WEBVTT - The science of being cool

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<v Speaker 1>Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 3>Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Friday,

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<v Speaker 3>the fourth of July. I'm Sam Kazlowski.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Billy fit Simon's and I'm definitely not cool enough

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<v Speaker 2>to be doing this podcast.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey, come on, we haven't even gotten into it yet,

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<v Speaker 3>but yes, as I find out, that's exactly what's happening, Billy.

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<v Speaker 3>What's cooler than being cool? No, it's not ice cold?

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<v Speaker 3>Is it telling bad Joe? Something like that? But we

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<v Speaker 3>do know how to answer that question a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>better now than we did a couple of months ago,

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<v Speaker 3>thanks to some fascinating new research that's basically cracked the

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<v Speaker 3>code on what makes someone cool. So today we're going

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<v Speaker 3>to take you through what scientists learned after examining almost

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<v Speaker 3>six thousand people across thirteen countries as they endeavored to

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<v Speaker 3>figure out the difference between being cool and being good

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<v Speaker 3>and then not the same thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Sam, I think we should say from the outset that

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<v Speaker 2>this isn't the typical kind of TDA explainer. But it

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<v Speaker 2>is a Friday, and it has been two weeks or

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<v Speaker 2>even more of a pretty heavy news cycle. And so

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<v Speaker 2>we thought it's a perfect time to do something a

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<v Speaker 2>little bit different.

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<v Speaker 3>And in terms of you know, the thoughts that we

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<v Speaker 3>always go through is who can explain this the best

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<v Speaker 3>because they know the most about the topic. So sensibly

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<v Speaker 3>was that it should be me explaining the cool factor.

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<v Speaker 2>And I hope that arrogance is right up there with

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<v Speaker 2>what makes someone cool not too far away. Okay, So

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<v Speaker 2>before we get into what this study found, do you

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<v Speaker 2>want to walk us through how they actually the scientists

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<v Speaker 2>who did this, How did they actually go about determining

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<v Speaker 2>what makes someone cool or not? Because it's such an

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<v Speaker 2>intangible or subjective thing to assess.

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<v Speaker 3>You would think, so they've managed to really boil it down.

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<v Speaker 3>So their researchers from Chile and the US, and they

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<v Speaker 3>surveyed almost six thousand people across thirteen countries, including Australia.

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<v Speaker 3>As they didn't ask people to rate celebrities or influences,

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<v Speaker 3>that was my first thought was who are the coolest

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<v Speaker 3>people you know? Instead, they asked them to think of

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<v Speaker 3>someone they personally knew who was either cool, not cool,

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<v Speaker 3>good or not good. Then they rated that person on

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<v Speaker 3>fifteen different personality traits and values using psychology scales that

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<v Speaker 3>are already in use, and they've kind of brought all

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<v Speaker 3>of that data together to make a recipe for cool.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so interesting. Did they find that different cultures had

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<v Speaker 2>different ideas of what makes someone cool?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, even you and I have different ideas about

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<v Speaker 3>what makes someone cool. Because you said the word arrogant before,

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<v Speaker 3>I really don't quite understand why you said that. Look,

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<v Speaker 3>the research is exactly expected there to be this massive

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<v Speaker 3>cultural and global difference, and that's why they deliberately chose

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<v Speaker 3>countries from six different continents with really different cultural values.

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<v Speaker 3>So they picked some countries that they described as having individual,

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<v Speaker 3>dualistic cultures, like Australia and the US, versus what they

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<v Speaker 3>described as more collective cultures like China and South Korea.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you explain that more, because I would say that

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<v Speaker 2>Australia and the US I don't know if I would

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<v Speaker 2>describe them as individual cultures.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the basic rule that they've used here is whether

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<v Speaker 3>it's a highly capitalist society and everybody's kind of pursuing

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<v Speaker 3>success individually and trying to make as much money as

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<v Speaker 3>they can and get far ahead. I see.

