WEBVTT - 2018 A Year When Justice Needs You

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<v Speaker 1>Just before nine o'clock last night, the jury returned guilty

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<v Speaker 1>verdicts against all three defendants. It was absolutely shambles, to

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<v Speaker 1>tell you the truth, just absolutely really. Honoans blood on

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<v Speaker 1>his clothing the day after the alleged a top.

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<v Speaker 2>Selle mud bank and it fits.

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<v Speaker 1>Through a river.

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<v Speaker 3>Basically, I think most of the people are used to

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<v Speaker 3>me are good people.

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<v Speaker 2>I think a really important question we need to ask

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<v Speaker 2>is how many Indigenous prisoners in Australia are innocent.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Curtain, a podcast where we pull back the

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<v Speaker 1>blinds to shine a light on the darkest parts of

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<v Speaker 1>our justice system and ask who are the victims. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Amy Maguire and.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Martin Hodgson, a senior advocate for the Foreign Prisoner

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<v Speaker 2>Support Service. And a warning this series contains the names

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<v Speaker 2>of deceased peoples and has distressing content that might upset

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<v Speaker 2>some listeners.

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to kurtin the podcast for yet another year,

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<v Speaker 1>and I'd like to start by thanking you our listeners

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<v Speaker 1>for chuning in yet again and also hope that you

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<v Speaker 1>had a good holiday period with your family and friends.

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<v Speaker 1>It was a bittersweet one for us because Curtain, Kevin

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<v Speaker 1>Henry has spent twenty six Christmases and twenty six New

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<v Speaker 1>Years behind bars for a crime he didn't do. And

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<v Speaker 1>so even as we celebrated with our friends and family,

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<v Speaker 1>I couldn't help thinking about the facts that Kevin is

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<v Speaker 1>still locked up, and that we've been investigating this case

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<v Speaker 1>for two years and you've been listening for a year

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<v Speaker 1>and a half, and yet he's still there, still serving

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<v Speaker 1>time for a crime that we've shown he did not do.

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<v Speaker 3>To bring you up to date with where we finished

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<v Speaker 3>the year off, you'll remember that we had an alibi

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<v Speaker 3>for Kevin Henry that we were able to show all

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<v Speaker 3>the forensic evidence shows Kevin Henry is innocent, that there's

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<v Speaker 3>witness statements, including eyewitnesses, those who spoke of the people

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<v Speaker 3>who really committed the crime, and no link whatsoever to

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<v Speaker 3>Kevin Henry in the murder of Linda. But despite all

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<v Speaker 3>the evidence that exists, and you can go back through

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<v Speaker 3>previous episodes and pick those out you want to refresh

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<v Speaker 3>your memory on, Kevin remains behind bars. And the most

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<v Speaker 3>frustrating part is that Kevin is quite clearly innocent, and

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<v Speaker 3>yet despite the changes we've talked about in Queensland with

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<v Speaker 3>the parole board being changed and being made more professional

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<v Speaker 3>because the Queensland government themselves could see just how wrong

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<v Speaker 3>things were going. This has not helped Kevin, and it

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<v Speaker 3>hasn't helped Aboriginal prisoners. What we do know since things

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<v Speaker 3>have changed last June is that people are getting out

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<v Speaker 3>and people are getting the chance to move from the

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<v Speaker 3>prison environment into the community environment. But that hasn't occurred

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<v Speaker 3>for Kevin. And it really is frustrating given that all

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<v Speaker 3>this information that we've exposed is on the public record,

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<v Speaker 3>But that just means twenty eighteen is an even more

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<v Speaker 3>important year for us. Kevin cannot spend another Christmas behind bars.

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<v Speaker 3>An innocent man shouldn't spend another day behind bars. But

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<v Speaker 3>we're going to do everything in our power this year

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<v Speaker 3>to make sure that Kevin has spent his last Christmas

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<v Speaker 3>in New Years in Capricornia Prison near Rockhampton.

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<v Speaker 1>But we can't do that without help. Late last year,

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<v Speaker 1>we launched a Patreon page aimed at crowdfunding some resources

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<v Speaker 1>in order to help Kevin Henry's legal fight. If you

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<v Speaker 1>believe in Kevin's innocence, and if you've listened to this

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<v Speaker 1>podcast over the past year and a half and you're

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<v Speaker 1>concerned about what is happening in this country to Aboriginal

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<v Speaker 1>people as a whole. Please consider going onto that page

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<v Speaker 1>page and just supporting us in any way you can.

