804
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: a good step.

805
00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:14,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, I think one of the critical things I

806
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,200
Speaker 3: learned in rehab was that you know that I had

807
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 3: been stuck in that sort of paradigm of perfectionism and

808
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: I was very reliant on external benchmarks, validation to validate myself,

809
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 3: and basically my self worth was attached to those things.

810
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,760
Speaker 3: So working in a big corporate firm ticked a box

811
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 3: that clearly meant that I was successful, because that was

812
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:42,280
Speaker 3: a good job in Comma's good job. And I really

813
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:46,360
Speaker 3: did realize that, actually, my value as a human being

814
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 3: isn't dependent upon the job I have. It's dependent upon

815
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 3: who I am and how I live and what I

816
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,080
Speaker 3: do in a day and the friend I am, or

817
00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:58,120
Speaker 3: the girlfriend that I am, or the daughter. You know,

818
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 3: it's so much more than just a job. And it

819
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 3: was sort of coming to that realization that actually, and

820
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 3: also that there was not a job in the world

821
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,759
Speaker 3: that was worth my health for So after rehab, I

822
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,520
Speaker 3: resigned from the law firm. I hadn't been there for

823
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 3: a few months, but I basically just said, look, and

824
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 3: I was really honest with them, and I said, this

825
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 3: is what's happened. I right now can only do a

826
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 3: job where I can look after my physical health and

827
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: my mental health, and at the moment, I can't do

828
00:43:20,640 --> 00:43:24,120
Speaker 3: that in corporate law. So I resigned, but I had

829
00:43:24,160 --> 00:43:26,720
Speaker 3: sort of got physically a little bit back on my feet,

830
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 3: and so I moved back to Sydney. One of my

831
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,440
Speaker 3: relatives owns a fashion business and it was because of

832
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 3: that that I got a job at David Jones selling clothes.

833
00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 3: And really, ultimately what I needed was to sort of

834
00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:41,760
Speaker 3: gradually re enter the world. But I wasn't yet ready

835
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,400
Speaker 3: to commit to full time work, and so David Jones

836
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:47,040
Speaker 3: was perfect because it was casual hours, the shifts were

837
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 3: different every week, and I started seeing a psychologist as

838
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: soon as I got back to Sydney that we'd organize

839
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,560
Speaker 3: through the clinic. That set me up with a woman

840
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,120
Speaker 3: down here who I absolutely adored, So I was seeing

841
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 3: her every week. I was really taking care of myself,

842
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 3: you know, actually, and I loved it. I was walking

843
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 3: a lot, and swimming a lot, and doing yoga, and

844
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:11,080
Speaker 3: having spent four months unable to do anything, the thrill

845
00:44:11,320 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 3: of just going for a swim was amazing and I

846
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:18,279
Speaker 3: loved it. So I did have this highly charged appreciation

847
00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 3: I think of the whole world. And the thing I

848
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:23,800
Speaker 3: loved about going to work was it felt so simple,

849
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 3: you know. I would hop on the bus or go

850
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: into the city. I would do my shift. In my break,

851
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 3: I might go downstairs with a book or I ended

852
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:32,960
Speaker 3: up spending quite a lot of money at either the

853
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 3: David Jones food hall or buying clothes. So it wasn't

854
00:44:35,440 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 3: like an economically great arrangement, but it was just such

855
00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:43,480
Speaker 3: a lovely experience. And I knew that all that mattered

856
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 3: was that I was living again and that I was

857
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,440
Speaker 3: taking care of myself. And so I ended up doing

858
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,840
Speaker 3: that for about six months before I felt ready to

859
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 3: kind of re enter full time work. But it was

860
00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 3: just such a lovely break from you know, work didn't

861
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 3: need to be this incredibly stressful, awful, all consuming thing.

862
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:06,840
Speaker 3: It could just be a place I went to for

863
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 3: a certain number of hours every week.

864
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 2: I love that.

865
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: And then you also then went on to do journalism,

866
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,080
Speaker 1: and like you said at the start, you do all

867
00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 1: these things, and would you say that journalism is very

868
00:45:19,840 --> 00:45:20,760
Speaker 1: much a passion.

