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Speaker 1: Well, a report in the paper by Harry Brill about

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory government spending well, spending more than three thousand,

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Speaker 1: six hundred dollars a day to keep just one youth

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Speaker 1: offender in prison. That's what a new report's found with

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Speaker 1: research one research expert slamming the nation's leaders as failing

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Speaker 1: at early intervention. So last week, the Productivity Commission released

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Speaker 1: its Government Services twenty twenty five report, which showed the

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Speaker 1: state by state cost of locking up youth between twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three and twenty four. Now the daily average of

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Speaker 1: forty six kids behind bars and government expenditure of sixty

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Speaker 1: one million dollars. So that means the territory's cost per

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Speaker 1: detainee per day is three thousand, six hundred and four dollars. Now,

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Speaker 1: joining us on the line is IPA research fellow, Mia Shields.

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Speaker 1: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Mia, Good morning Katie, thanks for having me here.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your time. Now, Mia, how

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Speaker 1: does the Northern Territory compare to other states in terms

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Speaker 1: of the costs of having young people in detention?

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Speaker 2: So, as you said, Katie, what our reports found is

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Speaker 2: that the Northern Territory government is spending sixty one million

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Speaker 2: dollars per year on US detention. But what the real

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Speaker 2: concern here is that violent crime in the Northern Territory

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Speaker 2: is out of control. There is a real law and

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Speaker 2: order issue that is far worse than other states and

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Speaker 2: territories in the country. So violent crime, violent youth crime

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Speaker 2: now makes up almost fifty percent of all youth offenders. However,

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Speaker 2: use detention centers in the Northern Territory are actually only

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Speaker 2: a fifty percent capacity, so there is room to take

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Speaker 2: violent youth offenders off the streets. But despite increased spending

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Speaker 2: on prisons, this just isn't what's happening.

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Speaker 1: So Mia, you reckon, we've actually I mean, do you

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Speaker 1: know what this probably actually isn't a huge surprise for

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Speaker 1: a lot of people listening because we talk on this

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Speaker 1: show all the time about you know, about crime, and

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Speaker 1: things have quietened down a little bit at the moment,

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Speaker 1: but you know, particularly youths involved in what many would

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Speaker 1: deem as quite violent crime. But so what you're saying, it's,

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Speaker 1: you know, despite the reporting of that, we actually well

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Speaker 1: we're not seeing as many people or as many youths

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Speaker 1: behind bars, is what we potentially could or should be well.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And if you look at the statistics

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Speaker 2: from ten years ago for youth offenders in the Northern Territory,

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Speaker 2: violent crime was making up thirty percent and now they're

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Speaker 2: making up almost fifty percent. So use for escalating in

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Speaker 2: their behavior and what that shows is they just do

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Speaker 2: not fear the consequences of the criminal justice system. The

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Speaker 2: criminal justice system needs reform because it needs to crack

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Speaker 2: down on violent crime and needs to send a message

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Speaker 2: that if you do commit a violent crime and you

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Speaker 2: put the community at risk, you will be locked away. However,

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Speaker 2: if you engaged in lower level offendings such as non

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Speaker 2: violent crimes, there will also be swift and certain punishments

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Speaker 2: for both type of offenders as well, and that should

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Speaker 2: come in the form of a youth rehabilitation ranch.

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Speaker 1: And so how do we compare to other states when

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Speaker 1: you look at those things that you've just spoken about.

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Speaker 2: So, the violent crime epidemic across youth defended is a

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Speaker 2: real problem across the country, but it's concentrated in the

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory and the concern here is that youths are

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Speaker 2: just becoming more brazen. Now, if there was an option

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Speaker 2: for judges during sentencing to pick up on kids at

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Speaker 2: the first sign that they show anti social behavior and

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Speaker 2: implement thorough reform to make sure that they aren't let

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Speaker 2: out go into the community and escalating their behavior. You

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Speaker 2: could actually stop violent crime from happening in the first place,

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Speaker 2: and you could turn these youths lives around.

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Speaker 1: And so do you see more of that in other states?

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Speaker 1: Mea like, are there sort of more options I suppose

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Speaker 1: when it comes to sentencing in the early stages.

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Speaker 2: So at the moment, Queensland is looking at implementing a

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Speaker 2: similar program. But what our research is focused on in

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Speaker 2: California and the United States because they've seen real success

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Speaker 2: with this. So they've been operating a youth ranch in

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Speaker 2: California for over twenty years now. And basically what happens

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Speaker 2: is when a non violent offender is brought before a judge.

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Speaker 2: If the non violent offender meets certain criteria, they'll be

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Speaker 2: sent to this ranch where they receive a high school

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Speaker 2: education and they're taught employable skills such as trades and farming.

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Speaker 2: And basically what happens is we've seen the reoffending rate

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Speaker 2: has dropped there from about forty to fifteen percent because

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Speaker 2: those kids are eventually released and they go out into

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Speaker 2: the community. They're able to get a job, they have

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Speaker 2: financial independence, and they can contribute positive positively, and that

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Speaker 2: stops them from escalating in violence.

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Speaker 1: That's really interesting because it's more like, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: more of a practical approach. I would imagine being on

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Speaker 1: a ranch, you know, doing all of those things and

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Speaker 1: kind of learning how to operate properly and well in

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Speaker 1: a community.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, and for these kids, what we've got to think

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Speaker 2: about is if there is signs of anti social behavior,

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Speaker 2: there is something that's going wrong in this child's life.

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Speaker 2: So there's needs to be thorough intervention. We need to

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Speaker 2: remove them from those environments, give them skills, give them

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Speaker 2: some independence, and in that way you can stop them

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Speaker 2: from escalating as we're seeing. And that's what's happening now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, now what else? So what else did the research find?

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Speaker 2: So the research also found that these youth ranches operate

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Speaker 2: at a quarter of a cost of the local detention center.

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Speaker 2: So right now we're seeing spending is just skyrocketing on

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Speaker 2: detention centers in the Northern Territory. So in twenty fifteen,

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Speaker 2: Since twenty fifteen, spending has increased by about forty two

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Speaker 2: million dollars, and despite that, crime violent crime is skyrocketing,

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Speaker 2: so it's not working. So if we implemented a solution

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Speaker 2: like this, we could actually save money for taxpayers and

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Speaker 2: on top of that, we could make the community safer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, no, it's always a really kind of interesting

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Speaker 1: discussion I think whenever we speak about this on air,

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Speaker 1: because I think most people would agree, Like, in those

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Speaker 1: early stages, if you can, you know, if you can

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Speaker 1: help to stop youth offenders before things escalate to violent crime,

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Speaker 1: that is obviously an ideal scenario. But then when people

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Speaker 1: are committing violent crimes, the expectation from the community is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, is that they're held to that they're held

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Speaker 1: to account for that.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. If a violent crime has been committed,

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Speaker 2: there needs to be a message that you will be

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Speaker 2: locked away and you will be isolated until you receive

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Speaker 2: proper services to make sure that when you're released you

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Speaker 2: don't go on to reoffend. There has to be an

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Speaker 2: absolute zero tolerance policy for violent crime.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, ipa research fellow, Miaschild, I really appreciate your

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Speaker 1: having a chat with this this morning. Thanks so much

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Speaker 1: for your time

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having the Katie, thank you