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<v Speaker 1>So that's Australia and US exactly or you've got cultures

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<v Speaker 1>that have more kind of communist or socialist structures in government,

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<v Speaker 1>different ways that they structure their taxation systems or schools

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<v Speaker 1>or health, all that kind of stuff.

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<v Speaker 3>But the cool thing here, get it, I get it

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<v Speaker 3>is that the results across the world were almost identical.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so interesting. So kind of found that exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>makes someone cool in Australia is very similar to what

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<v Speaker 2>makes someone cool in China.

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<v Speaker 3>Exactly. There are the same character traits of cool people

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<v Speaker 3>all over the world, and they basically boiled it down

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<v Speaker 3>to six key traits.

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<v Speaker 2>So this is the key headline. These are the six

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<v Speaker 2>traits that if you carry these traits, then you're certified cool.

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<v Speaker 3>I want everyone to think of themselves in their mind

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<v Speaker 3>and be ticking things off as I read them out. Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>be more extroverted, hedonistic, powerful, adventurous, open minded, and autonomous.

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<v Speaker 2>That's quite the mix.

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<v Speaker 3>And the researchers said the pattern was so consistent that

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<v Speaker 3>they could not find cases in which certain regions showed

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<v Speaker 3>a systematically different pattern.

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's so interesting.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, let's go through each of those characteristics.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, so extroverted basically means that they're outgoing, they speak up,

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<v Speaker 3>they project energy and excitement. Hedonistic means they seek out

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<v Speaker 3>pleasure and enjoyment. They're the ones suggesting a spontaneous road

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<v Speaker 3>trip or trying a weird, new, different flavor of ice cream,

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<v Speaker 3>and it's kind of.

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<v Speaker 2>Like they seek out that pleasure over something like pain.

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<v Speaker 3>And over something that they're really familiar with as well.

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<v Speaker 3>And powerful means they've got influence and command attention, not

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<v Speaker 3>necessarily through a position of authority or some that they

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<v Speaker 3>are given, but through their presence and through them kind

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<v Speaker 3>of pushing into rooms they're not meant to be in.

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<v Speaker 3>Adventurous is about pursuing novelty and taking calculated risks. Open

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<v Speaker 3>means their receptive to new ideas and experiences. And autonomous,

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<v Speaker 3>which I think is a really big one, means they

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<v Speaker 3>do things their way without asking for permission, and they're

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<v Speaker 3>very self directed. So yeah, it's basically me.

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<v Speaker 2>Haha, they are basically some more than others. I would say,

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<v Speaker 2>you've got the autonomous one ticked off.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>When I think of you, I think of autonomous.

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<v Speaker 3>So everyone listening, what Billy means is that I tend

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<v Speaker 3>to just go a bit rogue.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's okay. We're working on it, aren't we. We are,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you so much, okay. And then earlier you said

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<v Speaker 2>that this research wasn't only looking at what makes someone cool,

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<v Speaker 2>It also looked at what makes a good person. And

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<v Speaker 2>they're different, and they are different. What did What were

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<v Speaker 2>the traits of someone who is good?

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<v Speaker 3>So a good person was rated as more conforming, traditional, secure,

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<v Speaker 3>a warm, agreeable, caring about everyone, equally, conscientious and calm. So,

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<v Speaker 3>if you think about it, cool people are the ones

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<v Speaker 3>who break the rules, who seek new experiences, and who

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<v Speaker 3>challenge authority. And good people are the ones who follow

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<v Speaker 3>social norms. They're caring for other people, and they maintain stability.

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<v Speaker 2>And does this differ at all between generations?

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<v Speaker 3>It does. So baby boomers defined cool as just pure rebellion.