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<v Speaker 1>Even the smallest bit will help and will add up

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<v Speaker 1>to help us actually work towards that outcome to get

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<v Speaker 1>Kevin out and to pursue justice for him and Flinda.

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<v Speaker 1>And we'll have details of that Patreon page on our

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<v Speaker 1>Facebook page and also on our website www. Dot kirtanthepodcast

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<v Speaker 1>dot com. But Martin, I mean, you've worked on cases

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<v Speaker 1>all around the world, and you do it pretty much

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<v Speaker 1>on the smell of an oily rag. But what is

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<v Speaker 1>needed in order to fund cases like Kevin's and where

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<v Speaker 1>would this money actually go towards.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's a really good question, and I think, as

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<v Speaker 3>you said, the work I do, we run cases with

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<v Speaker 3>virtually no money whatsoever. But where people will know that

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<v Speaker 3>innocent people, men and women are being released and being

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<v Speaker 3>exonerated is in the United States, primarily for two reasons,

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<v Speaker 3>because of the work of the Innocence Project and excellent

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<v Speaker 3>law groups right around the country, and also because of

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<v Speaker 3>the fighting fund that organizations like the NAACP have. They

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<v Speaker 3>literally have millions of dollars at their disposal, all donated

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<v Speaker 3>by men and women in the public, like those who

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<v Speaker 3>listen to Curtin. And what that allows those organizations to

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<v Speaker 3>do is act very quickly when new leads come up

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<v Speaker 3>and new evidence is found as to a person's innocence.

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<v Speaker 3>For us, that's really difficult because we don't have the funds,

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<v Speaker 3>and so where that money goes to is things like

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<v Speaker 3>hiring experts, so whether it be psychiatrists for witnesses, forensic

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<v Speaker 3>experts to analyze new material evidence or re examine old evidence,

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<v Speaker 3>traveling to interview witnesses and take affidavits. We of course

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<v Speaker 3>have a large amount of court processes we need to

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<v Speaker 3>go through. So in the last year we've, of course,

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<v Speaker 3>as you would have heard, litigated some of the refusals

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<v Speaker 3>and issues Kevin has faced along this journey, and we've

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<v Speaker 3>been successful in that. But everything we do costs money,

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<v Speaker 3>and there is no fighting fund like so many groups

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<v Speaker 3>have access in the United States. And I'm sure people

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<v Speaker 3>have seen on Facebook and social media tweets and posts

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<v Speaker 3>and YouTube videos about exoneries walking free and seeing those

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<v Speaker 3>faces of men and women walk out of jail after

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<v Speaker 3>spending decades in prison. For crimes they didn't commit. People

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<v Speaker 3>just like Kevin Henry and other Aboriginal people in Australia

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<v Speaker 3>and jails. But you don't get to that moment without

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<v Speaker 3>fighting the fight to free these people, and you cannot

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<v Speaker 3>do it without the funds. And so as hard as

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<v Speaker 3>we work, we need that money and that support that

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<v Speaker 3>you the public can provide to make this justice possible.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's very interesting you mentioned the Innocence Project, Martin,

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<v Speaker 1>because over the past few months I've been following their

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<v Speaker 1>social media and their cases very closely, and they actually

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<v Speaker 1>just this week had their two hundredth eggonery and that

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<v Speaker 1>was largely due to you all of the support that

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<v Speaker 1>they have received, and that actually was a white woman.

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<v Speaker 1>They're two hundredth person exonerated with the help of Innocence Project.

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<v Speaker 1>But only just recently there was another man who was

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<v Speaker 1>very similar to Kevin's case. He was only twenty two

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<v Speaker 1>when he was wrongfully convicted, who just had hurt his

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<v Speaker 1>murder conviction overturned as well. So over in America that

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<v Speaker 1>you know, this is actually a huge movement. There's actually

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of community support and awareness that this is

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<v Speaker 1>a problem and a deep seat of law in our

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<v Speaker 1>justice system. And I think we have to get to

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<v Speaker 1>a stage in Australia where you know, it's not just

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<v Speaker 1>little pockets of people actually supporting these sort of cases

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<v Speaker 1>and these people who've been so sorely let down by

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<v Speaker 1>the justice system. It's a whole community awareness of what's

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<v Speaker 1>happening in a whole community support to try and reverse

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<v Speaker 1>the enormous damage that this system has caused, predominantly to

