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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Cargoton woman from Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Oas. Happy Friday.

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Speaker 2: It is the second of June.

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Speaker 3: And i am cold, I'm Zara, and I'm warm and

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Speaker 3: I'm sam.

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Speaker 2: What As it currently stands, there are restrictions on men

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Speaker 2: who have sex with men being able to donate blood

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Speaker 2: in Australia, but the Therapeutic Goods Administration has approved a

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Speaker 2: process that could allow gay men to donate plasma, which

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Speaker 2: Lifeblood estimates would result in about fourteen thousand extra donations

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Speaker 2: every year.

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Speaker 4: It's a recognition that the Lifeblood Service are aware that

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Speaker 4: this discrimination has restricts to their supply and has really

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Speaker 4: felt hurtful to people like me.

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Speaker 2: In today's Deep Dive, our pod producer Nina is going

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Speaker 2: to look at why people have been historically excluded from

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Speaker 2: giving blood and what could be about to change. First Sam,

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Speaker 2: it was a very big day for the media yesterday.

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Speaker 3: A huge day in media. Yesterday's are prominent. Former Australian

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Speaker 3: soldier ben Robert Smith lost his defamation case against nine

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Speaker 3: newspapers in the Federal Court. We've been waiting a long

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Speaker 3: time for this judgment. The judge found many of the

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Speaker 3: claims made by The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald and

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Speaker 3: The Canberra Times in articles alleging severe misconduct by Robert

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Speaker 3: Smith in Afghanistan were quote substantially true.

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Speaker 2: Mining company BHP has been found to have underpaid almost

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Speaker 2: thirty thousand workers a total of four hundred and thirty

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Speaker 2: million dollars. This relates to an incorrect deduction for leave

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Speaker 2: days taken by staff that actually dates back to twenty ten.

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Speaker 2: BHP will continue to investigate the issue and provide a

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Speaker 2: further update. In August of this year. The company has

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Speaker 2: reported itself to the Fairwork Comberdsmen.

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Speaker 3: The Perth headquarters of Woodside Energy were evacuated yesterday after

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Speaker 3: a climate activist caused concerns of a fake gaslak. The

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Speaker 3: protesters said she deployed a non toxic stench gas at

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Speaker 3: the building to alert the company of what she described

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Speaker 3: as the climate and cultural emergency unfolding due to their operations.

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Speaker 3: Firefighters attended the scene and police escorted the protester from

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Speaker 3: the building.

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Speaker 2: And the good news researchers from Sydney have become the

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Speaker 2: first inner world to have grown tissue from every known

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Speaker 2: type of endometriosis. This is really important because it will

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Speaker 2: allow researchers to recommend specialized treatment plans by observing how

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Speaker 2: different tissue reacts to different medicines. Endometriosis is a chronic

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Speaker 2: disease that's believed to affect one in nine people with

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Speaker 2: a uterus.

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Speaker 5: Thank you, David, Thanks so much for joining us on

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Speaker 5: the pod this morning.

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Speaker 4: Thanks so much for having me.

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Speaker 5: Tell me about your experience with donating blood. Where does

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Speaker 5: it all begin for you?

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Speaker 4: Well, it begins a very long time ago. I've just

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Speaker 4: turned forty seven. So when I was a teenager, my

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Speaker 4: mum was giving blood quite regularly, and I thought it

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Speaker 4: was a good thing to do. I joined her as

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Speaker 4: a kid, and you got the treat that you get

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Speaker 4: after giving blood, and I was keen, and I think

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Speaker 4: you had to be fifteen or sixteen at the time.

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Speaker 4: So I started giving blood at that time, but as

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Speaker 4: I'm gay, once I started having sex, which was when

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Speaker 4: I was eighteen, I wasn't able to give blood anymore.

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Speaker 4: I'd given blood at least six or seven or eight times,

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Speaker 4: possibly more as a teenager, and you know, it was

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Speaker 4: a good thing to do. It's a generous, volunteering thing

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Speaker 4: to do for our community, and I was very happy

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Speaker 4: to do it. But obviously once I became ineligible, then

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Speaker 4: I wasn't gonna lie. I didn't give blood anymore, and

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Speaker 4: I haven't given blood ever since. I grew up in

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Speaker 4: a time when HIV and AIDS was real and very scary.

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Speaker 4: There was no prep. There was no sense that, you know,

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Speaker 4: you could live with HIV. You got HIV, you died.