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<v Speaker 3>Gen X was worried about working hard and playing hard,

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<v Speaker 3>and more of that adventurous streak coming through. Millennials prioritized

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<v Speaker 3>experiences and social consciousness, so standing up for what you

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<v Speaker 3>believe in. And gen Z has made authenticity a really

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<v Speaker 3>central aspect of coolness. So for gen Z, being genuine

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<v Speaker 3>about your struggles and values is actually cooler than just

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<v Speaker 3>being rebellious for the sake of being rebellious.

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<v Speaker 2>That's so interesting. I wonder how much of social media

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<v Speaker 2>and kind of how curated everyone's life became with the

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<v Speaker 2>rise of social media has then played into now kind

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<v Speaker 2>of the opposite of that authenticity.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I was really thinking about influences a lot during

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<v Speaker 3>that part of the research. The report didn't address influences directly,

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<v Speaker 3>but I'm cool, So here's my take on it. Aha,

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<v Speaker 3>social media has basically become a coolness competition in that way.

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<v Speaker 3>And if we think about those traits that the research

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<v Speaker 3>says make someone cool, so adventurous, autonomous, open to new experiences,

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<v Speaker 3>that's the content that does really well on social media.

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<v Speaker 3>And there's also, though, this tension because gen z really

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<v Speaker 3>values that authentic streak and they can spot when somebody's

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<v Speaker 3>trying too hard to be cool versus when somebody's really

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<v Speaker 3>embodying the traits.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I feel like you can. I know exactly what

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<v Speaker 2>you are talking about, but it's kind of hard to

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<v Speaker 2>talk about without sounding mean because it sounds mean saying

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<v Speaker 2>that you can think of someone who tries too hard

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<v Speaker 2>to be cool.

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<v Speaker 3>We feel like a bit kind of what the research

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<v Speaker 3>was outlining is that it needs to be a natural

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<v Speaker 3>streak rather than a forced effort.

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<v Speaker 2>Where did this whole concept of being cool even come from?

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<v Speaker 3>I was so interested in this part of the research.

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<v Speaker 3>They traced the historic origins of the word cool, and

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<v Speaker 3>they traced it back to African American jazz culture in

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<v Speaker 3>the forties, where musicians used it to describe someone who was,

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<v Speaker 3>in their words, emotionally restrained but also rebellious and creative.

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<v Speaker 3>And then they say by the sixties it had spread

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<v Speaker 3>to youth counterculture across the US, and according to the research,

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<v Speaker 3>even in countries with completely different alphabets and languages like

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<v Speaker 3>South Korea Turkey, people use the English word for cool

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<v Speaker 3>and pronounce it similarly to how you say it in English.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's maintained this kind of global meaning, but also

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<v Speaker 3>this global language aspect of it too. Super interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>So it started in jazz clubs and it's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>gone everywhere. This might be a silly questions, No silly questions, haha,

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<v Speaker 2>But why do you think that we care so much

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<v Speaker 2>about being cool? Is it just because we equate it

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<v Speaker 2>to be light?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, researchers say that it serves a really important social function,

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<v Speaker 3>and we look to cool people to be cultural innovators.

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<v Speaker 3>They're the ones who are pushing boundaries. They're creating new trends,

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<v Speaker 3>they're creating new art or music or film. They're driving

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<v Speaker 3>society forward. And in economies that really rely on creativity

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<v Speaker 3>and innovation, coolness has kind of become this status where

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<v Speaker 3>people who take risks and who drive change are really

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<v Speaker 3>rewarded for that.

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<v Speaker 2>So this idea that kind of innovators or risk takers

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<v Speaker 2>are more in the cool basket.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, which we shouldn't take for granted. I mean, that's

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<v Speaker 3>kind of a cultural decision we've made to.

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<v Speaker 2>Although that's not one of the six traits.