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<v Speaker 1>Aboriginal people.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I think that's exactly right, And everything you spoke

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<v Speaker 3>about is really what I think we want to replicate

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<v Speaker 3>in Australia, but driven by the Aboriginal community for the

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<v Speaker 3>Aboriginal community. And so we see in America there's been

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<v Speaker 3>a number of cases over the Christmas period where small

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<v Speaker 3>legal organizations have helped not only Zoner eight people, but

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<v Speaker 3>there was a number of cases where African American men

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<v Speaker 3>and women over the Christmas period were found not guilty

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<v Speaker 3>in cases where the police had committed serious corruption. And

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<v Speaker 3>what enabled the lawyers to do such good work was

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<v Speaker 3>access to those fighting funds that communities right across the

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<v Speaker 3>United States, whether they're donating to big groups like the

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<v Speaker 3>NAACP or the Innocence Project or the small organizations that

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<v Speaker 3>exist all over America. It allows lawyers to hit the

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<v Speaker 3>ground running straight away. And what we don't want to

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<v Speaker 3>see is another Derek Bromley, another Kevin Henry, Aboriginal people

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<v Speaker 3>spending decades in prison for crimes they didn't do. We

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<v Speaker 3>hear continuously from the community right around Australia because they

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<v Speaker 3>listened to Curtin and they want to raise these issues.

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<v Speaker 3>And what we want to be able to do is

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<v Speaker 3>not just help those in prison, but help those who

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<v Speaker 3>are facing similar fights in their very early stages. We

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<v Speaker 3>want to be able to do what the NAACP did

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<v Speaker 3>in the worst times, which is rolling to town with lawyers, barristers,

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<v Speaker 3>with social workers, with media, with support people, and ensure

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<v Speaker 3>that when things go wrong, when someone is falsely accused,

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<v Speaker 3>when something terrible happens, like the murder and killing of

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<v Speaker 3>young Elijah or misdue in Western Australia, that we can

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<v Speaker 3>be there to get justice and support the families. Otherwise,

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<v Speaker 3>Ooriginal people continue to suffer in silence, and quite frankly,

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<v Speaker 3>two hundred plus years later, it's no longer good enough.

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<v Speaker 3>It's very easy to make small donations, to make small

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<v Speaker 3>contributions and we can put an end to this. We

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<v Speaker 3>see it happening in America, we see it happening right

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<v Speaker 3>around the world. Now we have to do in Australia

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<v Speaker 3>in twenty eighteen has to be the year.

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<v Speaker 1>And Martin, you just mentioned some of the outrages that

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<v Speaker 1>we've heard of recently and which have finally created some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of media attention around these sort of issues. But

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<v Speaker 1>we're constantly being approached as well by other Aboriginal families

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<v Speaker 1>around the country who have cases similar to Kevin, or

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<v Speaker 1>similar to other cases that have created that have drawn

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<v Speaker 1>widespread attention, and yet there doesn't seem to be a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of the ground swell or support available to them.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think as well, what we've shown in this

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<v Speaker 1>podcast is that the issues that have affected Kevin and

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<v Speaker 1>have resulted in this massive injustice or replicated all across

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<v Speaker 1>the country. And that's what this podcast is for as well.

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<v Speaker 1>We want to keep doing this and with your support,

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<v Speaker 1>with the listeners support and wider Australia, hopefully in the

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<v Speaker 1>future their support, we hope to continue this journey and

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<v Speaker 1>to continue helping a lot of Aberaginal family who you

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<v Speaker 1>may not have heard of and whose cases are less

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<v Speaker 1>wider known and who are just crying out for some

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<v Speaker 1>sort of justice and for really just to be heard

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<v Speaker 1>as well.

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<v Speaker 3>And one thing I just want to add lastly on

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<v Speaker 3>that issue is one of the saddest things making curtain

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<v Speaker 3>and working on Kevin's case for me has been hearing

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<v Speaker 3>from Aboriginal families whose loved ones. And we've also heard

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<v Speaker 3>from former prisoners who have been in the exact same

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<v Speaker 3>position as Kevin and have served their full sentence, having

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<v Speaker 3>never committed the crime, but no one ever came to

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<v Speaker 3>help them. And one of the reasons they support Kevin

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<v Speaker 3>so strongly is because they know exactly what it feels like,

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<v Speaker 3>they know the suffering. So this is why we want

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<v Speaker 3>to work so hard. We shouldn't have to hear from

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<v Speaker 3>people whose lives have been totally ruined by the justice system.