869
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 3: Yes. The business degree that I did was a communications degree,

870
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 3: so I didn't do journalism, but I did communications because

871
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:31,440
Speaker 3: I had actually always wanted to be a journalist. But

872
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 3: at UNI, I did law and communications, and I was

873
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 3: actually much better at law than I was at communications,

874
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:39,520
Speaker 3: and I found law a lot easier. And so it

875
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,879
Speaker 3: sort of happened that that sort of made me think

876
00:45:42,920 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 3: in my head or maybe I should consider law because

877
00:45:44,960 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 3: it's probably easier to get a job. And then when

878
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 3: I did get I got clerkships in the corporate firms,

879
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 3: and then I got a graduate offer, so it sort

880
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:53,880
Speaker 3: of seemed like an easier path. So I finished up

881
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:55,400
Speaker 3: at the law firm. I was working at David Jones,

882
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:57,800
Speaker 3: and when it was time for me to I was

883
00:45:57,840 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 3: in a headspace that I was ready to commit to

884
00:45:59,600 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 3: full time work again. I started looking around and journalism

885
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:05,799
Speaker 3: was definitely on my radar because it was something that

886
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 3: I'd always wanted to do, and I actually had even

887
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 3: thought about maybe going to UTS and doing a master's

888
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 3: of journalism or something like that. But I ended up

889
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,279
Speaker 3: a friend sort of called me one afternoon and he

890
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:20,879
Speaker 3: was like, BTW magazine is advertising for researchers and they

891
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:23,080
Speaker 3: they're going to employ six people on a three month

892
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:26,600
Speaker 3: contract to help compile the Rich two hundred, so the

893
00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:30,080
Speaker 3: list of the richest two hundred people in Australia. And

894
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: it said, you know, you'll be working alongside journalists, you'd

895
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 3: be in the newsroom, and I just thought, this is

896
00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 3: a perfect stepping stone for me. I'm going to apply

897
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 3: for one of these, and they wanted people who were

898
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:42,920
Speaker 3: either current business students or recent business graduates. And I thought, well, look,

899
00:46:42,960 --> 00:46:45,840
Speaker 3: I've got a business degree, and so I applied for

900
00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:49,080
Speaker 3: that and I got one. And on the first day,

901
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:52,399
Speaker 3: the new editor in chief took us, the researchers out

902
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:54,719
Speaker 3: for coffee and he sort of asked us our stories,

903
00:46:54,880 --> 00:46:57,920
Speaker 3: and I said to him, look, I'm a qualified lawyer.

904
00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 3: I didn't say I've just been at a psychat hospital

905
00:47:00,480 --> 00:47:02,399
Speaker 3: and had a total melt down, but I did say,

906
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:04,080
Speaker 3: you know, I've been qualified as a lawyer, but I'm

907
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:07,360
Speaker 3: having a career change. I've always loved journalism, and I

908
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,320
Speaker 3: thought this would be a great position, and he was lovely,

909
00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:12,880
Speaker 3: and I didn't really know whether he would take that

910
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 3: seriously or not. But I spent the next few weeks

911
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 3: sitting between two journalists and I just absolutely could not

912
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 3: believe my luck that I was sitting there. You know,

913
00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 3: they would ring people and ask all the questions that

914
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 3: I would want to ask people. They'd go out and

915
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 3: have lunch with people and do all these interviews, and

916
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:29,239
Speaker 3: I just thought this was the most magical place I'd

917
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 3: ever been in my life. And then the editor in

918
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 3: chief came over one afternoon and he said, you know,

919
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,000
Speaker 3: were you serious when you said you'd consider a career

920
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 3: in journalism? And I said, so serious. I love this place.

921
00:47:40,239 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 3: And he sent me a few small writing tasks and

922
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 3: then eventually I had an interview with the editor of

923
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,480
Speaker 3: the Financial Review and they put me on the graduate

924
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:55,000
Speaker 3: on their trainee program for and I became a legal

925
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,479
Speaker 3: reporter for be Able to be out after the three

926
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 3: months was up of the research. The thing that I

927
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 3: loved was that BLW wasn't like a no stress environment.

928
00:48:06,239 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 3: It wasn't like I turned up and there was you know,

929
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 3: we had weekly deadlines, so it wasn't as stressful as

930
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 3: the newspaper, but we still there was lots of work

931
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 3: to do. There was a lot happening, So it wasn't

932
00:48:15,239 --> 00:48:18,279
Speaker 3: a stress free environment. But I absolutely loved it and

933
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 3: I didn't find it stressful. I didn't feel sick when

934
00:48:22,239 --> 00:48:26,279
Speaker 3: I was there, and I just absolutely loved it. And

935
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 3: I realized then that you know, and this is where

936
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:33,680
Speaker 3: relativity it's so hard to know. So what I realized

937
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 3: was that work didn't need to be really really stressful,

938
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 3: and it didn't need to feel like every single day

939
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 3: you were pushing struggle struggle up a hill. You know

940
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:49,640
Speaker 3: it was. I loved it, and I knew then there

941
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:52,120
Speaker 3: was this there was an alignment between my sort of

942
00:48:52,160 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: interest and skill and passion, and it made work so

943
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:57,480
Speaker 3: much easier.