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Speaker 4: I remember the Grim Reaper campaign and the fear that

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Speaker 4: there was around HIV. So I also remember, as a child,

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Speaker 4: you know, watching the news that there were people who

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Speaker 4: did get HIV and AIDS through the blood system, and

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Speaker 4: that's clearly a very scary thing for people who need blood.

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Speaker 5: David Imber is the deputy chair of the Victorian Pride Center,

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Speaker 5: and while he wants to be a blood donor, he

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Speaker 5: is ineligible. Although things could be about to change. The

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Speaker 5: Therapeutic Goods Administration, which regulates medical products in Australia, has

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Speaker 5: approved a process where men who have sex with men

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Speaker 5: would be able to donate plasma, and that includes people

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Speaker 5: taking PREP, which is an anti viral drug which prevents

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Speaker 5: and protects against HIV. Plasma can be used in eighteen

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Speaker 5: different ways to treat things like immune deficiencies and newborn babies,

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Speaker 5: bon marriage, transplants, and burns in Australia, those products are

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Speaker 5: manufactured by a company called CSL Bearing. To find out

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Speaker 5: more about what this all means and how it will work,

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Speaker 5: I spoke to doctor Joanne Pink, the Chief medical officer

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Speaker 5: at Lifeblood Australia. Joe, thank you so much for joining

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Speaker 5: us on the Daily OLS this morning.

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Speaker 6: My pleasure, Thanks very much.

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Speaker 5: So before we talk about the announcements that we heard

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Speaker 5: from the TGA, historically, what have the limitations been for

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Speaker 5: blood donations based on sexual orientation?

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Speaker 6: Livelood has many questions with regards to blood safety rules

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Speaker 6: and they're in place to protect the health of the

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Speaker 6: donor as well as to protect the health of the

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Speaker 6: patient he'll be receiving the blood transfusion. So the approach

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Speaker 6: that we've taken in the past is really a public

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Speaker 6: health approach where we look at local health data and

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Speaker 6: to see how common HIV is across the population and

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Speaker 6: whether there are particular groups of individuals who might have

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Speaker 6: a higher chance of carrying the infection. Based on that data,

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Speaker 6: we then implement deferrals. So for men who have sex

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Speaker 6: with men, we currently have a three month deferral.

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Speaker 5: Can you just explain what that mean?

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Speaker 6: Sure? So what that means is that if a man

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Speaker 6: has anal sex with another man, then we ask them

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Speaker 6: to wait for three months after that last episode of

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Speaker 6: anal sex. And the reason for that is that we

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Speaker 6: screen every blood donation for a range of infectious diseases,

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Speaker 6: including HIV, and Australia uses the very best tests in

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Speaker 6: the world, but even those very best tests are not

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Speaker 6: able to pick up very early infections and that's called

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Speaker 6: the window period. And that's the reason why we have

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Speaker 6: blood safety rules and that we ask people to postpone

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Speaker 6: or weight a period of time before they can donate.

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Speaker 6: And the reason of that is because during that period

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Speaker 6: the very early infections, which is called the window period,

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Speaker 6: our tests can't pick up the infection. So we have

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Speaker 6: to wait a period of time after a person gets

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Speaker 6: infected so that the level of viothoor or antibody response

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Speaker 6: builds up and that our tests can then pick it up.

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Speaker 5: And so tell me, with this announcement from the TGA,

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Speaker 5: what have they approved that wasn't allowed previously?

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Speaker 6: A strained Red Cross life Floods recently received approval from

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Speaker 6: the Therapeutic Goods Administration for what we're calling the Plasma Pathway,

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Speaker 6: and what that means is removing the sexual activity rules

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Speaker 6: for donors donating plasma. This is the first step. So

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Speaker 6: if agreed, my governments and seas are bearing the Plasma

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Speaker 6: Pathway will allow gay and bisexual men to donate plasma

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Speaker 6: without any weight period at all, including those taking prep.

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Speaker 5: How does that compare to announcements that have been made overseas,

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Speaker 5: because I know that we've seen some moves forward in this,

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Speaker 5: but I think that the TGA has gone further in

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Speaker 5: some respects overseas.

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Speaker 6: Other countries have looked at a process called individual Risk Assessment,

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Speaker 6: and with this process, donors are all asked the same questions.