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<v Speaker 3>It's supposed to deliver justice. It's not supposed to be

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<v Speaker 3>ruining lives. And I think we know so many families

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<v Speaker 3>who we've come to hear from, Individuals we've come to

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<v Speaker 3>hear from and speak to who know exactly what Kevin's

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<v Speaker 3>gone through and he's going through because they've experienced it too,

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<v Speaker 3>and so we want to help them and we want

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<v Speaker 3>to make sure that those people don't exist in the future,

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<v Speaker 3>and there's only one way we can do that, and

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<v Speaker 3>that's with your support.

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<v Speaker 1>So mardin. With that in mind, what do you expect

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be looking at this year or what are the

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<v Speaker 1>first plans of attack in relation to Kevin's case more specifically, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I think.

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<v Speaker 3>With Kevin's case, the idea is that we continue to

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<v Speaker 3>push down the pardon process and that we continue to

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<v Speaker 3>put the evidence in front of the governor and the

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<v Speaker 3>hope is that soon will be able to start making headway.

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<v Speaker 3>But again, we need people to be spreading the word

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<v Speaker 3>because for a pardon to take place, you need not

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<v Speaker 3>only the evidence, you need the public support. We're talking

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<v Speaker 3>about something that's never been achieved before, and we can't

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<v Speaker 3>just do that to people fighting for one man. We

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<v Speaker 3>need the entire community to rally around. And what we've

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<v Speaker 3>seen is the Rockhampton community has been incredible and that

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<v Speaker 3>people in Wuabinda not just signing petitions but coming forward

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<v Speaker 3>and telling their stories, telling us what they know, telling

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<v Speaker 3>us the history, and that takes a lot of courage

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<v Speaker 3>to do. So going forward, what we really need to

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<v Speaker 3>see is people in high profile places making a stand

0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:03.440
<v Speaker 3>on this issue. So if you're listening to this and

0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:06.320
<v Speaker 3>you know someone who works on radio or in the media,

0:15:07.760 --> 0:15:11.880
<v Speaker 3>get them informed, get them listening to Curtin. That's something

0:15:11.960 --> 0:15:15.400
<v Speaker 3>you can actively do. Try and push for this stuff

0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.600
<v Speaker 3>to get a bigger voice. The other thing we're going

0:15:19.640 --> 0:15:22.320
<v Speaker 3>to be doing is we have more evidence that we

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.680
<v Speaker 3>can expose to the public and reveal to the public.

0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.600
<v Speaker 3>We're also working to try and get Kevin paroled in

0:15:30.680 --> 0:15:34.600
<v Speaker 3>the meantime, because one of the best ways we can

0:15:35.080 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 3>prove Kevin's innocence is to have Kevin on the outside

0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.960
<v Speaker 3>and so that he can tell his story and people

0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:45.840
<v Speaker 3>can see him telling his story, and I think that's

0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.440
<v Speaker 3>the best way for people to understand exactly what went

0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 3>wrong in his case. And one thing that's really important

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:57.800
<v Speaker 3>to us in twenty eighteen is for you to know

0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:03.240
<v Speaker 3>a little bit more about Linda and to understand what

0:16:03.480 --> 0:16:06.880
<v Speaker 3>happens when a family loses someone in this way and

0:16:07.160 --> 0:16:11.000
<v Speaker 3>justice isn't done. And sadly, one thing we do know

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:16.080
<v Speaker 3>is that a great, many number of Indigenous people, particularly

0:16:16.120 --> 0:16:20.840
<v Speaker 3>Indigenous women and children, are murdered, and not only is

0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:25.160
<v Speaker 3>there no conviction or the wrong person is imprisoned. The

0:16:25.240 --> 0:16:29.920
<v Speaker 3>family never finds out exactly what happened, and they live

0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.720
<v Speaker 3>forever with that trauma and experience of losing a mother,

0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:39.520
<v Speaker 3>a daughter, a son and not knowing where they even

0:16:39.600 --> 0:16:42.720
<v Speaker 3>might be. All they get told by the police is

0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.960
<v Speaker 3>they're dead, and often the excuse is that they've gone

0:16:46.000 --> 0:16:50.000
<v Speaker 3>walk about. And we know in cases that have since

0:16:50.040 --> 0:16:54.720
<v Speaker 3>been resolved and since been examined by coroners that that

0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:58.320
<v Speaker 3>excuse by the police is a blatant lie. In a

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:02.480
<v Speaker 3>number of murder cases, police tried to maintain that for months,

0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:07.400
<v Speaker 3>sometimes years, and then a body was found. So these

0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:11.160
<v Speaker 3>are things we're going to be exposing coming in twenty eighteen.