944
00:48:58,600 --> 00:48:59,400
Speaker 2: I love that.

945
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,800
Speaker 1: And obviously that was such a journey to even find

946
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:07,120
Speaker 1: that interest, and you kind of just went for something

947
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: and got a step in the door and then did that.

948
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 1: And so I think that's really amazing too, because you

949
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 1: know it's really you think, Okay, I've finished high school,

950
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: I'll pick this career, that I'll be in it for

951
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:23,080
Speaker 1: the rest of my life, and it's just not like that.

952
00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 1: I think sometimes we can be super hard on ourselves

953
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: that it should be like that, whereas it's just not.

954
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:30,400
Speaker 2: So I love that.

955
00:49:31,280 --> 00:49:33,680
Speaker 1: I want to ask you a couple of last questions

956
00:49:33,680 --> 00:49:36,400
Speaker 1: to wrap it up. So at the start, you've explained

957
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 1: that you have three young daughters. Let's talk about you working,

958
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 1: doing all the things, like you said, having a family.

959
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:52,600
Speaker 1: Do you struggle now with anxiety and stress and balancing,

960
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 1: and what are your sort of tips for people that

961
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:56,640
Speaker 1: are in the same position.

962
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 3: For me, managing anxiety and yes, is going to be

963
00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 3: a work in progress. For the rest of my life.

964
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 3: So I am wired towards anxiety. I'm still an excellent warrior.

965
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 3: That's one of my key strengths. I can and will

966
00:50:14,239 --> 00:50:17,399
Speaker 3: worry about all sorts of things. But when I had

967
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,520
Speaker 3: my breakdown, I guess the way I look at my

968
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 3: recovery is that I set about building infrastructure for myself

969
00:50:25,520 --> 00:50:29,879
Speaker 3: to cope, and that meant things like having really good

970
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 3: thinking patterns where I could influence that, and staying on

971
00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,680
Speaker 3: medication and seeking professional help when I needed it, being

972
00:50:37,719 --> 00:50:42,120
Speaker 3: really conscious of my physical state. So after I came

973
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,480
Speaker 3: out of rehab, within a couple of months, virtually all

974
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 3: of my Cron's symptoms disappeared, which is not uncommon for

975
00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 3: some of the medication that I was put on. The

976
00:50:53,760 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 3: science isn't clear, but there's something to be said for

977
00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 3: calming the nervous system down and then that having a

978
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:02,799
Speaker 3: positive impact on crime's disease, and that appears to have

979
00:51:02,840 --> 00:51:05,879
Speaker 3: happened for me. So I started to enjoy a better

980
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:08,200
Speaker 3: version of physical health than I sort of ever had,

981
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 3: which then also meant maintaining my mental health was a

982
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,720
Speaker 3: lot easier than it had been. I will always remain

983
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 3: vigilant about my mental health. So if I feel like

984
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 3: things are getting I still Obviously my life now is

985
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,759
Speaker 3: actually a lot more stressful than it probably ever has been,

986
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:29,520
Speaker 3: just in terms of having three kids, having the commitments

987
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:32,480
Speaker 3: that I do, having a husband who's got a very

988
00:51:32,560 --> 00:51:36,839
Speaker 3: very busy and demanding career. But I'm very good at

989
00:51:36,880 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 3: checking in with myself and knowing when things are feeling.

990
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:42,640
Speaker 3: You know, is this just a stressful three days or

991
00:51:42,760 --> 00:51:45,320
Speaker 3: is this something bigger than that? And I'm not coping,

992
00:51:45,680 --> 00:51:47,879
Speaker 3: And whenever I feel like it's bigger than just something

993
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 3: that's happening over two or three days, I start to

994
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:54,520
Speaker 3: look at seeking help I find that really helps me

995
00:51:55,640 --> 00:51:59,040
Speaker 3: and making sure I do those the things that you know,

996
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:00,960
Speaker 3: if we do have a really stressful period of time,

997
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,920
Speaker 3: like last year when my book launched, we had a

998
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 3: couple of things happen all in quick succession that we

999
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,680
Speaker 3: couldn't change. You know, my husband had a huge exam

1000
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 3: five days after my book was being published. There were

1001
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,959
Speaker 3: all these things in the diary, and you know, being

1002
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 3: really conscious of the fact this is going to be

1003
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 3: a really intense period of time. I'm going to have

1004
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:21,520
Speaker 3: to sleep well, I'm going to have to eat well,

1005
00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 3: all those little things and also recognizing, Okay, this isn't forever.