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<v Speaker 3>Well it's not directly, but the idea of being adventurous,

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<v Speaker 3>or being outside the norms, or being confident and outspoken,

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<v Speaker 3>all of those kind of lend themselves to creation of

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<v Speaker 3>new things.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, And I guess when I'm hearing this, one thing

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<v Speaker 2>that I'm wondering is I get what researchers are saying

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<v Speaker 2>is a cool person and what they are saying is

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<v Speaker 2>a good person. And I feel like they're kind of

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<v Speaker 2>saying that those are two different things. Yeah, but can

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<v Speaker 2>you be cool and good?

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the research says that you can be both. Some

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<v Speaker 3>people are both, but there's particular issues that arise when

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<v Speaker 3>the two conflict. And so what they mean by that

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<v Speaker 3>is there's this quote. It says to be seen as cool,

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<v Speaker 3>someone usually needs to be somewhat likable or admirable, which

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<v Speaker 3>makes them similar to good people. However, cool people often

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<v Speaker 3>have other traits that aren't necessarily considered good in a

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<v Speaker 3>moral sense. So if you think about like an antihero

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<v Speaker 3>on film or TV, they're not seen as cool because

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<v Speaker 3>they're conventionally good. There might be, you know, somebody who's

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<v Speaker 3>in prison for something terrible that they've done. We think

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<v Speaker 3>they are really cool character, but they've committed a crime,

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<v Speaker 3>and a good person wouldn't have committed a crime because

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<v Speaker 3>they're conforming traditional, followed the rules. So I actually thought

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<v Speaker 3>about tech bros, like the really big kind of tech

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<v Speaker 3>leaders of our world. They're considered cool by a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of these metrics. I don't know if they're considered good though. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Interesting. Okay, Sam, before we go, do you have anyone

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<v Speaker 2>specifically who you think really embodies these characteristics? Because I

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<v Speaker 2>have two in mind, can you.

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<v Speaker 3>Go first to give me a sector? Think, who do

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<v Speaker 3>you think is cool?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, of these traits, I think my answers are really basic, just.

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<v Speaker 3>A wanting okay, Rihanna interesting.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that she's got the autonomy, she has, the powerful,

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<v Speaker 2>the adventurous, the hedonistic, like kind of going with pleasure,

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<v Speaker 2>you know. She I feel like she hasn't put out

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<v Speaker 2>music in a while. She's kind of just choosing to

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<v Speaker 2>kind of take a step back, although she does have

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<v Speaker 2>the makeup company. But anyway, I think she's very cool

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<v Speaker 2>based on these traits and Harry styles so basic, but they're.

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<v Speaker 3>Great examples I think universally known cool people. Yeah, that's fantastic.

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<v Speaker 3>I can't really, I guess just things keep coming back

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<v Speaker 3>to me. Sad just keeps coming back to I think

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<v Speaker 3>I'm the coolest person I know. And you know what's

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<v Speaker 3>interesting about it, though, is that I'm constantly teasing the

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<v Speaker 3>office for not being cool. Who is every drop the handle?

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<v Speaker 3>Every day there's you know that's not cool to weare

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<v Speaker 3>and you're you have glasses and an asthma puffer.

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<v Speaker 2>Sam, You're you're making yourself the victim and that's not cool.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe hah Okay, I think we will end it there.

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<v Speaker 2>You are very cool, and I'll make sure that when

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<v Speaker 2>we get out of the studio that everyone tells you

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<v Speaker 2>how cool you are.

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<v Speaker 3>What's cool of me? Cool? You guys listening at home?

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<v Speaker 3>A beautiful weekend, everybody. We're going to be back in

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<v Speaker 3>the afternoon with some headlines. Until then, have a great date.

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<v Speaker 2>Wait before we go, you haven't said anything about whether

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<v Speaker 2>or not you think I'm cool.

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<v Speaker 3>I think you're good.

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<v Speaker 1>What My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud

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<v Speaker 1>Arunda Bungelung Kalkotin woman from gradigal Con. The Daily oz

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<v Speaker 1>acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands of

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<v Speaker 1>the Gadigal people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and

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<v Speaker 1>Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.