0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:15.480
<v Speaker 3>There's many more cases we want to focus on, but

0:17:15.600 --> 0:17:18.959
<v Speaker 3>again we need your help to do it, and we

0:17:19.040 --> 0:17:23.040
<v Speaker 3>need more people listening and more people spreading the word.

0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.639
<v Speaker 1>And that's one of the reasons why Linda's family have

0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:30.600
<v Speaker 1>told us that they always had concerns and reservations and

0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:35.399
<v Speaker 1>believe now believe that Kevin Henry is innocent because in

0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:39.320
<v Speaker 1>South Australia there have been numerous cases of abrushnal women who,

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:43.159
<v Speaker 1>as Martin has said, gone missing or being murdered, and

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:45.800
<v Speaker 1>there has been no conviction. One of the most high

0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:49.320
<v Speaker 1>profile was the case of Karen Williams in nineteen ninety

0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:53.000
<v Speaker 1>who was never found and she disappeared in kuber Peed

0:17:53.640 --> 0:17:58.119
<v Speaker 1>in the late nineties, actually the year before Linda died.

0:17:58.880 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 1>So you start to realize that in South Australia where

0:18:01.600 --> 0:18:04.520
<v Speaker 1>Linda was from, and in rock Hampden where she tragically

0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:09.000
<v Speaker 1>lost her life, you know, these issues are very similar

0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:10.440
<v Speaker 1>all across this country.

0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.480
<v Speaker 3>So that's going to be our twenty eighteen freeing Kevin Henry,

0:18:17.400 --> 0:18:21.240
<v Speaker 3>finally getting justice and answers for Linda and her family,

0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.480
<v Speaker 3>exposing the endless number of cases of Aboriginal men and

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:29.040
<v Speaker 3>women who are in prison in Australia who are innocent,

0:18:30.520 --> 0:18:34.199
<v Speaker 3>Highlighting the number of Aboriginal women and young children in

0:18:34.200 --> 0:18:38.960
<v Speaker 3>particular who have gone missing and been killed, who have

0:18:39.119 --> 0:18:43.040
<v Speaker 3>never had justice, whose families have never had answers, And

0:18:43.080 --> 0:18:47.200
<v Speaker 3>we can only do this with your support. In twenty eighteen,

0:18:47.280 --> 0:18:50.399
<v Speaker 3>we want you to become more involved, to join this

0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:54.120
<v Speaker 3>journey with us. We have to make this the year

0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.800
<v Speaker 3>we deliver justice for all Aboriginal people who are suffering

0:18:57.880 --> 0:19:01.840
<v Speaker 3>in this way and who have experienced this trauma. So

0:19:02.000 --> 0:19:09.280
<v Speaker 3>please log on to curtinthepodcast dot com. Like the Facebook

0:19:09.320 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 3>page Curtain the Podcast, follow us on Twitter, Curtain the Podcast,

0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:20.800
<v Speaker 3>and spread the word. And finally, please support with what

0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 3>you can at our Patreon website, which will have links

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:29.560
<v Speaker 3>to on all our social media and our website. Any

0:19:29.560 --> 0:19:34.119
<v Speaker 3>small amount makes a massive difference, and encouraging others to

0:19:34.240 --> 0:19:37.200
<v Speaker 3>support us helps us do all those things we want

0:19:37.200 --> 0:19:42.760
<v Speaker 3>to focus on in twenty eighteen, freeing Kevin, justice for Linda,

0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:48.760
<v Speaker 3>justice for all Aboriginal people in the justice system, and

0:19:48.840 --> 0:19:53.160
<v Speaker 3>bringing closure and truth to those Aboriginal women and children

0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:57.000
<v Speaker 3>who have been missing and murdered and never had any

0:19:57.080 --> 0:20:02.159
<v Speaker 3>answers for them and their family relies heavily on you

0:20:03.000 --> 0:20:08.359
<v Speaker 3>and your contribution in twenty eighteen. That was Curtain the

0:20:08.400 --> 0:20:09.040
<v Speaker 3>Podcast