1006
00:52:25,880 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 3: This is not going to be my physical state of

1007
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:29,800
Speaker 3: stress for the next five years. It's just this is

1008
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:32,680
Speaker 3: going to be a super super busy six weeks. So

1009
00:52:32,719 --> 00:52:36,200
Speaker 3: I guess being really mindful and conscious of how I'm

1010
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,640
Speaker 3: feeling and why I'm feeling that way is something that

1011
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:43,920
Speaker 3: I do every day that helps me maintain the intensity.

1012
00:52:43,960 --> 00:52:44,480
Speaker 3: I suppose.

1013
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. It's kind of like the whole

1014
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:52,320
Speaker 1: you know this, it's this season. Yeah yeah, making sure

1015
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 1: you get help. I personally see a psychologist and it

1016
00:52:55,800 --> 00:52:56,919
Speaker 1: was like the best thing I ever done.

1017
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 3: So yeah, they're amazing, you know. And I still, even

1018
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 3: as someone who has personally had the benefit from that,

1019
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,600
Speaker 3: so many times, I still in my head think, oh

1020
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:08,760
Speaker 3: should I book that appointment?

1021
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:10,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do it.

1022
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:12,000
Speaker 3: Then you look the appointment, you come out, and you think, oh,

1023
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,200
Speaker 3: my goodness, I'm so glad I did that.

1024
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, thank you so much for sharing. One last

1025
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:20,440
Speaker 1: question before you go. So something I ask all the guests,

1026
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,719
Speaker 1: and I guess for you, it would be when you're

1027
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:27,680
Speaker 1: writing and feeling that creativity, is there something that you do,

1028
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,719
Speaker 1: like a ritual or something that gets you creative and

1029
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:34,319
Speaker 1: gets you inspired or what do you do to find

1030
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:36,600
Speaker 1: motivation to write or feel inspired?

1031
00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:41,719
Speaker 3: I consider myself very, very lucky because I do have

1032
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,160
Speaker 3: a career in journalism where I get to write about

1033
00:53:45,160 --> 00:53:48,880
Speaker 3: the stuff that genuinely gives me like I have a

1034
00:53:48,880 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 3: fire in my belly. I want things to be different

1035
00:53:51,640 --> 00:53:53,719
Speaker 3: for families in Australia. I want things to be better

1036
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 3: for women in Australia, and so I find it a

1037
00:53:57,440 --> 00:53:59,279
Speaker 3: lot of the time it's really easy for me to

1038
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:03,480
Speaker 3: tap into inspiration because the things I care about deeply

1039
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,239
Speaker 3: without even like, you know, it's not an effort for

1040
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 3: me to try and care about these issues I get

1041
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 3: to write about. And so that means I very rarely

1042
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 3: sit down and don't feel inspired by something to write about.

1043
00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:21,040
Speaker 3: And I guess that's where being aligned with your purpose helps.

1044
00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:24,240
Speaker 3: And for me, I feel like that happened not by accident,

1045
00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:27,120
Speaker 3: but it's been a little bit of accident and a

1046
00:54:27,160 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 3: little bit of design that I've ended up in a

1047
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:31,799
Speaker 3: place where I don't have to struggle for inspiration.

1048
00:54:32,680 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 2: No, I love that it's perfect.

1049
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: And so where can the listeners find you and your whack?

1050
00:54:39,239 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 3: They can find me. So my book breaking Badly is

1051
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 3: available at all good bookstores and online at book Topia

1052
00:54:45,440 --> 00:54:47,319
Speaker 3: if you want. I also did record the audiobook at

1053
00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,520
Speaker 3: the end of last year, so that's available too if

1054
00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:49,920
Speaker 3: you like.

1055
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1056
00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, see, I don't do audio books.

1057
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:55,440
Speaker 2: I love audio books. I're my favorite.

1058
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,600
Speaker 1: I love listening, especially when the author reads them. It's

1059
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,879
Speaker 1: really I find it very I don't know, yeah, very good.