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Speaker 6: Have you had a new sexual partner, have you had

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Speaker 6: multiple sexual partners? Have you engaged in anal sex, are

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Speaker 6: you taking PREP and there are still deferrals or people

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Speaker 6: are still asked to postpone their donation if, for example,

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Speaker 6: they've had new or multiple sexual partners and have had

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Speaker 6: anal sex or if they're taking PREP. So the difference

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Speaker 6: with the plasma pathway is that because we're relying on

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Speaker 6: an additional safety steps. So for the manufacturing process for

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Speaker 6: plasma donations, it contains several effective what's called pathogen reduction

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Speaker 6: steps to ensure the safety of plasma medicines, and these

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Speaker 6: include things such as filters to remove oviruses and other

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Speaker 6: methods to inactivate or kill viruses. So the combination of

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Speaker 6: our very sensitive testing, including the fact that plasma for

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Speaker 6: medicines has pathogen reduction, means that we can remove those

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Speaker 6: sexual activity deferral rules, which makes it much more inclusive

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Speaker 6: near including you know, as I said, people taking preps.

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Speaker 6: So that's why we're really excited about the plasma pathway.

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Speaker 5: And so let's talk about that pathway a little bit.

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Speaker 5: My first question is is that why the TGA has

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Speaker 5: made the step for plasma as opposed to whole blood.

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Speaker 5: Is it because there's more of those screening opportunities.

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Speaker 6: It's because it's safer because pathogen reduction is available for plasma,

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Speaker 6: but today it's not available for red cells. So it's

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Speaker 6: an additional safety step which is possible for plasma medicines

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Speaker 6: but not possible for blood donation.

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Speaker 5: And so when we're talking about that pathway, what do

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Speaker 5: you see as the next steps forward?

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Speaker 6: If agreed by government and cease or Bearing, which is

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Speaker 6: the company that manu factures of plasma medicine, then we'll

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Speaker 6: be able to implement the pathway, which means that game

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Speaker 6: bisexual men will be able to donate plasma without any

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Speaker 6: weight period at all, including those using PREP. In the future,

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Speaker 6: we're hoping that we'll be able to remove all of

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Speaker 6: the questions for people donating plasma, all of the high

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Speaker 6: ressexual activity questions, that is for people donating plasma, which

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Speaker 6: of course will also include improved donor experience.

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Speaker 5: We have had that the government is saying that they're

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Speaker 5: enthusiastic about this pathway, that they're keen for this to happen.

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Speaker 5: Do you feel like we are likely to move forward?

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Speaker 5: Do you see getting similar support from CSL.

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Speaker 6: I can't speak on behalf of CSL or the other

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Speaker 6: state and territory governments. But we're very pleased that this

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Speaker 6: is the first step moving forward.

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Speaker 5: Jerry, thank you so much for your time today.

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Speaker 6: I really appreciate it, my pleasure in it. Thanks very much.

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Speaker 5: At this point, the federal government has that it supports

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Speaker 5: from moving the actual activity restrictions plasma donations, and so

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Speaker 5: now CSL Bearing, the company that processes plasma into medication,

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Speaker 5: has to give their stamp of approval. CSL Bearing told

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Speaker 5: TDA that they're waiting on further information from the Therapeutic

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Speaker 5: Goods Administration and that they'll continue to work to ensure

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Speaker 5: the supply of safe and secure blood products in Australia.

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Speaker 4: I just feel really pleased and very very touched in

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Speaker 4: a way because the blood system's got a lot to

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Speaker 4: deal with, and you know, the LGBTI community, like we

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Speaker 4: are a minority in the community. I'm aware that the

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Speaker 4: majority of the community heterosexual people. So I'm really pleased

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Speaker 4: that this has gone through. It's a recognition that the

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Speaker 4: Lifeblood Service are aware that this discrimination has restricted their

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Speaker 4: supply and has really felt hurtful to people like me

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Speaker 4: who you know, actually did give blood and would be

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Speaker 4: happy to give plasma under this pathway. I appreciate that

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Speaker 4: you can't have a blood system that's got risks, and

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Speaker 4: I think that the scientists and the TCA that have

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Speaker 4: looked at this have obviously seen that this can be

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Speaker 4: safely managed, and I think that is a win win.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us on the Daily OS. If

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Speaker 2: you learned something from today's episode, don't forget to hit

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Speaker 2: subscribe so there's a TDA episode waiting for you every morning.

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Speaker 2: We'll be back again on Monday. Have a fabulous weekend.