1060
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:04,439
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well, I've heard that from a lot of people,

1061
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:07,200
Speaker 3: so I'm glad I did that. I am also pretty

1062
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:10,520
Speaker 3: active on Twitter. My handle is Georgie Dent. I've got

1063
00:55:10,520 --> 00:55:13,160
Speaker 3: a Facebook page. I write for Women's Gender, I write

1064
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,239
Speaker 3: for Murray Claire and I write for the Sydney Morning

1065
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:17,160
Speaker 3: Herald on a Sunday.

1066
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:20,960
Speaker 1: Amazing Grace will put all those details in the show notes,

1067
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:22,680
Speaker 1: so make sure you check that out.

1068
00:55:22,719 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 2: But thank you so much for your time.

1069
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 3: This has been amazing, Georgie, thanks so much for having me.

1070
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:33,719
Speaker 1: Hey guys, and welcome to another episode of the Rise

1071
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:38,680
Speaker 1: and Conquer Podcast. Today's guest is author and journalist Georgie Dent.

1072
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:42,560
Speaker 1: At age twenty four, Georgie Dent at the world at

1073
00:55:42,600 --> 00:55:46,840
Speaker 1: her feet. Also, it seemed she graduated university with flying colors,

1074
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:49,959
Speaker 1: landed a job at a corporate law firm and moved

1075
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:54,000
Speaker 1: in with her boyfriend. Everything looked picture perfect and she

1076
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:57,520
Speaker 1: had no reason to break, but she did. Within a year,

1077
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:01,200
Speaker 1: Georgie was unemployed, back living with her parents, and suffering

1078
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:05,920
Speaker 1: such crippling anxiety that she ended up in a psychiatric hospital.

1079
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 1: Fast forward to today, and Georgie has three beautiful girls.

1080
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:12,600
Speaker 1: That boyfriend is now her husband, and now she is

1081
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,800
Speaker 1: a journalist and author. Georgie wrote her breakdown in slow

1082
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,760
Speaker 1: motion and how she rebuilt her life in her book

1083
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: Breaking Badly. Her story provides an inspiring and raw recount

1084
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:27,600
Speaker 1: that proves that not only is recovery from a mental

1085
00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 1: health disorder possible, but so is rebuilding a beautiful life

1086
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:35,400
Speaker 1: with a fulfilling career and loving family. Georgie is warm

1087
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: and so clever beyond words. I was so grateful she

1088
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,759
Speaker 1: invited us into her home to record this episode, and

1089
00:56:42,000 --> 00:56:45,200
Speaker 1: I am so grateful to listen to her story and

1090
00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:48,840
Speaker 1: now share it with you. And that's a wrap on

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00:56:48,880 --> 00:56:51,360
Speaker 1: another episode of the Rise and Conquered podcast.

1092
00:56:51,680 --> 00:56:52,520
Speaker 2: I hope you got.

1093
00:56:52,320 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: Something valuable from it, and I want to say.

1094
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:56,160
Speaker 2: A big thank you for tuning in.

1095
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:59,479
Speaker 1: I really really do appreciate it. If you're craving more

1096
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:02,719
Speaker 1: than don't, I've got you sorted. We have our very

1097
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 1: own Rise and Conquer Community Facebook group where hundreds of

1098
00:57:06,760 --> 00:57:11,160
Speaker 1: like minded women joined to share in on stories, ask advice,

1099
00:57:11,320 --> 00:57:12,640
Speaker 1: and everything in between.

1100
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:14,319
Speaker 2: I'd love for you to join us.

1101
00:57:14,520 --> 00:57:18,200
Speaker 1: Just search Rise and Conquer Podcast Community or find the

1102
00:57:18,240 --> 00:57:21,000
Speaker 1: link in the show notes. And if you loved listening

1103
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:23,920
Speaker 1: as much as I loved recording this episode, then please

1104
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 1: subscribe and leave a review. It really helps us out.

1105
00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: And if you think of anyone who would benefit or

1106
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: enjoy this episode, please share it with them. You can

1107
00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:38,920
Speaker 1: also find more on Instagram at risinconcor dot podcast and

1108
00:57:39,040 --> 00:57:43,040
Speaker 1: more from me your hosts at Georgie Stevenson. Once again, guys,

1109
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: thank you so much for tuning in. This is a

1110
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:49,440
Speaker 1: totally independent podcast, so we really do appreciate every bit

1111
00:57:49,480 --> 00:57:52,080
Speaker 1: of support. Hope you guys have an amazing day or

1112
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,600
Speaker 1: night whenever you're listening, and I'll talk to you soon.

1113
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 1: By contain by Contay shanty.

1114
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,479
Speaker 3: Put. I'll starting off